? * ? . If drugs were legal and pigs could fly.

[pharmboy]

So here's a question for you guys : If drugs were legal would you still get as much

enjoyment out of them ? In other words do you do drugs BECAUSE they are illegal

and there by rebel. Or does that not come into it at all ?

I'll take your answers off the air.

Thanx all. .:jumping-s

[Duckfeet]

Well: the best feeling, is when you are desperate and sick...and do anything to cop, and "get well." That moment trumps all else...but to know it, you gotta get strung out, and that sucks, normal life over. But I think the appeal, when young--or at least it was to me--*was* the outlaw appeal...doing heroin is so damned *irrevocable*...which is it's appeal, I mean, I always felt out of place, less than, not tuff enuff, all that...and so *yes* that's part of it, and gets us going in this type of life...

but then it's just a need, just a plain old need, because normal life kind of sucks when you don't get opys, after u've been strung out once or twice...

And so having said all that, and knowing that I'm struggling again towards abstinance from opiates...I woulda been on heroin maintenance a long long time ago, if it were legal, and sure the thrill would wear off, and I'd probably yearn to be off it, and plot and plan *to* get off it, blah blah blah....

Boils down to the old "no free lunch," for me...or like second law of thermodynamics is paraphrased:
You can't win
You can't break even
And you can't get out of the motherfucking game...:cool:


So here's a question for you guys : If drugs were legal would you still get as much

enjoyment out of them ? In other words do you do drugs BECAUSE they are illegal

and there by rebel. Or does that not come into it at all ?

I'll take your answers off the air.

Thanx all. .:jumping-s

[nick]

Well: the best feeling, is when you are desperate and sick...and do anything to cop, and "get well." That moment trumps all else...but to know it, you gotta get strung out, and that sucks, normal life over. But I think the appeal, when young--or at least it was to me--*was* the outlaw appeal...doing heroin is so damned *irrevocable*...which is it's appeal, I mean, I always felt out of place, less than, not tuff enuff, all that...and so *yes* that's part of it, and gets us going in this type of life...

but then it's just a need, just a plain old need, because normal life kind of sucks when you don't get opys, after u've been strung out once or twice...

And so having said all that, and knowing that I'm struggling again towards abstinance from opiates...I woulda been on heroin maintenance a long long time ago, if it were legal, and sure the thrill would wear off, and I'd probably yearn to be off it, and plot and plan *to* get off it, blah blah blah....

Boils down to the old "no free lunch," for me...or like second law of thermodynamics is paraphrased:
You can't win
You can't break even
And you can't get out of the motherfucking game...:cool:

True,the gig is learning how to lose well.

Oh and the law has/had nothing to do with my using(which kinda suggests how pointless prohibition really is),but I have come across many folks that use as a part of an image thing.It kinda annoys me,keep wanting to scream "grow the fuck up."

[rockbottom]

i wish shit was legal because i like all drugs---if i could do meth in the morning barbiuates at night--mescaline 2x aweek opiates on the weekends i'd be happy---but the outlaw shit was fun -dealing with bikers--gold-girls--guns- guitars and cars---yeah good times as long as you don't run out

[Indy]

ABSOLUTELY. I use mainly semi-legal opiates (pods and seeds) anyway, but the outlaw BS (no offense to anyone, i just don't know any other word to describe it) has no appeal to me. I just wanna use my drugs and get on with my life, not make drugs my life. Nobody i know knows i do drugs, it just doesn't really come up. I figure it's just one part of me, it's not my identity.

But then again, poking holes in a ziploc bag and mixing the juice with orange soda and chugging it, sometimes making a huge fucking mess of poppy seeds, doesn't exactly have the glamour or chic that heroin does, so maybe that's why. I wouldn't have it any other way though.

[pharmboy]

Well although very interesting about biker gangs and such I was thinking more

along the lines of kind of a subconscious rebelion by doing drugs.

Or a feeling of getting away with something because they are illegal.

[Narkotikon]

Yeah, I sort of agree with Indy. I get no enjoyment out of being "bad" or breaking the law to use. I use because I'm addicted and because I enjoy the high. What I do NOT enjoy is having to search high and low for what I want. I think I'd be much much happier if I could just go to a pharmacy and get what I want without having to search for it. I just want to do my opiates, get high, and enjoy it. I don't want to have an image as a bad person who breaks the law. That just doesn't appeal to me. I think maybe a small part of enjoyment came from rebelling against my family in the beginning, but I don't think drugs being illegal has anything to do with it. They would still think drugs were wrong / bad even if they were legal. So, the illegality of drugs doesn't really play into that. The enjoyment came more from control. I was doing something they couldn't control, and that has more to do with approval than illegality. I was rebelling against their approval, not because the drugs were illegal, but because they were drugs and therefore bad in their minds.

