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resorcinol
11-02-2008, 01:59 PM
Which do you prefer?

Some Examples of Each Type

Primarily Anxiolytic: diazepam, clonazepam, alprazolam, bromazepam, chlordiazepoxide, oxazepam, nordazepam, lorazepam

Primarily Hypnotic: nitrazepam, temazepam, flunitrazepam, lormetazepam, flutoprazepam, nimetazepam, triazolam, estazolam, brotizolam, midazolam

Primarily Hypnotic (atypical): zolpidem (Ambien), zopiclone, (S)-zopiclone (Lunesta), zaleplon (Sonata)

The third group are GABA-A-bzd receptor agonists, but they can't be called "benzodiazepines" because they don't have a benzodiazepine ring system in their structure. This is one thing that makes benzos unusual, is that they're a class of medicinal drugs that are classified by their chemical structure rather than their receptor affinities; this is totally different than what defines an opioid; an opioid is ANY chemical that is a mu agonist regardless of structure. In any case, "nonbenzodiazepines" is an extremely misleading name for Ambien and family... they SO ARE benzos if you look at receptor affinity.

Those are only a few examples of each. There are SO many benzodiazepines out there that it would be impossible for me to categorize every one, or even every one that is marketed somewhere in the world -- even that is still a TON of benzos.

Keep in mind also that benzos are relatively nonselective for subtypes of GABA-A-bzd receptors. It's just that hypnotic benzos lean towards higher potency at subtype a1, while anxiolytics lean towards potency at subtypes a2 and a3. Subtype a5 is responsible for blacking out and possibly some of the anticonvulsant activity; alcohol targets all of these receptors too, including a5 :D -- hence booze's blackout potential. Alcohol binds at a different allosteric site than benzos though -- possibly the site that barbs bind to, possibly another site altogether, although we do know that booze behaves more like barbs at GABA-A receptor complexes.

The Z-drugs are more selective for the hypnotic subtype a1 than the typical older hypnotic benzos like flunitrazepam are, but they still aren't completely selective, so the z drugs still hit a2, a3, and a5 a little bit. The z-drugs, however, in general have a much lower affinity than the typical hypnotic benzos do, so that's why they may seem weak despite leaning heavily towards they hypnotic side.

I tend to believe that a benzo that's 100% selective of a1 OR a2/a3 wouldn't be fun at all. I think there has to be some binding to all of 'em for it to be fun.

As far a z-drugs (atypical benzo agonists) go, I think analogs of z-drugs could be made that are more euphoric and fun that typical benzodiazepines, that just hasn't happened yet.

But back to the question, in general do you prefer benzos that are considered hypnotic or ones that are considered anxiolytic.

My vote is: I don't know. I've only had anxiolytic benzos. Out of those I've tried, bromazepam was the most kick ass.

I've heard hypnotics are a more fucked up, super drunk type high, while anxiolytics are a more mellow, muscles relaxed, floaty headspace type buzz.

So, go ahead and vote up! Decision 2008!

Narkotikon
11-02-2008, 02:04 PM
Anxiolytics. Xanax, Ativan, Klonopin, Valium in that order. Never tried Bromazepam, but it sounds nice.

rockbottom
11-02-2008, 02:27 PM
i love the hyponitics --rohypnol and halcion--but also i really like clonazapam so i picked both

Hiram
11-02-2008, 08:23 PM
Heh, here's an old entertaining trip report for clonazepane. http://forum.opiophile.org/showthread.php?t=1681

I'll stick with the good ol K-pins as needed, which is rare nowadays. Ativan is my favorite for all around smoothness.

Seedy
11-02-2008, 11:49 PM
All of them.... at once!!

I think the best benzo buzz I've ever achieved (keep in mind I always us them with my usual opie & weed intake, usually with booze) was on temazepam. But that doesn't count all the occasions I can't remember of course. I've tried halcium a few times but I guess never enough to enjoy it.

Of the Anxiolytics I prefer diazepam. Xanax is too... well it kicks on pretty hard but doesn't have the muscle relaxant qualities of diaz. I find clonazepam too subtle somehow, by the time I take enough to get a good buzz going on I get into blackout territory.

Over all it's pretty hard to choose a favourite because there really isn't that much variation, IMO. Nowhere near like the difference betweek different opiates, and the differences are prretty subtle.

ndoftaworld
11-03-2008, 03:45 AM
Chose (and scripted) both. Kpins for the long-ride and 1 or 2mg halcion for a quick-drop... tho, the hypnotics DO make insomnia worse... and after awhile even upping the dose doesn't help me get a good nights rest, or I end up passing out and STAYING out for 2 days... kinda sux sometimes, but eh, take enough of em and you'll go into blackout territory - that's where the FUN begins: car wrecks, fights, broken furniture... and not a memory about any of it!

Gotta love dem benzo's!!

Nd

underide
11-03-2008, 07:40 AM
I chose anxiolitics - i.e xanax(alprazolam), valium(diazepam - which to my knowledge is not just your 'standard' anxiolitic, but also a muscle relaxer and to some degree even a hypnotic and correct me if i'm wrong here but that's the impression i'm left with after comparing a few different benzo's, both anxiolitics and hypnotics)

the only two main hypnotics that we see on the streets now are Dalmane and Temazepam -much rarer than Dalmane though
(i'm leaving out Rohypnol (flunitrazepam) which is pretty damn rare over here now, but about 3-4 years ago it was common enough that you were quite likely to run into someone, at least about once a week, selling it right outside our clinic. And having tried it once before and once again quite recently, all i can say is that it is indeed a powerful hypnotic, but it's image is WAY overblown IMO.
Here, it is not Rohypnol's 'date-rape' image that caused it to be much less-prescribed nowadays, but the fact that there's been clinical studies that indicate that Rohypnol is much more able at impairing your long-term cognitive abilities than any other benzo on the market today and that is the main reason why we hardly see it anymore here, from what i know (a local med/pharmacy sourse explanation on that is provided in the 'irish pharmacist' - med-related magazine/issue mainly aimed at students and practicing pharmacists and distributed mainly throughout our Universities/Colleges. I'll try to dig up a copy of it, it was on one of those adobe pdf files)

Flurazepam (Dalmane) i was never a big fan of, but then again it is a rather potent hypnotic with the longest halflife of all the benzo's out there - up to 250 hours, which makes it pretty appealing to a lot of the benzo-heads here.

