RE: The Bail Out Plan; Why should I pay out?

[Hannah]

For the stupid ass mortgage you picked up that you couldn’t pay for? You’re taking the money from my SSI invoice and Pay Check…Now you as a president want us to fork over more money from an already excused system that is broken down IE. The taxpayer IE. ME!!…Shoot me in the fucking head why don’t you?!…Oh and by the way the majority of YOUR PARTY didn’t agree to this ‘deal’ you cut without there say-so…Now you expect US to clean up your shit?! WTF?! I say let those who had the homes they never could pay for should be forced to pay up or LOSE THERE HOMES!!! No one fucking bailed my family out when we nearly lost ours! Heck no, we had to bust our asses and pay it off, the rest of you mucks who don’t want to pay up or can’t afford it oh fucking well…Pay up or GTFO…Don’t make us suffer for your dim-witted error(s)…

[Indy]

I thought you were on disability, which is untaxed income.

[bored in sofl]

AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH H:mad:

[Hannah]

I thought you were on disability, which is untaxed income.

I am but I also work part time which is taxed...

[Suboxstitute]

I just wanna get the guys with the gold-plated toilets who made all the money.

You know (I got this from a friend) if they split the $70 billion between each adult in the US (and that would be several hundred thousand each adult) we'd first send roughly 30%-35% back in taxes to the government.. fine, I don't mind taxes if they'd havspend money to provide decent health care, education and fix our cities' infrastructre.

Then we'd all pay off our mortgages if we had reasonable mortgages on reasonable sized homes.

BAM - mortgage prolem solved.

Then we'd invest the rest in college for our kids, retirement for us.

end of story. I didn't make this up; like I said, a friend emailed it to me but it as better written.

Fairytale/never happen.

Sue

[roxi*stardust]

This is bullshit! These people should have got out the adjustable rate mortgages when they could. Rates were so low a few years back there was no reason for people to get adjustable rates. Now their rate is so high that their payments are not even close to affordable. The whole thing is nuts.

[bored in sofl]

A friend posted this on myspace

I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.


Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a We Deserve the Dividend.

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bona fide U.S. Citizens 18+.

Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billion that equals $425,000.00.

My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a We Deserve It not the wall street criminals.


Of course, it would NOT be tax free.

So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.

Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes.

That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.

But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket.

A husband and wife has $595,000.00.

What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.

00 in your family?
Pay off your mortgage - housing crisis solved. Real estate market stabilized.

Repay college loans - what a great boost to new grads Put away money for college - it'll be there Save in a bank - create money to loan to entrepreneurs.

Buy a new car - create jobs

Invest in the market - capital drives growth Pay for your parent's medical insurance - health care improves

Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean - or else ....

Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.

If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of trickling out a puny $1000.

00 ( "vote buy" )

If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+!

As for AIG - liquidate it.

Sell off its parts and pieces

Let American General go back to being American General.


Sell off the real estate.


Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.


Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't.


Sure it's a crazy idea that can "never work." Because it would fix the problem and remove the political power from the elected political dirt-bags.


But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!

How do you spell Economic Boom?

I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion We Deserve It Divided up amongst us more than do the geniuses at AIG or in Washington DC.


And remember, The Family plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam for the elected political dirt-bags to piss away on pork.

[Pointy]

that 85 billion is more red ink. Plus AIG is now a nationalized company so as tax payers we own most of it. Once we pay off that 85 billion in extra debt our nation just took on, of course.

I gotta agree with the people who say fuck the selfish home buyers who took out mortgages they could never afford. It doesn 't take an einstein to figure out that someone who makes $50 grand a year can not afford a $300,000 house.

it is going to take generations to dig this country out of the 5 trillion in debt we have racked up over the last 8 years. Then we can start to work on the other 5 trillion it took the nation 225 years to rack up.

[jonny-5]

im moving to canada.

[ZodiacKiller]

I like Bored's plan. I don't own a house, but with his plan, I would own a modest little bungalow free and clear, with money left over for drugs and guitars. I need that money. Bored in sofl for president.


ZK

[Hoss]

I like Bored's plan. I don't own a house, but with his plan, I would own a modest little bungalow free and clear, with money left over for drugs and guitars. I need that money. Bored in sofl for president.


ZK

YES!:cool:

[bored in sofl]

I wish I could take credit for the ideal but this slut messaged it to me and I had to share it with some of the most intelligent people I know. Not all of you just most:rolleyes:

[bigNasty]

I just wanna get the guys with the gold-plated toilets who made all the money.

You know (I got this from a friend) if they split the $70 billion between each adult in the US (and that would be several hundred thousand each adult)

Sue
Your friend is WRONG. 1st of all, its a $700 billion buy-out. And 2nd of all, 700 bill divided by 300 million US citizens would be $2333. I see that ^^^ it says each US ADULT, but that would still only be about $5-10k. Not several hundred thousand

[bored in sofl]

I just did the math it don't add up at all. I wonder if my friend is that stupid cause she's a veggitarian. Now I feel stupid for posting that.

