bangin the done

[Boxcar]

i got my hands on a buncha 5mg methadones... are they bootable? whats a good amount to start with if so? cook, no cook? i looked fer a sticky but i didnt see one. any other ROAs better or as good. i was gonna try and plug. i know they build up in yer system so i guess im pretty sure i wont be gettin F'd up alot

thanks all

[D-Stabilized]

i got my hands on a buncha 5mg methadones... are they bootable? whats a good amount to start with if so? cook, no cook? i looked fer a sticky but i didnt see one. any other ROAs better or as good. i was gonna try and plug. i know they build up in yer system so i guess im pretty sure i wont be gettin F'd up alot

thanks all

There are numerous threads on here covering that very subject but the general consensus seems to be that it's pointless to bang em. There's no initial rush to be had (some would disagree) and all of the other effects are the same as if taken orally or rectally, either of which will generally last longer than IV. Regardless of the fact that it builds up in your system, you won't be getting F'd up a lot anyway. If you're looking for that typical opiate euphoria that you get from most other good painkillers, you'll be disappointed. Do not let this lack of apparent effect lure you into taking additional doses within the first few hours chasing that high. That's a classic recipe for methadone overdose which despite its lack of euphoric effect, is a strong opiate analgesic and carries all the dangers associated with same. Since I don't have a ton of experience with methadone, I'm hesitant to give dosing advice except to say that with a pretty healthy tolerance, I find 30 mgs. to be more than sufficient for 10+ hours of good relief from very severe pain. Unless you've taken it before or know that you have a large opiate tolerance, I wouldn't take any more than 10 or 15 mgs. the first time around and that's if your body (especially your heart and respiratory system) are not compromised in any way and you don't mix with alcohol or other CNS depressants.

Bottom line - don't bang em. Eat em or plug em and enjoy 8-12 hours of pain-free mild body high. I find they go well with a couple of nice buds of green sticky. ;)

D-Stabilized

[upstate_007]

Just eat em.

[Boxcar]

thanks guyus, i knew they built up, but i figured i could have 3-4 days of fun . had a friende here, he said they were way good to bang.was hopin fer the rush of a dilli withthe legs of morphine.or H. one more questrion. i dont wannasoundlike a lamer but...im on these for pain, i got a new doc who didnt wanna gove me anyuthin,si i was gonna change PM cuz they are close. but i dont wanna give up 130mg of MSER a day along with 30mg MSIR a day. thats ALOTTA morphine for 60 m/dones a month. idunno tho mybe this is an opertunity.... well my questionis, and im tryin to be safe not sound lame. can you still do H like once a week? its all tar here wheree\ i live... but is that ok or dangerous?

[reddragon3668]

Sure, you can do H ontop of done. Just be careful... success depends more on how much done your taking than anything else. If the done is high enough it will block the H.. then, you might actually keep trying to break through and over do it. So, be careful. Done is one of the best analgesics I've ever used. Its also the best thing I've ever taken for nerve pain. I was on it for six years. Be careful!


thanks guyus, i knew they built up, but i figured i could have 3-4 days of fun . had a friende here, he said they were way good to bang.was hopin fer the rush of a dilli withthe legs of morphine.or H. one more questrion. i dont wannasoundlike a lamer but...im on these for pain, i got a new doc who didnt wanna gove me anyuthin,si i was gonna change PM cuz they are close. but i dont wanna give up 130mg of MSER a day along with 30mg MSIR a day. thats ALOTTA morphine for 60 m/dones a month. idunno tho mybe this is an opertunity.... well my questionis, and im tryin to be safe not sound lame. can you still do H like once a week? its all tar here wheree\ i live... but is that ok or dangerous?

[Duckfeet]

No...it's useless--just like fixing subutex--but since u seem to have needle fever lately, you'll probably fix'em anyway...me, I'd quit jacking around: go pawn everything, say goodby to my family for a bit, fix a bed in my car, find me a santa ana bondsman and introduce myself, show him title to car, get his phone numger, and go get me some heroin, which in the end, is the cheapest...and usually gets me more honest about what I am, and what my chances are...

Banging all the pharmies--for me--was always just putting off the inevitable...and it's hard not to notice the regular threads you keep starting on how to fix different garbage drugs...u might want to check the search engine, or better: do a google search, and after putting in search terms, put in: "site: (this site)" (without quotes or spaces) and that will give you a really good search of opy...

When I first came on here, and was always getting into how to fix percocets and subs and crap, some oldtimer on here kind of chewed me out, as the site *does* try to aim a bit towards harm reduction...you'll get instructions, sure, but people will also point out the obvious...best wishes...

[Boxcar]

hearing both is a good thing i guess. and bein that i dint have any needles, i dont have the fever. i was really just curious about the dones. if they are going to be my pong term pain med , id like to know if i was gonna beale to have a lil fun sometimes, BEFORE puttin a neeedle in anywhere....thats all. i like to get yelled at too.

[Papa Verine]

Duck is right... I like the honesty so much I laughed out loud - even though his post wasn't at all humorous and I don't at all feel good.

I noticed it too Boxcar. You seem to be a bit reckless with the pain meds. You saying you just want to have a little fun sometimes isn't reality man. In reality you want to sit down and bang all 60 of those methadones non-stop until you run out, then go hustlin' for some real dope.

I hope that doesn't sound too harsh. It's good to get a dose of the truth here and there. Just to balance things out a bit...

[nick]

Duck is right... I like the honesty so much I laughed out loud - even though his post wasn't at all humorous and I don't at all feel good.

I noticed it too Boxcar. You seem to be a bit reckless with the pain meds. You saying you just want to have a little fun sometimes isn't reality man. In reality you want to sit down and bang all 60 of those methadones non-stop until you run out, then go hustlin' for some real dope.

I hope that doesn't sound too harsh. It's good to get a dose of the truth here and there. Just to balance things out a bit...

Yeah,I've noticed too,but I'd just like to point out that this isn't us being judgemental in any way.It's worying is all.

[Papa Verine]

Yeah,I've noticed too,but I'd just like to point out that this isn't us being judgemental in any way.It's worying is all.

Exactly

[Duckfeet]

I love yah, Boxcar: u know that...and I just felt compelled to give the 'cautionary' advice, since it was given to me too, when I was bouncing between "oh my god, I'm loosing *everything*...somebody *help* me!!!" and"Anybody know how to fix mscontin/perks/subutex/methadone...darvocets :p ???"

Just seemed not that long ago you were pretty much in despair over financial situation, and family, pawning laptop, loansharks hunting you, etc., etc...it's one of the curses of "closed" sites, like Opy is, that we kind of pay attention...and we're happy to share our info, and glad to help...but we also periodically watch people on here loose their loved ones, loose their freedom, and even--as in Dek's case--their lives...really...Dek isn't the first opy to go... Dek won't be the last...

And this site isn't a "recovery" site, and we don't want it to become one...but, again, we got all kinds on here, so you too--like me--will get all kinds of responses...

Again, best wishes...

[DCBA]

Just eat em.

Or bang them up your ass. That works way better than oral for me with methadone, it takes a 1 hour and a half to peak instead of 4 to 6 hours that would take if it were oral.

[twinn73]

do any of yall experience this,im on 80 mgs of mmt a day and some days my eyes feel like there are 50 pound weights on the lids im no newcock ive been shooting H for about 8 years and finally been staying true to mmt(besides my pain mngt doc visits)once a mont i get 240 roxi 30s 60 2mg xanax and 60 lorcet i sell most of every thing but i keep 40 roxi 30s to bang cuz i have a needle fixation but as far as the heavy eyelids is that a side effect, live from the 305 ,twinn formally known as dimebagaboy anyone remember me i had a debt to pay to dade count corrections im back on the scene now

[Voyager]

As all of my friends here told you, it's pointless to shoot Methadone.
It's oral bioavailability is round 95%, so you'll get the same strength either you eat them or shoot them.
Another thing is that when you I.V. Methadone, there is no rush, no rush AT ALL !
I I.V.ed Methadone oral solution a lotta times (our Serbian Methadone oral solution can be I.V.ed), and in the end found it usseless.
You'll shoot it.
Then you'll wait like round 2 minutes, then it'll slowly start acting, and reach it's peak within 15 minutes.
Just eat them.

As for taking Heroin on top of Methadone.
That depends of which dose of Methadone are you on.

If you take like 30mg of Methadone, it's very unprobable that you'll feel any significant effects from quarter of a gram of good dope.

In order to feel any effects after you took 30mg of Methadone, you'll need at least half a gram of very good smack.

And taking Heroin on top of Methadone can be deadly.
And the OD tricks you very easily, extreamly easily.

You'll take let's say 20mg or 30mg of Methadone, then you'll take a quarter of a gram of Heroin on top of that. And you won't feel a thing. And then you'll continue, but you'll still be unable to feel any saignificant effects, and you'll keep taking more and more, still not feeling that euphoria you are expecting, and you'll go to bed and - die.

Methadone has really no special recreational value if you are opioid tolerant person.
Even in opioid naive persons, Methadone does not create so much joy, at least not so much like Heroin, Oxycodone, Hydromorphone, Morphine, etc..