So like i say, i think i much preffer the anxiolitc category
I like Valium quite a lot, actually. I have Tried Rivotril (clonazepam) a few times here, and i do prefer Valium over it, unlike most people it seems.

I have also finally got a connect for Xanax (to my surprize it is actually rather unpopular over here for the majoprity of the benzo-heads, probably due to the simple fact that they (xannies) hardly hold you throughout the day and you need quite a few of them just to feel normal, as opposed to valium or dalmane, which keep you well for a day or even two even if you only dosed once and on a much smaller dose than usual) - i found that Xanax connect right after my unsuccessful cold-turkey attempt at jumping off daily Valium and quite a large dose at that. Not a bright move - the withdrawal just seemed to get worse and worse with each day for almost two weeks that i managed to stay off the V's, and by the end of the day 11 i simply saw no end in sight and incapable of working or doing much else but suffer, so i relapsed, this time on Xanax
I got a contact who has a seemingly never-ending supply (his spouse gets them, and they sell them to buy Dalmane and/or gear, apparently) of those 'upjohns' as we call them here (it has 'upjohn29' written on one side of it) - they're only 0.25mg strength, so i needed to eat about at least 25 of them to get me through the day. I stuck on them for 2 weeks straight before commencing my quite rapid detox regimen, coming back on valium to do so.

I'm down to 10mgs of valium now (from 100) and feeling rather shitty, especially in the evenings/night and MORNINGS -are the worst though, when the 'done wears off completely
And like J-5 pointed out somewhere, i discovered that if i score 2-3 bags of gear (which i'm only able to do about twice a week, due to being piss-tested once every week), it seems to help tremendously with the benzo Wd symptoms, for me too , at least for about half a day and that's usually quite helpful as i still want to keep my job, and now i'm mostly scoring extra methadone on the streets - i find that 'done's not quite as effective as H, for some reason at reducing the symptoms of benzo WD's, but it still helps quite a bit, and lasts longer than H + works out cheaper. I basically usually score 150mgs of done a week and split it up into 6 parts, adding extra 25-30mgs on top of mine 75 daily that i get at the clinic.

So as i'm closing ever-closer in on abstinence from benzo's, i already have 8 x10mg Zolpidem and 5 x5mgs Zopiclone, to use for the final week (or maybe even two, if i can score a little more) after i hit on ZERO benzo point
That would be this Friday, so hopefully that works out in the end. i 'm sure it should go a hell of a lot smoother than going CT off that large a dose of bezo's the previous time, but like i say, i was only on benzo's (including 2 weeks of Xanax) just shy of about 3 months, which made me think i could still pull it off going Cold turkey.
Obviously, i was wrong. What a hellish 11 days it was (actually the first 3-4 days weren't that bad, but by day 5 i really stated to feel it, and it was only getting worse with each day, rather than better)

Anyway, sorry once again for the drawn-out personal rant

Anxiolitics is what i like most - Diazepam and Alprazolam (especially mixed and on top of my daily 'done, but you have know and be comfortable with your tolerance, obviously, or else it might be the last combo you have tried)
Both (V's and Xanax) are great in their own way to me, but both are pretty different from eachother, especially where the haf-life is concerned
But they complement eachother very well, taken together and on top of 'done

Another point is that that i have been repeatedly advised against (by quite a good/knowledgeable aquaintainse of mine who was/is scripted both anxiolytics and hypnotics) - and he basically said that if you abuse hypnotics for more than a month or two daily use in some cases, you can rest assured that trying to come off cold turkey, even of a low therapeutic dose (and not only benzo hypnotics, but other GABAminergic substances like Zolpidem and Zopiclone, both of which are not to take lightly as they can be as bad if not worse in some cases than benzo hypnotics to get off of, at least according to that buddy of mine and he does have years of experience when it comes to both - benzo's and ambien,lunesta type sleepers), that you can expect to have EXTREME rebound insomnia, where you literally don't sleep for days/weeks on end and walk around in zombified/trippy state because of that. and there is no way i'd be able to keep my job without sleep.
I'm having trouble enough as it is to try and control the rebound anxiety after my time of valium/xanax abuse. And it does suck BIGTIME

Other than that, i just preffer the buzz that anxiolitics provide as opposed to hypnotics
I guess that's^^^^ all i needed to say. :rolleyes:

so, sorry for the long post, once again.
I just scored a few bags of good gear, right after giving my UA at the clinic, and the relief of it is making me rather talkative. i know it's bound to pass in about 6-8 hours, but for now i'm just enjoying myself (kinda)

So yeah - anxiolitics all the way and for the win :p :)
i just hope i can finally get over them soon enough. Learned my lesson all to well, and learned it the hard way.
What i've learned from it all, is that occasional use of benzo's can be quite fun indeed, but once it becomes a daily habit lasting more than 2 months, then it can be one hell of a bitch to get off of.
So to anyone still 'chipping' on benzo's - be careful, is all i can say. And try to keep your doseage low. I was able to use/abuse benzo's occasionally for years without getting hooked, and never though i would, but ended up doing just that in the end.
That combo of methadone+valium/xanax (or even both) is quite a seductive one indeed

alowishus
11-03-2008, 10:16 AM
Holy fuck - you can type.

I'd never had a benzo buzz, and wouldn't know one looks like from a truck stop asprin.

resorcinol
11-03-2008, 12:32 PM
Benzos feel, to me, like opiates without a soul. They get you buzzed and goofed up, but without that profound sense of warmth throughout the body and mind and the strong pro sociability.

