75 million in cuts

[Chicago]

75 million in state cuts to meth clinics have been done this week in Illinois.
So ck what's going on in ur state. At my mmt we had 7 counslers & they fired or let go 5 of them due to this. This also fuck'd up alot of mmt clinics in Il. & programs they have in da county jails. So this really worries me, what else can happen?:mad:

[nick]

75 million in state cuts to meth clinics have been done this week in Illinois.
So ck what's going on in ur state. At my mmt we had 7 counslers & they fired or let go 5 of them due to this. This also fuck'd up alot of mmt clinics in Il. & programs they have in da county jails. So this really worries me, what else can happen?:mad:

Well if McCain wins........I'd think about moving to Mexico,if I were you bro.

[SurfRat]

Bad priorities.

Bad situation.

They could save ten times the money in bureaucratic fat alone.

[OxyDust]

Well if McCain wins........I'd think about moving to Mexico,if I were you bro.

I'm actually thinking about moving to the Netherlands if things start to really fuck up in my life....

[SurfRat]

^^^HAHAHA.

I would move back to England.

Better hope it's Obama.:)

[Chicago]

2day I went to see my counsler b/c she got canned. This free state funded clinic is very small, only has 160 people, compared to the 850+at my other clinic.
She had told me they are gonna drop 80 of the 160 people, WOW~~~

SO I called my old clinic b/c they asked me if I wanted 2 come back , so window is open till aug 31, or go back dec 31rst.

KKRAZY HOW THIS SHIT IS HAPPENING, SO MANY DETOXS CLOSED THIS WEEK, REHABS, ALL BY THE STATE, THANKS GOV ....:mad:

[OxyContinuously]

u know, Chi, how does the state expect people to get help for their addiction(s) if every avenue of treatment is closed to them??

in NY, the waiting lists are so ridiculous, that many people interested in mmt simply stay on dope b/c a 6 month (at least, sometimes more) wait is un-realistic...

and god help us if McCain wins--- what a travesty that will be; i have my fingers crossed for Obama, who, by the way, I am not a big fan of either, but I think he may be the "lesser of two evils," so to speak...let's face it: he's a total cornball, but compared to McCain, he's great!!

Oh and here's an interesting tidbit about McCain: he doesn't believe in methadone, or suboxone or any kind of maintenance program. His view is that if someone is addicted, he or she should wean off the drug of choice, and then just do without. (yeah right, we all know how well *that* would work)

later

[Chicago]

^^^^^^6MONTHS OR LONGER TO GET IN, IS FUC'N KKRAZY. I got in the day I called, but it was a study where they paid me every 3months $20. But this was for blacks & hispanics, so if u white u fucked.

U can get on a state funded program, but the wait is no more then a month, & u can allways jump to ANY PAY MMT CLINIC BUT I HEARD IT COSTS ANYWHERE FROM $50-75,WEEKLY.

[OxyContinuously]

^^^^^^6MONTHS OR LONGER TO GET IN, IS FUC'N KKRAZY. I got in the day I called, but it was a study where they paid me every 3months $20. But this was for blacks & hispanics, so if u white u fucked.

U can get on a state funded program, but the wait is no more then a month, & u can allways jump to ANY PAY MMT CLINIC BUT I HEARD IT COSTS ANYWHERE FROM $50-75,WEEKLY.

yeah, my dude, can u believe it? i mean i tried to get started in a program in yonkers at st. joseph's hospital cause they have an outpatient meth prog. and they were telling me that they would be happy to "put me on the list" so i asked what that meant and the lady told me that there was a wait of at least six months before they were accepting new patients that called after such and such date...

i was pissed...st. joe's is the closest to where i am, and there's another one in mt. vernon that i checked out too, but they were "filled to capacity" as i was informed...crazy shit bro!

so, besided the mt vernon and the yonkers clinics, the next closest one to me was like 30 miles or something, and after that, we're talking lower Manhattan, and remember a lot of clinics u gotta be there in the morning...yeah right; anyone familiar w/ I87 or the West Side highway at morning rush? bumper to bumper for at least an hour....remember, also, i work in Connecticut and start by 8:30, sometimes 9am, but no later than 9, so how would that work, u know what i mean?

i got discouraged :*-(

[upstate_007]

yeah, my dude, can u believe it? i mean i tried to get started in a program in yonkers at st. joseph's hospital cause they have an outpatient meth prog. and they were telling me that they would be happy to "put me on the list" so i asked what that meant and the lady told me that there was a wait of at least six months before they were accepting new patients that called after such and such date...

i was pissed...st. joe's is the closest to where i am, and there's another one in mt. vernon that i checked out too, but they were "filled to capacity" as i was informed...crazy shit bro!

so, besided the mt vernon and the yonkers clinics, the next closest one to me was like 30 miles or something, and after that, we're talking lower Manhattan, and remember a lot of clinics u gotta be there in the morning...yeah right; anyone familiar w/ I87 or the West Side highway at morning rush? bumper to bumper for at least an hour....remember, also, i work in Connecticut and start by 8:30, sometimes 9am, but no later than 9, so how would that work, u know what i mean?

i got discouraged :*-(

That sucks man. There aint no way to make it to a clinic in Manhattan and back up to CT by work time. Fuck, it would be torture enough to try to drive into the city every morning to even get to the clinic.

Back when I was in living in NYC I was able to get on the program in a matter of days. That was a fuckin lifesaver until they figured out that I lied about nearly everything on my documents. I got booted real quick.

After all the waiting Anti had to do up here, I guess it is pretty common everywhere to have to wait a long time to try and change your life. It just does not make any sense to me. You would think that privately run clinics would be sprouting up all over the place. Hell, the junkies are clawing to get in, and the money has to be good running a private clinic. Beats me.

[SHELLEY]

^^^^^^6MONTHS OR LONGER TO GET IN, IS FUC'N KKRAZY. I got in the day I called, but it was a study where they paid me every 3months $20. But this was for blacks & hispanics, so if u white u fucked.