And in case of switching from daily chronic Morphine to Methadone, you'll need 8 times less Methadone a day, than Morphine.
So, you were taking 160mg of Morphine a day.
You'll need no more than 30mg of Methadone a day to acheive the same analgetic effects.

I suggest you just keep those Methadone tabs in case you end up with no fuel, to prevent withdrawals.
That would be the best if you ask me.

@twinn73

That's exactly the side-effect I have from my 90mg of Methadone a day.
I'm also on MMT, for already 2 years.
But after 6 months in MMT, I got a lotta side effects, and the worst of all was that excessive eyelids closing.
I thought that it'll pass, but it was stronger and stronger.
I tried lowering my dose, but it was the same.
After a year, it was so strong, that I would wake up, and after just 15 minutes, my eyelids would start closing and I couldn't controll it (even if I still didn't take my daily dose of Methadone) !
I couldn't see where I walk while on the street, I couldn't drive a car, I couldn't do ANYTHING !
And I was so fuckin' afraid, I thought that I got Blepharospasm, it's the illness which has such effects, and the only solution to it is the injection of Botox toxine in the eye's muscles every 6 months. But it has a lotta side effects, like, your face get's all fucked up, your face skin becomes clamsy and your eyelids...Botox toxine just disables those muscles which causes spasm in Blepharospasm.
Another thing which also has those excessive eyelids closing effects is Tardive Dystonia, caused by large doses of antipsychotics and neuroleptics (dopamine antagonists), and can be successfully treated with antiholinergic and antimuscarinic drugs like Artane, Akineton, Phencyclidine, etc..

But I had neither Blepharospasm nor tardive Dystonia (God forbid).

I tried Morphine, and I didn't have that side effect.
I tried Hydromorphone, and also didn't have that side effect.
It's Methadone.

So my doctor and I were searching for the solution, because in my country Serbia, Methadone is the only substitution option for addicts on maintenance.

And I was the one who found the solution.

Methylphenidate !
I asked my doctor to ask for permission from the health consillium of Serbia to prescribe me Concerta to treat Methadone side effects.
And they approved it.

So, I got Concerta 36mg tablets, 1 tablet in the morning together with my dose of Methadone.
ALL ! I MEAN ALL of those nasty side effects of Methadone were gone !
Depression, sleepyness, demotivation, lack of concentration, opstipation, and the most important, excessive closing of the eyelids.
And I even got a boost from that combo of Methadone and Concerta.
After I take them in the morning, I get a very good euphoria and stimulation and motivation and talkativness which last for up to 7 hours !

That way I became the first patient on MMT in Serbia who got prescribed Concerta for Methadone side effects.
And a lotta psychiatrists then became very much interested in using Concerta for that purpose.
I don't know if there are now in Serbia more MMT patients who also got Concerta for Methadone side effects.

That's the only way you can resolve the issue you have with closing of the eyelids while staying on Methadone.
There are no other options.

Of course, there is another option, and that's to get switched to slow-release Morphine or slow-release Hydromorphone, if that's available in your country.

Otherwise, Ritalin or Concerta (Methylphanidate) will remove all of those side effects you have, and your eyes will compleatly get back to normal.
You won't need more than 36mg of Methylphenidate a day.
If you decide on Concerta, then you'll be taking 1 tablet of 36mg of it in the morning together with your Methadone dose.
And if you decide on Ritalin, you'll take 10mg every 4 hours, that's 30mg a day.
Concerta 36mg is equivalent to Ritalin 10mg every 4 hours a day.

There, I hope I helped you and I hope that you'll be able to get prescribed Methylphenidate, because if not, soon you'll be compleatly reterded and unable to function normally and everybody around you will really strongly notice that, you'll be unable to hide it...you'll be unable to SEE !

Best Wishes !

[chemiKalz]

Careful dude, if I see a RIP boxcar thread I will kick your ass.

[Voyager]

Why buddy ? /:-|
Did I say something wrong ?

[sopark4000]

Yea dude also again not to chew you out or anything but 1. if you use the search engine you could have found the answer to this question and 2. Your spelling is atrocious, for now on please take a second look at your posts before hitting the submit post button please, it'll be easier on the eyes for all of us not to mention that you cant really get an answer to your question if no one can read it. Like I said don't feel like I am chewing you out just trying to point you in the right direction on the boards.

[GOLD N DIEMONDS]

Careful dude, if I see a RIP boxcar thread I will kick your ass.

TO VOYAGER YOUR POST WAS FINE !
as usual.

I belieive this is directed to Boxcar and not you.:)

[SeVeN]

Yea dude also again not to chew you out or anything but 1. if you use the search engine you could have found the answer to this question and 2. Your spelling is atrocious, for now on please take a second look at your posts before hitting the submit post button please, it'll be easier on the eyes for all of us not to mention that you cant really get an answer to your question if no one can read it. Like I said don't feel like I am chewing you out just trying to point you in the right direction on the boards.

Keep in mind english isnt his first language.

And yeh dont shoot methadone. Its bad for you and will be very dissapointing.

[chemiKalz]

Why buddy ? /:-|
Did I say something wrong ?

i was talking to boxcar

[twinn73]

who is dek and who cares anyways RIP dek:D

[smack man]

shooting done is just about as worthless as banging subutex. Although i have never tried to shoot done, i have tried subutex, and there is no rush to be had. I personally enjoy the buzz from methadone. just be careful and consider your tolerance. i usually eat about 40-80 mg of done and i'll be leanin all night. so be careful

[excerpts]

shooting done is just about as worthless as banging subutex. Although i have never tried to shoot done, i have tried subutex, and there is no rush to be had. I personally enjoy the buzz from methadone. just be careful and consider your tolerance. i usually eat about 40-80 mg of done and i'll be leanin all night. so be careful

I tend to love hearing this MYTH perpetuated through the ages (last decade) especially from people with great names like SMACK MAN (though, I suppose one can only assume that's implied pedigree for SMACK use alone?). Anyways, you say yourself you haven't had experience with it... why are you weighing your two cents in (just curious)? I mean, other than the fact they can both be called 'opiates' and are used in the treatment of illicit opioid abuse, I don't know what would make you feel these two substances are interchangeably identical as far as dispensing, potency, withdrawal/ intoxication effect, cumulative effect, etc. is concerned. I would assume (yes, assume) most people would agree that these substances are pharmacologically far different in such respects, is my main point to you Smack Man.


NOW, as far as the topic is concerned, I'd like to think I could be the voice of reason here and end this after the dust has settled. My next post will be geared towards settling the score on methadone injection. The short story is that its not only possible to IV methadone, but the rush (i assume thats what people call the first 2-3 minute high that differentiates injection, rush) intensity is quite exquisite when done right. Now I know I say "done right" like its so frickin' complicated, but it's really not. Its more or less a series of lucky circumstances that have to go your way in order to obtain proper IV high from methadone... along with decent technique and tool (having the right tool plays into the luck factor a bit too I suppose).

For those of you skeptical, read on in my next message if you want to find out the details about IVing methadone and how & when it works. Nothing but simple truth.. though its pretty winded, so may not be that simple to some of you. ;)

[excerpts]

So... here's the scoop: methadone comes in a variety of liquid and tablet 'suspensions', all with their own unique little nuances that one addict from the next swears by, or will attest to in a court of law "holds him longer" than the stuff the clinic in the next county over is dispensing. What this means is everyones' anecdotal 'evidence' (experience) may differ from the next guy. What people fail to take into consideration in most instances is the ability to be objective (or take the scientific approach). Now, I have to ask most of you who have actually had experience injecting methadone a few things (sorry, if you haven't attempted and SUCCEEDED in this endeavor, you can't weigh in... and by succeeded i don't necessarily mean had a positive, heroin IV-like effect---just those of you who are pretty positive you got a vein and didn't notice a different "high").


1) What exactly have you injected before? Have you injected opiates a lot (and by opiates i mean HEROIN or pharmaceutical grade liquid [morphine,etc.], prescription pill crushers need not apply)... i mean, are you REALLY familiar with the difference that comes from an injection? I know this seems like a ridiculous question for some of you, but i think it may be relevant surprisingly. Basically this calls to question your prior experience with injection and its valid because people without a proper history of opiate injection highs invalidate actual results with their inability to distinguish a variety of phenomena associated with injection (i.e. hitting arteries, missing circulatory system all together, abscesses, "cotton fever", etc.)

2) What were you injecting? Again, I don't think most people could say they get their hands on pills and have the formal/proper education, drive, and dexterity (of mind too) it takes to release the potent material from what binds it, into a viable (or suitable) liquid for injection. I won't say its impossible, or that it won't produce a true "rush" (or whatever it is you want to call that first 2-3 minute high from injection we all chase--I'm calling it a "rush" for our purposes here). And I won't say it's impossible because it'd make me a hypocrite; however, I'd really like to exclude you here as well. If your source was a pill, forget it... I don't want to hear how it didn't provide a rush, because most of us are NOT qualified (myself included) to produce viable liquid for injection from pill form (YES, EVEN THE DISOLVABLE ONES SORRY). At this point only liquid methadone patients need go on.