Sure, a huge dose of benzos will have you slurring out everything you think, but it's not the same as what opiates do even in low doses. With opiates you have a more genuine desire to be social.

Indy
11-03-2008, 06:41 PM
tbh i don't really agree with separating them that much, they're still basically the same action on the brain, just feels a bit different for each one. i mean clonazepam might be considered an "anxiolytic" but i'm prescribed it for sleep, and i'm sure there's plenty of cases of hypnotics being prescribed for anxiety. it really doesn't make a difference either way, but classifying them like that makes it seem like you're trying to pass them off as two different drugs a little bit IMO

RobOC
11-03-2008, 06:52 PM
I like em both. The hypnotics are fun, but a little more on the downer side. I find that restoril, halcion, etc. hit you good and hard but can really put you out. Other more "benzo benzos" like xanax and kolonopin are fun and tend not to make me as drowsy, a little more fun to party on while the hypnotics are fun for a night of just chillin at home.

jonny-5
11-03-2008, 08:14 PM
i put both, i love xanax, but my favorite benzo of all is triazolam.

Brony
11-03-2008, 08:28 PM
I prefer the anxiolytics, hands down. I prefer Ativan, followed by Klonopin, Valium, and Xanax. It's been a long while since I've had benzos, but I always enjoyed them.

resorcinol
11-03-2008, 11:53 PM
tbh i don't really agree with separating them that much, they're still basically the same action on the brain, just feels a bit different for each one. i mean clonazepam might be considered an "anxiolytic" but i'm prescribed it for sleep, and i'm sure there's plenty of cases of hypnotics being prescribed for anxiety. it really doesn't make a difference either way, but classifying them like that makes it seem like you're trying to pass them off as two different drugs a little bit IMO

fwiw I did mention in my post that the division into hypnotics and anxiolytics was relative, and that, for example, a hypnotic only favors a1 subtypes with a higher affinity, but still binds to the anxiolytic subtypes.

pain-patient
11-04-2008, 01:01 PM
resorcinol (http://forum.opiophile.org/member.php?u=2290) --

That was a most interesting explanation of the benzos and "non-benzos". I would like to learn more about GABA receptor sub-types and wondered where you found the info in your post as I think it would be good reading for me. Would mind sharing your source or listing some good sources for this kind of info?

Thanks,

M

ndoftaworld
11-04-2008, 09:04 PM
Ya, besides like 3 hours reading up the different benzo's on wikipedia, I haven't really come across useful info like u posted.

Any ideas to check out?

Nd

resorcinol
11-04-2008, 09:56 PM
Check these sites out for some z-drug info:

some basic zolpidem info: http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/research/job185drugs/zolpidem.htm

zolpidem pharmaco(kinetics/dynamics): http://www.websciences.org/cftemplate/NAPS/archives/indiv.cfm?ID=19961509

compare and contrasting three z-drugs: http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/adis/cpk/2004/00000043/00000004/art00002;jsessionid=3tehq2w375107.alice?format=pri nt

wiki on zolpidem: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/zolpidem

A google search for stuff like "z drug pharmacology" or "benzodiazepines and zolpidem zopiclone zaleplon" or "nonbenzodiazepine hypnotics GABA" will bring up tons and TONS of journal articles and other types of information.

I get my info through weeding through this stuff for ages and I tend to forget where I learned something after awhile. Also after awhile, your knowledge assimilates into a "system" and you have an intuitive understanding that doesn't require any further memorization of facts.

###########################

In a nutshell though, think of it this way.

If the "opioid" label was used the same way the "benzodiazepine" label is, and "opioid" meant the morphinan skeleton then --

*morphine, heroin, hydrocodone, oxymorphone, oxycodone, etc would be opioids, they've got morphinan backbone in their structure

*fentanyl, pethidine, dextromoramide, methadone, etc would NOT be opioids since they don't have the morphinan backbone in their chemical structures ... they'd be called non-opioid narcotic painkillers or something silly like that

But with opioids, we define "opioid" by what receptor the chemical binds (in this case, opioid mu receptors). With opioids, any mu receptor agonist, regardless of which chemical class it's in, is called and classed as an opioid.

Benzos are different. "Benzodiazepine" is a ring structure, a benzene ring fused to a diazepine ring. Compounds that act as agonists at GABA-A-BZD receptors and have this ring structure are called benzos... HOWEVER, there are other chemical classes of drugs, drugs lacking a "benzodiazepine" ring, that are agonists at GABA-A-BZD receptors. These are currently, and IMO misleadingly, called "nonbenzodiazepine" sedatives. the famous ones in current existence are the "z-drugs", zolpidem, zopiclone, zaleplon.

"Z-drugs" aren't called benzos just because they have no benzodiazepine ring in their chemical structure. Pharmacologically, they really are benzos, though. "Z-drugs" have the identical mechanism of action as, say, temazepam.

It would be possible for sure to synth a new GABA-A-BZD agonist that doesn't have a benzodiazepine ring that is more suited for anxiety treatment than the z-drugs, due to longer half lives and preference for a2 and a3 subtypes. This hypothetical drug would be just like klonopin as far as your receptors are concerned. It would also certainly be possible to synth a GABA-A-BZD agonist with no benzodiazepine ring that mimics the extreme euphoria of some classical benzos like temazepam, triazolam, and flunitrazepam. The GABA-A-BZD receptor is a target of several chemical classes, basically. What it boils down to is that the label "benzodiazepine" describes a chemical structure property, while the label "opioid" describes a pharmacological property.

