why codeine is so unpopular

[supravires]

in the beginning, sorry 4 my english, its really really poor, but I have some questions about popularity of codeine in USA, GB, and West European countries..
I observed that "codeine" forum has no permanently users, im aaking: WHY?
Reportedly you have better access to morphine, oxycodone, fentanyl, etc.. but codeine is perfect, not too strong, it makes mi happy (i know M, fentanyl, tramadol, codeine, heroine, makiwara ( poppy soup)), I had long addiction, but know I go down with doses very much...
and codeine is perfect, idont feel so stoned, but I can go to university, to work, meet my friends, and be happy, not stereotical junkie;)
ps. in Poland we have 2 OTC's (using by junkies) with codeine: Antidol 15 (15mg C + 500paracetamolum/pill/10pills) that we preparing by CWE, and Thiocodin (15mg C + 300mg sulfogwaiakolum/pill). many people choose codeine, maybe beacuse access is easier?
I heard, You Wolrd Junkies, that fory You its only toy, step for next drug.. or even dont ever tried?

ps2. one more time sorry form my engllish!!
http://www.aptekaslonik.pl/images/prod/2551/thiocodin.jpghttp://img9.doz.pl/image/preparaty_zdjecie/103984

[I-Nod]

I'd imagine the reason is because Codeine has a ceiling and most of our tolerances are past that. Also, since it's not OTC here in the US (which is a large part of our member-base) we tend to stray towards hydrocodone and oxycodone.

[underide]

yeah, it also has more negative side-effects like a lot more itchiness and pins-and-needles, etc. and some people of caucasian race are defficient in CYP2D which is the enzyme that transforms codeine into morphine in the liver

They say it's aproximately 10% of the white race that have inefficent levels of that enzyme so they can't even feel codeine at all - i.e even with ZERO opiate tolerance, codeine just doesn't work for those people

and like I-nod said - tolerance is probably the biggest factor why so many people are not so fond of it - because it doesn't satisfy the majority of this board's cravings i guess, because of the aforementioned ceiling effect

for those of us that like to IV (inject intravenously or into the vein) our opiates - you cannot IV codeine
well you can, but doing so is an extremely unpleasant experience and can even kill you, so that's another reason for you


but if you still enjoy them, then more power to you, man.
you're certainly better off to sticking to these rather than getting into more serious (and yet a lot more pleasant ;)) shit like heroin

[JimboGianto]

Ya I think everyone hit the nail on the head here, codeine just sucks in general, way too weak, I didn't even that there was a ceiling for it but then again I have done so little research on codeine that it doesn't surprise me. If it were available over the counter I think it would be MUCH more popular to be honest for a whole host of reasons I'm not even going to try to go into. I think the main reason for me is the fact that I need SO much codeine to get high, and the codeine that I come across (If I ever come across it at all, it's just not available, nobody wastes their time on it!) has so much frigging tylenol in it that I would be destroying my liver if I were to take it. At this point, the only thing codeine is good for is if I'm going through w/d's and desperate for SOMETHING and that is the ONLY thing available lol, otherwise it's CRAP!

[repeek]

It is my understanding that the prescribing of codeine in America is rare simply because a DR cannot detect abuse of morphine or heroin in codeine users.

Ever since the scheduling of narcotics codeine has become less prescribed. I doubt it is coincidence.

[OxyContinuously]

Codeine is unpopular for a variety of reasons.

1) it has a ceiling dose of around 400mg

2) it is a 2 hour gig, no matter how much you take

3) for the small amount of euphoria it induces, it's bothersome side effects such as pruritits and sometimes nausea outweigh the benefits

4) it is as addictive as morphine even though it is qualitatively much weaker, yet can produce a withdrawal syndrome just as nasty as morphine's.

5) sometimes it can depress respiration in any dose

6) compared to other opiates, codeine has a tendency to cause a nasty histamine reaction in some users

7) some people are allergic and go into anaphylactic shock

8) tolerance to codeine develops rather quickly

9) the associated erectile dysfunction can be worse for codeine than it is for much stronger opiates, paradoxically

10) it's more trouble than it's worth

[rockbottom]

eveybody is different--i really like the effects of codiene like u said happy and productive--but when u go to something stronger codiene it just doesn't work anymore----welcome from Poland--i could undersatnd u fine--keep posting as i love to learn about drug scene in different countries---Peace---

[EleusisII]

in Poland we have 2 OTC's (using by junkies) with codeine

Polish junkies are indeed a pathetic bunch...
What about the Polish car thieves? They steal alot of bikes? Do they hang out with Polish bankrobbers, or whoever it is, that empty the quarters out of phonebooths over there?




Seriously though, as corrupt as the Polish medical profession and Polish doctors are, isn't it easy to be hooked up with at least some morphine?
Oxycodone isn't available there, right?

[OxyContinuously]

Polish junkies are indeed a pathetic bunch...
What about the Polish car thieves? They steal alot of bikes? Do they hang out with Polish bankrobbers, or whoever it is, that empty the quarters out of phonebooths over there?




Seriously though, as corrupt as the Polish medical profession and Polish doctors are, isn't it easy to be hooked up with at least some morphine?
Oxycodone isn't available there, right?

