Homatropine in Hycodan

[wafflehead77]

Hello All. I was wandring if anyone knows much about oral homatropine, such as that in Hycodan syrup/tablets. All I know is that it is less potent than atropine, which can be some nasty stuff. The hycodan prep contains 5mg hydro to 1.5mg homatropine.

Safe dose? I am wanting to stretch my roxi's by using this as a "base-line" opiate, but I dont want to overdo the tropane alkaloid. Im thinking 25mg hydro, so a 7.5mg dose of hom.

Any thoughts, suggestions?

Thanks, Waffle

[resorcinol]

I would keep the homatropine dose below 15 mg. Info on the toxic dose of homatropine is pretty scarce on the net, but it seems like the amount in Hycodan isn't very effective in discouraging abuse since it's not very much at all.

This would allow you to take up to 50 mg hydrocodone at once. I'd stick with that.

[wafflehead77]

Thanks. Yeah, there isnt shit online about homatropine. I am kind of wandering about the half-life, and pharacokinetics/dynamics/elimination of this shit, but I cannot find it anywhere.

I took 25ml (25mg hydro/7.5mg homatropine), and I actually felt "something". 25mg hydro is not enough for me to get anything usually, but I did with this. But, it gave me a very good buzz when I blew 45mg of oxycodone on top of it. It seemed to take the edge off of the oxy, and resembled a morphine-esqe buzz. I dont know if this was the homatropine or the ETOH in the syrup, but it seemed to potentiate quite well.

[resorcinol]

Thanks. Yeah, there isnt shit online about homatropine. I am kind of wandering about the half-life, and pharacokinetics/dynamics/elimination of this shit, but I cannot find it anywhere.
I took 25ml (25mg hydro/7.5mg homatropine), and I actually felt "something". 25mg hydro is not enough for me to get anything usually, but I did with this. But, it gave me a very good buzz when I blew 45mg of oxycodone on top of it. It seemed to take the edge off of the oxy, and resembled a morphine-esqe buzz. I dont know if this was the homatropine or the ETOH in the syrup, but it seemed to potentiate quite well.

Very true, info on homatropine is scarce. Well, it's not scarce in the strictest sense, as there were journal article results that clearly got into dosing, toxicity, pharmacodynamics, and pharmacokinetics based on the abstract, but I didn't wanna pay $$ to see the whole articles just to find out more about a muscarinic acetylcholine receptor antagonist.

How did you feel at 7.5 mg homatropine? if there were no discernible effects besides those from the hydrocodone (obviously), then I'd say it's safe to double it an take 50 mg hydrocodone. 50 mg hydrocodone orally in syrup ... then when that kicks in 40 mg oxycodone insuffulated = one hell of a good time!

[wafflehead77]

Well, I ended up taking 36mg of homatropine in 24hrs. I felt weird the next day, kind of like an MDMA or acid crash. Just weird. Also, I had some fairly bad tachycardia (100-120bpm), which is not good, but not really alarming either.

That being said, I enjoy this syrup more than the Tussionex preparation. I do not tolerate chlorpheniramine well, and I can only take 15ml of Tussy at a time, and even at this dose I feel like shit.

I have another refill on the Hycodan, so I am going to give it another shot, but this time I am going to use it to potentiate my morning dose, and my evening dose, rather than sipping it all day long. So all in all, as long as I didnt do any serious cardiac damage, I would say homatropine is fairly weak/inactive, at least orally. I have always been particularly sensitive to anticholinergics, and I tolerated this fairly well.

[resorcinol]

Well, I ended up taking 36mg of homatropine in 24hrs. I felt weird the next day, kind of like an MDMA or acid crash. Just weird. Also, I had some fairly bad tachycardia (100-120bpm), which is not good, but not really alarming either.
That being said, I enjoy this syrup more than the Tussionex preparation. I do not tolerate chlorpheniramine well, and I can only take 15ml of Tussy at a time, and even at this dose I feel like shit.
I have another refill on the Hycodan, so I am going to give it another shot, but this time I am going to use it to potentiate my morning dose, and my evening dose, rather than sipping it all day long. So all in all, as long as I didnt do any serious cardiac damage, I would say homatropine is fairly weak/inactive, at least orally. I have always been particularly sensitive to anticholinergics, and I tolerated this fairly well.

Yeah those are def mild anticholinergic side effects (tachycardia, weird perceptual disturbances, and a wiped out feeling). 100 to 120 beats/m isn't too bad tough... speed gives ya worse tachycardia than that. I'd say the amount you took was just at the upper limit and you can prob repeat that dose again no problem, but you shouldn't push it and take even more.

I've never had the tussionex preparation, but I've taken clorpheniramine with hydrocodone separately before without any issues. Tussionex is also time released ... both the hydrocodone and chlorpheniramine are time released. Tussionex uses the polystirex matrix to time release the drug.

