Opy t-shirt, AA, and day 3-4 kicking

[Duckfeet]

After going out, and skinning it, yesterday, bodysurfing and shit, I'm feeling alright, and I stir-fried me some rice and shrimp in my wok, and felt fit and tuff, so I trot down to my AA meeting, and when I get there, this clown is out front, and says "what's this?" and points at my orange opiophile t-shirt...and I laugh--I'm easygoing, usually--say it's just a site I go to, why?

He said: "Would you wear a BUDWEISER T-shirt to a meeting???"

"No, I say, "But I hate Budweiser, Guiness, maybe..." but I know where it's going, and I like to fight sometimes so I add: "I got a *suggestion* for *you*: Don't read the motherfucker, you don't like it..."

And then this other guy, an old german, you know, w/the accent, and a Christian, all that, wants to jump in, says: "When Irisn Phill was still alive, he used to wear the Bushmills t-shirt too--that's not *recovery*!!!"

But they're fucking with the wrong motherfucker, so I come back: "I don't like fucking bibles at meetings neither, but you bring one, and I manage to keep my mouth shut, so maybe the two of you might do the same!!!"

Then they start talking "recovery" crap, and t-shirts and shit, and I say: "I thought you all were *Big Book* thumpers...now yer sounding like bunch of fag treatment center counselors: tell me what *page* in the Big Book does it say what *t-shirts* to wear at meetings...

And by this time, there's like *five* of them, but I'm feeling *really* healthy lately, and my prison tattoos are all shiny, and my muscles are firm: these fuckers are my age or younger, and they're all overweight, or sickly, or fucked in some kind of way...and then the German guy makes another error, and starts talking about "Everything in AA comes from the bible..."

"And I lay into him, saying then why didn't all them biblethumpers stay sober in their fucking churches then, rather than take up space here, and when Bill W. was about to drink after six months he didn't get on his knees and pray or go to fucking church, but found him a crazy drunk to help, and the Oxford Group morphed into Moral Rearmament, which supported Nazi Germany where it finally died just like that murderous regime did...

And I thought he would have a heart attack, he *hates* mention of that, since he's german, etc....

And this got'em all yelling and screaming...then the meeting started and we all laughed and cooled off: they don't want to go toe to toe with me...hahahaha

Don't *fuck* with a guy kicking methadone, w/an orange Opy t-shirt on!!!

[Consumed.]

I need me a t-shirt bad...

[nick]

You tell 'em bro.

Couple of things,

1.Maybe check out Bill W'S letters.Near the end he was in touch with carl Jung and there's a really interesting letter from Jung to Wilson on the nature of addiction.Something about addicts searching to be whole.It's pretty interesting.

2.Pleased and proud that you are now posting in the recovery forum,as opposed to the methadone forum.

Still got fingers crossed for you,but not for much longer because I figure you're doing fine.Way to go.

[rockbottom]

funny as fuck:)

[jacky]

well, you should let them know that Bill W really didnt see certian things as detrimental to the program.
after he did LSD, he suggested it be used in conjunction to meetings....of course the AA system by that point didnt like what he had to say, and this fact of his use and approval of LSD use is mostly covered up or ignored.

and also the BIGGEST BULLSHIT lie about AA and NA is that people are usually lighting up with nicotine after the meeting, and usually also DURING the meetings.
nicotine/tobacco consumption is right up there as #1 cause of death in the USA...
so if its so bad for you, why do they have smoking meetings still in some areas, why is taking an active psychoactive like nicotine white washed and being a "light" drug, or not even a drug at all?
and then of course the caffeine machine is always brewing at these meetings as well, a substance that can cause some significant withdrawl effects when cut off, a substance that some people abuse and seem to get out of control with.....
things like that are poo poo'd to the side and dealt with while they still are treating cannabis like its something so bad that you might just go to NA just for cannabis addiction!
I know that even in medical cannabis states, certian treatment centers do not allow people to utilize their prescription cannabis,they still treat medical cannabis as a street drug.

