Rx Heroin in Switzerland????

[pain-pateint]

http://www.breitbart.com/images/common/dot.gif Swiss likely to approve prescription heroin:cool: http://www.breitbart.com/images/common/dot.gif
By ELIANE ENGELER
Associated Press Writer http://www.breitbart.com/images/common/dot.gif GENEVA (AP) - Dr. Daniele Zullino keeps glass bottles full of white powder in a safe in a locked room of his office. Patients show up each day to receive their treatment in small doses handed through a small window.
Then they gather around a table to shoot up, part of a pioneering Swiss program to curb drug abuse by providing addicts a clean, safe place to take heroin produced by a government-approved laboratory.
The program has been criticized by the United States and the U.N. narcotics board, which said it would fuel drug abuse. But governments as far away as Australia are beginning or considering their own programs modeled on the system, which is credited with reducing crime and improving the health and daily lives of addicts.
Swiss voters are expected to make the system permanent Sunday in a referendum prompted by a challenge from conservatives.
The heroin program has won wide support within Switzerland since it was begun 14 years ago to eliminate scenes of large groups of drug users shooting up openly in parks that marred Swiss cities in the 1980s and 1990s.
Zullino's office, part of the Geneva University Hospitals, is one of 23 such centers in Switzerland.
Patients among the nearly 1,300 addicts whom other therapies have failed to help take doses carefully measured to satisfy their cravings but not enough to cause a big high. Four at a time inject themselves as a nurse watches.
In a few minutes most get up and leave. Those who have jobs go back to work.
"Heroin prescription is not an end in itself," said Zullino, adding that the 47 addicts who come to his office receive a series of additional treatments, such as therapy with a psychiatrist and counseling by social workers.
"The aim is that the patients learn how to function in society," he said, adding that after two to three years in the program, one-third of the patients start abstinence-programs and one-third change to methadone treatment.
"Thanks to this policy we don't have open drug scenes anymore," said Andreas Kaesermann, a spokesman for the Social Democrat Party, part of the coalition government.
A mid-November survey of 1,209 voters by the respected gfs.bern institute indicate the program will be easily approved, with 63 percent of voters favoring it compared with 21 opposed. The poll had a margin of error of 2.9 percentage points.
Health insurance pays for the bulk of the program, which costs 26 million Swiss francs ($22 million) a year. All residents in Switzerland are required to have health insurance, with the government paying insurance premiums for those who cannot afford it.
"It's wrong that the health insurance pays for this," said Alain Hauert, spokesman for the right-wing Swiss People's Party. He said the state should invest more money into prevention and law enforcement.
Crimes committed by heroin addicts have dropped 60 percent since the program began in 1994, according to the Federal Office of Public Health says.
And, Zullino said, patients reduce consumption of other narcotics once they start the heroin program and suffer less from psychiatric disorders.
But, he added, "the idea has never been to liberalize heroin. It's considered a medicine and used as such."
Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
http://www.breitbart.com/images/common/dot.gif

[Duckfeet]

Yep: all these programs seem to have positive results, not just for junkies, but for the public...I actually emailed the swiss program, after finding that maybe their residency requirements might be less strict, than say, Holland, where they feared they would be inundated w/junkies from other parts of Europe and abroad...

But, sadly, Switzerland too, had to have fairly strict "locals only" requirements, as these governments aren't stupid: Switzerland itself *got* in such a dilemma partly thru it's famous "needle park" experiments, and Europeans are much more mobile between their neighboring countries than we are...

Mostly, now, when I read about these programs from Europe, from England, and even from our neighbor, Canada, I just sigh...the world has changed much since England's fairly well known willingness to allow doctors to prescribe heroin, and even cocaine, to addicts, up until their were too many young addicts, too much diversion to the streets, and, yeah, too many yanks and canadians and others piling over to get on what was a lifesaver to any addict w/enough money and will to move there...

The other problem--for many of us with "pasts"...is that the online world, just in the last, oh, 10-15 years, has made it just about impossible for us to ditch our criminal baggage and go "start over" somewhere else...I tried my self in Canada, and now would be even more trouble if I made the attempt...

If I were taking a shot as a foreigner--rather than a local--I'd probably just try England, since--in spite of it all--they seem to be the most compassionate towards desperate people who mean no harm...but again, between the serious terrorist thread all western countries now face, and the fact any country who takes in an admitted heroin addict is pushing their luck, I'd probably be better served just going to Colombia, which is closer, and tho they don't provide *legal* heroin, they at least have decriminalized addiction on smaller scale...and I feel my online past would be less acessible than it is in western countries...or northern countries, in this case haha....

