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resorcinol
12-10-2008, 06:49 PM
as an opioid for use outside of anesthesia in hospitals.

It will be delivered much like fentanyl is for the long acting version of the medication.

The brand name is Transdur-Sufentanil, created by Durect Pharmaceuticals and licensed to Endo Pharmaceuticals for distribution in the United States.

As far as I know, the Transdur-Sufentanil patch is currently in Phase II clinical trials -- if it's further along that that, somebody let me know.

This means in a few years, there will be another long acting opioid on the roster for relief of chronic pain in CP patients, both cancer and non-cancer related.

The patch itself is a little bit different than Duragesic. The biggest difference is the interval for changing the patch to a new one. Transdur-Sufentanil is a 7 day patch, meaning the typical prescription will be for four patches a month. Like with Duragesic, it's likely that some people will experience a poop out in half the time than the patch is rated for, so some people may get eight patches per month. I've heard that transdermal patches not lasting as long as they should occurs more often in males than females, although this doesn't mean that there aren't females who need more frequent patch changes too. This even applies to the nicotine patch. Some people need to change their nicotine patches every twelve hours (once in the morning, once before bed) instead of once a day.

Physically, the patch is different than brand name Duragesic too. The BRAND name Transdur-Sufentanil patch is a matrix patch, where the drug is dispersed in the lower 3/4 or so of the adhesive layer of the patch evenly (assuming quality control is kept up, the distribution is even) and covered with a thinner layer of adhesive (1/4 or so of the total adhesive) -- this thin layer has only a tiny portion of the drug in it, less than the further back adhesive portion. The drug diffuses from the inner adhesive layer into the thin outer adhesive layer, and then into the skin, as everything from the patch backing (the non sticky side) to the fat below the skin becomes a gradient of fentanyl concentration. The fent continues to diffuse from the inner adhesive portion, to the outer adhesive portion, to the skin layers, and then into the fat underneath the skin, because the concentration is always lower in the last portion of the reservoir before the bloodstream (the fat below the skin) than it is closer to the drug's source and at the source (the inner adhesive portion). This remains true for as long as the patch is rated to work (3 days for duragesic, 7 days for transdur-sufentanil)... although this stops being the case quicker than that in some people. This probably isn't because the drug absorbs too quickly in these people or because there isn't enough drug in the patch (less than they say)... for brands that's STRICTLY controlled, and generics have to be close enough to be transparent to the patient (although some generics are questionable).

I think some people get a quicker poop out from patches because the pathway from the drug reservoir in the patch to the fat under the skin becomes blocked at the skin level. Under that patch, dead skin cells, sweat, and other nasties accumulate. This is accounted for in patch design... that's why extra drug that isn't needed in the perfectly ideal situation is added. Some people, I think, build up dead skin and oils quicker than even the extra drug they do put in can account for, and this seriously hinders absorption after that point, even though there is plenty of drug remaining. This would explain why the problem is more common in men -- men produce more oils and dead skin cells on average than women.

OT reference stuff about patches:
The Transdur-Sufentanil patch is a mylan generic duragesic style patch. It's the same design, the matrix patch design.

For reference, there are three basic designs for nicotine patches:

Reservoir-Matrix Hybrid: drug is contained in between an adhesive layer which contains NO drug AT ALL, and the backing (non sticky) side of the patch. This middle layer is the mixture of a drug and another sticky solvent but not necessarily an adhesive, however it isn't a liquid or gel medium, it's extremely sticky and allows the patch to be pretty flexible and comfortable. Examples: Habitrol brand of nicotine patches, some brands of birth control patches, some nitroglycerin patches

Reservoir Patches: These patches are a pouch -- one side is sticky and has adhesive; this side sticks to your skin. The other side is a non sticky piece of plastic the same size as the plastic side with a sticky surface. The drug is dispersed in an alcoholic solution made gel like with some type of polymer compound, and as the two sides of the patch are being sealed, the gel and drug solution is injected into the space between the two plastic pieces. This is a literal drug reservoir. The drug diffuses from the reservoir, through the sticky side, and into the skin.
Examples: Brand name Duragesic and the watson, sandoz, and actavis generics for duragesic are the most well know examples of this type.

