Any Wheel Filter Users Out There ?

[pharmboy]

So I was looking to get my hands on some of these little buggers.

Does anyone know were to get a small quantity at a small price ?

I looked on the Millipore website but they want like $ 450.00 for 250

/ 0.8 wheel filters. Thats alota chaChing. Thanks

[SeVeN]

And this is the reason most people don't use them. Their not to common around me. Or really in the states (i think). Not to mention thats a hell of a price.

[jonny-5]

i have no way of getting them, didnt know what they were till i saw the name here recently and looked it up. theyre supposed to be for harm reduction but i dont see how they help if noone can afford/find them.

[pharmboy]

Well the numbers work out that they cost $ 1.80 ea. and thats not toooo bad

if you could just buy like 5 .... but 250 kinda runs the price out the window.

[Mayo]

You will probably have to set up an account to get them direct from millipore,
and this involves talking to a person on the phone, so have a good story.
Try whatman, pall, ge, also - there are many manufacturers.
But they do sell quantities down to 50 for many types of syringe filters.

Supposedly needle exchanges have them, but I've never seen them there.

Look online for lab suppliers, or locally in the phone book etc. They do sell them.

Know any science majors? They use them in microbiology, molecular biology and biochem labs at school.
Large quantities and easy to get usually.

[metric man]

You can get them off of a popular auction site for a buck a piece, but shipping is $6. The shipping rate is a flat $6 no matter how many you buy. I was thinking about getting me so.

You are going to want to get like a 3mL needleless syringe with a luer lok on it. Does anyone know where to get a cheap one of those? would walgreens or cvs have them?

[jonny-5]

^^ i picked a couple up from my school, depending on what state youre in you could get them at a pharmacy.

[SurfRat]

I ordered from Cole Palmer, it's confusing because there are a lot of choices and Cole Palmer sells a lot of stuff.

I would get the .8 for big crud and .2 for filtering the bacteria.

They are expensive, about $1.25 apiece. Maybe you could reuse one the same day if it wasn't clogged, but the rule is, use it once and throw it out.

You *should* use them if you want to maximize harm reduction in this regard.




i have no way of getting them, didnt know what they were till i saw the name here recently and looked it up. theyre supposed to be for harm reduction but i dont see how they help if noone can afford/find them.

I think if our government actually did give a shit, the cost would be much lower, as it is they are not really available to the general public, so the prices are higher than they need to be.

[pharmboy]

ya everything I have read says DON"T SHOOT PILL"S but sometimes you gota

do what you gota do. So I figure if I'm going to do the big no-no the least I

should do is try to turn the PILL into INJECTABLE stuff or as close as possible

so use sterile everything and filter the hell out of it.

[SurfRat]

ya everything I have read says DON"T SHOOT PILL"S but sometimes you gota

do what you gota do. So I figure if I'm going to do the big no-no the least I

should do is try to turn the PILL into INJECTABLE stuff or as close as possible

so use sterile everything and filter the hell out of it.


Yes indeed.

[KiloByte]

Are the .02s effective against bacteria only? What about viruses? Personally I'd rather deal with the former.

[SHELLEY]

are these retardedly expensive things 'necessary' for street drugs or just pills?
seriously, i *never* heard about all this harm reduction stuff while i was shooting up
sterile water, narcane kits, alcohol pads, a new needle for each stick, wheel filters...
buy all that for each hit, i wouldn't be able to afford my damn drugs




I think if our government actually did give a shit, the cost would be much lower, as it is they are not really available to the general public, so the prices are higher than they need to be.

you think the govt should fuck with free enterprise
and decide how much a specific company can charge for their product (whell filters in this case)?

[nick]

you think the govt should fuck with free enterprise
and decide how much a specific company can charge for their product (whell filters in this case)?

You don't read newspapers,do you Shelley?

If you did you'd see the whole free market is collapsing due mainly to a lack of regulation.This whole recession is the result of corporate greed not being controlled by the state.The result of this is going to be huge cuts in public spending .So,the most vulnerable will pay for that corporate greed.

[KiloByte]

You don't read newspapers,do you Shelley?

If you did you'd see the whole free market is collapsing due mainly to a lack of regulation.This whole recession is the result of corporate greed not being controlled by the state.The result of this is going to be huge cuts in public spending .So,the most vulnerable will pay for that corporate greed.

Not true, in a truely free economy the government wouldn't bail out corporations which make stupid decisions. Socializing the problem only feeds the parasite creating it.

[RxQueen]

Are the .02s effective against bacteria only? What about viruses? Personally I'd rather deal with the former.

from what i understand, there is NO filter that can catch viruses. they're too small.

