codeine --> oxycodone

[chemchem]

Has anyone thought about this going through 14-hydroxydihydrocodeinoneas an intermediate? The process seems pretty easy, the only bad thing being Cr which can be get rid of. I think you could create H gas too with out much hassle. You don't even need to bring anything home from lab probably.

The next logical step would be to go to oxymorphone, but ofcourse bbr3 is hard to get and bad stuff. too bad.

I wonder if you could acetylate the oxymorphone and create oxyherone using AA? That would be interesting to see if it increases the potency of the already poten oxymorphone, or possible adding a good rush to it.

Anyways, codeine to oxymorphone seems pretty doable. Could you make enough hydrogen through electrolysis? Or would a chemical reaction be in order? I think Mg/Zn in HCL would be a good one, not that bad and you should be able to create enough pressure to safely fill a balloon. Theres gotta be a "lab" way to do it too.

Edit: Aluminum, NaOH, H20 and I guess MnO2 and H2O2 can be used. I guess it times to extract some codeine :)

[jonny-5]

oxyherone? wha?

[Narkotikon]

HUH? I'm totally lost. I've not taken chemistry since high school (at which time I was pretty good), but I've forgotten it since then. I know about pharmacology and stuff, but am absolutely useless when it comes to chemistry.

On a side note, I often thought it would be funny to get an Easy-Bake oven and do some kind of comedy skit about a kid getting it for Christmas and saying it was "My First Meth Lab" or something like that.

[SynthMorph]

Making oxycodone from either codeine or thebaine is relatively easy. The trickiest part is getting the hydrogenation appartus and hydrogen. I've also heard this hyrdogenation process can sometimes become dangerous (think Hindenburg). I've wondered myself if anyone has ever made acetyloxycodone or acetyloxymorphone. Perhaps they have and its strength and addictive potential makes heroin look like m&m's. Or on the other hand perhaps acetyloxycodone is a toxic substance similar to acetylcodeine. My guess is considering heroin has a bad repuation most chemists don't even want to mess with acetylating known opiates for fear of creating a super, more addictive heroin type drug.

[chemchem]

for acetly oxy codone, are you talking about the 14-hydroxy to acetly? I was talking about the phenolic OH to acetly for acetyloxymorphone but I guess that 14-hydroxy would also be acetylated? I didnt think about that, i dont know the effects on that. I'll have to find some papers today at the library.

Nark - this is ochem, not the gen chem you used in highschool. Just google oxycodone synthesis and you'll find this one, it uses sodium dichromate to do the oxidations.

edit: oxyherone = my term for acetyloxymorphone, which is ofcourse incorrect now that its possible to acetylate that 14-hydroxy, right?

[chemchem]

anyone know the numbering scheme for these? Is the phenolic hydroxy the 14th position?

edit: the 3 hydroxy is the phenolic one, nevermind. It would be interesting to try and acetylate this one

[SynthMorph]

I'd say try it out and see how it goes. Acetylate some oxycodone or oxymorphone, I'm sure it'd be at least a few times more powerful and euphoric. Hell, even acetylated thebaine becomes something useful.

[jonny-5]

edit: oxyherone = my term for acetyloxymorphone, which is ofcourse incorrect now that its possible to acetylate that 14-hydroxy, right?

yea i figured you meant something along those lines or oxydiacetylmorphine or something.

[IceCold]

Although codiene is easier to obtain. I think a more worthwhile synthesis is morphine to hydromorphone with Platinum black or Pd/c as the catalyst.

[SynthMorph]

True, making hydrocodone from codeine and hydromorphone from morphine are even easier than making oxycodone. The only trouble is getting the palldium black which is quite expensive and a refluxing apparatus. If you can get a good hydrogenation device and palladium black, almost all of the interesting opiates can be made like dihydrocodeine, dihydromorphine, hydrocodone, oxycodone, oxymorphone, hydromorphone and if you have acetic anhydride or acetyl chloride some really interesting ones like acetylmorphone or diacetyldihydromorphine.

[irish]

I'd really like to hear from Robo on this one. Don't want to make something really nasty by mistake.

[underide]

If you can get a good hydrogenation device and palladium black, almost all of the interesting opiates can be made like dihydrocodeine .....

Nothing particularly interesting about dihydrocodeine, mate..;)
I've tried that stuff a few times, and even when i didn't have much of a habit at all, all they seemed to do was keep me well.
Dihydrocodeine is basically just a little bit stronger than codeine, and from what i know with less itchiness, which is good, ofcourse. I think it's just 1.5 times stronger than codeine, which isn't much, and some people even claim that it is exactly like codeine, which isn't quite true either.

