SUCCESS for Jacky...well, sort of....

[jacky]

Hey folks...

last nights research turned up something good I think around 2 am.

I found a report of a blend of chinese herbs that seems to help opiate withdrawl.

better yet, they report the ingredients.
this isnt a patent medicine yet, the herbs were chosen by scientists for their suspected/known efficacy in treating withdrawl from opiates.

the full report cost me 25$, but it was worth it.

there are a few herbs in there that I suspect might have been used in Heantos...

the aconite species that I have been talking about in previous posts, kappa opioid, tolerance reducer.
cats claw, corydalis, and then two other plants that I really know nothing about.

well, once I get this all written up into a better report, I will divulge all ingredients. I dont believe keeping things secret helps anyone but the man out for pure profit.

one of the two plants that I dont really have alot of knowledge into, is a weak opioid agonist, and a stronger dopaminergic agonist.

take these 5 plants, 3 of which I have consumed before on multiple occasions (though not taken together generally) and add to them some of the known ingredients from heantos:
cinnamon
liqorice
ginger

and maybe include the classic "catuama" recipe of
ginger
guarana
ptychopetalum olacoides
catuaba

and there could be something to this blend.

"catuama" is known to be cross tolerant with morphine according to one study.
"catuama" is a trademarked brand name in Brazil, but I have created my own blend, and also phytoextractum sells a similiar recipe.

creating a 12 ingredient herb mixture might be a bit complicated.
the aconite HAS to be boiled for a few hours, to detoxify it a bit. but aconite is still deadly toxic in large doses even when properly prepared.
I properly prepared the aconite root that I have, and tested it for toxicity...I noticed no ill effects consuming a daily regimine dose.

so the list goes as such

aconite
cats claw
corydalis
two other species which I will list in a few days.

add to that possibly some of the known "heantos" ingredients
ginger
liqorice
cinnamon

and then possibly use the "KKatuama" like recipe

the report stated very strong interaction with acupuncture and the herbal mixture...

almost worked as well as dynorphin. enkelaphin, and other peptides.

it seems about every 1-3 months I will get motivation to do some late night sleuthing, and usually, I will turn up some report on a herb that is new to me that has opioid interaction, or seems to help withdrawl anyway with no known mechanism to explain.

the best thing about this mixture, is that ALL the ingredients are approved by the FDA for consumption as dietary supplements in the USA.
that means that I could market this mixture with fair and extensive health warnings, and not claim that it is used to cure or treat any condition.
peoples own research could turn up the information that leads them to use the product in whatever way they see fit.
and some people might actually benefit from the mixture.

I reckon it will cost me a few hundred at least to create the needed formulation ingredients for a herbal concoction, I do have almost half the ingredients on hand though at this moment.

and I could always leave the aconite material out of the mixture. that could always be taken on its own as a supplement.
the kkatuama mixture could be kept seperate as well, maybe taken only in the morning.

its possible that a slow reduction of opiates could be achieved, with slight increases of doses of this herb blend.
somewhere in there for some people could be a fairly easy detox.

I would love to know the actual ingredients of Heantos in full. but since some people died at the clinic that was distributing the non approved medicine, and they tried to cover that up, things have gone sour for the owner of the recipe.
companys that helped him initially make larger standardized batches of heantos might benefit from that, but the bad press already might have been enough to kill the project.

this herb blend might be as close as I will ever get!

I will report back on this subject soon.

-J

[Nate]

Definetly report back Jacky! Very intriguing!

Your hard work is very much appreciated!

[clinton]

please let us know, im quite interested in these subjects as well

[Boxcar]

i think everyone here would love that knowledge, not one of us here that dont get sick and could use any and help they can get. i know im new, but id like to thank you for puttin yer money up and spreading that knowledge. i fell in love with this place the day i found it. i cant believe there are this many ppl dedicated to the help and wellbeing of our kind. junkies, tweakers, any dope fiend really, generally care for nothing more than themselves.

I SWEAR IT!, I CANT STRESS ENUFF THE IMPACT ALL OF YOU HAVE HAD ON MY LIFE AND THE EXTREME UPS AND DOWNS THAT COME WITH HOW WE LIVE. SO FROM A NOOB, THAT NO ONE OWES ANYTHING TO, AND FROM A NOOB THAT HAS GAINED A GREAT DEAL FROM YOU ALL HERE THAT I DONT EVEN KNOW, YOU HAVE IMPACTED MY LIFE IN SUCH A POSITIVE WAY.

SO FROM DEEP WITHIN THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART I WOULD LIKE TO THANK ALL OF YOU. WE COULD ALL BE DOIN SOMTHING ELSE. IM SO GLAD TO HAVE FOUND YOU GUYS AND A LIL COMMUNITY DEDICATED TO EACH OTHER IN SO MANY WAYS. I AM HONORED TO BE A PART OF AND HOPE I CAN CONTINUE BEING EXCEPTED BY YOU ALL. YOU HAVE CHANGED MY LIFE, KNOWINGLY OR NOT


THIS THREAD MAY BELONG ELSEWHERE, I DUNNO, I WAS JUST MOVED BY WHAT I READ ABOVE TO SPEAK FROM MY HEART

[roxi*stardust]

Great stuff jacky. I can't wait to see the complete report!!