I guess one benifit of that is that if you can tolerate a moderately large dose of chlorpheniramine, you can get a nice heavy dose of time released hydrocodone in you and nod longer than from regular hydrocodone. A higher dose of hydrocodone in the time release matrix would be needed than regular hydrocodone for the same potency of buzz, though.

[kellyblue]

WH-

I agree with the Hycodan dosing... Hycodan is my fave cough syrup, it actually kills my cough when nothing else will touch it, and a fairly small dose of the stuff can give me a pretty good buzz, in relation to the same dose in a regular vicodin. 25-50 mgs. in pill form doesn't do jack for me anymore, but that dose in a teaspoon? Happy girl! Obviously I'm not nodding from it, but it's enough to let me know I've taken it, KWIM? But- until I saw your post, I had no idea I needed to watch the homatropine--- thanks for the heads up.

Come to think of it, it's that time of year again, I think I feel that nasty dry cough coming on, LOL!

~K~

[wafflehead77]

WH-

I agree with the Hycodan dosing... Hycodan is my fave cough syrup, it actually kills my cough when nothing else will touch it, and a fairly small dose of the stuff can give me a pretty good buzz, in relation to the same dose in a regular vicodin. 25-50 mgs. in pill form doesn't do jack for me anymore, but that dose in a teaspoon? Happy girl! Obviously I'm not nodding from it, but it's enough to let me know I've taken it, KWIM? But- until I saw your post, I had no idea I needed to watch the homatropine--- thanks for the heads up.

Come to think of it, it's that time of year again, I think I feel that nasty dry cough coming on, LOL!

~K~


It is just so easy to get it rx'd too. Somewhat stupidly I decided to hit 3 more docs in 2 days. I got hycodan from each, with 2 docs giving me 4oz, with 1 refill, and 1 doc gave me 12oz w/ 2 refills! I dont know why, but I just said "fuck it". The pharmacy's were cool, and I cashed in all the refills on the same day as the original pick-up on the 4oz scripts, and 1 of the refills on the 12oz. So I picked up 40oz (1200mg) hydro, which is like getting 120 Norco's. Plus I still have 12oz to pick up, which equals another 32 Norco's. Paid cash, but still got it all for about 80 bucks. Im an idiot, so if it catches up with me,its my own fault.

[resorcinol]

I might be feeling a lil cough coming on myself :P

Nah, I shouldn't be greedy. I'm already enjoying the shit out of the bunch of 10 mg hydro pills I got.

I'm toasty on 100 mg hydrocodone, 1 mg clonazepam, and 5 mg dexmethylphenidate right now... I'm actually just coming up :D

[wafflehead77]

I might be feeling a lil cough coming on myself :P

Nah, I shouldn't be greedy. I'm already enjoying the shit out of the bunch of 10 mg hydro pills I got.

I'm toasty on 100 mg hydrocodone, 1 mg clonazepam, and 5 mg dexmethylphenidate right now... I'm actually just coming up :D

I got greedy for no reason. Just a little lapse of self-control I guess.

Anyway, what do you think of the Focalin (d-methylphenidate) in comparison to the racemic preparation. Most of the phychoactive effect is in the dextro-aspect,correct? Ive never tried it, but I have heard good things.

I like the shorter half-life of mph compared to traditional amphetamines, but the racemic methylphenidate just seems so "brassy" and unnatural.

[resorcinol]

I got greedy for no reason. Just a little lapse of self-control I guess.
Anyway, what do you think of the Focalin (d-methylphenidate) in comparison to the racemic preparation. Most of the phychoactive effect is in the dextro-aspect,correct? Ive never tried it, but I have heard good things.
I like the shorter half-life of mph compared to traditional amphetamines, but the racemic methylphenidate just seems so "brassy" and unnatural.

Focalin (d-methylphenidate) is a much better and cleaner drug than Ritalin (d,l-methylphenidate). The l-mph causes the nasty peripheral overstimulation that nobody likes. The slight amount of l-mph that does cross the BBB preferentially blocks NET, which isn't what we want.

D-mph has much less intrinsic sympathomimetic agonism and doesn't release anywhere near as much epinephrine and norepinephrine in the PNS.

D-mph also crosses the BBB more completely and very rapidly, and has a higher binding affinity for DAT than NET.

So, in summary:
*dexmethylphenidate is 2x methylphenidate in potency as a CNS stimulant since l-mph has little if any CNS activity

*dexmethylphenidate only has a little PNS activity... really typical levels for a fun euphoric stimulant ... certainly no worse than good cocaine, maybe better than cocaine as far as being easy on the PNS and esp on the heart, since there's no local anaesthetic sodium channel blocker effect to mess with the heart muscle tissue

*dexmethylphenidate is a stronger blocker of dopamine reuptake in the CNS than it is of norepinephrine reuptake in the CNS -- the desired profile for a reuptake type stim

*one difference from cocaine is that dexmethylphenidate has little effect on SERT / serotonin -- this may be why some people feel that as good as d-mph is, it still isn't quite as good as cocaine

*dexmethylphenidate, like cocaine, is transesterified in the liver when consumed with alcohol to dexethylphenidate, which is even more selective for DAT over NET... an odd and cool parallel between cocaine and dexmethylphenidate

*dexmethylphenidate, like cocaine, has a short half life. cocaine has a VERY short half life though (around 30 minutes) while dexmethylphenidate's is a little longer at 3 hours -- in other words, you'll get a little longer of a high out of snorted focalin (2 hours) than snorted cocaine (45 minutes)

*dexmethylphenidate can be taken orally, although you will need more since bioavaliability is lowish (40% or so). Cocaine really can't be eaten because it's bioavaliability orally is abysmal, like 5%, because it's so easily hydrolyzed in the acidic stomach.

