Maintenance Implants

[Deadfiend]

I was reading the post about Substitol " capsules contains 120 mg / 200 mg morphine sulphate pentahydrate used for replacement therapy in cases of drug addiction" in case you were not sure what it is, so I did not want to hijack Voyagers thread so I started a new one about Jurnista "Jurnista"a new revolutionary OROS 24 hour extended-release preparation of hydromorphone (the first 24h extended-release verion of Hydromorphone in the world) used also sometimes as a substitute for Methadone in the Opioid Substitution Maintenance Treatment when a person gets serious side effects from an opioid he/she is getting as a substitute, or when the treatment with the Methadone or the other opioids have failed" Just some info in case if anyone didn't know what it is, and I came along this info about the U.S testing other drugs for the use of Opioid Substitution Maintenance and pain Treatment, its about fucking about time. I hope They come up with something soon that works better then MMT, i'm not saying im not happy that we have MMT in the U.S. cause god only knows where we would be without it, but I have always felt that there should be more options to pick from if Subutex and MTT don't work for someone. Then I read about this Hydromorphone Implant that there working on in the U.S. for people that subs and MMT dont work for, so I hope something good comes out of it, I always pushed for the heroin maintenance program like they have in the U.K. to be tryed in the U.S., but in the back of my mind I always knew it would never happen here.It seems like along time ago I hear about them working on somekind of opioid implant before but the only thing that came from the was more people useing patchs where before there where not around much.


"There is wider and wider usage of Hydromorphone as a substitute for the illegal opioids in the Substitution Maintenance Treatments around the world, mostly because it gives much better quality of life to addicts, and it has much lower side effects profile than Methadone, and is much more easier for the organism, lacking the hypnotic and sometimes depressive side effects which Methadone has. Currently, there is an experimental manufacturing undergoing in the USA of the Polymeric Hydromorphone Implant which shall mainly be used in the Opioid Substitution Maintenance Treatment but also for a chronic pain, and which shall, after being implanted to a patient, give the steady every-day dosage of Hydromorphone for an extended period of time, maybe even for a few months. Thus the persons maintained with this polimeric veriosn of Hydromorphone shall not have a burden of going every day to a clinic for his/her doses, and it will also for them be much easier to travel around the world without caring about the legal restrictions for their opioid substitute in the country they are going to visit. Jurnista is currently still not spproved in the USA."

I really want to see what comes of this.

[blutuesday]

Cool. Thanks for the info.

We can only hope, huh?

[rockbottom]

shit we used to implant morphine pumps in cronic pain patients---they all loved it--and u could always up your dose:)

[Narkotikon]

My only thing with this is how cost-effective and how difficult is it going to be to adjust one's dose? Is it going to be like a pump, or is it going to be like implantable birth-control? First of all, anything that has to be implanted (even in an outpatient setting) is going to be more expensive than methadone. And lastly, if it's not a pump, then are there going to be more than one dose? I mean, how are you supposed to get your dose right? Say patient A needs less than patient B. Would patient B have to keep going back for more implants? How would it work? How long does it last too? It sounds like it only lasts a month or two, and you'd have to keep going back for more implants. I just think this would be a hasstle and very expensive.

I think more options is a great idea, but I don't like the idea of having to go for implants every time. I mean, in addition to the doctor's fee like you have to pay for Subs, you'd also have to pay for "implant" fees.

If they really want to help, they need to create more options that are cost effective. Once you're to the point of needing something like this, you just don't have a lot of money. Hell, MMT is even expensive. Yet people at clinics always bitch about how cheap it is compared to heroin or oxy abuse. Well, yes, per dose it is cheaper, but by the time you need to get into a clinic and get methadone, all your money is gone. And by that time, some people who need the help simply can't afford that (methadone), let alone this (an implant).

[SynthMorph]

It seems like there's always someone trying to control and make money from something natural that is rightfully yours. Doctors have become the gatekeepers of some natural products that are cheap and abundant. Instead of growing medicine in the garden, now I have to pay the doctor, the pharmacist and the drug company, what a fuckin scam! They make opium and heroin illegal yet methadone and other substitution medications are okay as long as the right people are making money from it- that's sickening.

How about we just reset the laws to the way they were before 1914 where everyone was treated like adults and could buy their opium/morphine/heroin for pennies a day? Natural law was the way back then not these manmade corrupt perversions of laws we have today. Everyone needs to start living by natural law again and totally ignore man made laws from now on. If no one gets hurt theres nothing wrong with it. I don't need licenses, registrations and taxes for every aspect of my life. I don't need the government's permission to ingest a natural plant substance that I am rightfully entitled to as a human being in the first place. We share this earth equally along with anything it produces.

