Should i just get on 'done?

[Seedy]

As many of you fine folk must know I've been trying to get on suboxone for the last... 6 months now, I think. I finally got on it 2 weeks ago which is great but what they didn't tell me is that the suboxone programme here is run the same as the methadone programme, ie I have to pick up my dose every day, arrange in advance when i want to travel, take regular drug tests, etc. All the things that suboxone patients shouldn't have to deal with. On top of that it's costing me $80 a week for 4mg a day. It will probably come down to about $60 when I can finally dose at a pharmacy (I was very naughty and tried to take my pills away with me and got caught on the last day I was to be dosing at the clinic).

My main reason to get on suboxone was to sort out my financial situation so I'm not a whole lot better off in that respect but i have been feeling pretty good on suboxone - feeling myself again. The problem is all this bullshit I have to put up with is really getting me down. Maybe the suboxone honeymoon period is over, I'm sure craving to get high again but I can't tell if it's just a response to dealing with all the shit at the clinic.

I could just get on methadone, it would be completely free, so I'd be less resentful of following the archaic protocol of the government run clinic, it would probably control my cravings better, I could get high on it... but there lies the problem, I know myself pretty well, and have always thought getting on methadone would just get me deeeper in the shit. I'm a druggy, I have a constant urge to be high. They (the clinic that is) are trying to sort that out with psychotherapy, which is pretty interesting - I do think I have a more posative outlook from it, but fuck it I still wanna get high.

The problem is I still can't see myself ever getting off opiates. I'd like to but it just doesn't seem realistic at this point. Maybe I should just get on methadone and hope that the clinic's policies on suboxone change, or the patent runs out and it gets cheaper, I really don't know. This has been a really shitty year for me and I thought getting on subs was going to get me out of this misery but I just can't handle the way this programme works, it's driving me fucking crazy!

[bored in sofl]

I loved subs when I first went on them but now I absolutly hate them. Ever since I quit subs I sleep for shit. This is going on over 2 years now. I went through withdrawls before subs and could sleep fine within a few days but now I'm fucking lunny tunes from lack of sleep. I'm not saying that it was the subs fault but It might just might have had a lil to do with it

[Duckfeet]

That's always a hard one to answer...I've always hated methadone, but drug cravings were to strong for me to handle on subs...plus when I finally got down to 1/2g final sub, and "jumped" by day three I started kicking really bad, and couldn't take it...so I got back on methadone...

And floundered around a year or so, hating it, back to heroin, back to methadone...but anyway, about six months ago I knew I couldn't go on, so I decided to get on methadone--free for me too--get my life in order, then do a slow detox, and see if that worked, rather than keep getting on methadone, hating it, getting street drugs, back and forth...I just can't kick, either one....


So this time, so far, pretty good. Was at 100 mg, then dropped down 10mg a week to fifty, then 4mg a week to 30, then 3mg a week to nine, and tomorrow 2mg a week, down to jump....Some weeks are tougher than others, no week was horrible, no day was unbearable..and the minor chills and general bitchiness were more than compensated by the fact I wasn't horribly constipated anymore...but I totally disconnected myself from all past contacts and connections, throwing away phone numbers, changing mine, daily AA, monthly vets methadone groupo...all that...I knew I had to get life in order, couldn't just hope it would get better if I quit dope...that has never worked...hell, it gets *worse*....

Worked this far, tomorrow we'll see....after jump is when it counts, all this is just prelude...

[bored in sofl]

whoops sorry I thought this was a sub thread. I stay away from done. If I was a full blown junky doing risky life threating shit daily I'd go on done

[Seedy]

I loved subs when I first went on them but now I absolutly hate them. Ever since I quit subs I sleep for shit. This is going on over 2 years now. I went through withdrawls before subs and could sleep fine within a few days but now I'm fucking lunny tunes from lack of sleep. I'm not saying that it was the subs fault but It might just might have had a lil to do with it

^^ That's the thing, subs are relatively new to the longterm effects arent fully known. Fuck, I've been an insomniac on&off since I was a teenager I wouldn't wanna risk making it worse in the future. Then again opiate addiction in general will probably do that.

[bored in sofl]

I get panic attacks where I want to put my head threw a wall. It's gotten better since I'm back in the gym. I've also kind of learned how to calm myself down by taking deep breaths kind of like meditateing. I don't want to get hooked on benzo's so I just use them for recreation

[Seedy]

That's always a hard one to answer...I've always hated methadone, but drug cravings were to strong for me to handle on subs...plus when I finally got down to 1/2g final sub, and "jumped" by day three I started kicking really bad, and couldn't take it...so I got back on methadone...