U can get on a state funded program, but the wait is no more then a month, & u can allways jump to ANY PAY MMT CLINIC BUT I HEARD IT COSTS ANYWHERE FROM $50-75,WEEKLY.

and if you want drugs (mmt) why shouldn't you pay for 'em?
i gotta pay $12/day and i'm on medicaid
why SHOULD the govt fund our addictions and treatment?
since when is that a "right"?

[Papa Verine]

What they do when they take away our options like this is cause more people to hit the streets. The crime in Chicago right now is bad enough, these policies will only make it worse. More drug sales to fight about on the streets, more addicts robbing and stealing to support thier habits, OD's and other drug-related medical emergencies... A lot of bad shit... Our state government here sucks my ass and the governor is a fuckin' douchebag I can't even stand to look at the guy on TV. I gotta' change the channel real fast.

Whether this is self-induced mayhem or not, it's just fact. I maintain my own habit so they don't effect me anyway, but I still think the policy sucks.

[SHELLEY]

how is this the govts fault?
all these people who want to get into clinics and are "forced" on the street-
did the govt get them addicted to opiates?
we did that shit to OURSELVES, and now we are being asked to pay the price
what's wrong with that?

sofla junkies bitch about "pay clinics" all day long too
"why should i have to pay 12 bux a day (which is $84/week) to get my done?"
they say they can't afford it, which is *usually* bullshit
because these same folks who can't come up with $84 to stay well all week
were throwing down $100+ a day on heroin or oxys or whatever expensive dope they like
when we were getting high, we didn't expect the govt to pay for our street dope
why should they pay for our legal dope???

[OxyContinuously]

in NY, as far as i know, i'm pretty sure medicaid covers meth for no charge, but iknow it varies state to state...

what we really need is federally funded free healthcare...instead of *wasting* untold billions on nonsensical endeavors,, the US should really try harder to take care of its goddamned citizens...

just a thought

[upstate_007]

how is this the govts fault?
all these people who want to get into clinics and are "forced" on the street-
did the govt get them addicted to opiates?
we did that shit to OURSELVES, and now we are being asked to pay the price
what's wrong with that?


I'll agree that MMT or any treatment is not a "right", but come one. What side are you on?

Do you not think that affordable and accessible treatment programs are a good idea?

Does the Gov. have the responsibility to provide or subsidize MMT? No, but that does not mean that it is not in their interest to do so.

How can you not see that closing clinics and reducing funding and programs is bad for addicts as well as the community as a whole? It's really simple.... less clinics and programs equals more addicts out on the streets committing crimes and all the other behaviors that addiction can foster. Are addicts constitutionally guaranteed treatment options? Not by a long shot. But that does not mean shit in the argument for whether or not MMT clinics are a good idea.

[Cherry's Jubilee]

and if you want drugs (mmt) why shouldn't you pay for 'em?
i gotta pay $12/day and i'm on medicaid
why SHOULD the govt fund our addictions and treatment?
since when is that a "right"?

Interesting Shelley. So how do you feel about being on medicaid? Should the government pay for you and your baby to receive basic health care?

I'm all for government-funded treatment programs. The cost-benefit is undeniable. It's something like 40 times cheaper to pay for someone to receive treatment for addiction for a year (mmt is recognized as an addiction treatment/recovery program) than to pay for someone to be in prison for a year, not to mention the health care and crime costs associated with untreated addictions. Obviously, the gov't pays for someone to be in jail. This is not an ideal world so it's a matter of weighing options. In this case, the weight has been fully proven time and time again in multiple studies that have been duplicated repeatedly since the 1970s.

Aren't you a bit of a hypocrite? It costs the government WAY more to pay for someone to have a baby ONE TIME (about $20,000) than to pay for someone to receive methadone maintenance treatment for 6 years. And if you think that isn't true I'll be glad to forward you a paper I wrote a few months ago called "A Cost-Benefit Analysis of Methadone Maintenance Addiction Treatment Programs."

[upstate_007]

^^^^ very good point!

I also wanted to add a few points about my own journey. When I kicked H a long while ago I took responsibility for my actions, problems and everything 100%. I got myself into it and it was nobody's fault but mine. But, when I got clean I was very fortunate and grateful for the treatment programs I went through which some of were government funded. I was not owed that in any way. But, it helped me tremendously and without them I probably would have still been on the street sleeping in parks and stealing everything I could find to support my heroin habit. So for me, the community and everyone else, those treatment programs worked exactly as they were set up to. It kept me out of jail, off the streets and got me back to a somewhat normal life.

It baffles me how anyone could not support government funded treatment programs. They do so much good for the amount of money that funds them. I would really hate to see what happens if McCain wins and treatment is scaled back or eliminated completely.

[Papa Verine]

how is this the govts fault?
all these people who want to get into clinics and are "forced" on the street-
did the govt get them addicted to opiates?
we did that shit to OURSELVES, and now we are being asked to pay the price
what's wrong with that?

sofla junkies bitch about "pay clinics" all day long too
"why should i have to pay 12 bux a day (which is $84/week) to get my done?"
they say they can't afford it, which is *usually* bullshit
because these same folks who can't come up with $84 to stay well all week
were throwing down $100+ a day on heroin or oxys or whatever expensive dope they like
when we were getting high, we didn't expect the govt to pay for our street dope
why should they pay for our legal dope???

Yeah Shelley, I know what your opinion is on this... Like I said, I do manage my own addiction. I don't rely on the gov't to support my habit. That's not the point. There are A lot of Opiophiles here who I consider my friends, who DO depend on MMT because they've found that it helps them lead a more normal and productive life. Thier only other options are now to A) get sober, or B) find some other way to maintain. I don't judge other people. I've done plenty of stupid crazy fuckin shit through the years, I'm not going to turn around and start telling other people how to manage thier addictions... To "Be responsible". When I hear programs are being shut down like this and know A lot of people are going to be left without one of the safest and most realistic options avaiable to them I think it sucks. I guess you think it's great huh?

[Papa Verine]

^^^^ very good point!