Matrix Patches: These patches are similar to the matrix-reservoir hybrid kind, except that there isn't a separate formulation for the drug laced sticky reservoir part and the adhesive. The drug is instead put IN the adhesive, and is typically present throughout the adhesive of the patch. The backing / non sticky side is the only other "layer". Drug concentration is higher in the portion of the adhesive closer to the non sticky backing / further from the skin, but there is still drug in all of the adhesive right up to the part that touches your skin, the concentration is just lower there.
Examples: some birth control patches, Nicorette patches (I think), and the most infamous .... Mylan generic fentanyl transdermal system (which I am quite fond of)

Some people struggle with the matrix only and matrix reservoir hybrid type patches because their skin clogs with oil and dead skin cells extremely quickly with these patches and slows absorption soon enough that it seems to them that the patches are weaker than the reservoir kind, or in extreme cases, barely work compared to the reservoir kind. Other people have no problem with their skin and matrix patches, and they're lucky because the hybrid patches and especially the full on matrix patches are extremely comfortable to wear compared to reservoir patches (they're very flexible... like a soft sticker) and much less likely to cause an allergic reaction than the reservoir patches are because they stretch the skin less than reservoir patches do -- in that way, even somebody allergic to the adhesive is less likely to react extremely badly because the flexiness of the patch doesn't add extra irritation to the skin.

Transdur-Sufentanil is a mylan fentanyl style patch, but I urge you guys not to immediately right it off if you found mylan fentanyl less effective than mylan gel even as prescribed. The people at Durect have been observing the whole Duragesic thing very closely, and are aware of the problems that some people have with the mylan patches.

From here on in it's speculation, because while I know Durect knows of the limitations of the matrix design of mylan fent, it's impossible to say for sure how they'll try to make it a non-issue for transdur-sufentanil. BUT -- there are some things I'm betting they'll do to help make matrix work for more people than it did with mylan fentanyl. I'm guessing though that:

1)They'll, based on clinical trial data, add more sufentanil than is necessary. This is already done with ALL patches, and ALL fentanyl patches including gels, but Mylan adds more fentanyl than gels to compensate for the matrix design problems and to help allow for a smaller patch. I think Durect, however, will (proportionally) add even more extra sufentanil to their patches than mylan did to their generic duragesics with fentanyl. They'll add as much extra sufentanil as they can without risking giving people with matrix friendly skin a dose that is far too much more than the rated dosage rate. This will make the matrix design work for people who mylan fentanyl patches worked for but were weaker compared to gels.

2)They'll carefully consider the formula of the adhesive. They'll likely engage in discussion with Mylan in doing this, so perhaps Mylan may even end up changing their adhesive formulation if Durect's is a success.

They'll probably pick an adhesive that is as hypoallergenic AS POSSIBLE while still retaining enough sticking power to not have falling off issues. They may even go with a weaker adhesive than mylan uses but is extremely hypoallergenic and safe to all but the most sensitive skin in the world. Less irritation means less oil production under the patch and less death of skin cells under the patch. This lowers the chances of a partial for full blockage of fentanyl absorbtion. This, like the first thing they'll do differently, will make matrix work for more people. If they go with a less sticky but extremely hypoallergenic adhesive, I'll betcha they'll include their own version of bioclusive/tegaderm style dressings WITH the patches in the box the patches come in -- and include their use in the official directions for putting the patch on.

So for you guys who found mylan's weaker than gels, maybe give Transdur-Sufentanil a try when it comes out if your doc suggests it. I'm confident that they'll try to address the issues with the matrix design pretty aggressively.