[SurfRat]

Who doesn't want to be a rebel

and who the hell wants to grow the fuck up.

One of the reasons I got my prescription for marijuana was to actively protest prohibition.
I mean there's still a lot of people who are literally afraid to get a prescription, because they think they will be sought out by the government...
There's a case of rebelling by adhering to the (state) law.

There's degrees in everything.

[Narkotikon]

Who doesn't want to be a rebel

and who the hell wants to grow the fuck up.

One of the reasons I got my prescription for marijuana was to actively protest prohibition.
I mean there's still a lot of people who are literally afraid to get a prescription, because they think they will be sought out by the government...
There's a case of rebelling by adhering to the (state) law.

There's degrees in everything.

What's your prescription for? I mean, what condition? Are there limits as to what conditions are eligible? Or, could you get a prescription for off-label uses, like mental conditions like anxiety and depression? Or, does it have to be stuff like cancer pain, glaucoma, and stuff like that?

Have you ever been harassed / gotten into trouble because you have a prescription from the state?

[God_Albino]

as much as id love no more hassle or fear of cops, knowing how degenerate alot of folks get on meth/coke kinda scares me if it was totally legal.

all drugs have a lot bigger downsides than users usually give them credit for, people should have to take classes for certain drugs, at the very least, i don't know.

at some point all societys will embrace rampant drug use, and its gonna be bad.

[EleusisII]

I guess it might make using 10% less attractive, or something like that.
The rush, the pleasure from opies themselves would be the same, but there are certain, shall we say charms to prohibition, that some people enjoy.

Rituals...

Driving around somewhere, looking for a connect.
The joy of finding a new hookup.
Taking that first hit, when you start going into withdrawals.

I remember an old junkie writing something about users secretly love withdrawals.
Because you know, you've arrived as a junkie. You're finally the member of a little, exclusive club.

[jonny-5]

i think i originally started smoking cigarettes and weed due to that whole "rebel" thing, but when it comes to opiates, i could enjoy them no matter what their legal status. but my tolerance would be soo freaking high (i have a low tolerance now) that i wouldnt be enjoying the high as much as i do now.

[SurfRat]

What's your prescription for? I mean, what condition? Are there limits as to what conditions are eligible? Or, could you get a prescription for off-label uses, like mental conditions like anxiety and depression? Or, does it have to be stuff like cancer pain, glaucoma, and stuff like that?

Have you ever been harassed / gotten into trouble because you have a prescription from the state?

For me it's insomnia.

There's no way I can imagine people with scripts getting hassled, the Dr. I saw was writing at least five an hour, eight hours a day five days a week.
That's about ten thousand a year from one Dr. alone. There's (guessing...) easily a hundred thousand legal patients in CA. Good luck.

At this time, for practical purposes decriminalized in CA. Is everybody stoned?

No. Nobody could care less, smokers no longer have to live in fear, that's the only thing that changed. The Feds are still raiding dispensaries, kind of arbitrarily.
That's the only problem and it's a stupid waste of time and money.

[pharmboy]

When I was 11 I started smoking cigs and that was all about rebelling.

These days the drugs are all about the pain, but with the DEA and all

those assholes I rebel any way I can find, Drugs just don't seem to work

for me in that way. If I didn't have the pain, street drugs would definitely

be on my menu, but I am glad I don't have to resort to them.

[nick]

Who doesn't want to be a rebel

and who the hell wants to grow the fuck up.

One of the reasons I got my prescription for marijuana was to actively protest prohibition.
I mean there's still a lot of people who are literally afraid to get a prescription, because they think they will be sought out by the government...
There's a case of rebelling by adhering to the (state) law.

There's degrees in everything.

I don't want to be a rebel and I grew up.Hell,anyone may age who still enjoys being a rebel is an idiot.

and in relation to your cannabis rx,I think that you're confusing activism with rebellion.They're very different beasts.

Either way,it's good that you did it because the gig with weed in Cali is far from sorted.

Oh and E,what is that Groucho said about joing clubs.............?