I also wanted to add a few points about my own journey. When I kicked H a long while ago I took responsibility for my actions, problems and everything 100%. I got myself into it and it was nobody's fault but mine. But, when I got clean I was very fortunate and grateful for the treatment programs I went through which some of were government funded. I was not owed that in any way. But, it helped me tremendously and without them I probably would have still been on the street sleeping in parks and stealing everything I could find to support my heroin habit. So for me, the community and everyone else, those treatment programs worked exactly as they were set up to. It kept me out of jail, off the streets and got me back to a somewhat normal life.

It baffles me how anyone could not support government funded treatment programs. They do so much good for the amount of money that funds them. I would really hate to see what happens if McCain wins and treatment is scaled back or eliminated completely.

Me too. The last time I went to treatment it worked well in a number of ways. Even though I haven't stayed sober I've stayed out of police stations/court and I've never gone back to being the junkie I was before. But this doesn't mean I'm going to ridicule all the people who it is helping/could potentially help because they haven't "gotten" it yet. Shelley must be better then everybody else...

[dharma bum]

I'll agree that MMT or any treatment is not a "right", but come one. What side are you on?

Do you not think that affordable and accessible treatment programs are a good idea?

Does the Gov. have the responsibility to provide or subsidize MMT? No, but that does not mean that it is not in their interest to do so.

How can you not see that closing clinics and reducing funding and programs is bad for addicts as well as the community as a whole? It's really simple.... less clinics and programs equals more addicts out on the streets committing crimes and all the other behaviors that addiction can foster. Are addicts constitutionally guaranteed treatment options? Not by a long shot. But that does not mean shit in the argument for whether or not MMT clinics are a good idea.

Well said Upstate. Either Shelley has turned Republican on us or she is playing the devil's advocate. Like Plato's Dialectic...and shit. Don't be naive Shelley. The governments hands aren't clean in this so-called drug war. No the gov. doesn't have a responsibility to subsidize clinics but it's just practical thinking. I'm no conspiracy theorist but what about when certain branches of our government subsidized crack into the ghetto in the 80's. Did they have a responsibility to do that? No, but they did it anyway. Right into areas where people were to prone to wanting to escape.

[upstate_007]

Me too. The last time I went to treatment it worked well in a number of ways. Even though I haven't stayed sober I've stayed out of police stations/court and I've never gone back to being the junkie I was before. But this doesn't mean I'm going to ridicule all the people who it is helping/could potentially help because they haven't "gotten" it yet. Shelley must be better then everybody else...

Exactly man. Treatment works for some people and not for others. The idea though is to provide the opportunity. Entering a treatment program whether gov sponsored or not does not mean that a person is not taking responsibility for their addiction and actions. Quite the opposite in fact.

[supa325]

75 million in state cuts to meth clinics have been done this week in Illinois.
So ck what's going on in ur state. At my mmt we had 7 counslers & they fired or let go 5 of them due to this. This also fuck'd up alot of mmt clinics in Il. & programs they have in da county jails. So this really worries me, what else can happen?:mad:

What they do when they take away our options like this is cause more people to hit the streets. The crime in Chicago right now is bad enough, these policies will only make it worse. More drug sales to fight about on the streets, more addicts robbing and stealing to support thier habits, OD's and other drug-related medical emergencies... A lot of bad shit... Our state government here sucks my ass and the governor is a fuckin' douchebag I can't even stand to look at the guy on TV. I gotta' change the channel real fast.

Whether this is self-induced mayhem or not, it's just fact. I maintain my own habit so they don't effect me anyway, but I still think the policy sucks.

I think we're all from the similar area, and you HAVE to know that both the city and the state are broke. Fucking tapped. Usually social service projects are the first to go.

I know guys who work for streets and sanitation who have to take 3 furlough days (essentially freebee/not getting paid). And they're offering people $20k just to retire. Twenty grand to go home. And you know how Daley is about cleaning the streets/ and plowing on snow days.

It sucks, but don't be shocked.

[SHELLEY]

Well said Upstate. Either Shelley has turned Republican on us or she is playing the devil's advocate. Like Plato's Dialectic...and shit. Don't be naive Shelley. The governments hands aren't clean in this so-called drug war. No the gov. doesn't have a responsibility to subsidize clinics but it's just practical thinking. I'm no conspiracy theorist but what about when certain branches of our government subsidized crack into the ghetto in the 80's. Did they have a responsibility to do that? No, but they did it anyway. Right into areas where people were to prone to wanting to escape.

i'm not a republican, more of a libertarian- but more repub. than dem. thats for DAMN sure

yeah i'm on temporary medicaid, but i hate taking the handout
i think i've said before on how i feel about MYSELF taking handouts from govt
(in the case of others, you do what you gotta do, just like i did)
i've ALWAYS worked for what's mine, ever since i was a teen, i took care of myself and my $$$
i payed for my dope, i payed for my coke, and when i decided to get clean
i payed for my methadone too, i still pay, and guess what i can't work my old job!
i didn't work a "legal job" but ho-ing is real work, i offer a service for $$$ and we both leave happy

basic idea is this-
in my opinion govt aid is good for getting over TEMPORARY humps
you having problems getting a job? get food stamps/welfare
you had a kid or about to have one and can't work temporarily? get medicaid
you want/need to come off drugs? go to a govt-funded rehab center
thats what these services are for, and IMO there's nothing wrong with that

but then people stay on medicaid/welfare/foodstamps/FREE METHADONE for years and years
they never work, or if they do work they spend that $$ on their own shit
and continue to take govt benefits because it's easier
do you think this is cool?

as i said earlier, i am a libertarian
that means i think the govt should leave us the fuck alone
i want to get high, or sling pussy, or not wear a seatbelt?
the law needs to get out of my way and let me do it, that's what i believe
but then, if i get myself in trouble because of doing whatever i want
i don't think the govt should bail me out of this trouble
whether it be through free methadone for 6 years, or whatever
it's a little hypocritical, to say we should be able to do what we want
but the govt should pay for the consequences of us doing what we want

oh and where did you get your info about "govt subsidized crack"???
did you get that from the rev jeremiah wright?
remember, even *obama* has distanced himself from wright's crazy ass...
lemme guess- "they" handed out dirty aids needles along with the crack right? :)
and you're telling ME not to be naive???

