Papaver setigerum - the other opium poppy

[Paregoric Kid]

Papaver setigerum is one of the only other poppies that has been proven to produce morphine. it is speculated that this is the plant that the opium poppy evolved from. morphine is the main alkaloid followed by lesser amounts of thebaine and papaverine, codeine, etc. there is not as much morphine as in P. somniferum. has anyone heard of people smoking the opium from P. setigerum? it sounds like it's worth trying to grow, it isn't illegal to grow here in the US.
http://www.poppies.org/news/9950200651486.shtml
Alkaloidal Analyses of Opium from Papaver setigerum DC.

Experiment I
Morphine 5.1
Codeine 0.9
Thebaine 2.1
Papaverine 1.9
Narcotine 0.1

Experiment II
Morphine 7.3
Codeine 0.8
Thebaine 1.6
Papaverine 2.6
Narcotine 0.1

[antony]

Yes, but what does it all mean Bazel?

http://www.on2.com/cms-data/images/Austin_Powers_512k_standard.JPG

[HistoryofMadness]

Is this the oriental poppy? I've recently read this was the poppy (oriental) that Edgar Allan Poe got into.

I have access to oriental poppies, but wasn't going to get into them for my arrangement if they were useless, or I mean, ugly in an arrangement... Anybody?

-H

[skeletontea]

(To HistoryofMadness): The oriental poppy is Papaver orientale, and does not produce morphine.

(To Paregoric Kid): I've never heard of anyone smoking opium from P. setigerum. I wonder if (even after being cooked) there would be high enough morphine content per weight to be particularly useful. I'd be curious to look into it, but I wouldn't want it crossing with my other poppies.

[Paregoric Kid]

if you go to that link it shows a comparison of alkaloids in regular opium poppies. also on the same page you can read about how they crossed setigerum with somniferum and it produced good levels of morphine, check it out.
it seems to me that there would be enough morphine in it, you'd just need to take more of it than you would "real" opium.

[SomniGod]

seen seeds for these bad boys?

~S~

[Paregoric Kid]

I'm sure if you google enough you can find a better deal but check this out:
http://www.tradewindsfruit.com/order_flowers.htm
Papaver setigerum
Dwarf Breadseed Poppy - Annual. Closely related to the breadseed poppy, this lavender colored flowering poppy grows smaller and more compact than its close relative. Beautiful flowers, medicinal uses, and the small growth habit make this poppy a garden favorite. Limited quantities, one pack per customer please. #859
$1.75

[DCBA]

In the area i live i see some setigerum growing wild. They are natural, even tough not commom, but they are natural to this country.

This species is quite homogenic, and alltought not very high in alkaloids, it does have morphine and has more papaverine and less thebaine then somnis. That should make a different effect when used an drug.

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/1597/papaversetigerumcloseir7.th.jpg (http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=papaversetigerumcloseir7.jpg)


I presume that this species is legal, isn't it? Just growing it without scoring the pods or making tea out of it should be quite legal? Just to watch it grow should be legal, shouldn't it?

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/2553/papaversetigerumsideeg8.th.jpg (http://img72.imageshack.us/my.php?image=papaversetigerumsideeg8.jpg)
I've picked a few seeds a few years ago but never planted them.


A rarely seen poppy we are most delighted with! Related to the Lavender Breadseed Poppy but SHORTER & NEATER with pretty, deeply lobed, rich green, low foliage. When growing in groups, the plants will be extremely uniform, all growing to exactly 30” tall with shiny, lavender, single blooms bearing dark purple blotches. The good news is, unlike breadseed poppies, it doesn’t flop over or need staking when grown in rich soil. Reseeds!


hxxps://www.anniesannuals.com/signs/p%20-%20r/papaver_setigerum.htm


PS.Sorry if this is too old to pull up..

[Indy]

Also, the proportions may be comparable i.e. similar percentage by weight, but the plant is also considerably smaller, so it wouldn't produce as much. Of course you could have more plants per area, but it'd be a bitch to harvest enough from all those tiny pods.

[clinton]

this is the legal option.correct?
if thats the case is it ok to discuss where one could purchase said plant?