[SurfRat]

Your friend is WRONG. 1st of all, its a $700 billion buy-out. And 2nd of all, 700 bill divided by 300 million US citizens would be $2333. I see that ^^^ it says each US ADULT, but that would still only be about $5-10k. Not several hundred thousand


You are right about the number but Sub is right about the concept and Bored is right too, and it's still way too much coming out of our pockets.

If the government is worried about the economy then why the fuck don't they give us a break directly, instead of taking more of our money. This doesn't save people who are busting on their mortgages, it just rewards the financial institutions who wanted to make a quick buck, they new what they were doing, this isn't rocket science.

And Roxi, hell if I know, fuck sake save a couple points for what? One of my friends did manage to council several of his work colleagues to swap over to fixed. It isn't like the rates popped up overnight.

I won't tell you my fixed rate lets' just say I finally got it right, I am also cutting it close every month and I sure got a ways to go...

A lot of the people got fucked were justing flipping houses right and left for a quick buck, they deserved it if they got caught, it's part of the game, high profit high risk.

It 's not cool what is going on in Washington, no f---ing way, I haven't met anyone who agrees with this shit.

[bored in sofl]

I fucked up a few years ago and had to file bankruptcy. No one gave me 20-30grand saying here you fucked up here's more money

[jonny-5]

im moving to canada.


best idea yet.

[bored in sofl]

5 I'd meet you at the border but I'm a felon

[Indy]

I tend to stay out of politics because EVERYONE always says that their way is 100% correct, and that it's incredibly simple and everything would be fine if they were the king of the world. Not talking about anyone in this thread, just explaining why i stay out of politics.

However, using that 700 billion dollars or whatever to give to people to pay back taxes wouldn't work: the money is coming from taxes in the first place, it's like just printing more money to pay off our debt: circular. I do think bailing out the people who have the mortgages rather than the banks would work better.

I don't agree with saying "it's their own fault for taking out mortgages on houses they couldn't afford." i don't really know EVERY SINGLE person who did that, so i can't say why they chose to, but it's irrelevant. why? because it being "their fault" doesn't actually change the problem at all: people have tons of mortgages they can't pay off. just punishing them for it and letting them "learn from their mistakes" doesn't do shit for the economy, even if it IS their own fault, we all would benefit from solving their housing debt problems. the idea behind helping them out isn't because we feel bad for them, it's to get the economy flowing again, because NOBODY benefits from people "learning their lesson about loans" and becoming poor. in fact, in economics, blaming anybody really doesn't help anyone IMO.

i realize this is just one way of looking at, but a lot of people on this other board think that it's either right or wong, and of course their view is always the right one. i pride myself in accepting that other people's views on politics are just as valid as mine are. when there's something FACTUAL they're wrong on, i can't "agree to disagree", sure, but i'm talking about "what i would do if i were president" type things where people alway INSIST that "my way would work perfectly, and the only people who disagree are damn liberals/convervatives/commies who don't know anything about politics." THAT's what really bothers me.

[SeVeN]

You got the whole idea of whats going on wrong. Well kinda. The housing market had something to do with it, BUT it was the investments corps. that did the lending and tried to make too much profit. Not to mention other fundemental flaws in their buisnesses. They made bad buisness deciosions and the result is failur. Not to mentio the way these slime were making moner. They deserve to lose and let the next brighter firms step up. Those are the reasons we should not get involved. It will however create a new inflation that will be a short but "faux" boom. That will lead to the same shit in the near history.

Edit: Directed at op didnt read all other posts.

A friend posted this on myspace

I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.


Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a We Deserve the Dividend.

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bona fide U.S. Citizens 18+.

Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billion that equals $425,000.00.

My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a We Deserve It not the wall street criminals.


Of course, it would NOT be tax free.

So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.

Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes.

That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.

But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket.

A husband and wife has $595,000.00.

What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.

00 in your family?
Pay off your mortgage - housing crisis solved. Real estate market stabilized.

Repay college loans - what a great boost to new grads Put away money for college - it'll be there Save in a bank - create money to loan to entrepreneurs.

Buy a new car - create jobs

Invest in the market - capital drives growth Pay for your parent's medical insurance - health care improves

Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean - or else ....

Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.

If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of trickling out a puny $1000.

00 ( "vote buy" )

If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+!

As for AIG - liquidate it.

Sell off its parts and pieces

Let American General go back to being American General.


Sell off the real estate.


Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.


Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't.


Sure it's a crazy idea that can "never work." Because it would fix the problem and remove the political power from the elected political dirt-bags.


But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!

How do you spell Economic Boom?

I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion We Deserve It Divided up amongst us more than do the geniuses at AIG or in Washington DC.


And remember, The Family plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam for the elected political dirt-bags to piss away on pork.


There's a bunch of huge holes in that man.