Hahaha! ^^^ they have rings of theives that specifically empty payphones? wow poland is even worse than i thought!!

[Poppylvr]

Hi supravires
I don't like codiene because it does nothing for me. No high, no enjoyment.
Welcome!
I too would love to hear more about drug use in Poland.

[Narkotikon]

Because it's weak and sucks ass.

[longduckdong]

^^ Yeah +1

[nick]

Codeine sucks.....until I'm sick.Then it's worth a lot.

Plus,I can buy 600mgs of pretty much pure codeine for under $5.

[longduckdong]

Codeine sucks.....until I'm sick.Then it's worth a lot.

Plus,I can buy 600mgs of pretty much pure codeine for under $5.

How much does it take to feel anything? I once took like 210mgs at one time and felt absolutely nothing. (I think it was like 7 T3's).

Maybe thats why I never liked it.

[Narkotikon]

Codeine sucks.....until I'm sick.Then it's worth a lot.

Plus,I can buy 600mgs of pretty much pure codeine for under $5.

Does it work well in w/d? For some reason I always thought that people who live in countries with OTC codeine were lucky, because they'd never have to go through that bad of a w/d. But, then again, codeine is really weak. Is it even worth it to use in w/d from stronger opiates?

[nick]

How much does it take to feel anything? I once took like 210mgs at one time and felt absolutely nothing. (I think it was like 7 T3's).

Maybe thats why I never liked it.

I can take 300mgs and it will keep me well for at least 10 hours.I believe the problem here is folks are looking for a buzz with codeine and that's not going to happen,but it will keep you well.In fact in england,we have codeine maintenance.

[OxyContinuously]

I can take 300mgs and it will keep me well for at least 10 hours.I believe the problem here is folks are looking for a buzz with codeine and that's not going to happen,but it will keep you well.In fact in england,we have codeine maintenance.

Wow, nick that would drive me up a wall! by that i mean i would be damn glad that i wasn't sick, of course, but we know how that with any form of maintenance, getting a buzz (however slight) is a very big part of the whole thing...like for example that's the problem with subs for some people: they work very well to stop sickness, and for some they even help out depression, but as far as an opiate, they are pretty much totally lacking any kind of buzz and alot of us look forward to that buzz u know?

Is codeine maintenance common practice in England or is it more of something for folks who have not had very big habits with hard drugs, and maybe methadone would be too much?

or is it personal choice? like maybe a person could decide to use methadone to manage his addiction, or if he chooses, he could use codeine?

that's a cool fact, though, Nick--i never knew that about codeine although it did kind of make a comeback in the US and Canada as "CodeineContin" IOW, people realize that it is a decent painkiller whether or not it gets one "high."

[upstate_007]

For me.......codeine is awesome for toothaches as long as my tolerance is not too jacked. Otherwise, it's only somewhat useful when sick.

[underide]

We have some folks here (mostly older junkies) on DF118's (dihydrocodeine)
As far as i know they are 1.5 to 2 times stronger than codeine and if i'm not mistaken they have no ceiling effect (as well as slightly less side-effects than codeine)

I've tried them a few times over the years, way back before going on 'done, and i remember doing about 8 or 10 of them the last time (i was at the peak of my heroin use at the time, just before going on MMT) and i remember they did fuck all
Granted i probably shot up H twice that day already (can't remember exactly though - was about 6 years ago) so that was probably made the dyhydrocodeine and even that fair dose almost ineffective for me - i.e a nice dose of heroin/morphine occupying my receptors so i could feel fuck all of those DF118's

and still, i was actually hoping to get on dihydrocodeine maintainence here, since you only have to see your doc once in two weeks at first for a few month and then you get monthly scripts of them, from what i hear.
Which is WAY better deal than 'done clinic routine, obviously

I did ask around the docs at my clinic - you basically have to be on 'done for a fair bit of time before you can get transferred to a GP and get on Dihydrocodeine maintainence - much depending on whether the GP himself would agree to prescribe them for maintenance
I think you also have to either be on, or at least required to drop your methadone to about 40mgs before transferring to dihydrocodeine

I still see them on the streets here once in a blue moon- mostly older junkies either selling them or trying to swap them for heroin
They go for 1-2 euro a pop here, just like 10mg's of valium

[EleusisII]

Oddly enough, and I know this shouldn't be possible with my habit, but I can still feel, and get a nice glow from 2-300 mgs codeine.
And it's a godsend for WDs!

[OxyContinuously]

For me.......codeine is awesome for toothaches as long as my tolerance is not too jacked. Otherwise, it's only somewhat useful when sick.

u know something, upstate? i never ever tried codeine to help me "not be sick"

shit, i always thought it would do nothing for me, considering i was sick off of heroin...

but Nick was talking about 300mgs keeping him well for 10hrs, so i am starting to look at codeine differently...also u saw the part where he said it's used in maintenance in England? that's pretty cool...

i mean veryone and their mother has a T3 or T4 script...codeines are everywhere and practically given away...

shit, maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea to stash like 40 or so T3's??

i am going to do just that...

and also, what i would really love to get on stand-by is maybe 50 of those Methadose 10mg white instant release meth tablets....shit, a half gram of pure methadone would save me for up to a week, maybe a bit more!!! i always find myself in the situation where i finish what i have,, then i have no back-up plan and i fuckin HATE being sick....that's exactly what i gotta do: i must either get those meth tabs,, or fuck it, i'll buy a couple of my boy's take-homes...i mean it will be liquid, but he's on 120mg a day, so if i buy 2 and just keep them in the fridge, i know i'll be damn glad i have them ona "rainy day"

[upstate_007]

OXy......... for the price of methadone (pills, takehomes, or whatever) it is a lifesaver. My problem, I always use up the methadone pills I save up while getting fucked up just to "add to it". So when I run out, I am out of everything and back at square zero. I am terrible at stockpiling anything. If I know it's there, I gotta do it till its all gone.

