Election 2008, who'd ya vote for???

[robojunkie]

I voted for Obama, if nothin' else he's about empathy and compassion not war and destruction, and that tells me at elast there is a tiny bit of open mindedness to our cause if it ever makes it onto his radar.

[smack man]

Wow! I'm surprised to see a 50/50 vote between Obama and McCain on this site. I would expect to see an overwhelming vote for Obama, seeing as how he is a liberal and has a more popular opinion on such topics as opiate addiction and MMT. On the poll, i replied as non of your business but if you have read anything about the candidates and their view on drug policy, you would know that Obama is more open. anyway that's my two cents

shit sorry i didn't notice that only 5 people had voted since i did, i'll give it some time before making judgements

[nick]

I'm one of those poor saps that will be affected by the result,but doesn't get a vote.

The BBC just reported an exit poll from Indiana with Obama winning the state by 55%.If that's anything like true........wow.Then again I don't trust the polls or the BBC.

[Duckfeet]

Look: there are conservatives on here, it happens, it makes sense--especially when u get older, I know Nick knows that tired old quote of Churchill--but anyway, I respect both views really, and try to stick to basic libertarian principles...and my heart actually goes out to McCaine, since I know he's going to loose, and a long time ago, when me and him both were young, we went off to the same war, and so, you know, he's got a part of me...

But I'm also human, and Obama seems like such a *hopeful* choice, like the whole world is watching, and they are crying in Africa, that a black man, a descendent of *their* area of the world, is going to be president of the U.S.A.

Don't get me wrong, Bush is disgusting to me, the same way Dan Quayle is, for being rabidly conservative, when they both avoided service in the last failed war....but I'm no Clinton fan, for other reasons...they talk a good game, sometimes, but junkies like me still suffer and suffer....

So I'm like everybody, worldwide, watching this one, thinking maybe America can really be better, the same way people all over South America thought, a long time ago, when John F Kennedy was elected, and I was living down in Argentina, and people prayed in churches that he would win...and he did, and I was also down there when he was shot down dead, and I hope so much they protect this man, because there are some very sick people around the world nowadays, in my county and elsewhere, who would kill themselves, and half the country, just to get the president....

Obama inherits a mess, an economy in shambles, young men--once again--dying for nothing in a war that cannot be justified...but it was raining today--and it never rains in southern california :) --but everybody was standing outside in the rain, waiting to vote, and you could see it in their eyes: it's over for the bad guys....

[I'm-Nod-Addicted]

Voting is for suckazzzz!

[Hoss]

Voted for "That One" :angry-smi

I hope everyone got out there on all sides and casted their ballots.

[reddragon3668]

Well, I voted for Obama largely in part for the reasons as RJ. I think he (Obama) is less likely to perpetuate American involvement in areas where we do not belong. If Obama wins our foreign relations profile will improve immediately compared to the bully bullshit that Bush has pulled over the past eight years.... I better stop there. I don't think Obama is the answer but I know McCain isn't. Social movements on the grass roots level is what is going to effect change, whether its the war on drug addicts policy or healthcare. Until the American people are motivated to demand change nothing much is going to happen.

[norseman]

I'm one of those poor saps that will be affected by the result,but doesn't get a vote.

The BBC just reported an exit poll from Indiana with Obama winning the state by 55%.If that's anything like true........wow.Then again I don't trust the polls or the BBC.

Hey nick, if you goto cnn.com they have live results updated on the minute, and it looks like BBC lied again.... it says at cnn that in Indiana McCain is leading by 4% at the moment

[nick]

Hey nick, if you goto cnn.com they have live results updated on the minute, and it looks like BBC lied again.... it says at cnn that in Indiana McCain is leading by 4% at the moment

Thanks for the tip,I'll check it out.The BBC has good analysis,but it's pretty slow.

Ah,Obama wins Pennsylvania and New Hampshire.

[Duckfeet]

Yeah, I've no t.v., but I'm listening to NPR, and I've heard a lot of elections in my day, and let me tell you: it's over, Obama is the next president of the United States, and it will be a *rout*.... party's over for the republicans, and democrats rule, legalized heroin, right around the corner...:)

[Narkotikon]

Obama. Simply because I don't get a good feeling from McCain. I don't know a lot about politics. I do not like it. I think it's a pastime of the rich. I do like change however. I think America sucks right now, and even though probably nothing will change, I would rather vote for the possibility of change than the status quo.

I don't like McCain. I think he's an arrogant, rage-o-holic, who's got major mental issues and chips on his shoulders. I also don't like Palin. I thinks she's a modern version of a 1940's pin-up girl for the conservative right. I also think she's a crazy-ass bitch with antiquated beliefs.

[nick]

Hey nick, if you goto cnn.com they have live results updated on the minute, and it looks like BBC lied again.... it says at cnn that in Indiana McCain is leading by 4% at the moment

Ah,the exit poll the BBC are using for Indiana is the democrats own poll.

[Badly Drawn Girl]

Well we are celebrating early in this household. I never thought I'd see this in my lifetime, much less my sons lifetime. It's a beautiful to thing to witness through the eyes of my kids.

[norseman]

Ah,the exit poll the BBC are using for Indiana is the democrats own poll.

I actually love the BBC, we get it here in Canada as well. But I think it is kinda like our CBC (gov funded broadcast) I would say slightly biased to the left.

[nick]

I actually love the BBC, we get it here in Canada as well. But I think it is kinda like our CBC (gov funded broadcast) I would say slightly biased to the left.

Sure,the BBC has a liberal bias-apart from BBC world service which is a bit more even handed

[resorcinol]

Voted for Obama early this morning.

I'm in new york state.

Looks like obama is doing well so far.

Obama wasn't a perfect match candidate for me, but I disagreed with McCain on pretty much every single issue.

[Duckfeet]

This election is so fucking over....

[GetinLow]

I can't help but grinning at those Reds . I voted in the OC and no lines and happy faces:) ! Can you guess who I voted for ? I am in your old stomping grounds Duck with alot of old "John Birchers". Let em eat cake ! .......... Getinlow

[robojunkie]

Obama 171 McCain 81, looks like Opiophile is leading the nation, haha. It's so fucking over, you are absolutely right duck, and that's without Cali, a given, and Florida or Ohio reporting (this is from Reuters).

[Duckfeet]

Obama just takes OH...rout rout rout

[nick]

195 now and that includes Ohio.BBC news now reporting Obama victory as fact.

Question is how bad a beating it is now.

[blutuesday]

CNN reporting Obama took MN, WI, IL, OH, PA, NY and has many more electoral votes that McCain.

My state better not fuck this shit up!

[Duckfeet]

Obama will have what they call a "honeymoon period" once he's in office, just like G.Bush did, and can pass just about any legislation he desires: so we'll find out fairly soon, if he means business...Like most people, I'm full of hope...but I've also been around a while, and know what it's like to get your heart broke by politicians you believe in...but it's better to believe things will be different this time--and get yer heart broke occasionally--than to be cynical....in all areas: like politics, love, and methadone detox, to name a few :p

[resorcinol]

Nobody can say for sure how Obama will actually perform once in office, but I'm certain he'll be better for us than McCain would have been. McCain/Palin would have been an unmitigated disaster for the united states, IMO.