3) AND PERHAPS MOST IMPORTANT STEP HERE. What were you on at the time? What was your methadone dose at the time? How did you feel to begin with when you went to inject?? Did you try injecting after years of being on MMT and having a high blood level/content? I mean, for instance if you drink your daily dosage for say a year, and you have a week's carry at this point and decide you were going to inject tomorrow's dosage... did you already drink today's? This could be the most relevant portion because A. only so much methadone is available per 1ml (typically seems like 10mg for every 1ml). The average insulin syring is only 1ml!! If you're already maintained on daily 120mg (just for our purposes here 120mg & your levels would be high and you feel pretty normal if not even a little nice through out the day) and the most you can get into your vein at one time is 10mg (with insulin syringe // ORANGE TIPS), what do you think 10mg is going to do, even in IV form?

Most of you have to understand that a 10mg per 1ml suspension is a very little IV wise if you're anywhere in the triple digit range of oral dosage (100mg and above). Especially if you have been taking your daily dosage like clock work and have a built up blood level. It will likely take a day or more of NOT DRINKING YOUR DOSE for your levels to drop sufficiently for IV. That is, to the point of beginning withdrawal, like where your body temperature seems to drop and you get runny nose along with irritability and maybe become gassy or slightly achey. This is the point when you should be trying to IV your liquid (especially if you only have access to 1ml syringe). I personally use a 5ml syringe on average which allows around 50mg of methadone at once, and i find this to be a NICE sufficient shot for getting a "RUSH". I even have access to a 10ml for special occasions *BUT I AM EXPERIENCED*. For your purposes, you'd definitely want to start with a 3ml syringe I'd say, but only after experimenting with the 1ml for saftey.

4) this part is more like an addendum here for IVing properly rather than a screening step. But what type of liquid methadone do you get? Let's face it, the cherry syrup shit or anything that comes with juice or sweet flavoring is really NO GOOD FOR IV. That's not to say you can't IV it. Like I would filter it through cotton and heat it up, and filter it through cotton some more before I attempted any strange mixture injection. But honestly any colored or flavored liquids, or any liquids that dont have a water appearance and consistency aren't really all that great for IV. Fact is, who knows wtf is in that and you don't want to bypass the body's natural defense system for bacteria and other stuff that shouldn't be in the circulatory system, YOUR STOMACH. Anyway, I get whats called an ORAL CONCENTRATE that literally only has 10mg of methadone hcl per every 1ml of purified water, along with trace amounts of citric acid and sodium benzoate (for preservative i guess).

Now I realize it says ORAL and only recommends for that use, but literally look whats in it. All safe for IV, if not slightly stingy to small veins or muscles if you miss from the citric acid i would mostly assume. Its pretty perfect for IVing in my case and works just as good as a lot of the shitty street dope peddled around.



I suppose that's really all I have to say at this point. I can't come up with any other points as to why people would mistakenly say METHADONE DOES NOTHING IV; it's likely they fall somewhere into 1 or more of those 4 categories and just don't know that it matters, or care enough. I suppose this goes back to my lucky circumstances thing of the first post. A lot has to come together, as in you need the right starting material (proper methadone liquid). You also need to be relatively sober, or not filled with methadone to feel its effects rush over you from an injection. You also need the right tools (or you could try to purify the stuff i get by somehow removing the excess water, but since I have access to the injection tools... its easier to do it that way than to risk evaporating my methadone HCL with the water, or having to learn some chemistry 101 way).

[blutuesday]

I tend to love hearing this MYTH perpetuated through the ages (last decade) especially from people with great names like SMACK MAN (though, I suppose one can only assume that's implied pedigree for SMACK use alone?). Anyways, you say yourself you haven't had experience with it... why are you weighing your two cents in (just curious)? I mean, other than the fact they can both be called 'opiates' and are used in the treatment of illicit opioid abuse, I don't know what would make you feel these two substances are interchangeably identical as far as dispensing, potency, withdrawal/ intoxication effect, cumulative effect, etc. is concerned. I would assume (yes, assume) most people would agree that these substances are pharmacologically far different in such respects, is my main point to you Smack Man.


NOW, as far as the topic is concerned, I'd like to think I could be the voice of reason here and end this after the dust has settled. My next post will be geared towards settling the score on methadone injection. The short story is that its not only possible to IV methadone, but the rush (i assume thats what people call the first 2-3 minute high that differentiates injection, rush) intensity is quite exquisite when done right. Now I know I say "done right" like its so frickin' complicated, but it's really not. Its more or less a series of lucky circumstances that have to go your way in order to obtain proper IV high from methadone... along with decent technique and tool (having the right tool plays into the luck factor a bit too I suppose).

For those of you skeptical, read on in my next message if you want to find out the details about IVing methadone and how & when it works. Nothing but simple truth.. though its pretty winded, so may not be that simple to some of you. ;)

Damn, you really come off as a self righteous know it all. Don't ya think all that is a bit much for a person that has hardly posted??? Most of us don't need schooling on anything, and sorry not everyone has a fucking heroin/methadone/whatever PHD.

I do, of course but do tell, what exactly are your credentials? And also, wtf is with making fun of someones user name? LAME!

[blutuesday]

Yea dude also again not to chew you out or anything but 1. if you use the search engine you could have found the answer to this question and 2. Your spelling is atrocious, for now on please take a second look at your posts before hitting the submit post button please, it'll be easier on the eyes for all of us not to mention that you cant really get an answer to your question if no one can read it. Like I said don't feel like I am chewing you out just trying to point you in the right direction on the boards.

Wow, and you too huh? Got huge ego syndrome?

WTF is up with ppl with NO posts getting huge balls to tell senior members how to use this board?

Juuuuuuuust wondering. Two peeps in one thread. Kinda ridiculous. :cool:

[excerpts]

Damn, you really come off as a self righteous know it all. Don't ya think all that is a bit much for a person that has hardly posted??? Most of us don't need schooling on anything, and sorry not everyone has a fucking heroin/methadone/whatever PHD.

i do, of course but do tell, what exactly are your credentials? And also, wtf is with making fun of someones user name? LAME!

yeah, a little much... which is why only the first paragraph addresses him personally.

Most of you don't need schooling or want it, and that's fine. I'm just more or less here to open discussion on the topic of methadone injection. The reason being is I'm either a miraculous exception to the rule and experience the "rush" independent of tens of thousands of people (if not more) world-wide...
OR... something is being done wrong.


As far as the PHD thing, thats a ridiculous statement. There's plenty of "OPIOBABBLE" I read here that I have no clue what's being said. I'm not here to waste my time with discussions about who did what and in regards to person's perceived ability to ENTER a conversation (that's your hang up, obviously when you ask me my credentials and bring up my POST COUNT). On the other hand, when a person's experience or knowledge directly calls into question the validity of their results with the subject matter itself (specifically here, methadone injection effects), it needs to be openly discussed to understand the phenomenon of those of us who feel effects vs. those who don't, directly.

And the name SMACK MAN? I would think someone with that name has a good enough sense of humor to enjoy the forum playing around with it (hello, like baRt man or something)... otherwise it screams amateurish intent at credentials which deserves a good lampooning (which works either way, so simmer down).


EDIT -- oh, as far as members vs. senior members and post count. Kinda funny though that my join date of 10-06 seems to either match or predate anyone I've seen post here, I.E. apparently those same people I am supposedly challenging/telling how to use a msg. board?? I mean, honestly... do yourself a favor and just calm down. You're making this into an argument when there should just be a great open discussion going... and people giving us their experiences and results and hopefully coming to conclusions about why or why not their methadone isn't satisfying intravenously.

[blutuesday]

yeah, a little much... which is why only the first paragraph addresses him personally.

Most of you don't need schooling or want it, and that's fine. I'm just more or less here to open discussion on the topic of methadone injection. The reason being is I'm either a miraculous exception to the rule and experience the "rush" independent of tens of thousands of people (if not more) world-wide...
OR... something is being done wrong.


As far as the PHD thing, thats a ridiculous statement. There's plenty of "OPIOBABBLE" I read here that I have no clue what's being said. I'm not here to waste my time with discussions about who did what and in regards to person's perceived ability to ENTER a conversation (that's your hang up, obviously when you ask me my credentials and bring up my POST COUNT). On the other hand, when a person's experience or knowledge directly calls into question the validity of their results with the subject matter itself (specifically here, methadone injection effects), it needs to be openly discussed to understand the phenomenon of those of us who feel effects vs. those who don't, directly.

And the name SMACK MAN? I would think someone with that name has a good enough sense of humor to enjoy the forum playing around with it (hello, like baRt man or something)... otherwise it screams amateurish intent at credentials which deserves a good lampooning (which works either way, so simmer down).

I will not "simmer down." WTF. You are outta line, sorry. Just calling it like I see it. You should be more respectful. Obviously I was being sarcastic re: credentials and I know sometimes people here ask absurd comments and make stupid statements, including me, which most are in fun, but you really came off like a dick, so I called you on it. Big deal.

It isn't all that serious....... how about you "simmer down?"

YUP!

[EleusisII]

My dick-detector is going off too...

There's a nice way and an asshat way of posting things no matter what the facts are, and coming off condescendingly is just a bad idea in general.

