Ibogaine Treatment?

[blutuesday]

I just read this, I have no idea if it works. i'm sure some of you here know about this or have heard about it but I just found out a friend that has been clean for 3 months and swears by it. she also says that the treatment is not near as expensive as all the sites say they are. She paid $750 total and most sites say $4000. USD. She had been on dope for like ever and tried EVERY thing possible.




This is from http://www.ibogaine.co.uk/

Ibogaine is a psychoactive indole alkaloid derived from the rootbark of an African plant - Tabernanthe iboga. In recent years it has been increasingly noted for its ability to treat both drug and alcohol addiction. Both scientific studies and widespread anecdotal reports appear to suggest that a single administration of ibogaine has the ability to both remove the symptoms of drug withdrawal and reduce drug-craving for a period of time after administration. In addition, the drug's psychoactive properties (in large doses it can induce a dreamlike state for a period of hours) have been widely credited with helping users understand and reverse their drug-using behaviour.
Studies suggest that ibogaine has considerable potential in the treatment of addiction to heroin, cocaine, crack cocaine, methadone, and alcohol. There is also indication that it may be useful in treating tobacco dependence. It has also been suggested that the drug may have considerable potential in the field of psychotherapy, particularly as a treatment for the effects of trauma or conditioning.
A single administration of ibogaine typically has three effects useful in the treatment of drug dependence. Firstly, it causes a massive reduction in the symptoms of drug withdrawal, allowing relatively painless detoxification. Secondly, there is a marked lowering in the desire to use drugs for a period of time after taking ibogaine, typically between one week and several months. This has been confirmed by scientific studies. Finally, the drug's psychoactive nature is reported to help many users understand and resolve the issues behind their addictive behaviour.
Ibogaine can be easily administered, in capsule form, and has no addictive effects itself. It is essentially a "one-shot" medication and, used in a fully clinical setting with proper advance medical screening, the drug thus far appears to be safe to use. Whilst it certainly happens that some individuals stop using drugs permanently from a single dose of ibogaine, for many the treatment should best be regarded as simply the initial component in an overall rehabilitation programme.
Although approved for clinical trials (trials on humans) for the treatment of addiction in the US in the early 1990s, problems with financial backing and other issues have so hindered the development of ibogaine that, as of early 2005, it remains undeveloped and thus unavailable to the majority of addicts worldwide. There are however now an increasing number of private clinics, located mostly around the Caribbean and Central and South America, that offer ibogaine treatment at prices starting around £2,000, (approx US$4000). Some lay treatment providers offer lower cost treatment, with varying levels of medical facilities, in Europe. In addition, ibogaine, either in pure form or as a plant extract, has become available from some lay sources on the internet.
Ibogaine's current legal status in the UK, and much of the rest of the world, is that of an unlicensed, experimental medication, and it not therefore an offence to possess the drug, though to act as a distributor may be breaking the law. Ibogaine is a restricted substance (possession is illegal) in some countries, including the US, Switzerland, Denmark, Sweden and Belgium.

[blutuesday]

well now I just read the forum moderator thing and it does mention it so. Meh. I just got overly excited. Im sitting home dopesick wishing some of that shit to arrive at my doorstep.

[underide]

Ibogaine treatment almost booked now - end of march/start of april. Dead set and almost ready to go, just a matter of time now

Still deciding on the exact date, also depending on my doctor's/Ibogaine provider's, (who is actually a doctor with a surgeon's license) timetable.

Gonna have to quit work most likely because the whole gig as the doc explained to me might take at least about a month or two to take in, in order to actually make the treatment work (even though the actual treatment only lasts a few days), and i got no more holidays left - just used up my last a few weeks ago.

But that's not important - shitty job anyway

I'm actually looking forward to spring, albeit still just a tad bit apprehensive

But i have spoken to a very nice fellow here, who went through it with the same doctor that's gonna treat me, and after about 15 years of heroin+methadne use, this guy has been clean for almost a year now since the treatment. Also looks a good few years younger than he did (judging by his pics) before the treatment.
Anyway, that meeting with the aforementioned bloke only reinforced my determination to go through with it.

edit - the cost for my upcoming treatment - 2,000 euro for the treatment and 300 euro for the ibogaine itself
my folks are happy to help out which is awesome

[EleusisII]

well now I just read the forum moderator thing and it does mention it so. Meh. I just got overly excited. Im sitting home dopesick wishing some of that shit to arrive at my doorstep.