[Suboxstitute]

You are right about the number but Sub is right about the concept and Bored is right too, and it's still way too much coming out of our pockets.
<snip>
It 's not cool what is going on in Washington, no f---ing way, I haven't met anyone who agrees with this shit.

I don't feel dumb for posting my abbreviated version and NO ONE should feel dumb - it's just the CONCEPT as Surfrat so diplomatically pointed out.

we need change. big, think out of the box change. I can't talk politics here (or most anywhere) i get too upset. But picking Sarah Palin when they are SO MANY qualified Republican women who have paid their dues is pandering - just fucking PANDERING to the religious right. I used to respect John McCain. No more. He's as bad as Karl Rove.

So people - read as many sources as you can, both sides. The TV commericials are bullshit, nothing but sound clips and bullshit. but ya gotta educate yourself.

And unless you are developmentally disabled and cannot read or write, NO one should be able to talk you into an interest only mortgage with a balloon payment in five years - I guess people were and still are just wanting a piece of the American dream - a house.

I am tired and benzo'd out/sorry for errors etc.

[bored in sofl]

^^^ ya we figured that out. I definitly agree. Those company played off peoples hopes that they could own a home while at the time those banks new they couldn't afford it. fucking scum

[bigNasty]

I don't feel dumb for posting my abbreviated version and NO ONE should feel dumb - it's just the CONCEPT as Surfrat so diplomatically pointed out.

we need change. big, think out of the box change. I can't talk politics here (or most anywhere) i get too upset. But picking Sarah Palin when they are SO MANY qualified Republican women who have paid their dues is pandering - just fucking PANDERING to the religious right. I used to respect John McCain. No more. He's as bad as Karl Rove.

So people - read as many sources as you can, both sides. The TV commericials are bullshit, nothing but sound clips and bullshit. but ya gotta educate yourself.

And unless you are developmentally disabled and cannot read or write, NO one should be able to talk you into an interest only mortgage with a balloon payment in five years - I guess people were and still are just wanting a piece of the American dream - a house.

I am tired and benzo'd out/sorry for errors etc.
I wasn't trying to make anybody feel dumb. I understand getting bad info from a friend in an email type shit and just repeating the info without thinking about it. I was just pointing out that the math was wrong, nothing more. And like Indy, I stay out of political conversations or threads cuz it only pisses me off cause alot of people(nobody on here so far) can't have an intelligent conversation or debate without getting all pissy and over-emotional. Fuck all politicians anyway, its all about money IMO. Whether its republicans being blunt about it(sorry Shelley) or democrats pretending they care about poor folks.

[jonny-5]

oh i thought we were talking about bales of hay. i have hear of this bail out plan tho.

[Hoss]

And unless you are developmentally disabled and cannot read or write, NO one should be able to talk you into an interest only mortgage with a balloon payment in five years - I guess people were and still are just wanting a piece of the American dream - a house.



I worked in the sub-prime mortgage industry for many years and can tell you first hand that things got pretty damn ridiculous with products and loan types that were developed and effectively implemented across the nation to damning effect in countless cases, as witnessed currently in the daily worsening of not only the housing situation but also that of the impact that the overall housing market has had on our economy en masse.

To add salt to the wound and as if just the plain fact that many of the crazy loan products were not bad enough on their own, there was also a large amount of fraud being committed on the inside of financial companies in the form of individuals falsifying whatever was needed to approve loans for borrowers, effectively allowing borrowers to be approved for already CRAZY loans, but with false information stating they made way more money than they really did. They wouldn't have been able to afford the loan in many cases at all, so people would just change your information to get the loan approved, and in turn the dirty folks on the inside who did this got paid under the table for their foul play.

In one instance, a guy I worked with that was also on my bowling team for a couple of years is doing a ton of hard time in federal prison for just this type of junk I describe; he and his sales exec even were creating false loans to imaginary properties, people, and even in some rare cases, deceased individuals, in addition to "upping peoples income" on the regular - and they would get the bread.

ANYWAYS, I'm babblin', but trust me I'm just as fed up as all of us - especially since I saw so much crap from the inside, and now this (current market crash). I always kept it honest, but many didn't.

It'll all come back around, as it always does, but I just hope as a nation we have learned a valuable lesson this go-'round concerning our home lending practices.

[BigPoppy]

A friend posted this on myspace

I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.


Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a We Deserve the Dividend.

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bona fide U.S. Citizens 18+.

Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billion that equals $425,000.00.

My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a We Deserve It not the wall street criminals.


Of course, it would NOT be tax free.
So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.

Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes.

That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.

But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket.

A husband and wife has $595,000.00.

What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.

00 in your family?
Pay off your mortgage - housing crisis solved. Real estate market stabilized.

Repay college loans - what a great boost to new grads Put away money for college - it'll be there Save in a bank - create money to loan to entrepreneurs.

Buy a new car - create jobs

Invest in the market - capital drives growth Pay for your parent's medical insurance - health care improves

Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean - or else ....

Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.