As far as recreational use goes, it'll be similar to how mylan fentanyl's are abused: cheeked. Keep in mind although you get less Transdur-sufentanil patches per month, that means there is also a larger equianalgesic and equipotent dose in each patch than there is in the equivalent strength duragesic, so it evens out. Also, if they implement my guess #1 for how they'll deal with the downside of matrix patches, there will be proportionally more sufentanil than necessary in the patch than there is more fentanyl than necessary in the mylan fentanyl patches. This would make cheeking them even more fun than cheeking mylan fents, since there's more opioid overall. Since it's a 7 day patch, you'd only need teensy tiny pieces though... sufentanil is 10x fentanyl in potency and there's 7 days worth in each of those small little mylan fent sized patches.

I'm actually glad, from an abuse and OD potential standpoint, that Durect chose matrix as the design for their sufentanil transdermal system. Gel sufentanil seven day patches would just be a disaster -- people would drop like flies... 7 days worth of sufentanil in a gel patch + smoking it + short 4.5 hour half life (a little shorter than fentanyl's) = crack like behavior, and tons of ODs.

The fact that they're matrix patches means that even cheeked the small piece you put in, while it release MUCH more quickly than if it were worn as Rx'ed, and will certainly get you high, will still retain some of its time release. That basically means if you feel like it's getting to be too much, all you've gotta do is take the patch out of your mouth and you'll be OK. Mylans or pieces of them release all of their fentanyl contents in about 8 hours in my experience, compared to 72 hours when worn as prescribed on the skin -- this gets me high when I do it. I'd imagine transdur-sufentanil would release its sufentanil content over about the same 8 or so hours. Just gotta be sure to use a very small piece since there's a LOT of sufentanil in each of those patches. Since they'll compensate even more than mylan does for the downsides/cons of matrix patches most likely, they'll likely be even more abusable than mylan is by cheeking. Just be careful and enjoy sufentanil.

Honestly, cheeking small pieces of the new sufentanil patch coming out, to me, sounds like the only way to go. Had gel sufentanil patches came out, the smoked high would last even SHORTER a time than fentanyl smoked does, since sufentanil has a half life about half the length of fentanyl. It would not be worth it.... just too short.

Cheeking these sufentanil patches, on the other hand, will likely provide a lovely, time released, 10 hour high on the probably lovely drug sufentanil.

How do you guys feel about this sufentanil transdermal patch coming out, whether you're a CP patient or looking to cheek small pieces of them to get a nice, PPT length buzz? I'm excited personally to see an new arrival coming onto the scene of a potent opioid since it doesn't often happen. I'd be more excited to see a transdermal patch of a NON fentanyl family opioid come onto the market (like 14-cinnamyl-oxycodone transdermal system), but this is exciting enough for me.

I'm stoked :D

WOW that was a long post. Feel free to NOT read all of it if you want.... if you just skipped down to this last line, just say how ya feel about sufentanil likely becoming a prescribe-able CII opioid in the U.S.

paroxetina
12-10-2008, 06:56 PM
Sounds great. Thanks for all the info!

timothy.s.c
12-10-2008, 07:03 PM
This is great news for people needing relief from chronic pain. Also great for those who like to use fent for recreation but its got me worried. I bet we are going to see MANY more deaths from recreational use simply because one has to use a 1/10th the pea size that you would smoke of regular fent. what is that relative to, the size of a font size 12 period? lol i can imagine it now;"If you want to smoke sufent, type a size 12 period in notepad, print it out and start with a droplet that size." (this is all assuming they use they same amout of gel)

paroxetina
12-10-2008, 07:05 PM
lol i can imagine it now;"If you want to smoke sufent, type a size 12 period in notepad, print it out and start with a droplet that size."


haha! nice one :) don't forget to specify the font! actual sizes vary depending which font you're using. TIMES NEW ROMAN 12 POINT ONLY!

losangeleslifer
12-10-2008, 07:42 PM
haha! nice one :) don't forget to specify the font! actual sizes vary depending which font you're using. TIMES NEW ROMAN 12 POINT ONLY!

And by all means no bold text!!!!!