Hey man,

If it's too good to sound true, it usually is. We all wish Underride luck, and can't wait to hear how it goes for him, but the fact remains, that Ibogaine is completely unproven, has no scientific data behind it, and the method and mechanism behind it, why it would help, is completely unexplained. I feel better about him doing it, if there's a licenced doctor behind it, that's for sure...

However, it's being pushed very hard by some people, partly I suspect, because they make VERY good money providing an essentially unregulated treatment, andpartly because it's "natural", "holistic" and all that hippy-dippy crap that attracts hippy-dippy people...

[underide]

eleusis - i really wish you had something to back your claims up that Ibogain is 'unproven'

There were Scientific tests done both on animals:

"Ibogaine's ability to attenuate opioid withdrawal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withdrawal) confirmed in the rat was first published by Dzoljic et al. (1988).[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibogaine#cite_note-13) Ibogaine's use in diminishing morphine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morphine) self-administration in preclinical studies was shown by Glick et al. (1991)[15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibogaine#cite_note-14) and ibogaine's capacity to reduce cocaine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocaine) self-administration in the rat was shown by Cappendijk et al. (1993).[16] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibogaine#cite_note-15) Animal model support for ibogaine claims to treat alcohol dependence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_dependence) were established by Rezvani (1995).[17] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibogaine#cite_note-16)"



and also on humans:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syztZcpj69U

in the above clip you will see Dr. Deborah Mash who did Ibo treatment with a large group of people (outside of us - due to legality isssues) with very good success rates


P.S - thank you for the well wishes though

[nick]

It's a last,desperate throw of the dice for folks that have tried everything else.Hell,what have they got to lose?

Fingers crossed for you Underide.

[EleusisII]

Who knows Underide... Maybe those scientific experiments you posted are good and valid. I'll look through it when I have time, and see if it's kosher.

Now what I meant was, that anybody can make an experiment and write a paper. Sometimes they do it not with scientific interests in mind, but to promote themselves and a certain agenda.

(For example, there are studies and journals on 9/11 conspiracy theories!)

What matters is: Is this procedure, and the conclusions of this study supported by many experts, or the majority of experts in this field? Has the study had an "hell yeah!" response from other scientists?

When it comes to Ibogaine, and ibogaine-studies, it doesn't seem like it has had the kind of reception a truly revolutionising treatment would have.

(Some hippy-dippy types would say that this is all because of a massive methadone-conspiracy, but forget about A: The usually altruic nature of people in this line of work, B: Profits on methadone are very small, and profits on a new ibogaine treatment would be much higher, but I digress)

Ibogaine simply doesn't seem to have impressed the scientific community much.
Now what hopefully is the case is, that it works on some people, and that it'll work on you. Obviously it has worked for SOME people. Good luck, ad keep your chin up!

[underide]

thanks, Nick


Ibogaine is not a 'magic bullet' cure, after a while some people still relapse

but what is extraordinary, is that Ibogaine HAS been proven to work at detoxifying people within a matter of hours - an hour after taking ibogaine, your withdrawal symptoms disappear (at least for the majority of people for whom it reportedly works). what other substance apart from opiates can do that?

and for the poeple for whom it does work, your cravings dissapear along with your physical withdrawal. there is nothing in the world (that we know of) that can do that. Even if it doesn't work for ALL, it does seem to work for the majority (even if sometimes it works only on temporary basis for some) and that is what i find absolutely amazing, and that is why it makes it so hard for everyone else to believe.

So yeah, it's totally understandable that most people just don't believe it outright - seems too good to be true, and it is, but then again it is been stated that it is no majic cure either
While it can detoxyfy you, you might need a long term plan of how to stay after the 'revalation of ibogaine experience' passes. That's why some therapists provide 'follow up' treatments for more succeptible those to relapse. And some people are even CURED for life (it seems) after just one experience (take DR, Lotsof for instance)
And that is what i find absolutely amazing


edit - Eluesis - if you ever have time, watch this documentary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-Ap5lyYcI0

^^it is slightly bit on the 'sensationalist' side, but overall it's pretty interesting and informative

[Saint]

So you're going to take the plunge after all, Under?! I thought you were going to order it through me! (Haha, just kidding, inside joke you know what I mean).
But seriously, I can't wait to hear the results.
Personally I have always been a bit sceptical about ibogaine. There have been a few deaths as a result of ibogaine treatment but that was mainly due to lousy treatment (no licensed docs/patients were in bad health but not checked before undergoing treatment).