Dexmethylphenidate is best combined with opioids and / or benzos. Preferably all three. I'm on all three now and I feel fucking awesome.

D-mph's crash with no crash help meds like opioids and benzos isn't too bad. Like coke, it's depressing, but it's over pretty quickly since the drug will leave your system pretty quickly. D-mph may have an easier crash than coke for another reason too -- it doesn't effect serotonin to any significant degree. Serotonin depletion and serotonin receptor down regulation is notorious for causing bad crashes of especially MDMA. Since out of cocaine, D-mph, and (meth)amphetamine, D-mph effects serotonin the least (it really doesn't at all) ... you probably won't have any deep depression when it wears off... it'll mostly just be lethargy and munchies with no motivation. Cocaine is in between, and amphetamines, at least IMO, have the worst, most godawful soul crushing crash of all.

This is why I prefer D-mph over amphetamines and cocaine despite the fact that there may be slightly weaker euphoria. It's good enough for me, and worth trading some euphoria for an easy crash.

With opioids and benzos, which is what I'm on now:
140 mg hydrocodone total consumed tonight
20 mg dexmethylphenidate consumed
120 mg oxazepam consumed
2 mg clonazepam consumed

Extreme euphoria ensues.

And I think it's clear from this post that D-mph is speedy and tweaky and give these other drugs a geeky edge :P

[resorcinol]

I should also note that even very small doses of d-methylphenidate can be used to stretch ones opiate supply. I find that for some reason, d-methylphenidate is more useful for this purpose than amphetamine preparations.

Say, you've gotta make 8 oxycontin 80s last for 4 days (but you're a 3 x 80 mg per day user and would ideally need 12 oxycontin 80s for those 4 days).

You could take those 8 OC 80 mg pills, suck the coating off and crush all of them to a fine powder in a mortar and pestle.

You would then go one of two routes:

For snorters - you would divide that powder into 12 approximately even piles and store each pile safely. Each pile contains about 53 mg of oxycodone... but you're gonna treat each pile as if it were an 80 mg OC. You'd snort mostly like normal, but here's what you'll do differently.

Each time you take out a pile, take out 5 to 15 mg d-mph too. This is Focalin IR. Lets go with 10 mg d-mph, the middle of the road option. So take out a 10 mg Focalin IR tablet with your pile of crushed white OC powder containing about 53 mg of oxycodone. Now, crush the 10 mg Focalin IR tablet very well, just like you crush your OCs. Now, MIX the pile of OC with the crushd 10 mg Focalin IR tablet WELL. Make lines with the result, and snort. You'll get just as high as you would if it was your usual whole OC80 ... the 10 mg d-mph will help make the euphoria of the 53 mg of oxycodone feel closer to 80 mg oxycodone without adding too much of a speedy feeling to the high at that dosage level.

For pill eaters- This is really simple. Crush the eight OC80 tabs and then divide that powder into 12 even piles. You'll treat each pile like an OC80 even though each only has approx 53 mg of oxycodone in it.

When you're ready to dose each time, first toss one of the piles of OC powder into a glass of juice or something, any beverage, doesn't matter. Then, get a 10 mg Focalin IR tablet, and place it into your mouth. Now, drink the Focalin IR 10 mg tablet down with your beverage / OC powder mix.

Just like with the snorters, the dexmethylphenidate is likely to make the euphoria of the 53 mg of OC feel closer to 80 mg of OC without adding too much tweak.

I've personally conserved opioids by using dexmethylphenidate. I've found it to be far less intrusive and tweaky than trying to use amphetamine for this purpose. You just end up speedballing if you try to use amphetamine. You can speedball with d-mph too, but of course you'd use high doses. I'm talking about conserving opioids here.

Right now I'm on 130 mg hydrocodone and 20 mg dexmethylphenidate and feel like I'm on way more opioid than 130 mg hydrocodone. I feel VERY cozy and high, honestly almost like I'm on heroin. The benzos may be helping too.

Since I kinda took a high dose of dexmethylphenidate and did it sublingually, I'm tweaking a little too.

For the snorting method described above, 5 mg Focalin IR may be the better dose if you don't want any really speedy effect. D-mph has a very high nasal bioavaliability, a high sublingual bioavaliability, and a moderate / just OK oral bioavaliability.

Just some stuff to think about.

Wow, speedy stuff makes me type like crazy.