If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of trickling out a puny $1000.

00 ( "vote buy" )

If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+!

As for AIG - liquidate it.

Sell off its parts and pieces

Let American General go back to being American General.


Sell off the real estate.


Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.


Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't.


Sure it's a crazy idea that can "never work." Because it would fix the problem and remove the political power from the elected political dirt-bags.


But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!

How do you spell Economic Boom?

I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion We Deserve It Divided up amongst us more than do the geniuses at AIG or in Washington DC.


And remember, The Family plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam for the elected political dirt-bags to piss away on pork.

Dumbest idea i've ever heard It would make the american dollar meaningless. Most people on here would spend it on the black market and it wouldn't help the economy at all

[pharmboy]

The government knows that 99% of people that work are too busy to follow

what the fuck is going on and 80% of the 1% thats left get that eyes glazed

over look when anybody talks about the economy for more than 5 min.

I think this is just a last ditch attempt by Bush to ripoff the taxpayer.

After we all pay this $ 700 Billion who keeps track of where it goes and

what for? Or is it like all the rest of the billions thrown at the Bush Administration

, It just evaporates and no body knows where it went or what for.

Twenty three Billion are already AWOL that was suppose to be for Iraq

who knows how much of this 700 will go missing.

[OxyContinuously]

Shoot me in the fucking head why don’t you?!…

someone, please!

[NV12]

You got the whole idea of whats going on wrong. Well kinda. The housing market had something to do with it, BUT it was the investments corps. that did the lending and tried to make too much profit. Not to mention other fundemental flaws in their buisnesses. They made bad buisness deciosions and the result is failur. Not to mentio the way these slime were making moner. They deserve to lose and let the next brighter firms step up. Those are the reasons we should not get involved. It will however create a new inflation that will be a short but "faux" boom. That will lead to the same shit in the near history.

Edit: Directed at op didnt read all other posts.

100% agreed... I think you're right on.

[nick]

For a first class recession,

Mix,

Greed.

a total lack of meaningful regulation of financial markets.

Denial.

Derivatives.



Oh and 700 billion is just a bit of pump priming.It will not cover the negative equity generated by sub prime


But don't panic.Soon the Chinese will buy the U.S. for $5 and a couple of egg rolls.

and Hannah,you don't know what you're talking about.Without assistance the markets will collapse and you'll get to see what the great depression was like first hand.

.

[southernbelle]

When the depression hits, we're moving in next door. Don't worry Nick, we'll bring the smoker (and all the bbq sauce I can fit in my suitcase).

[pharmboy]

I would go for that Nick. These southrners know how to BBQ like no

one else. I always wanted to open up a BBQ joint up north here but cant

find anybody to put up the front money.

[nick]

Sure,we could go into business,maybe call it Ol' Nick's greasy pig.

SB,I could pay you and D with percs and pulled pork.

[SeVeN]

Sure,we could go into business,maybe call it Ol' Nick's greasy pig.

SB,I could pay you and D with percs and pulled pork.


How bout some deep frying. I love it, and Ill take percs as payment.

[southernbelle]

Well, I can't deep-fry, so that'll be your job seven. Sounds like a sweet deal to me, but remember, we have to find a picture of a big ole fat, happy pig to put on top of the restaurant. (that's one way to know if the q's any good) Maybe one dressed up in a top hat and tails?

[pharmboy]

Hey the U.S. could sell BBQ to the Middle East to make money to bail out

the banks and financial institutions. Red White and Blue BBQ.

Don't be a terrorist, Suck a pig !

[pharmboy]

I'v Got It ! They need $ 700 Billion for the bail out ?

How much does the DEA cost to run ?

Who the fuck needs it ? Cash in the DEA.:jumping-s

[bored in sofl]

Can we have all our seized drugs back

[nick]

"This sucker could go down." George Bush's "in-depth" analysis of the present economic crisis.

[bigNasty]

"This sucker could go down." George Bush's "in-depth" analysis of the present economic crisis.
He's a fuckin retard(no offense to retards). I think when all is said and done in 100 yrs, he'll be known as the worst US president of all time

[nick]

He's a fuckin retard(no offense to retards). I think when all is said and done in 100 yrs, he'll be known as the worst US president of all time

Nixon?????????