[Voyager]

I was talking about that Hydromorphone implant as well, a few months ago in my Jurnista topic.
No, it won't be a pump.
The name says everything, "polimeric".
That means that the Hydromorphone will be matrixed and pressed within the implant, and there will be a special release system in it.
There will be a few strengths of that implant.
Patients won't have to go for a new implant.
The most implant last for 3 or more months.

I'm sure it will be cost-effective.
As for the dosing of Hydromorphone, it going like this (that's how it's done accross the world when they use slow-release Hydromorphone).
When switching from Methadone to slow 24h release Hydromorphone.
In case a person was on 100mg of Methadone a day.
First, you have to calcculate the strength of Methadone - Hydromorphone, and that it's that Hydromorphone is 3 times stronger on milligram basis that Methadone.
But than you take into account that Methadone lasts 4 times longer than Hydromorphone, and that also Hydromorphone's oral bioavailability is only like 25% to 30%, inlike Methadone which is round 95%.

So, you take the dose of Hydromorphone which is 3 times less than Methadone dose a person is getting, and then you multiply that dose of Hydromorphone by 2.
That way, we get 33mg (the 1/3 of Methadone dose), and then multiply it by 2, we get 66mg of Hydromorphone.
So, 66mg of 24h slow-release Hydromorphone (taken orally of course) daialy is equal to 100mg of Methadone a day.

Hope I helped !

[Deadfiend]

It seems like there's always someone trying to control and make money from something natural that is rightfully yours. Doctors have become the gatekeepers of some natural products that are cheap and abundant. Instead of growing medicine in the garden, now I have to pay the doctor, the pharmacist and the drug company, what a fuckin scam! They make opium and heroin illegal yet methadone and other substitution medications are okay as long as the right people are making money from it- that's sickening.

How about we just reset the laws to the way they were before 1914 where everyone was treated like adults and could buy their opium/morphine/heroin for pennies a day? Natural law was the way back then not these manmade corrupt perversions of laws we have today. Everyone needs to start living by natural law again and totally ignore man made laws from now on. If no one gets hurt theres nothing wrong with it. I don't need licenses, registrations and taxes for every aspect of my life. I don't need the government's permission to ingest a natural plant substance that I am rightfully entitled to as a human being in the first place. We share this earth equally along with anything it produces.


So very true you are, I really feel as something went wrong and I was born way later then I should have been, I like many would feel better fit some time around 1900-1930 per say. Just in time to make the beat in the 50's, but fuckit im where am at till I get this damm time machine this working...lol.

[SHELLEY]

So very true you are, I really feel as something went wrong and I was born way later then I should have been, I like many would feel better fit some time around 1900-1930 per say. Just in time to make the beat in the 50's, but fuckit im where am at till I get this damm time machine this working...lol.


old hippies are always telling me
that if i had been my age in the late 60s
i would have had MORE fun and gotten in LESS trouble
i would have been the happiest fuckin' flower child.... :)
except for the acid- FUCK acid

[marshalldylan1]

Acid be good.

Bad trip shelley?

[i8op8s]

Acid be good.

Bad trip shelley?
Mmmmmm ACID..... :p:D

[oxy kid]

Mmmmmm ACID..... :p:D

acid, acid, acid....

Love some good hits of southern acid.

[rockbottom]

i go with mmmmm Acid also-----yes i've seen God

[dharma bum]

Seeing god would be proof he exists, which would take faith out of the equation. Without faith you have nothing, no belief in god anyway. So god showing his face would prove he did not exist.

[SHELLEY]

i'd rather pull my eye out with a melon baller than take acid
because at least if i pull my eye out myself
then it will only happen once
while with acid it will happen over and over and over again...

[Indy]

Seeing god would be proof he exists, which would take faith out of the equation. Without faith you have nothing, no belief in god anyway. So god showing his face would prove he did not exist.

'' If you meet the Buddha on your way, kill the Buddha! ''

[Voyager]

Come on people, don't blaspheme here, show some respect to the Creator of the Universe, who also created and gave to us all these wanderfull drugs we like to take so much.
Hey, doe sanybody here like NOFX ?
They are one of the best punk bands around, and they are not that trash-like punk band who only play 3 riffs over and over in one song, thyose guys really can play and have a damn good music and lyrics.
Here is their song called "HEROJUANA".

Light the match, burn the flower.
Leave behind all the wrong.
Why be sad when happiness can be bought for a little more then free ?
Modern day prohibition !
Are we men ?
Are we children ?
At what age can I choose how to live ?
The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs !
Haven't we learned our lesson ?
The corner store sells finer scotch !
But who's got uncut powder ?
We just want what is ours !
Dignity !
If GOD created plants and buds that I find and abuse,
Then who the fuck are you to judge me ?!