Synack
12-10-2008, 08:01 PM
I'm really looking forward to this.. and the inhaled oxymorphone/hydromorphone versions.. my doc has already agreed to put me on inhaled oxymorphone once its out there...

dharma bum
12-10-2008, 08:50 PM
Golly i miss real drugs sometimes.

Oh, what's 14-cinnamyl-oxycodone? How strong compared to regular oxy? Just curious?

resorcinol
12-10-2008, 09:14 PM
Golly i miss real drugs sometimes.

Oh, what's 14-cinnamyl-oxycodone? How strong compared to regular oxy? Just curious?

14-cinnamyl-oxycodone is a theoretical opioid that I've talked about and a few other guys on bluelight have mentioned.

14-cinnamyl-oxymorphone was found to be 200x morphine's potency, so 14-cinnamyl-oxycodone, which I can predict will have high oral bioavaliability... around 90% just like hydro/oxy-codone, is likely to be between 50-100x morphine in potency. Very potent indeed. Somewhere between half the potency of fentanyl to about the potency of fentanyl. It's never been tested on animals, so I'm basing this figure on SAR (structure activity relationships).

It fascinates me because it'd be one of the few potent opioids with a very high oral bioavalibility. Currently oxycodone is the main one, but oxycodone isn't THAT potent in the scheme of things. 14-cinnamyl-oxycodone fascinates me because it will be extremely potent, but have the high bioavalibility of oxycodone. A fent potency opioid that can be made as an oral XR preparation just like OC, but could also be made into a patch. It would be so versatile.

It's a dream opioid of mine.

halfalien_s4
12-10-2008, 09:51 PM
as an opioid for use outside of anesthesia in hospitals.

It will be delivered much like fentanyl is for the long acting version of the medication.

The brand name is Transdur-Sufentanil, created by Durect Pharmaceuticals and licensed to Endo Pharmaceuticals for distribution in the United States.

As far as I know, the Transdur-Sufentanil patch is currently in Phase II clinical trials -- if it's further along that that, somebody let me know.

This means in a few years, there will be another long acting opioid on the roster for relief of chronic pain in CP patients, both cancer and non-cancer related.

The patch itself is a little bit different than Duragesic. The biggest difference is the interval for changing the patch to a new one. Transdur-Sufentanil is a 7 day patch, meaning the typical prescription will be for four patches a month. Like with Duragesic, it's likely that some people will experience a poop out in half the time than the patch is rated for, so some people may get eight patches per month. I've heard that transdermal patches not lasting as long as they should occurs more often in males than females, although this doesn't mean that there aren't females who need more frequent patch changes too. This even applies to the nicotine patch. Some people need to change their nicotine patches every twelve hours (once in the morning, once before bed) instead of once a day.

Physically, the patch is different than brand name Duragesic too. The BRAND name Transdur-Sufentanil patch is a matrix patch, where the drug is dispersed in the lower 3/4 or so of the adhesive layer of the patch evenly (assuming quality control is kept up, the distribution is even) and covered with a thinner layer of adhesive (1/4 or so of the total adhesive) -- this thin layer has only a tiny portion of the drug in it, less than the further back adhesive portion. The drug diffuses from the inner adhesive layer into the thin outer adhesive layer, and then into the skin, as everything from the patch backing (the non sticky side) to the fat below the skin becomes a gradient of fentanyl concentration. The fent continues to diffuse from the inner adhesive portion, to the outer adhesive portion, to the skin layers, and then into the fat underneath the skin, because the concentration is always lower in the last portion of the reservoir before the bloodstream (the fat below the skin) than it is closer to the drug's source and at the source (the inner adhesive portion). This remains true for as long as the patch is rated to work (3 days for duragesic, 7 days for transdur-sufentanil)... although this stops being the case quicker than that in some people. This probably isn't because the drug absorbs too quickly in these people or because there isn't enough drug in the patch (less than they say)... for brands that's STRICTLY controlled, and generics have to be close enough to be transparent to the patient (although some generics are questionable).