[Narkotikon]

For the stupid ass mortgage you picked up that you couldn’t pay for? You’re taking the money from my SSI invoice and Pay Check…Now you as a president want us to fork over more money from an already excused system that is broken down IE. The taxpayer IE. ME!!…Shoot me in the fucking head why don’t you?!…Oh and by the way the majority of YOUR PARTY didn’t agree to this ‘deal’ you cut without there say-so…Now you expect US to clean up your shit?! WTF?! I say let those who had the homes they never could pay for should be forced to pay up or LOSE THERE HOMES!!! No one fucking bailed my family out when we nearly lost ours! Heck no, we had to bust our asses and pay it off, the rest of you mucks who don’t want to pay up or can’t afford it oh fucking well…Pay up or GTFO…Don’t make us suffer for your dim-witted error(s)…

It's not that they purposefully picked houses that they knew they couldn't afford. It's that they chose to get Adjustable Rate Mortgages (which at the time they got them were decent), that are now so unaffordable because of sky-high interest rates, that they can't afford even the interest payments. Plus, I'm sure a lot of them bought into the McMansion theory that American's should have a big a house as possible. But it's not entirely their fault, it's the interest rates. You make it sound like the people went into this knowing what would happen. That's not true. Yes, they should have refinanced with a Fixed-Rate mortgage when the interest rates on those were still good, but they didn't. They didn't know what would happen. Sure, common sense should have played a part in it, but you can't blame the whole thing on the homeowners. They were just doing what they thought was a good deal (and at that time it was).

best idea yet.

Hell yeah! I'd kill to live in the UK. I've always wanted to live in England. I guess Canada is the next best thing. More economical and realistic. My views just don't sync up with those in the US currently. Plus, not to be too big of a snob, but I've always thought of Europe as being cultured and progressive. I consider most of the US to be full of ignorant red-necks. I hate that. YAY! for Europe!

[LorTabitha]

I guess Canada is the next best thing. More economical and realistic.

Can any of our Canadian Opiophiles explain what the requirements are in order to move to Canada (permanently) from the US? How difficult is it to become a Canadian citizen? What is the job market like where you reside?

Thanks! :D

[bronyraur]

oh i thought we were talking about bales of hay. i have hear of this bail out plan tho.

I saw that too...had to correct the title.

That shit drives me nuts.

[Narkotikon]

^^^^^^^ Thanks for combining both of my threads. Sometimes I'll post to the original OP's question, then I'll re-read the thread and see something I didn't see first, and make another. I know it's annoying. But, thanks for combining them.

[Saint]

Plus, not to be too big of a snob, but I've always thought of Europe as being cultured and progressive. I consider most of the US to be full of ignorant red-necks. I hate that. YAY! for Europe!

Amen. I'm very happy to be European..

[nick]

Amen. I'm very happy to be European..

Me too,but it's not perfect.......no good cheeseburgers in Europe.

[SeVeN]

Don't be so happy. The truth is we will become closer like you guys in the near future (I believe). And while the euro is strong I dislike your government almost as much as mine. Only because my government super sucks and cant figure out simple concepts.

[nick]

Don't be so happy. The truth is we will become closer like you guys in the near future (I believe). And while the euro is strong I dislike your government almost as much as mine. Only because my government super sucks and cant figure out simple concepts.

I don't consider Europe better than the U.S. and I don't consider,let's say ,Iran or Russia worse.

They're all just different.

[KiloByte]

Hell yeah! I'd kill to live in the UK. I've always wanted to live in England. I guess Canada is the next best thing. More economical and realistic. My views just don't sync up with those in the US currently. Plus, not to be too big of a snob, but I've always thought of Europe as being cultured and progressive. I consider most of the US to be full of ignorant red-necks. I hate that. YAY! for Europe!

Europe would be a very nice place to live if it wasn't a socialist bureaucracy destroying itself from the inside out. Don't be influenced by Michael Moore's liberal propaganda, it is not as rosy as he makes things out to be. The same can be said about Canada's healthcare system.

[SurfRat]

I can think of a few places I would like to live but in practical terms it's either Europe, the East Coast or the West Coast.

But I could go back to Britain. And I haven't yet and don't give it too much thought. Europe is carrying a lot of the same burdens we have, plenty of yokels and hillbillies too.

And let's be honest, Canada is just too fucking cold.

[SynthMorph]

He's a fuckin retard(no offense to retards). I think when all is said and done in 100 yrs, he'll be known as the worst US president of all time

Or he will be known as the last US President. Even though the election are coming up I still get scared he's going to pull one more fast one, seize total power and become President indefinately. Kind of like Russia's Putin. The gap between the leaders' thinking between those two countries is becoming almost non existent.

It's funny how a lot of Americans still think Obama is going to be some kind of saviour and they don't understand that the government is not run by the president but by the wealthiest, most powerful people and they run it from the shadows. Different president, same agenda.

These people have the ability to start wars, cause famines and crash markets. The American people are being manipulated and they don't even realize it. The are being told how to think, how to act, how to dress, what to get angry about, what to get excited about. This is what happens when the media is owned by a few corportations and 1% of the population controls over 50% of the wealth. To put this into perspective the richest 120 people in the world have more wealth than the poorest 2.2 billion people combined (30% of world population). There hasn't been this much inequality since the days of kings and serfdom, or perhaps those days never ended, they just suckered people into believing they did.