And floundered around a year or so, hating it, back to heroin, back to methadone...but anyway, about six months ago I knew I couldn't go on, so I decided to get on methadone--free for me too--get my life in order, then do a slow detox, and see if that worked, rather than keep getting on methadone, hating it, getting street drugs, back and forth...I just can't kick, either one....


So this time, so far, pretty good. Was at 100 mg, then dropped down 10mg a week to fifty, then 4mg a week to 30, then 3mg a week to nine, and tomorrow 2mg a week, down to jump....Some weeks are tougher than others, no week was horrible, no day was unbearable..and the minor chills and general bitchiness were more than compensated by the fact I wasn't horribly constipated anymore...but I totally disconnected myself from all past contacts and connections, throwing away phone numbers, changing mine, daily AA, monthly vets methadone groupo...all that...I knew I had to get life in order, couldn't just hope it would get better if I quit dope...that has never worked...hell, it gets *worse*....

Worked this far, tomorrow we'll see....after jump is when it counts, all this is just prelude...

Man I hope it works out for you this time, I been following your struggle the last couple of years. It just makes me wanna get away from it when I still can but it's hard to imagine even trying for me... because I haven't really I guess. I saw subs as my best option, a long slow taper right down to a placebo then off but now that's not an option... any time soon.

[nullnull]

pick up my dose every day, arrange in advance when i want to travel, take regular drug tests, etc. All the things that suboxone patients shouldn't have to deal with.i know this can be annoying at first but after ~6 month or so youll eventually get take homes
and youll be fine. i dont think this will be different when youre on methadone.

and if i were you, i wouldnt stay to long on subutex or methadone, the longer you stay the harder
the WDs will be. ;)

[nick]

How desperate are you bro?

'Done can bring stability and for a lot of us stability is as good as it gets,but what saves you and gives you stability today can become a ball and chain that ruins your life in the future.So,as I say,how desperate are you bro?

[Duckfeet]

My feelings exactly: I had to be brutally honest w/myself, and where I stood, and *this* time went in w/eyes wide open, rather than floundering around and hating methadone. I *was* desperate, and knew that this could be a lifetime deal, and that I really was trading in the problems of *one* type of addiction, for another...but again, "so far, so good..."


How desperate are you bro?

'Done can bring stability and for a lot of us stability is as good as it gets,but what saves you and gives you stability today can become a ball and chain that ruins your life in the future.So,as I say,how desperate are you bro?

[Seedy]

How desperate are you bro?

'Done can bring stability and for a lot of us stability is as good as it gets,but what saves you and gives you stability today can become a ball and chain that ruins your life in the future.So,as I say,how desperate are you bro?


Good question... pretty desperate I guess but already having a tase of the whole ball & chain scenario has really made me rethink things. I don't know what the fuck to do, I had a plan but under these circumstances it's not gonna happen, I have to adhear to the clinic's bullshit plan. Having no say in my suboxone dose is just gonna drive me crazy. I can't even split my dose to 2mg in the morning, 2 at night for example... I can't drop to 2mg a day to see it that works better for me I can't even drop my dose to under 2mg to do a taper because according to the clinic staff "suboxone pills are quite volatile and degrade quickly when they leave their packaging". what a bunch of crap, I'm like the 3rd person in my city to get on subs, the clinic has no experience with it. This really is a bad country to live in for an opiate addict.

[Chipper]

I have never used Subs so i may be biased. Methadone has worked well for me, particularly as a means of tapering. I have always thought that if you have used opis for many years then Methadone is the way to go. It's also predictable and as nick says, brings stability.

It's also cheap and plentiful.

[Narkotikon]

I would weigh this out VERY carefully. I used to think methadone was no big deal, and only knew the basics about it. Then I did MMT and things turned out very badly. I still believe methadone works for people, and I'm not against it per se, but I think people should view it differently than other opiates. I think it's a last-resort kind of thing, after you've tried everything else. I look at it in a completely different light now. The only way I'd ever consider methadone would be as a last resort, just because I know how it effects me and because of how BAD it is to detox from, especially quickly.

That said, I think you should weigh your pros and cons. Make a list. Here, I'll sort of start it:

Methadone:

You said this was free, or at least less expensive than the Sub program
You could get high on it
You'd have to go to the clinic anyway (same as with Sub program)
Might help with cravings more

Suboxone / Subutex:

Less toxic / less side effects than methadone IMO
You can not really get high on it
You still have to go to the clinic
Doesn't help with cravings enough (although maybe you're just at too low of a dose, you said you're on 4mg? Maybe go up to 6mg?)