[SurfRat]

I don't want to be a rebel and I grew up.Hell,anyone may age who still enjoys being a rebel is an idiot.

and in relation to your cannabis rx,I think that you're confusing activism with rebellion.They're very different beasts.

Either way,it's good that you did it because the gig with weed in Cali is far from sorted.

Oh and E,what is that Groucho said about joing clubs.............?



When you say rebel you mean like eating wheat germ and wearing vegan shoes. Right?

[Narkotikon]

I remember an old junkie writing something about users secretly love withdrawals.
Because you know, you've arrived as a junkie. You're finally the member of a little, exclusive club.

I can see what he means, because I think it's really hard--if not impossible--for people to truly understand addiction, and especially opiate addiction, unless they've been through withdrawal. It pisses me off when I've been in rehab and these so-called substance abuse counselors talk about physical w/d from opiates being no big deal. Of course I asked them if they were a former addict, because a lot of substance abuse counselors are, and more often than not the ones who always said it was no big deal were the ones who were never addicts. One even went so far as to be offended that I asked her that. I mean, if you're a substance abuse counselor, it's a valid question. I'd say most addicts ask their counselors at some point or another if they've been addicted / used drugs before. So why would you get offended? Anyway, I can see what he's saying about having to go through it to understand it, but...

I don't know about you, but I wasn't happy when I first started getting physical w/d. The very first time, I was totally fucking confused. I thought I was sick, but at the same time knew it wasn't because I had a cold or the flu, then I started wondering and reading and put two and two together. But, as time went on, and my use increased, so did the w/d. I sort of got used to them, because I knew what to expect, but even that doesn't take away the anxiety and all the other crap that is w/d. I was never happy to get them, and I was never secretly in love with them. I spent a lot of my time trying to maintain so I didn't have to go through that, even though you know you eventually will.

[Boxcar]

i cant say the legality of the drug determines my use. i dont anyone that didnt get what they wanted because it was illegal. id prolly use even more. i guess if they were legal theyed be controlled. so, question is, would theycost more or less than they do now?

[nick]

i cant say the legality of the drug determines my use. i dont anyone that didnt get what they wanted because it was illegal. id prolly use even more. i guess if they were legal theyed be controlled. so, question is, would theycost more or less than they do now?

Less,but not by as much as some folks claim.

[bigNasty]

Less,but not by as much as some folks claim.
I think it would be alot less if you are talking street prices vs. what the gov't would charge us if they were legalized. I mean people pay $.50-1.00 per mg for oxy's. The gov't could charge us $.15-.25 per mg for oxy and junkies, purdue and the gov't would all be happy IMO. But i think you might be talking about H prices and i don't have a clue about that but as much as we bad mouth our gov't, I'd rather have my money that goes towards drugs go to the gov't than a drug dealer. Think of all the money they would make to educate citizens, fix roads, save social security, etc......

[nick]

I think it would be alot less if you are talking street prices vs. what the gov't would charge us if they were legalized. I mean people pay $.50-1.00 per mg for oxy's. The gov't could charge us $.15-.25 per mg for oxy and junkies, purdue and the gov't would all be happy IMO. But i think you might be talking about H prices and i don't have a clue about that but as much as we bad mouth our gov't, I'd rather have my money that goes towards drugs go to the gov't than a drug dealer. Think of all the money they would make to educate citizens, fix roads, save social security, etc......

Yeah,I'm talking about drugs that are ilicit(street drugs) at present.I don't think I've ever seen a projection study for legalised pharms.

[Boxcar]

what see here tho is people thinkin that if all drugs were legal we could get whatever we want... i dont think thats true. meth heads will not stop doin meth. i dont think adderall and such will be available. the pharmacutical companies and doctors arent just gonna release pharms into the drug market. i dont see someone goin into the head shop, store or whatever being able to pick up 20 oxys, like they will a pack of marijuana cigarettes. i think the only things that will become legal are the STREET DRUGS themselves.

secondly, i think when we say legal, really thats the wrong word, what were talkin about is a decriminalzation. which i have to tend to think, again, would bewith street drugs. pharm companieshave far too much money at stake. i just dont see pharmacuticals included in the theory. just my opinion.... pls dont judge my intellect on my spelling errors.

does anyone agree with me here, if legalation happens, are we to expect to be able to buy the phams. we want to buy. i mean you would ultimaely be elimating a doctors job. they are, and i say this lightly, supposed to be the ones educated enuff to know what drugs we need, how much, how long , and why. so i just dont see it happening.