I'd like to see how many people would stick with NA and AA if they didnt tolerate nicotine.

now...
I have done plenty of meetings..
both AA and NA...
I have done them sober, and fucked up.
I met some cool people, and had some good times, and early on, the meetings even helped for awhile...but eventually the bullshit would start, the jesus freaks would single me out, drama and personality conflicts would appear....and basically it just seemed like high school all over again.
I found the bigger the city, the better the meetings generally were.

and alot of times people were dealing dope at meetings...people were fucking around on their husbands and wives with various slutbaggers...it was generally alltogether a crappy waste of time for me.

there were some decent places and people, and I am not trying to bag on the program as a whole, if it works for you I think that is great.....but I know that alot of the meetings are just full of court ordered indivuduals that just start the same ego bullshit that they were perpetrating on drugs, but now they got their clean time, and use it like a fucking badge.

most people in a meeting are not going to decipher the back of that shirt either.....to tell you the truth, I wouldnt choose to wear an opi shirt to a meeting....but then I did used to shoot dope at meetings anyway, and blame people who were suspicious of me being high of doing the exact same.....that REALLY pisses people off.

rational recovery is a step in the right direction.

keep up the meeting and clean time while you can!!

[Duckfeet]

Yep: you obviously know your history^^^Jacky: in *many* places in this country they talk really bad about Bill W., and there are oldtimers who get angry at how he "screwed up AA"...but what these idiots don't know, is that really have studied it my ownself, been up to Acron OH on my harley a while ago, and when dilaudids took me "back out" I felt for years, I just didn't fit in there, but felt uncomfortable in NA, maybe because of the vocabulary, I don't know...

But I was just broke and on the streets in FL, when I quit drinking, and came off methadone last time, in '99, and they were just nice to me, and by then I had read the history, and knew about Jim Burwell and Hank Parkhurst, and other guys who had *fought* to change AA from being all-cristian creationism, to adding "as we understood him" to "God" and Burwell also added the 3rd trad, which states *only* requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking...and also for every creationist religious reference, there is also a "higher power" or other notion...

I came in there a hopeless atheist, and they helped get my life together, and I actually like the piss out of AA, and need to go there, stay busy, all that...but my struggles w/opiates are *different* and that's why NA don't fit me...and AA got me off the bottle, without which I couldn't *begin* to address opiates, as anytime I drink, by second beer I'm saying "fuck it..." and go cop...

But my heroin addiction is more a private struggle, and all I try is to keep it at bay, day at a time...so far,
so good....

--and I don't wear my t-shirt to meetings, or to Yoga, or down on the beach, because it means a lot to me, loaded or straight, and I get to riled up when people think they understand something they'll never, ever, understand...I wasn't thinking...

All of AA is based on one simple notion: that one *alcoholic* can talk to another *alcoholic*, lessening his feeling of "being different" to where he will take actions he does not yet believe in...

And that saved me...but when they make the jump to opiates...I shut down: they have no empathy...now, maybe a vicodin popping alkie thinks it's "all the same thing..." but I've been a lifetime heroin addicted junky, who's had lengthy periods off of opiates, thru not listening to *any* of them, and finding my own way out...as do most of us...

Me I just have dual-boot operating system in my brain: when I'm in AA, I talk about my drinking...when I'm all by my lonesome, or find the occasional young opiate addict struggling in meetings, they I'll boot up my junky OS, and let'em know they're not alone...

[Raz]

Man i got some kinda cosmic karmic theory that certain people in this world were born in the wrong time....And somehow the greater power that somehow saves your arse from disaster/death puts people like that on opiates/booze...

coz if we werent fighting this crazy eternal battle within, we wouldnt have anything holding us back from doin what we are capable of....In some cases i think maybe we got put on opiates/booze to save us from doin some other crazy shit....That could kill us or keep us in jail forever....

Truly i been in situations where if the fuckin safety valve dont get switched on in my head, then i am capable of doin serious damage.....BUT i never ever start trouble or cause problems coz i know how serious trouble can be.....But dont fuck wiv me and you'll be ok...Fuck wiv me then you brought it on yaself.....

I hope your doin well my bro.....It must feel good to be free....And let em fuckin know your the real fuckin deal every fuckin time....You more than paid your dues my bro....

[jonny-5]

hah thats a great story...i used to go to meetings wearing my "djs dont share needles" shirt and it would piss people off to no end. i would say hey its record needles man....who the fuck cares what shirt im wearing as long as theres no needles in my veins?

nice going duck.

[Raz]

It makes me laugh that some idiots can get so wound up about a T shirt and its slogan...wtf is up wiv these dudes man.....Looks like they need shit to obsess about no matter what....If it werent the t shirt it would be something else......