For now, in the present at this very moment, Obama is kicking ass. The cat is in the bag. It's safe to say that Obama is the winner, kinda by a little landslide even. He's now carrying Ohio in addition to PA, and NM... Flordia has 65% of their precincts reporting, and Obama is still holding that 51% to 49% lead there... FL is likely to go to Obama. VA is closer, 50-50, but Obama doesn't need it... it would just be icing on the cake if he got it.

I'm just really happy tonight, don't even need the opies to feel euphorically buzzed atm.

[nick]

McCain HQ is only announcing republican victories.No mention of democrat wins.Kinda says it all.

[Princess]

Obama takes VA! HA!
It's SO fucking over!!

[Raz]

I just gotta see McCains ol boat race when he;s trying to be rational in defeat.....Theres a rumour goin round that ol nutjob actually wears a fuckin corset/girdle?

[resorcinol]

OBAMA just WON FOLKS!!!! He's OVER the 270 needed!!!

[nick]

284,Obama wins.Now we can go back to talking about dope,for four years at least.

[robojunkie]

Yup, OBAMA WINS!, 297 now!

[Duckfeet]

I'm waiting for his acceptance speech, when he legalizes diamorphine maintenance, and tells people to *back off" of junkies...just remember: u heard it first from me...

[limitless_euphoria]

According to CNN, we have a winner based on projection! I'm glad you guys got out and "rocked the vote" ... I know I did. I'm wearing my little "I voted" sticker proudly on my chest (well, not my bare chest but still)... :) Let's hope we don't have another 2000!!!

[nick]

I'm waiting for his acceptance speech, when he legalizes diamorphine maintenance, and tells people to *back off" of junkies...just remember: u heard it first from me...

Yeah,he's going to promise you all 40 acres and a mule as well.

[Princess]

Awe, Duck, have I told you lately that I love you?
I do.
You just made me spit my iced tea across the room.
You're cracking me up tonight!
xoxo

I'm waiting for his acceptance speech, when he legalizes diamorphine maintenance, and tells people to *back off" of junkies...just remember: u heard it first from me...

[Duckfeet]

Got me smiling :)

Awe, Duck, have I told you lately that I love you?
I do.
You just made me spit my iced tea across the room.
You're cracking me up tonight!
xoxo

[Narkotikon]

Obama will have what they call a "honeymoon period" once he's in office, just like G.Bush did, and can pass just about any legislation he desires: so we'll find out fairly soon, if he means business...Like most people, I'm full of hope...but I've also been around a while, and know what it's like to get your heart broke by politicians you believe in...but it's better to believe things will be different this time--and get yer heart broke occasionally--than to be cynical....in all areas: like politics, love, and methadone detox, to name a few :p

Let's hope he amends the DATA 2000 Act to include Schedule II drugs. I so want morphine maintenance at home :-) That's really all they'd have to do, isn't it? Just reword it to allow Schedule II's also?

I'm glad Obama won. I'm in a really optimistic mood right now, which is rare for me.

[clinton]

thank the lord
its a new day in the united states

[Boxcar]

it may sound lame to most... but JM had givin his entire life to this country... thats a long time to love and care and protect. it shows compassion, it shows loyalty and it shows patriotism. i mean its just one aspect or one thot. but damn dude, he DEDICATED his life to this place.

i got somethin else i wanna say but, i feel too fuckin alone in this matter, so i guess im just gonna hold it in

[robojunkie]

Speak your mind boxcar, just cause most voted for Obama including me, doesn't mean we don't want to hear other viewpoints. That's what freedom is, we still have that in this country, freedom of differing opinions that is.

I respect the guy as a vet and someone who believes in what he is doing, I just strongly disagree with his hard ass attitude about a lot of shit.

[pizzaboy]

it may sound lame to most... but JM had givin his entire life to this country... thats a long time to love and care and protect. it shows compassion, it shows loyalty and it shows patriotism. i mean its just one aspect or one thot. but damn dude, he DEDICATED his life to this place.

i got somethin else i wanna say but, i feel too fuckin alone in this matter, so i guess im just gonna hold it in


McCain has given his entire life to his country and during his speech I didn't hear any indication of retirement.

I had voted for him in the past when he ran against...that man...who is president now. I felt he was a much better candidate back in 2000 and that somewhere along the ways he sold many of his ideals to earn the nomination.

I don't have any loss of respect for him. He merely ran up against history...and he ran up against a tanking economy that the electorate blames on his fellow party member.

People are calling this a landslide but I feel McCain held his own pretty good. He won't run for president again, but I doubt we've heard the last of him.

[Duckfeet]

Many of of us feel that way, and are sick of conservative "chickenhawks"...and McCaine was a trueblue hero, and went thru hells none us will ever comprehend, and I too rooted for him back when he was straitforward and fighting Bush back in 2000...I'm a vietnam veteran, and wanted to see "one of us" get in office, who actually knew war...

*But!* ... most of us have been sickened by the policies of the last eight years, and somewhere in the last *four* years, McCaine seemed to have figured he wanted to be president more than he wanted to be a "straight talking maverick"...and he lost, and it's tough shit, but for most of us, this is as hopeful a day in America as I've seen in about fifty years, or whenever it was JFK got elected...It doesn't matter how people voted, it's just our country really is in a terrible mess, economically, and in a two foreign wars that we are *loosing* and I fear/presume, we will quickly pull out, just like we did in Vietnam, and so all the death and destruction will have been for nothing...and it really was, all for nothing, and we'll have a whole new generation of bitter war veterans, drinking, suicidal, and strung out on heroin, and the few survivors--like me--will probably get to see it all again, long after I'm gone....there's an old Pete Seeger song, based on a japanese poem, called "When will they ever learn" ... or, to the few of us who came of age in the hippy days, it was called "Where have all the flowers gone," which is really a very bittersweet song about the willingness of every generation to sacrice their young, to wars, as young men, anyway, will always be attracted to them...I was...

I understand conservative feelings--I'm a hardcore libertarian, and sent money and voted for, Ron Paul, myself--but McCaine's time is over, and he blew it, and that has nothing to do with his honorable and admirable service, back when it was uncool to serve, he put it all on the line....but it's over...


it may sound lame to most... but JM had givin his entire life to this country... thats a long time to love and care and protect. it shows compassion, it shows loyalty and it shows patriotism. i mean its just one aspect or one thot. but damn dude, he DEDICATED his life to this place.

i got somethin else i wanna say but, i feel too fuckin alone in this matter, so i guess im just gonna hold it in

[reddragon3668]

I think you hit the nail on the head. I think that allot of votes for Obama were votes against Bush. If the economy was doing well and we were not involved in 2 wars that the American people are seeing more and more as unnecessary, I think the election would have been completely different. In fact, I think that these issues totally eclipsed the race issue, which made us look good as a country. However, most people I know, including myself, voted for Obama not because we thought he was the ticket and had the ability to change anything per se, or because we wanted to make history, but simply because we could not separate McCain from Bush and just could not stomach anymore Bush, period. So yes, I agree that McCain ran up against history and everything simply fell in place perfectly to give us an African American president. And, from his acceptance speach last night, I have higher hopes today that he will succeed.