[Narkotikon]

you think the govt should fuck with free enterprise
and decide how much a specific company can charge for their product (whell filters in this case)?

I don't think he means that the government should go in and tell the company that they can't charge more than X amount for the product. I think he meant that the government should make wheel filters / syringes legal to buy by everyone, without a script, so that they'd be available to the public and the price could come down on it's own because of free enterprise and competitive pricing between companies.

[SurfRat]

I don't think he means that the government should go in and tell the company that they can't charge more than X amount for the product. I think he meant that the government should make wheel filters / syringes legal to buy by everyone, without a script, so that they'd be available to the public and the price could come down on it's own because of free enterprise and competitive pricing between companies.

Thank you, that is what I meant.



from what i understand, there is NO filter that can catch viruses. they're too small.

Yeh, they are tiny little f---ers.

[Mayo]

from what i understand, there is NO filter that can catch viruses. they're too small.

As I've previously explained - Yes, there are. Even disposable syringe-driven ones now. I use them at work (or did until I got sick).

Its real simple: look up the sizes of human viruses, and compare to the certified pore size of the filter. uh, ok:
See whatman application guide, anotop series, removal of mycoplasma/viruses, pore size .02 micron? (one tenth the size of bacteria filters)

If you are a molecular biologist, or have insomnia, read up on size exclusion technology/virus removal.

Have fun kids, just don't try to use them on your pills without several prefiltering steps.

[SHELLEY]

I don't think he means that the government should go in and tell the company that they can't charge more than X amount for the product. I think he meant that the government should make wheel filters / syringes legal to buy by everyone, without a script, so that they'd be available to the public and the price could come down on it's own because of free enterprise and competitive pricing between companies.

that makes more sense
syringes are legal in the united states for anyone over 18 as long as they are new
that being said, i've heard that they are a PAIN IN THE ASS to acquire in some places...
no needle exchanges in the "deep souf", just wouldn't ever happen
but i got my works just as easily as if there was one, never had a problem buying 'em
24hr walmarts kick ass :)

and to nick:
no i don't read newspapers
i figure if something in the news is really important, i will hear about it somehow
print media is dying anyways- my lil bro is gonna be a journalist, i hafta hear that all the time :)
but i don't think that govt regulation is the answer
maybe it works where you live, but the majority of americans like their capitalist church of $$
not all, definitely not all, hell we got a major presidential candidate who is a socialist!
but most of us like what we got and want to keep it

[pharmboy]

It's starting to look like we have a PRESIDENT thats a Socialist.

[SHELLEY]

It's starting to look like we have a PRESIDENT thats a Socialist.


that's just ignorant
i don't like the man either, but he sure does believe in free enterprise

[rockbottom]

never seen a wheel filtere--we had syringes with filters attached to draw up from an ampoul--so no small particles of glass could get in you---anyway i've probably shot 1000 pills using q-tips or cigerett filters--so what bad thing is supposed to happen--there was always binder material left in the spoon--except for dilaudid and ir morphine which drew up clean

[SurfRat]

^^^I think the wheel filters are more easily available in Australia, maybe other countries too. I never heard of them until I found out on a website last year.


Mayo, I did not know that. I guess it would be quite the process though...
Would the Heroin or whatever molecule be bigger or smaller than the virus?
It seems like you would filter that out too.





that's just ignorant
i don't like the man either, but he sure does believe in free enterprise

No he doesn't. Spending seven hundred million of our tax dollars to bail out financial corporations is bordering on communist.

It sure as fuck don't have anything to do with free enterpirse.

[nick]

Surfrat's right,the first wheel filters I came across were from Australia.

Oh and RB,nowdays you use an amp opener rather than a works with filter for amps.Personally,I never bothered with either.

[pharmboy]

This is for Rock . . .

[roxi*stardust]

from what i understand, there is NO filter that can catch viruses. they're too small.


RxQueen is correct, viruses are too small. See the filtering guide for what sized filters are good for what. http://forum.opiophile.org/showthread.php?t=17648

http://www.exchangesupplies.org/index.html This place is out of the UK I believe and they only offer LARGE quantities for purchase, it's meant for exchanges to purchases from but you can download the information about their products.

http://www.apothicom.org/commande.php This place makes the filters that the exhange supplier above have for sale. Maybe you could get somewhere with them.

http://www.drugpolicy.org/reducingharm/needleexchan/
http://www.exchangesupplies.org/index.html
http://www.pppgh.org/ <--------They have a Philly site too but it's not online, email maybe?

An email to one of the above places ^^ explaining you situation might go far too. They are dedicated to harm reduction and maybe able to point you in the right direction.

