coming off methadone w/ newborn?

[SHELLEY]

can i come off methadone while breastfeeding or is that not safe?
not just breastfeeding, but i am pretty psycho
is it a good idea to try and kick while i have newborn baby?
i will be on house arrest also so i figure it's the perfect time
since i won't be going anywhere for a minute
i want OFF this shit
they won't give me take homes and i'm sick of taking my fat ass to the city every single day
not trying to make this "poor me" cause it's not really a big deal
but i was just wondering, if people did that
like as soon as this kid is born, or a couple weeks later
i start dropping my dose
i've been on maintenance since late feb and am at 90mg
not sure if that makes a diffeerence but yeah

[Seedy]

^^ Damn lady you've got to look out for your own wellbeing as well as your kid's - tricky situation. if you do i'd taper real slow if i was you - you have plenty to take care of without withdrawals on top of it all. And as i undestand it your wee kid will be weaning his/herself off as well so you want to make it as painless as poss for the both of you. good luck, however you try to do it & always know you have friends here if going gets tough :)

[Black_Pony]

I cant speak on the breastmilk aspect, but even though I've never had one of my own I can still say that caring for a newborn is crazy hard work. I dont think i could kick and do it at the same time. In fact I dont think I could do it period, not by myself at least. But when does being a single mom become easy exactly? I dunno when would be a better time, but i just dont think of caring for an infant as a prime opportunity, thats all.

Damn shelley, you really do have your work cut out for you. If you can pull off a kick, you'll be my hero! I certainly hope you do

[SHELLEY]

i may be unmarried but am not single
my man is awesome and extremely supportive

[nick]

Depends on how long you're gonna breast feed.


I'd wait and till you and junior have a routine.

The first few months,you just hang on and hope.

[OxyContinuously]

i mean i think meth goes thru breastmilk??

but i was gonna say, i would imagine a new baby is demanding work, and you'll probably be very very busy, at least in the beginning...

sometimes coming off of meth can be extremely stressful, and put u in a position where you end up over-stressing yourself, and running urself ragged, especially w/ a newborn, AND the added hassle of a kick...

if you're not gonna breastfeed, which btw, a lot of women don't; i mean some do, some don't---it's all a personal decision, and if a girl decides not to breastfeed, it doesn't do anything negative to the baby; so i was gonna say if ur not interested in breastfeeding, then by all means stay on the meth, so at least you'll be comfortable, and be able to do all the things a new baby needs to have done, u know what i mean?

if not, then taper real slow, cause 90mg isn't a super high dose, but it's also not low by any means...and since you were stabilized on meth during ur pregnancy, how are they going to handle getting the baby weaned off? is there some special things or treatments they give to babies, or do they let them cold turkey (i hope not)?

but good luck whatever u decide, kicking can be tough in any situation

[Voyager]

I suggest you stay on Methadone until the baby is a little stronger, 'ya know.
Because there is no painless coming off of Methadone.
Even if you taper idiotically slowly, when you come to something like 7mg a day, you'll start feeling extreamly bad.
I know, because I've tried it.
No matter how slow you taper, you're gonna feel the withdrawals from Methadone, because Methadone is abitch, has a long half life, and stays and builds up in the organism for a really long time.
The only way you can get off of Methadone is either by using Subutex (Buprenorphine, which is a little complicated and requires a lot more complicated strategy), or less complicated way by using Tramadol.
Here is how you can do it by using Tramadol.

When you come to round 10mg a day of Methadone, start with Tramadol 100mg a day and Clonopine (Clonazepam) 1mg a day, then drop your Methadone dose to 5mg during the next 3 days, and rise your Tramadol dose to 150mg a day and your Clonopine dose to 2mg a day. During the next 3 days, reduce Methadone to zero, and rise Tramadol to 250mg a day and Clonopine to 3mg a day. Then stick to Tramadol 250mg a day and Clonopine 3mg a day during the next 7 days, and after that, start lowering your Tramadol dose til you get to zero (but leave Clonopine, only after 7 days reduce it to 2mg a day, and stick to it during the next 3 weeks), and that's the way you can escape Methadone withdrawals at most.
If yer not enough 250mg of Tramadol a day after you come to 0mg of Methadone, you can rise your Tramadol dose to 350mg a day.
So, don't be afraid of using Tramadol, you won't get seizures at those doses (if you don't have a history of seizures, but even then, it's less likely at those doses). And you won't get seizures becaue you'll be taking Clonopine, which has also a very potent anti-convulsive properties, it can stop a grand-mal seizure, so no problems.
Clonopine is one of the best benzodiazepines which you can use to ease the withdrawals. It has a very good and strong anxyiolitic properties, it's also a psycho-stabilizer, muscle relaxant, etc.