You guys neeed to get angry about this blatant corruption and inequality. The game is rigged in their favour because they made the game. It was only made to benefit those on the very top and to keep those at the bottom down. The average hard working Joe has no chance yet he believes the lie that he will one day acheive the American Dream. He believes the lie he deserves where he is because he didn't work hard enough, slaving away for mere crumbs. They keep him distracted with TV shows, football, movies, magazines, beer and cigarettes. They keep him tired with 60-80 hour work weeks with 5 hours sleep a night for minor susbsistence pay. They want you tired, distracted, demoralized, unhealthy, uneducated and without resources so that you don't have the will or ability to react to the robbery going on before your eyes. The government doesn't care about you; they lie to you, manipulate you, exploit you, experiment with you, poison you and murder you.

[SynthMorph]

And let's be honest, Canada is just too fucking cold.

I'm always amazed at how many Americans still think Canada is one massive glacier and we all live in igloos. The majority of Canadians reside near the border between the US and Canada. A large proportion of Canadians that live in southern Ontario are actually living in a climate more southern than the northern part of America. If you look at a map, there are parts of Canada more southern than; Washington, Montana, North Dakota, Miinnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, New York, Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, Oregon, Idaho, South Dakota. So while there are parts of Canada that are very cold the same is true about your country and just like your country the majority of people here reside in the more temperate zones.

[SurfRat]

Or he will be known as the last US President. Even though the election are coming up I still get scared he's going to pull one more fast one, seize total power and become President indefinately. Kind of like Russia's Putin. The gap between the leaders' thinking between those two countries is becoming almost non existent.

It's funny how a lot of Americans still think Obama is going to be some kind of saviour and they don't understand that the government is not run by the ............. population). There hasn't been this much inequality since the days of kings and serfdom, or perhaps those days never ended, they just suckered people into believing they did.

.................


I tend to agree with you.

I kind of see the kings and serfdom of Europe back in the Middle Ages coming back on a global scale.

The kings are the CEOs and the fiefdoms are the corporations, so if you can get in with a corporation you won't be totally screwed, but it won't be great and it won't be very many people.

I really believe the problem is human nature, we are kind of fucked up, because we can see something better but we can't ever really get there. I mean small groups, families, maybe communities, ok, but on a country or global scale
it's never happened.

[SynthMorph]

Europe would be a very nice place to live if it wasn't a socialist bureaucracy destroying itself from the inside out. Don't be influenced by Michael Moore's liberal propaganda, it is not as rosy as he makes things out to be. The same can be said about Canada's healthcare system.

Canada's healthcare system is just fine. Whenever I've had a problem its always been treated immediately in a professional manner. We don't have to pay to receive medical care, every industrialized country is like this except America. It's kind of sad, the wealthiest nation on earth can not provide some form of healthcare for its people. Instead they spend insane amounts on military. People are starving, sick and the economy is collapsing yet they continue to pour trillions into the military.

His portrial of the world is actually more accurate than the propaganda spouted off from the right wing of your government. Your government doesn't want you guys to know that your country is the only industrialized nation without some kind of healthcare system. They don't want you to know there are countries that don't have to work as much yet productivity is much higher.

America today is turning into some sad third world dictatorship with this huge divide between rich and poor and people are still lapping up the bullshit. The truth of the matter is if you're poor or not quite doing so well and you live in America you might as well be living in any third world country. America has the highest crime rates and highest percent of population in jail. The place is really in a big mess right now and it frightens me that such a gigantic military power is in the hands of some corrupt police state.

[nick]

Canada's healthcare system is just fine. Whenever I've had a problem its always been treated immediately in a professional manner. We don't have to pay to receive medical care, every industrialized country is like this except America. It's kind of sad, the wealthiest nation on earth can not provide some form of healthcare for its people. Instead they spend insane amounts on military. People are starving, sick and the economy is collapsing yet they continue to pour trillions into the military.

His portrial of the world is actually more accurate than the propaganda spouted off from the right wing of your government. Your government doesn't want you guys to know that your country is the only industrialized nation without some kind of healthcare system. They don't want you to know there are countries that don't have to work as much yet productivity is much higher.

America today is turning into some sad third world dictatorship with this huge divide between rich and poor and people are still lapping up the bullshit. The truth of the matter is if you're poor or not quite doing so well and you live in America you might as well be living in any third world country. America has the highest crime rates and highest percent of population in jail. The place is really in a big mess right now and it frightens me that such a gigantic military power is in the hands of some corrupt police state.

Yeah,what he said.I must admit that I find it quite amusing when I read about this fear of socialism.

But Synthmorph,far more importantly,can you get a good cheeseburger in Canada?

[SynthMorph]

I tend to agree with you.

I kind of see the kings and serfdom of Europe back in the Middle Ages coming back on a global scale.

The kings are the CEOs and the fiefdoms are the corporations, so if you can get in with a corporation you won't be totally screwed, but it won't be great and it won't be very many people.

I really believe the problem is human nature, we are kind of fucked up, because we can see something better but we can't ever really get there. I mean small groups, families, maybe communities, ok, but on a country or global scale
it's never happened.