::snip::

I don't have any loss of respect for him. He merely ran up against history...and he ran up against a tanking economy that the electorate blames on his fellow party member.

People are calling this a landslide but I feel McCain held his own pretty good. He won't run for president again, but I doubt we've heard the last of him.

[Hannah]

I voted for JM because he supports life, my cousin Carlon had a difficult pregnancy and did consider aborting the child, thank God she did not, because I've gotten the chance to hold her bright eyed baby! :) My other cousen William entered Drextil University soon to be involved in the markiting world and needed a strong leader who would support his efforts of free entirprize, capatlisem, and free trade...My other cousen Edward is now on the USS Ronald Ragen, he needed a comander and cheaf who wouldn't shrink the millitary but supoprt those who give there lives daily for the service of our country...These are the reasons I voted for JM...I'm seriously worried now, as I never have been...The number 1 liberal in the USA is Obama, 3rd is Biden...I fear that isn't what our contry needs...I don't support there platforms and I certinaly don't put my stamp of approval on what they will do in the months and years a head...I will be protesting in DC and makeing frequent trips there aswell as writeing my congressman whom I didn't vote for but he still needs to hear my voice...:)

[Princess]

I didn't get to your other "reasons" because I'm stuck on this one right now. HOW THE HELL IS THIS A REASON TO BAN ABORTION?? Your cousin had a CHOICE and made it. Good for her. How does this scenario call for a ban on abortion?

Help me out here...

I voted for JM because he supports life, my cousin Carlon had a difficult pregnancy and did consider aborting the child, thank God she did not, because I've gotten the chance to hold her bright eyed baby! :)

[Duckfeet]

Absolutely, and it's hard not to get hopeful, and even a little emtional (which could be the damned day six of mdone detox :D) ... but anway, I'm like most people in my little beach community: *hopeful*, maybe things can be different, and we so want Obama to be the man we hope he is...and no matter how many times I've felt let down in my life, I know Obama has a huge mandate, and that democrats have majorities in Congress, and good things can happen....

Sure, late at night, when I'm laying there, I get cynical, think Ron Paul, Ron Paul, oh how I wish it was you...but I'm inconsistent, and in the morning I was like many today, thinking America might change...and my big thing is to bring the young soldiers back from Iraq and Afghanistan, let them come home, have lovers and lives and opiate problems, and joy and misery, and all the rest, please don't condemn any more of them to the brutal ending, so many of them have already faced...has nothing to do with politics: war is necessary at times, but not these two wars: we are eating our young....


I think you hit the nail on the head. I think that allot of votes for Obama were votes against Bush. If the economy was doing well and we were not involved in 2 wars that the American people are seeing more and more as unnecessary, I think the election would have been completely different. In fact, I think that these issues totally eclipsed the race issue, which made us look good as a country. However, most people I know, including myself, voted for Obama not because we thought he was the ticket and had the ability to change anything per se, or because we wanted to make history, but simply because we could not separate McCain from Bush and just could not stomach anymore Bush, period. So yes, I agree that McCain ran up against history and everything simply fell in place perfectly to give us an African American president. And, from his acceptance speach last night, I have higher hopes today that he will succeed.

[clinton]

I voted for JM because he supports life, my cousin Carlon had a difficult pregnancy and did consider aborting the child, thank God she did not, because I've gotten the chance to hold her bright eyed baby! :) My other cousen William entered Drextil University soon to be involved in the markiting world and needed a strong leader who would support his efforts of free entirprize, capatlisem, and free trade...My other cousen Edward is now on the USS Ronald Ragen, he needed a comander and cheaf who wouldn't shrink the millitary but supoprt those who give there lives daily for the service of our country...These are the reasons I voted for JM...I'm seriously worried now, as I never have been...The number 1 liberal in the USA is Obama, 3rd is Biden...I fear that isn't what our contry needs...I don't support there platforms and I certinaly don't put my stamp of approval on what they will do in the months and years a head...I will be protesting in DC and makeing frequent trips there aswell as writeing my congressman whom I didn't vote for but he still needs to hear my voice...:)





jesus.........:mad:

[Hannah]

I didn't get to your other "reasons" because I'm stuck on this one right now. HOW THE HELL IS THIS A REASON TO BAN ABORTION?? Your cousin had a CHOICE and made it. Good for her. How does this scenario call for a ban on abortion?

Help me out here...

Your tone is very condescending...I am stating why I voted for JM, name the reasons you voted the other way...My mother is a labor and delivery nurse, who by the way has been witness to several abortions that have never left her memory...She has had the oppertunity to bring life into the world, and on 2 occuations take it out...My question to you is why should one child be allowed to go to the nickue unit (where they care for early termed babies) and yet other children of the same age and or size who are 'unwanted' are allowed to be exterminated, all in the name of convense?...

jesus.........:mad:

Why are you so upset? :(

[pharmboy]

The first thing Obama should do is get rid of the electoral college.

We have computers now, we can keep track of the popular vote.

Lets use them. OR if not that the EC and the pop. Vote must agree

or we hold another election until they do.

[Raisin]

What the fuck is convense?

[robojunkie]

Well Hannah, its about choice isn't it? On one hand there is a sentient autonomous being (ie the woman) and on the other a completely dependent, incompletely developed essentially unaware being. The two are not symbiotic, one is utterly dependent on theother, and if one must have dominion over the other, and one must in a world of choice it must be the woman who holds dominion. Otherwise the state holds dominion over all woman's reproductive choices, making the choice for them (in principle, we all know about coat hangers and underground abortions, us junkies can likely identify more than most, man or woman, but you aren't a junky and likely have never been pregnant, I presume since you are anti-choice and never once mention being a mother).

Kinda like the choice I have everyday to ban or not ban trolly non-opiophile opiophile members. Don't take it the wrong way your opinions are appropriate for this thread, just cut down on the attention whoring elsewhere, mmmm-k (in my best Andy Dick voice)?

[candy]

I didn't get to your other "reasons" because I'm stuck on this one right now. HOW THE HELL IS THIS A REASON TO BAN ABORTION?? Your cousin had a CHOICE and made it. Good for her. How does this scenario call for a ban on abortion?

Help me out here...


Is she referring to the state Initiative 4 WAITING PERIOD AND PARENTAL NOTIFICATION BEFORE TERMINATION OF MINOR'S PREGNANCY?

