Indeterminate hell

[Mayo]

OK, here is a worst-kick scenario:

Its about a 'closet' 24/7 H shooter, nobody knew, and nobody knows at the end of this story.

So, you kick a year-long IV H run, start the w/d thinking after a week or so the physical part will be over - but it doesn't end.

Instead, you have diarrhea that goes on for weeks. The abdominal cramps start, and pain soon follows.
But you've never gone this long without H since you first started a few years ago,
so for a while you think its just your insides getting right and it might take a while.

After a month you go to the ER, then a specialist, and after lots of embarrassing investigation, turns out you have Clostridium difficile.
This nasty bacterial infection is eating holes in your guts and making you sick. Sick like w/d does.

The doctors didn't pursue that possibility at first because you haven't taken antibiotics in years,
so it takes two weeks from ER to diagnosis. Six weeks since you quit shooting H.

Now you're in bad pain 24/7, but you can't take any opioids because they slow your bowels!
The metronidazole hopefully is killing the infection, but you have to wait and suffer the pain and the side effects of the drug too.

Damage has been done. Much of your large intestine needs to be removed.

Two months since you kicked, still waiting for the pain and suffering to end, but its just getting worse.
Come back next week, go to the ER if it gets too bad - but no opis when you get there, because that might kill you.

Not a bad idea, go back on H and.....:rolleyes:

[Duckfeet]

Damn Mayo: is this *you?* This sounds like hard story, man...I hope it's getting better if it is...that's always one of our worst nightmares: that we'll be kicking, which is bad enough, and presume that some part of the kicking is just withdrawals...when it really is something worse...

best wishes...


OK, here is a worst-kick scenario:

Its about a 'closet' 24/7 H shooter, nobody knew, and nobody knows at the end of this story.

So, you kick a year-long IV H run, start the w/d thinking after a week or so the physical part will be over - but it doesn't end.

Instead, you have diarrhea that goes on for weeks. The abdominal cramps start, and pain soon follows.
But you've never gone this long without H since you first started a few years ago,
so for a while you think its just your insides getting right and it might take a while.

After a month you go to the ER, then a specialist, and after lots of embarrassing investigation, turns out you have Clostridium difficile.
This nasty bacterial infection is eating holes in your guts and making you sick. Sick like w/d does.

The doctors didn't pursue that possibility at first because you haven't taken antibiotics in years,
so it takes two weeks from ER to diagnosis. Six weeks since you quit shooting H.

Now you're in bad pain 24/7, but you can't take any opioids because they slow your bowels!
The metronidazole hopefully is killing the infection, but you have to wait and suffer the pain and the side effects of the drug too.

Damage has been done. Much of your large intestine needs to be removed.

Two months since you kicked, still waiting for the pain and suffering to end, but its just getting worse.
Come back next week, go to the ER if it gets too bad - but no opis when you get there, because that might kill you.

Not a bad idea, go back on H and.....:rolleyes:

[Opiyum]

This story isn't going to help me sleep. This just makes me want to vomit.

[jonny-5]

if i were this person i would just get back on the heroin and live out my final days (however shorter they might be) in happiness, or at least not in horrible pain.

i mean if you had a choice between 5 years of feeling good or 15 years of horrible pain which one would you choose?

[bored in sofl]

oh fuck. Ithought i might of had colitis got a bunch of tests taken and they came back negative. The doc said it might be parasites or bacteria and to send in a stool sample. I've had the runs most of the summer ,anxiety ,cramping, no sleep. I never sent in the stool sample. I guess it's time to shit in a cup:(

[WarmCyanide]

if intestines to be removed and hospital stay i would think there would be IV admin of some kind of opiates anyways. it looks like you'll have to face them in one way or the other. i mean, not you.. whoever the story you told was about.

[upstate_007]

Was the heroin masking the pain of the condition? Just wondering. That always scares me a little when on a long extended run. The feeling that something may be lurking in the wait.