I have treated a lot of addicts and helped a lot of addiction doctors, weaned a lot of addicts off from various opiates, and I was always successfull. I should be a doctor, but I left medicine university after a while and went to Microsoft to become a systems engineer. :-)

So, I'll repeat again, try as I explained to you, with Tramadol and Clonopine, but don't take Tramadol longer than 2 weeks ! Because yer breastfeeding, and Tramadol isn't "clean" and harmless opioid like Methadone.
So, 3 days of 10mg of Methadone a day, 100mg of Tramadol a day and 1mg of Clonopine a day, then the next 3 days 5mg of Methadone a day, 150mg of Tramadol a day and 2mg of Clonopine a day. Then during the next 3 days you go to 0mg with Methadone, and rise Tramadol to 250mg a day, and rise Clonopine to 3mg a day. Then stay on 250mg of Tramadol and 3mg of Clonopine a day for the next 7 days. After 7 days have passed, start reducing your Tramadol dose by 50mg every second day, and reduce your Clonopin dose to 2mg a day. You should compleatly get off of Tramadol in round 10 days, and stay only on Clonopine 2mg a day. Continue with 2mg of Clonopine for the next 3 weeks, then start reducing it at 0.5mg every second day. You should get off of Clonopine in at most 10 days.
And there you are, clean.

That's it. All I can advice.

[Wretched and Wicked]

Well, I have had 4 kids. I wasn't using back with any of them but I do know that hormones are wacked right after you have a baby. Everyone is different, but I wouldn't add anything else to that. Because post pregnancy feelings alone are a BITCH! Make it as easy for yourself as you can. I agree with OxyC. I breastfed 2 of mine and didn't breastfeed with the other 2. Again, everyone is different but the two I didn't breastfeed have actually been healthier. Nurses and docs might push breastfeeding on you but that is another option. Good luck Shelley. I have been reading your posts and keeping up with you and I hope all goes well. Like I said, I have 4 kids myself and have been through everything with them so if you have any questions or need anyone to talk to, please IM me and I will do what I can to help or listen. Much love girl! Michele

[SHELLEY]

my dr says the same thing as y'all- wait before trying to detox
he says when baby is 3months old then i can begin a taper if i want

to answer questions that were asked of me....

nick: i plan on breastfeeding for a full year, and exclusively for the first 6mo

oxyc: methadone doesn't go through breastmilk enough to get the kid hooked;
i am breastfeeding because i want to, not because i feel guilty or any other reason;
normally they wean 'done-addicted babies but an amniocentesis test showed
0mcg of methadone in the amniotic fluid, which means she and i metabolized the shit quick enough
and it is *highly unlikely* that she will go through ANY w/d at all
it ain't the first time it happened to someone, we are just lucky i guess
just like everyone telling me that i will have a low-birthweight baby cause i couldn't quit cigs
but the latest ultrasound shows that she's damnear 8pounds already- I DEFY NATURE HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

voyager: when you say "clonipine" do you mean clonidine or klonopin?
not trying to be a spelling nazi, its honestly confusing?
if you mean klonopin, i don't want to start taking benzos again, i am doing good w/o my valium
so i'm gonna keep it that way- thanks fer the advice anyways;
bupe, can't do that either, it literally does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING for me
i am 1 in 100 who it doesn't affect, they gave me IM bupe shots at the mental hospital a couple times
and they might as well have been sticking me with water
suboxone and subutex... i could put a tictac under my tongue instead and get the same effects

for those of you who didn't see it in the other thread
here is an update that i got from my dr just a couple hours ago:

I AM BEING INDUCED ON THURSDAY 9/25!!
!! :)FUCK YEAAAAAHHHHH:) !!

[NV12]

Have you asked your doctor? While breastfeeding is great, why even risk it??? And from what I understand, it can be passed through breastmilk. Also, considering your mental health history, I can't imagine tapering off Methadone while caring for a newborn could be healthy. I think you should consider yourself a higher risk for post partum depression....
I would talk to your doctor about ALL this.