[Narkotikon]

I voted for JM because he supports life, my cousin Carlon had a difficult pregnancy and did consider aborting the child, thank God she did not, because I've gotten the chance to hold her bright eyed baby! :) My other cousen William entered Drextil University soon to be involved in the markiting world and needed a strong leader who would support his efforts of free entirprize, capatlisem, and free trade...My other cousen Edward is now on the USS Ronald Ragen, he needed a comander and cheaf who wouldn't shrink the millitary but supoprt those who give there lives daily for the service of our country...These are the reasons I voted for JM...I'm seriously worried now, as I never have been...The number 1 liberal in the USA is Obama, 3rd is Biden...I fear that isn't what our contry needs...I don't support there platforms and I certinaly don't put my stamp of approval on what they will do in the months and years a head...I will be protesting in DC and makeing frequent trips there aswell as writeing my congressman whom I didn't vote for but he still needs to hear my voice...:)

That's great that your relatives do that if they want to, but not everyone wants to. I mean, this is America. It's supposed to be the land of the free, where you can lead your life the way you want to. How in the hell can you call yourself an American if you support officials who want to take away those rights? I mean, if YOU don't like abortion, don't have an abortion. If YOU like the military, serve in the military. If YOU like capitalism, then be a capitalist. But, DON'T you dare tell me that I have to do that stuff, because I don't like it.

The reason I don't like conservatives and Republicans is because they tend to blanket the world with their beliefs. It's either their way or the highway. Get the fuck off the pulpit, not everyone thinks that way or even wants to, because we're all human and we're all individuals. My beliefs are not likely compatible with yours, but I sure as hell am not going to vote for people to make them think the way I do like conservatives do. I'd much rather have a liberal in office, because I feel like they enact things that give people a choice. For instance, they keep abortion legal. How in the hell is that affecting pro-lifers? I mean, again, if you don't like abortion, don't have one. But don't try to make me follow your beliefs. If anything I would call that unpatriotic.

Also, if you don't like gay marriage, then don't be fucking gay and get married. But don't you dare tell me that I can't. I also don't think you have to support some fucked up war in order to be patriotic. You don't have to agree with the president to be patriotic. I don't like Republicans or George W. Bush or his father, and I'll be the first to say it. I think they're greedy, old men, and in the case of the current president, really fucking stupid and ill-equipped to run a country. But, that's just my opinion. You don't have to like it, and you don't have to agree with it, but you do have to fucking respect it. You can't say you respect other peoples' opinions when you vote for people to only fight for your beliefs, or work to make the world the way you want it. Other people live in the world too. I find that very selfish.

And I'm sick to death of morality issues playing any part in elections. There is supposed to be a separation between church and state in the this country. Gay marriage and abortion are NOT political issues, they are moral issues and therefore inherently religious. Do I believe in gay marriage, hell no, because marriage is a sacred institution conferred on a couple by a church. Do I believe in gay civil unions, or marriage licenses just like any straight couple would get, hell yes. I pay taxes, I do what I"m supposed to do (aside from the drug use thing, but I don't feel like that's anyone's business but my own), so why should I have to be hated and told I can't get a marriage certificate from the government, which would allow for spousal benefits, etc. if I chose to get married? It's not like the government is conferring a religious rite upon straight couples to get a marriage license. That's what the church wedding is for. And I quite frankly couldn't care if a church doesn't want to marry me, but my own fucking government? Talk about second-class citizens. I mean, grow the fuck up. If you don't like gay people, that's fine, that's your choice, but don't you dare tell me what I can and can't fucking do. I really can't stand this morality bullshit. And I feel like people who fall for it and vote according to moral issues are either 1.) greedy, selfish people whoa are closed minded and want to make their country / world exactly like they think, or in other words get off on forcing other people to believe what they believe; or 2.) are just fucking stupid.

So, vote for conservatives if you want, but don't pawn it off as they're some savior of the world. If anything, they're the fucking destroyers.

Edit: My use of "you" is partly referring to you, Hannah, and also partly used in a general sense. The use of "you" about the gay stuff is mainly in a general sense, so it's not directed just at you, but to all conservatives.

The main point is that we don't live in a theocracy. Yes, we are one nation under God, but there is no mention to which god, or how you're supposed to worship that god, and what beliefs are required. That's one of the things that makes America great. I just wish it would get back to that. I feel like in our own time, people are more concerned about pushing their beliefs on other people in the name of God. Like, oh, you have to be pro-life because that's the god-fearing thing to do. Well, maybe, if you believe in that type of god, or in that belief system. Not everyone does. This isn't a theocracy, and trying to pass moral legislation is akin to theocracy in my book. Morality is religious. We're supposed to have a separation between church (religion) and state (politics). Why that is such a fucking difficult thing to understand for some people I don't understand. It's quite simple: if you don't like something about my morals, or another person's morals, then don't do it, but don't try to force your beliefs on me or someone else. What makes you think your beliefs are more important than mine? That's why I think people who do that are inherently greedy and selfish. They're basically telling the "lesser" people (i.e., those who don't agree with them) that they're somehow better. Fuck off to that shit. The world would be a MUCH better place if everyone just worried about themselves, and how to lead their own lives, than forcing their beliefs and lives onto everyone else. I mean, it's so bad now that conservatives in America aren't even just targeting its own citizens anymore, now it's them against everyone else in the world. What right do they have to tell other countries and the people in those countries how to behave? That's fucking bullshit. People need to fucking worry about themselves.

[candy]

Your tone is very condescending...I am stating why I voted for JM, name the reasons you voted the other way...My mother is a labor and delivery nurse, who by the way has been witness to several abortions that have never left her memory...She has had the oppertunity to bring life into the world, and on 2 occuations take it out...My question to you is why should one child be allowed to go to the nickue unit (where they care for early termed babies) and yet other children of the same age and or size who are 'unwanted' are allowed to be exterminated, all in the name of convense?...


HANNAH,
I TOO AM A NURSE AND UNLESS YOUR MOTHER WORKED IN AN ABORTION CLINIC, SHE WOULD NOT HAVE SEE SEVERAL ABORTIONS IN A HOSPITAL UNIT.
MAYBE YOU SHOULD GO READ UP ON ROE VS. WADE AND GET A BIT OF INFO ON ABORTIONS.
BABIES CAN ONLY SUSTAIN LIFE AT A CERTAIN GESTATIONAL AGE, IF AN ABORTION(NORMALLY CALLED A D&C) IN A HOSPITAL IS DONE BECAUSE THE FETUS HAS DIED OR THE MOTHER HAS PARTIALLY ABORTED HER OWN FETUS AND NEEDS TO HAVE THE REMAINDER OF THE UTERINE CONTENTS TAKEN OUT.

AND HOSPITALS DON'T PICK AND CHOOSE BABIES TO QUOTE YOU,"WHY SHOULD ONE CHILD BE ALLOWED TO GO TO THE nickue unit (ACTUALLY SPELLED NICU) AND(where the care for early termed babies)AND YET OTHER CHILDREN OF THE SAME AGE OR SIZE WHO ARE UNWANTED ARE ALLOWED TO BE EXTERMINATED , ALL IN THE NAME OF convense?..." I assume you mean convenience or converse? Please use spell check, so that we can better understand what you are trying to say!

Hannah, babies who are unwanted are not disposed of or exterminated! And please do not EMBARRASS YOURSELF by stating that it is so done.
As I said, I am a NURSE and worked in the NICU too and we did not have a little dumpster for unwanted babies.
It is just not done. And please do not argue your case on this. There is more than one nurse on this site with experience in both the NICU and Obstetrics.

IF YOU WANT TO CONTINUE TO POST, PLEASE DO NOT POST SUCH INACCURACIES AS YOU DID!