Oh well, won't happen here...we're too puritan...maybe if we'd had some sanity, and stayed a colony of England I might had a shot...nahhh...;-)

[nycjrt]

...
The other problem--for many of us with "pasts"...is that the online world, just in the last, oh, 10-15 years, has made it just about impossible for us to ditch our criminal baggage and go "start over" somewhere else...I tried my self in Canada, and now would be even more trouble if I made the attempt...
I.;-)
this is what bothers me most about their outlook toward assisting addicts- empathy/compassion issues aside, as a society/lawmakers doesn't it just make practical sense to assist those with a 'past', who may be more likely to fall back into their old ways if/when their back is to the wall? for addicts whose only past actions are a direct result of needing $ for their doc, by providing them with this type of assistance they are basically guaranteeing they will stay law abiding citizens...oh well best wishes to those who live in more progressive civilised societies where these programs are taking place, and are LUCKY enough to get in- hopefully one day the US will catch on:rolleyes: btw Duckfeet for sheer tenacity you deserve special, direct entry into one of these programs- from what i've read on here, you are doing EVERYTHING you can to keep your shit together and not go back down some of those darker alleys- your experiences/insights are inspirational, thank you for taking the time to write this stuff down.

[InfectedMushroom]

Because the US must act "superior" and pretend like drugs are not a big problem. There are so many positives to these types of programs that its ridiculous the types of hoops people have to jump through for just some methadone/subs...

[Duckfeet]

Worst part is that private methadone clinics--just like private prisons we now have--have a serious financial stake in keeping it only methadone or subs...as they know that many of us incorrigibles woulda jumped on heroin maintenance a long time ago...and the prisons would have thinned out considerably too, since we wouldn't have needed to steal to get what we need...


Because the US must act "superior" and pretend like drugs are not a big problem. There are so many positives to these types of programs that its ridiculous the types of hoops people have to jump through for just some methadone/subs...

[pharmboy]

And of course Parents Against Drugs ( Parents Against Anyone NOT like Me )

are against approval of this. They want us to just say no. Quit , simple , just

do it.

[Voyager]

Bravo for Switzerland !

[Raz]

Being computer stoopid i dont know how to post the link, but if anyone wants to look at this on the ol ned kelly(telly, tv) it is on the bbc.co.uk website.....

The Dr gives a good account of himself and says these clients are suffering from a chronic relapsing diesese.And theres no fun in having to go to a clinic twice a day to inject and the image of heroin users is of"Junkie, loser yada yada.AND the number of new users has fallen in swizterland....

See this will always be the publics perception of people like us.And Dr's have to (in public speaking) reinforce this image to keep his programme goin....Fuck , imagine a group of junkies getting free dope and actually enjoying it!!.......

Its like "normal" peoples perception is warped by SUFFER JUNKIE SUFFER....

[GetinLow]

Yea, I am always surprised to hear some of the reaction from some of the groups against the ..... .....RX Heroin program in Switzerland . Ther was a lady from "Parents against drugs" group..... and she says [I would rather have My Son or Daughter die than have to live with them getting [ Prescription Heroin] :confused: ! I am just glad... I am not that parents kid :mad: . SHE IS THE SICK ONE IN MY BOOK ! Cant wait for the vote ... wish I could Vote on something like that ...sounds hopeful :) ! Anybody know when the results will be known or how to find the results quick ? Thanks for the Info ;
............ GetiLow

[ouch]

WOW, that is truely SICK GetinLow..... who in their right mind would rather have their child DIE than have a problem? Good god, that just really hit me hard reading that. That lady should be ashamed of herself for saying things like that. You are completely correct, SHE is the sick one...

[Duckfeet]

The swiss and other studies of heroin maintenance are readily available w/simple google searches...sometimes putting in "diamorphine" rather than "heroin" helps, but I found everything, including emails to hospitals providing this service, w/basic searches....

But until *doctors* stand-up, we are doomed in this country...in other countries docs often make a little less money than here in the U.S., but they often have more respect, and that is *one* of the reasons they couldn't shove quite as much of the *anti* drug propoganda down throats in England...docs wouldn't tolerate quite as much gov't interference as they do here...at least not for a long time...I think that might be getting worse, over there too, tho...

But most people--my parents, most parents--have just been so saturated with propoganda that they cannot understand this problem at all, and see it in totally moralistic terms, as we once did alcoholism (alkie bad, non-alkie good)...my own father, when I told him I was a heroin addict, and needed either to get help, or I would be in terrible shape, ran in his room and brought out his shotgun and suggested I kill myself...that was his view of it, and I never saw him again, and he killed his own self--end stage alcoholism, IMO--several years later...so it's a very messy subject, and I feel my own life has been forfeit, not to heroin-addiction (which is a problem, true) but to the fact that my need for heroin was always considered a *criminal* activity...I've lost all to this notion: love, freedom, health...and sometimes even my good humor, which thankfully, I think, is mostly genetic...