[underide]

Papaver Setigerum grows in quite a lot of places where i live.
I know that there is a small amount of morphine in it but it is very very small. In order to get anything even close to a usable amount, i reckon you would need to do an extraction which requires some chemical knowledge and is probably rather complicated.
I know that if you make tea from its' dried pods (quite a lot of them) there is absolutely no discernible effect apart from nausea and a bit of unpleasant dizziness.
For anyone buying the plants, you would probably be just wasting money.
I'd say you'd have a better bet with wild lettuce it terms of getting a buzz.

[DCBA]

Papaver Setigerum grows in quite a lot of places where i live.
I know that there is a small amount of morphine in it but it is very very small. In order to get anything even close to a usable amount, i reckon you would need to do an extraction which requires some chemical knowledge and is probably rather complicated.
I know that if you make tea from its' dried pods (quite a lot of them) there is absolutely no discernible effect apart from nausea and a bit of unpleasant dizziness.
For anyone buying the plants, you would probably be just wasting money.
I'd say you'd have a better bet with wild lettuce it terms of getting a buzz.

Wrong, i made tea with it and i got an effect, i was a H junkie at the time so it was not in the head.
I has 1/2 to 1/3 of the morphine of the somnis ones, but hey, i've tried somnies that were worst than the setigerum. The setigerum are pretty standard in potency, they don't vary much. Setigerum is the only opium poppie besides somniferum... Their opium contains about 7% morphine.
You are probably confusing with papaver rhoeas.. (in ireland they are more commom and maybe called corn poppies, they appear in lots of fields of ireland)

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/8328/800pxcornpoppypapaverrhxm0.th.jpg (http://img396.imageshack.us/my.php?image=800pxcornpoppypapaverrhxm0.jpg)

And they can be different to..

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/1084/800pxcornpoppiesyd3.th.jpg (http://img396.imageshack.us/my.php?image=800pxcornpoppiesyd3.jpg)

Not the same at all... not in size and mostly not in chemistry..
Another one:

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/4532/800pxnewpoppiesql5.th.jpg (http://img396.imageshack.us/my.php?image=800pxnewpoppiesql5.jpg)

All of these do not contain any morphine at all, but have some other effects, if you consume them too much you can be kinda sick like you descrived.
Papaver somniferum is believed to have evolved from a wild strain, Papaver setigerum, which grows in coastal areas of the Mediterranean Sea. Through centuries of cultivation and breeding for opium, the species somniferum evolved. Today, P. somniferum is the only species of Papaver used to produce opium.
Alltough:
The plant is closely related to opium poppy P. somniferum L. and some authors have treated it as a variety or sub-species of that species. Rouy and Foucand ([13] ) and Bonnier [(12)] listed it as a sub-species in floras dealing with southwestern Europe.

The cytological evidence of a close affinity between P setigerum and P somniferum is discussed by Fulton ([14] ). P. somniferum is diploid ( n=11) and P. setigerum is tetraploid ( n=22) with exactly twice the number of chromosomes. No other species of Papaver is known to have the number n=11 or a multiple of this number. This information indicates that P setigerum is not the wild ancestral species of the cultivated P somniferum, as was formerly believed since a diploid would not be derived from a tetraploid plant.But this species has enought morphine to be used, you must have it confused it with the above rhoeas.


Also, the proportions may be comparable i.e. similar percentage by weight, but the plant is also considerably smaller, so it wouldn't produce as much. Of course you could have more plants per area, but it'd be a bitch to harvest enough from all those tiny pods.

And the poppies aren't so small the normal pods are about 4 to 5 cm wide. And it has a lot of pods per plant. They can produce a lot of pods per plant too. They tend to produce low amounts of latex tought, medium of 15 mg per pod acording the studies PK posted above. But for tea the amount "of could be" latex doesn't count..
The pods are equal to selfseeded small and medium sized somnies

this is the legal option.correct?
if thats the case is it ok to discuss where one could purchase said plant?
If its 100% legal, i could ebay some seeds. maybe this year or next i can pick some from the wild. Will think about it.

[underide]

Wrong, i made tea with it and i got an effect, i was a H junkie at the time so it was not in the head.

You are probably confusing with papaver rhoeas.. (in ireland they are more commom and maybe called corn poppies, they appear in lots of fields of ireland)

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/8328/800pxcornpoppypapaverrhxm0.th.jpg (http://img396.imageshack.us/my.php?image=800pxcornpoppypapaverrhxm0.jpg)

And they can be different to..