[Duckfeet]

Sure is hopeful as all hell: we are still in the dark ages with most of this stuff, and since money/profit, drives most research, we are still using "cures" like methadone maintenance, that should have gone out the door w/carburators and hoola-hooops ;-)

[Papa Verine]

Cool Jacky, very cool... I would love to try the blend myself. What do you think about adding Scullcap? The last time I was kicking I found Scullcap to be extremely helpful, much to my surprise actually.

[starglazer33]

I've not read the thread only your original, the 1st post. Jacky, you are a true wizard in my book. I always love reading your posts. I admire your work and wish you a congratulations!
Keep up the great work. Wishing you well, Sg33

[jacky]

I imagine the plant products I just ordered should be here this weekend or next week sometime.

so hopefully in a few weeks I should have tried the plant that is purported to be an active opioid agonist (weak) and a D1 dopaminergic agonist.
sometimes dopamine activity can make opioid activity stronger, and sometimes it seems to run the opioids through you quicker.

since this is probably going to take me awhile, Ill display the last two ingredients that I did not name above.

the active opioid/dopaminergic is:
Qiang Huo, or notopterygium roots, either n. incisum or n. forbesii, there could possibly be other varients in use or for sale as well.

the other plant, which I am not too familiar with is:
Chuan xion or ligustici wallichii radix

so there you have it folks,
the qiang huo is avialable from various chinese medicinal providers, cost is somewhat moderate I think mine cost about 6-9 cents a gram. I ordered around 250 grams, but havnt looked up dosage information, most likely its from 1-10 grams a dose.
in the report a specific compound was mentioned in regards to opioid activity, Ill mention that again when I dig out the notes.
it is possible that some chinese chemical company has isolated that compound for standardized products.
it would be REAL interesting to get ahold of the pure compound.

[SurfRat]

Good stuff!!

Very interested to hear how it goes!:)

[jacky]

well, got the herbs in the mail today.

now I just have to figure out preparation, dosage amounts.

these herbs will need a good grinding...

the uncaria twigs are very cool looking. uncaria species used medicinally are sometime referred to as "cats claw"....
imagine very nice dark, smooth looking twigs with big thorns on them, they are flat black/brown colored, and the thorns are hooked to a 180 degree turn,...looking much like cats claws.
they sort of look like my Wifey's carved horn earrings. these could easily be used by artists for different projects.

the chuang xiong is some very fragrant and maple/liquorice smelling sliced roots...

the Qiang huo, the hopeful active in this bunch as far as opioidopamine/ ergic* qualities are concerned is a strong smelling, earthy, almost acrid smell.

I have a nice amount of ethanol to extract these herbs with, but I think using a good amount of water in a presoak will be the best way, there could be special processes involved.

I am leaving the aconite out of this one, as the aconite has to be specially prepared. boiled for an hour or so, and only keeping the elixir. aconite can be added to the mixture only in the guts I think, rather than complicate matters by adding the aconite to the whole batch.

so later next week hopefully I will have time to test out the qiang huo alone.


* Jackys new word for an opioid dopaminergic active herb or compound.

[OxyContinuously]

very cool, jacky....definitely keep us updated; that's hopeful news, imagine the good fortune if u stumbled upon the best cure for WD or something like that

[Seedy]

Cool Jacky, very cool... I would love to try the blend myself. What do you think about adding Scullcap? The last time I was kicking I found Scullcap to be extremely helpful, much to my surprise actually.

I bought a tincture of skullcap on your reccomendation and it really did seem to help me through withdrawals.

& Jacky, definately keep us posted!

[jacky]

thanks....thanks.

last night I finally tried the qiang huo, or notopterygium roots.
I made an infusion of 60 some grams of the root.

6-12 grams is considered a dose.
I consumed 1/6th of the jar of funky tasting water/extract.

I have had a low level, consistant headache for the past few weeks for some reason.
when I bend down it gets worse.
unless I am doing some stretching/breathing exercises.
this root is reported to work well for helping dismiss a headache.

my first opi dose was in the morning.....and the time was now around 4pm, so I was due for another opi dose in an hour or so.
about 30 minutes after consumptionof the root tea I started feeling strangely hot....
had to take off my shirt.
at times I wondered if I felt any stimulation from the tea, given that its dopaminergic qualities are reported to be stronger than its opioidergic effect.
I did feel a bit uncomfortable in a way....and the heat thing was persisting.

about 50 minutes after taking the brew I could say that the headache seemed very minimal....but the strength of the headache will come and go at certian times of the day anyway.

I felt no real uncomfortable effects.

but then I took the opi dose.

and in twenty or so minutes felt very somniferic. I also had the hot upper body thing going still.

it has been a warm fall here in the desert northwest, I am fairly tolerant to high heat, and I was just sitting and reading and drawing most of the time.
I did some stretching and yoga to get my mind more awake.

all in all I think that there will be more activity with a higher dose, but I think it will be more of a stimulating analgesic, and possibly with some negative side effects.

most important is that there were no negative effects, no nausea, etc. what initial uncomfort I thought I was feeling was non existant by 9 or 10 pm.