Yea, I am always surprised to hear some of the reaction from some of the groups against the ..... .....RX Heroin program in Switzerland . Ther was a lady from "Parents against drugs" group..... and she says [I would rather have My Son or Daughter die than have to live with them getting [ Prescription Heroin] :confused: ! I am just glad... I am not that parents kid :mad: . SHE IS THE SICK ONE IN MY BOOK ! Cant wait for the vote ... wish I could Vote on something like that ...sounds hopeful :) ! Anybody know when the results will be known or how to find the results quick ? Thanks for the Info ;
............ GetiLow

[Voyager]

Really disturbing !
Maaaan, all of this is really fuckin' disturbing to me and to my brain, when I read Duckfeet's posts about his struggles, when I read some other stuff...it's so unreal to me...I mean, I feel like I'm born in the wrong age.
But we're all in this same shit together.

You know what...I think that at one point in the future, the humanity will look back to all this drug prohibition and to all it's victims who were most of them in fact very positive and very intelligent people, but who suffered trough most of their lives, being evicted, gettin' locked up in jails, and the whole humanity will look at it as "one of the stupid mistakes of human existence".
The humanity will see it as we now see the Christian Inquisition period in which a lotta very wise people were burned at piles, killed, tortured, etc.

The time will come when the new generations born after the year 2000. will be parents, doctors, politicians, and I just hope that they will bring in some changes.

I mean...I just hope that it will end soon...

And if they cannot agree to have Diamorphine maintenance available, because it's illegal substance in most countries, they can at least give us Hydromorphone !
I will be very satisfied even with Morphine.
I mean, when you take Heroin, as soon as it crosses the brain barrier most of it is converted to Morphine, so it's actually Morphine which kicks in, the difference is that it just has a faster onset of action because it's a diacetylated ester of Morphine in the beginning.

I dunno...

[Angelwolf13]

finally saw this news reported on fox. because of the obvious reduction in crime, etc that comes with legalization, switzerland intelligently voted for the free heroin for addicts but, strangely, voted NO on legalizing marijuana. well, at least their cp patients do not have to suffer the stigma of evil narcotic relief like in the u.s. at least, i can't imagine so.

[pharmboy]

+ Yes Swiss Voted FOR

scripted Heroin ! +

[Angelwolf13]

just saw the story on abc news as well. so the network stations seem to be reporting on this too. GOD BLESS SWITZERLAND!!!!!!!! may you be a beacon to the rest of the country, make that the rest of the WORLD!!!!!! governments, are you paying attention???? i pray this is only the beginning!

[GOLD N DIEMONDS]

+ 1 Switzerland - finally thinking for themselves

[nhop]

I used to live in Switzerland, and last visited about 6-7 years ago. In Berne, heroin was easy to obtain, and was sold in two areas, one a cafe, and the other a spot near the central train station. In both cases, the police were well aware of what was going on but tolerated these activities so long as there were no other problems. One thing that did surprise me was the amount of heroin smoking going on in public, mostly taking place in the park leading down to the river. The steps of this path were also popular with families, tourists, etc, so I was surprised to see so much chasing going on along this route.

My friend was a heavy cannabis smoker, and he would go to a shop to buy his weed legally. (or so i thought...) This shop also sold all sorts of related stuff like pipes, bongs, etc, but also sold little baby mj plants which you could grow. I am surprised that the cannabis legalization bid failed, as it seemed (at least 6 yrs ago) to be de facto legal anyhow.

Now I wish I had obtained a Swiss passport, but I cannot change the past...If nothing else, I am hopeful that this decision and the positive data that it will generate will at least encourage other countries to change their approach. In fact this seems to have been happening already. As far as the USA goes, I am not optimistic...

[pharmboy]

Yes me niether , I was very disapointed to hear that Biden was the one who

created the first Drug Czar. If he wants to make amends for all the pricks

we have had to put up with since he could nominate Andrew Weil as Drug

Czar or that Siegal guy.

[Duckfeet]

Now *that* would be something...or ask Ron Paul to do it hahaha....might be hope for us all, then...but I know better...to much money and religious crap tied up w/our drug policies...it's so unconstitutional...our right to property is *fundamental* and not for congress to decide...and if I don't own my own body then what the fuck are we talking about...even Thomas Jefferson got that...once the state decided "it knew best" our country has been doomed...the founders were right: their biggest fear wasn't us being fuckups...it was government getting too big for itself...our 1st original sin was slavery...a man's body is *his* property, no one elses...and yet the government now sees fit to tell me what I can--and cannot--put in my body...and to call it a "disease" just lets them sneak around the constitution by trying to "help me..." thanks a lot for all the help, u fuckers: I'm not sick, and I'm not a criminal: I'm a free man in a repressive country....



Yes me niether , I was very disapointed to hear that Biden was the one who

created the first Drug Czar. If he wants to make amends for all the pricks

we have had to put up with since he could nominate Andrew Weil as Drug

Czar or that Siegal guy.