It is not for me since I doubt that ibogaine treats CP.
But for those who can't do a taper or quit for whatever reason it could be a solution. However, I don't like the trippy/LSD effects of ibogaine. That shit always scares the hell out of me.

And why aren't there a thousand official 'ibogaine treatment centres' by now if the stuff really works miracles? All that makes me a little suspicious..

But I want to keep an open mind since it isn't proven that ibogaine doesn't work either.
So please share your story when you're done, Underide!

[underide]

will certainly do, Saint

[Seedy]

...
And why aren't there a thousand official 'ibogaine treatment centres' by now if the stuff really works miracles? All that makes me a little suspicious..

But I want to keep an open mind since it hasn't been proven that ibogaine doesn't work either.
So please share your story when you're done, Underide!

I'm guessing it's because it involves giving the patient an intense 24 hour long psychedalic experience. Who is going to fork out the $$$ for propper funding of something that a) only benefits degenerate drug addicts, and b) involves giving powerful drugs to degenerate drug addicts? Science is a pretty conservative business. Anything that goes against the grain is shunned by mainstream science. Most of the really revolutionary scientists (Darwin, Tesla for example) are thought of as crackpots all their lives.

[Saint]

I'm guessing it's because it involves giving the patient an intense 24 hour long psychedalic experience. Who is going to fork out the $$$ for propper funding of something that a) only benefits degenerate drug addicts, and b) involves giving powerful drugs to degenerate drug addicts? Science is a pretty conservative business. Anything that goes against the grain is shunned by mainstream science. Most of the really revolutionary scientists (Darwin for example) are thought of as crackpots all their lives.

Yes, you have a point there.
I always wondered why they didn't research many things that relate to opiate use/withdrawal from opiate use like brainfog, IBS, constipation, RLS, other maintenance therapies etc. etc. but then I wake up and snap out of it: ofcourse they are not going to invest their precious dollars in a bunch of retarded junkies.. sad but true.
(Ever read Darwin's Journey of the Beagle? I love that book).

[Seedy]

^^ no but i'll have to remember that one!

[EleusisII]

edit - Eluesis - if you ever have time, watch this documentary:

I dunno man... I happen to believe that youtube has actually made the world a worse and stupider place... :)

But I want to keep an open mind since it isn't proven that ibogaine doesn't work either.

Logical phallacy there my friend... You can't prove a negative. I can prove you exist, but I can't prove you don't exist. You can prove Ibogaine works, but you can't prove that it doesn't work. You have to approach it from the other end: What is the proof that it works?

Who is going to fork out the $$$ for propper funding of something that a) only benefits degenerate drug addicts, and b) involves giving powerful drugs to degenerate drug addicts?
People that don't like the crime associated with degenrate addicts? The same people that provide funding for methadone studies, and provide addicts with methadone and bupe? Those are pretty powerful drugs...

Anything that goes against the grain is shunned by mainstream science.
Back in the 90ies, some politicians in Europe actually tried to explore ibogaine as a treatment option, but the iffy science of it put a stop to it...

Most of the really revolutionary scientists (Darwin, Tesla for example) are thought of as crackpots all their lives.

Well in all fairness, Tesla WAS a crackpot... Deathrays? Come on!

[EleusisII]

I always wondered why they didn't research many things that relate to opiate use/withdrawal from opiate use like brainfog, IBS, constipation, RLS, other maintenance therapies

They DO research that shit... Just look at the thread about the new injectionable drug against constipation on opiophile. It was made specifically for opiate constipation.
All the stuff you mention also affects regular painpatients, so there is a lot of research being done on those things. Us junkies benefit from it as a sideeffect...

[blutuesday]

Hey man,

If it's too good to sound true, it usually is. We all wish Underride luck, and can't wait to hear how it goes for him, but the fact remains, that Ibogaine is completely unproven, has no scientific data behind it, and the method and mechanism behind it, why it would help, is completely unexplained. I feel better about him doing it, if there's a licenced doctor behind it, that's for sure...

However, it's being pushed very hard by some people, partly I suspect, because they make VERY good money providing an essentially unregulated treatment, andpartly because it's "natural", "holistic" and all that hippy-dippy crap that attracts hippy-dippy people...

Well I am a nurse by profession and I have a personal friend who told me that it worked for her. I am hardly a hippy.

And I am also not a man

[Duckfeet]

This thread periodically pops up...I'll say same thing I always say, my own personal experience w/the people that run, or work, at those places, is that it's a scam, and *sometimes*--like down in Mexico--people have died...but the fuckers are getting like scientoligists, and get really nasty when people talk bad about'em...fuck'em, they prey on people who are out of hope...I say get on methadone, then detox slowly...there's no free lunch: not subs, not super-fast detoxes of any kind, including ibogaine...