[Duckfeet]

Yeah, it's actually kind of funny, because these are people who really think they *know* AA, and always get mad when people say things "not in the book" blah blah blah...and so I started with that: "I must have missed that page that told us not to wear wierd t-shirts" at meetings...

But the main thing, to me, is that they forget what is called "rule 62", which is not to take yourself so damned seriously...but they don't fuck with me, and most of'em are in really bad shape, and can hardly get around, and I'm doing good, so they tolerate me, and that's all I want...

Way to go, Raz, I know you been struggling w/all this shit yer own self, and like many others, I follow your career w/interest :)


Raz: It makes me laugh that some idiots can get so wound up about a T shirt and its slogan...wtf is up wiv these dudes man.....Looks like they need shit to obsess about no matter what....If it werent the t shirt it would be something else......

[geanine.aurora]

Good for you. You can wear whatever you want. F them if they can't take a joke!!! I also go to AA. I know that it works. I have not been keeping in touch here on the board. Where are you in your methadone reduction? Take care.

[dharma bum]

All of AA is based on one simple notion: that one *alcoholic* can talk to another *alcoholic*, lessening his feeling of "being different" to where he will take actions he does not yet believe in...

And that saved me...but when they make the jump to opiates...I shut down: they have no empathy...now, maybe a vicodin popping alkie thinks it's "all the same thing..." but I've been a lifetime heroin addicted junky, who's had lengthy periods off of opiates, thru not listening to *any* of them, and finding my own way out...as do most of us...

Me I just have dual-boot operating system in my brain: when I'm in AA, I talk about my drinking...when I'm all by my lonesome, or find the occasional young opiate addict struggling in meetings, they I'll boot up my junky OS, and let'em know they're not alone...

Damn Duck, this one got me in my bitter heart. Reminded me of one old-timer who 'sensed' my utter anguish. Looking back now, it was probably easy to see...but he looked at me w/ tears in his eyes and said, " If there's anybody in here who hasn't been told they are loved today,then i want you to know, I love you." And he fucking meant it. I wanted to be tough but i could barely hold back tears. That was back when I was truly lost and helpless---i didn't have a clue how to manage this beast yet and was reaching for straws..And wasn't disillusioned yet with the program and hadn't seen all the bullshit---and these people with years of clean time seemed like super-heroes to me.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that their is something truly uplifting and humane in many of your posts. I'm hoping you've got a novel/biography, something hid away for all of us to read one day.Good luck with this struggle. If anybody will be the ultima hombre in this fucked up game it will be you.

Now I'm gonna go before I get any sappier.

[Duckfeet]

Good for you. You can wear whatever you want. F them if they can't take a joke!!! I also go to AA. I know that it works. I have not been keeping in touch here on the board. Where are you in your methadone reduction? Take care.


I'm somewhere betwen day 5 and 6, and have to remind myself I'm detoxing methadone, to be honest, as I'm feeling pretty good: each day, so far, has been better than the day before...hard not to get my hopes up, to be honest, that I might once again, be free...sloiw detox seems to have been the right move, and a few other things, and of course, if I'm successful, I'll never really know what was the *main* thing....hell, I think that when I swam around the pier on day one, that I was going to be alright, as I hadn't swam around that old pier in over two years...thanks everybody, for all the support...

[Duckfeet]

Thankyou for this post: It's the kindness at times, of some of the oldtimers, when I've been in despair, that keeps me going, even when I didn't believe a word of it, just needed *somebody* to pat me on the back...and there was always somebody...

Damn Duck, this one got me in my bitter heart. Reminded me of one old-timer who 'sensed' my utter anguish. Looking back now, it was probably easy to see...but he looked at me w/ tears in his eyes and said, " If there's anybody in here who hasn't been told they are loved today,then i want you to know, I love you." And he fucking meant it. I wanted to be tough but i could barely hold back tears. That was back when I was truly lost and helpless---i didn't have a clue how to manage this beast yet and was reaching for straws..And wasn't disillusioned yet with the program and hadn't seen all the bullshit---and these people with years of clean time seemed like super-heroes to me.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that their is something truly uplifting and humane in many of your posts. I'm hoping you've got a novel/biography, something hid away for all of us to read one day.Good luck with this struggle. If anybody will be the ultima hombre in this fucked up game it will be you.

Now I'm gonna go before I get any sappier.

[geanine.aurora]

Wow!! If you've made it this far the rest is cake! I am so glad you are free of the clinic.