We have it over here for maintenance - DF118s tabs, which not that many addicts can get for some strange reason and it's usually the older addicts with bad health that are able to get them. You only have to see the doc once a month to get a script and you're set, which is quite appealing.
On the other hand they are WAY weaker than 'done, so there's probably not that great of a demand for them anyhow.

But all that other stuff you've listed - yes please!!
I'll even be the guinea pig if need be..

[jonny-5]

Nothing particularly interesting about dihydrocodeine, mate..;)
I've tried that stuff a few times, and even when i didn't have much of a habit at all, all they seemed to do was keep me well.
Dihydrocodeine is basically just a little bit stronger than codeine, and from what i know with less itchiness, which is good, ofcourse. I think it's just 1.5 times stronger than codeine, which isn't much, and some people even claim that it is exactly like codeine, which isn't quite true either.

We have it over here for maintenance - DF118s tabs, which not that many addicts can get for some strange reason and it's usually the older addicts with bad health that are able to get them. You only have to see the doc once a month to get a script and you're set, which is quite appealing.
On the other hand they are WAY weaker than 'done, so there's probably not that great of a demand for them anyhow.

But all that other stuff you've listed - yes please!!
I'll even be the guinea pig if need be..

yeah ive read that dihydrocodeine is being looked at as a detox/maintenance drug here in the US also. does it have a ceiling effect like codeine does?

[SynthMorph]

The reason why I listed it is because it can be used to make better opiates and also its a full agonist without a ceiling dose like codeine, so in my book its better than codeine and codeine isn't the worst thing out there. Also there are many opiates out there that are complete shit like those semi antagonists like nalbuphine and pentazocine and I'd consider it much better than those. I was just listing what can be made with a hydrogenation and reflux device, and DHC is one of them.

[chemchem]

Alright, well a Rhodium synth uses codeine and sodium dichromate as a one step method to go from codeine to 14-Hydroxycodeinone and then hydrogenation to go to oxycodone.

I have not found this method in the literature, it would be nice if anyone as info on it? Seems a lot easier and better yielding than the other 2 step synths.

Now, has anyone tried to demethylate with HBr? I understand the epoxide is not strong enough for that, however the literature does have info(1) on demtheylation of 14-Hydroxycodeinone to the morphine derivative. This step could be introduced to the other procedure, thus obtaining oxymorphone.

I would like to know why this does not destroy the epoxide ring. I mean it might since Weiss does not state any yields, so they could be pretty low.

My protagonists codeine extraction should be done soon, he does not have any sodium dichromate though, i'm sure its in a cabinet somewhere though. It will be hard for him to do this, he is thinking of monitoring the rxn with TLC and his home lab only consists of a hotplate stirrer (great find!), and small amounts of glassware, one being a 1L sep funnel.

As for hydrogenation, wont a septum, syringe, and balloon work? Luckily palladium black is a catalyst and can be reused (correct? I've never done a hydrogenation before, I'm still learning a lot in lab)


1. Weiss, U. Derivatives of Morphine. 1I.I Demethylation of 14-hydroxycodeinone.
14-Hydroxymorphinone and 8,14-Dihydroxydihydromorphinone., J. Org. Chem.; 1957; 22(11); 1505-1508

[SynthMorph]

Yep, the balloon thing should work as long as you monitor it. Demethylating oxycodone should yield oxymorphone. Never tried Hbr but heard its more dangerous than using pyridine but using pyrdine isn't as efficient. Also if you ever make or find dihydrocodeine demethylate it with pyridine and it will yield dihydromorphine in the 95% range. Its much more efficient than demethylating codiene to morphine which only gets 30%-50% yields. Also dihydromorphine is more powerful and longer lasting than morphine. I'm interested in trying it out myself.

[chemchem]

Well the demethylating would take place on the 14-hydroxycodeinone with the HBr.

I assume that double bond might help in the oxidiation to create the 14-hydroxycodienone, otherwise you could hydrogenate codeine first to dihydrocodeine, then demethylate with pyridine to get dihydromorphine, then oxidize with sod. dichromate to get oxymorphone? Thats only if the double bond is not needed though for the oxidation in the first place.

I do not think the above method would be that difficult then.

SynthMorph - do you know anything about Pyr. HCl demethylation? The papers usually do it in an inert atmosphere and I have yet to read anything about DHC-->DHM with it.