[Chipper]

Something else to consider, too:

July 8, 2008
Australian researchers have found a dangerous new side-effect from using too much Codeine.
Approved usage of the opiate has been for severe cough, diarrhea, mild pain, and irritable bowel syndrome.
However, Australian researchers have discovered that Codeine can cause hearing impairment.
Studies have found the problem doesn't happen to everyone, but when it strikes, it's swift and permanent.
Taking even the recommended dose for one or four years can lead to total deafness.

[ZodiacKiller]

^^What? Speak up, what was that? Huh?


ZK

[Seedy]

I live in a country with OTC codiene and can honestly say I haven't had to resort to it for years. Back in the day I got a good buzz on it, that's what lead me to pods & seeds but since I've been doing them daily codiene's pretty useless. I used to get a nice glow off anything above 200mgs but these days there's no glow and it takes less & less to give me that awful itch. And it doesn't get me fully well in withdrawals - takes the edge off but that's it.

[Indy]

There are a lot of myths about codeine. First of all, it ISN'T just a prodrug. MOST of it's action is by metabolism to morphine, but not all, so you can take more than the 400 mg "ceiling" to get more effects, its just a lot less efficient. Also the time it takes to metabolize that 400 mg is less than the half life, so if you keep taking more every hour you can keep metabolizing more into morphine.

As for the people who can't metabolize it into morphine, it still has SOME effect, just, again, very weak on its.

[ndoftaworld]

ONLY time I've ever had codiene was when rx'd by a dentist (T3's), helped the pain (wonder why it helps oral pain so much??) but useless for any real pain or enjoyment to me.

If it was OTC, I might try it w/ potentiators, but not so...

As for histamine/allergic reactions... it's strange that I get it from Morphine (not uncommon since it's not synthesized), and methadone - which is completely man made.

Oxy, codiene, fent, and pretty much all other opies I'm fine w/. Aside from the occasional itchies (especially my nose :D )

As said, if possible: Shoot for morphine, tho I don't know how rare or unpopular it is in Poland. Maybe u'll find a naive (or compassionate) doc that will script it?

Nd

[supravires]

I know, I know, H, M or F is more better than C, but its good for me, because my level of addictedness is not so dangerous... I think codeine gives me this part of opiats action, that I need... its soft and nice:{

[robojunkie]

Codeine sucks because methyl groups belong on amphetamines and opionitrogens, never oxygens unless its etorphine!

End of story...

Oh yeah, when I was in Germany many years ago we used to get DHC's (dihydrocodeine obviously) and this shit was better than regular codeine. The best use of codeine is to get some boron tribromide, make morphine (fuck you methyl bitch!), and promptly acetylate to diamorphine. Good clean white powder, with a nice ether taste to the hit from the precipitation! Yummy!

[Narkotikon]

Codeine sucks because methyl groups belong on amphetamines and opionitrogens, never oxygens unless its etorphine!

End of story...

Oh yeah, when I was in Germany many years ago we used to get DHC's (dihydrocodeine obviously) and this shit was better than regular codeine. The best use of codeine is to get some boron tribromide, make morphine (fuck you methyl bitch!), and promptly acetylate to diamorphine. Good clean white powder, with a nice ether taste to the hit from the precipitation! Yummy!

I remember reading a post by Tui a long time ago, where she said that she regularly would make her H. She said something like they sell morphine where she was with the anhydrous, and you had to cook it up yourself or something like that. She also was talking about watching someone make H out of codeine. I thought that was interesting.

How much codeine would it take to get a dose of H? Isn't the yield of H after you convert it from morphine like 10% or something. Like it takes 10 kilos of morphine to make 1 kilo of H or something? I don't know for sure. I thought I read that though. I've never done this.

[SynthMorph]

I remember reading a post by Tui a long time ago, where she said that she regularly would make her H. She said something like they sell morphine where she was with the anhydrous, and you had to cook it up yourself or something like that. She also was talking about watching someone make H out of codeine. I thought that was interesting.

How much codeine would it take to get a dose of H? Isn't the yield of H after you convert it from morphine like 10% or something. Like it takes 10 kilos of morphine to make 1 kilo of H or something? I don't know for sure. I thought I read that though. I've never done this.

You got some things mixed up. It takes about 10 kilos of opium to make a kilo of H. With the best yields you could turn a gram of codeine into about a gram of morphine and then a gram of heroin. But more realistically is anywhere from 40-80% yields.