As far as the usual "use the search engine"-nagging sopark4000, I believe that the rule is, you have to have either 200 posts under your belt before you get to say it, or you're a biatch...

Seriously... Someone, usually one of the same 2-3 people, is going to say it anyways, so what's the point?

[blutuesday]

My dick-detector is going off too...

There's a nice way and an asshat way of posting things no matter what the facts are, and coming off condescendingly is just a bad idea in general.

As far as the usual "use the search engine"-nagging, I believe that the rule is, you have to have either 200 posts under your belt before you get to say it, or you're a biatch...

Seriously... Someone, usually one of the same 2-3 people, is going to say it anyways, so what's the point?


Haha. Score two capo!

[blutuesday]

EDIT -- oh, as far as members vs. senior members and post count. Kinda funny though that my join date of 10-06 seems to either match or predate anyone I've seen post here, I.E. apparently those same people I am supposedly challenging/telling how to use a msg. board?? I mean, honestly... do yourself a favor and just calm down. You're making this into an argument when there should just be a great open discussion going... and people giving us their experiences and results and hopefully coming to conclusions about why or why not their methadone isn't satisfying intravenously.

You are the one being outta line. Nuff said.

Doesn't matter when people join. It's obvious that someone who is more active doesnt need direction on how to use the board.

I'm thru with this. You obviously love to argue. I don't care that much.

Hope you get over whatever is bugging you, really


:) :) :) :)

[excerpts]

I will not "simmer down." WTF. You are outta line, sorry. Just calling it like I see it. You should be more respectful. Obviously I was being sarcastic re: credentials and I know sometimes people here ask absurd comments and make stupid statements, including me, which most are in fun, but you really came off like a dick, so I called you on it. Big deal.

It isn't all that serious....... how about you "simmer down?"

YUP!

i don't know how to even respond to this bumble-fucked, ass backwards post. i mean, is this how you always win your pointless arguments? by starting one where it doesn't exist, and then abandoning all logic with circular, bi-polar reasoning that goes a little like this:

WTF!!! I WILL NOT SIMMER DOWN. you're outta line... BE RESPECTFUL. Ohhh teehee just kidding and being sarcastic, BUT SERIOUSLY you're being a dick. whats the big deal, I CALLED YOU A DICK, take it and LIKE IT. NOW YOU SIMMER DOWN.

BTW i'm not being serious! YUP! (I WIN)

Anyways, I just thought you might like to know what it's like to sit from the outside looking in on your thoughts here in the forum. Enjoy.

[blutuesday]

i don't know how to even respond to this bumble-fucked, ass backwards post. i mean, is this how you always win your pointless arguments? by starting one where it doesn't exist, and then abandoning all logic with circular, bi-polar reasoning that goes a little like this:

WTF!!! I WILL NOT SIMMER DOWN. you're outta line... BE RESPECTFUL. Ohhh teehee just kidding and being sarcastic, BUT SERIOUSLY you're being a dick. whats the big deal, I CALLED YOU A DICK, take it and LIKE IT. NOW YOU SIMMER DOWN.

BTW i'm not being serious! YUP! (I WIN)

Anyways, I just thought you might like to know what it's like to sit from the outside looking in on your thoughts here in the forum. Enjoy.

blah!

[Duckfeet]

All we have is anecdotal info on here...and our powers of persuasion are often linked to how good we are at bullshitting, u know, convincing others thru scientific jargon, or thru "how long I've been on opiophile..etc..." or "I'm a *doctor* u little shitheads, listen to *me!!!*" ...docs, chemists, junkies... after a while on here, most of us know who to trust, and who is just doing verbal handstands...

I tend to mistrust good spelling my ownself, even tho I'm encumbered w/degrees taught by people who *worshiped* good spelling, but I've been around this world long enough to realize that good spelling, good grammar, and even lilly-white non-cursing vocabularies tell u nothing about a person's character...most boys have at least *one* bitter memory of nice-talking scoutmaster, priest, or "uncle" who then would proceed to molest us...and, like I said: anybody on here can claim any educational status they want...and get pompous, like I just did....:cool:

I have fairly negative experience with injecting methadone...We used to crush up the pills--the same way we would crush up percocets, tylox, percodan, and the occasional odd dilaudid (yay k4s!!!), and after crushing and stirring--all kinds of quantities of pill methadone--30-100mg or more--we would suck it up into a syringe and "fix" them...and I found that--like previous poster stated--the effect was a lot like subutex, which is to say, the sort of effect I'd 1) Look in the mirror to see if my eyes are pinned...and 2) Ask the other idiots around me if they were getting off 3) Try again...and again...and again...nothing, really...

I've heard from enough people that methadone that is *intended* for injection, like some Europeans get--and I wish we would get here--does make you pretty happy when you fix it...but I also know that methadone taken *orally* makes u kind of happy, about an hr after fixing, also, so I presume, this is based mo on the "getting well" euphoria, rather than the "Oh life is so wonderful and I feel so good" euphoria that short-acting opiates produce...but I'm a longtime *needle* addicted opiate addict, and I *know* that if I had injectible methadone, I'd be doing it, and fight w/anybody who wanted to take it away...simply because it's forbidden, generally, here, to junkies like me...which naturally heightens it's value...

And as far as preparing and injecting the "koolaid crap" we get at clinics...I've heard way too many credible *negative* experiences to buy into that one...lets face it, that's the *first* thing any serious junky thinks about...and way too many of the stories on "how to prepare it" are, well, u make yer own decisions on that one...me, I'm not buying it...I'm sure it can be done, by those w/serious chemical knowledge...but most of us are bathtub chemists, and would just fuck it up....

But mostly on Opy we try to be at least minimally respectful of each other's views...or we get in unwinable battles...we have different experiences w/exactly the same meds...and anybody who is a regular on here, knows to sort of weigh all the opinions/experiences, and decide for themselves...

[blutuesday]

All we have is anecdotal info on here...and our powers of persuasion are often linked to how good we are at bullshitting, u know, convincing others thru scientific jargon, or thru "how long I've been on opiophile..etc..." or "I'm a *doctor* u little shitheads, listen to *me!!!*" ...docs, chemists, junkies... after a while on here, most of us know who to trust, and who is just doing verbal handstands...

I tend to mistrust good spelling my ownself, even tho I'm encumbered w/degrees taught by people who *worshiped* good spelling, but I've been around this world long enough to realize that good spelling, good grammar, and even lilly-white non-cursing vocabularies tell u nothing about a person's character...most boys have at least *one* bitter memory of nice-talking scoutmaster, priest, or "uncle" who then would proceed to molest us...and, like I said: anybody on here can claim any educational status they want...and get pompous, like I just did....:cool:

I have fairly negative experience with injecting methadone...We used to crush up the pills--the same way we would crush up percocets, tylox, percodan, and the occasional odd dilaudid (yay k4s!!!), and after crushing and stirring--all kinds of quantities of pill methadone--30-100mg or more--we would suck it up into a syringe and "fix" them...and I found that--like previous poster stated--the effect was a lot like subutex, which is to say, the sort of effect I'd 1) Look in the mirror to see if my eyes are pinned...and 2) Ask the other idiots around me if they were getting off 3) Try again...and again...and again...nothing, really...

I've heard from enough people that methadone that is *intended* for injection, like some Europeans get--and I wish we would get here--does make you pretty happy when you fix it...but I also know that methadone taken *orally* makes u kind of happy, about an hr after fixing, also, so I presume, this is based mo on the "getting well" euphoria, rather than the "Oh life is so wonderful and I feel so good" euphoria that short-acting opiates produce...but I'm a longtime *needle* addicted opiate addict, and I *know* that if I had injectible methadone, I'd be doing it, and fight w/anybody who wanted to take it away...simply because it's forbidden, generally, here, to junkies like me...which naturally heightens it's value...

But mostly on Opy we try to be at least minimally respectful of each other's views...or we get in unwinable battles...we have different experiences w/exactly the same meds...and anybody who is a regular on here, knows to sort of weigh all the opinions/experiences, and decide for themselves...

Well said as usual <3

[jonny-5]

i don't know how to even respond to this bumble-fucked, ass backwards post. i mean, is this how you always win your pointless arguments? by starting one where it doesn't exist, and then abandoning all logic with circular, bi-polar reasoning that goes a little like this:

WTF!!! I WILL NOT SIMMER DOWN. you're outta line... BE RESPECTFUL. Ohhh teehee just kidding and being sarcastic, BUT SERIOUSLY you're being a dick. whats the big deal, I CALLED YOU A DICK, take it and LIKE IT. NOW YOU SIMMER DOWN.

BTW i'm not being serious! YUP! (I WIN)

Anyways, I just thought you might like to know what it's like to sit from the outside looking in on your thoughts here in the forum. Enjoy.

you need to watch it dick head. being an asshole is not a good way to make friends around here. and definitely dont talk to her like that.

its actually in the rules, if you care to read them. DONT BE AN ASSHOLE.

[EleusisII]

(Polite, yet well-timed applause)

[blutuesday]

(Polite, yet well-timed applause)

You are getting more hillarious by the minute. In general, general! Haha.