[nick]

what see here tho is people thinkin that if all drugs were legal we could get whatever we want... i dont think thats true. meth heads will not stop doin meth. i dont think adderall and such will be available. the pharmacutical companies and doctors arent just gonna release pharms into the drug market. i dont see someone goin into the head shop, store or whatever being able to pick up 20 oxys, like they will a pack of marijuana cigarettes. i think the only things that will become legal are the STREET DRUGS themselves.

secondly, i think when we say legal, really thats the wrong word, what were talkin about is a decriminalzation. which i have to tend to think, again, would bewith street drugs. pharm companieshave far too much money at stake. i just dont see pharmacuticals included in the theory. just my opinion.... pls dont judge my intellect on my spelling errors.

does anyone agree with me here, if legalation happens, are we to expect to be able to buy the phams. we want to buy. i mean you would ultimaely be elimating a doctors job. they are, and i say this lightly, supposed to be the ones educated enuff to know what drugs we need, how much, how long , and why. so i just dont see it happening.

Legalisation and decriminalisation are two different beasts.Personally,I believe in the later not the former.

[skc74]

I think if they legalised and regulated drugs i'm sure a lot of people would gradually lose interest,cause there's nothing very dangerous and dodgy about queing up along with old ladies waiting for their arthritis medications,and your there for your cocaine and heroin,it'd normalise it,and i think i for one would probably look at my drug use in a different light,and probably end up fucking it off,but thats not going to happen anytime soon,so....

[longduckdong]

does anyone agree with me here, if legalation happens, are we to expect to be able to buy the phams. we want to buy. i mean you would ultimaely be elimating a doctors job. they are, and i say this lightly, supposed to be the ones educated enuff to know what drugs we need, how much, how long , and why. so i just dont see it happening.

Good post Box. Excellent points.

[nick]

I think if they legalised and regulated drugs i'm sure a lot of people would gradually lose interest,cause there's nothing very dangerous and dodgy about queing up along with old ladies waiting for their arthritis medications,and your there for your cocaine and heroin,it'd normalise it,and i think i for one would probably look at my drug use in a different light,and probably end up fucking it off,but thats not going to happen anytime soon,so....

Damn straight man and proof of this already exsists in the Swiss experience.

[jonny-5]

on the weed thing im gonna smoke weather i have a prescription or not. i have had many run ins with the police where i had weed and nothing happened. weed is such a low priority around here that having a prescription for it is just a waste of money.


and on the legalizing drugs eliminating doctors thing, thats a good thought but i dont think its true. drugs were legal for much much longer than they have been illegal, and doctors had their place back then. they did their job better, and werent motivated by money and pressure from the dea and pharmaceutical companies. you would still go to the doctor when youre sick, and they would suggest what you need. then you go to the store and buy it. and if you feel like you have the knowlege to know what you need, you can not go to the doctor. humans got along without doctors for thousands of years. also, i dont see doctors losing their jobs cause people still break bones, get diseases, and all that stuff.
the problem here is that over the last 100 years drugs and doctors have become so intertwined that people have a hard time separating the two, when in reality a physicians job should really be more like a health consultant, not a prescription writer. i just dont see doctors losing their jobs if drugs were legalized, i think their jobs would go back to what theyre SUPPOSED to be.

[Boxcar]

on the weed thing im gonna smoke weather i have a prescription or not. i have had many run ins with the police where i had weed and nothing happened. weed is such a low priority around here that having a prescription for it is just a waste of money.


and on the legalizing drugs eliminating doctors thing, thats a good thought but i dont think its true. drugs were legal for much much longer than they have been illegal, and doctors had their place back then. they did their job better, and werent motivated by money and pressure from the dea and pharmaceutical companies. you would still go to the doctor when youre sick, and they would suggest what you need. then you go to the store and buy it. and if you feel like you have the knowlege to know what you need, you can not go to the doctor. humans got along without doctors for thousands of years. also, i dont see doctors losing their jobs cause people still break bones, get diseases, and all that stuff.
the problem here is that over the last 100 years drugs and doctors have become so intertwined that people have a hard time separating the two, when in reality a physicians job should really be more like a health consultant, not a prescription writer. i just dont see doctors losing their jobs if drugs were legalized, i think their jobs would go back to what theyre SUPPOSED to be.

