Zombie from M'done, need otc help, psuedoephed? [Archive]

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acey

12-07-2008, 06:41 PM

I fricken am so sick of being fuckin tired!!!! Just finished mid-term exams, essays, finals, and all that bullshit excetp for one more in a week.

Now my problem is I take 2mg of clonazepam by my p-doc and they both know, but since i worked my way up to 60mg of done' Im a walkin coffin! Seriously, my brain is operating at half speed and I wann nod all the time, which in the right setting is great but not at family dinners, classroom discussions, presentations. Get the picture? Hope so because im having troulbe typing this even!

Now i just went out and bought a pack of 100mg caffiene pills, and a box of psuedoephedrine 60mgs.......gimmme a recommendation on how not to appear like a fuckin fiancee whos getting shitfaced before every gathering and all slow reacting and (please god, nodding out), and slobbering, slurring asshole! Help I need somebody Help!

I was ok, at 30, same with 40, but 50 slitght notice, and 60 me and my lady hate!

thank in advanced....sorry for the slepeppling errors lol.....peace

Thanks good friends for real. :confused:

Princess

12-07-2008, 06:47 PM

So why is it, exactly that you went up to 60mg if you were okay at lower doses?
I don't get it.

jonny-5

12-07-2008, 06:47 PM

i used to use crystal meth, it worked great at keeping me from nodding. however, it will not help your brain power at all, so i'd advise against it. um...maybe lower your methadone dose?

Duckfeet

12-07-2008, 08:41 PM

Yep: second to constipation, that was thing I hated most about methadone...every time I'd sit anywhere, I wanted to lay down...and it wasn't *good* nap, either--20-30 minutes--but more like nightime sleep, where I'd wake back up groggy as shit and hating the world...and I love to read and think, and it seemed like I had alzheimers or something...and I'm an age--57--where that shit can really worry a boy...

but anyway, I just started a slow taper...and the lower I got, the less side effects I felt, naturally...but anyway, as u posted, I was probably best around 50mg, no higher, and felt totally normal at 10mg...but anyway...just for the sake of argument, there *are* those who will say that what you are describing comes from too *low* a dose, not too high...and they make a pretty persuasive argument...even tho I disagreed w/them, they were nice to me...I just disagreed to often...and that's why I'm off methadone....but anyway, these are the sort of questions they are very good and knowledgable about...several are my friends, and sometimes post here: go to main forum: here/s the site:

http://www.readybb.com/watchdog/

But anyway, I didn't buy it, and I'm off methadone now, so...best wishes..

Duckfeet

12-07-2008, 08:55 PM

Ahhh,,,,I could probably answer that one, as I was *always* best at 50mg, and knew it...but just *had* to go up, every damn time...I think I always got the "getting well" euphoria of methadone confused w/the euphoria or short-acting opiates...so once I know longer "felt it" much after dosing, I'd always crawl up to 100 or more mg daily...and then have to crawl back down again, once I realized it was hopeless...my brain just doesn't seem to work that logically, when it comes to opiates...so that's my guess: maybe he had different reasons...

So why is it, exactly that you went up to 60mg if you were okay at lower doses?
I don't get it.

SynthMorph

12-07-2008, 09:22 PM

When I was on 'done the difference between nodding out all the time and being able to function was as simple as drinking a cup of coffee.

acey

12-07-2008, 10:19 PM

Well, thank you for the handfull of support and wisdom. PTO mom I just simply followed the program and the program here has an outrageous waiting list and out 2 docs are non stop. So they make a taper up plan after the caseworkers chat with me then the doc writed and they fax to the pharm then i see the doc in a month. In the first case it was 30 slowly up to 80mg and the circumstances were exact and i had no probs, except I wanted to tyr Subutex, so I did.

3 months past, suboxone was like a complet bullseye in my treatment, loved it!!! But it got too expensive. Back to done'.

I requested a more discreet pharm that dispenses in a private room and it worked great, very discreet and FAST. But I dont see the Doctor till the 29th and thats too long, but I am going to try contact my case worker for a counselling session to figure this one out, cause they wanna give me carries, and the doc said since i was on the subs they'll put me on the fast track once im stableized.....but obviously im not! It's not as simple as drinking 30 for 4 days 40 for 3, 50 for 3, then when it gets to 60mgs saying "50mgs fine thanks" and leave a tip.