[chopstix]

Comedy gold.

[runormal]

Comedy gold.
very true. i have been checking this thread all day waiting/watching for new posts ... very addicting.

[excerpts]

All we have is anecdotal info on here...and our powers of persuasion are often linked to how good we are at bullshitting, u know, convincing others thru scientific jargon, or thru "how long I've been on opiophile..etc..." or "I'm a *doctor* u little shitheads, listen to *me!!!*" ...docs, chemists, junkies... after a while on here, most of us know who to trust, and who is just doing verbal handstands...

as a matter of fact i agree with most of this. the ongoing nonsense on the net is.. well, ongoing; as the tail end of page 2 and the beginning of page 3 of this thread will attest to.

I tend to mistrust good spelling my ownself, even tho I'm encumbered w/degrees taught by people who *worshiped* good spelling, but I've been around this world long enough to realize that good spelling, good grammar, and even lilly-white non-cursing vocabularies tell u nothing about a person's character...most boys have at least *one* bitter memory of nice-talking scoutmaster, priest, or "uncle" who then would proceed to molest us...and, like I said: anybody on here can claim any educational status they want...and get pompous, like I just did....:cool:

haha. fair enough. though i find you're always much more likely to be read and taken seriously with the adult crowd when you take the time to compose yourself and arrange your thoughts in a semi-formal, elegant way. Though it seems like this doesn't go over as well with the zealous, younger crowd toting around prior forum/flame/net baggage (as in maybe the situation mimics the whole rebellion towards authority thing? just an estimation). And I suppose I shouldn't be surprised to see this in an "opiophile" forum as drug-use tends to be more of a younger person's game anyway. I turn 30 soon so I'm not all that "old" myself, but I know how to conduct myself. If that little girl finds what I said irritating, she should take it upon herself to do some breathing exercises and find herself a hobby. I didn't insult anyone, and I posed an open, honest question about the methadone injection phenomenon. And that's all I really want to address about that situation.

I have fairly negative experience with injecting methadone...We used to crush up the pills--the same way we would crush up percocets, tylox, percodan, and the occasional odd dilaudid (yay k4s!!!), and after crushing and stirring--all kinds of quantities of pill methadone--30-100mg or more--we would suck it up into a syringe and "fix" them...and I found that--like previous poster stated--the effect was a lot like subutex, which is to say, the sort of effect I'd 1) Look in the mirror to see if my eyes are pinned...and 2) Ask the other idiots around me if they were getting off 3) Try again...and again...and again...nothing, really...

well see, you fall right into the 2nd category in which i was trying to screen experiences. In other words I wanted people who attempted injection with LIQUID suspensions of methadone only (that were RX'd that way), as it seems rather difficult to just "wing" turning your pills into a viable liquid suspension of methadone for injection. Again, that's not to say it can't be done, but most pill crushing, cookie sheet evaporating, kitchen jobs seem fairly hopeless at best for the majority of us non-chemists/pharmacists.

I've heard from enough people that methadone that is *intended* for injection, like some Europeans get--and I wish we would get here--does make you pretty happy when you fix it...but I also know that methadone taken *orally* makes u kind of happy, about an hr after fixing, also, so I presume, this is based mo on the "getting well" euphoria, rather than the "Oh life is so wonderful and I feel so good" euphoria that short-acting opiates produce...but I'm a longtime *needle* addicted opiate addict, and I *know* that if I had injectible methadone, I'd be doing it, and fight w/anybody who wanted to take it away...simply because it's forbidden, generally, here, to junkies like me...which naturally heightens it's value...

well see, there you have it. you've heard from the crowd who gets the "intended for injection" stuff that its a happy fix. and from my personal experience i can affirm this as well. Now I actually get what is considered AN ORAL CONCENTRATE of methadone... LIKE THE KOOLAID stuff you mention below, but its different in that it lacks a lot of the extra junk that comes in the KOOLAID kind. Basically, my clinic uses the unflavored ORAL CONC. version which literally contains 10mg methadone hcl per 1ml purified water, and less than .01% (i think, or .1% maybe) of citric acid and sodium benzoate. THAT IS IT. So purified water, methadone, and preservatives. and it is HIGHLY ACTIVE IV and makes for an intense 2 minute rush after IVing. If you need proof of the stuff here it is: http://www.drugs.com/pro/methadose-conc.html

check the one on the bottom of the page to affirm what i tell ya. Anyways I SAY RUSH. But basically I mean both the "good life is great euphoria" from short term opiates on initial injection, after 20 seconds or so. Followed by about 24 hours of the "getting well" euphoria methadone is typically known for. And this is the god's honest truth. I don't just inject it and it comes on more quickly within 15 minutes as opposed to 2-3 hrs with oral ingestion. No, its that same crossing of the blood-brain barrier that people refer to when talking about heroin and the "RUSH" they get from injecting which can NOT be obtained from snorting. Plain and simple.

And as far as preparing and injecting the "koolaid crap" we get at clinics...I've heard way too many credible *negative* experiences to buy into that one...lets face it, that's the *first* thing any serious junky thinks about...and way too many of the stories on "how to prepare it" are, well, u make yer own decisions on that one...me, I'm not buying it...I'm sure it can be done, by those w/serious chemical knowledge...but most of us are bathtub chemists, and would just fuck it up....

But mostly on Opy we try to be at least minimally respectful of each other's views...or we get in unwinable battles...we have different experiences w/exactly the same meds...and anybody who is a regular on here, knows to sort of weigh all the opinions/experiences, and decide for themselves...

that's exactly how i feel about the matter and conduct myself. if you want to go back in the thread and see my original post to SMACK MAN, you can. If I was out of line for you, then so be it. I just wondered what would make him think that injecting subutex (in whatever way he attempted to do so) would make him think he knows whether methadone can give you the RUSH from IV. and let's be clear here, the RUSH is the 2-3 minute high that floods your head about 10-20 seconds after injecting that feels basically like an orgasm without ejaculation, to clarify once more. This is independent of the "feeling well" warmth feeling that stays with you for about 24 hrs after injection, though they both come on together for me, the RUSH is fleeting but forever what I chase and crave, obviously.

Nodding is not my idea of fun these days because as an adult you have to conduct yourself in a professional way to hold down a job and be a responsible person. This is also something the younger or inexperienced crowd doesn't seem to get that those of us into this shit 15 years or longer do. And consequently is a pretty tell-tale sign of their lack of experience with injection. Probably another reason why I felt like I should respond to SMACK MAN about propagating the IV methadone is BS myth. I digress.

as for the koolaid, i believe it could be IVed... at least the one from the link I supplied. BUT, I suspect that it might be risking that "cotton fever" / sepsis like sickness you get from injecting bacteria or particles of shit that shouldn't be in your blood stream. So koolaid folks be warned. -- However -- the unflavored ORAL CONC. is perfectly IVable despite that the link I gave you says its not for iv. I mean, purified water, methadone, and less than .1 or .01% citric acid + sodium benzoate is simply doable. Though it can burn if missed or injected into smaller veins, muscles or arteries.. I suspect this is from the citric acid (and ONLY reason why Mallinckrodt warns against IV, other than they know their shit is for clinic patients and we would gladly divert it or whatever). Fact remains is the mallinckrodt methadone oral conc. i get is LOVELY for IV and would be the only thing I would truly recommend for IV, for you MMT patients out there. for this reason alone I am a lifer. anyways, i'd be happy to discuss any other details further if you or anyone wants to share email.

[excerpts]

you need to watch it dick head. being an asshole is not a good way to make friends around here. and definitely dont talk to her like that.

its actually in the rules, if you care to read them. DONT BE AN ASSHOLE.

heh, funny how hypocritical you and your girl are acting, throwing curses around and basically being "non-troll" trolls. i mean, if this is a who can sink lowest, fastest competition, you two win.

and so far, the only one that has been treated like dirt here for no reason is me. you two need to clean up your acts and stop propagating your opinions about what is proper etiquette. If you have a valid complaint, go take it up with the forum moderators and let them do the job entrusted to THEM. So far, all your girl has been able to show is her inability to tolerate others (me & sopark4000) and and act like an imbecile. I mean, I understand your reason in this is coming to her aide and using the moderation rules to back up your position, and I accept that... at least on the grounds of appearing chivalrous. But the both of you need to stop hiding behind moderation rules and accept your propensity for name-calling, arguing and general malcontent with those of us who point out simple errors about an opiate or two (a symbolic representation of authority figures in this instance, makes perfect sense if one considers you/your behavior to be young and rebellious, eh?).

[blutuesday]

To the OP, sorry to get sidetracked.

Banging Methadone IMHO is pointless. Just to sum up what some people said.

I did know a guy in rehab who said that he did it regularly, and he enjoyed it though, so as we all know, everyone is different.

I read a crazy story once about a guy putting his methadone in an aluminum container and shooting his take homes for a few YEARS and he ended up in the ER with bad symptoms, and ended up having a ridiculous amount of aluminum in his blood stream. It took him several years of therapy to recover and I remember the article did not know the outcome because he failed to come to his last 6 months of therapy. Interesting read it was, wish I could find that one.

Good Luck with whatever you decide to do Box.

