Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

[Hiram]

I just listened to an excellent public radio presentation relating to the economic and negative sociological implications of the failed war on drugs. LEAP is a 501(c)3 nonprofit educational organization that.

Mission Statement:
The mission of LEAP is to reduce the multitude of unintended harmful consequences resulting from fighting the war on drugs and to lessen the incidence of death, disease, crime, and addiction by ultimately ending drug prohibition.

Sounds like they're on our side from the harm reduction aspect from a legal and economic standpoint.


www.LEAP.cc

[dharma bum]

Hey thanks for this Hiram. I saw a video posted on here probably of some police veterans speaking out against prohibition. Hopefully, other LE will follow these rational ones. Doubtful but a ray of light at least to see that a few non-users 'get it'.

[Narkotikon]

I think it's just stigma and ignorance. The government is basically a bunch of old guys, and children of old guys. They just grew up when "Reefer Madness" was taught in schools. They were taught that drugs were evil, simple as that. And since most of those people control government, I don't think any change will happen until they're dead and younger people eventually take over. What I mean is, people who are young today, but who will take over in the future when they're older. But, even then, I know some young people who are pretty ignorant and think drugs are evil.

It's just a matter of getting the majority of the population to quit believing in ignorance and misinformation. Right now I think the majority still believes that drugs are evil. My mother is an example. She grew up in the 50's when they taught that kind of thing, and she thinks pot is as bad as heroin, and that poppy seeds and pods contain heroin. She once told me, "I can't believe you buy that heroin in the stores" when I bought poppy seeds one time. I mean, how ignorant can you get?

[Hiram]

Hey thanks for this Hiram. I saw a video posted on here probably of some police veterans speaking out against prohibition. Hopefully, other LE will follow these rational ones. Doubtful but a ray of light at least to see that a few non-users 'get it'.

Yeah, I can't remember if I posted that video or somebody else. It was a good video to educated the black market on what LE looks for on the highways. The video was also for profit, which if it was me posting it, then it probably wasn't a good choice in comparison to the link to this particular organization. Education from an economic and moral standpoint to help people realize that drug users are still capable of being productive members of society, even more so if they lack felonies and such. To see that "drug related" murders aren't typically carried out by your typical user, but instead are usually carried out by participants in the black market. It would be like saying the St. Valentine's Day massacre were alcohol related murders. That didn't happen because Al Capone was drinking, that happened because somebody was getting in between him and his money.

LE has an obligation to enforce the law, but I do hope that basic morals can begin entering our legal system through the correct avenues to correct the unethical and/or unconstitutional laws.

[dharma bum]

I think it's just stigma and ignorance. The government is basically a bunch of old guys, and children of old guys. They just grew up when "Reefer Madness" was taught in schools. They were taught that drugs were evil, simple as that. And since most of those people control government, I don't think any change will happen until they're dead and younger people eventually take over. What I mean is, people who are young today, but who will take over in the future when they're older. But, even then, I know some young people who are pretty ignorant and think drugs are evil.

It's just a matter of getting the majority of the population to quit believing in ignorance and misinformation. Right now I think the majority still believes that drugs are evil. My mother is an example. She grew up in the 50's when they taught that kind of thing, and she thinks pot is as bad as heroin, and that poppy seeds and pods contain heroin. She once told me, "I can't believe you buy that heroin in the stores" when I bought poppy seeds one time. I mean, how ignorant can you get?


C'mon, I'm a child of an old guy....i mean everyone is a child of an older person. I would never think that everyone in gov. and LE are ALL stupid and/or evil. Big mistake. Did you look through the site Hiram sent. Seems like a few of 'em that have been in game and in DEA have seen the horrors caused by prohibition and are waking up some. When one narrow minded cop sees another respected, experienced cop fighting against this shit and thinking rational then maybe, just maybe, that narrow minded fuck will open his eyes too...That narrow minded cop will actually listen to the guy, while an ordinary drug taking citizen, if we made an organization like LEAP we'd be shrugged off, not given a second thought or worse..

Trust me, I'm as bitter about it as anybody but it's a start...I don't put much faith in anything either but if we don't open our minds then how can we expect them to open theirs?

And how is pods that much different than heroin?