[southernbelle]

I would go ahead and have the surgery, because does whoever this is about *really* want to end up with a colostomy bag? I had a large part of my colon removed last year and I did have an apc pump. Of course the moron doc didn't prescribe enough to keep me out of pain, but that's a whole 'nother story.

[Ron-Doe]

sorry to hear that, wow. good luck bro.

[Mayo]

Thanks for your responses.

Opis are contraindicated because they slow bowel motility,
allowing the toxins produced by C. difficile to rapidly reach even more dangerous levels.

Once the metronidazole kills enough bacteria, surgery will be done, and opis will be prescribed (i assume).
It just takes time unfortunately. Sorry if that wasn't explained well enough before.



Was the heroin masking the pain of the condition?


I can't say for sure, but it probably was masking some of the effects of the toxins, including pain.
I can say that the H use certainly slowed the bowels which is known to greatly worsen the problem.

[nick]

Much sympathy man and I hope your pain passes quickly.

[Duckfeet]

Yeah, I've learned that those of us without a lot of money, who are also opiate/lovers...likers...addicts, have to learn more about our own medical condition, and also just realize that all docs don't see it the same way....

So without being a hypochondriac, or a paranoid, I do have to know what my scores are, and should be, liver, blood sugar, kidney, lipids ... that, and then that I may have to be either more, or *less* candid w/the doc about my opiate history...cuz I don't care *how* many counselors, or online pals see it as "just another disease..." most doctors and other medical types see chronic opiate users as untrustworthy, if not dowright criminal, and they underperscibe it terrible ways...

So, we just gotta keep an eye on things and show a little common sense...

It sounds like things are going better, and I wish you well...


Thanks for your responses.

Opis are contraindicated because they slow bowel motility,
allowing the toxins produced by C. difficile to rapidly reach even more dangerous levels.

Once the metronidazole kills enough bacteria, surgery will be done, and opis will be prescribed (i assume).
It just takes time unfortunately. Sorry if that wasn't explained well enough before.




I can't say for sure, but it probably was masking some of the effects of the toxins, including pain.
I can say that the H use certainly slowed the bowels which is known to greatly worsen the problem.

[Mayo]

Hi folks.

4 month post-kick wrap-up.

So, about a month ago you ended up being switched to vancomycin because the metronidazole wasn't working.
Once the infection was knocked down enough the doctors removed about 8 inches of large intestine (two weeks ago).
Even got a whole 10 oxycodones, a bunch of non-narcotic pain meds and capsules filled with 'good bacteria' for your trouble.

As of yesterday you're done with the vancomycin (fingers crossed), thank god, that shit is insanely expensive.
Still eating food that has no taste, still no energy, still some mild pain,
still feel like complete shit compared to the day before you kicked H four months ago.

But hey, at least you're still alive right? lol.

Anyway, take care daily opi users. Careful with those laxatives.
There is a highly infectious strain of C. difficile out there now, and it doesn't need much help to start calling your guts home.
If it can happen to a safety-obsessed shooter...well just be careful, this infection is a nightmare.

[jonny-5]

damn mayo if this is you im sorry to hear that. fuck, whoever it is im sorry to hear that. but im still sticking by my first post, if this were me i would have just got back on the dope, no medical attention, and live every day like it was my last. its just what i would do.

[Hoss]

Simply put... whoa.

[clinton]

what led to your illness? Were you taking antibiotics at one time which led to your disease?

[Mayo]

what led to your illness? Were you taking antibiotics at one time which led to your disease?

No. No commonly screened risk factors.
In the first post:


The doctors didn't pursue that possibility at first because you haven't taken antibiotics in years,
so it takes two weeks from ER to diagnosis. Six weeks since you quit shooting H.



As for what caused the illness: Exposure to C. diff while being vulnerable to infection (slowed bowels, laxative use, too much ice cream made from milk contaminated with antibiotics?).
Thats just an educated guess, not an official cause, and I haven't tested the ice cream.