It should be this hard to get filters, jesus!! It's crazy, all the information out there about the health hazards of injecting pills and it's almost impossible to get the one thing that can make it safer.:rolleyes: They should make them avavilable OTC in all pharmacies IMO, same with syringes. Think of how many people would rather have clean, sharp needles and filters that can't get them. Fuck it pisses me off!!

.

[nick]

I don't think exchange supplies will sell to individuals outside the UK.In fact I don't think they sell to individuals here either.

[roxi*stardust]

I don't think exchange supplies will sell to individuals outside the UK.In fact I don't think they sell to individuals here either.


nick's right they don't sell outside the UK but the site points you in the right direction if you're from outside the UK. The sell only large quanities, like to exchanges and shit. But I thought maybe if you contacted them they might be able to get you to the right people. Their business is harm reduction.

[Indy]

that makes more sense
syringes are legal in the united states for anyone over 18 as long as they are new


It varies from state to state actually. 11 states require a prescription to possess syringes, but a few of those have certain provisions, like a 10 day supply, waiving, etc .

[Mayo]

RxQueen is correct, viruses are too small


Why do you think I'm a liar? You think I just make up stuff? I know for a fact virus filters exist.
They are no secret, they are widely used in biopharmaceutical research (my profession).
Virus filters are now even being used in large-scale production.


I provided some info to educate yourselves about the newer filters,
and even an example of a disposable syringe-driven wheel filter for virus removal!


Its real simple: look up the sizes of human viruses, and compare to the certified pore size of the filter. uh, ok:
See whatman application guide, anotop series, removal of mycoplasma/viruses, pore size .02 micron? (one tenth the size of bacteria filters)

If someone says that these are not practical for filtering pills, I would agree.
(SurfRat, viruses are larger than a H molecule)
But it is WRONG to say viruses can't be removed by filtration.

I remember when I was finishing graduate school a couple years ago, working in the molecular biology lab and one of
the research scientists was talking about filtering viruses. I said "I thought viruses couldn't be removed by filtration", he laughed and asked if microbiology professors were still saying that. I said yes, he said thats not true anymore.

[nick]

I've read something about filtration and viruses recently and I believe Mayo's right.It is possible,but I think this is fairly recent and not something easily done at home.So,for our purposes,it's kinda academic.

[OxyContinuously]

Mayo, quick quest: and bear with me, are all viruses the same size?

iow, would a filter that filters out viruses filter out ALL viruses,, or only specific ones between x and y microns in diameter for example?

[nick]

Mayo, quick quest: and bear with me, are all viruses the same size?

iow, would a filter that filters out viruses filter out ALL viruses,, or only specific ones between x and y microns in diameter for example?

Hi bro,I'm not Mayo,but I do know that not all viruses are the same size.They are all submicroscopic and are mearured in nanometers and I believe the filters I read about were nanoporous membrane filters.

Not something you can do at home......unless you live in a biotech lab.

[OxyContinuously]

Hi bro,I'm not Mayo,but I do know that not all viruses are the same size.They are all submicroscopic and are mearured in nanometers and I believe the filters I read about were nanoporous membrane filters.

Not something you can do at home......unless you live in a biotech lab.

gotcha, thanks Nick!!:D

i really wasn't sure on that one (cuz i dont deal w/ that stuff at work) so thanks for clearing that up...

take it easy

[SurfRat]

...
If someone says that these are not practical for filtering pills, I would agree.
(SurfRat, viruses are larger than a H molecule)
But it is WRONG to say viruses can't be removed by filtration.

I remember when I was finishing graduate school a couple years ago, working in the molecular biology lab and one of
the research scientists was talking about filtering viruses. I said "I thought viruses couldn't be removed by filtration", he laughed and asked if microbiology professors were still saying that. I said yes, he said thats not true anymore.


If you don't mind my asking, do you know the approximate size comparisons, between and H or M size molecule vs a virus and even a bacteria. ie. two or three times or ten times bigger, and the range of sizes between viruses? (The last to elaborate on OC's question.)

Even a simple comparison like tennis ball to a basketball, just kind of wondering.:confused:

[Mayo]

Mayo, quick quest: and bear with me, are all viruses the same size?

iow, would a filter that filters out viruses filter out ALL viruses,, or only specific ones between x and y microns in diameter for example?

Different viruses are different sizes. Different human viruses are different sizes.

A (size exclusion) filter doesn't remove between x and y, it removes down to x.

A filter with a pore size small enough (about 20nm) to remove the smallest known human virus will remove all known human viruses.

I didn't want to derail the thread, I just wanted to say virus removal by filtration is real, it is done every day.