Thanks Duckfeet for the excellent words of encouragment and everybody else. it a good thing school is coming to a break.

reddragon3668

12-07-2008, 10:53 PM

I am sure Duck hit nail on the head here. My experience with Methadone has been via pain management, but I was on it for six years and know all too well the lethargy and dolorous disposition that one can easily fall into at higher doses of 'done. I don't know if there is a solution for it, except simply coming off of it or going back down to the dose where you were fine.

About two years or so before I come off of 'done, my doctor started giving me samples of Provigil. Its a drug for the treatment of narcolepsy...while it wasn't a perfect solution, it really did help me allot. Unfortunately for me, I didn't have insurance at the time and there wasn't a generic available so I only had it when he had samples.. the shit was like 8 bucks a pill and I just couldn't afford. Its not an OTC solution but it may help if you could find a way to get it.

I used to take allot of those energy pills, and they would do a decent job... now, with all the "energy" drinks out there, if I were on 'done I would be drinking the hell out of them. They help me now with the little sleepyness that accompanies my intake of Opana. Along with the caffiene and shit like that, there is a good amount of Vitamin B in various forms which can also be helpful for some people.

I hope you find a solution. I know it sucks. Its one of those catch22's which reminds us that there are no perfect answers. If you do find something that works, let us know. There's allot of people who suffer what your going through and an workable solutuon (for you) might just be what someone else needs. Good luck!

Princess

12-08-2008, 12:08 AM

I was just curious since he said he was ok at 30mg, but kept going up anyway.

I'm having my own struggles with methadone these days. I'm totally torn right now as far as taking it goes. I don't want to be taking it, considering I'm dealing with losing Scott because of it. I'm currently prescribed 120 mg a day for pain, but I just can't do it. (and I agree Duck, I'm okay at 80mg, but "need" 120)

I'm finding that all I do is cry. I'm not the girl that usually cries. I think in the past year, I've cried once (obviously before we lost Scott) and then, I was on methadone too. I realize that I have every reason to be crying right now, BUT this methadone is killing me. I've seriously been so fucking depressed and emotional lately that it's just not normal behavior for me, even with the grieving thing I'm dealing with. Sometimes if I hear the AIM alert on my cell phone and I'll start crying just because it's a sound that reminds me of dek. It's just not like me. I don't know if I'm losing my mind because of grief or the methadone or both so until I figure it out, I've prescribed myself heroin for pain.

But, when dek and I were both on methadone, he'd give me shit loads of caffeine pills and those seemed to keep me going when I started feeling blah or noddy.

See, just writing this shit is making me cry!!

Duckfeet

12-08-2008, 10:31 AM

Don't feel bad, honey: from 'life' to 'loss' to the effects of methadone, it's always hard to sort things out: I know I've been at this longer than most, and yet, still, don't know why I get sad *or* happy, and I too found that I was pretty emotional on methadone, and I couldn't tell whether mdone was *causing* or *curing* that stuff...and I was still pretty emotional after I got off, but it seems better, now, not quite so intense...

Sometimes I think it's just the season, I miss my ex terribly this time of year, tho I have no good memories of us during these times--well, one good memory, in a motel, Christmas, in Houston, just us two--and last time I saw her she was still in prison, tho now she's out, and I don't even know if she's alive, or what state she's in, as I never answered her last letter from Louisiana Woman's Prison, which I regret: all she did was tell me how she knew I'd be glad that she seemed to be getting rid of hepC, and did I still love her at all? ... and I just didn't answer it, for reasons I dont' even remember: I guess I was chasing dope, and didn't have time for all that shit...now I ache when I think of it...only woman I ever really loved, and we had been together thru it all...

So I know what u mean, life sometimes is so tuff, and the only comfort sometimes seems to come from opiates...and the ones we really want and *need* are so hard and illegal to get, that we are forced onto drugs like methadone and buprenorphene which are "o.k." but it's cold to *have* to take them, when we want some comfort and peace in this insane world we are thrown into, and should be able to legally obtain heroin, rather than these pale substitutes forced on us by society...

o well, I hope u feel better, and I know, exactly, how u feel...