[Duckfeet]

Yer doing good, Shelley, and we're all rooting for you!!! Hell, I've seen a few babys born here ... I remember when Nick's baby was coming...I kept worrying the site would go down ... :)

[SynthMorph]

I would start coming to terms with the fact that you might have to stay on methadone for the rest of your life. It's not just about you anymore, you now have a human being completely and helplessly dependent on you. I'd say its in the best interests of both of you to stay on it much longer so you're stable enough to properly raise and care for the child. On top of that methadone withdrawal can last 6 weeks and longer. I dont think your gonna have time to take a 6 week break to get off it. Methadone WD will take away all your strength were you can barely get up to take a shower and make yourself food everyday, let alone care for another person. Lets say u did get off it, your craving for heroin would come back really fast and we all know where that leads to, not the best for a little baby to have a mother chasing dope all the time.

[Poppylvr]

my dr says the same thing as y'all- wait before trying to detox
he says when baby is 3months old then i can begin a taper if i want

I AM BEING INDUCED ON THURSDAY 9/25!!

!! :)FUCK YEAAAAAHHHHH:) !!


Shelley: I am with your doc 100%. Taking care of a newborn is an amazing physical and emotional test. I have had 2 kiddos who are now 24 & 27 y/o; I still vividly remember the total exhaustion & overwhelmingness of newborns. There is NO WAY I could have handled a newborn while in wd's - & I too had a very supportive hands on baby daddy.
So for your sake and your beautiful baby's sake, I think it would be very wise to wait at least 3 months to try to taper your methadone.

GOOD LUCK on Thursday. I will have you and baby in my prayers for a safe, quick labor. Remember that an epidural is God's gift to the laboring woman, especially one laboring with Pitocin.
My final, former maternity and Labor & Delivery nurse tip for you is make whoopie, do the do, the horizontal mambo, with your sweetie tonight & tomorrow. Breast stimulation and orgasm and the prostaglandins in his semen are all natural labor starters.......Have fun!!!

[SHELLEY]

I would start coming to terms with the fact that you might have to stay on methadone for the rest of your life. It's not just about you anymore, you now have a human being completely and helplessly dependent on you. I'd say its in the best interests of both of you to stay on it much longer so you're stable enough to properly raise and care for the child. On top of that methadone withdrawal can last 6 weeks and longer. I dont think your gonna have time to take a 6 week break to get off it. Methadone WD will take away all your strength were you can barely get up to take a shower and make yourself food everyday, let alone care for another person. Lets say u did get off it, your craving for heroin would come back really fast and we all know where that leads to, not the best for a little baby to have a mother chasing dope all the time.

FUCK THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i haven't even been on maintenace for one year!!!!
the only reason i went on methadone was b/c i was pregnant, and thats almost over
hell opiates aren't even my favorite, i'm a damn crackhead/cokefiend/speedfreak first
if i decide i'm not gonna get high anymore i won't
hell i already decided i wasn't gonna get high anymore and guess what? i haven't!
6 months from today, i will be completely off the methadone and NOT on heroin
the rest of my life???? that's so not cool to say to someone

i am one stubborn bitch and when i decide to do something
NOTHING CAN STOP ME!!!! i am stronger than you might think
when i decide to get high, nothing can stop me, i will have drugs in my body in under an hour
when i decided to quit, that was it, i only smoked pot (for myself) and took my 'done (for the baby)
when i decided i wasn't gonna smoke pot anymore, i stopped and haven't had one toke since then
and i have decided that i am going to continue being clean (i might start smokin weed again but not right away)
THEREFORE i am not going to go back to drugs

[Narkotikon]

Good luck on Thursday, and take advantage of the epidurals and other things they do. I never understood why some women want to suffer in delivery. Not saying you do, but you're going through enough as it is, why not make this part easy?

I'd wait and detox slowly like your doctor said. I know you want off of the methadone, but it really is a bitch to come off of. I'm not sure if you would want to do that and take care of a new born. It's great that the baby may not have w/d. Hopefully that will be the case. Good luck, and when you do ween / taper, do it as slowly as you need to. A rapid taper with methadone is just hellish.