Also, just to throw this out there at the tail end here; look at the structures of the z-drugs, like zolpidem (Ambien). While you can clearly, plainly see that it doesn't have the benzodiazepine ring system, you can also see that it resembles the general layout of classical benzo molecules -- two rings fused into one, a third ring sticking off the fused ring system, and a side-chain or functional group on the fused ring system. If you compare, say, zolpidem and flutoprazepam (or any benzo really), you'll see the layout similarities. This allows them to bind the GABA-A-BZD receptor.

underide
11-11-2008, 05:15 AM
heh, just posted on a similar topic

But yeah, Ambien and Zopiclone (trade name Zimovane over here) can be substituted for benzo's in benzo WD, it seems
Maybe not so much ambien, but Zopiclone definitly can, since it seems to have a longer halflife so is probably more suited for that

Zimovane is very common over here, and a lot of benzoheads here go back and forth from benzo's to zopiclone as well as Stilnoct/Ambien depending on availibility (on the streets)

pain-patient
11-20-2008, 10:50 AM
Thanks for the references, resorcinol (http://forum.opiophile.org/member.php?u=2290)!:)

Best,

M

rockbottom
11-20-2008, 04:16 PM
just received an order today--halcion and klonipin:) i am gonna have a happy weekend---im ordering bromazapam tomorrow so i will have an opinion on that benzo ---soon--Peace all --Rock

ndoftaworld
11-20-2008, 07:41 PM
just received an order today--halcion and klonipin:) i am gonna have a happy weekend---im ordering bromazapam tomorrow so i will have an opinion on that benzo ---soon--Peace all --Rock

ROCK!! U be careful damn it!! Halcion already got ya once... and I AIN'T gonna let another ophile go, especially when u know first hand what happens, and do it anyway.

I know u love ur benzo's (ME TOO! ;) ) but just don't try for the 'black-out phase' all @ once, k? Then ya can come back and post how awesome (you think... but can't remember, hmm?) it was :D

I'm scripted both those, and my tolerance ain't newhere NEAR your's, but everyone's got their limits.

Stay cool,

Nd

stephenISall
02-14-2009, 12:34 PM
i love benzo's right now. i mean, i seek them more than heroin and ive been a heroin addict for over 10 years but i havent used in about a year. anyway,, im scripted kpins right now and before that i was on kpins and temazepams. the temaz's didnt get me high AT ALL. and i would take upwards of 180mgs. guess its just me. even taking 30mg a night didnt really help me sleep and like i said, NO euphoria. and ive tried them with other drugs and just by themselves with the same result. weird because i know alot of people say they get a great high from temazepam but i dont get shit from it. weird....

thats why this lastest dr that i saw, i didnt even ask for temazepam's for sleep. i asked for ritalin, kpins, and some kinda muscle relaxer so i asked for zanaflex cause ive heard good things and ive had BAD experiences with soma but the soma was bought in mexico so that could be it.

anyway, my 2 cents are. i prefer valium and kpins even though i LOVE xanax but they are just too dangerous for me. i go through em WAY too fast and the blackouts are serious and very very dangerous. i just dont trust myself on xanax anymore. plus, im on 140mg of methadone so the synergism makes it even more dangerous.

just thought id chime in. i prefer kpins which is why im on them right now but no matter what, a script, ANY script has NEVER lasted me more than 10 days. weird....... im just that type of an addict. :mad:

oxyjon
03-21-2009, 08:39 PM
To me benzos get in the way of my functional life. That is why I voted I didn't like them. I used to get xanax years back and they seemed to make me more depressed than its worth. Even when I would take them just to sleep, I would have blackouts and the next morning it would be hard to wake up. And they made me feel like shit at work. Ive had valium and end up feeling the same if I took enough. And lately, benzos have caused me more problems with the way they flip my old lady out when she has to have 3-4 bars because she cant sleep. But she has realized the stress they cause and how they can fuck life up if you are not careful. And she has cut back. I dont hate on anyone who likes their benzos. They are just not for me.

libertine
03-24-2009, 12:38 PM
Anxiolytics all the way

DCBA
03-24-2009, 01:04 PM
With little tolerance i prefer the anxiolytic ones, but with hard tolerance or for opiate WD i prefer the "more" hypnotic ones. But the term is more related to its sedation potency than anything else.. But i tend to be careful with the 1,4-benzos like triazolam, when i use them in very high doses they totally make me weird and give me memory blanks, and that happend sometimes at even not so high doses, even with tolerance, so i tend to prefer hypnotics like midazolam, temazepam, etc.. they work best for me at very high doses! But nowadays its hypnotics, they give more "rush" power, yeah baby!!!

EleusisII
03-24-2009, 02:15 PM
Which do you prefer?
Those are only a few examples of each. There are SO many benzodiazepines out there that it would be impossible for me to categorize every one, or even every one that is marketed somewhere in the world -- even that is still a TON of benzos.

Very true... Just here in Denmark we have something called Lormetazepam, that I haven't seen or heard about in other countries. Nitrazepam is popular in Europe, but unknown in the US. In Asian countries they have Nimetazepam (Pretty sure that's the name) that for some reason in only made in Japan, but popular enough to be smuggled or copied all over Asia.

However that might be changing. In UK and Norway they tightened up regulations, so that there are only three or four kinds of benzos available in the market at all (Flunitrazepam, Clonazepam, Diazepam and Temazepam AFAI remember). The reasoning behind being that this reduces consumption, since benzodiazepines is a pretty shitty drug, that create more problems that they aleviate.

Unfortunately, I can see that line of thinking becoming more and more popular among doctors and regulators, so who knows... Even though Americans currently eat xanax like candy, there's a very real risk that benzo's could go the way of barbiturates in 5-10 years: Becoming practically unavalable, except to elderly patients who have been on them for 40 years. The Z-drugs would replace them to an extent, though docs are becoming more and more aware of the potential addictiveness of those as well.

RES: What do you think... Do you see this as a realistic scenario?


The Z-drugs are more selective for the hypnotic subtype a1 than the typical older hypnotic benzos like flunitrazepam are, but they still aren't completely selective, so the z drugs still hit a2, a3, and a5 a little bit. The z-drugs, however, in general have a much lower affinity than the typical hypnotic benzos do, so that's why they may seem weak despite leaning heavily towards they hypnotic side.