I'm glad were actually getting some good scientific discussion in this thread now

[red26]

Has anyone thought about this going through 14-hydroxydihydrocodeinoneas an intermediate? The process seems pretty easy, the only bad thing being Cr which can be get rid of. I think you could create H gas too with out much hassle. You don't even need to bring anything home from lab probably.

The next logical step would be to go to oxymorphone, but ofcourse bbr3 is hard to get and bad stuff. too bad.

I wonder if you could acetylate the oxymorphone and create oxyherone using AA? That would be interesting to see if it increases the potency of the already poten oxymorphone, or possible adding a good rush to it.

Anyways, codeine to oxymorphone seems pretty doable. Could you make enough hydrogen through electrolysis? Or would a chemical reaction be in order? I think Mg/Zn in HCL would be a good one, not that bad and you should be able to create enough pressure to safely fill a balloon. Theres gotta be a "lab" way to do it too.

Edit: Aluminum, NaOH, H20 and I guess MnO2 and H2O2 can be used. I guess it times to extract some codeine :)
Look up some of Paregoric Kids posts. You got the same mind frame.

[SynthMorph]

Are you confusing 14-hydroxycodeinone(intermediate product) with 14-hydroxydihydrocodeinone (oxycodone)? 14-hydroxycodeinone is hydrogenated to yield 14-hydroxydihydrocodeinone(oxycodone). You would want to demethylate 14-hydroxydihydrocodeinone(oxycodone) to yield oxymorphone with BBr3 being the most efficient chemical for this reaction.

I'm not sure dihydromorphine can be made into oxymorphone easily. I was just suggesting as a separte project because you're into synthesis, dihydromorphine is easy to make from DHC and pyridine. Also it is 1.5x stronger than morphine, longer lasting, has better bioavailability and some say it has similar qualities with heroin in terms of euphoria. This stuff would be pretty desirable.

As far as pyridine demethylation I've read it should take place in nitrogen. DHC-DHM follows the same process as codeine to morphine demethylation but DHC is a little hardier than codeine so yields are much higher and the process is more efficient.

I read acetylating oxymorphone yields a product 2.5x stronger than oxymorphone itself.

Demethylating 14-hydroxycodeinone would yield 14-hydroxymorphinone and then if you hydrogenate that you would get oxymorphone
(14-Hydroxydihydromorphinone). I wonder if 14-hydroxymorphinone is any good itself or perhaps an acetylated version of it?

[SynthMorph]

Well the demethylating would take place on the 14-hydroxycodeinone with the HBr.

I assume that double bond might help in the oxidiation to create the 14-hydroxycodienone, otherwise you could hydrogenate codeine first to dihydrocodeine, then demethylate with pyridine to get dihydromorphine, then oxidize with sod. dichromate to get oxymorphone? Thats only if the double bond is not needed though for the oxidation in the first place.



I think this would yield hydromorphinol (14-Hydroxydihydromorphine). Still more potent and longer lasting than morphine, pretty good stuff there. I read hydromorphinol is to oxymorphone as dihydromorphine is to hydromorphone. Do that step ^ on hydromorphone and I think it would yield oxymorphone.

[chemchem]

Are you confusing 14-hydroxycodeinone(intermediate product) with 14-hydroxydihydrocodeinone (oxycodone)? 14-hydroxycodeinone is hydrogenated to yield 14-hydroxydihydrocodeinone(oxycodone). You would want to demethylate 14-hydroxydihydrocodeinone(oxycodone) to yield oxymorphone with BBr3 being the most efficient chemical for this reaction.

Are you talking about my last post? The paper I listed demethylates 14-hydroxycodeinone to 14-hydroxymorphone using HBr. I like this idea because after trying to get some BBr3 today I think HBr might be a tad (just tad) easier. You need a ton of BBr3 too, i was only able to get ~4mL of 1M soln before it started fuming and dripping everywhere. I would need an entire bottle to be useful, someone mentioned you can reuse it too, I wouldn't mind more info on how to get it back from the rxn.

Then you can just hydrogenate the 14-hydroxymorphone to oxymorphone using hydrogen. Again, I thought there was was Pd/C but I'm afraid not. Thats going to be another toughy. Well the protagonist in my fictional story almost has his codeine extracted, a few problems happened but it should still work. He will need a project for that one. I suppose he could use 200mg of codiene with his BBr3.. that would be a waste, rather have some useful to demethylate if he might only have 100mg as the final product.