[Naomi]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7755674.stm
the video & article i published on my facebook. got 18 comments debating it so cant be too bad. i wish i had been give this and a programme to get back into my full-time education/work (thats just personally what i think would be best for me).

[rachamim18]

The thing that I love about the Swiss is that they even have the programme in prison! Now, if you MUST do the time, that IS the only way to do it. I thought Rikers' KEEP Program (sic) (in NYC) was the way to go. Imagine going to Medical every 8 hours for a nice injection of Rx heroin! I remember seeing the materiel on it and this bloke with no veins was allowed to IM it in his bun, talk about accomodation.

Methadone in Rikers was fine and all but the waiting killed you. Jail is jail, always sitting around but Rikers is smart. They dose between 7 and 9 PM (unless you are late coming in from court at which time you dose at around 3 AM) so that all the junkies get their dose and nod out and on to sleep, instead of grooving like they would be in Switzerland.

On the Swiss...My wife loves the country, we both have family there, and I could easily move there (meaning she would be all for it) but I could never gain citizenship there, or even Reisdence so why bother? Anyway, since I am on morphine maintenance, and about to get on hydromorphone maintenance I have no reason to whine.

The US is crooked to the bone (as if anyone needs me to say it). After all that hand wringing they give the crowd Subutex/Suboxone!? And then, 9 times out of 10 you have to hit up a private MD with a 6 month waiting list who will not take insurance!!! That is progress? Yeah, they did ease some methadone regs, like the Medical Maintenance clause, and the 6 week take homes for non-Medical Maintenance AFTER TWO YEARS! As well, they raised the cap on maximum dosages across the board but they have yet to realise, or at least acknowledge that there are plenty of other substances that could do the job even better.

Little old DHC (dihydrocodeine, not to be confused with dihydrocodeinone). When I had that massive #4 habit in Cambodia I was quite easily able to wean myself off with 1600 mgs of DHC (Dicodin 60 mg ER caplets), 50 mgs Promethazine (I believe that was the dosage), and 20 mgs diazepam (Valium). As far as the Benzo, I have to add that it is suicidal to take it in conjunction with either an antihistamine and most certainly with an opiate/opioid but I had a massive habit and needed to work it to the bone.

The point though, is that even without the Promethazine boosting the conversion to dihydromorphine (DHC metabolises like its cousin codeine, into the real goody, codeine into morphine, DHC into DHM as I said), DHC affords both relief to a very high degree, all day long and then some at the right dosage, as well as having a major advantage over methadone and bupe in that it actually offers euphoria if you are able to feel euphoria.

They have used DHC in Austria, the UK, Canada, and a couple of other places very successfully so if any of you are considering an option, and can exercise THAT option perhaps you might consider it.

[oxy kid]

Let's move to Switzerland!

[Duckfeet]

So Rach, is my view correct? I had emailed some program over there in Switzerland, and my impression is that--like all the others--*residency* requirements are pretty strict...I too had read about the prison experiment, and thought Switzerland might be worth a shot...but anyway, most of the countries I find that *do* have heroin-maintenance are trying to avoid an inundation of foreigners...often from neighboring countries...I guess if one had dual citizenship, maybe...but I don't have that anywhere...England once was a mecca for junkies, but that was long ago, when just about any doc could prescribe it, before the clincs and methadone and such...

Oh well, who knows, maybe by the time I'm 90 here in the U.S....but I doubt it....I"m betting that if *anywhere* it might be Mexico or Colombia...Canada wouldn't let me in, and they have *good* database fo felons...which means the world will, soon enough....

The thing that I love about the Swiss is that they even have the programme in prison!

<snip>

They have used DHC in Austria, the UK, Canada, and a couple of other places very successfully so if any of you are considering an option, and can exercise THAT option perhaps you might consider it.

[rachamim18]

Duck: Well yeah, the Swiss almost voted in ahrdline conservatives whose campaig posters had 3 white sheep kicking the shi% out of a black sheep (actual fact). So...the attitude is kind of against foreigners at all per se and then THAT type of foreigner, well...I mean, if Amsterdam is finally cleaning up it does not look hopeful. However, do like me! Morphine is just as good with 2/3rds increase! If you maintain at 100 mg pure heroin, 300 mg morphine will do the job! Heroin after all is nothing but a delivery system for heroin, as I so often say. Stop beating yourself up over countries that would not have you.

You and I are in very similar circumstances after all. SE Asia does not give a rat's as^ comes through as long as their colour is Green. When I was in the States for the 4 months or whatever it was this year I had to switch back to methadone. The US has funky Custom's regs with regards to importing Rx. i know you go to Mexico but i enter via airports in NYC where they follow it by the book.