[nick]

Hey Shelley,have you considered moving to the Congo.......very little government interference there,in fact very little government at all.

[SHELLEY]

Hey Shelley,have you considered moving to the Congo.......very little government interference there,in fact very little government at all.

showing my ignorance, i don't even know where that is

no, i like it here, i am gonna be an american till i drop dead

[Suboxstitute]

I can think of a simple reason why the government should subsidize, or fully cover:

a) Addiction and recovery programs
b) Health care
c) Education, through college or trade school, if a person desires it and actually goes to class and keeps their grades reasonably good: easy to measure both.

d) Internet access (free wi-fi everywhere) This last one is sorta unrelated.

BECAUSE IT OVERALL SAVES MONEY! OUR MONEY. TAX MONEY. Shelley, you're right: the government did not get us addicted. We did that, some people recreationally some people with real pain conditions. BUT...... If people don't get MMT if they want off drugs, (and for whatever reason cannot private treatment or SAY they can't, doesnt matter which) they'll be on the streets. With the streets comes crime. With crime comes more cops. With cops comes interference in our lives. With more interfence from cops comes more money spent and less resources devoted to other types of violent crime like domestic violent and child abuse and neglect.

(B) hEALTH cARE If people don't get both good, regular preventive and acute health care, they'll wait until they are REALLY sick and go to the ER - when ERs are intended for the real traumas - heart attacks, car accidents, etc. They may wait for hours and die on the floor of the waiting room (just happened!) THEN if the person cannot afford to pay their bill, or chooses not to, the cost is passed on to either private group insurance (employers) or to the taxpayers (us). When these costs are passed to employers (as it is now) we ALL will either pay more from our paychecks for insurance, have shitty high co-pay insurance, or have no insurance from work at all, since the small employers at least cannot afford the sky-high premiums. IF EVERYONE WERE INSURED THE total COST OF HEALTH CARE WOULD GO DOWN. THAT HAS BEEN PROVEN TIME AND TIME AGAIN.

(C) Education - it's prove than the more education you can get, generally the more money you'll make and the more you will pay in social security tax and income tax. So why not offer education to everyone who wants it?
They'll be better trained to take the jobs that the baby boomers, ,as soon as they can afford to retire, will be leaving. They will be more productive, be able to afford decent housing,and again PAY MORE TAXES.

(d) INTERNET ACCESS FOR ALL This last one is just because the Internet is becoming nearly necessity, with libraries closing or reducing hours so people can't look things up in books.

Even if someone can afford a computer (and there are many cheap, older but still good ones available for sale) without Internet access to look things up they're basically left out of the loop compared to middle-class and wealthy families who can afford all the stuff: routers, DSL, cable modem, dial-up - whatever. I think city or county sponsored wireless access for all would be a good thing and even out the playing field for students from poor families who may be able to afford the machine but cannot afford the monthly cost for Internet.

AND just so everyone knows this: FOOD STAMPS (IT HAS BEEN RENAMED FOODSHARE is a nutritional supplement program, not welfare. It is administered federally by the Department of AGRICULTURE not the Department of Human Services. If you have money to eat some decent food, you are healthier and your kids will do better in school. That is also well proven.


So certain government programs will save money in the long run. If we took just a fraction of the money we spend each day in IRAQ there would be money available for these programs.

Apolgies once again for a too-long post. I guess that's just me!

Sue

[Suboxstitute]

showing my ignorance, i don't even know where that is

no, i like it here, i am gonna be an american till i drop dead


Congo is in Africa, and they are having many problems and violence going back many years.....and because the government will not help (there is hardly even a government) lots of people are dying every day, even if they are hard-working family people.

Lots of corruption been going on for a long time.

[nick]

I think any society should be judged by the way it treats it's most disadvantaged,vulnerable members.

I know,I'm a hippy,pinko liberal.

[SurfRat]

Yes it is simple reality unless you are going to change human nature, you have to accept the fact that there is no such thing as a perfect society, that there will always be people who will need help, and those who will take advantage of assistance programs.

But as so many have said ^^^ it is better and cheaper in the long run for society to accept that some people will take advantage because the benefits of helping those in need far outweighs the extra cost that is inherent in such a program.

If you are concerned about government handouts. Please address the salaries and benefit packages of our elected officials for starters. Subsidies to corporations and other countries. No bid contracts that cost billions.

The amount of money that is spent on these kinds (example, methadone) of programs is ridiculously small in the context of a fed, state or even city or county budget.


Curious how much our "Devils Advocate" someone has paid in taxes while working *under the table* these last few years, no pun intended.


I think any society should be judged by the way it treats it's most disadvantaged,vulnerable members.
I know,I'm a hippy,pinko liberal.
Damn Hippy!:rolleyes:

[SHELLEY]

Yes it is simple reality unless you are going to change human nature, you have to accept the fact that there is no such thing as a perfect society, that there will always be people who will need help, and those who will take advantage of assistance programs.

But as so many have said ^^^ it is better and cheaper in the long run for society to accept that some people will take advantage because the benefits of helping those in need far outweighs the extra cost that is inherent in such a program.

If you are concerned about government handouts. Please address the salaries and benefit packages of our elected officials for starters. Subsidies to corporations and other countries. No bid contracts that cost billions.

The amount of money that is spent on these kinds (example, methadone) of programs is ridiculously small in the context of a fed, state or even city or county budget.


Curious how much our "Devils Advocate" someone has paid in taxes while working *under the table* these last few years, no pun intended.