[Duckfeet]

I have heard of that one being "fixable", the *non* koolaid version...I just never got that: we always had either the wafers--in the old days--and then the koolaid...or, of course, the little white pills for pain, which I think we both agree just don't seem to cut it...

And I know people on here who say different, that even the IV methadone isn't "that good"...but I've also seen posts by people in Europe on IV methadone who say that it was just what they were looking for...and I just know how much that slight little buzz I'd get about an hr after drinking methadone gave me...I didn't even realize always it was a buzz...until I got off methadone, and saw that yeah, for about six-eight hrs it got a lot better...but also, like I always say, I had other side effects I got sick of...mostly constipation, which always has plagued me from day one on mdone...

But anyway, I believed you on the "rush" ... I just have never had a good mdone rush, or IVed any good mdone, so I just don't know...I have a feeling I'd still be on methadone if I could have had it IV...I'd stake my life on it...and--as I"ve also posted--I flew up to Vancouver w/every intent of moving there as I felt I had a shot at either heroin or dilaudid maint.....so I have the typical anti-gov libertarian attitude towards methadone...which is, for me, at best, a poor substitute for what would help me...but like every opiate addict...I gotta make do...

And I actually think we all respond differently, at different times, to different opiates: in my youth, I just *loved* fixing demerol and even percodans, when I couldn't get k4's...but as time went by, neither one did I like...and I dont' like nodding either...never really did...

Best wishes...


<snip>

well see, there you have it. you've heard from the crowd who gets the "intended for injection" stuff that its a happy fix. and from my personal experience i can affirm this as well. Now I actually get what is considered AN ORAL CONCENTRATE of methadone... LIKE THE KOOLAID stuff you mention below, but its different in that it lacks a lot of the extra junk that comes in the KOOLAID kind. Basically, my clinic uses the unflavored ORAL CONC. version which literally contains 10mg methadone hcl per 1ml purified water, and less than .01% (i think, or .1% maybe) of citric acid and sodium benzoate. THAT IS IT. So purified water, methadone, and preservatives. and it is HIGHLY ACTIVE IV and makes for an intense 2 minute rush after IVing. If you need proof of the stuff here it is: http://www.drugs.com/pro/methadose-conc.html


check the one on the bottom of the page to affirm what i tell ya. Anyways I SAY RUSH. But basically I mean both the "good life is great euphoria" from short term opiates on initial injection, after 20 seconds or so. Followed by about 24 hours of the "getting well" euphoria methadone is typically known for. And this is the god's honest truth. I don't just inject it and it comes on more quickly within 15 minutes as opposed to 2-3 hrs with oral ingestion. No, its that same crossing of the blood-brain barrier that people refer to when talking about heroin and the "RUSH" they get from injecting which can NOT be obtained from snorting. Plain and simple.



that's exactly how i feel about the matter and conduct myself. if you want to go back in the thread and see my original post to SMACK MAN, you can. If I was out of line for you, then so be it. I just wondered what would make him think that injecting subutex (in whatever way he attempted to do so) would make him think he knows whether methadone can give you the RUSH from IV. and let's be clear here, the RUSH is the 2-3 minute high that floods your head about 10-20 seconds after injecting that feels basically like an orgasm without ejaculation, to clarify once more. This is independent of the "feeling well" warmth feeling that stays with you for about 24 hrs after injection, though they both come on together for me, the RUSH is fleeting but forever what I chase and crave, obviously.

Nodding is not my idea of fun these days because as an adult you have to conduct yourself in a professional way to hold down a job and be a responsible person. This is also something the younger or inexperienced crowd doesn't seem to get that those of us into this shit 15 years or longer do. And consequently is a pretty tell-tale sign of their lack of experience with injection. Probably another reason why I felt like I should respond to SMACK MAN about propagating the IV methadone is BS myth. I digress.

as for the koolaid, i believe it could be IVed... at least the one from the link I supplied. BUT, I suspect that it might be risking that "cotton fever" / sepsis like sickness you get from injecting bacteria or particles of shit that shouldn't be in your blood stream. So koolaid folks be warned. -- However -- the unflavored ORAL CONC. is perfectly IVable despite that the link I gave you says its not for iv. I mean, purified water, methadone, and less than .1 or .01% citric acid + sodium benzoate is simply doable. Though it can burn if missed or injected into smaller veins, muscles or arteries.. I suspect this is from the citric acid (and ONLY reason why Mallinckrodt warns against IV, other than they know their shit is for clinic patients and we would gladly divert it or whatever). Fact remains is the mallinckrodt methadone oral conc. i get is LOVELY for IV and would be the only thing I would truly recommend for IV, for you MMT patients out there. for this reason alone I am a lifer. anyways, i'd be happy to discuss any other details further if you or anyone wants to share email.

[excerpts]

To the OP, sorry to get sidetracked.

Banging Methadone IMHO is pointless. Just to sum up what some people said.

I did know a guy in rehab who said that he did it regularly, and he enjoyed it though, so as we all know, everyone is different.

I read a crazy story once about a guy putting his methadone in an aluminum container and shooting his take homes for a few YEARS and he ended up in the ER with bad symptoms, and ended up having a ridiculous amount of aluminum in his blood stream. It took him several years of therapy to recover and I remember the article did not know the outcome because he failed to come to his last 6 months of therapy. Interesting read it was, wish I could find that one.

Good Luck with whatever you decide to do Box.

i know this wasn't to me, but i'll respond anyway. first off, nice to see you just give your opinion on the topic. hope we can just discuss this like adults.

second, "banging methadone" is banging heroin, is banging morphine, is "BANGING" opiates period. curiously, if intravenously active, what makes banging methadone pointless in opposition to say heroin, because it interferes with mmt? i can respect that line of reasoning. when i IV too much, im left with half a week and no medicine left. its actually a struggle to keep 50mgs worth for each of the later days in the week before my weekly pickup. But, as far as it being a CHEAP, LEGAL, BANGABLE OPTION, it actually makes A LOT MORE SENSE to go with the methadone than scoring dope on the street (mmt is like 50 bucks a week for up to 200mg or so a day, compared to like 50 bucks a day for street dope with which you never REALLY know what you're going to get, have chance of getting busted, possibility overdosing due to variances of potency on the street, ad nauseam). I don't know, just seems illogical... but hey, you are entitled to your opinion on why methadone iv is pointless. just real curious to hear why.


as for the whole aluminum thing, interesting... but sounds a little suspect. my guess is that if this story is true, it would happen with ANY liquid opiate stored in the container then, wouldn't it? i mean, why does this story get singled out for the dangers of IV methadone use, when its likely the guy would have done the same thing with any liquid opiate he had his hands on? As a rule of thumb, keep your medicine in the bottle the doctors gave it to you in; problem solved. and honestly, it doesn't really sound like it has anything to do with methadone itself, other than circumstances involved IV use of methadone and an unfortunate case of poisoning due to improper storage container. *shrugs* i fail to see methadone's specific "culpability" in this instance, unless i'm missing the point here? very odd story though.

[blutuesday]

i know this wasn't to me, but i'll respond anyway. first off, nice to see you just give your opinion on the topic. hope we can just discuss this like adults.

second, "banging methadone" is banging heroin, is banging morphine, is "BANGING" opiates period. curiously, if intravenously active, what makes banging methadone pointless in opposition to say heroin, because it interferes with mmt? i can respect that line of reasoning. when i IV too much, im left with half a week and no medicine left. its actually a struggle to keep 50mgs worth for each of the later days in the week before my weekly pickup. But, as far as it being a CHEAP, LEGAL, BANGABLE OPTION, it actually makes A LOT MORE SENSE to go with the methadone than scoring dope on the street (mmt is like 50 bucks a week for up to 200mg or so a day, compared to like 50 bucks a day for street dope with which you never REALLY know what you're going to get, have chance of getting busted, possibility overdosing due to variances of potency on the street, ad nauseam). I don't know, just seems illogical... but hey, you are entitled to your opinion on why methadone iv is pointless. just real curious to hear why.


as for the whole aluminum thing, interesting... but sounds a little suspect. my guess is that if this story is true, it would happen with ANY liquid opiate stored in the container then, wouldn't it? i mean, why does this story get singled out for the dangers of IV methadone use, when its likely the guy would have done the same thing with any liquid opiate he had his hands on? As a rule of thumb, keep your medicine in the bottle the doctors gave it to you in; problem solved. and honestly, it doesn't really sound like it has anything to do with methadone itself, other than circumstances involved IV use of methadone and an unfortunate case of poisoning due to improper storage container. *shrugs* i fail to see methadone's specific "culpability" in this instance, unless i'm missing the point here? very odd story though.

So you want me to lie and say it was for all opiates when the article I read was specific to methadone? I wasnt issuing a cautionary tale or anything, this thread just reminded me of an article I read. You are missing the point. Please can you stop taking everything so seriously? I just added my point of view, then added an interesting story.

This is exhausting! Puh lease can you *JUST* stop? I left it alone a long time ago, please would you also? Thanks

[excerpts]

I have heard of that one being "fixable", the *non* koolaid version...I just never got that: we always had either the wafers--in the old days--and then the koolaid...or, of course, the little white pills for pain, which I think we both agree just don't seem to cut it...