50 dosages units or less, medicine in US Pharmocopiea, IF a brand manufactured in US you CANNOT import, must have value less than 400 US Dollars, blah, blah, blah. I brought in 1500 mgs with a 400 mg a day habit. I had to hustle to a clinic for sure. got on on my 2nd day though, not really an issue in NYC if you can pay or have insurance. The point though is that once again I got to make a very close subjective comparison between MMT and Morphine Maintenance and I would not trade morphine for all the tea in China.

If you really feel that you want a euphoric opiate/opioid put the sough away, buy the ticket, and do it. The most difficult part really is breaking the inertia but once you jus tdo it what else is there? You could get a TOEFL certificate and teach part time, if your checks are straight you can live like a king without doing anything and if you get either SSI/SS and/or a VA check they have direct deposit in Philippine banks along with special long term Retiree Visas. If you choose another country like Cambodia it is a bit different but still easy living.

[Duckfeet]

Oh you're right on all this...my problem is that back when I was realizing all this, I had read everything I could, and NAOMI seemed to be going pretty good up in Canada w/heroin maintenance, and it *seemed* like I had a pretty got shot at it, if I could get/fake residency for six months near INSITE, and so I flew up there, throwing all my money and determination into that move...and I had forgotten constant trucker warnings *not* to try Canadian Border as they have really good database...and I did get nailed up in Vancouver, and sent back to U.S. and had to sign papers, all kinds of shit, saying I wouldn't try it again w/out permission from ministry, all that...could get in serious trouble even if I did sneak in...but that was my big attempt at getting on opiate I could deal with...

And another year of dope, and fighting it, all that, and my money was gone, and other constraints keep me here: stepfather 94, mother 98, kind of a drag, but whatcha gonna do...

So now it's more a "what if" scenario...I believe I need to stay nearby as long as my mother is alive, unless I get really junky coldhearted again...which has happened, and could easily happen again...

But, in any case, I do appreciate you taking the time and trouble to inform me what my chances are, and where I might stand a better chance...I had read your other post on PI, and was still digesting all that...I had forgotten since I hadn't heard from you in a while your situation over there, w/respect to 'bad guys' and such, and u seem to bear up pretty good, and I'm glad of it...

I've been off methadone...all opiates, actually, about a month and a half...I always had problems, myself, w/methadone, and just started a slow detox...and just kept detoxing, I guess...but I also knew that most of the lightweight drugs here, that Veteran's Hospitals now are restriced to prescribing, no longer touched me at all...and tar, well, u know all about tar: mostly the horrors it did to my remaining veins....

So, yes, my hope is still to be somewhere I can avail myself of opiates I prefer...but for now, I guess I'm "dug in..."

Thanks Rach: always good hearing from u...


Duck: Well yeah, the Swiss almost voted in ahrdline conservatives whose campaig posters had 3 white sheep kicking the shi% out of a black sheep (actual fact). So...the attitude is kind of against foreigners at all per se and then THAT type of foreigner, well...I mean, if Amsterdam is finally cleaning up it does not look hopeful. However, do like me! Morphine is just as good with 2/3rds increase! If you maintain at 100 mg pure heroin, 300 mg morphine will do the job! Heroin after all is nothing but a delivery system for heroin, as I so often say. Stop beating yourself up over countries that would not have you.

You and I are in very similar circumstances after all. SE Asia does not give a rat's as^ comes through as long as their colour is Green. When I was in the States for the 4 months or whatever it was this year I had to switch back to methadone. The US has funky Custom's regs with regards to importing Rx. i know you go to Mexico but i enter via airports in NYC where they follow it by the book.

50 dosages units or less, medicine in US Pharmocopiea, IF a brand manufactured in US you CANNOT import, must have value less than 400 US Dollars, blah, blah, blah. I brought in 1500 mgs with a 400 mg a day habit. I had to hustle to a clinic for sure. got on on my 2nd day though, not really an issue in NYC if you can pay or have insurance. The point though is that once again I got to make a very close subjective comparison between MMT and Morphine Maintenance and I would not trade morphine for all the tea in China.

If you really feel that you want a euphoric opiate/opioid put the sough away, buy the ticket, and do it. The most difficult part really is breaking the inertia but once you jus tdo it what else is there? You could get a TOEFL certificate and teach part time, if your checks are straight you can live like a king without doing anything and if you get either SSI/SS and/or a VA check they have direct deposit in Philippine banks along with special long term Retiree Visas. If you choose another country like Cambodia it is a bit different but still easy living.

[rachamim18]

No problemo. Good to hear that you are close with your mujm, that is always important and too many people could not care less, etc. Family IS all important (although to be fair aslot of addicts/users are estranged not by choice, etc).

Per Canada. You know, I am a Persona Non Grata there and it is funny because i own buisneeses in the fuc%ing country. My Clan used to own Metro Bakery in Montreal which was , when we had it, the largest commercial bakery in the country. You would think they would not give a rat's as# about convictions from years ago but they are as bad as the US.