Damn Hippy!:rolleyes:

i just think the govt should leave us alone, that's all
more govt programs and interference can't help anything
its funny how y'all hate the govt so much until you need a handout???

i don't pay taxes
medicaid, which expires 3months after baby is born btw,
is the first time i've ever used tax money instead of working

i like the "under the table" joke tho, that made me smile :)
under the table and beneath the steering wheel, that's me

[SHELLEY]

I
(B) hEALTH cARE If people don't get both good, regular preventive and acute health care, they'll wait until they are REALLY sick and go to the ER - when ERs are intended for the real traumas - heart attacks, car accidents, etc. They may wait for hours and die on the floor of the waiting room (just happened!) THEN if the person cannot afford to pay their bill, or chooses not to, the cost is passed on to either private group insurance (employers) or to the taxpayers (us). When these costs are passed to employers (as it is now) we ALL will either pay more from our paychecks for insurance, have shitty high co-pay insurance, or have no insurance from work at all, since the small employers at least cannot afford the sky-high premiums. IF EVERYONE WERE INSURED THE total COST OF HEALTH CARE WOULD GO DOWN. THAT HAS BEEN PROVEN TIME AND TIME AGAIN.

AND just so everyone knows this: FOOD STAMPS (IT HAS BEEN RENAMED FOODSHARE is a nutritional supplement program, not welfare. It is administered federally by the Department of AGRICULTURE not the Department of Human Services. If you have money to eat some decent food, you are healthier and your kids will do better in school. That is also well proven.


all healthy people want free healthcare
until THEY have to get on a 6month waiting list for THEIR mri's or whatever

food stamps are given out by dcf (dept of children and families) here in florida
and it is known as "electronic benefits transfer" and if you get the food stamps
it is on THE SAME CARD as your "cash assistance" aka welfare $$$
so maybe in some states they call it "nutritional supplement program" (tho not here)
but that's just semantics, like "blind" becoming "visually impaired"-
your still blind , it's just called somethign different

[Suboxstitute]

all healthy people want free healthcare
until THEY have to get on a 6month waiting list for THEIR mri's or whatever

food stamps are given out by dcf (dept of children and families) here in florida
and it is known as "electronic benefits transfer" and if you get the food stamps
it is on THE SAME CARD as your "cash assistance" aka welfare $$$
so maybe in some states they call it "nutritional supplement program" (tho not here)
but that's just semantics, like "blind" becoming "visually impaired"-
your still blind , it's just called somethign different

*** EDIT TO SAY - Shelley you are right about food stamps -- it is only in my state and a few others in the Midwest that it is called "Foodshare". I was trying to say that people should not be reluctant to use the program if they qualify for it, since it does do good things for families ****

I respect you for your opinions, I mean that. And you're not afraid to get them out there and let people know what they are!

One thing I do agree strongly with is your statement about assistance being temporary to get over a hump in most cases and not a permanent way of life. But maybe we have to "agree to disagree" on other things...

I've worked on the business side of the health care field too long to change my mind about everyone - having decent healthcare ...it would make the whole health care system cheaper without 1000's of insurance companies all duplicating the same work if we at least had a single payer system where everyone could still see whatever doctor they wanted, but all claims would go to the same central place and be paid from there. And there would be no "pre-existing condition" exclusions or underwriting questionnaires 10 pages long.

The insurance companiies contribute a helluva lotta money to the politicians to ensure they all stay in business. The cost of all their lobbyists shows up in the costs of MY health insurance and I don't like paying for that.

There are people who aren't as strong as you are Shelley... who can't make it on their own for whatever reason (mental illness is a big one) and I still wish we had more decent programs to help them.

Sue

[Badly Drawn Girl]

I think any society should be judged by the way it treats it's most disadvantaged,vulnerable members.



Nicely put Nick.

[bigNasty]

Well if McCain wins........I'd think about moving to Mexico,if I were you bro.
Just think how bout it could be if she relapsed because of this

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20219041,00.html?xid=rss-topheadlines

and he really got pissed

[SurfRat]

....Shelley.....
I respect you for your opinions, I mean that. And you're not afraid to get them out there and let people know what they are!

One thing I do agree strongly with is your statement about assistance being temporary to get over a hump in most cases and not a permanent way of life. But maybe we have to "agree to disagree" on other things...

....

I agree and,

likewise with Shelley, I appreciated the discussion and dialogue.:)

[bigNasty]

I think any society should be judged by the way it treats it's most disadvantaged,vulnerable members.

I know,I'm a hippy,pinko liberal.
^^^ Couldn't agree more. You know what i think is funny? Jesus cared about the poor, the sick, disadvantaged, the prostitutes, etc... And the Americans that would call you a hippie, pinko liberal for thinking like that^^^ claim to be the most holy. Not trying to get this thread way O/T into a religious debate but I don't think Jesus would be a capitalist and encouraging people to buy material bullshit instead of caring for their fellow man's basic needs(food, shelter, clothing)

[syn2600]

Only thing around me is pay clinics as far as i know, and i've looked. There is an exception of a chain of about 5 pay clinics that except mass health (state's medical insurance) but i'm sure its still almost impossible to get em to cover it, thats the way the coverage works, like shit. The CHEAPEST clinic around is $360 a month, AFTER you have paid all the start up fees. Insane.

[Chicago]

1rst.
Shelley, these are called state funded programs in Illinois, NOT gov't.
Now u say people bitch about paying the $84 a week. We/people get on meth to get our lives back 2gether, JUST AN EXAMPLE, BURGLER/PROSITUTE who use heroin & get on meth can pay more then $100buks a day easy, but they got to the point where they are sick of taking that chance to score money that way & not going to jail all the time.

So when they get on this program, they start 2 change there life around not to go back 2 there old ways, so untill they learn how 2 be clean & get a job if it be at a fast food joint or billion dollar company, so it is hard to get money, unless they go back to there old ways.
IT'S A LIFE CHANGE.