I wouldn't call them "weak". Personally I feel the effects of zopliclone way harder than some benzos ;)


As far a z-drugs (atypical benzo agonists) go, I think analogs of z-drugs could be made that are more euphoric and fun that typical benzodiazepines, that just hasn't happened yet.

With the patents either expired or expiring in most countries, I'm sure they have some fun new Z-drugs in the labs and pipeline. Since you're a pretty smart fella, what do you think accounts for the hallucinogenic effects of Ambien? Supposedly it's really hallucinogenic as you increase the dose, and I never understood the mechanism, or why it doesn't go for other Z-drugs and benzos.
And how come Flunitrazepam is so fucking sweet, compared to boring ass-uneuphoric Nitrazepam?


My vote is: I don't know. I've only had anxiolytic benzos. Out of those I've tried, bromazepam was the most kick ass.


REALLY? I'd say that's an interesting way of describing it. ;) Personally I find Bromazepam boring but effective. It's very popular in Europe, primarily at the expense of Xanax and Ativan.


I've heard hypnotics are a more fucked up, super drunk type high, while anxiolytics are a more mellow, muscles relaxed, floaty headspace type buzz.

I take it your experience with benzps is more academical than practical? Cause that's a pretty good description of a Valium buzz right there ;)
In my experience hypnotics are more boring, the only exception being flunitrazepam, since they do what they're supposed to with me. They just make me really tired :(

DCBA
03-24-2009, 03:02 PM
Lormetazepam is around here too. For me its too sedating but its powerfull. The benzo that im using most and liking most is an hypnotic called brotizolam. Love it. And hypnotics also deal with anxiety..

More Feen
03-24-2009, 03:45 PM
Its not on your list, but I once had access to Midazolam (Versed in the States, I think).

I did not know which type of benzo it was until trying it. Definately a sleep-inducer! I have little trouble sleeping, so I would have prefered an anxiety-busting benzo instead.

Beggars shouldn't be choosey,

M F

EleusisII
03-24-2009, 04:10 PM
Lormetazepam is around here too. For me its too sedating but its powerfull. The benzo that im using most and liking most is an hypnotic called brotizolam. Love it. And hypnotics also deal with anxiety..

Yeah, Pronoctan (As lormetazepam is called here) does knock you on your ass! I'm not a huge fan og benzos, but I find the subtle differences interesting.
Never heard of brotizolam, where in the world are you located?

Hypnotics also works on anxiety, one that's really good is Mogadon (Nitrazepam). It's a hypnotic, but has a long halflife, so works great on anxiety once you wake up. Forgot about the brandname, when I mentioned it in the previous post, sorry about that. Is Mogadon a popular sleeping pill is the US?

BTW: Mogadon is the cutest little pill. Try to look it up on pharmer.org. Roche logo on one side, and on the other side is what looks like two closed eyes ;)

resorcinol
03-25-2009, 05:23 PM
Re: EleusisII

I could potentially see an attempt to phase out benzos in favor of z-drugs selective for either anxiolysis or hypnosis by the medical community, but I have doubts about it actually happening.

Additionaly, if these drugs were treated more like opioids are, z drugs ARE benzos, they just don't have the "benzodiazepine" aromatic ring system. They certainly bind to the bzd site on GABA(A) as agonists. It follows that the most euphoric "benzo" could be a so called "z drug" that has yet to be synthesized and not a classical benzo.

I think the hallucinogenic activity of zolpidem is a property inherent to some degree to all GABAergic drugs, but an effect that holds more prominence in some agonists than others, perhaps due to subtype-selectivity profile. Amanita mushrooms are said to be hallucinogenic / entheogenic because of their muscimol content, and muscimol is a potent GABA(A) agonist. I also believe this may tie in with the effect zolpidem has on many patients with minimally conscious states: it snaps them right out of it and even shows long term neurogenesis in areas of the brain previously thought to be essentially dead.

My exp with benzos is academic and acutal :) I really do prefer bromazepam over all other benzos (that I've tried): I find it to have more of that warmth and euphoria that I look for.

EleusisII
03-25-2009, 06:58 PM
Hmm.. The only benzo I've ever seen to be close to euphoric on me, is flunitrazepam. I guess I'm just not a benzo person ;)

But yeah, now that you reminded me, I do remember reading reports about Zolpidem being a "miracle drug" that could awake the comatose. Think I even wrote a little blurb about it myself... That really is a fascinating effect.

As for me, ever since I woke up with half my Ambien bottle gone, keys for a rental car on the table, and no recollection whatever of what happened the night before, I put Zolpidem in the "Fucking evil drug" category ;)

30_Units
04-02-2009, 06:52 AM
I've loved and abused all classes, but the mackdaddy was ampouls of midazolam.

So my vote goes to hypnotics.

What a rush.

xannyman
04-25-2009, 01:26 PM
I love the Anxiolytic's alot better.....Xanax, Ativan, and was lucky enough to get injectible midozalam (don't ask how).
Ambien can be quit the rush when shot, or I enjoy to take 2-3 orally and do everything I can to stay awake and enjoy the trip!

xannyman
04-25-2009, 01:28 PM
I've loved and abused all classes, but the mackdaddy was ampouls of midazolam.

So my vote goes to hypnotics.

What a rush. Damn, I am so high I didn't even see your post on ampouls of midazolam!!! Fuck yeah!!! It sure as shit was the mackdaddy for my also! First got it in the hospital before surgery and asked the Dr. what it was because I was higher than a kite! Then found a source who had ampouls and told him I would buy them all and did.

DCBA
04-27-2009, 08:50 AM
Yeah, Pronoctan (As lormetazepam is called here) does knock you on your ass! I'm not a huge fan og benzos, but I find the subtle differences interesting.
Never heard of brotizolam, where in the world are you located?

Hypnotics also works on anxiety, one that's really good is Mogadon (Nitrazepam). It's a hypnotic, but has a long halflife, so works great on anxiety once you wake up. Forgot about the brandname, when I mentioned it in the previous post, sorry about that. Is Mogadon a popular sleeping pill is the US?