[Wretched and Wicked]

FUCK THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i haven't even been on maintenace for one year!!!!
the only reason i went on methadone was b/c i was pregnant, and thats almost over
hell opiates aren't even my favorite, i'm a damn crackhead/cokefiend/speedfreak first
if i decide i'm not gonna get high anymore i won't
hell i already decided i wasn't gonna get high anymore and guess what? i haven't!
6 months from today, i will be completely off the methadone and NOT on heroin
the rest of my life???? that's so not cool to say to someone

i am one stubborn bitch and when i decide to do something
NOTHING CAN STOP ME!!!! i am stronger than you might think
when i decide to get high, nothing can stop me, i will have drugs in my body in under an hour
when i decided to quit, that was it, i only smoked pot (for myself) and took my 'done (for the baby)
when i decided i wasn't gonna smoke pot anymore, i stopped and haven't had one toke since then
and i have decided that i am going to continue being clean (i might start smokin weed again but not right away)
THEREFORE i am not going to go back to drugs

HELL YEAH!!!! I fucking believe you! Your mind is the most powerful weapon you have. You have a strong one. Good for you!

[SynthMorph]

Both of you have obviously never kicked methadone.

[Badly Drawn Girl]

I read that breastfeeding is highly recommended in this situation because the small amount of 'done that is present in the milk helps the baby taper as well. It's the easiest way to avoid wds or discomfort in the newborn. So I would definitely give it a few months before kicking the 'done.

And if you have any problems, concerns, or questions about breastfeeding, don't hesitate to drop me a message. I nursed both of my sons, my younger son I nursed for 2 years. I had originally planned on one year but he developed a milk allergy and his ped recommended that I nurse another year because apparently it can help reverse that. And it worked! I hated nursing a toddler but I stuck with it and his allergy disappeared. So I have a lot of experience and have helped other people in real life with nursing issues. Best of luck to you.

[BlackMax]

My prayers and thoughts will be with you and your little one!! And take the epidural when they offer it!! I was induced (3 weeks overdue) with my first and refused any meds or epidurals!! 13 hours of hard labor - absolutely no fun!! Especially since he weighed in at 9 pounds 13 ounces!!!. Daughter in-law was induced, they gave her the epidural and two hours later my beautiful 9 pound 2 oz grandson was born!!! Daughter-in-law was so calm and relaxed - wish I had known back then what a wonderful thing an epidural can be!!!!

[SHELLEY]

Both of you have obviously never kicked methadone.

yes i have, 140mg/day, cold turkey, at my house, picking up NOTHING but weed
also kicked heroin the same way, multiple times
and crystal meth, imo the worst of the three!
maybe i am just super badass?

[Narkotikon]

Yeah, I wouldn't say kicking methadone cold-turkey is impossible, but it is hell. I was at 140mg a day too, and when I was forced to detox (couldn't pay anymore), the clinic dropped me down 10mg a day. So basically I was out of there in two weeks, and even then I wanted to cut my legs off and knock myself on the head to make the pain and anxiety go away. It really really really sucks, but it can be done. Anytime doctors say that methadone w/d is easier, and that they just last longer (i.e., they last longer but are way less intense), I just want to hurt them. Of course it's easy for them to say, they're not the ones doing it. IMO, methadone w/d is the worst. I've never detoxed off of crystal, I've only done it three times, so I can't speak for that. But methadone really does suck, but you can do it cold-turkey, not that I'd advise it.

[SHELLEY]

i don't plan on coming off cold turkey, was just saying i've done it before
and that when i decide i'm gonna do something, that fucking thing gets DONE
at my clinic if you choose to detox (as opposed to being *forced* for rule breakage)
they take you down 5mg every other day
and once you get to 5mg, they bring you down 1mg every other day
that doesn't sound too bad

what i think is crazy, you said at yr clinic they taper you quick for not paying? weird!
at my clinic ya gotta pay to play- no money = no dose, no excuses, no credit

[Narkotikon]

I know what you mean, and I was trying to be supportive. I wasn't trying to be an ass. That's great if you've done it before. I said it could be done, but it's not easy, thereby implying that you should be applauded for being able to do it.

I think it's weird that your clinic can just kick someone out for not paying. That happens lots of times. I've never heard of a clinic not detoxing people, no matter how fast.

I don't understand how you can take what I wrote as attacking you. You and I must have very different perceptions of the way people write.

[nick]

Shelley,there is no reason that you can't get off 'done in the future,but as I told you before,wait till junior is older and you've got into a routine.