WE ALL NO WHEN WE USE WE CAN GET MONEY, BUT WHERE IS ALL THAT MONEY WHEN WE STOP USING?





how is this the govts fault?
all these people who want to get into clinics and are "forced" on the street-
did the govt get them addicted to opiates?
we did that shit to OURSELVES, and now we are being asked to pay the price
what's wrong with that?

sofla junkies bitch about "pay clinics" all day long too
"why should i have to pay 12 bux a day (which is $84/week) to get my done?"
they say they can't afford it, which is *usually* bullshit
because these same folks who can't come up with $84 to stay well all week
were throwing down $100+ a day on heroin or oxys or whatever expensive dope they like
when we were getting high, we didn't expect the govt to pay for our street dope
why should they pay for our legal dope???

all healthy people want free healthcare
until THEY have to get on a 6month waiting list for THEIR mri's or whatever

food stamps are given out by dcf (dept of children and families) here in florida
and it is known as "electronic benefits transfer" and if you get the food stamps
it is on THE SAME CARD as your "cash assistance" aka welfare $$$
so maybe in some states they call it "nutritional supplement program" (tho not here)
but that's just semantics, like "blind" becoming "visually impaired"-
your still blind , it's just called somethign different

As in food stamps, Illinois does not work w/DCFS on this. We also do not get the Electronic benifits transfer for over 10yrs+.
So be lucky if u are one of them.
Now look at like this Shelley we both got on the meth program the same, as I was told by a counsler that they are gonna drop %50 of the 160 people, so 80 gotta bounce. They also said take inconsideration that the newest people who go b4 the people that were there for 2-5yrs, that would mean, me & you Shelley, but you would get chosen to stay over me b/c u r preg.
But if some new kid on the block only been using for 1yr, gets on this meth & has been clean ever since he been on, now he is working, has a kid on the way, gots a car, all this shit he never had when he was using, but get bounced outta the clinic b/c the state. Now he loses it all , the car, the job, his lady, all of it & ends up back on the street all b/c the state of Illinois has such a shitty Govenor not Goverment, that our govenor will pay up to 30grand extra for a weekend to have extra security & cars, they said more then the president:mad:. This is whats fucking us up.

My post was THE STATE, NOT THE GOV'T, BUT THE GOVENOR OF ILLINOIS IS DOING THIS.

IF I THINK I MISSED SOMETHING I WILL COME BACK & POST B/C I WENT 4 A SMOKE.
I WAS ON MMT '95-99 THEN FROM MARCH '08 & NEVER SEEN AN INSURANCE EVEN COVER ANY OF THE COST OF THE PAYMENT. FROM PAY CLINIC TO STATE FUNDED. STATE FUNDED ARE USUALLY 10BUKS A WEEK AS TO PAY ARE 50-75 A WEEK. ALL OUTTA POCKET.

[reddragon3668]

I have agree with ya, Nick. Seems like the older we get the less idealist we become.


I think any society should be judged by the way it treats it's most disadvantaged,vulnerable members.

I know,I'm a hippy,pinko liberal.

[supa325]

Shelley, think about gov't funded MMT long term. If a person wants to get clean, start a new life, and has tried every method, and is going for MMT, and stays clean, now he has a job, paying his taxes, essentially paying back the people that helped him in the first place.

I used to have a 'everyman for himself' mentality, but, really with the cost of putting someone in prison, or hospitalizing them in at a County Hospital, it's better for everyone to have the government help them, if they want it, not abandoning them.

As for what Chicago said, Illinois is broke, and New York is facing huge financial problems too, just as the rest of the country. I agree with you that blagojevich (IL gov.) is a crook AND a fuck up, but who in IL/Chicago politics hasn't been? He's caused a lot of problems in this state, and will eventually get charged with some sort of extortion crime, eventually, but it would've taken a genius to avoid this recession, not the mention the state house and senate can't even fucking agree on which way the toilet paper should face in the bathrooms, let alone important stuff like the budget. And like I said before, social service programs (ie county hospitals, MMT, welfare) are first on the chopping block, because when people start feeling the pinch of shit like this, the last thing they want to do his help out 'some junky.'

[Narkotikon]

i don't pay taxes
medicaid, which expires 3months after baby is born btw,
is the first time i've ever used tax money instead of working

i like the "under the table" joke tho, that made me smile :)
under the table and beneath the steering wheel, that's me

WRONG! You don't pay taxes, but YOU DO use tax money (and I'm not talking about the Medicaid). You drive on the streets, right? You plan on sending your child to school, right? Well, sorry to say it, but that's all funded by tax dollars. And I'm sure there are a lot more I'm forgetting about. But, the point is, how come you feel you have the right to call others hypocrites when you yourself are one. You don't pay taxes, yet you use services that are funded by taxes. Sure, they may not be as big as years on free healthcare or methadone or food stamps, but they still count. You're not impervious to the game.

And, while I'll say I respect your opinons (I mean, that's your right), I do have to say that I absolutely disagree with most of them. Anyone who would actually want John McCain elected in office and prefers Republicans over Democrats and is a drug user / single mother / prostitute / whatever is just ignorant in my opinion. Republicans care nothing for your or my kind. They pander to poor people about moral issues to get elected, but they do absolutely nothing for these people. It's a big scam, and I think it's disgusting. And I'm glad you're proud to be an American, but quite frankly, I'm ashamed to be one. And that's my right.

[Narkotikon]

Just think how bout it could be if she relapsed because of this

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20219041,00.html?xid=rss-topheadlines

and he really got pissed

Can anyone say "I just wanted some Percocet."

[dharma bum]

Anyone who would actually want John McCain elected in office and prefers Republicans over Democrats and is a drug user / single mother / prostitute / whatever is just ignorant in my opinion. Republicans care nothing for your or my kind.

ding, ding, ding, ding, ding!!! And the prize goes to Narkotikon for hitting the nail right on the friggin' head.

Ignorant---or visually impaired (or blind) from watching too much Sean Hannity.

Oh and libertarianism places a very high priority over personal LIBERTY and freedom. God forbid you relapse Shelley and you have to face Florida's manditory minimum sentencing laws connected to, especially, crack cocaine. Laws liberals are outraged by. Maybe John Mccaine will pardon you.

I'm kidding a little bit Shelley. I respect your viewpoints too. As wrong and mindboggling they are-- coming from an ex-crack addicted female--i respect them.

[Chicago]

Yes the state of Illinois has had big problems for many years.
Our last Gov is locked up, as this Gov will probally be locked up a few years after he will be done.

@Shelley, just 2 say, what if this happend in Fla. That in this situation they denied your baby the meth it needs when it is born, for this little while, b/c it just got a 75million cut 1week b4 the baby was born, IT HAPPEND THIS FAST 2 US IN ILLINOIS.