Hannah, I really agree that you should go and protest in DC. I am sure there are many who would like to hear what you have to say!

Well Hannah, its about choice isn't it? On one hand there is a sentient autonomous being (ie the woman) and on the other a completely dependent, incompletely developed essentially unaware being. The two are not symbiotic, one is utterly dependent on theother, and if one must have dominion over the other, and one must in a world of choice it must be the woman who holds dominion. Otherwise the state holds dominion over all woman's reproductive choices, making the choice for them (in principle, we all know about coat hangers and underground abortions, us junkies can likely identify more than most, man or woman, but you aren't a junky and likely have never been pregnant, I presume since you are anti-choice and never once mention being a mother).

Kinda like the choice I have everyday to ban or not ban trolly non-opiophile opiophile members. Don't take it the wrong way your opinions are appropriate for this thread, just cut down on the attention whoring elsewhere, mmmm-k (in my best Andy Dick voice)?

Don't even argue with her about this issue: I worked in hospitals and in the NICU, they don't do abortions in a hospital unless medically necessary for the mother's health.
If you want an abortion, you go to a clinic, not a hospital unless there is some complication.
I told her to read up on Roe vs. Wade!

[robojunkie]

Thats the thing with trolls, we all wanna cross the bridge but we all end up getting taxed. Its bizarre really we all know better than to debate her on stuff, this especially (I am aware of the general precedents vis a vis PP/clinics, I don't think she is though). I should know better than to get sucked in by her obvious trolling but I just can't help it I'm so easily baited...

[WarmCyanide]

Thats the thing with trolls, we all wanna cross the bridge but we all end up getting taxed. Its bizarre really we all know better than to debate her on stuff, this especially (I am aware of the general precedents vis a vis PP/clinics, I don't think she is though). I should know better than to get sucked in by her obvious trolling but I just can't help it I'm so easily baited...


hhah yah robo you suckah

[candy]

Thats the thing with trolls, we all wanna cross the bridge but we all end up getting taxed. Its bizarre really we all know better than to debate her on stuff, this especially (I am aware of the general precedents vis a vis PP/clinics, I don't think she is though). I should know better than to get sucked in by her obvious trolling but I just can't help it I'm so easily baited...


Oh, no shit! It is like a high in itself when she posts. Like tuning in for your fav. show on HBO.

[pizzaboy]

I think you hit the nail on the head. I think that allot of votes for Obama were votes against Bush. If the economy was doing well and we were not involved in 2 wars that the American people are seeing more and more as unnecessary, I think the election would have been completely different. In fact, I think that these issues totally eclipsed the race issue, which made us look good as a country. However, most people I know, including myself, voted for Obama not because we thought he was the ticket and had the ability to change anything per se, or because we wanted to make history, but simply because we could not separate McCain from Bush and just could not stomach anymore Bush, period. So yes, I agree that McCain ran up against history and everything simply fell in place perfectly to give us an African American president. And, from his acceptance speach last night, I have higher hopes today that he will succeed.


Yeah. I am thrilled to witness, and be a part of, history..but frankly I would have voted for Mr. Ed if he were running against the Republicans.

I have a long history of disgust with this administration that goes back 20 years. I can't wait for January to bear witness to the final gasps of what I deem the second worst period in our history.

Truthfully, I feel sorry for Republicans...they've been duped much worse than me. It was their ideals, not mine, that got sold out by our current occupuant. I knew we were screwed...they didn't see it coming.

I'm still happy and proud for and of Mr. Obama. He won it fair and square.

[Raz]

Are their really any altruistic politicians out there?........Man all they do is say what "they think" the majority of voters want to hear.....Difference this time around, a lot of poor black people actually got off their arses and voted....

Whereas b4 they knew their vote wouldnt change a fuckin thing, so why bother....This time it did change something; the color of the geezer in office.At least something they can identify with.....

But in reality, he;s justa a Harvard educated cocanut......And once reality of office sets in, it will be remarkable/miracle if the statas quo actually changes one fuckin bit........

[Duckfeet]

Yer kewl just the way u r, RJ...no changes necessary...


Thats the thing with trolls, we all wanna cross the bridge but we all end up getting taxed. Its bizarre really we all know better than to debate her on stuff, this especially (I am aware of the general precedents vis a vis PP/clinics, I don't think she is though). I should know better than to get sucked in by her obvious trolling but I just can't help it I'm so easily baited...

[reddragon3668]

Candy, I am not sure Hannah was saying that her mother saw the abortions in a hospital. Also, I wonder if she was trying to say that preterm babies can be treated in the NICU while another fetus of the same age and viability can be aborted. This may be totally wrong but that was how I read her post (I know nothing of hannah so I certainly am not taking up for her).

I am a reluctant pro-choice advocate. Roe v. Wade is valid only if you accept its definition of life. Thankfully, the number of abortions in this country has declined. Better education, access to birthcontrol, adoption, and more aid to unwed mothers has been successful in this area. Hopefully, this trend will continue. Personally, I support life from the womb to the tomb. So many people are so concerned about a fetus whose life is the least viable but have nothing to say about the millions of food insecure children in this country alone. Millions of people go without adequate healthcare; we are destroying our environment at an unprecedented rate. How can we be concerned about the life of a fetus, yet have no proclivity to protect the world into which the child is born? We must be consistent with our ethic of life.

Okay, sorry for the the soapbox! The more passionate I am the stupidier I become. :D



HANNAH,
I TOO AM A NURSE AND UNLESS YOUR MOTHER WORKED IN AN ABORTION CLINIC, SHE WOULD NOT HAVE SEE SEVERAL ABORTIONS IN A HOSPITAL UNIT.
MAYBE YOU SHOULD GO READ UP ON ROE VS. WADE AND GET A BIT OF INFO ON ABORTIONS.
BABIES CAN ONLY SUSTAIN LIFE AT A CERTAIN GESTATIONAL AGE, IF AN ABORTION(NORMALLY CALLED A D&C) IN A HOSPITAL IS DONE BECAUSE THE FETUS HAS DIED OR THE MOTHER HAS PARTIALLY ABORTED HER OWN FETUS AND NEEDS TO HAVE THE REMAINDER OF THE UTERINE CONTENTS TAKEN OUT.

AND HOSPITALS DON'T PICK AND CHOOSE BABIES TO QUOTE YOU,"WHY SHOULD ONE CHILD BE ALLOWED TO GO TO THE nickue unit (ACTUALLY SPELLED NICU) AND(where the care for early termed babies)AND YET OTHER CHILDREN OF THE SAME AGE OR SIZE WHO ARE UNWANTED ARE ALLOWED TO BE EXTERMINATED , ALL IN THE NAME OF convense?..." I assume you mean convenience or converse? Please use spell check, so that we can better understand what you are trying to say!

Hannah, babies who are unwanted are not disposed of or exterminated! And please do not EMBARRASS YOURSELF by stating that it is so done.
As I said, I am a NURSE and worked in the NICU too and we did not have a little dumpster for unwanted babies.
It is just not done. And please do not argue your case on this. There is more than one nurse on this site with experience in both the NICU and Obstetrics.