[SHELLEY]

I know what you mean, and I was trying to be supportive. I wasn't trying to be an ass. That's great if you've done it before. I said it could be done, but it's not easy, thereby implying that you should be applauded for being able to do it.

I think it's weird that your clinic can just kick someone out for not paying. That happens lots of times. I've never heard of a clinic not detoxing people, no matter how fast.

I don't understand how you can take what I wrote as attacking you. You and I must have very different perceptions of the way people write.

i never figured you was attacking me
i didn't even realize i was being rude back!
i just cuss a lot, sorry if ya took it the wrong way
it's so easy to misunderstand what folks say online, isn't it?
tone of voice and body language are more important than we might think!:D

[Tbird921]

Both of you have obviously never kicked methadone.

I agree, shelly how long as it been since you been clean(by clean I mean any opiates/opiods INCLUDING Methadone) I'm guessing a few days at most. I'm not saying you can't do it, I just saying it's easy to sit on here on 90mg of methadone saying "oh yea I be off methadone in a year", post on here when your 3-4 weeks in without ANY opiates/opiods, some how I think you might be singing a different tune.

[Suboxstitute]

That's great that the baby's coming Thursday, and personally, if the doctors say it is OK, there is nothing better for the baby than breast milk - nothing. They get all kinds of natural immunities and it is the most natural food and it is what babies are SUPPOSED to have (no offense to bottle feeding moms, really).

I did one with a bottle and one with the boob, and the boob baby was sick much much less thru her whole entire life. And phenommmmmminally smart (not that the bottle boy isn't smart) The bottle baby is a grown man with a family of his own and he still needs a bottle JUST KIDDING but only sort of...... but I've transferred him over to his GF and her daughter so he's good and safe and happy.

Shelley when they induce you they give you that hormone ptocin (sp) and it can create some pretty intense contractions.... don't be a hero... I didn't have time for an epidural with my second one, but I wish I would have had one with my first. An epidural can be your friend unless you're determine to go natural all the way.

Why did they change their mind about inducing? You're only a couple days past due, right? Sorry if you already said.

thinkin of you/Sue

[jonny-5]

^^ i think there are a few other factors that figure into a persons success and health other than if they drank breast milk for a few months or not.

[Wretched and Wicked]

I was thinking that too. It's weird and kinda funny cause her breast fed child was healthiest/smartest. I have opposite experience where my first two were breast fed and they were always sick and my last two were not breast fed and I can count on one hand how many times they have been to the doctor for sickness and they are 5 and 6. They are also smarter and more advanced than first two kids are intellectually. I guess everyone and situation is different. Interesting though.:)

Also with the science technology the way it is now, formula has come a long way too. It is super good for those that can't breast feed for whatever reasons.

[SHELLEY]

I agree, shelly how long as it been since you been clean(by clean I mean any opiates/opiods INCLUDING Methadone) I'm guessing a few days at most. I'm not saying you can't do it, I just saying it's easy to sit on here on 90mg of methadone saying "oh yea I be off methadone in a year", post on here when your 3-4 weeks in without ANY opiates/opiods, some how I think you might be singing a different tune.

i've only been on opiates for 4yrs on and off, i'd say a lil over 2 [non consecutive] years total
i've kicked plenty of times and stayed off fer months
i'm more of a coke/crack fiend and a speed freak than a heroin junkie anyways
but i've stopped all of that shit cold turkey at one time or another
in november i got sick of shooting speedballs and decided to take a lil break
so i was clean for bout a month off EVERYTHING besides weed (yeah i was sick, but i dealt with it!)
started heroin (but not coke) again in mid-december, got real strung out real quick again
then went on methadone in late feb when i found out for sure about the baby
i've only gotten high once since going on 'done, i used heroin ONCE like an asshole
but never any other drugs... not benzos, booze, coke, rock, speed, anything
as i said, once i decide to quit, i quit and that's the fucking end of that

so yeah, i think i know what i can and can't do when it comes to quitting drugs...
and where did i say a year? i'll be off methadone in 8 months TOPS
i said 6months before, but i'd rather take it slow this time
theres no reason to suffer thru this round :)

[Narkotikon]

i never figured you was attacking me
i didn't even realize i was being rude back!
i just cuss a lot, sorry if ya took it the wrong way
it's so easy to misunderstand what folks say online, isn't it?
tone of voice and body language are more important than we might think!:D

Okay, sorry. I misunderstood. It is hard to read between the lines without intonation and body language.