[Narkotikon]

You got some things mixed up. It takes about 10 kilos of opium to make a kilo of H. With the best yields you could turn a gram of codeine into about a gram of morphine and then a gram of heroin. But more realistically is anywhere from 40-80% yields.

That's right. I was thinking about the opium. My bad. Thanks for the clarification.

[alowishus]

Because it's a 1000000 times easier to get pops.











Or any other drug that's not codeine.

[robojunkie]

From the Journal of Opiochemistry...

30/500 (Tylenol 3's) x 20 = 600 mg codeine phosphate, CWE'd, then subsequently basified with bicarb, extracted into ether x 3 to give around 400 mg codeine base. Verified free of APAP. Added to methylene chloride, then this may have been added to methylene chloride and boron tribromide (about 6 equivalents) at 0 C. After stirring 30 minutes brought to pH 9 with ammonium hydroxide. Morphine base precipitated out, approximately 250 mg (about 60-65% yield for reaction) as off white sticky powder, rinsed with cold water and dried with ethanol and ether.

Morphine base added to 10 eq (this is excessive) acetic anhydride and 1.5 eq sodium acetate (buffer and catalyst) and heated to 100 C for about 3 hours. 40 eq water added with stirring at room temp and three drops methylene chloride or chloroform added with stirring to remove red oil impurities. Then aqueous solution basified with bicarb and extracted into ether. Ether evap'd and about 150 mg diacetylmorphine base recovered. Equimolar amount of ethanolic HCl may have been added to ethanolic solution of diaM base and then soluble diamorphine HCl may have been precip'd with the addition of ether and hexanes (titrated carefully to ensure precipitation complete without precipitating impurities). Approximately 125 to 150 mg diamorphine HCl may have been recovered as a an amorphous fluffy white powder. Confirmed diamorphine of above 99% purity.

BioAssay: Fucking A yeah motherfuckers, this is the real shiiiiitttteeeeee!!! How's that for professional peer reviewed literature???

Oh yeah, the methodology used by Tui's people down under (or next to it...the land of tomorrow) is the anhydrous pyridinium hydrochloride aryl methyl ether cleavage under high pressure technique. They take pyridine (awful smell, toxic) and conc HCl, add the codeine and place in a air tight pipe and heated to 200 C. This recipe scares me as I believe in the demethylation of codeine one is producing N-methyl pyridinium chloride, which is a quarternary pyridine salt, something which the infamous MPTP is as well, at least the toxic metabolate MPP+. The only difference NMPC and MPP+ is the presence of the para phenyl ring. Not sure how important this is to the neurotoxicity, but I wouldn't want to find out the hard way. I know its the methylpyridinium part of MPP+ that is responsible for the dopaminergic neuron death.

[alowishus]

From the Journal of Opiochemistry...

30/500 (Tylenol 3's) x 20 = 600 mg codeine phosphate, CWE'd, then subsequently basified with bicarb, extracted into ether x 3 to give around 400 mg codeine base. Verified free of APAP. Added to methylene chloride, then this may have been added to methylene chloride and boron tribromide (about 6 equivalents) at 0 C. After stirring 30 minutes brought to pH 9 with ammonium hydroxide. Morphine base precipitated out, approximately 250 mg (about 60-65% yield for reaction) as off white sticky powder, rinsed with cold water and dried with ethanol and ether.

Morphine base added to 10 eq (this is excessive) acetic anhydride and 1.5 eq sodium acetate (buffer and catalyst) and heated to 100 C for about 3 hours. 40 eq water added with stirring at room temp and three drops methylene chloride or chloroform added with stirring to remove red oil impurities. Then aqueous solution basified with bicarb and extracted into ether. Ether evap'd and about 150 mg diacetylmorphine base recovered. Equimolar amount of ethanolic HCl may have been added to ethanolic solution of diaM base and then soluble diamorphine HCl may have been precip'd with the addition of ether and hexanes (titrated carefully to ensure precipitation complete without precipitating impurities). Approximately 125 to 150 mg diamorphine HCl may have been recovered as a an amorphous fluffy white powder. Confirmed diamorphine of above 99% purity.

BioAssay: Fucking A yeah motherfuckers, this is the real shiiiiitttteeeeee!!! How's that for professional peer reviewed literature???

Oh yeah, the methodology used by Tui's people down under (or next to it...the land of tomorrow) is the anhydrous pyridinium hydrochloride aryl methyl ether cleavage under high pressure technique. They take pyridine (awful smell, toxic) and conc HCl, add the codeine and place in a air tight pipe and heated to 200 C. This recipe scares me as I believe in the demethylation of codeine one is producing N-methyl pyridinium chloride, which is a quarternary pyridine salt, something which the infamous MPTP is as well, at least the toxic metabolate MPP+. The only difference NMPC and MPP+ is the presence of the para phenyl ring. Not sure how important this is to the neurotoxicity, but I wouldn't want to find out the hard way. I know its the methylpyridinium part of MPP+ that is responsible for the dopaminergic neuron death.

Well I'm free, or this guy called swim......

[robojunkie]

Well I'm free, or this guy called swim......

I didn't say I was the author, shit though I guess I forgot the citation, they'll be bringing me up on ethics violations now!!!

[alowishus]

I didn't say I was the author, shit though I guess I forgot the citation, they'll be bringing me up on ethics violations now!!!