BTW: Mogadon is the cutest little pill. Try to look it up on pharmer.org. Roche logo on one side, and on the other side is what looks like two closed eyes ;)

At first, when i started using benzos many years ago, Nitrazepam was along with Temazepam the most enjoyable benzos that i had around.
But then Nitrazepam was withdrawn from this market, it no longer exists here, too bad, i used to love that stuff!
Is this the pill you are talking about? The cutest little pill.. I think they were called Smiles around UK in the 90s..

http://www.pharmer.org/files/images/e790be9668c81472e4fbbd415c1cbe7e-124.jpg

I am from Portugal, brotizolam is a strong benzo (marketed in 250mgs as an hypnotic) 'that is market for as an hypnotic but like you said hypnotics also work on anxiety and many are used as both, i known a few doctors that "told me" that the main difference between anti-anxiety and hypnotics benzos are the doses, all anti-anxiety are hypnotics and all hypnotics are anti-anxiety, its a matter of dosage. I tend to agree on that. If you take half the dose of an hypnotic you almost certainly will get anti-anxiety effects, and if you take a double-dose of an anti-anxiety med then you will get hypnotic (sleep inducing) effects..

BTW, i dont like much of flunitrazepam except its price.. They are less than 50cents per 10pills.. lol, but i find it to relaxing but not in a good way, temazepam is better for example.

30_Units
04-27-2009, 09:17 AM
for a few seconds, I'm really jealous of your flunitrazepam prices, but then I think of all the stupid I would do with them at that price.

still jealous though.

lilred0005
04-27-2009, 03:04 PM
I'm not a huge benzo fan. It seems I ALWAYS do stupid, in other words dangerous, things when on them. I used to take a lot of Ambien several yrs ago. I loved the trippy effects, it reminded me of ketamine. I'd have conversation w/ imaginary ppl & watch the walls & curtains breathe, wierd shit. Then I ruined it, I became a heroin addict w/ a need to shoot just about anything(@ my lowest I shot Wellbutrin-sad). If I was out of dope & fiending, I'd shoot my ambien. Ambien has a strange "taste" when shot & now I HATE it & can't even take it orally. I no longer mess w/ the needle but everytime I look @ an ambien it brings back those bad times, like a flashback from hell, lol. After all this I'd say I like Valium the best. It's the only benzo that doesn't get me in trouble, works very well, & can work for sleep or anxiety. My favorites before I fucked up were the hypnotics though. Lastly, Idk how ppl mix benzos & opiates. Everytime I've done it, I've blacked out, last time side-swiping the toll-plaza on the turnpike. So not cool.

DCBA
04-27-2009, 04:57 PM
for a few seconds, I'm really jealous of your flunitrazepam prices, but then I think of all the stupid I would do with them at that price.

still jealous though.

its pharmacy prices not street prices, but nowadays its hard to find on the street, but swim used to write prescriptions and that was what it costs, 20 pills for 0.78€.. But nowadays its hard to get without prescription, and swim dont write prescriptions anymore.. But swim wrote hundreds if not thousands of prescriptions for benzos and amphetamines and low-grade opiates, but unfortanely swim couldn't write prescriptions for strong opiates cause he would need papers that he didnt get..

Dont be jealous, its not that good, i like other benzos best, but many ppl around here in the good'old'days used to love this stuff, ppl never had trouble selling this one on the streets ;)

Now something for you to be jealous, i only wish time would turn back on chosen things: And swim knew a heroin dealer that used to love flunitrazepam and this dealer would need everyday about 5 to 10 2mgs pills(at the time they were 2mgs), this dealer would trade 0.250 per 10 pills, so a junkie that would trade them would have 0.250mg of heroin almost everyday 0.78€ / 2 = 0.36€.. ;)
Those were good days.. At least 0.250mg to 0.5gr of good heroin for less than 1€! Swim was using 1.5grs to 2 grams daily..

SWIM wish i could again write prescriptions like SWIM did.. ;) Old times.. it was like amphetamines to get up, IV junk for the rush and benzos for sleep and relax! Living a chemical life.. swim misses that, he was young at the time and didnt think about the consequences but later he suffered..



I'm not a huge benzo fan. It seems I ALWAYS do stupid, in other words dangerous, things when on them. I used to take a lot of Ambien several yrs ago. I loved the trippy effects, it reminded me of ketamine. I'd have conversation w/ imaginary ppl & watch the walls & curtains breathe, wierd shit. Then I ruined it, I became a heroin addict w/ a need to shoot just about anything(@ my lowest I shot Wellbutrin-sad). If I was out of dope & fiending, I'd shoot my ambien. Ambien has a strange "taste" when shot & now I HATE it & can't even take it orally. I no longer mess w/ the needle but everytime I look @ an ambien it brings back those bad times, like a flashback from hell, lol. After all this I'd say I like Valium the best. It's the only benzo that doesn't get me in trouble, works very well, & can work for sleep or anxiety. My favorites before I fucked up were the hypnotics though. Lastly, Idk how ppl mix benzos & opiates. Everytime I've done it, I've blacked out, last time side-swiping the toll-plaza on the turnpike. So not cool.
Ambien is like triazolam and doesnt represent other benzos at high doses, it happens a lot of weird effects on them at high doses, once i were escaping cops full naked jumping on top of cars during daylight... i was stoned with about 5mgs of triazolam, dont remember tooking it all, but i must cause the boxes were all empty... And i had a large tolerance to the weird effects..
Valium represents more of what benzos are like in high doses..
Ambiem, even in low doses is more "clean" than most benzos.. but i find triazolam "clean" also..

resorcinol
04-27-2009, 06:33 PM
It's interesting that anxiolytics are kicking ass in the poll.