It has been my experience that certain countries emulate the US and when doing so muck it up alot worse. I live in one such place. "War on Drugs?" I remember tha poor peasant who happened to own some uncultivated jungle, they found 4 cannabis palnts , all under 1 meter, and he got the Big Needle! When they pronounced "Death" the poor man literally fainted right there. The guy was elderly, this country was one of the largest LEGAL Hemp producers in the world back in the day and the plant is all over the place. Uncultivated they regularly find more than 200,000 plants full grown on a single hectare and this guy was executed!!!

But...to digress...At least they have not blocked people such as ourselves from entering (the economy needs all the Western input it can get) and so...Canada though? The worst it has seen was 79 Cents on the USD and so they continue to do what they want.

i know you are close to the country geographically, it is very similar in BC culturally and you would not have to learn a new language but you speak Spanish and many langauges here are Spanish Creoles, in fact i am going to go eat some deliyiso lechon manok in a buit.

You see the spell it phonetically which is even better if you cannot read proper Spanish, and it is true that words like "lechon" are used differently (here it means "BBQ" and not "roast pig" which would be "Lechon Baboi") so that it is kind of funky but interesting. You would have no problem and it has alot of perks as well.

In the end though it is a huge world and you have many options. Me? If I did not have a Filipina wife, and all the connections here, etc. I would set up in PP in Cambodia, without a doubt. To each their own though. I do love though, being able to walk into a Rx without a Script and say give me 400 mgs of Oxycontin please and walk out the door in 30 seconds happy as a clam! Philippines, for me, is the next best thing, pay 300 Pesos (just under 7 bucks US at the moment) for the Script and then drive 6 hours each way but things could be alot worse, right?

Very suprised to hear you finally got off ot the methadone , I figured you to be like me (hahahaha) but glad you are opiate/opioid free for 6 odd weeks. If anything, for the glorious feeling of sating starving Receptors after the break. At this stage duck the brain is what it is but if you choose "drug-free," and make a go of it I am also happy for you because everyone should have the life they choose. Me though? I wonder how you can do it (in the US anyway since thre is so much heroin there and MMT is so accessible in Cali).


I went 8.5 days in 2007 and then drank Pod Tea and the OTC Tramadols they have here (50 mg caps which I of course maxed out at 400 mgs a swallow) (which did nothing but constrict my pupils and give me the psychological boost I needed to wait until I found my MD. this last trip back from the States I took 14 bottles back with me and still have them. I went 3 days (THAT was a struggle) and then lovingly cradled my cup of water as my beautiful wife prepared my 200 mgs of morphine (my "Clean" dosageorally). Those 3 days of course were not hard physically, just a mindfuc% but enough about moi...

Remember Duck, if things get hairy again you can always make that move but enough pounding the nail...

[Duckfeet]

Yep: Canada has a better record of my felonies than the U.S. does, for some reason...they have every arrest going back to my first--in Boston, of all places--in 1969, in the Army...and I have shootings and all kinds of shit I actually beat, it reads horrible...but the lady in Vancouver Airport took her time reading it out loud to me, and it's kind of funny: I'm in a Brooks Brothers Sportcoat, look like anybody's old Uncle...and of course, being a junky, I was kind of proud too,as the guys next to me who had also gotten caught were for much lighter weight shit...dui's and stuff they hadn't admitted to...I started feeling like a serious gangster...haha

but anyway, I had to sign papers to get sent back to U.S., and those papers I still have, say that if I *do* attempt to get back in to Canada, u know, sneak in WA border or something, I would be in serious legal trouble etc....so that party is over...the computer world is making "taking off for new territory" more difficult for felons...unless, of course, one gets new i.d., which I'm thinking on, but have little experience...but I have a cousin who would be around my age who was shot dead many many years ago...we'll see...

And I don't think I ever figured I would "stay off" opiates...if I were in area where there was consistent good supply of real heroin, as opposed to tar, I wouldn't have gotten off this, or if I had actually gotten good pain clinic thing going, but best I could get was either methadone pills, norco, or morphine ER, none of which does for me, anything like good heroin...

I just kept detoxing slowly, as I have such problems w/oral methadone, and once I got down to 10mg, I figure why not?, and kept going...and yes, life without opiates is "different"...it has it's pleasures, which for me is swimming...which I hate on dope, but anyway...I think the knowledge that my only real hope of getting good opiates lies elsewhere, actually helps me stay off the local crap...now if if the Mexican druglords ever started bringing in good shit over here, or the pharmacias down there lightened up....then I'd probably be singing a different song altogether....

[dharma bum]

And of course Parents Against Drugs ( Parents Against Anyone NOT like Me )

are against approval of this. They want us to just say no. Quit , simple , just

do it.