[SHELLEY]

Okay, sorry. I misunderstood. It is hard to read between the lines without intonation and body language.

yeah i know it...
hard feeling FLY on forums because of this
you can't tell if someone is being sarcastic, for example if you say
"i've kicked xanax cold turkey 4 or 5 times, and that shit hurts bad!"
and then someone else responds:
"yeah i bet"
are they agreeing that kicking xanax c/t hurts bad
or are they calling bullshit on you?
you don't know, and it sho nuff is a lil bit frustrating...

you thought i attacked you, i thought you attacked me,
truth is we were both just yakkin away with no bad thoughts toward one another...
so we're cool now right?

[Narkotikon]

you thought i attacked you, i thought you attacked me,
truth is we were both just yakkin away with no bad thoughts toward one another...
so we're cool now right?

Yeah. What exactly was it that I said that you thought was meant to attack you? Maybe I can explain how it should have been meant.

[Boxcar]

SHELLY I STAY HOME WITH MY KIDS IN DAY AND WORK AT NIGHT, I HAVE A 4 YEAR OLD srry bout caps...... whos all over the place, if i dont have meds, its a nightmare. some babies cry nonstop, some never sleep. i might skip the breastfeeding go with similac and maintain. its hard bein a mom. i imagine its alot harder than bein a dad is. you might end up taking out yer frustrations and WDs and anger and emotions on the child. and i know you dont wanna do that. id stick with it fer a lil while, maybe you can get take homes after the baby is born showing some kinda hardship or sumthin. i dunno. just my opinion. good luck i cant wait to see pics.

[SHELLEY]

Yeah. What exactly was it that I said that you thought was meant to attack you? Maybe I can explain how it should have been meant.

hah, i have no idea :)
i may be online but my mind is going crazy
between excitement over the fact that this baby will be born DAY AFTER TOMORROW
and of course my usual psychosis- well, i'm kinda out of it
so if i say things that dont make sense (which i apparently did)
my bad!

[Narkotikon]

hah, i have no idea :)
i may be online but my mind is going crazy
between excitement over the fact that this baby will be born DAY AFTER TOMORROW
and of course my usual psychosis- well, i'm kinda out of it
so if i say things that dont make sense (which i apparently did)
my bad!

No problem. I understand. I think maybe you and I tend to be a little suspicious of each others true intentions when we write posts because of past problems. But I'd just like to say that I'm over that and am not trying to be "sly" about stuff. I'm generally not that slick about insulting people. If someone says or does something to make me mad, they generally know it. So, I promise that whatever I write isn't meant to be mean or attacking you. If I ever did feel that way, I'd make it clear. So hopefully this will put both of our minds at ease. I have nothing against you. I can only imagine what it must be like to have raging hormones on top of a mental problem like bipolar / schizophrenia. I wouldn't want to imagine that. It must suck, and I think you're doing the best you can. But, again, I'm not trying to be mean or rude when I write things. I'll try my best to explain if need be.

[Voyager]

Wow, this thread goes so quickly !
When I said Clonopine, I meant Clonopine (Clonazepam), and not Clonidine.
If yer doing well with Vallium, that's okay, but during the detox, Clonopine (Clonazepam) would help you much more than Valium (Diazepam), because it's much more effective and faster acting and has a psycho-stabilising effects, while it's much more easier to kick than Diazepam, because it has the shorter half-life.
You might consider switching from Valium to Clonopine. That would be much better for you while in the story with the baby, it would stabilise you more, 'ya know.
Of course, not more than 3mg of Clonopine a day !

As for Buprenorphine, Shelly, we are fucking the same on that one !
Bupe does nothing, but nothing for me ! It almost get's things even worse for me !
And what I'm thinking about Bupe, is that it's just a scarred invalid opioid. They took Diprenorphine, the most powerfull opioid antagonist used for animals when they want to get them down after they druged them with the ultra powerful Etorphine called Immobilon (which is 10.000 times more potent than Morphine, one single drop on your skin, and it will kill you), and they took that Diprenorphine and modified it, fucked it up, and made Buprenorphine, which is 50 times more stronger than Morphine, but because it's a partial agonist at mu opioid receptors, and a full antagonist at kappa opioid receptors, it's really a bullshit and does not give you any mental nor physical satisfaction.
Really, a chimaera among the opioids ! ;-)