I think some people get a quicker poop out from patches because the pathway from the drug reservoir in the patch to the fat under the skin becomes blocked at the skin level. Under that patch, dead skin cells, sweat, and other nasties accumulate. This is accounted for in patch design... that's why extra drug that isn't needed in the perfectly ideal situation is added. Some people, I think, build up dead skin and oils quicker than even the extra drug they do put in can account for, and this seriously hinders absorption after that point, even though there is plenty of drug remaining. This would explain why the problem is more common in men -- men produce more oils and dead skin cells on average than women.

OT reference stuff about patches:
The Transdur-Sufentanil patch is a mylan generic duragesic style patch. It's the same design, the matrix patch design.

For reference, there are three basic designs for nicotine patches:

Reservoir-Matrix Hybrid: drug is contained in between an adhesive layer which contains NO drug AT ALL, and the backing (non sticky) side of the patch. This middle layer is the mixture of a drug and another sticky solvent but not necessarily an adhesive, however it isn't a liquid or gel medium, it's extremely sticky and allows the patch to be pretty flexible and comfortable. Examples: Habitrol brand of nicotine patches, some brands of birth control patches, some nitroglycerin patches

Reservoir Patches: These patches are a pouch -- one side is sticky and has adhesive; this side sticks to your skin. The other side is a non sticky piece of plastic the same size as the plastic side with a sticky surface. The drug is dispersed in an alcoholic solution made gel like with some type of polymer compound, and as the two sides of the patch are being sealed, the gel and drug solution is injected into the space between the two plastic pieces. This is a literal drug reservoir. The drug diffuses from the reservoir, through the sticky side, and into the skin.
Examples: Brand name Duragesic and the watson, sandoz, and actavis generics for duragesic are the most well know examples of this type.

Matrix Patches: These patches are similar to the matrix-reservoir hybrid kind, except that there isn't a separate formulation for the drug laced sticky reservoir part and the adhesive. The drug is instead put IN the adhesive, and is typically present throughout the adhesive of the patch. The backing / non sticky side is the only other "layer". Drug concentration is higher in the portion of the adhesive closer to the non sticky backing / further from the skin, but there is still drug in all of the adhesive right up to the part that touches your skin, the concentration is just lower there.
Examples: some birth control patches, Nicorette patches (I think), and the most infamous .... Mylan generic fentanyl transdermal system (which I am quite fond of)

Some people struggle with the matrix only and matrix reservoir hybrid type patches because their skin clogs with oil and dead skin cells extremely quickly with these patches and slows absorption soon enough that it seems to them that the patches are weaker than the reservoir kind, or in extreme cases, barely work compared to the reservoir kind. Other people have no problem with their skin and matrix patches, and they're lucky because the hybrid patches and especially the full on matrix patches are extremely comfortable to wear compared to reservoir patches (they're very flexible... like a soft sticker) and much less likely to cause an allergic reaction than the reservoir patches are because they stretch the skin less than reservoir patches do -- in that way, even somebody allergic to the adhesive is less likely to react extremely badly because the flexiness of the patch doesn't add extra irritation to the skin.

Transdur-Sufentanil is a mylan fentanyl style patch, but I urge you guys not to immediately right it off if you found mylan fentanyl less effective than mylan gel even as prescribed. The people at Durect have been observing the whole Duragesic thing very closely, and are aware of the problems that some people have with the mylan patches.

From here on in it's speculation, because while I know Durect knows of the limitations of the matrix design of mylan fent, it's impossible to say for sure how they'll try to make it a non-issue for transdur-sufentanil. BUT -- there are some things I'm betting they'll do to help make matrix work for more people than it did with mylan fentanyl. I'm guessing though that:

1)They'll, based on clinical trial data, add more sufentanil than is necessary. This is already done with ALL patches, and ALL fentanyl patches including gels, but Mylan adds more fentanyl than gels to compensate for the matrix design problems and to help allow for a smaller patch. I think Durect, however, will (proportionally) add even more extra sufentanil to their patches than mylan did to their generic duragesics with fentanyl. They'll add as much extra sufentanil as they can without risking giving people with matrix friendly skin a dose that is far too much more than the rated dosage rate. This will make the matrix design work for people who mylan fentanyl patches worked for but were weaker compared to gels.