From William Burroughs and his love affair w/apomorphine on down to present times, all junkies got the same junk equation: they just don't want to pay up when it's time to pay...oh well...

And quiet as it's kept, since in "Junky" apendix WB gushes about apomorhine, etc...there's a reason he ended up in Kansas--and NYC--back on junk, then methadone, and didn't fly back to England for Apo again,,,he knew....he knew that it was just a wishful thinking freebie, that we all get, once in a while...

No Free Lunch...

[Saint]

They DO research that shit... Just look at the thread about the new injectionable drug against constipation on opiophile. It was made specifically for opiate constipation.
All the stuff you mention also affects regular painpatients, so there is a lot of research being done on those things. Us junkies benefit from it as a sideeffect...

Apparently not enough. My painspecialist told me that a small percentage of methadone addicts don't return to 'normal', or suffer the 'tunnelsyndrome' meaning that they remain in a state of permanent withdrawal after quitting done while others don't. And they don't know what's causing it.
So I asked him why those things aren't researched he told me that science is reluctant to invest money in any research where methadone/heroin addicts are involved.
But yes, you're right that we benefit from other research as a side effect but I think it's not enough.

Ah well, us poor junkies, haha.

[Consumed.]

(Some hippy-dippy types would say that this is all because of a massive methadone-conspiracy, but forget about A: The usually altruic nature of people in this line of work, B: Profits on methadone are very small, and profits on a new ibogaine treatment would be much higher, but I digress)



Im sorry but in some states methadone profits have made people into millionaires. First state being Florida with carriage house. It is all owned by one man and there are no state run clinics. Thirteen dollars a dose (and they cost five cents to make) and he hires some cheap LPNs and ten dollar an hour counselors. Anytime the state isnt involved you cant say there isnt profits in methadone cause that guy in Florida is making all the cash...

[EleusisII]

So I asked him why those things aren't researched he told me that science is reluctant to invest money in any research where methadone/heroin addicts are involved.


And it's a pretty small group of people too. Ya gotta admit, that in the big picture of things, this problem probably comes in somewhere in the mid hundreds, in the list of "medical problems we need a goddamn cure for, like yesterday!"

No doubt though, that research in this could lead to some interesting, and unexpected results.

[Duckfeet]

My totally cynical view on this, is the same as my view of why they don't investigate *aspirin* which has all kinds of therapeutic qualities that are always coming to light...
There's no money in it...the reason, often, that you'll see people in chronic pain get on methadone, isn't that it is so wonderful, but that it is so generic, and hence, so much cheaper...drug companies dictate where the real research money goes, and there are all kinds of books showing why academia, and serious pharmaceutical/scientific research goes in only *one* direction, and that's just whichever way the big pharmaceutical companies want it to go: why would they give a shit about a bunch of poor junkies, who aren't going to buy their products anyway, hence, on methadone, we depend so much on what I consider limited, out of date, studies, and mostly personal anecdotes, and even plain old "who's the most persuasive online..."

My own view is that we have to eventually sort out all this for ourselves...I never quite bought into the EDS stuff, tho I have close friends who believe in it strongly, and they have much stats and stuff to prove it...but if I really believed in it I wouldn't be trying so hard to get off methadone...

On the other hand, if I could have gotten into Canada, or had mustered up the juice to go to England or Europe, I would have been on heroin maintenance, which I *do* believe in, tho for other reasons....mostly because getting off opiates just takes so fucking long for me, for it to work, and also, simply because I like the way opiates make me feel, while feeling good "off dope," takes daily, somewhat strenuous, sustained effort...and I'm lazy...

But I never think my truths are universal truths...just what works for me, and that's always in flux...best wishes to you Saint, whichever road u take...

Apparently not enough. My painspecialist told me that a small percentage of methadone addicts don't return to 'normal', or suffer the 'tunnelsyndrome' meaning that they remain in a state of permanent withdrawal after quitting done while others don't. And they don't know what's causing it.
So I asked him why those things aren't researched he told me that science is reluctant to invest money in any research where methadone/heroin addicts are involved.
But yes, you're right that we benefit from other research as a side effect but I think it's not enough.

Ah well, us poor junkies, haha.

[EleusisII]

Im sorry but in some states methadone profits have made people into millionaires.