The problem is greed, materialism and this insane consumerist society they have created. Today we are living in a very sick and detached way from nature where violence and exploiting other people is celebrated. Humans were not meant to live like this. We are supposed to live in close communities living amongst people that care about us and in complete harmony with nature. We are supposed to only take what we need to survive and keep the planet in balance and take care of all the life on it because its the only one we have.

[SynthMorph]

Yeah,what he said.I must admit that I find it quite amusing when I read about this fear of socialism.

But Synthmorph,far more importantly,can you get a good cheeseburger in Canada?

Yeah I always found it funny, learning about the Cold War in history class this insane hysteria regarding communism. I remember thinking they're saying the exact same thing in Russia about America. It's really just a matter of perspective and having the wit about you to be able to recognize propaganda.

Today, in America the people behind the propaganda machine have made the word "liberal" into an insult. These people don't even realize they are being brainwashed in a sense to propagate someone elses' ideals. Whats funny about that is even when they're spouting this bullshit which obviously didn't come from their own free mind, is that these ideals they speak of will in no way make their life any better.

For example they like to use highly emotionaly charged topics like; gay marriage, guns, taxes, while avoiding the real issues. So for instance if you support gay marriage you're automatically some pinko liberal. Or on the other hand if you defend gun ownership and hunting you're a real patriotic, barbarian, backward thinking redneck conservative of a man. All this does is divide people and propogate stereotypes while detracting from the real issues that matter and will effect your life.

And, yes we get good cheeseburgers here in Canada. I like to think of Canada as the middleground between UK and the US.

[Narkotikon]

Europe would be a very nice place to live if it wasn't a socialist bureaucracy destroying itself from the inside out. Don't be influenced by Michael Moore's liberal propaganda, it is not as rosy as he makes things out to be. The same can be said about Canada's healthcare system.

Oh, I don't know. I tend to agree with Nick and SynthMorph. I don't like politics, and therefore don't concern myself with it much. I think it's a corrupt, evil, greedy pastime, and I really have no interest in it. I do, however, have an excellent sense of what's good / right, and what's evil / wrong, and from what I do know about American politics, the more and more I wish I weren't an American. I'd much rather live in Europe and be in a socialist country than in America and be in a republic controlled by a minority (the rich). I think a lot of American policies are corrupt, I think a lot of politicians are there because of deceit or because they somehow bought their way in, and I think the general populace is ignorant and blinded by the falsehood of the American Dream. I think it doesn't matter how much you work, or how hard you work. I think that people tend to run around in some wheel like lab rats for their entire lives, trying to get somewhere but never do. I just don't like America for the most part. If I could live anywhere on the face of the planet, I'd live in: England, then other parts of the UK; The Netherlands; France; Sweeden or Norway; Denmark; then Australia or New Zealand; then Canada; then the US. I just don't want to live here. I don't like the country culturally, and I don't really like most of the populace (at least in the Midwest). I think they're largely ignorant, redneck baboons, who have no interest in anything intellectual. Let's face it, most Americans would rather watch WWF than any documentary on PBS. I've never been like that, and I don't want to be. The older I get the more I feel like I'm being corrupted or made fun of for not being the "typical, red-blooded, American male" that I"m supposed to be. I think it's a crock of shit. I don't really care if people call me unpatriotic, because I admit--I"m not patriotic. Why should I care about a country that doesn't care about me? For the most part, I'd much rather be living abroad.

[jonny-5]

Me too,but it's not perfect.......no good cheeseburgers in Europe.

so are you saying if i moved to england and started a decent burger stand i could make a good living?

[SurfRat]

People are terrified of socialism, but it you get injured, the first thing you think of is how much will it cost me?

Healthcare should be a top priority for any country, what is more important? It doesn't have to be socialist, as if that is such a horrible thing. It doesn't make economic sense to neglect primary care and then have people collecting massive debt on medical bills that could have been avoided.
One of the primary reasons people go into bankruptcy is from owing huge amounts of money for medical bills.
Of course it is much more difficult to file for bankruptcy now, thanks to George and his gang.

[nick]

so are you saying if i moved to england and started a decent burger stand i could make a good living?

You'd make a good living and I'd be very grateful.

[Hannah]

People are terrified of socialism, but it you get injured, the first thing you think of is how much will it cost me?

Healthcare should be a top priority for any country, what is more important? It doesn't have to be socialist, as if that is such a horrible thing. It doesn't make economic sense to neglect primary care and then have people collecting massive debt on medical bills that could have been avoided.
One of the primary reasons people go into bankruptcy is from owing huge amounts of money for medical bills.
Of course it is much more difficult to file for bankruptcy now, thanks to George and his gang.

No they just throw you in jail...:(

[SynthMorph]

I don't like the country culturally, and I don't really like most of the populace (at least in the Midwest). I think they're largely ignorant, redneck baboons, who have no interest in anything intellectual. Let's face it, most Americans would rather watch WWF than any documentary on PBS. I've never been like that, and I don't want to be. The older I get the more I feel like I'm being corrupted or made fun of for not being the "typical, red-blooded, American male" that I"m supposed to be. I think it's a crock of shit. I don't really care if people call me unpatriotic, because I admit--I"m not patriotic. Why should I care about a country that doesn't care about me? For the most part, I'd much rather be living abroad.