Oh I'm sorry I didn't tell......I',m really for the RIAA and you'tre in for a hell of a battle on that post.;)

[Suboxstitute]

I know, I know, H, M or F is more better than C, but its good for me, because my level of addictedness is not so dangerous... I think codeine gives me this part of opiats action, that I need... its soft and nice:{


I just wanted to say (a) I used to like codeine, and it got me high (like decades ago) and (b) do NOT feel you should apologize for your English. You speak better English than I will EVER speak Polish. Most Americans can only speak one language - maybe TWO, and many Americans do not even speak decent ENGLISH. Or write it.

My daughter is engaged to a Czech guy and he speaks 10 languages, six of them extremely well, including English which he taught himself while in Australia. So he speaks English with a combination Czech and Australian accent. We can understand him perfectly, and he understands us, even the slang and idioms,,, amazing to me.

So congratulatios for speakig English at ALL. Much credit to you!

Sue

[clinton]

it has a ceiling and its weak



also codiene od is one of the more terrible opiate deaths that one can endure

[jacky]

it depends on who you are.

possibly hinging on the efficacy of metabolic/catabolic conversion controlled by enzymes.

some of us get a good kick out of codeine.
I can say it probably effects me about 1/3- 1/2 the potency of morphine. but, if its morphine sulfate, forget it, morphine sulfate to me is about as strong as codeine...at least in my body.

some people cannot convert codeine to morphine endogenously very well, some people might be allergic to it for this reason possibly?

I know that I can use codeine effeciently to ween down from heroin or morphine, and for my caffeine tolerating body, the canadian over the counter codeine is a friggin blessing when I do get it. its been awhile, because I was getting hassled finally by US customs.

I wouldnt say that codeine is unpopular, for many pill poppers and junkies it works OK, I would just say that it is unpopular for come chronic pain sufferers, and hard ass junkies...or of course the people that lack the right body chemistry.

it does make me itch a bit more than morphine.

I know a DR that was horrified to see terminal low income patients being given nothing but codeine at the end of their lives....for that purpose, killing pain for the chronic or terminal, I cant say that codeine is going to be humane.

it is possible that mixing morphine and codeine might do something beneficial for some people? it seems to work well enough in opium.

I read books by a guy name Jonathan OTT, who is a very knowledgable and eccentric ethnobotanist, and he has taken codeine for years in Mexico, he actually has made statements preferring codeine to morphine, and this guy is no naive user....you might say that some of the greatest books known to man about psychoactives were written under the influence of codeine.
perhaps its part of his prolific writing nature, the enforcing subtlety of a compound that can enhance focus, and kill the pain of creating.

one person I know is allergic to codeine...he parents gave him some with cough syrup, and he spent the day watching huge spiderwebs falling from the sky and covering everything.....then the spiders started dropping as well...so in at least some people, codeine might present a hallucinogenic problem!!

for some people, its a useless compound it seems, but I also know many people that lacked the ability to use a substance less potent than heroin, for those people, they should probably quit opiates alltogether.

I could potentially use codeine for long periods of time, and have. I find a little dxm goes a long way to decrease tolerance. I know that for me, if I wouldve lived in Canada instead of the USA, I probably couldve gotten out of some of my heroin troubles by kicking with codeine and substituting.

for a time I was getting OTC codeine, which most people dont know was a common right till the end of the 80's hit.
a pharmacist can write a legal otc script for codeine, as long as they get a signature, and only dispense once a month.
I used to go in every month to a few places.
then the DEA conned big chain pharmacys to not honor this right.
see, back in the day the people that ran the country decided that it was better that low income people could have access to something as important as codeine cough syrup. so they made this loophole, AND IT HAS NEVER BEEN CHANGED, rather the industrys decided to gut our fucking human rights instead. that way no laws have to be upturned.
now, I know that there are a few old pharmacists that will still dispense, but we are talking in the country boys, and these old cats are stupid, some just defy the feds anyway.

as a substance that is legal OTC in most civilized countrys in the world, I am let down that in the USA we are loosing our rights to people that would rather push tramadol than an organic pain reliever like codeine.
shit, even small amounts of morphine are over the counter in the UK, or at least england, with a preperation of an anti diarrheal that contains all of about 4-5 milligrams of morphine.

the only OTC codeine and morphine you are going to get in the states is the form of poppy seeds.

[nick]

Jacky bro,in England one can get 20mgs of M OTC.It's pretty cost prohibitive though,comes in at about $10 per 20mgs.Codeine at $5 for 600mgs is a far better deal.

[ndoftaworld]

Just read on wikipedia (not definitive, but useful sometimes) that taking grapefruit juice to potentiate codiene inhibits it from being made into nocodiene, and thus more morphine in the system... something to consider.

I've been chugging WGFJ to potientiate my perc 5's (which were refilled btw, no patches until I meet the doc on the 5th :( ) but at least i got SOME opies for now.

Nd

[underide]

Jacky bro,in England one can get 20mgs of M OTC.It's pretty cost prohibitive though,comes in at about $10 per 20mgs.Codeine at $5 for 600mgs is a far better deal.