[Narkotikon]

C'mon, I'm a child of an old guy....i mean everyone is a child of an older person. I would never think that everyone in gov. and LE are ALL stupid and/or evil. Big mistake. Did you look through the site Hiram sent. Seems like a few of 'em that have been in game and in DEA have seen the horrors caused by prohibition and are waking up some. When one narrow minded cop sees another respected, experienced cop fighting against this shit and thinking rational then maybe, just maybe, that narrow minded fuck will open his eyes too...That narrow minded cop will actually listen to the guy, while an ordinary drug taking citizen, if we made an organization like LEAP we'd be shrugged off, not given a second thought or worse..

Trust me, I'm as bitter about it as anybody but it's a start...I don't put much faith in anything either but if we don't open our minds then how can we expect them to open theirs?

And how is pods that much different than heroin?

I think you misunderstood me. I don't think all members of the government think like that. I just think a majority does, either because they really do think like that, or because it's politically advantageous for them too. I don't think all "old" people are like this, but I think a lot are because it's what they were taught.

There really isn't a difference between pods and heroin. I mean, one contains morphine and one contains another thing that gets metabolized back into morphine. I guess what I thought was funny is how my mother thought you could "buy" heroin in stores. I mean, if that were possible, I certainly wouldn't be buying seeds or pods.

I think this thing that Hiram posted is great. I just don't think the majority of LE is like that. But, you're right, it's a start at least. This is coming from an incredibly bitter person who has been two days off of Subs, and whose stomach is in knots, so you should take that into consideration too. When I"m sick I'm just a bitch. I want my dope and if I can't get it, watch out. But, yeah, what I posted wasn't meant to be contrary or anything. I do think there is a minority of good guys in government, just not a majority.

[Hiram]

Not everybody can face immorality day in and day out and keep quiet about it, even if it is their bread and butter. A few will always come to the realization that what they are trained to do is not ethical and will choose to not be indifferent to the problems. I know I couldn't sleep at night if I were responsible for arresting somebody for practically nothing and knowing that they are sitting in a cell somewhere for maybe years or decades away from their family and not having any chance of being a productive member of society, then knowing full well that if they do get out they will have a difficult time supporting themselves and maybe their families if they're still around, because of that question on every application......"have you ever committed a felony?"

[Raz]

If i remember rightly this organisation started out from a 26yr veteran cop, who worked his way up the chain of command....One operation he went on, undercover, to bust whatever....Well he pretended to be sick and convinced this guy to help him out....No way was the guy a junkie,felon.He was a clean,college kid....

What the kid did was score some dope for him, and yeah he got busted for being in the supply chain..But he was gaining absolutely nothing...Just doin the "sick cop " a favour.....When he was busted he just looked at the cop and said "come on man, i was just being a friend, you were sick and i was just helping yo out, being a friend is all".....

Somewhere along the line this pricked the cops fuckin conscience....The kid who scored for him wasnt no dope dealer, just knew someone who knew someone.And now for being a friend his fuckin life was ruined..............Just for being a friend!!:mad:

I heard this on bbc world service a couple yrs ago.....Lets hope this leap is the start of some forward thinking...Enlightenment has gotta start somewhere...

[george123]

I think it's just stigma and ignorance. The government is basically a bunch of old guys, and children of old guys. They just grew up when "Reefer Madness" was taught in schools. They were taught that drugs were evil, simple as that. And since most of those people control government, I don't think any change will happen until they're dead and younger people eventually take over. What I mean is, people who are young today, but who will take over in the future when they're older. But, even then, I know some young people who are pretty ignorant and think drugs are evil.

It's just a matter of getting the majority of the population to quit believing in ignorance and misinformation. Right now I think the majority still believes that drugs are evil. My mother is an example. She grew up in the 50's when they taught that kind of thing, and she thinks pot is as bad as heroin, and that poppy seeds and pods contain heroin. She once told me, "I can't believe you buy that heroin in the stores" when I bought poppy seeds one time. I mean, how ignorant can you get?

I don't think its as simple as that, I mean Clinton admitted to smoking weed, and Obama as well (not just weed). I think drugs will never be legal in the US because of its puritan roots, and the lack of any discussion on the subject by either party.

[Hiram]

I don't think its as simple as that, I mean Clinton admitted to smoking weed, and Obama as well (not just weed). I think drugs will never be legal in the US because of its puritan roots, and the lack of any discussion on the subject by either party.

Kinda like I didn't think we would have a non-white president in my lifetime. Whether or not I believe or support the next president's policies, I still find it amazing that the country as a majority has gotten passed a disease of the eye.