IF YOU WANT TO CONTINUE TO POST, PLEASE DO NOT POST SUCH INACCURACIES AS YOU DID!



Hannah, I really agree that you should go and protest in DC. I am sure there are many who would like to hear what you have to say!



Don't even argue with her about this issue: I worked in hospitals and in the NICU, they don't do abortions in a hospital unless medically necessary for the mother's health.
If you want an abortion, you go to a clinic, not a hospital unless there is some complication.
I told her to read up on Roe vs. Wade!

[candy]

No offense to you Reddragon, but I think she was just ranting about something she knows nothing about. I re-read her post about a dozen times before I responded.
I won't get into what happens in the NICU and to premature babies, but no one aborts babies at that gestational age where they are viable out of the womb.
And no baby is picked to be the one they keep and the one they get rid of.

I don't want to get into an argument over her, but she has quite a bit to deal with and her information is not correct and at times irrational.

She just needs some guidance and I believe she is in the wrong site altogether.
But, I am allowed to have my own opinion and you can have yours.

I hope this makes some sense!

[Duckfeet]

When I was young, my first *real* girlfriend, after I got out of Vietnam, had been forced to go to Mexico City, all alone, frightened, to get an abortion, and without knowing shit about politics, I knew it was wrong: that women carry the baby, and that it's their decision...if I had to carry the baby, I damn sure wouldn't allow a bunch of women to tell me what to do...it's always been that simple for me, regardless of which side of the politcal spectrum I've been on...

But, I have to admit, that most women I know, who got abortions, got them strictly for "convenience" sake...in other words, they just didn't want to be saddled with a kid...

But I come from the generation, where most women I knew *would* have had the kid, if only the man would commit to loving them, and sticking...and most men of my generation...might do it a while, and then would split...saying "fuck this..." and head to Florida, right...

Of course, online databases ended that little game, and many of you might not remember, just how scornful society was of "unwed mothers", I mean, it was *horrible*: they could not get jobs, usually had no choice but welfare, and men could wander off and be surfers in california, and just sort of "put it behind" them...women didn't have that option...or wouldn't take it....and men were rabbits...

I know this because I've sponsored countless men, in AA, and just about every one over the age of thirty, seems to be all pissed off that "child support" tracked him down....

I could go on and on: but men have no right to say anything about this: the women can battle it out as they see fit: men always headed south at the first stormy weather, so for us to get all religious or moralistic about 'the unborn' , doesn't wash, and sickens me...

[nick]

Abortion is a terrible thing.The only thing worse is a law restricting it.

[Duckfeet]

Exactly...and I feel the same way about heroin addiction: a terrible thing, only thing worse is the laws that destroy us, and make us criminals...

Abortion is a terrible thing.The only thing worse is a law restricting it.

[nick]

Exactly...and I feel the same way about heroin addiction: a terrible thing, only thing worse is the laws that destroy us, and make us criminals...

Sure bro,any imposition of a criminal justice solution on what is a social problem is cruel and doomed to fail.

[OxyContinuously]

yeah i'm not a fan of abortion either....way i see it, is if ur not ready for a child, then how bout practicing safe sex? or, not have sex? what's wrong w/ either of those options?

[Duckfeet]

Oh I agree with all that, and I've seen terrible travesties of justice, where men were totally abused of, and lied about, so the women could get child support, and on and on, no saints on either side of that picture, usuallly....but I think it's a different issue...and again, u gotta remember, I was raised when no matter *how* she got pregnant, whether raped by Pop or Uncle, or just out having some fun--these women were cast aside and disowned and often friendless...I had a neighbor in the fifties, who had a son, and I wasn't allowed to play with him, because---whisper, whisper: "She's an unwed mother..." A nice lady to, seemed lonely as hell...none of the "good people" would talk to her, and her son too, was treated harshly...and the father? Who knows...probably laughing in some bar somewhere...wasn't his problem....

So whatever strides women have made in this area, even if the outcome can be rough for us boys...they have fought long and hard for, with not much help from anybody....


yeah i'm not a fan of abortion either....way i see it, is if ur not ready for a child, then how bout practicing safe sex? or, not have sex? what's wrong w/ either of those options?

[pizzaboy]

Abortion is a terrible thing.The only thing worse is a law restricting it.


Yeah.

I was going to write a long, rambling, incoherent post how I feel about both sides in this debate...you pretty much summed it all up with one sentence.

[bigNasty]

Yeah.

I was going to write a long, rambling, incoherent post how I feel about both sides in this debate...you pretty much summed it all up with one sentence.
Why is a law restricting it bad? And i don't wanna hear about what about in the case of rape or incest nonsense or what if the mother's life was at stake.

If you don't wanna post it here on this thread, just PM me(or whatever we call them now).

And try not to get all emotional and upset as i'm pretty emotional against it but I won't insult other people with a different point of view. I want an intelligent argument for abortion being legal. I feel like it's barbaric(sp) of our country to allow so many abortions each year and it's just kinda common-place now and women that have the procedure done aren't even looked down upon anymore nor are they even questioned about their reasons for doing it.

[pizzaboy]

Why is a law restricting it bad? And i don't wanna hear about what about in the case of rape or incest nonsense or what if the mother's life was at stake.

If you don't wanna post it here on this thread, just PM me(or whatever we call them now).

And try not to get all emotional and upset as i'm pretty emotional against it but I won't insult other people with a different point of view. I want an intelligent argument for abortion being legal. I feel like it's barbaric(sp) of our country to allow so many abortions each year and it's just kinda common-place now and women that have the procedure done aren't even looked down upon anymore nor are they even questioned about their reasons for doing it.

LOL:D Why would I get emotional about abortion? I'm a man baby! A big, hairy 'ol redneck boy to boot...as I pointed out in another post, I'm no mathmetician, but I imagine the odds against me ever needing an abortion to be pretty steep.

I just didn't want to argue about it because I'm a lazy em-effer and this is one explosive subject in this country (US) and I suspect, people being people, that its explosive in other countries as well. Why, of all people, did you call me out? I was content to quote Nick, make my little comment and return to my Madden game. Now I have to write a fucking thesis.

I know I'm going to regret this...but here we go.

My position, so we are clear, follows thusly: I'm against abortion. I agree that life is precious. I'm even willing to concede that life begins at conception, although frankly, I can't prove that nor have I read anything that does. I'm more into pornography than science..let the eggheads wrestle each other over that one.

Hell, I'll even take it one step further...I'll allow that life begins pre-conception. If every sperm and egg represent potential life then certainly every male maturbation and every sperm sample represents an end to that potential...and while every menstruation, at least as I understand it, (not a scientist, you will find that a recurring theme amongst my posts)doesn't kill a potential life, it certainly represents hiding the body.

Where was I. Oh yeah.

Now...I've been a bad, bad boy during my nearly half century of life, and I've been married twice. Either I'm defective, or just plain lucky (or unlucky, as it turns out), I've never gotten a single partner pregnant. If I had I assure that no matter what the circumstances in my life I would not have supported, paid for, approved of or condoned an abortion. Ain't for me. I'm not saying my word would have been THE word, I'm just stating what my word would be.