I'm sure private clinics are making a profit, and imagine what profits those crafty fuckers would haul in with an ibogaine treatment. (Especially since it would be difficult, to supply an inexpensive state-run program)

Anyways, I wasn't denying that some people make a profit from methadone programs, what I meant was, that the argument about ibogaine being blocked because of some methadone-profit conspiracy is ridiculous. There are no patents on methadone, so the big bad pharmaceutical companies only make pennies of it.
And because there usually are cheap (or free) state run methadone programs, there is a natural ceiling on how big a profit can be made on methadone. Sure, people might be willing to pay a price that's 10, 15 or even 20 dollars higher than the staterun alternative, because of the convenience and benefits over state run methadone programs. But not much more.

The private sector would probably profit, and haul in loads of cash, if ibogaine was legal, so Ibogaines iffy legal and medical status isn't because of some percieved "methadone industry".

[EleusisII]

My totally cynical view on this, is the same as my view of why they don't investigate *aspirin* which has all kinds of therapeutic qualities that are always coming to light...

Ah, but you are wrong my friend... There have been plenty studies done about lowly aspirin, and what positive effects it has on a number of different ailments, over the last decade.
While the money from pharmaceutical companies often dictate what studies are done, there are still quite a few scientists and doctors out there, who aren't in it for the money.
And you forget how much research is still supported by grants, and of course national authorities.
(I guess the following might be considered yet another benefit of nationalized healthcare)
In Europe, where heathcare is often nationalized, it is in the interest of health-authorities to fund research that will save money in the long run: What is the cheapest and most effective treatment for a stroke, for example. I believe that's how they came up with the studies that showed, that a daily aspirin can prevent numeorus heartattacks.

Speaking of us addicts in general, I'd suggest that we're actually a little spoiled. If you look at how few drug-addicts there are, I'd say that there is a disproportionate amount of research done in the area of drug dependence.
(There are for example not just one, but several frequently published, high quality scientific journals that deal with dependence, drugs and abuse exclusively)
Much of that research is funded by grants from foundations and governments, becuase if there is one thing governments know about us junkies, it's that the fact that they spend always end up spending a lot of money on us.

[EleusisII]

Well I am a nurse by profession and I have a personal friend who told me that it worked for her. I am hardly a hippy.
And I am also not a man

I was using the colloqial term "man", not the litteral one. And I never said that ALL proponents of ibogaine are hippies. But the most ardent one of those, certainly seem to be.
Just look at their illogical insistance that because it's "natural" it's superior or inherently beneficial, or their somewhat paranoid insistance on ibogaine treatment and research being "suppresed".

[Duckfeet]

Oh, I actually realised when I posted, that my thoughts on this, are strictly about the U.S. studies, and my views of what drives them...

Many of us, newly diagnosed w/hepC back in mid-nineties, when both hepC (up to then, was called nonA-nonB hep) , *and* the Internet were new...started doing research on "alternative" Hepatitis C treatments, way back when it was first discovered, and interferon alone wasn't cutting it, realised that *Europe*, due to the nature of medical care over there--also China, to be honest--*were* doing studies on milk thistle, and that's where I always found up to date aspirin studies, also...

So what I posted was just a bit of a local-yokel rant, and typical of us yanks to forget there are other people on this planet...thanks for reminding me, I stand corrected....


Ah, but you are wrong my friend... There have been plenty studies done about lowly aspirin, and what positive effects it has on a number of different ailments, over the last decade.
While the money from pharmaceutical companies often dictate what studies are done, there are still quite a few scientists and doctors out there, who aren't in it for the money.
And you forget how much research is still supported by grants, and of course national authorities.
(I guess the following might be considered yet another benefit of nationalized healthcare)
In Europe, where heathcare is often nationalized, it is in the interest of health-authorities to fund research that will save money in the long run: What is the cheapest and most effective treatment for a stroke, for example. I believe that's how they came up with the studies that showed, that a daily aspirin can prevent numeorus heartattacks.

Speaking of us addicts in general, I'd suggest that we're actually a little spoiled. If you look at how few drug-addicts there are, I'd say that there is a disproportionate amount of research done in the area of drug dependence.
(There are for example not just one, but several frequently published, high quality scientific journals that deal with dependence, drugs and abuse exclusively)
Much of that research is funded by grants from foundations and governments, becuase if there is one thing governments know about us junkies, it's that the fact that they spend always end up spending a lot of money on us.

[Consumed.]