[robojunkie]

Muriatic acid plus zinc or iron or just about any form of steel will give off hydrogen gas. The more easily oxidized (ie, rusts) the metal the faster the H2 release. If one simply oxidizes codeine up and then protects (usually TMSCl or MeI or CH2N2) the dienol ether (ie thebaine or silyl derivative) I believe this can then be oxidized via H2O2 and/or Corey's reagent (MnO2). I forget which works better, the references have been listed above anyway, hell just go to Rhodium's page, lots o' food for thought and veins there...

This would give, upon hydrogenation, oxycodone, and I imagine conc. HBR would be enough to rip off the fucking 3-O methyl group, like it did in the old morphine TS. BBr3 is quicker and easier, though not as fast with oxy as with codeine. Or save time and make hydromorphone. Just hydrogenate, oxidize and then the aryl ether cleavage.

Or go balls out and go for etorphine. However my conscience won't let me print that shit out, half of ya would wind up dead. If you are capable of handling such a substance you are capable of doing the literature research.

[robojunkie]

Are you talking about my last post? The paper I listed demethylates 14-hydroxycodeinone to 14-hydroxymorphone using HBr. I like this idea because after trying to get some BBr3 today I think HBr might be a tad (just tad) easier. You need a ton of BBr3 too, i was only able to get ~4mL of 1M soln before it started fuming and dripping everywhere. I would need an entire bottle to be useful, someone mentioned you can reuse it too, I wouldn't mind more info on how to get it back from the rxn.

Just distill the BBr3 under water free conditions. However, note that all 3-OH phenolics need a careful pH adjustment around 9 to precipitate and if you don't know what you are doing by theory, you must follow the procedural amounts precisely or you'll simply wind up with too basic or too acidic work up aqueous solution of either whatever HBR or ammounium morphinate or similar phenolic salt. If you leave some borate salts and ammonia you have a good ~pH 9 buffer and won't fuck it up. The solid shit remaining, usually grayish, is your base, ready to be acidified via ethanolic HCl then ether to crash out, nice clean pharm grade oxy/hydro/morphone/ine. Been there, may have done that, at least in a long past dream, though I dreampt of acetylations and didn't get creative. That was a nice heroic dream I'll tell ya!

If done correctly and carefully the BBr3 yield is significantly better than the conc HBR method. I have no experience or knowledge of the whole anhydrous pyridinium chloride bomb method (the "homebake" they do in Aust/NZ with codeine to morphine allegedly to diamorphine).

[SynthMorph]

Are you talking about my last post? The paper I listed demethylates 14-hydroxycodeinone to 14-hydroxymorphone using HBr.

True, either way works, you can either demethylate first then hydrogenate or vise versa. I wonder which way is more efficient and gives higher yields. Also its 14-hydroxymorphinone, not 14-hydroxymorphone. It can get confusing as 14-hydroxymorphine is a different drug as well.

[chemchem]

I knew I was missing something in the name

well, I think HBr would be a lot easier to get that BBr3 for the demethylation and that might make up for the bad yields. I wish that paper listed the yields they got from the demethylation of 14-hydroxycodeinone with HBr.

Oxymorphone I think would be the optimum choice, but it wouldnt be bad to have a library of analogues. I almost think extracting morphine would be a better choice than worry about demethylation.

Well, once the dichromate is available we'll see if it works.

edit: According to wikipedia, the acetyl ester of oxymorphone is 2.5x more potent and the propenyl is 6x. I guess we know which anhydride to look for now

[SynthMorph]

Oxymorphone I think would be the optimum choice, but it wouldnt be bad to have a library of analogues. I almost think extracting morphine would be a better choice than worry about demethylation.


Thats what I was thinking. Start with morphine and you get to skip a whole step. Might have to pick up some sodium dichromate myself. Oxymorphone apparently is more euphoric than heroin and its about 5x more powerful by weight. I might work my way towards a few grams. If I had a good hydrogention apparatus that was easy to use with hydrogen ready to go I'd have done it by now.

[chemchem]

is a catalyst necessary for hydrogenation? I mean technically they just speed the reaction up so it shouldn't be "necessary" unless the reaction takes forever w/out one.

Its just so hard and expensive to find..

[SynthMorph]

Palladium black is expensive as all hell. It can go for $300 for 10g or around there. Also raney nickel works and its a little cheaper. There are ways Pd black can be made from palladium chloride. Takes a little bit of time and skill but much cheaper.

[chemchem]

it is. My other lab has Pd/C but I cant just take a scoopful. Maybe.. It says to store under nitrogen too.