And I know people on here who say different, that even the IV methadone isn't "that good"...but I've also seen posts by people in Europe on IV methadone who say that it was just what they were looking for...and I just know how much that slight little buzz I'd get about an hr after drinking methadone gave me...I didn't even realize always it was a buzz...until I got off methadone, and saw that yeah, for about six-eight hrs it got a lot better...but also, like I always say, I had other side effects I got sick of...mostly constipation, which always has plagued me from day one on mdone...

But anyway, I believed you on the "rush" ... I just have never had a good mdone rush, or IVed any good mdone, so I just don't know...I have a feeling I'd still be on methadone if I could have had it IV...I'd stake my life on it...and--as I"ve also posted--I flew up to Vancouver w/every intent of moving there as I felt I had a shot at either heroin or dilaudid maint.....so I have the typical anti-gov libertarian attitude towards methadone...which is, for me, at best, a poor substitute for what would help me...but like every opiate addict...I gotta make do...

And I actually think we all respond differently, at different times, to different opiates: in my youth, I just *loved* fixing demerol and even percodans, when I couldn't get k4's...but as time went by, neither one did I like...and I dont' like nodding either...never really did...

Best wishes...

oh i know the feeling. actually, when i first iv'd the 'done.. it had a subtle difference in the rush effect than say heroin. kinda hard to describe, but as if i could tell it was "synthetic" or something. kinda made me queasy and i wasn't sure if i liked it. well, i slammed it a few more times that day, and by nightfall i swear i couldn't tell the difference between it and the heroin i used to do. In fact, i've tried the heroin from the places i used to get it from (usually when my 'done dries up and a day or two before pickup, into withdrawal). and i swear i don't even feel like i catch a buzz from it. and that's about 30 dollars cooked up worth in one needle, and it just feels a little icky and like it staves off w/d symptoms for 4 hours before i come back down to baseline. Its friggin pathetic.

i now realize how few times i actually did get decent dope out on the streets in the past, and i now realize the price to pay for it is just too high (both monetarily and time-wise, emotionally, and the risk of getting busted as well). i suppose i could see how some might see the iv methadone as less than ideal. but the way i look at it, the cheapness of it, the unending supply, the feeling of never being let-down (as in the clinic is ALWAYS open), and knowing that this is legally prescribed for me, in a bottle where cops couldn't touch me. I mean, it means the world to me. And its like I want to shout to the world how great it is and how a lot of you could be happy like me on a day to day basis. And it sucks when I see people say the wrong thing about it, you know. Its like I'm one of the only people in the world enjoying this legally.

though now that i think about it, legal IV heroin or dilaudid sounds like a miracle plan too good to be true. I would consider moving if this liquid ever dried up. where exactly are these utopias you speak of? oh yeah, and constipation is an ongoing fight. actually, the funny thing is injecting seems to solve this problem as in i run out of medicine middle of the week and by the time pick up day rolls around i'm having plenty of movements (several within the 24 hours of picking up actually). Though I try to keep "loose" through out the week by keeping plenty hydrated and being patient on the pot, among a couple other things.

[Duckfeet]

Actually, when I first came on here, all I knew about was the heroin programs in England, which have been around in different forms, pretty much throughout my lifetime...tho they too, have cracked down much, and it is not as easy as it once was *particularly* if one isn't in UK....Nick gave me lots of info...but by the time I got serious, I had spent most of my savings--heroin will do that--and had also done more research, and found that *Canada* had an ongoing experimental legal heroin program (google Vancouver, and NAOMI and you'll get all the info u need)...and I had contacted them, and from what I understood, I had a pretty good chance, u know, failed at methadone maintenance, fucked up life, older, all that....

*But* the one thing I had forgotten, (I actually knew this, since I had been long haul trucker and could not deliver in Canada)was that Canada has always had a serious database of United States *felons*...and I flew up to Vancouver, and was caught in immigration, and it was either *jail* and appeal...or sign paper 'fessing up, all that, and I was escorted back to U.S. side, and put back on plane and sent home...unfortunately, tho, that means if I tried *again*, say, driving up there, which is supposedly easier, and got caught, I'd be in serious trouble, and probably would do at *least* jail time...maybe prison....

But anyway, it was a nice thought...and Vancouver's program had several "control" groups...the one everybody *hoped* for was the diamorphine group, naturally...second was the hydromorphone group, and finally, way down on the list of "desirable" outcomes, was being stuck in oral methadone control group...from what I understand, H and D's both had pretty good outcomes...methadone was predictable and a lot less successful...

Anyway, there u go: that was as close as I ever got to legal heroin...all the way to fucking airport...and sent home... :(

Edit: And I actually felt that injectable methadone might go a little easier on the constipation...no real science, I just found that injections always moved thru my bod quicker...and I would be willing to put up w/a little sickness in the morning in exchange for BM's and injectable methadone....



<snip>

though now that i think about it, legal IV heroin or dilaudid sounds like a miracle plan too good to be true. I would consider moving if this liquid ever dried up. where exactly are these utopias you speak of? oh yeah, and constipation is an ongoing fight. actually, the funny thing is injecting seems to solve this problem as in i run out of medicine middle of the week and by the time pick up day rolls around i'm having plenty of movements (several within the 24 hours of picking up actually). Though I try to keep "loose" through out the week by keeping plenty hydrated and being patient on the pot, among a couple other things.

[excerpts]

So you want me to lie and say it was for all opiates when the article I read was specific to methadone? I wasnt issuing a cautionary tale or anything, this thread just reminded me of an article I read. You are missing the point. Please can you stop taking everything so seriously? I just added my point of view, then added an interesting story.

This is exhausting! Puh lease can you *JUST* stop? I left it alone a long time ago, please would you also? Thanks

When I said "unless I am missing the point" it was my attempt at being rhetorical, sorry to say I can see I lost you on that one. My point was simply to illustrate the way in which you so casually butted up the two paragraphs about methadone IV as if they were relevantly linked, without so much as a caveat like: in an unrelated, but similar story...

When you're anything but UNequivocal with your context, people tend to get mislead... as what happens in the news all the time. You see I take it upon myself to be everyone's errant boy and point out that the only thing medically relevant about that story was that injecting a liquid stored in a tin or aluminum can be dangerous. The fact is not everyone knows you weren't issuing a cautionary tale, though at least now that seems clear.

Saying things like I want you to lie and say the story said other opiates is just ridiculous, and only seems to reinforce the possibility that you intentionally tried to be misleading. I mean, what is it I am supposed to stop, what is it that I need to leave alone? If by something, you mean bringing up your inability to converse without whining, misleading through poor context, or provoking people with thinly veiled accusations to god knows what end (proving yourself worthy of winning "the argument" maybe?), then I'll stop when you can, k?

[excerpts]

Actually, when I first came on here, all I knew about was the heroin programs in England, which have been around in different forms, pretty much throughout my lifetime...tho they too, have cracked down much, and it is not as easy as it once was *particularly* if one isn't in UK....Nick gave me lots of info...but by the time I got serious, I had spent most of my savings--heroin will do that--and had also done more research, and found that *Canada* had an ongoing experimental legal heroin program (google Vancouver, and NAOMI and you'll get all the info u need)...and I had contacted them, and from what I understood, I had a pretty good chance, u know, failed at methadone maintenance, fucked up life, older, all that....

*But* the one thing I had forgotten, (I actually knew this, since I had been long haul trucker and could not deliver in Canada)was that Canada has always had a serious database of United States *felons*...and I flew up to Vancouver, and was caught in immigration, and it was either *jail* and appeal...or sign paper 'fessing up, all that, and I was escorted back to U.S. side, and put back on plane and sent home...unfortunately, tho, that means if I tried *again*, say, driving up there, which is supposedly easier, and got caught, I'd be in serious trouble, and probably would do at *least* jail time...maybe prison....

But anyway, it was a nice thought...and Vancouver's program had several "control" groups...the one everybody *hoped* for was the diamorphine group, naturally...second was the hydromorphone group, and finally, way down on the list of "desirable" outcomes, was being stuck in oral methadone control group...from what I understand, H and D's both had pretty good outcomes...methadone was predictable and a lot less successful...

Anyway, there u go: that was as close as I ever got to legal heroin...all the way to fucking airport...and sent home... :(

Edit: And I actually felt that injectable methadone might go a little easier on the constipation...no real science, I just found that injections always moved thru my bod quicker...and I would be willing to put up w/a little sickness in the morning in exchange for BM's and injectable methadone....

i would agree with you. you'd definitely be able to manage your bowels if you mainly injected methadone. i mean, i got somewhat of a handle on it, but its far from being regular on the other hand. and yeah, letting the sickness come on occasionally seems to be what it takes to get those really good, cleansed feeling BMs.

that canada thing is wild. never heard of that, but the only reason you can't do it is because of a felony conviction? that stinks. to be honest though, i had thought about moving to canada for other reasons i won't get into. the whole D,H and M program would certainly make deciding which province to go to an easy process! lol

so what part of the country are you in now? i'm not going to come out and say where i'm from for my own reasons, but maybe doing a search for clinics along with that unflavored oral conc. from mallinckrodt will produce some results in which you could use? i'd be willing to tell ya where i am and where you can score it if you want to give me your e-mail. otherwise i could just tell ya if you're close enough to score from my area (fact is they have at least 2 or 3 clinics in the area.. different counties, but mostly suburban area surrounding a major metropolitan city in the US).