I was just curious since he said he was ok at 30mg, but kept going up anyway.
I'm having my own struggles with methadone these days. I'm totally torn right now as far as taking it goes.

<snip>

See, just writing this shit is making me cry!!

Princess

12-08-2008, 10:48 AM

Thanks, Duck. Glad to hear I'm not going crazy.
I've always been the *strong* one and lately all I do is fucking cry.
My son used to freak out if I cried and lately he'll knock on my door "mom, are you crying again?"
I gotta get my shit together! I haven't used the methadone in a few days now (and the past week was very little amounts) and I'm hoping I won't have to anymore, go back to the dr on Thursday and I'm sure he'll switch me. Hopefully I can get back to my *normal* self soon.

Narkotikon

12-08-2008, 12:35 PM

I'm sorry you're so sedated. If you don't really need the Clonazepam, I'd say stop it or lower the dose, because I'm sure that's adding to the sedation. It sounds like you're just on too much methadone. I know that clinics like to have you on a fairly high dose, like 80mg or above, because they want that blocking effect. But, you're the one who has to take it. If you feel better on 40mg than 60mg, tell them, and go back down. You'll be glad you did in the long run. And don't believe that "oh, it will get better as you get a higher dose" bullshit. Yes, I'm sure that is sometimes the case, but they totally fucked me at my clinic, saying that, and of course I believed them, not knowing much about methadone at the time. "Oh, yes, go up another 10mg, it will make you feel better." And of course I believed them because what addict doesn't think more is better? I ended up on 140mg and so sedated and drooling on myself I was just nodding all day and sleeping. Horrible, horrible ten months.

Anyway, as to the pseudofed. You do know that it can make you test positive (falsely of course) for amphetamines. Just wanted you to know that because the clinic could try to say you're using speed on top of the methadone.

DCBA

12-08-2008, 12:45 PM

i bet that if you stop clonazepam you will find your almost permanent awake..
But dont do it without a taper, can be deadly..
But if your with sonolence/sedation from methadone the last thing you need is a benzo, specially a muscle relaxant one like clonazepam, it turns you to jelly.. dont do it..

Voyager

12-10-2008, 07:44 AM

Yeah, the casual Methadone side effect...fucked up.
Well, the best thing that works to remove all those Methadone side effects like tiredness, constipation, depression, nodding off, etc.., is Methylphenidate (Ritalin or it's extended release version Concerta).
It's used for the oipoid side effects very much in the world.
I asked my doctor to prescribe me one 36mg tablet of COncerta a day, in the morning together with my dose of Methadone, and he agreed.
And it really works wonders.
No more tiredness, no more constipation, no more nodding offs every time I sit somwhere for longer than 3 minutes, etc..
It's really the most successfull way of removing Methadoen side effects.
Plus, it'll give you one helluva high, because it's pharmacologically proven (also written on our Serbian Methadone patient instructions) that Methylphanidate boosts Methadone's opioid analgetic effects and produces stimulation.
And it's really true.
Try Ritalin 10mg tablets 3 times a day, or one 36mg tablet of Concerta in the morning together with your daily dose of Methadone, you'll be surprised.

stephenISall

12-10-2008, 09:16 AM

im on 120mgs of 'done and i usually have to take a nap every day around 2 or 3 and id ose around 1030. when i first got on methadone i was good at around 60. when i say good i mean i still had energy, was MOTIVATED and could still work out. in fact, i actually hit a steroid cycle at that time and i kid you not, i put on 20 lbs in the first 17 days!!!!!!!!!!. now that is NOT normal. even for steroids. thats a CRAAAAZY amount of mass to put on so fast. anyway, the more done i took the more lazy it made me. when i got up to around 100ish i stopped working out as much and by the time i was on 125 i had NO desire to work out at all and became lazy like alot of people do when they are on done.

i drink coffee everyday and that doesnt seem to help. i tried that 5 hour energy stuff and i thought it worked. its not just a shitload of caffeine. has alot of good vitamins n stuff like that so it doesnt make you all shaky n crazy. it kept me awake but i still felt tired. if that makes sense. its like... being up for 4 days and you're tired as hell, then you take a big hit of crack. you'll be UP, but exhausted. im sure most of you know what that feels like.