If the gov and majority can see evidence of how ending the prohibition can benefit them, then the seeds of change can at the very least be planted and hopefully will begin to take root. There is another generation that the torch will naturally be passed to and hopefully the next generation of politics can make the appropriate changes to our laws constitutionally.

[metric man]

Hey, thanks for the link. The libertarian club thing at the university of florida had a LEO from LEAP come and speak about drug prohibition a few months ago. I didn't attend because i didn't know about it until i read about it in the UF newspaper the next day.


It's just a matter of getting the majority of the population to quit believing in ignorance and misinformation. Right now I think the majority still believes that drugs are evil. My mother is an example. She grew up in the 50's when they taught that kind of thing, and she thinks pot is as bad as heroin, and that poppy seeds and pods contain heroin. She once told me, "I can't believe you buy that heroin in the stores" when I bought poppy seeds one time. I mean, how ignorant can you get?

A couple years ago I got caught stealing bottles (12) of poppy seeds from a major grocery store chain. The store didn't press charges, but just filed a trespass on me. Since i was under 18 the cop wouldnt let me leave without my mom coming to pick me up. He kept asking me what i was using all the seeds for and i kept telling him i was making lemon poppy seed cake. he radioed dispatch or someone and asked what the seeds could be used for and they told him i could EASILY make heroin from them and inject it. When my mom got there, he told her i was injecting heroin that i was making from the poppy seeds. FUCKING MORON.

[Narkotikon]

A couple years ago I got caught stealing bottles (12) of poppy seeds from a major grocery store chain. The store didn't press charges, but just filed a trespass on me. Since i was under 18 the cop wouldnt let me leave without my mom coming to pick me up. He kept asking me what i was using all the seeds for and i kept telling him i was making lemon poppy seed cake. he radioed dispatch or someone and asked what the seeds could be used for and they told him i could EASILY make heroin from them and inject it. When my mom got there, he told her i was injecting heroin that i was making from the poppy seeds. FUCKING MORON.


HAHA! Funny stuff! Yeah, I'm willing to say that you can make a form of injectible putty / tea from pods, and I guess seeds, but you'd need a lot of them, and even then the seeds have a large percentage of oil in them, and that wouldn't be great inject. You could also--if you had the right equipment--probably use the seeds / pods to extract morphine and then use AA to make heroin, but who in the hell has that equipment or the time or even the desire? I mean, I love pods and good seeds, but I have absolutely no desire to make heroin from it. For one, I wouldn't even know what I'd need to do that. Then I'd be too afraid I'd get caught. And lastly, I just think it would be a lot easier to simply drink the tea. I mean, heroin is great and all, but I don't love it that much. It's just much easier to steep some pods / seeds for a little bit, strain and drink.

See, this is what I mean. There's just so much fucking ignorance out there, and everytime organizations form to try to quell this kind of thing, they get a bad rap. The conservatives say "oh, they're just promoting drug use." I think everyone is misinterpreting my statement about old people in government. I don't think they're all like that, but I do think a majority is. I think they've been taught these ignorant things and have a sense of "drugs are evil" ingrained in them. Not all, but some, and even if they don't really believe that, I do think that they vote that way because it's politically advantageous for them too. I mean, yes, Clinton or Obama may have smoked pot, and they may have admitted it, but do you actually think they'd vote for legalization? Hell no. They like their government jobs too much. It's all about image in politics. You may be liberal, but on some things you just have to vote more like a conservative to stay there. I do believe that. I mean, who wouldn't? It would be stupid to make politics your career, and be liberal, and actually believe this kind of thing, like drugs should be legal, and then to talk about that and vote that way. Because you're right, we do live in a puritanical society, and I don't think the majority of the population is ready for drugs to be legal, or even want them to be legal, because they still think they're evil. Politicians are mostly going to cater to the majority, and that just isn't drug users.

[Opiyum]

Thanks Hiram. There's a lot of good information to read through on this site....gotta love that.
Like you I don't think decriminalization is such a far fetched idea anymore. I think it is something that I will see at least the begginings of in my lifetime. I think that the war on drugs itself is what is helping us move closer to a nation with legitimate drug dealers at the local grocery store. The more people who become exposed to drugs whether it's directly or indirectly in an intimate way, I think, the more people will realize that there is another course of action we can take to deal with drugs in our society.
I was looking for an organization to make a donation to before the tax year is up and I think I may have found it.