Pretty cost prohibitive is right!

there's OTC codeine over here as well, and you can still find that Syndol prep here in some chemists - (15mgs codeine + 300 mg APAP)
But whether you buy Syndol here or the 8mg codeine+ 500 (or something) APAP that comes in the form of Solpadeine, you are going to PAY for that (just like for all the rest here i suppose)

Last time i visited a pharmacy, i think it was something like almost 8-10 euro for a pack of 20 Solapdeine (with 8mg codeine)

How long is that going to hold you?
Heroin seems almost just as 'cheap' here, so most junkies here just don't bother with codeine, but add 5 uero to that tenner and go score a bag of brown, which at least they can feel (for a few hours or so anyway)

[jacky]

thanks for that info nick...

cost prohibitive isnt a problem with me!my point is not that drugs be made avialable for abuse purposes in general (though I think it would be an outstanding policy), but that opiates are avialable without a prescription for people in general

I think that the fact that the material is available OTC is great, despite the high price. I am just happy that such a great natural product is allowed to be sold in some form at least. and that a person suffering some illness has a choice in the matter.

it suggests to me that the government was really considering the rights of indivuduals over the actions of the masses...

I know some peoples body chemistry is different, and they need more and more opiates to stay well, or they just have a natural tolerance for them, but I know people including myself that can be happy with regular, though low doses of opiates.

one of my best experiences on opioids ever was being able to stash away darvon when I was in jail. I saved it till a saturday evening, and consumed just after eating. only 6 darvocet and I was in heaven, itching, singing, laughing, I was the jailhouse entertainment for the night. outside of jail, darvon is nothing to write home about.....but inside, and a month time served, that 6 darvocet made me feel great for over 24 hours.

the law regarding codeine in the USA was decided upon because of how many people used to die from chronic bronchial conditions in the early 1900's.
they felt that access to codeine was more important that trying to control it ,in agreed upon formula'
s.....codeine isnt legal in pure form otc, but legal only in such a formulation of so many parts per fluid ounce of cough syrup.
I am not choosy....and as peoples reactions vary, neither were my freinds who introduced me to the practise.
it took balls as a youngster to walk in and order up a nice big brown bottle of goo....but I did it every month for an older junky freind of mine for awhile as well.
then the small pharmacys starting closing down, and the big chain stores started their closing down of the avialability...
now people argue with me and tell me that I am crazy for suggesting such a thing.

[ndoftaworld]

...I know some peoples body chemistry is different, and they need more and more opiates to stay well, or they just have a natural tolerance for them, but I know people including myself that can be happy with regular, though low doses of opiates...

It's been awhile since I've taken codiene (T3's), from my dentist after a root canal, and after enough of them, I did get a slight buzz... but now, after having been on EVERY legal opiate/opioid available either in the hospital or scripted, I *doubt* it will have much effect on me.

But I am one of those 'odd types' in regards to tolerance, w/d's, etc. I can still get the itchies and a buzz off of 15mg oxy, TG, cause perc 5's are all I'm scripted currently :( On the other hand, I jumped from NO opies in the psych ward to 25mcg/hr fent patches, no problem. Got a hold of a couple of 800mcg Actiq's... again a nice warm buzz, but no problems with it being too much, and I'd been off of fent (@ least, possibly everything) for 2-3 weeks. When they were gone... no w/d's aside from the mental craving :o

And then there's 'done... scripted 20mg a day, I took 40 and ended up completely unresponsive, DEAD until revived. Next dose was just 10mg, not AS bad reaction, but boom! right back in the hospital.

Fent, oxy, and any other synthetic/semi-synth opies I'm fine with, any opies @ all really I can handle HUGE doses, and feel fine after a binge (besides the pain that's ALWAYS there), except for 'done, and morphine gives me a rash @ the injection site, no respiratory probs. with it.

I just don't understand it... There have been MANY times in just the past few months that I should have been climbing the walls, hitting up every ER, twitching, crying, etc. because of complete detox... and narcan is the only thing that gives me w/d's...?

I know I have a tolerance, but even using 1 or 2 oxy's makes me feel 'good'. Not high, but that hint of euphoria is definitely there...

Donno, I guess I'm just one of those 'strange' people. I have the genetics for addiction, and 'nurture' certainly has added to 'nature' but I still feel if it weren't for pain, I could give up opies for good if needed. But why the hell would I want to do that? ;)

Nd

[elsaLvsangels]

When I went down to 30 or 25 mls of methadone and I was also getting a script for pure codeine:120mg/3x/day, I could miss my methadone for around 1-2 days and I had absolutely ZERO withdrawl effects, and I'm probably the BIGGEST whinner when it comes to feeling any kind of withdrawing!!! It's really great if your getting dopesick till you can get the good stuff!!!!:)

[Hoss]

When I went down to 30 or 25 mls of methadone and I was also getting a script for pure codeine:120mg/3x/day, I could miss my methadone for around 1-2 days and I had absolutely ZERO withdrawl effects, and I'm probably the BIGGEST whinner when it comes to feeling any kind of withdrawing!!! It's really great if your getting dopesick till you can get the good stuff!!!!:)

So you were taking Codeine & Methadone? I'm assuming you could skip 1-2 days of Methadone due to its half life. WD's? Oh yeah - they're there, just waitin' for ya.