It could be a few things. 1)The really fun hypnotic benzos are rarely prescribed in most countries now in favor of the less fun hypnotic "atypical" benzos (an "atypical" benzo could be lots of fun, but the molecules out there now just aren't as good as typical hypnotics according to most benzo heads).

2)Opioid lovers prefer the more mellow buzz of an anxiolytic, whereas on bluelight there are more people who prefer benzos > opioids (in which case a benzo preferrer might like hypnotics better typically ... I honestly don't know). IDK how anybody could like a benzo more than an opioid in the first place either, though.

3)People can actually remember (if not used to extreme excess) and / or stay awake throughout their anxiolytic benzo experiences; hypnotic benzos are more likely to cause total blackout or pass-out before the fun really kicks in.

4)None of the above OR anxiolytics are just really more fun (if the latter, the hypnotic fiends are anomalies).

DCBA
04-27-2009, 06:46 PM
5) hypnotic fiends are more benzo tolerant and prefer stronger effect from benzos.
etc..

THEPAINTER1960
07-11-2009, 05:45 AM
Re: EleusisII

I could potentially see an attempt to phase out benzos in favor of z-drugs selective for either anxiolysis or hypnosis by the medical community, but I have doubts about it actually happening.

Additionaly, if these drugs were treated more like opioids are, z drugs ARE benzos, they just don't have the "benzodiazepine" aromatic ring system. They certainly bind to the bzd site on GABA(A) as agonists. It follows that the most euphoric "benzo" could be a so called "z drug" that has yet to be synthesized and not a classical benzo.

I think the hallucinogenic activity of zolpidem is a property inherent to some degree to all GABAergic drugs, but an effect that holds more prominence in some agonists than others, perhaps due to subtype-selectivity profile. Amanita mushrooms are said to be hallucinogenic / entheogenic because of their muscimol content, and muscimol is a potent GABA(A) agonist. I also believe this may tie in with the effect zolpidem has on many patients with minimally conscious states: it snaps them right out of it and even shows long term neurogenesis in areas of the brain previously thought to be essentially dead.

My exp with benzos is academic and acutal :) I really do prefer bromazepam over all other benzos (that I've tried): I find it to have more of that warmth and euphoria that I look for.

THEPAINTER1960
07-11-2009, 06:42 AM
I was reading the posts and i think i would have to say the hypnotic kind of benzo.Right now i am on clonipin 90 tabs 1 mg. 3x per day plus i get my girls 90 clonipin whitch i take as extras.But thinking back to the middle 1970's there was not a choice of benzos you have today. When i heard hypnotics back then when we were given medicines to sleep hypnotics were PLACIDYL 750. Now that whitch is discontinued is something that every one should have tried at least once. I am not sure but the only benzo that was out was DALMANE and then in th mid to early the big valiums came out. I WOULD go to thid doctors office upstate new york and i would say doc i cant sleep very well he would say john what do you want placidyl,TUINAL OR SECONAL. So i would end up walking out of the docs office with 30 TUINALS, 60 10 MG. VALIUM AND 30 PERCODANS FOR PAIN .Boy that was the life 1979.Do you know back in 1991 in ORLANDO FLORIDA THERE WAS a doctor still writing those placidyls 750mg. and 500mg. and at the time i was on 100 mg. of METHADONE. Well all things come to an end PLACIDYL WAS TAKEN off the market in about 1992 or 1993. If i am not positive they still make TUINAL and SECONAL AND ALSO AMYATYL..By now thy must be impossible to get. So for right now thank GOD for the overseas pharmacy market where i can get a klonipin no.2 for .80 cents a 10 mg ritalin for .70cents valium,midzolam xanax for.36 cents and i do not see a doctor.Long live SERBIA,PAKISTAN AND SOUTH AFRICA. But if the beauracrats get there way and shut off all overseas pharmacys the thousands maybe millions of people who rely on these people to get their meds benzos especially.Could you imagine the people dieing of seizures going up very scary.Well GOD bless you all johnny

sexualhealing
09-12-2009, 09:22 PM
i chose Anxiolytics.....


mostly because i am scripted klonopin, 4mg/day and also, if i can ever get any extra, they tend to be the xanax/valium/ativan variety around these ways...

i am in love with the klonopins as i can function throughout the day but also fall asleep in a nice nod with a lil snorted sub (~1-2mg tops) and the fact that they are both LEGAL for me is a HUGE plus!

(probation with piss tests is a bitch, no medical mj, so i take what i can, ya know???)


i have not been exposed to many hypnotics, and never @ a high enough dose to get my high ass tolerance....BUT think i would def like them for the late nights where those kpins just take a lil too long to come on strong or such... i think i ciould abuse them to a much further point if given larger doses/easy access if they do provide a more "buzzed" feeling.... im a HUGE fan of the hard nodding....

i have a very weird reaction in that some nights, like tonight, i am feeling my kpins HARD in an hour after dosing.....empty stomach also.... but other nights with same conditions i will wait a good 2 hours plus for a slow and gradual come on..... its very odd as it can be the SAME fucking food, same amount in my stomach, just some days they dont want to be as fun......


i know its off topic, and no way am i trying to derail this thread, but im curious if anyone else who chose anxiolytic's gets this same type of wacked out unset/comeup/peak effect situation as i explained....ive always wondered if i am alone on this or if it really can vary that much with the same circumstances...(kpins specifically, but same effect happens with valium and xanax at times, just not as often but i dont take them as often....)


good thread! (took me at least 5 times typing the last paragrahe as my klonopins are kicking in nice and hard tonight :) )


ahhhhhhhhhhh

EleusisII
10-04-2009, 11:52 PM
But thinking back to the middle 1970's there was not a choice of benzos you have today.

Nah man... Valium and Librium was released in 1960, flurazepam and bromazepam in the 70ies. Nitrazepam in 65... Most of them have been around for a loooong time, though granted two of the most popular ones, xanax and ativan didnt come along until the 80ies.