I think in terms of getting high, methadone would be the way to go. But, do you really want to use a methadone clinic to get high? I mean, in my opinion, methadone isn't that fun, and they're not going to radically increase your dose in huge increments to where you actually feel the increase. They do it slowly in baby steps, like 5mg, sometimes 10mg. Plus, you have to factor in how badly methadone raises your tolerance, but then again so does bupe. You also have to figure in how BAD coming off methadone is, especially if it's forced or you do it quickly. I mean, I think it would even be bad if you do it slowly. Doing it slowly might make it a little better, but it's still going to suck. And let me tell you the leg aches from methadone w/d hurt so bad that you'll want to take a saw and cut your legs off.

I think in terms of maintaining, Subs would be the way to go. I mean, you'd have to go to the clinic / pharm anyway, same as with methadone, and I just think bupe is easier / safer / more manageable. Maybe it's not, but I don't think of bupe the same way as I think of methadone. The other factor would be cost. You said you do have to pay more for Subs, whereas methadone is less expensive or free.

It's up to you, but I'd definitely think about it long and hard. Methadone might provide a nice buzz for the first week or so, and some people even say that it still buzzes them each day they dose for an hour or so, but it never did that for me. It just made me sleepy, fat, hungry, and tired, with absolutely no energy. I think part of it was being on too high of a dose, and I think part of it was unrealistic expectations that I had because I was under educated about it.

I would probably stick with Subs, especially if I had to do the same things as with methadone. But, if you feel that methadone is the way to go, then just research the hell out of it, and view it as a maintenance drug, and not as something to get high on. There are way better things to get high on IMO. Methadone just isn't that great for me. I'd much rather get high on morphine than methadone.

[Seedy]

Welll I've decided to stick it out a bit longer. It will get cheaper soon when I can pick up my dose at the local pharmacy. I think everyone at the clinic are just as frustrated with the system as I am but do their best to work around it. Over all I am feeling much better on subs than I was on 3 doses of PST a day and I am slightly less broke than I was. I can always switch to 'done further down the track but I think if I stick with subs, eventually I'll be in a position in which I'll be able to stash up some pills and wean off on my own terms.

[Narkotikon]

Welll I've decided to stick it out a bit longer. It will get cheaper soon when I can pick up my dose at the local pharmacy. I think everyone at the clinic are just as frustrated with the system as I am but do their best to work around it. Over all I am feeling much better on subs than I was on 3 doses of PST a day and I am slightly less broke than I was. I can always switch to 'done further down the track but I think if I stick with subs, eventually I'll be in a position in which I'll be able to stash up some pills and wean off on my own terms.

That's good. Glad you thought it through. Just out of curiosity. Are you only on 4mg of Subs because you want to be, or is it the clinic's policy? Is there a dose cap or something? It's just that here in the States doctors WAY overprescribe, and new people are regularly given anywhere from 8-32mg. I mean, I know less is more and stuff, but I just thought they would have started you higher. Is it by their doing, or yours?

[Seedy]

^^They actually wanted to put me on 6mg but I told them all along that I'd be fine on 4mg, which I am. If I was going to get on a bigger dose I'd push for 8mg which actually ends up being cheaper than 6 as the 8mg pills are cheaper by the mg. I can't even take half an 8mg pill a day which would be cheaper. Fucking stupid system.

[jonny-5]

hahaha suboxones are very volitile and degrade as soon as they leave their packaging? thats the biggest load of crap ive ever heard. i would have just told the bitch "youre stupid" and left it at that.

[Narkotikon]

hahaha suboxones are very volitile and degrade as soon as they leave their packaging? thats the biggest load of crap ive ever heard. i would have just told the bitch "youre stupid" and left it at that.

Yeah, that is really stupid. I mean, they do crumble somewhat if they get damp. They do sometimes stick together if you put the pill bottle anywhere damp. But, if you keep them in the bottle, and keep the bottle in a dry place away from direct light (like you're supposed to do with any pills anyway), then it's fine. They make it sound like they desentigrate as soon as they hit air. That's a lie.

[Seedy]

hahaha suboxones are very volitile and degrade as soon as they leave their packaging? thats the biggest load of crap ive ever heard. i would have just told the bitch "youre stupid" and left it at that.
man i gotta hold my tongue for my own good. If I'd said everything I've wanted to say about this whole thing ... I'd be in all kinds of shit