I mean the amount needed is in the milligrams and there is def. a 10g jar in that lab. I'll also have to find out how to regenerate it, read it before and it didnt seem too hard.

[chemchem]

Sorry to keep posting in here, but I keep finding more info.

Rhodium also has a pretty simple procedure for turning oxycodone into oxymorphone using methanesulfonic acid and DL-methionine. This is only supposed to work on oxycodone and not codeine, etc. If this is true then... well... we have a pretty simple method of going from codeine to oxymorphone with only a few hard to get chems (unless you work in a chem lab and have no conscience).

Hopefully one can try this out soon.

[chemchem]

As an update, the main character in my fictional story will be attempting the oxidation of codeine to 14-hydroxycodeinone, followed by the hydrogenation to oxycodone, either today or tomorrow. All that he needs to do is acquire some acetic acid, more chloroform, and ammonia. He will also need a rb flask and some clamps but all can be gotten tonight. He took a TLC of the codeine too and to keep the plot simple only one dot was there, hopefully signifying a pure-enough extraction.
Rhodiums method uses a lot of codeine, this rxn will use about 500mg enough to test the rxn and for personal use (or no use if it doesnt come out really nice).

Hopefully this product can then be demethylated using the super easy method mentioned before, however both of those compounds are still needed. I guess one step at a time. Of course the ultimate goal being to acetylate oxymorphone, which i think i've mentioned a ton of times :)

On a completely random note I salvaged the motor out of a broken blender, hopefully with a potentiometer, the glassware, and some ingenuity a rotavap can be constructed. The biggest problem being the cost of glassware. I have a few ideas tho..

[chemchem]

To keep everyone update my character performed the oxidation with dichromate like mentioned before, the rxn seemed to have the same observations as the one mentioned. Since the scale was so small (600mg codeine) it was a little different. The hydrogenation would have been easy if i could make hydrogen gas easier. My current method is diluting muriatic acid and then filling a balloon with Mg and slowly dumping it in with the balloon wrapped around the erlenmyer, sometimes it gets way to hot though. Anyone have a better method? I'm sure if I could somehow dropwise add the solutions it would be better, i'm going to look into peroxide methods next time since my lab doesnt have much Mg. Plus my balloons are running flat after not too long, I really hope there is enough hydrogen to finish, i'll try to do a tlc on the mix and see, its just a little hard for my character to bring a sample in and then TLC it.. pretty soon he can NMR it which will be awesome since i'm sure all those nmrs are already made.

[Dune]

This discussion is making me want to get started on my chemistry degree! Good luck with your experiments, and keep us posted. Even though most of this is greek to me, I find it very interesting.

[chemchem]

yeah, I'm pretty excited. The whole process wasnt nearly as hard as I thought (but then again, my character is working to be a synthetic chemist). I would honestly say the hardest part was getting the hydrogen gas. I think next time a solution work work better with a double opening flask. I also think I will use vinegar next time instead of my muriatic acid (HCl) since that got really hot and foamed over a few times. Remember, always have powdered base/acid around you.

Well all i have to do is work up this hydrogenation and see how things went. I really wish I would have kept some product after each step so I could run TLC's to see how pure and if the rxn is actually working.

I'm pretty excited, I'll be able to write about how my character has oxycodone today, hopefully next week I can write about him having oxymorphone.. but he needs to get paid first.

[robojunkie]

Hey chemchem, this is all just a wonderful dream you are describing right? I thought so, just figured I'd check, OK?

[chemchem]

Well its part of a fictional story I'm writing involving an addict.

Unfortunately he didnt get any crystallization on the last step when it was dissolved in acetone and dripped HCl in. So possibly the hydrogenation failed? Maybe there was too much acetone?

Edit: Just to add some substance to the story, my character had problems with the hydrogenation. So its possible only 14-hydroxycodeinone was in the acetone to be crystallized. I assume that would have still crystallized though. I dont think his use of Muriatic acid would be a problem. Anyways, way too much HCl was added and then NH4OH was used to bring the pH back to slightly alkaline. There were two layers, the acetone layer gave something that looked like the product before and the H2O layer has some other kind of crystals, i'm assuming NH2Cl? There was crystallization when the NH4OH was added but he assumed it was NH4Cl precip. out into the acetone.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. He also understands that its not necessary to make it the HCl salt as the freebase can be dissolved in water with a little citric acid.