Just a lil' on/off-topic personal diddle : I remember kicking Methadone cold turkey; took my last dose on a Tuesday - awoke sick as fuck Friday morning. No joke; sucked major ass ball. Talk about a very fucking mentally remote, ass bindle, spindle bitch summer. Not advised.

I apologize for derailing on this one - can't help it with this cheap wine pumping through my veins.

[blutuesday]

Codeine is worthless for me. THE only time I would do codeine is when it is mixed with cough syrup. Or syrup with that plus vikes/perc 10s (many.)

[Duckfeet]

I remember sitting on a cheap hotel balcony, in Mango Creek, Belize, eating Over-The-Counter codeine, washed down w/OTC paregoric and cheap rum, and planning on heading over to Puerto Cortez, Honduras by motorized canoe, from there to Nicaragua, where they were supposedly hiring spanish speaking war vets as mercenaries...but the days turned into weeks, and I was still sitting on that balcony, dreaming of big adventures ahead...when I ran out of codeine and paregoric both, and was broke, and a little sick, and drifted back to Belize City, and on the way, kicking booze too, had my first--and only--seizure, and immediately was convinced I was going to be like the great novelist Dostoevsky...who was also epileptic...

But when I finally scrounged my way back to the V.A. hospital in Miami, they said, nah, you just were drinking too much...which pissed me off, as I was all ready to be tragic and literary, and nobody wants to be branded just a drunk...

Anyway, typically, I went way off topic haha....

[nick]

I remember sitting on a cheap hotel balcony, in Mango Creek, Belize, eating Over-The-Counter codeine, washed down w/OTC paregoric and cheap rum, and planning on heading over to Puerto Cortez, Honduras by motorized canoe, from there to Nicaragua, where they were supposedly hiring spanish speaking war vets as mercenaries...but the days turned into weeks, and I was still sitting on that balcony, dreaming of big adventures ahead...when I ran out of codeine and paregoric both, and was broke, and a little sick, and drifted back to Belize City, and on the way, kicking booze too, had my first--and only--seizure, and immediately was convinced I was going to be like the great novelist Dostoevsky...who was also epileptic...

But when I finally scrounged my way back to the V.A. hospital in Miami, they said, nah, you just were drinking too much...which pissed me off, as I was all ready to be tragic and literary, and nobody wants to be branded just a drunk...

Anyway, typically, I went way off topic haha....

I don't know bro,I'll go with BUk on this.Better to be a drunk than a writer,especially a tragic writer.

[ndoftaworld]

I don't know bro,I'll go with BUk on this.Better to be a drunk than a writer,especially a tragic writer.

Funny (or sad?) that most GOOD literary geniuses were drunks, or addicts, or just plain mentally unstable... but I guess we can't keep the imaginations we had as kids, so we have to do SOMETHING to create a whole new world, life, etc. in our minds first... then put it into words <----- That's the hard part for me. I've wrote short-stories and almost a complete NOVEL for fun or especially a thesis I had. I'd spend too much time worrying about how one paragraph was worded, and because of that I'd lose the 'flow' that I had for the story :( Being intoxicated... I guess u could hammer out a rough draft, then do spell-check and all that other BS later on.

Nd

[dirtdog]

well last time i drank codeine, i drove to outback steakhouse and applied for a job and failed the math test. I couldnt figure out the damned tax with half an eye.

[bigfootlives]

also codiene od is one of the more terrible opiate deaths that one can endure

LOL I just can't imagine anyone ODing on codiene, but I'm sure it's happened lots before

[underide]

LOL I just can't imagine anyone ODing on codiene, but I'm sure it's happened lots before

It doesn't have to be an OD

Firstly, i think i've either read or heard somewhere that some small percentage people are very allergic to codeine, for some unexplained (as of yet ) reason - and when they say allergic, they mean proper anaphylactic shock kinda allergy (could be wrong here, just what i remember)


Secondly - if someone is either ignorant or dumb enough to IV a sufficient dose of codeine, you could either suffer some EXTREMELY upleasent/painful sideffects or even drop dead on the spot
And it has happened

You DO NOT inject Codeine intravenously
It could be your last injection
IV codeine can cause rapid pulmonary odema and from what i know an allergic reaction that can cause the closing of the airways (don't quote me on the closing of the airways part though - i might be wrong here, but i thought i read/heard something in the nature)

But the main point - intravenous codeine can be deadly, even at low doses, AFAIK

You CAN inject codeine intramuscularly and subcutaneously though, and they still have ampoules in some hospitals in Eastern Europe, AFAIK, and probably over here too
But like i say - those ampoules are for IM, SC - NOT IV

[HandMeSomeOpiates]

I know, I know, H, M or F is more better than C, but its good for me, because my level of addictedness is not so dangerous... I think codeine gives me this part of opiats action, that I need... its soft and nice:{
Then I'd stay with codeine man. Don't EVER move up the latter. Because once you do start moving up the latter, it's a lonnnggg fall down. Most of us tend not to look down though ;)

[litetite420]

i dont mind codeine like lortabs if i have like 100 of them hehe and 10mg ones

[digby]

If one has no tolerance, codeine can be both effective and pleasant, but the secret for me was to combine it with Fioricet. Fioricet also makes Vicodin more effective as well as euphoric IMO. It was the first opiate I was ever prescribed, and was finally taking two #4's every four hours for cluster headaches. It worked great for that, as well as for having dental work done. I just took a pill or two and didn't need to get a local for cavity work. Just a smile and let 'em drill.