[red26]

No. No commonly screened risk factors.
In the first post:
As for what caused the illness: Exposure to C. diff while being vulnerable to infection (slowed bowels, laxative use, too much ice cream made from milk contaminated with antibiotics?).
Thats just an educated guess, not an official cause, and I haven't tested the ice cream. Oi Vey Mayo. Thats some heavy shit. Theres just so many different emotional directions to go in , in that scenario and I can personally relate. Not that I've had this same thing go down but a few weeks ago I spent a few days in ICU and a few more in regular care at the hospital due to a possably perferated colon wich was literally packed so full of shit I had a big lump sticking out of my left side. Unlike you tho they gave me tons of morphine because of how much pain I was in.

I AM really sorry you had to go thru that. Please go through everything you gotta go through to get completely better, or as best as you can before going back to dope of any kind.

[clinton]

Sorry I read that but for some reason didn't put it together
sorry about yr troubles..

[blutuesday]

damn mayo if this is you im sorry to hear that. fuck, whoever it is im sorry to hear that. but im still sticking by my first post, if this were me i would have just got back on the dope, no medical attention, and live every day like it was my last. its just what i would do.

Why does it seem like I always agree with you? LOL.

I am sorry that this is happening and it is a totally bad situation. I used to be an internal medicine nurse and worked closely with a gastro doc and saw many a C diff case. Not nice at all. I admire the person who is going thru this and is smartly staying away from opiates. The ailing person is in my thoughts and prayers.

[jonny-5]

Why does it seem like I always agree with you? LOL.



great minds think alike girl

[blutuesday]

great minds think alike girl

Now this is true!

[red26]

So howz progress with whomever this is about? I dont like to make assumptions but it looked like it was you Mayo, no?

[Mayo]

...im still sticking by my first post, if this were me i would have just got back on the dope, no medical attention, and live every day like it was my last. its just what i would do.

Man, you can't imagine.
If it were known how this would play out, thats exactly what would have been done.


Even after surgery, didn't make it a week off the vancomycin before all symptoms returned.
This worst-kick scenario just turned into a nightmare that won't end.
Crave dope constantly now, knowing the relief it would bring.
Doctors denying pain meds, like before the 10 oxy for surgery.

If things turn positive I'll post it. Otherwise, thanks for listening to my story.
take care of yourselves

[limitless_euphoria]

I think we have a winner for "worst kick ever..."

I mean, that's always been my paranoia... what if, after all this drug use, which includes but is not limited to opiates, I somehow fucked my body up in some manner??? Ughhhh, that thought is unsettling. On the upside now that I've gotten some trigger point injections in my back and I've been long away from using so my body's not tricking me into thihking I'm in chronic pain.

My concern, after all my hard work, is that something similar will happen to me and I'll end up back on opiates. I'm telling you all right now I'm sorry guys, I'm not one of these old school AA/NA heros that professes to having had major surgery having not even taken a motrin or a tylenol. "Now that's a real man," sure, okay... I guess I'm not a real man by that standard. If I'm in a buttload of pain I will require a buttload of opies!

Anyway, I digress... to Mayo: I'm really, truly sorry this happened to you. It gives me an acid-filled stomach just contemplating the nature of your situation! Ick! I really hope that everything is done for you that's possible to make you feel better.

[edhorfin]

My sister had a bout with C Dificil, in Italy of all places. She was living there at the time. It took her a full YEAR to get well. She didn't lose any of her bowels, but was bedridden, in pain, and had horrible diarrhea for the entire year.

I'm so sorry to hear you got that fucker. Its a nasty little bastard and I really hope you come out of it sooner rather than later.
ed

[Mayo]

Hey everybody.
I said I'd post if things turned positive, and they have finally.

About 6 months after my kick and it looks like this is pretty much over.
Spent 3 days and 2 nights in the hospital last week to clean out my
small and large intestines, and have a 'fecal transfusion'. mmmm yummy.
As distasteful as ingesting someone's poop sounds, it seems to have worked, so...