I could see how mixed with a dopamine antagonist like the THP in corydalis, that the qiang huo's stimulant effect could be blunted.

I will test this herb again in higher doses sometime this week, and then move on to working with the full recipe.

[repeek]

I will be keeping an eye on this thread for sure, and with positive anticipation.

Keep up the good work Jacky

[WarmCyanide]

Keep it mayne

[Narkotikon]

Very interesting indeed. I've got a question though. You mentioned Aconite, and that it's deadly toxic, which I already knew, but you also said it was used / could be used as an herbal supplement? I've never heard that before? What is it used for as an herbal supplement?

The only time I've ever heard of Aconite being used was in old "flying" potions / salves used by Medieval witches. Supposedly it was a mixture of Aconite, Hemlock, and other herbs that would make them believe they were flying, but was actually causing hallucinogenic effects. That's the only time I've ever heard of it being used. I didn't know it could be used as an ordinary herbal supplement. What would it be used for?

[jacky]

certian species of aconite are used all over asia.
yes the herb is dangerous, but the chinese product, is sliced roots, prepared from plants grown for medicinal use....the tibetan aconite is wildharvested much of the time I am told.

to properly prepare aconite roots, buy sliced aconite root, and then boil in water for at least an hour.
I noticed no ill effect from aconite prepared in the proper way. I also took about 1/4 of a daily dose for someone that is using it to treat pain.

I fully intend to try aconite with this mixture of other herbs, but I am not going to add the herbs all together.

aconite contains a kappa opioid agonist called mesaconitine.
it has been shown to lower tolerance to opiates, even when the tolerance has already been established.

aconite is also used in medicinal plasters, as it probably has even more use as a topical pain killer.

think about it this way, the reason that medicinal plasters utilize menthol, is that menthol kills pain topically, in part, because menthol has kappa opioid agonist qualitys.
taken internally, menthol is reported to be as strong as an antitussive (anti cough) as codeine!!

so mesaconitine probably relieves pain topically by the kappa opioid receptor stimulation.

I would also look to camphor possibly to have opioid interaction in this way, and also one of the active compounds in nigella sativa oil is similiar to camphor/menthol, its called thymoquinone.
I have a good bit of pure thymoquinone that I intend to investigate.

actually, nigella sativa oil is one of the better opioid active herbs out there. I used it for tolerance augmentation about a year ago. it has mild activity, and is a decent painkilling product if you dont have a big opiate habit.

aconite is something to be careful with.
the properly prepared aconite tea I made had mild taste, but horrible smell when cooking. a dose of the tea caused no noticeable effects, which was what I was testing for initially. I havnt tried higher doses, and am not willing to push the advised dosage envelope, but still I could most likely take the recomended daily dosage with no problem. that would be 4x the amount I have taken initially.

personally I think aconite is one of the secret ingredients in the herbal opiate cure HEANTOS.

[Narkotikon]

certian species of aconite are used all over asia.
yes the herb is dangerous, but the chinese product, is sliced roots, prepared from plants grown for medicinal use....the tibetan aconite is wildharvested much of the time I am told.

to properly prepare aconite roots, buy sliced aconite root, and then boil in water for at least an hour.
I noticed no ill effect from aconite prepared in the proper way. I also took about 1/4 of a daily dose for someone that is using it to treat pain.

I fully intend to try aconite with this mixture of other herbs, but I am not going to add the herbs all together.

aconite contains a kappa opioid agonist called mesaconitine.
it has been shown to lower tolerance to opiates, even when the tolerance has already been established.

aconite is also used in medicinal plasters, as it probably has even more use as a topical pain killer.

think about it this way, the reason that medicinal plasters utilize menthol, is that menthol kills pain topically, in part, because menthol has kappa opioid agonist qualitys.
taken internally, menthol is reported to be as strong as an antitussive (anti cough) as codeine!!

so mesaconitine probably relieves pain topically by the kappa opioid receptor stimulation.

I would also look to camphor possibly to have opioid interaction in this way, and also one of the active compounds in nigella sativa oil is similiar to camphor/menthol, its called thymoquinone.
I have a good bit of pure thymoquinone that I intend to investigate.

actually, nigella sativa oil is one of the better opioid active herbs out there. I used it for tolerance augmentation about a year ago. it has mild activity, and is a decent painkilling product if you dont have a big opiate habit.

aconite is something to be careful with.
the properly prepared aconite tea I made had mild taste, but horrible smell when cooking. a dose of the tea caused no noticeable effects, which was what I was testing for initially. I havnt tried higher doses, and am not willing to push the advised dosage envelope, but still I could most likely take the recomended daily dosage with no problem. that would be 4x the amount I have taken initially.

personally I think aconite is one of the secret ingredients in the herbal opiate cure HEANTOS.

Interesting. I didn't know that aconite had medicinal uses, let alone was a topical pain killer.

[Hammilton]

I have 35% catauba / catuabine extract. They're an interesting stimulant, a mild DARI, but doesn't have any apparent opioid effects.

Probably considered a cocaine analogue, though.