2)They'll carefully consider the formula of the adhesive. They'll likely engage in discussion with Mylan in doing this, so perhaps Mylan may even end up changing their adhesive formulation if Durect's is a success.

They'll probably pick an adhesive that is as hypoallergenic AS POSSIBLE while still retaining enough sticking power to not have falling off issues. They may even go with a weaker adhesive than mylan uses but is extremely hypoallergenic and safe to all but the most sensitive skin in the world. Less irritation means less oil production under the patch and less death of skin cells under the patch. This lowers the chances of a partial for full blockage of fentanyl absorbtion. This, like the first thing they'll do differently, will make matrix work for more people. If they go with a less sticky but extremely hypoallergenic adhesive, I'll betcha they'll include their own version of bioclusive/tegaderm style dressings WITH the patches in the box the patches come in -- and include their use in the official directions for putting the patch on.

So for you guys who found mylan's weaker than gels, maybe give Transdur-Sufentanil a try when it comes out if your doc suggests it. I'm confident that they'll try to address the issues with the matrix design pretty aggressively.

As far as recreational use goes, it'll be similar to how mylan fentanyl's are abused: cheeked. Keep in mind although you get less Transdur-sufentanil patches per month, that means there is also a larger equianalgesic and equipotent dose in each patch than there is in the equivalent strength duragesic, so it evens out. Also, if they implement my guess #1 for how they'll deal with the downside of matrix patches, there will be proportionally more sufentanil than necessary in the patch than there is more fentanyl than necessary in the mylan fentanyl patches. This would make cheeking them even more fun than cheeking mylan fents, since there's more opioid overall. Since it's a 7 day patch, you'd only need teensy tiny pieces though... sufentanil is 10x fentanyl in potency and there's 7 days worth in each of those small little mylan fent sized patches.

I'm actually glad, from an abuse and OD potential standpoint, that Durect chose matrix as the design for their sufentanil transdermal system. Gel sufentanil seven day patches would just be a disaster -- people would drop like flies... 7 days worth of sufentanil in a gel patch + smoking it + short 4.5 hour half life (a little shorter than fentanyl's) = crack like behavior, and tons of ODs.

The fact that they're matrix patches means that even cheeked the small piece you put in, while it release MUCH more quickly than if it were worn as Rx'ed, and will certainly get you high, will still retain some of its time release. That basically means if you feel like it's getting to be too much, all you've gotta do is take the patch out of your mouth and you'll be OK. Mylans or pieces of them release all of their fentanyl contents in about 8 hours in my experience, compared to 72 hours when worn as prescribed on the skin -- this gets me high when I do it. I'd imagine transdur-sufentanil would release its sufentanil content over about the same 8 or so hours. Just gotta be sure to use a very small piece since there's a LOT of sufentanil in each of those patches. Since they'll compensate even more than mylan does for the downsides/cons of matrix patches most likely, they'll likely be even more abusable than mylan is by cheeking. Just be careful and enjoy sufentanil.

Honestly, cheeking small pieces of the new sufentanil patch coming out, to me, sounds like the only way to go. Had gel sufentanil patches came out, the smoked high would last even SHORTER a time than fentanyl smoked does, since sufentanil has a half life about half the length of fentanyl. It would not be worth it.... just too short.

Cheeking these sufentanil patches, on the other hand, will likely provide a lovely, time released, 10 hour high on the probably lovely drug sufentanil.

How do you guys feel about this sufentanil transdermal patch coming out, whether you're a CP patient or looking to cheek small pieces of them to get a nice, PPT length buzz? I'm excited personally to see an new arrival coming onto the scene of a potent opioid since it doesn't often happen. I'd be more excited to see a transdermal patch of a NON fentanyl family opioid come onto the market (like 14-cinnamyl-oxycodone transdermal system), but this is exciting enough for me.