Codeine does screw with most people's night vision though, and I could hardly drive a vehicle at night.

And withdrawals.....codeine gave me the worst withdrawals I have ever had! Of course, this was before I knew about tapering and did it cold turkey. I had such bad projectile vomiting that it tore my esophagus apart and you don't know what terror is until you see yourself vomiting up almost a quart of bright red blood! Quick trip to the hospital for emergency surgery for that one - all from that weak-ass codeine.

[pinn3d]

I would love it if Codeine were available OTC here w/out tylenol.....

I would use it to supplement my pod intake, and maybe it would motivate me to keep my tolerance down so that I wouldn't be buying other pills off the street....

because in the early days i LOVED codeine... we used to drive into Canada when we were in highschool and get those 222's and do CWE and make lemonade out of it...

if i got some codeine now it would be nostalgic.... yeah i'm jealous of the countries w/ OTC codeine....

[I-Nod]

I just took a pill or two and didn't need to get a local for cavity work. Just a smile and let 'em drill.

Holy hell, you're effin' crazy!! :eek:

I had a dentist give me a local the wrong way once (hard to explain, but it was an upper front tooth and he pushed the needle in too far... med's went up into my sinus cavity and ran down the back of my throat, I could taste it and feel it running). Anyways, it didn't numb shit, needless to say. He started drilling and kept hitting a nerve... wanted to deck his ass, but just gritted my teeth and went on with it. Never again! :mad:

[hydro chris]

apap/codeine was 1 of my frsts dOC's was able to get a nice buzz of like three, t3's
tolerance seems to go up rather quick like said.
i can create a habit pretty quickly.
when you really start popping them,your also taking in alot of apap.
they help will w/d's for now.

[ndoftaworld]

GOD! I'd give a few MORE teeth for even some codiene right now!! Physical is pretty much passed, cept for fucking pain of course, but the CRAVING is making me climb walls!

PM appt. 11am TOMORROW! WISH ME LUCK PLZ!!

L8er and nite all,

Nd

[scikid]

do NOT feel you should apologize for your English. You speak better English than I will EVER speak Polish. Most Americans can only speak one language - maybe TWO, and many Americans do not even speak decent ENGLISH. Or write it.

So congratulatios for speakig English at ALL. Much credit to you!

Sue

What I wanted to say.... I can only speak a little Spanish and very very limited French and Italian (and I'm to embarrassed to try to speak any other language often times).. so don't feel bad.

I remember getting ripped on Codeine, it was one of the first opiates I ever tried (I think I tried Hydrocodone first)

[Narkotikon]

I know that certain antidepressants inhibits the CYP enzyme responsible for codeine's metabolism into morphine, which is primarily why it works. For instance, you can not take codeine while on Prozac and have it work. Just isn't going to happen.

[Kristy85]

in the beginning, sorry 4 my english, its really really poor, but I have some questions about popularity of codeine in USA, GB, and West European countries..
I observed that "codeine" forum has no permanently users, im aaking: WHY?
Reportedly you have better access to morphine, oxycodone, fentanyl, etc.. but codeine is perfect, not too strong, it makes mi happy (i know M, fentanyl, tramadol, codeine, heroine, makiwara ( poppy soup)), I had long addiction, but know I go down with doses very much...
and codeine is perfect, idont feel so stoned, but I can go to university, to work, meet my friends, and be happy, not stereotical junkie;)
ps. in Poland we have 2 OTC's (using by junkies) with codeine: Antidol 15 (15mg C + 500paracetamolum/pill/10pills) that we preparing by CWE, and Thiocodin (15mg C + 300mg sulfogwaiakolum/pill). many people choose codeine, maybe beacuse access is easier?
I heard, You Wolrd Junkies, that fory You its only toy, step for next drug.. or even dont ever tried?

ps2. one more time sorry form my engllish!!
http://www.aptekaslonik.pl/images/prod/2551/thiocodin.jpghttp://img9.doz.pl/image/preparaty_zdjecie/103984

If ONLY I could get high off Codeine :(

We call it Co-Codamol over here in the UK (codeine and paracetamol) which comes in 8/500 (OTC), 15/500 and 30/500 both of which you need a perscription for.
I have a bunch of the 30/500 (that's 30mg codeine and 500 paracetamol) which my grandma gave my mum for her back pain. I often pinch a few here and there when I'm not feeling so good but they hardly do anything......... I have to take a fuckin shit load for em to work and I ain't keen on all that paracetamol.

[covv799ss]

i think most of the people on here started out with something like hydrocodone or oxycodone, and moved up from there. if you've been doing those regularly codeine usually won't cut it for you. personally i never even came across codeine until i had started taking oxies (to replace hydros!), and even when i drank 2 oz of lean I didn't feel anything (I have no idea if that is a lot of codeine or not, but it was half the bottle. in any case compared to oxies or even vicodin it probably didn't equal that much). so i have never gotten a codeine high. if i took some now, though, i'm guessing it would kick my ass.