But if the beauracrats get there way and shut off all overseas pharmacys the thousands maybe millions of people who rely on these people to get their meds benzos especially.Could you imagine the people dieing of seizures going up very scary.Well GOD bless you all johnny

You know something? I'm almost tempted to say "fuck em!"
I don't know if you frequent other drug-ehm fora (cough cough drugbuyers cough cough), but lemme tell ya, the fuckers that come at those olaces are the winiest, most pathetic, selfpitying people you could imagine.

If a package from a vendor is late, they'll cry to high heavens about how "cruel" said vendor are, and how terrible it is that they'll have to go three days without their precious klonopins, like it's the vendors responsibility that the poor, innocent drugbuyer for the fifth time this year has failed to make other arrangements.

The retelling of an ER visit never fails to make them baawww for 6 pages about "the inhumanity!!one!!!!eleven!!" of whatever poor schmuck at the ER who had to deal with their horrible, horrible pain!
(Keep in mind, these people usually have "fibro"or some other very vague ailment, thats painful enough for them to order vicodin from online pharmacies from years on end.)

And don't get me started on the creepy, pedophile like way they talk about "compassionate" doctors. (Doctors who'll script Vicodin for next to nothing).

Nah, obviously the more drugs that are available on the internet, the better for everybody. But seriously, a handful of visits to a place like drugbuyers.com is enough to curse drugseeking patients for awhile.

GOLD N DIEMONDS
10-05-2009, 12:19 AM
Hmm.. The only benzo I've ever seen to be close to euphoric on me, is flunitrazepam. I guess I'm just not a benzo person ;)

But yeah, now that you reminded me, I do remember reading reports about Zolpidem being a "miracle drug" that could awake the comatose. Think I even wrote a little blurb about it myself... That really is a fascinating effect.

As for me, ever since I woke up with half my Ambien bottle gone, keys for a rental car on the table, and no recollection whatever of what happened the night before, I put Zolpidem in the "Fucking evil drug" category ;)

+1,000,000,000 and pretty fucking scary to agree with e so much:D
do not understand why painter does simply not move to Pakistan

going back to your story of Z drugs = all things evil
ever wake wake exactly 2.45 hours after taking proceed to some how unwittingly take 3/4 of said battle , still unable to sleep figures "might as well get some yard work done. Me riding lawn mower has headlight which simply makes mowing the lawn at 3:30 am a breeze. mmmmm try explaining that one to your neighbors. Especially when with no memory of said event, you thought one of them was kind enough to mow your lawn for you:rolleyes:

yup Z'S EVILISH AND EXPENSIVE

OpiumKing
11-03-2009, 03:06 AM
I voted both, although I'm leaning more toward anxiolytic.
I think my favorite are definitley kpins and valium, because of the nice, long half-life, followed by xannies.
I do LOVE halcions though. I should lay off the benzos a little though, don't want to get a habit with those again...
O.K.

Underdose
11-05-2009, 10:24 AM
You know something? I'm almost tempted to say "fuck em!"
I don't know if you frequent other drug-ehm fora (cough cough drugbuyers cough cough), but lemme tell ya, the fuckers that come at those olaces are the winiest, most pathetic, selfpitying people you could imagine.

If a package from a vendor is late, they'll cry to high heavens about how "cruel" said vendor are, and how terrible it is that they'll have to go three days without their precious klonopins, like it's the vendors responsibility that the poor, innocent drugbuyer for the fifth time this year has failed to make other arrangements.

The retelling of an ER visit never fails to make them baawww for 6 pages about "the inhumanity!!one!!!!eleven!!" of whatever poor schmuck at the ER who had to deal with their horrible, horrible pain!
(Keep in mind, these people usually have "fibro"or some other very vague ailment, thats painful enough for them to order vicodin from online pharmacies from years on end.)

And don't get me started on the creepy, pedophile like way they talk about "compassionate" doctors. (Doctors who'll script Vicodin for next to nothing).

Nah, obviously the more drugs that are available on the internet, the better for everybody. But seriously, a handful of visits to a place like drugbuyers.com is enough to curse drugseeking patients for awhile.

I agree with you wholeheartedly...I started on there a long time ago, when I had moved to another state and didn't want to deal with dr.s for my xanax. Everyone talks like they take the smallest doses, only when needed, but are ordering 300 valium/month, 200 xanax, and 100 ambien. Mostly older middle income folks and housewives it seems. Mentioning 'abuse' will get you thrown off the board, but the busiest spot used to be the boards where you could order OC from the mexicans... It was a good place to find quality pharmies though...benzos and opies.

A board full of addicts who don't think they're addicts. To each his own I suppose.

On the original topic: the only one I like anymore is good ol' valium. xanax makes me pass out every time. I used to be scripted 4mg/day of xanax and got tired of sleeping/forgetting/falling. I had serious panic attacks (couldn't breathe, whole body would cramp up) pretty frequently, so it was easy to get them. I liked the fact I had insurance, so I could take my script and trade xannies for percocets and it only cost like 4 bucks....:) I kept half and traded half. I stopped that probably 7-8 years ago when I just got sick of them.

So now I order valium probably 2x a year, a couple hundred gets me by for a long time, I just take them when I need to sleep or when I get some anxiety. I think all my real anxiety back in the day was cause by a lot of hallucinogens and cocaine, that was what we were into back then...

TigerFan
11-05-2009, 10:42 AM
Anxiolytics

Prefer valium above all the others, it's smooth and lasts a while. Valium seems to be excellent for opiate withdrawal because it can help with sleep/anxiety/RLS and because it is long-acting (provided you don't just puke it up). However, I'm not a big fan of benzos overall. They seem to feel euphoric for about 30 mins followed by an overwhelming need to sleep. They almost seem like alcohol without the buzz.

Plus benzos freak me out because of:

1) alcohol+benzo=instant blackout (for me anyway)
2)addiction; because they really aren't overly euphoric (for me) its easy to just keep taking them daily and before you know it large doses don't have any effect and you're faced with the god-awful benzo withdrawal. They are also VERY cheap and available.