With all the fent and midazolam I was on, I barely remember the 3 days.
I remember the first fent shot, and how it tasted just like H in my mouth, and
tiny bits of the endoscope procedures, but that's all. Well I also remember the
space suits the hospital workers had to wear as a result of my 'no contact strict isolation' classification.
My room had a small room at the entrance where the staff put on their protective clothing.
I was on a clear liquid only diet the whole time too.

Anyway, I feel much better and I'll be back working in the lab in January woohoo!!!

Daily opi users be careful with things like antacids, laxatives, and enemas!
Daily opi use and these other things put you at greater risk of being infected
with C. difficile. And with a particularly nasty strain of C. diff spreading across
the US, it can be a potentially fatal infection in otherwise healthy people.

Thanks for listening to my story. Take care of yourselves.

[nick]

Glad things are getting better man.

Oh and fecal transfusion,I don't know what that is,but it sounds really unpleasant.

[Deadfiend]

Ya I heard it symptoms often mimic flu symptom, so no one would really know if you had it or not if you were w/ding, from something like done or tea that takes longer to get better from, that sucks. Well I'm just glad that your feeling better and they got you fixed up.

[blutuesday]

I once worked for a busy internal medicine practice, and this included a GI spec.

I have seen many a C Diff case amongst other awful GI conditions.

Fecal Transfusion is usually another way to say Bacteriotheraphy (fecal.) They usually introduce normal flora from a donor's stool.

Glad u are better Mayo :)

[Narkotikon]

One thing I've noticed about the GI part of w/d is that it takes a LONG time to get back to normal. Your bowels just become so used to the constipating effect of opiates, and over time they think that's "normal." Then, when you quit or run out, it's like water gushing out of your ass. It's gross. And taking the regular dose of 2 2mg Immodium doesn't do shit. I have to take 4 2mg (for a total of 8mg loperamide) Immodium to just have a "normal" bowel movement. Doesn't constipate me at all, Immodium that is. It just makes me run smoothly.

The other think about opiates is that chronic use of them can cause constipation, but it can also cause a condition called paralytic illeus, in which a part of your colon just sort of becomes numb and doesn't work anymore. I don't know that much about it, by my youngest sister who's an RN told me about it and swore up and down that I had it because I was having horrible stomach cramps one time. It didn't turn out to be that. I don't know if I could EVER go to the ER for something like that. It would just be way too embarassing, even though I know that's probably the best, safest, wisest thing to do. Too much pride I guess.

[Mayo]

One thing I've noticed about the GI part of w/d is that it takes a LONG time to get back to normal....

Thats what I thought was going on, but it turned out to be something else.

I have been reading research papers on this subject, and have found that the very act of withdrawing from opis
greatly increases the risk of the intestines becoming overcolonized (infected) by harmful bacteria.
Perhaps if I had been taking probiotics at the start of w/d I could have avoided this nightmare.

Regarding the 'fecal transfusion', I was told a tube was inserted up my nose terminating
at the exit of the stomach and ~25ml of 'processed' poop was injected through the tube.
Thanks to the fent/midazolam combo I have no memory of the procedure.
Luckily I had no 'poop burps' after, which I imagine would leave a real shitty taste in your mouth :rolleyes:

I'm just glad to be feeling better, not in pain and off the vancomycin.
If you think a H habit is expensive, try a gram a day of vancomycin while being too sick to work.

It will take me years to recover from this.
I lost ~40 pounds of muscle during the first 6 weeks of w/d and being sick. I doubt I'll ever get it all back.

[Narkotikon]

Glad you're feeling better. I had no idea there was such a thing as a "fecal transplant" though. There was something like that done on Grey's Anatomy a few weeks ago, and I thought it was something they made up for drama / entertainment. That would suck if you had shit burps. EWWWW Gross. Glad that didn't happen. Anyway, glad you're feeling better.