[roxi*stardust]

Why do you think I'm a liar? You think I just make up stuff? I know for a fact virus filters exist.
They are no secret, they are widely used in biopharmaceutical research (my profession).
Virus filters are now even being used in large-scale production.


I provided some info to educate yourselves about the newer filters,
and even an example of a disposable syringe-driven wheel filter for virus removal!



If someone says that these are not practical for filtering pills, I would agree.
(SurfRat, viruses are larger than a H molecule)
But it is WRONG to say viruses can't be removed by filtration.

I remember when I was finishing graduate school a couple years ago, working in the molecular biology lab and one of
the research scientists was talking about filtering viruses. I said "I thought viruses couldn't be removed by filtration", he laughed and asked if microbiology professors were still saying that. I said yes, he said thats not true anymore.


Did I say you were a liar? Uh NO!! Simple the filters available to needle exchanges and most IV users are not small enough to remove a virus, the smallest they list is .22 micron. Here is where I got my information:





Citation:
“Filtering licit and illicit drugs for injecting”, by Sarah Lord and Damon Brogan, VIVAIDS Inc., Fact sheet no.
FS.5, July 2006, published by DrugInfo Clearinghouse, Australian Drug Foundation.
http://forum.opiophile.org/showpost.php?p=302297&postcount=2
It's their fact sheet.

For all practical purposes, it's safe to say that NONE of the filters you will recieve from a needle exchange or any that you are able to purchase in a reasonable manor can remove a virus. The filters available to users are not the same as the speciality filters used by researchers in high tech laboratories. The cost of the filters that are small enough to remove viruses are extremely prohibitive because of the type of materials used in the filter membrane. These types of speciality filters are not likely to be passed out at exchanges nor purchased by your average IV drug user. The filters available to users are not the same as the speciality filters used by researchers.


Typical uses for these filters (0.02 micron):


Applications:

Cold sterilization of growth media
Phage and virus filtration
Removal of high molecular weight proteins or polymers
Liposome extrusion
Filtration of solvents for spectroanalysis and analytical sample preparation
Filtration of tissue culture media
Clean-up of difficult samples
Filtration of colloidal material
Removal of mycoplasma
HPLC sample preparation
Biological sample preparation


Cost per pack of 50 (Sterile): $171.73
That's almost $3.50 each. It's unreal to think the average IV drug user has access to these or the money to buy them.
Cost per pack of 50 (Non-Sterile): $160.03
Still over $3.00 each and not even STERILE!!

[Mayo]

Sorry roxi and RxQueen. Nobody called me a liar.
I got the misimpression that I wasn't being believed, as I did not know there was a distinction being made
between what some exchanges had and what people could get if they wanted to try.

I've only been to 4 exchanges in 2 states, and none had any type of syringe filter. I had to buy them online.

I imagine syringe filters in general were first used only by researchers, and then became available to people for other uses.
I doubt any were developed and marketed for shooting pills ;)
But, virus filters will probably always be relatively expensive. Even the bacteria filters I bought were not cheap.

[ndoftaworld]

It's starting to look like we have a PRESIDENT thats a Socialist.


Socialism to me, isn't a bad idea. EVEN communism, if ran by a competent ruler/monarch/president/ etc. can be good. A representative for the people can kick the BIG corps. in the butt, and demand better wages for lower (or even middle-class now) people.


never seen a wheel filter--we had syringes with filters attached to draw up from an ampoul--so no small particles of glass could get in you---anyway i've probably shot 1000 pills using q-tips or cigerette filters--so what bad thing is supposed to happen--there was always binder material left in the spoon--except for dilaudid and ir morphine which drew up clean

I was jonesing last night Rock... what kinda pills can you IV (after extensive filtering that is :rolleyes: ) benzo's would be the safest I'd assume, but perc's, I don't know with all that apap... PS. I use q-tip cotton until better solution comes along...


...would a filter that filters out viruses filter out ALL viruses...

Possibly not ALL virii (not a bio-chemist, or the like, but DO have insomnia ;) ) but the BIG ones you hear about (HIV, HBV) CAN be filtered w/ the right amount of time and equipment.

I got something to tide me over for now using my new sharps (online - cheap as fuck! And u get a lot! w/o having to deal with asshole pharmacists/pharm techs.)

But a nice benzo bang sounds good. So a larger filter for the big fillers/crap, then the smaller filter after to ensure almost everything is filtered? For benzo's in particular, do I gotta dissolve in alcohol or something else, cause I KNOW they're not water soluble, and does heat apply, etc.
(Some things don't require heat, just add water, cotton, and bang! done ;) ) And I've NEVER IV'd pills, read about it, but this is the first thing I've seen where there is actually a possibility if ur that hard up for it, hehe.


Nd