[chopstix]

Tijuana Norte..

cracks me up...

[runormal]

i'd be willing to tell ya where i am and where you can score it if you want to give me your e-mail. otherwise i could just tell ya if you're close enough to score from my area (fact is they have at least 2 or 3 clinics in the area..

um, was he being serious????? wow.

[Duckfeet]

Yeah, I'm way down in sw corner of US, beach town...but I'm going to stay off methadone now--tho I appreciate the offer--and keep my focus more on saving my veins to when I can move to country that either decriminalizes personal use, and has fairly decent heroin--like Colombia does, and I've lived south of border plenty, and know my income would go further...

Or, find out for a fact, that they allow foreigners to enter UK or one of many European countries that now have Heroin Maintenance, or even injectable methadone....

Usually, as Vancouver apparently also did...they have pretty strict residency requirements...probably to avoid the obvious, as happened in England in old days of docs prescribing heroin at will: many junkies moved there...now they are more savvy and have computers...so u can't just "lie yer way in" as would probably be my bent...and I tried that in Vancouver at first...but they knew they had me, and had all my arrests and convictions and Cali registration as Narcotics Addict, which I don't know if they even do, any more...

[Duckfeet]

Yeah, I'm way down in sw corner of US, beach town...but I'm going to stay off methadone now--tho I appreciate the offer--and keep my focus more on saving my veins to when I can move to country that either decriminalizes personal use, and has fairly decent heroin--like Colombia does, and I've lived south of border plenty, and know my income would go further...

Or, find out for a fact, that they allow foreigners to enter UK or one of many European countries that now have Heroin Maintenance, or even injectable methadone....

Usually, as Vancouver apparently also did...they have pretty strict residency requirements...probably to avoid the obvious, as happened in England in old days of docs prescribing heroin at will: many junkies moved there...now they are more savvy and have computers...so u can't just "lie yer way in" as would probably be my bent...and I tried that in Vancouver at first...but they knew they had me, and had all my arrests and convictions and Cali registration as Narcotics Addict, which I don't know if they even do, any more...

And both clinics here just perscribe the koolaid...tho I had hosp perscribing me the mdone pills for a while, and might have eventually worked my way up to injectable...but I had to get on maint as I couldn't control my use worth a damn...never could, and that sucks...as I've had both dilaudids *and* methadone perscribed for pain...but I can be a real fiend, if there's dope in the house....

[ZodiacKiller]

um, was he being serious????? wow.

Apparently he was....as you can tell from his current status. :D


ZK

[EleusisII]

Huh. Well that didn't take long...

Blutuesday 1:Asshole 0

[Thebane]

Wait, you can get banned for offering info on mdone clinics? Not trying to go against the mods or anything, I'm assuming it was for breaking the asshole rule or a combination. But I didn't think offering someone mdone clinic info was a bannable offense.

[blutuesday]

Huh. Well that didn't take long...

Blutuesday 1:Asshole 0


Thankkkkkkkk you! *takes a bow*

[blutuesday]

Wait, you can get banned for offering info on mdone clinics? Not trying to go against the mods or anything, I'm assuming it was for breaking the asshole rule or a combination. But I didn't think offering someone mdone clinic info was a bannable offense.

Sorry for the new post, as I, unlike that asshole excerpts do know how to quote ppl x2 at once, but I didn't write this until after.

He wasnt giving advice on methadone clinics. He was giving advice on how to "score" methadone to IV. So, IMO that isnt giving advice on where to go to the clinic

Plus, as you can see, he was an arrogant argumentative prick, who was trying to tell the members of this board how to use it, and trying to "school" people on shit.

[Thebane]

Sorry for the new post, as I, unlike that asshole excerpts do know how to quote ppl x2 at once, but I didn't write this until after.

He wasnt giving advice on methadone clinics. He was giving advice on how to "score" methadone to IV. So, IMO that isnt giving advice on where to go to the clinic

Plus, as you can see, he was an arrogant argumentative prick, who was trying to tell the members of this board how to use it, and trying to "school" people on shit.

Yeah, no doubt he deserved banning for being an asshole. I was just curious whether giving someone info on clinics was ok or not. I thought I read giving people info on docs (and maybe clinics?) wasn't really smiled on, but I can't remember, and I'm sure that was back under the old owner.

[blutuesday]

Yeah, no doubt he deserved banning for being an asshole. I was just curious whether giving someone info on clinics was ok or not. I thought I read giving people info on docs (and maybe clinics?) wasn't really smiled on, but I can't remember, and I'm sure that was back under the old owner.

Im not too sure on that one, but I think that if I said: I go to <insert street name here> clinic, then it might be against rules? Idk..but yea good riddance!

[GOLD N DIEMONDS]

Huh. Well that didn't take long...

Blutuesday 1:Asshole 0

LMFAO - again;)

[blutuesday]

LMFAO - again;)

Damn righ!!! :cool:

[ZodiacKiller]

Im not too sure on that one, but I think that if I said: I go to <insert street name here> clinic, then it might be against rules? Idk..but yea good riddance!


Well, giving specifics, such as the street address, etc, of a clinic is definitely frowned upon. It can just expose the site and its members to too much liability. Anyone who's been here for more than a day or two knows how to contact another member, and they can certainly discuss such things OFF the site. Common sense, really...

In regards to the offending poster who was nomo'd: the solicitous posting was only one contributing factor in him getting the boot. No mods/admins arbitrarily boot people on a whim, cause we're crabby that day, etc..Be assured that other factors came into consideration. However, the general mood among the mod-team is one of very low tolerance these days. A lot of really stupid shit has happened in recent times, and we know that people aren't that frickin' dumb. If you're gonna wantonly break the rules, or be a total dick (or a complete sociopath...), be prepared to face the consequences.


ZK

[Kallie]

I've been hesitant to post this, but since I know I've definitely felt something nice and eagerly read posts that have had similar experiences and yet they always seem to get contradicted or told it's impossible . For those that know me from before (k630), know I'm not a bullshitter.

SWIM has IV experience with tar, powder, and M. Then SWIM got put on the red syrupy methadone less than a year ago and ended up on 110mg/daily. SWIM has 5 take homes, weekly, at this time. SWIM has IVed it, after "fasting" several days from the normal dose, skin was crawling, goosebumps, etc and definitely experience a very different from oral sensation (even a similar "fasting" before, then oral dose and nothing like the IV).

Of course, SWIM does not do this daily or even weekly, just here and there (over the past 5 months). And in a 3ml (approximately 30mgs of methadone) rig, SWIM has felt some very, very nice sensations.

SWIM knows that IVing that red crap cannot be wonderful for one's body, but honestly SWIM has never had an abcess or any problem from the methadone IV. SWIM had many such problems IVing the danm tar, even with very sanitary IV practice and alcohol swabbing, etc because of tar's inherent nasty additives.

So, yes, honestly SWIM confided to me that it wasn't the same as IVed H or M, but there was definitely pleasure experienced.

If there's anyone here in the health profession that has seen serious but hidden symptoms of a dire health issue that SWIM should check out from IVing the red stuff or worry about, please reply and I will pass along to SWIM. Or also, anyone with personal negative health consequences from IVing the red stuff, their opinion or experiences would be very appreciated. Just thinking about harm reduction besides the obvious of not doing it. Thanks.

[poonwhalla]

Well, giving specifics, such as the street address, etc, of a clinic is definitely frowned upon. It can just expose the site and its members to too much liability. Anyone who's been here for more than a day or two knows how to contact another member, and they can certainly discuss such things OFF the site. Common sense, really...

In regards to the offending poster who was nomo'd: the solicitous posting was only one contributing factor in him getting the boot. No mods/admins arbitrarily boot people on a whim, cause we're crabby that day, etc..Be assured that other factors came into consideration. However, the general mood among the mod-team is one of very low tolerance these days. A lot of really stupid shit has happened in recent times, and we know that people aren't that frickin' dumb. If you're gonna wantonly break the rules, or be a total dick (or a complete sociopath...), be prepared to face the consequences.


ZK

this is for all the dumb fucks that just don't get it. How hard is it to google m-done clinics in whatever town you are in then start there and make eccentric circles until you find what you are looking for. That and just like zk said do it off site. what you do on your own, is your business. All that being said I gotta quote QOTSA "Whatever you do, don't tell anyone":D

[Duckfeet]

Thanks ZK: you've been doing this a while, and I know just how hard it can be, and that you guys keep this site running, and I've seen much less "assholes being assholes" lately, and I figure it's cuz u guys are on the case...makes it *so* much easier to get along on here, and the occasional spat?...well, that's Opy... :)

Well, giving specifics, such as the street address, etc, of a clinic is definitely frowned upon.

<snip>

If you're gonna wantonly break the rules, or be a total dick (or a complete sociopath...), be prepared to face the consequences.
ZK