I'm stoked :D

WOW that was a long post. Feel free to NOT read all of it if you want.... if you just skipped down to this last line, just say how ya feel about sufentanil likely becoming a prescribe-able CII opioid in the U.S.


yep it is...as a patch from the rsearch ive done on it. Afentanil is also about to be r4eleased into a patch-form as well. another new one is Vicodin CR.

Paregoric Kid
12-10-2008, 11:12 PM
about a year ago or so I posted about a 7-day sufentanil patch, brand name Transdur, that was awaiting approval. it is still in phase II, it will be a while till we see these on the market.

Larry
12-11-2008, 07:57 AM
This is great news for people needing relief from chronic pain. Also great for those who like to use fent for recreation but its got me worried. I bet we are going to see MANY more deaths from recreational use simply because one has to use a 1/10th the pea size that you would smoke of regular fent. what is that relative to, the size of a font size 12 period? lol i can imagine it now;"If you want to smoke sufent, type a size 12 period in notepad, print it out and start with a droplet that size." (this is all assuming they use they same amout of gel)

+1

bigfootlives
12-11-2008, 09:27 AM
Another reason to be jealous of you Americans with all your fancy pharmaceuticals :p.

bigNasty
12-11-2008, 11:01 AM
does anybody know what strenghts these patches will be available in?

rockbottom
12-11-2008, 11:05 AM
nice idea--and scince the profits will be there-they'll let em make it for awhile-----until it becomes the next scourge:)

Tea Time
12-11-2008, 11:05 AM
about a year ago or so I posted about a 7-day sufentanil patch, brand name Transdur, that was awaiting approval. it is still in phase II, it will be a while till we see these on the market.

I think I remember seeing you mention that here. I also remember seeing somebody post results and information either here or at the PORG for sufentanil clinical trials.

halfalien_s4
12-11-2008, 12:24 PM
about a year ago or so I posted about a 7-day sufentanil patch, brand name Transdur, that was awaiting approval. it is still in phase II, it will be a while till we see these on the market.


yea u must of read the same thing i did cuz i knew it was also a 7 patch but i musta forgotton about that. just think people.......theres actually a drug coming to the market thats *actually* even a little or maybe a lot (dont know) possibly stronger than fent itself. i cant wait to get my hands on sum, whenever it comes out (if its on my health insurance, that could take 3 or 4 yrs 4 them top finally cover new stuff like that, like opan & palladone. anyways, im excited to check this drug out. however, ive tried the fent patches i think 3 times now, and everytime they didnt do jack 2 me. and they i think i read there as great as the actiq and heard from others that i know at my PM place, and on here. but like i was sayin, they dont work on me at all and i have no idea why i wish they did.

first time i gotta script 4 duragesic (i got the 1s with the get right there on the top & were clear), last time i gottem, my doc told me to slap onof 100mcg, & the 2nd i called him, spoke directly to him and asked sum question as to did he have any thoughts of why they werent working, so after us trying to fig=ure it out, he wrote me another script for 25mcgs, and he told me to try 1st slapping on one and see if anything happens, and he even told me if that didnt work, slap on a 2nd one. still no luck so ive given up those now, which is the reason im on actiq. in a nutshell, i basically asked him if he ever write scripts 4 them and he was like "oh, yea, i write those to a lot of cancer patiens & a couple of pain patients." i asked him if he would mind letting me to try em' so he wrote it up but told me that more than likely my insurance wouldnt except it. so he wrote the script & wrote sumthing speciaL (not gonna say what cuz i wouldnt ever wanna get him in any kind of trouble which was higly i think improbable). so that being said, i got the fent suckers w/ np, yep, i cant wait to try all the new stuff theyre all workin on & realeasing even a couple new ones to the market after being FDA aprove of coarse.