My pops MUST be a member....

[LorTabitha]

I did get nailed up in Vancouver, and sent back to U.S. and had to sign papers, all kinds of shit, saying I wouldn't try it again w/out permission from ministry...

Have you ever thought about/looked into getting permission from the Ministry to re-enter? You never know - stranger things have happened and you definitely deserve a break at least ONCE, ya know?!

[nick]

Have you ever thought about/looked into getting permission from the Ministry to re-enter? You never know - stranger things have happened and you definitely deserve a break at least ONCE, ya know?!

No point,they're shutting the programme in Canada,which sucks.

DF bro,NO ONE running a diamorphine programme is gonna say "sure,come on over." No one wants drug tourists.The only way to make it work is get to the country get in to treatment and find some good advocacy service.It's not impossible,but it is a long shot and don't forget,as I told you before,diamorphine is not a cure all for all our problems,in the end it's just another habit.

[Duckfeet]

I' ve thought about it, but my main reason for going was because I thought--at the time--I had a fairly good chance of establishing residency, living near INSITE, and getting at least a chance at heroin or dilaudid maintenance...

And that program has pretty much run it's course, as far as new entries are concerned...and if I tried w/ministry--and they gave me paperwork saying that was my best chance...I'd probably have to tell them the truth, that my main reason for going up there was to attempt to get on heroin-maintenance...and I really just don't see it happening...perhaps I got discouraged too easily, but in this area, anyway, a bit of pessimism is usually healthy, as rarely do they want an admitted heroin addict/felon in *any* country...as they know what the odds are...

And, naturally, after that, I spent all my saving on dope...and then some...so right now I figure best shot is to just live rather spartan, and pay off my debts, and then I'll try travel again...that is, if I don't twist off again...which is any opiate addict's curse...we just never know...

But thanks for thinking of me: and I've had plenty of breaks, to be honest...people have always liked me, tried to help me, from my youth on(family, judges, cops, wives, friends, etc...)...the trouble is, neither they--nor me, to be honest--really understand opiate addiction...but whatever it is, it has stuck with me longer than anything else....so I just take it a day at a time, watch what develops, try to keep a cheeful attitude about it...

Hope all goes will with you, as I know you still have surgery coming...

Have you ever thought about/looked into getting permission from the Ministry to re-enter? You never know - stranger things have happened and you definitely deserve a break at least ONCE, ya know?!

[rachamim18]

Duck: "Canada having a better copy of Duck's record than the US does.": Ironic, true but then Canada gets it directly from Homeland Security whereas in the US the only time THAT would be accessed about you would be coming or going on International flights or if applying for a federal civil service job.

After 9/11 I had a very difficult time. When I was younger, in Israel I belonged to a political party that ended up being banned and then labled, by the US, a terrorist organisation (KACH). I fly a few times a yerar, and it really put a damper in my life. I have , in the US and Israelm crminal attorneys on retainer but I had to retain an Immigration Lawyer of all things to fight this shi%. I went, closed hearing with the Secrecy Act nonsense and the wholething and was finally, with the Israeli Embassy's assitance allowed to fly on both my passports (dual US/Israeli). The point though, is that like you only Homeland Security has a complete record of my life. They have EVERYTHING.

Over here, there are different types of status. Married to a citizen I could apply for a specialised status, but I am unable to because it would require 2 original copies of a Police Clearance which in American's case would mean FBI at least, or Homeland S. Either way I am knocked out of the game. I am here on my US Passport so i cannot then get a Police CLearance from Israel (not knowing anyway if my indiscretions there would show up on it). It is a real pain. I have to go to Immigration every 6 weeks or so, or send someone for me, and pay the money.

You know, now it is out of the question but if you had thought about it you should have flown to Anchorage and then just walked in through the Yukon. It is a hassle but no problem. There are also towns in Washington State where you just cross the street and you are on Canadian soil. Oh well. I always wonder about those morons smuggling cannabis and ephedrine through the Crossings in Washington and Vermont. How do their minds work? Just truck it up to the Yukon, walk it over yourself or whatever, and then ship it down into the 48. VERY simple.

You are right though, about computers. I have been thinking the same exact thing. It is scary how small the world is getting.

Getting new ID is also getting more difficult, meaning IDs that will actually pass. You can just walk into MacArthur Park in LA and get "Chuecos" but if you want it to pass a traffic stop or better yet a Border Crossing you have to do your homework. It is an effort but definitely doable.

"Methadone tabs., Norco, or morphine ER...": Yep. Well Norco is a joke. That is for the Poppy Tea crowd (maybe get some hatemail over that dig at the Tea crowd but it is true). Morphine is great but ER is a pain. It is such a pain for injections, and if you take it orally it is also a drag. I am so lucky that this country has a reasonably priced IR with no crap in it. the only thing I can say bad about it is the dye. 10 mg tabs are a dusky green, 20s are dark pink, and 30s which I usually get are light pink. Drop 1 cc of water on it and you do not even have to shake, just like Knoll Dilaudids. 45 US for 100 tabs (3000 mgs total). Pretty good deal.