@PEOPLE IN CHICAGO, SO MANY DETOXES , MMT CLINICS & REHABS CLOSED DOWN SINCE MONDAY, CHICAGO'S OLDEST REHAB HAYMARKET CLOSED OFF 2 SECTIONS, & WAS THE WOMEN WHO ARE ADDICTS WHO ABOUT 2 GIVE BIRTH..:mad::(



Shelley, think about gov't funded MMT long term. If a person wants to get clean, start a new life, and has tried every method, and is going for MMT, and stays clean, now he has a job, paying his taxes, essentially paying back the people that helped him in the first place.

I used to have a 'everyman for himself' mentality, but, really with the cost of putting someone in prison, or hospitalizing them in at a County Hospital, it's better for everyone to have the government help them, if they want it, not abandoning them.

As for what Chicago said, Illinois is broke, and New York is facing huge financial problems too, just as the rest of the country. I agree with you that blagojevich (IL gov.) is a crook AND a fuck up, but who in IL/Chicago politics hasn't been? He's caused a lot of problems in this state, and will eventually get charged with some sort of extortion crime, eventually, but it would've taken a genius to avoid this recession, not the mention the state house and senate can't even fucking agree on which way the toilet paper should face in the bathrooms, let alone important stuff like the budget. And like I said before, social service programs (ie county hospitals, MMT, welfare) are first on the chopping block, because when people start feeling the pinch of shit like this, the last thing they want to do his help out 'some junky.'

[monkeyphunk]

mexico?? i dont think soim headin to england where we can get diamorp[hine:pWell if McCain wins........I'd think about moving to Mexico,if I were you bro.

[RxQueen]

just out of curiosity, shelley... after your baby is born, do you plan on getting a "legit" job with health care benefits? and if not, how will you pay for the health care for the child through his/her life? i understand you choosing to work as you did when you were on your own. but once you have a child dependant on you, will you be taking the same risks with your health, safety, and freedom as you did back then?

[SHELLEY]

1rst.
Shelley, these are called state funded programs in Illinois, NOT gov't.
Now u say people bitch about paying the $84 a week. We/people get on meth to get our lives back 2gether, JUST AN EXAMPLE, BURGLER/PROSITUTE who use heroin & get on meth can pay more then $100buks a day easy, but they got to the point where they are sick of taking that chance to score money that way & not going to jail all the time.

So when they get on this program, they start 2 change there life around not to go back 2 there old ways, so untill they learn how 2 be clean & get a job if it be at a fast food joint or billion dollar company, so it is hard to get money, unless they go back to there old ways.
IT'S A LIFE CHANGE.

WE ALL NO WHEN WE USE WE CAN GET MONEY, BUT WHERE IS ALL THAT MONEY WHEN WE STOP USING?









As in food stamps, Illinois does not work w/DCFS on this. We also do not get the Electronic benifits transfer for over 10yrs+.
So be lucky if u are one of them.
Now look at like this Shelley we both got on the meth program the same, as I was told by a counsler that they are gonna drop %50 of the 160 people, so 80 gotta bounce. They also said take inconsideration that the newest people who go b4 the people that were there for 2-5yrs, that would mean, me & you Shelley, but you would get chosen to stay over me b/c u r preg.
But if some new kid on the block only been using for 1yr, gets on this meth & has been clean ever since he been on, now he is working, has a kid on the way, gots a car, all this shit he never had when he was using, but get bounced outta the clinic b/c the state. Now he loses it all , the car, the job, his lady, all of it & ends up back on the street all b/c the state of Illinois has such a shitty Govenor not Goverment, that our govenor will pay up to 30grand extra for a weekend to have extra security & cars, they said more then the president:mad:. This is whats fucking us up.

My post was THE STATE, NOT THE GOV'T, BUT THE GOVENOR OF ILLINOIS IS DOING THIS.

IF I THINK I MISSED SOMETHING I WILL COME BACK & POST B/C I WENT 4 A SMOKE.
I WAS ON MMT '95-99 THEN FROM MARCH '08 & NEVER SEEN AN INSURANCE EVEN COVER ANY OF THE COST OF THE PAYMENT. FROM PAY CLINIC TO STATE FUNDED. STATE FUNDED ARE USUALLY 10BUKS A WEEK AS TO PAY ARE 50-75 A WEEK. ALL OUTTA POCKET.


state government is still government, homes

[SHELLEY]

And, while I'll say I respect your opinons (I mean, that's your right), I do have to say that I absolutely disagree with most of them. Anyone who would actually want John McCain elected in office and prefers Republicans over Democrats and is a drug user / single mother / prostitute / whatever is just ignorant in my opinion. Republicans care nothing for your or my kind. They pander to poor people about moral issues to get elected, but they do absolutely nothing for these people. It's a big scam, and I think it's disgusting. And I'm glad you're proud to be an American, but quite frankly, I'm ashamed to be one. And that's my right.

the dems don't care about "us" any more than the reps do
they just talk a different game
honestly, all that shuffling around every 4yrs doesn't do too damn much
this country is bought and paid for already

everyone hates bush: "oh, the oil companies got him in their pocket"
and of course, when (not if) mccain gets elected, the oil companies will buy him out too
well, yeah, of course that's gonna happen
you think they won't get to obama too? you think that man doesn't have a price tag?
shit, there are only 2 REAL reasons why i support mccain:
1) i don't want to look at obama's face all the time on tv
2) i like backing a winner!! obama won't really win, it's just an act

and before anyone calls me "racist" again, i don't even fuckin' vote
i'm not saying what i THINK is gonna happen
i'm just saying what really will happen, ya know, in real life outside of liberals dreams

[jersey_emt]

so, besided the mt vernon and the yonkers clinics, the next closest one to me was like 30 miles or something, and after that, we're talking lower Manhattan, and remember a lot of clinics u gotta be there in the morning...yeah right; anyone familiar w/ I87 or the West Side highway at morning rush? bumper to bumper for at least an hour....remember, also, i work in Connecticut and start by 8:30, sometimes 9am, but no later than 9, so how would that work, u know what i mean?