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/1084/800pxcornpoppiesyd3.th.jpg (http://img396.imageshack.us/my.php?image=800pxcornpoppiesyd3.jpg)

Not the same at all... not in size and mostly not in chemistry..
Another one:

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/4532/800pxnewpoppiesql5.th.jpg (http://img396.imageshack.us/my.php?image=800pxnewpoppiesql5.jpg)




Oh no. No confusion there. The ones i was talking about in my post were definitely setigerum, mate.
I know what rhoes look like too - their pods are miniscule, i don't know who would consider them to have ANY morphine content at all.
And i'm SURE i'm not the only one who feels that way about setigerum, by the way.
Maybe you got lucky with the strain though. I presume you live somewhere in Spain or Portugal? Where the climate is probably a lot more suited to higher alkaloid content for setigerum? i don't know :confused:

[DCBA]

Oh no. No confusion there. The ones i was talking about in my post were definitely setigerum, mate.
I know what rhoes look like too - their pods are miniscule, i don't know who would consider them to have ANY morphine content at all.
And i'm SURE i'm not the only one who feels that way about setigerum, by the way.
Maybe you got lucky with the strain though. I presume you live somewhere in Spain or Portugal? Where the climate is probably a lot more suited to higher alkaloid content for setigerum? i don't know :confused:

Yeah, even somnis if watered after flowering will decrease alkaloid % a great deal. Maybe yours setigerum were watered a lot!?! don't know, but read the reports Paregoric Kid has posted. It says in there about the alkaloid content of seti..
Lots of sunshine here.. ;)

[Paregoric Kid]

I am considering buying some seeds but I haven't heard very good things. would like to obtain some seeds from a place it grows natural. I think the fact that it isn't getting any attention from law enforcement, the DEA even said it is no concern to them, and it is technically legal to at least grow more than makes up for the smaller yields of morphine it produces. this is the same situation that exists with san pedro cacti, they contain mescaline, a controlled substance, but the cactus itself isn't illegal to grow. just don't get caught manufacturing large quantities of a product containing the "opium" exclusively.

[tomalock]

I am considering buying some seeds but I haven't heard very good things. would like to obtain some seeds from a place it grows natural. I think the fact that it isn't getting any attention from law enforcement, the DEA even said it is no concern to them, and it is technically legal to at least grow more than makes up for the smaller yields of morphine it produces. this is the same situation that exists with san pedro cacti, they contain mescaline, a controlled substance, but the cactus itself isn't illegal to grow. just don't get caught manufacturing large quantities of a product containing the "opium" exclusively.


Growing/possessing opium producing poppies in the USA is illegal, any part of the plant is illegal, only the seeds are legal. The DEA does infact know many people grow them and they have stated it isn't a problem (drug problem that is). But sometimes you see cops busting someone for growing them, but it doesn't happen often unless you decide to grow a field.

Now with that said, I do grow them every year for the pain relief of nerve damage in my spine and it does work, granted I don't get much but I only use it when it is really needed. <g>

later....

[clinton]

you grow the smaller variety tomalock or do you grow somni?

[Paregoric Kid]

Growing/possessing opium producing poppies in the USA is illegal, any part of the plant is illegal, only the seeds are legal. The DEA does infact know many people grow them and they have stated it isn't a problem (drug problem that is). But sometimes you see cops busting someone for growing them, but it doesn't happen often unless you decide to grow a field.

Now with that said, I do grow them every year for the pain relief of nerve damage in my spine and it does work, granted I don't get much but I only use it when it is really needed. <g>

later....

not true, look at the san pedro cacti situation. the Controlled Substance Act defines opium as papaver somniferum, that has a different chromosome count, I think 2 extra so it would only be illegal to harvest the morphine, just like its considered manufacturing a controlled substance when you extract mescaline from san pedro or peruvian torch cacti.

Controlled Substances Act
PART A - INTRODUCTORY PROVISIONS



(19) The term ''opium poppy'' means the plant of the species Papaver somniferum L., except the seed thereof.
(20) The term ''poppy straw'' means all parts, except the seeds, of the opium poppy, after mowing.