Methadone is a drag. It kills me when people talk about it having euphoria, but let me stop before I get even MORE hate mail.

You hate swimming on dope? Man, I cannot understand that. We have a couple of places here, they call them "resorts" but they are nothing at all like what one from the West thinks when picturing a "resort." However, both have ice cold mountain springs (Diwata Mountains) and olympic sized pools. You pay a pittance, like 80 US cents yto go all day, and like another 80 US cents for a cabana (not Western cabana ) and you swim all day, barbecue, etc. I love it. Soemtimes we go to the beach in Lianga in Surigao del Sur Province. the village is about 1 hours over dirst roads but it is beuatiful. I have photos from there on my BL Gallery but will try to post a couple here perhaps. The water at low tide is about meter (almost 3 feet) deep. It is very warm, nothing nasty 9sharks are kept out by the reef), and we go all day. Barbecuing (they love to do that here ), I always end up nodding out at the beach but not at the resort.

Now though, it is what they call "cold" here hahaha. It is only 72 or 73 F! It is the end of Monsoon but we are getting pounded so much that there is a landslide warning out for our part of the island. No swimming for a couple of months at least.

"Dilaudid Maintenance.": Yep, I will be on that soon. As soon as we have regular stocks of Jurnista I will be trying it. it is an ER tab though. I will get into on the matrix and once I figure how to manipulate it, if pricing is not more than 3 times what I am paying for the morphine, I will switch for good. 64 mg. tabs are fantastic IF I can beat the time release. Then again, 2 tabs, 128 mgs over 12 hours, is roughly 11 mgs per hour. I think that would do the trick for sure. Be a hellof alot easier taking 4 tablets, 2 per dose, 2 times a day than eating all the ones I am taking. On the other hand these morphine tabs are only the size of microdots (1/32md of an inch in diamter) so I should shut up while I am ahead. i am just worried about the price. Imported, and something pharmacies will not want to touch because of the extreme poverty of the poorest island out of a very poor nation. Hmmm...

"Telling Canada the truth about wanting to get in for a Heroin Programme.": NEVER tell the Ministry the truth. That would never get you a pass. Make soemthing up, school, love, something.



Nick: Or...Moving to an easy nation. They exist. I keep telling Duck...

[Duckfeet]

Yes: I was surprised at all they had...they gave me a bunch of paperwork, but *not* a copy of arrest reports, which fascinated me, as I had many arrests I had long forgotten about...and I know there are countries out there, believe me...but at time I logged on here, I had just started on this little "run" and had seven years off dope behind me, so I had around 20 thousand dollars saved up, and was fairly footloose...but between heroin and paying a private bupe clinic to get *off* methadone w/subs...all the money was gone...and now, of course, mom is getting older and needs me around...I can be hardhearted like any good junky...but it seems harder now I'm older to abandon them...when I was younger I'd leave anybody: girls, friends. towns, families...but now it seems I need to stick round...

And I still don't know why on methadone I couldn't swim, as I had been a daily swimmer up til then...I think it wasn't so much "dope" as it was just that lethargy thay I always get on methadone...where I really want to do is hole up...that seems to be going away, the longer I"m off it...so we'll see...

Ah well, just got back from a ride up the coast, showing visiting family all the pretty spots...all the best to u Rach, and happy new year!



Duck: "Canada having a better copy of Duck's record than the US does.": Ironic, true but then Canada gets it directly from Homeland Security whereas in the US the only time

<snip>

Nick: Or...Moving to an easy nation. They exist. I keep telling Duck...

[rachamim18]

Happy New Year to you as well. Mom is only here for a time, other places will be there forever.

[scikid]

finally saw this news reported on fox. because of the obvious reduction in crime, etc that comes with legalization, switzerland intelligently voted for the free heroin for addicts but, strangely, voted NO on legalizing marijuana. well, at least their cp patients do not have to suffer the stigma of evil narcotic relief like in the u.s. at least, i can't imagine so.


Marijuana is pretty much sold openly over though last I heard. I think you buy it as a "perfume packet".. This is according to my friend, but that was several years ago.

Frankly, I feel like the US is moving towards the same thing in some ways. I think we will end up like England where it is technically illegal, but just a fine and most people don't give a shit. When I lived in London I was always smoking pretty openly. As long as you aren't being really obvious and not blowing it in people's faces you are fine.

Its already like that in some areas of the US. A year ago my city basically stopped hearing all Marijuana possession related cases because we have so many more pressing issues. I think they have started hearing them again though. They had to bring a judge out of retirement though..