on the other hand, i dont get emotional at all. i become the OPPOSITE. dont really get constipated either. very very rarely. i was taking klonopin for about 6 months(for obvious reasons) and of course it didnt really help any. helped it other ways , yeah, but was still sluggish and just slooooow. only thing you can really do is to lower or alternate when you take your Kpins and lower your dose. i think thats the most obvious choice. or try to split dose. that works great for me. take 60 in the morning, then 60 later. i have a VERY fast metabolism so this works awesome for me. otherwise i get real tired n feel good the first couple hours then it wears off and i feel like shit. :mad: my dr also recommended concerta for my ADD and i remembered how voyager says it works well for him so id like to get on that. but, she wont script it to me cause she thinks she'll lose her license or some shit. so i have to go somewhere else to get it. but if iw as seeing a shrink, id be on benzo's. whatever, anyway. i can recommend to either split your dose, lower or change your dosing time of your Kpins, lower your methadone dose, or a combination of all 3. i think everything has been said already. sorry for the long drawn out reply. i hope you feel better and i hope one of our suggestions helps you. :o

DCBA

12-10-2008, 11:05 AM

Voyager (http://forum.opiophile.org/member.php?u=5984), i wish i could talk my doc into concerta or ritalin.. maybe ill try.. but will be hard cause its a state clinic.. but trying wont hurt much..

PS. im on 120mgs daily and only feel sedated if i lay down on the coach seeing telly or whatever.. or when i use antihistamines or benzos or when i dont sleep the night before..
Different strokes for different folks!

Armegeddon73

12-10-2008, 12:28 PM

I'm so sorry your going through such a tough time. Take Voyagers advice; concerta/adderall/ritalin will eliminate this problem. A bonus is you have the K-Pins for when you DO need to fall asleep. Good luck and keep your chin up! Off to the shrink for me. Peace. ARM

roxi*stardust

12-10-2008, 07:51 PM

When I was on 'done the difference between nodding out all the time and being able to function was as simple as drinking a cup of coffee.

I find that a cup of coffe or two does wonders. If you don't like coffee, try 2 Excedrin tablets. Of course the best thing I have taken to fight the lethargy is Adderall. the Methadone/Adderall combo is fan fucking tastic

Kallie

12-10-2008, 08:31 PM

I find that a cup of coffe or two does wonders. If you don't like coffee, try 2 Excedrin tablets. Of course the best thing I have taken to fight the lethargy is Adderall. the Methadone/Adderall combo is fan fucking tastic

I'm on ritalin and methadone 120mg and not so psyched with those results. Previously I was on Adderall 60mg and Morphine 240mg and that was excellent. Maybe it's time to switch stims, hmm?:rolleyes:

Paregoric Kid

12-10-2008, 11:41 PM

ephedrine or coca tea would work better than pseudoephedrine.

acey

12-14-2008, 01:12 AM

thanks for all the super replies and advice! I dropped my 'done dose and now everything is nice!!!

I've been on the clonazepam for over a year so I wasnt about to stop with those, but I would like to start ta[eriing them to!!

Duckfeet

12-14-2008, 09:10 AM

Saint

12-14-2008, 11:10 AM

Even tho it goes again every junky bone in my body: I was always happier at lower methadone doses and "felt" them more, too...actually, for me, right around 50mg was my favorite...higher doses just seemed to cause me too many problems, and no xtra euphoria...

Me too, any dose between 30 and 50 mgs is ok. Above I'm a constipated zomby, lower and I'm in too much pain.
Here in Europe they will not RX you ritalin/concerta I'm afraid.. like to try it though.
To the OP: glad to hear things are getting better.