Have you considered taking a train into and out of Manhattan? Drive to a Metro-North station (I'm guessing somewhere on the Harlem Line or Hudson Line would be best for you as you mention I-87), take a train to Grand Central, than the subway to the clinic. Then get back to Grand Central Terminal, take a Metro-North train back to your car, and drive to work. Or, depending on how close to a Metro-North station in CT you work, skip the train back to the station where you parked your car, and take a New Haven Line train directly to your job in CT. Then, when the day is over, take a New Haven Line train down to 125th Street station and transfer to a Hudson Line or Harlem Line train to get back to your car.

It may not actually save you time (due to the transfers required), but it would definitely be less stressful -- no dealing with the dreadful traffic in & out of Manhattan.

[Narkotikon]

the dems don't care about "us" any more than the reps do
they just talk a different game
honestly, all that shuffling around every 4yrs doesn't do too damn much
this country is bought and paid for already

everyone hates bush: "oh, the oil companies got him in their pocket"
and of course, when (not if) mccain gets elected, the oil companies will buy him out too
well, yeah, of course that's gonna happen
you think they won't get to obama too? you think that man doesn't have a price tag?
shit, there are only 2 REAL reasons why i support mccain:
1) i don't want to look at obama's face all the time on tv
2) i like backing a winner!! obama won't really win, it's just an act

and before anyone calls me "racist" again, i don't even fuckin' vote
i'm not saying what i THINK is gonna happen
i'm just saying what really will happen, ya know, in real life outside of liberals dreams

First of all, I didn't say the Democrats care any more for "us" than the Republicans do, but I do find their message more appealing because they at least set up ways for people to help themselves "if" that's what people want to do. With Republicans, you get all kinds of social services erased and people are stuck. Altogether, I find politics disgusting. I would much rather have a meritocracy based on intelligence, where you'd actually have to prove you were capable of holding office, by passing certain tests. But, that's never going to happen.

Secondly, I never said I enjoy Obama, but I will vote for him because I think he's the lesser of two evils, McCain being the worst. And no, I don't dislike Obama because of the reason you do (I'm not racist). I just simply think he's too young and inexperienced to be running for President. Give him twenty years, then lets talk. But I certainly don't want some big-mouthed, hot-headed, rage-o-holic in the White House either, who's only using his wife's money and riding on the coat-tails of his POW experience to get elected. I think he's a pocket-Bush, and I think that's horrible.

Thirdly, a racist is a racist is a racist, doesn't matter if you don't vote. Still disgusting in my opinion. And if that's the only reason you're rooting for Republicans and McCain, I still maintain that you're ignorant. I'm sorry, but Republicans don't give a damn about you or me. They pander to the "morality" of poor people to get elected, then do absolutely NOTHING for those constituents in office. And I find that deplorable. You see, morality is inherently based on religion, and there should never be anything "religious" in government because we have a separation between church and state. For instance, gay marriage. Marriage is a religious rite, based in a church. As a gay man do I think gay marriage should be legalized. No, not at all, because that's a religious area and the government has no right in that area. But, do I think gay couples should be allowed to have civil unions, yes, absolutely. Why shouldn't I be allowed to marry if I choose too? I pay taxes (yes, I pay taxes), I do what I'm supposed to do (minus one area of my life--drug use), so why shouldn't I be given that right like everyone else. Yet, you have these dumbass, honkey-tonk people courted by Republicans to "ban the gays, save America." So, they elect the Republicans, get elected, screw the average people over, get their initiatives passed, and sit back in their cozy homes and chairs and help find tax breaks for rich people. It's deplorable, and I find anyone who buys into that ignorant.

[Papa Verine]

Have you considered taking a train into and out of Manhattan? Drive to a Metro-North station (I'm guessing somewhere on the Harlem Line or Hudson Line would be best for you as you mention I-87), take a train to Grand Central, than the subway to the clinic. Then get back to Grand Central Terminal, take a Metro-North train back to your car, and drive to work. Or, depending on how close to a Metro-North station in CT you work, skip the train back to the station where you parked your car, and take a New Haven Line train directly to your job in CT. Then, when the day is over, take a New Haven Line train down to 125th Street station and transfer to a Hudson Line or Harlem Line train to get back to your car.

It may not actually save you time (due to the transfers required), but it would definitely be less stressful -- no dealing with the dreadful traffic in & out of Manhattan.

Reminds me of the way I get around Chicago.

[Badly Drawn Girl]

And I'm glad you're proud to be an American, but quite frankly, I'm ashamed to be one. And that's my right.

I don't know that I'm ashamed but it certainly isn't a big source of pride for me. And the thing that I have a hard time understanding is when so called patriotic people basically see it as slam against the country when others speak out against it. As an American, I want my country to live up to it's full potential. We have the ability to be true leaders in this world, and make the world, as a whole, a better place. When I complain about our politics and policies, it isn't because I HATE America, it's because I LOVE America. Our job as good citizens should be to speak the truth and try to make changes instead of blindly waving the flag and attacking those who have a different point of view. I cannot understand the America, Love it or Leave it point of view. That isn't how it works. It makes more sense to stay and try to make some positive changes.

[Narkotikon]

I don't know that I'm ashamed but it certainly isn't a big source of pride for me. And the thing that I have a hard time understanding is when so called patriotic people basically see it as slam against the country when others speak out against it. As an American, I want my country to live up to it's full potential. We have the ability to be true leaders in this world, and make the world, as a whole, a better place. When I complain about our politics and policies, it isn't because I HATE America, it's because I LOVE America. Our job as good citizens should be to speak the truth and try to make changes instead of blindly waving the flag and attacking those who have a different point of view. I cannot understand the America, Love it or Leave it point of view. That isn't how it works. It makes more sense to stay and try to make some positive changes.

Exactly. It's just down right ignorance. Anyone who tells me I should leave or am "un-American" because I have a different point of view doesn't really know what being an American is IMO. I don't understand that whole "if you don't support the troops you should leave" mentality. I think it's complete bullshit.