[OxyContinuously]

just a word of caution and i am a chemist in real life too, so i know what i'm talkin about: watch urself with dichromates-- dangerous shit

also, a procedure like this is not to be taken lightly,, in other words, don't be attempting it in ur kitchen-- a proper lab with all the necessary equipment is imperative...

what i am trying to hint at is: don't do it; it's very easy to get hurt and that's no fun,, and not to be a dick or anything, but if u have to ask, then u don't have the chemistry proficiency needed to successfully complete the synthesis...

[OxyContinuously]

<snip>I imagine conc. HBR would be enough to rip off the fucking 3-O methyl group</snip>

you're quite right, RJ...HBr will def. do the trick...

hey man, long time no talk, how's everything? hit me up on my "profile."

later

[chemchem]

just a word of caution and i am a chemist in real life too, so i know what i'm talkin about: watch urself with dichromates-- dangerous shit

also, a procedure like this is not to be taken lightly,, in other words, don't be attempting it in ur kitchen-- a proper lab with all the necessary equipment is imperative...

what i am trying to hint at is: don't do it; it's very easy to get hurt and that's no fun,, and not to be a dick or anything, but if u have to ask, then u don't have the chemistry proficiency needed to successfully complete the synthesis...


I am working towards a phd in synthetic chemistry, but I am pretty early in. I do work in a chem lab 40 hrs/wk.
I mean people make new procedures to be more accessible. Plus someone is publishing something not in a journal. Most people like to prove others right/wrong. As for the rxn with HBr, its in the literature. Disapointingly they do not list yields, it would be interested to see what the yields are since everyone doubts the rxn. Being done in 1957 I'm sure they used grams of material, its actually a paper that has many good rxns and I listed its source early (Weiss).

As for the questions comments, which one shows I don't have enough chem knowledge? I don't do many hydrogenations and if someone does, maybe they know that the balloons have to be filled to a decent pressure to work? I don't. I could always ready a bunch of papers.
I just don't understand what kind of discussion we're supposed to have if chemistry questions can't be asked? The definition of forum is "a meeting for open discussion", which I thought I was having?

I'm not trying to start anything but if I knew the answer to a question someone asked, I would answer it for them, not pretend to be in a secret organization that restricted knowledge. No one would get PhD's if they weren't allowed to ask questions. If I went into my PI's office and asked "Do you think I can use benzene instead of toluene for the Alderene reaction since my compound is not soluble in toluene?" And he told me to not even do the reaction because I obviously didn't know enough chemistry, I wouldn't get anywhere. No learning would take place. Or he could spend 2 minutes and tell me that it is possible, or that its not possible because benzene can not handle such high temperatures.

Yes, it might seem like a really easy question if you do it all the time, but I dont. Knowledge is useless if its not shared, and I think blowing myself up is a good measure on my chemistry skills :)
I'm trying to find out how the car works before I drive it, even though its not essential.


Now, I'm writing another version of my characters story, he's trying it again to see if he has any better luck. More work will be done to analyze the chemicals this way. He might even try to run NMRs and compare them to known ones to test the purity. Or just risk loss and purify a little more after each step to make sure.

I'll keep you posted on his story. I have confidence that dichromate will turn the alcohol to a ketone, but I havnt seen any reactions with it putting a hydroxy under nitrogen bridges. Maybe I need to hit up the library.

[chemchem]

And I'm really not trying to be an ass or make you mad because it seems like you know your chemistry and it would be great to share that knowledge with others.
We obviously don't want people trying this who are ignorant in chemistry, but I don't see why people with the proper equipment and lab experience shouldn't.

With all the synthesis forums going under too maybe we could discuss it here in a chemistry manner. I'm a chemist, not a "cook" :)

Also, If anyone wants that paper, or other papers on opioids, just ask and I can send it. I have about 40 ACS pdfs which are all pretty good and are mostly on synthesis. I might just zip them all up and upload it somewhere so people who do not have the privledge to get journal papers for free can still read them. I will probably find some more today, possible ones on hydrogenation too :)

[KiloByte]

Shit if it's possible why would people be wasing their time with meth labs when they could be producing far more valueable opiates? Sounds like it's fun for someone whose into chemistry but not very practical in the real world. Best of luck to you though, I hope you prove me wrong.

[chemchem]

I have read a few other methods, I've been thinking of dreaming about hydromorphone instead of oxymorphone since there are some high yielding synths out there that can convert codeine to hydrocodone.
I am also in the process of finding a paper that mentions the use and HBr to demethylate codone, being a ketone it is possible. I'm pretty sure they had good yields also, I know its easier to do the pyridine HCl method on ketones too.
I will try the methanesulfonic acid method if I can since refluxing HBr is not something I really want to do.