I was using the colloqial term "man", not the litteral one. And I never said that ALL proponents of ibogaine are hippies. But the most ardent one of those, certainly seem to be.
Just look at their illogical insistance that because it's "natural" it's superior or inherently beneficial, or their somewhat paranoid insistance on ibogaine treatment and research being "suppresed".

Dont fuck with Blue!!!!!!!!

Fact is mucho money is being made on methadone. I also think ibogaine is a last ditch effort in treatment. First off I wouldnt trust any substance that has the chance of making you hallucinate. If there was real documented promising studies then it would be in the mainstream treatment with methadone and buprenorphine.

Little known, but methadone is the number one studied drug in the history of the US. Especially in terms of longevity which coincides with its safety. Now they are telling you mixing benzos with methadone can be bad on the heart after allll these years. Yeah right, it has nothing to do with that. It has to do with people ODing on combinations of drugs mixed with methadone and the stigmatism from that stupid fuckin movie. Every single state should only have state run clinics. Cause these motherfuckers that own clinics in states that have no involvment are basically running drug dealing establishment. Everyone in FL knows that. Fuckin bars on the window, they wont let you borrow .15, NO INSURANCE TAKEN PERIOD. That should be fuckin illegal.Its a really pathetic situation so there's no wonder why people are trying any alternative routes they can such as ibogaine, and the ultra rapid detoxes. There fucking raping desperate people who want to get clean. Its bullshit. And CA, having to fail their methadone detox twice before you can go on maint. yet weed is legal for all types of shit. Can you say paradox? California with more people in jail alone than the rest of the world combined. Fucking pathetic. All this drug shit is backwards. The neutral countries have it right with their health insurance, taking care of their people and solving drug problems. Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Austria etc.... I feel like saying fuck America sometimes....

(thanks DF!)

[Duckfeet]

Exactly! Well fucking put, all of it!


Dont fuck with Blue!!!!!!!!

Fact is mucho money is being made on methadone. I also think ibogaine is a last ditch effort in treatment.

<snip snip>

The neutral countries have it right with their health insurance, taking care of their people and solving drug problems. Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Austria etc.... I feel like saying fuck America sometimes....

[Diluted]

I'm thinking Ibogaine. Order it online, do it at home.

I know it'd work well with my Subs, but do you think it'd help with the Benzo withdrawal? (see my other post about how I got hooked again)

[Consumed.]

I'm thinking Ibogaine. Order it online, do it at home.

I know it'd work well with my Subs, but do you think it'd help with the Benzo withdrawal? (see my other post about how I got hooked again)


Dude I dont know if youve searched it but the BEST thing you can use for benzo WD/s is neurontin. Ive used it, theres studies out there, it works. Google it.

[Duckfeet]

Yean, I'd be real careful w/benzos, and taking ibogaine, well, it's a hallucenogenic, I'm pretty sure, and if I know *anything* about them, is that past a certain point, you don't really get to guide the tour anymore, and you *may* get off dope, or you may not...lots of pretty controversial stuff surrounds this drug, and me, benzos, again, I'd be read careful, them fuckers put a serious hurt on you, if you stop too abruptly....


Dude I dont know if youve searched it but the BEST thing you can use for benzo WD/s is neurontin. Ive used it, theres studies out there, it works. Google it.

[EleusisII]

I'm thinking Ibogaine. Order it online, do it at home.

I know it'd work well with my Subs, but do you think it'd help with the Benzo withdrawal? (see my other post about how I got hooked again)

I'm thinking BAAAD idea. For so many reasons. Your health and safety being one of them.

[blutuesday]

Dont fuck with Blue!!!!!!!!



Awwwww........<3

Some ppl just kinda come off that way in posts I guess. (well some Person) I noticed a pattern...I'm not trippin tho. I simply heard from a friend that it worked for her, and put the post up because I thought it was interesting. I had personally never heard of it before because prior to this detox I was out getting high and pawned my laptop every now and then, and also probably due to the fact that Iam a nurse, I had never heard of it because for the most part I am a very facts-based believer in standard modern medicine/proved sciences.

It really isnt all that serious! :)

Love yall, have a good day!

[Consumed.]

I'm thinking BAAAD idea. For so many reasons. Your health and safety being one of them.


Hell yeah its a stupid idea. Straight up, (or down) doesnt matter. i mean they use to use MDMA in therapy sessions to get people off of everything from drugs to every other fucking psychiatric disorder their was. People claimed it was a miracle drug. Yeah it worked for some shit. But we no now it aint something to use for those reasons. Ibogaine just happens to be legal and people are claiming it does everything, well its to make a profit. Just wait, what goes around comes around...