im really sorry 4 high-jacking the thread and write so much. im also kinda blazed cuz i just smoked sum nice bud a few mintes ago, aqnd it makes me even more talkative i am....lol :p

halfalien_s4
12-11-2008, 12:26 PM
This is great news for people needing relief from chronic pain. Also great for those who like to use fent for recreation but its got me worried. I bet we are going to see MANY more deaths from recreational use simply because one has to use a 1/10th the pea size that you would smoke of regular fent. what is that relative to, the size of a font size 12 period? lol i can imagine it now;"If you want to smoke sufent, type a size 12 period in notepad, print it out and start with a droplet that size." (this is all assuming they use they same amout of gel)



i totally agree especially about it helping pain & all the rest, but especially chronic pain.....;)

halfalien_s4
12-11-2008, 12:44 PM
I'm really looking forward to this.. and the inhaled oxymorphone/hydromorphone versions.. my doc has already agreed to put me on inhaled oxymorphone once its out there...


uh....could u please elaborate a bit on this new "inhaled" Oxymorphone stuff? no joke i never have ever heard of this, and i am always on top of all the new meds coming out.....u got me hella curius...:speechles


btw, im gonna sart researching on this patch and read everthing i can find on the net about it!

Paregoric Kid
12-11-2008, 01:11 PM
also, I believe sufentanil is already in the United States. the pharmaceutical industry makes Sufenta sufentanil citrate IV amps for anasethesia. of course there probably also is clandestinely synthesiszed sufentanil has been produced but I doubt it is something you're likely to ever just come across it.

Narkotikon
12-11-2008, 05:25 PM
Don't they use sufentanil for heart surgery, or is that alfentanil or another analog? I don't remember. If someone knows what I'm thinking of, can they explain why it is used during heart surgery, rather than just plain fent or even another opiate? Is it because of it's half-life, or it's potency?

Paregoric Kid
12-13-2008, 04:04 AM
it would be used as a general anesthetic as well as an analgesic in heart surgery, in combination with other IV drugs, such as strong benzodiazepines and barbiturates or propofol. the anesthesiologist checks out as much sufentanil citrate amps as he needs to knock the person out. it is used in doses high enough to cause unconsciousness but not high enough to cause respiratory depression, they are also given oxygen through a mask at the same time I believe.

Narkotikon
12-13-2008, 10:44 AM
But why is it specifically preferred over other narcotics for heart surgery?

resorcinol
12-13-2008, 11:29 AM
This is great news for people needing relief from chronic pain. Also great for those who like to use fent for recreation but its got me worried. I bet we are going to see MANY more deaths from recreational use simply because one has to use a 1/10th the pea size that you would smoke of regular fent. what is that relative to, the size of a font size 12 period? lol i can imagine it now;"If you want to smoke sufent, type a size 12 period in notepad, print it out and start with a droplet that size." (this is all assuming they use they same amout of gel)

There won't be any gel. BRAND NAME TransdurSufentanil will be a matrix patch like Mylan duragesics, the difference being they will be 7 day patches instead of three day patches.

So when generics eventually come out, I presume they will all be matrix too. If brand is matrix, why would a generic company reformulate to gel pouch kinds? Matrix patches are the wave of the future in opioid pain relief patches and transdermal patches in general.

I think the technology will improve over the product that Mylan produces, too -- probably by including more sufentanil than is necessary (even more, proportionally, than mylan includes in their fentanyl patches) so there will be less absorption problems. Also, like I mentioned in the first post, I could see them developing an adhesive that is less likely to create a blockage under the patch to absorption, which I believe may be the issue some people have with mylans. I could see them going for a weaker, but gentler adhesive and including a transparent dressing with each patch so falling off isn't an issue.

This eases my concern about a rash of ODs when this comes out, since matrix patches retain some time release when abused buccally (cheeked). The rate of release is increased dramatically, but still isn't instant like gel is. So if a person suddenly felt like it was too much, removing the piece of matrix patch would prevent an overdose.