I couldn't agree with you more. Feeling totally alienated growing up from the people around me because nobody else had a brain in their head. Growing up, I much prefered to read or watch something on TV that was educational. Thought it was important to learn so you could think for yourself, ask questions and not just follow trends blindly.

The sad fact is the majority of people like to follow, they don't like to think or be resonsible for themselves, they get a kick out of being one of the herd. This is why sports arenas are so popular; concerts, military, clubs, people need to be part of a group. Feeling exclued or banished from a group is a powerful deterant to stay in line.

People need to realize they've been lied to about eveything. These lies help society run smoothly. For example the propaganda of the "typical, red-blooded, American male," help to establish gender roles in society. Also starts men off in life with a certain way of thinking. Boys play with GI Joe and girls play with Barbie, right? This type of propaganda starts on the children right away, gets boys to later join the military and gets girls to take care of the kids and house.

Later on in life the boy becomes a soldier and a Bud drinking, watching football and hangin with the boys type of guy. The mindset of this guy is very simple, "Bomb them A-rabs in Iraq cause they blew up New York and you'll never have my guns, I hate taxes! Whooo hoooow!" These guys aren't this way because they want to be its because this is how they've been raised and a lot of money, time and effort has been put into creating this mindset amongst the American people.

A lot of money spent on moulding the American mind. The education system in America is a joke for a reason, to keep the masses uneducated and unable to think for themselves. A lot has been spent on the propaganda that bombards your mind everyday. Psyops for the common American to persuade peoples' thinking in certain ways. Your tax dollars at work

[bored in sofl]

hanna what the fuck are you talking about throw you in jail for bankruptcy. Lay off the paxil lunny tunes

[Narkotikon]

No they just throw you in jail...:(

You don't get thrown in jail simply for debt. Now, if you're talking past due child support or court ordered payments, then yeah. But people don't go to jail for past due credit card debt for instance. What happens is they'll spend a period of time trying to collect the debt by sending it to a credit collections agency, and you'll get phone calls and letters out the ass. Then, if you still don't pay, the original creditor will get an attorney, and they'll file a civil lawsuit against you, but even then if you can't pay or simply ignore it, all they can do after that is file a judgment lien against you. Meaning, that they'll file the lien against you in the courhouse in the county in which you live, and if you try to buy a house, or finance something like that, you have to pay the judgment lien off before you can do the other. And, of course, your credit history will be ruined until you pay off the debt, and it will be on your credit report. But, no, they don't throw you in jail or arrest you simply from not paying most debts like credit cards. And, of course, in the case of mortgages / car loans, they simply reposses. But for credit cards, no.

[Narkotikon]

I

People need to realize they've been lied to about eveything. These lies help society run smoothly. For example the propaganda of the "typical, red-blooded, American male," help to establish gender roles in society. Also starts men off in life with a certain way of thinking. Boys play with GI Joe and girls play with Barbie, right? This type of propaganda starts on the children right away, gets boys to later join the military and gets girls to take care of the kids and house.

Later on in life the boy becomes a soldier and a Bud drinking, watching football and hangin with the boys type of guy. The mindset of this guy is very simple, "Bomb them A-rabs in Iraq cause they blew up New York and you'll never have my guns, I hate taxes! Whooo hoooow!" These guys aren't this way because they want to be its because this is how they've been raised and a lot of money, time and effort has been put into creating this mindset amongst the American people.



I agree with your main point, but I don't think the examples of GI Joe and Barbie are exclusive to America. Those are just traditional gender roles, which have been around for millennia, prior to the existence of America. The same thing applied to Ancient Greece and Rome. Women were supposed to tend the home and hearth, men were supposed to play an active role in supporting the family outside the home. But otherwise I agree.

And what do you mean GI Joe? I always played with an Easy Bake oven. I had my own toy vacuum cleaner too :-) I was an efemminent guy. Now I would consider myself a "metrosexual" type guy, even though I'm gay. I have no idea why it's "bad" for straight guys to groom themselves and look nice. I think that's total bullshit. It's like guy's are only straight if they're slobs. It's gross.

[SurfRat]

I'm always amazed at how many Americans still think Canada is one massive glacier and we all live in igloos. The majority of Canadians reside near the border between the US and Canada. A large proportion of Canadians that live in southern Ontario are actually living in a climate more southern than the northern part of America. If you look at a map, there are parts of Canada more southern than; Washington, Montana, North Dakota, Miinnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, New York, Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, Oregon, Idaho, South Dakota. So while there are parts of Canada that are very cold the same is true about your country and just like your country the majority of people here reside in the more temperate zones.


But you do eat your firstborn?

Don't tell me that was a lie.