I'd also like to point out that since I was a child I've understood the purpose and proper use of various widely available contraceptives. I can't say I've been perfect, but I can say I'm batting pretty good.

All that being said I completely support the right of women to obtain abortions, within reason, and I do not support any legislation that defines what the term "within reason" represents. How could I be such a two-faced bastart? Kindly allow me to explain.

First off..abortion was legal and easy to obtain in this country until some 'ol boys figured out it wasn't loose moraled black women getting them...it was overwhelmingly middle class white women. Scandal! Shame! Abortion became illegal...and the abortion rate began to climb.

We've all heard the horror stories, no need to recount them here..but don't kid yourself, the back alley abortion was a very common occurence...very often resulting in a health complication for the recipient. Contraception wasn't explained, or condoned...people had sex and women got pregnant. If you didn't want to risk it you had a baby whether you wanted it or not.

No choice, no opportunity...no chance really...if you got pregnant you stayed home and raised it. That's what women did. It's not a bad choice...but what if you wanted to be a doctor? Too bad momma...ya should have kept those knees locked.

Then came the sixties....and all that shit ended. Women wanted more and they've been fighting for more ever since. That's why abortion is legal now...women are not willing to be saddled with one choice.

You might say abstinence is the answer to this issue. Don't have sex and you won't get pregnant, right? Well, unless you are the Holy Virgin that's a fact.

Bullshit. You can no more teach abstinence to a human being than you can teach calculus to a spider monkey. Our hormones overwhelm us, especially when we are young...you might get ten out of a hundred to wear those little bracelets or "marry" their fathers, but I bet eight of them will feel a man's touch before they marry. I'm sorry to report this, but humans are just really, really smart animals. Animals have an overwhelming urge to reproduce. Reproduction requires sex. I could go further if you like...throw in some porn, whips and that cool leather sling that hangs from the ceiling, but I think you get the point. If you are breathing, you are fucking...or pissed off because you ain't.

So here we are now...women will not allow themselves to be limited to the bedroom and the schoolyard anymore. Many can't afford daycare...many don't want their careers derailed by a child. It's hard enough to compete in a man's world, and let's face it, it still is...its even harder with a child or two. Abstinence isn't gonna happen...that leaves abortion.

I've said it before...I don't approve of it, I don't support it...but I will die in a hail of bullets before I let that law get changed. I could never, as free-thinking American, support a law, or a repealing of existing laws, that sends over half of my country's population back, in status, over a hundred years.

And let's add some further clarity...any law that even slighty dents this basic right is made with the full intention of landing the big fish...the total repeal of Roe v. Wade. Let's not dance around it...that's the intent of every single law made restricting abortion..to be a stepping stone.

I'm sure the so-called "pro-life", umm, "movement" has plenty of people among its rank and file members that are true of heart and truly believe they are trying to save lives. Maybe they are. Don't kid yourself or insult my intelligence by arguing otherwise...their leaders could care less about that. They want to make a name for themselves while they ressurect June Cleaver. It's the nature of leadership, sadly, to have a different agenda than those they lead.

Ok. I wrote too much...I'll wrap it up. I know I'm a smart-ass, and as a smart-ass I should have the answer, right? I don't, but I do have a suggestion. We agree that abortion is wrong. We agree, I hope, that abortion is caused by unwanted pregnancies. If we allow that then we must also agree that pregnancies are caused by sex, can we not?

We may disagree that sex is the unavoidable consequence of being an animal on Earth, but for the purpose of conclusion I will surmise that you agree with that too. We can't stop sex...but we can stop conception.

Birth control is widely available, often low cost, and comes in many shapes and sizes and flavors. You can take a pill or spray some foam or put a dragon on your pecker. Why are we not using it? It's effectivness upon proper usage is in the high ninetieth percentile.

We need to teach our children this. Early. They are maturing much faster than we did. I think birth control should be taught in schools. Statistics prove that birth control doesn't make us have more sex...it only makes us get pregnant less.

Less pregnancies=less abortions. (It's simple math, not science, therefore I feel qualified to write the equation.)

We can all be happy here.

[bigNasty]

LOL:D Why would I get emotional about abortion? I'm a man baby! A big, hairy 'ol redneck boy to boot...as I pointed out in another post, I'm no mathmetician, but I imagine the odds against me ever needing an abortion to be pretty steep.

I just didn't want to argue about it because I'm a lazy em-effer and this is one explosive subject in this country (US) and I suspect, people being people, that its explosive in other countries as well. Why, of all people, did you call me out? I was content to quote Nick, make my little comment and return to my Madden game. Now I have to write a fucking thesis.

I know I'm going to regret this...but here we go.


Haha, I haven't read past this point but MY BAD for calling you out when you didn't feel like writing a long ass post. Let me read further and see how you defend abortion

[pizzaboy]

Haha, I haven't read past this point but MY BAD for calling you out when you didn't feel like writing a long ass post. Let me read further and see how you defend abortion

Take your time...I need to go pick the wife up from class. You can deal with my shit later :)

[Duckfeet]

Because abortions happen anyway: just like using dope, or buying guns, or anything else the gov't decides to "make illegal..." and then women are drive to terrible extemes...it would be easy to thro the same arguments u use right back at you: but the truth is--sadly--this *is* an emotional issue, and usually people try to use deifinitions, or exclusionary arguments--no talk of incest, etc--and talk about "the unborn" w/those hareKrishna eyes...

My stepmother, who I got pregnant had to go see some quack in Peru, because it was illegal down there, and they were able to force a miscarriage, and she did all right...but it kind of sucks, too: like most things, there is no easy answer, and most of us try to weigh which is better options: forcing women back to what my 1st girlfriend had to go thru in Mexico, or allowing legal abortions...again, you all are younger, but women were second class citizens when I was growing up, and they were forced--by just these kinds of laws, into the most horrid deathly doctor's offices, to have abortions, after daddy, or uncle joe had had his way...or, as usual, the men always diappeared, leaving the woman to get the scorn and destitution that came along with being a single mother...

Nick did put it well, but yer rite, it's emotional, and it's obvious from your--and my--post, that this is not a subject that will be discussed reasonably, as neither side gives an inch...and both side think they have the moral high ground...

Why is a law restricting it bad? And i don't wanna hear about what about in the case of rape or incest nonsense or what if the mother's life was at stake.

If you don't wanna post it here on this thread, just PM me(or whatever we call them now).

And try not to get all emotional and upset as i'm pretty emotional against it but I won't insult other people with a different point of view. I want an intelligent argument for abortion being legal. I feel like it's barbaric(sp) of our country to allow so many abortions each year and it's just kinda common-place now and women that have the procedure done aren't even looked down upon anymore nor are they even questioned about their reasons for doing it.

[bigNasty]

My stepmother, who I got pregnant had to go see some quack in Peru, because it was illegal down there, and they were able to force a miscarriage, and she did all right...but it kind of sucks, too: like most things, there is no easy answer, and most of us try to weigh which is better options: forcing women back to what my 1st girlfriend had to go thru in Mexico, ...
I'm not judging you...............but did i get this right or read something wrong?

Your stepmother was your first girlfriend and you got her preggers?