i dont think the drs. would be outta work, but for instance there would be no need for a pain clinic. which for us might be nice. however, i just dont see us being able to goto the pharm and BUY whatever it we want. maybe im wrong, just my opinion. as far as the pharm companies go, theyd prolly love it, i mean theyd make alot more money if it were an open market, more people would be addicted, therefor there would be much more of demand. i mean im all for it happening. i just dont see it as likely. with street drugs tho, i think when we speak of making drugs legal, thats what we are referring to. safe shotting houses, heroin maintainence... those types of things. but crack, meth things of that nature i dont beleive would reduce crime because wether its availeable legally or not you still hafta have money to buy it. the ones commiting crimes, dont have the money to buy it. if along with the legalizing came maintainence programs for all the drugs would be wonderful, and im the first one to say use my taxes for that.

but the day we can walk into a store/pharmacy and simply purchase what we want. i dunno. i dont see that happening even with the legalize or dicriminalizing of drugs

[jonny-5]

i dont think the drs. would be outta work, but for instance there would be no need for a pain clinic. which for us might be nice. however, i just dont see us being able to goto the pharm and BUY whatever it we want. maybe im wrong, just my opinion. as far as the pharm companies go, theyd prolly love it, i mean theyd make alot more money if it were an open market, more people would be addicted, therefor there would be much more of demand. i mean im all for it happening. i just dont see it as likely. with street drugs tho, i think when we speak of making drugs legal, thats what we are referring to. safe shotting houses, heroin maintainence... those types of things. but crack, meth things of that nature i dont beleive would reduce crime because wether its availeable legally or not you still hafta have money to buy it. the ones commiting crimes, dont have the money to buy it. if along with the legalizing came maintainence programs for all the drugs would be wonderful, and im the first one to say use my taxes for that.

but the day we can walk into a store/pharmacy and simply purchase what we want. i dunno. i dont see that happening even with the legalize or dicriminalizing of drugs


i know what you mean. its hard to picture a store that has ALL the different drugs that are out there, so fucking many drugs have been developed since drugs were made illegal, before then you could go to a store and your options were different opium formulations, heroin, cocaine products, stuff like that. a drugstore these days (if they were legal) would no doubt be the size of a walmart.

[Boxcar]

Legalisation and decriminalisation are two different beasts.Personally,I believe in the later not the former.

i too believe in the latter. with legalazation comes govt' control. which i why i argue i dont think youll be able to walk in a drug store and purchase what you want. i just dont think people should have to be lookin over their shoulder when they wanna go buy some dope. and i also would like to see programs for crack and heroin that would help eliminate crime and needles in the sand at our parks, and tweekers in cars smokin where all can see. i dont want things "legalized" that was my point to that post.

a lil offtopic but has anyone seen marlboros packaging and plans for when weed is legal? i mean they are ready to go, they have the packaging ready for marijuana cigarettes. those boxes will no doubt hafta have the tax stamps as do smokes. i think it will be like buyin beer. kids get beer and booze regardless. i dont think the laws have stopped anyone from doin what they want. except for when it lands someone in a cell. and that fer sure aint right. in CA like 65% (pls dont quote me on that, im basing it on MSNBC's LOCKUP) of inmates are drug offenders. overcrowding is a huge issue.

[EleusisII]

Oh and E,what is that Groucho said about joing clubs.............?

I don't know, let me know ;)
Can't remember where I read that quote about WDs being like joining a club. Some old junkies page, where he posted all these cool dope stories from New York in the 70ies...

[QUOTE]
and in relation to your cannabis rx,I think that you're confusing activism with rebellion.They're very different beasts.
[QUOTE]
And in this case, it you might come to regret it. Cannabis RX should be strictly for a couple of medical problems (such as glaucoma, cancerpain, AIDS, etc.) where it's proven that it helps, and not loose diagnosis that aren't supported by the medical community such as "It helps my ADD", or "it works wonders on my asthma"...

Why? Because drug-companies are investing millions of $ in developing pharmaceuticals from marijuana. If there's a widespread view, that pot-prescriptions are given out on a loose basis, and without strict medical needs, the push from the right wing to eventually replace pot RX with drugs developed from pot, will be so much stronger.
It'll come back to bite you in the end...

[pharmboy]

I don't want to be a rebel and I grew up.Hell,anyone may age who still enjoys being a rebel is an idiot.

Nick, We're not idiots, we're stuck in a shit ass country that NEEDS a good revolution.

You know from your trip to Houston this country needs some major changes and they

won't come in our life time if we go through the accepted channels.