DCBA

12-14-2008, 02:26 PM

Saint, Voyager is from Europe.. But is one privileged fellow yes indeed...
But your right, only hyperactive kids and adult narcoleptics got ritalin here, no ADD or anything for adults except narcolepsy.

i8op8s

12-24-2008, 04:47 PM

i find always moving around..and excersizing/stretching. in the morning..helps me ALOT...if i just stay in bed or sit down doing mindless things i will nod out right away..but if i am mentally stimulated..and get a nice excersize session bike ride or something in the morning..i will be less likely to feel tired at all until night time rolls around.also coffe/redbulls etc..

stick+lick

12-31-2008, 07:04 AM

I didn't read all the replies so I hope I am not repeating anything but the simple answer to ME is that you taper off the klonapin before you taper off the methadone.

Unless you truly truly can't live without benzo's because of a mental illness, mixing them with methadone will make you sloppy, sluggish, comatose, DEAD and you will forget a LOT.

Another option is splitting your dose. When I first started treatment I did a 2/3 and 1/3 split and it worked very well.

stick+lick

12-31-2008, 07:05 AM

A drug the doc might be more willing to prescribe is PROVIGIL (sp?). Many pain patients take it and it's mild compared to ritalin.

acey

01-15-2009, 10:04 PM

I just switched from klonopin to diazepam...15mg a day and it's feels really good to have no withdrawals from the clonazepam that would kick in @ about the 3 day mark. I'm on 60mg, have gone down to 50, and back up to 60...The doctor kinda pushed me up to sixty saying "very few do good on doses like 50...usually 80 is the starting point for most"...Now I feel the 60mg doesnt do anything better buzz wise but adds to the side effects Im not interested in. @ 50mg I felt great and had no side effects. So I think I'll taper the done back to 50. and keep the diazepam @ a steady taper.

And to point out the poster above, I know they say its dangerous, but I believe addiction is a mental illness in itself so we all gotta be safe. the benzos were to help with Anxiety disorder. But I would rather find a way to overcome that drug free as possible...maybe a new ssri, and a short acting benzo prn.

Once I'm back @ 50mg of don I think I'll chill for awhile and concentrate on "uni" and then get financially stable enough to go back on bupe. I'll research about the jump from done to bupe, and how low the done doseage should be when the time comes.

thanks for all the support! I'm allways willing to lend a hand, its too bad we couldnt pm, but with all the bullshit that ruined it...I dunno exactly but solicitation is my best guess.

peace:)

acey

06-27-2009, 03:08 AM

Update! I wish my doc would prescribe me some rittalin/adderal/concerta with 'done that seems to truly solve the problem for most folks, but my doc may have done Provigil, which is much more milder....

But thanks Duckfeet, Princess, and all the others. You guys nailed it when 30 was good for a few days, then I'd better get up to 40, 50, 60, 80, and when I went in complaining ha said maybe less of the clonazepam but still somehow tried to recommend a *higher dose*!!!!

I don't know, but it was fishy....I needed the Clonazepam and it worked fine with 40mg of done' which I was trying to make happen...lower my dose untill I am comfortable, but the clinic equates comfortable too mean "Increase the dose!" when really @ 50, all I had to do was finally just say "I have to go down to 40!, Let's just try it!....and at 40mg it was perfect, and he started a slow benzo taper where I am on valium now.

So it's 10 mg valium per day, NO METHADONE, 4mg Suboxone, sometimes 2mg,(slowly trying to come off that expensive stuff! But I know one thing....I'm never going on methadone again. It just didn't agree with me.

Thanks again everybody! And anybody who is where I was, this thread has a lot of good info!

Peace

Cheri

07-09-2009, 10:59 PM

When I started methadone I would nod off at the computer on the toilet ect. but after I did some research I found out that it can be a sing of under dosing just the same as it being too much. For me, everyone is different, the nodding stopped FTER I got over 120mg. but until then I nodded anywhere and everywhere. Since going up, went up to 200, I have been fine. I am currently at 170mg. so I have came down a little.

The thing is that your dose hits you and you go through it much faster, because you are under dosed and this leaves you feeling wore out and causes you to nod. Just remember that there is no low dose or high dose, just the right dose and that is different for everyone.

Cheri

PS Hi Duckfeet!

Synack

07-09-2009, 11:09 PM

Try 400mg of provigil.. you can order it online from overseas (Modalert is the name I think) if you can't get it from your doc... it worked for me. Even on 'done I managed to stay mostly awake.

Tbird921

07-12-2009, 03:57 AM