[Duckfeet]

No, when I get excited I tend to jumble all things up: my first girlfriend, after I got out of the army, and went to Gainesville FL, in 1972, told me about how her previous boyfriend insisted she get an abortion, didn't want to get married, etc. and they got money, and he sent her alone down to Mexico City, where there was "this doc" and it was a real brutal horror story...early seventies was when womans liberation movement--which I had my battles with--fought to make abortion legal, due to incidences like this...

Second, around 1974, I sold my harley, and went down to Peru, where my dad was living, and he introduced me to my new "stepmom" who was a Nicaraguan girl, around 18, who obviously wasn't all that excited by Pop--I was around 24 or so, Pop was 50, best I can remember...

Me and my dad didn't really have much love lost between us, and I actually was down there cuz of some famous surfing spots, and honestly, to try to get a cocaine thing going, as Peru wasn't "quite" as hot as Colombia...in those days...we were just waiting on the ether, to finish off making it...but anyway....

When my pop was at work, my new 'mom' kind of hit on me, or just seemed to wander into my bedroom a lot in the morning...and I don't know about you guys, but at 24 Ida fucked a watermelon if it was friendly....but I actually did try *not* to mess with her...which works about as good as *not* messing with dope, when it's available...so we got it on, and she'd sneak into my room daily, and on and on...then missed her period, etc, and went to see doc, he says she's pregnant, blah blah blah: she knew there was nothing serious between us, and that pop was her ticket out of the hell she'd been in Nicaragua, and I had no morals at all back then, but she was also catholic, and seemed to care about me, and I'm sure if I'd been inclined, she woulda took off with me....so she got some kind of induced miscarriage, etc, etc.,,,...

My dad was miserable father, and mean drunk, but still...I was no saint neither, obviously...and coke scheme fell thru, but waves were great...

And of course, she later told him, when they were fighting, and so it was just added to the long list of grievances and disappointments Pop and I both had with each other...and nobody ever got pregnant on me again, tho I kept wife on pill, and the women I hung out with, hookers and dancers and shit, knew how to take care of themselves..., and yes, now I'm all grown up, and getting old, I feel bad about it, wish things had been different...

When my pop killed himself a few years back, he called her on the phone, and she heard the blast...and his final farewell to me, was to tape a big piece of tape on the shotgun, w/my name on it...

Great family.


I'm not judging you...............but did i get this right or read something wrong?

Your stepmother was your first girlfriend and you got her preggers?

[Princess]

Great story, Duck. I mean, I know those memories probably aren't your fondest, but it's a great story nonetheless. I really wish you would write a book about your life. You REALLY should. I know every single member here would buy a copy. I love reading your posts and would absolutely love to read an entire book of your adventures.

Better yet, YOU should run for President!!

[Duckfeet]

why thankyou! Nice thing to say...but I kind of learned a long time ago, that real writers have an incredible work ethic, and I--to be honest--don't, and would rather go to the beach...Sure, when I was young, I had dreams, like any young person...but, like so many before me, I confused those dreams with accomplishments that had escaped me, and one day things weren't that way anymore...

Yep, I come from typical alcoholic family, where the sexual sickness, and craziness, and meanness are just oh so common...but I'm pretty happy, all in all: I seem to have escaped any real withdrawal symptoms, and I can hear the waves crashing on the rocks below, and right past dawn I'll be doing my qigong down on the beach, and then yoga at 10, and I'm alright...

So compared to where I could be, I'm a lucky boy, I know that: I just came out of a couple years of pretty much strungout hell, for me, and feel very lucky, if not blessed...

Hey, I even had a girl whistle at me today! How bad could it be? :)

Hope things get better for you: I know you had a terrible day at the docs, and you deserve much better....




Great story, Duck. I mean, I know those memories probably aren't your fondest, but it's a great story nonetheless. I really wish you would write a book about your life. You REALLY should. I know every single member here would buy a copy. I love reading your posts and would absolutely love to read an entire book of your adventures.
Better yet, YOU should run for President!!

[Princess]

Duck, I'm proud of you and happy for you, at the same time. You are an amazing guy. I hope things continue to go well. I'm sure everything will work out for me. If not with my favorite doctor, I'll find a new PCP that does take Medicare and start over. I do have all the medical records to back up my need for REAL pain control.

If I was at the beach today, I'd have whistled at you ;)

[Paregoric Kid]

I voted for Bob Barr and Wayne A. Root the libertarians for president/vice president. I voted for all of the libertarians running for office in my state. I voted for one democratic congressman who voted against the bailout and one republican who has been a state representative forever. I also wrote in myself against this one republican that was running unopposed. would like to have voted for Ron Paul but he was only on the ballot in Montana and Louisiana, and write-in votes are almost worthless because they go virtually unreported for a while after the election.
I don't see how any drug user could vote for a candidate that supports the war on drugs. I think a lot of people are going to be disappointed by Obama. lot of hope and promises but will he help this country and our individual freedoms? I don't think so.
congratulations to Michigan for voting in favor of medical marijuana and to Massachusetts and another area for decriminalizing the possession of marijuana up to an ounce. in MA it will only cost you a $100 fine through the mail, no court, just like a speeding ticket. another area made marijuana its lowest priority. Washington legalized assisted suicide. the biggest disappointment in this election was the gay marriage bans. we got a few steps forward and a leap back for our personal freedoms.

[Duckfeet]

I realize that you are right, and it is certainly the principled way to vote...no argument from me, as the only real hope for lifetime addicts like me, and for the survival of America, is a return to the libertarian principles we were founded upon...

But I'm a lot older than most of you, and really do remember in my lifetime the abysmal treatment of black people in this country, and what they went thru just to be treated as humans is beyond belief...or defense...and I felt that I could not live with myself, if I did not, just once, vote from a different part of my conscience...

But I'm sure the downhill slide of this once great nation will probably continue, and Obama will turn out to be a pol like all the others...and I still cringe when people talk bad about McCaine's character, as he was brave when most of us were not, and will never be...

I love Ron Paul, and even tho I felt it was an impossible dream, I was glad I was part of it, but once he wasn't in the running, I passed on my usual libertarian vote, and voted Obama, for the reasons above....


I voted for Bob Barr and Wayne A. Root the libertarians for president/vice president. I voted for all of the libertarians running for office in my state. I voted for one democratic congressman who voted against the bailout and one republican who has been a state representative forever. I also wrote in myself against this one republican that was running unopposed. would like to have voted for Ron Paul but he was only on the ballot in Montana and Louisiana, and write-in votes are almost worthless because they go virtually unreported for a while after the election.
I don't see how any drug user could vote for a candidate that supports the war on drugs. I think a lot of people are going to be disappointed by Obama. lot of hope and promises but will he help this country and our individual freedoms? I don't think so.
congratulations to Michigan for voting in favor of medical marijuana and to Massachusetts and another area for decriminalizing the possession of marijuana up to an ounce. in MA it will only cost you a $100 fine through the mail, no court, just like a speeding ticket. another area made marijuana its lowest priority. Washington legalized assisted suicide. the biggest disappointment in this election was the gay marriage bans. we got a few steps forward and a leap back for our personal freedoms.