something important to consider before you go on suboxone

[opiobsessed]

I'm a true example of the horror one has to go through if they wind up in a hospital and need surgery and they are on suboxone. I'm on 3, 8mg pills a day and have been on it for a year now. I too thought it was a miracle drug because I still got almost a nice buzz like vicodin, didn't have to go into a clinic everyday and felt great everyday just like when I was on vicodin. Well that changed real fast two weeks ago when I wound up in the hospital on my birthday of all things. I have serious health problems which is why I got addicted to vicodin in the first place. Well long story short, I had to have intestinal surgery again and when I woke up from it all I was not even done being wheeled into the recovery room yet and I already woke up. I suddenly dry heaved and it hurt so bad I started shaking when they switched me onto another bed. My whole body was shaking so bad I was afraid my stitches would come undone. They wouldn't give me any benzo's, no nothing. I had to suffer horrible pain for who knows how long until they finally hooked me up to a morphine pump. When I got up to my room they switched me to my bed, this time I was in worse pain and the nurse said I was on dilaudid, only 2mg I think. I finally kept whining until they finally called my doctor, it took over an hour before they put me on morphine, only 2mg every 6 mins. I was finally in less enough pain to sleep, but I had no buzz at all, no good feelings, just fatigue enough to make me sleep good. I still kept jerking awake alot, it hurt like fuck everytime that would happen. It took me days before I was finally not in as much pain to where I could bear getting up to go to the bathroom etc. After 5 or so days they yanked me off the morphine pump and right away I had to have a shot, they said I was allowed dilaudid every 3 hours. Of course they wont tell you the dose, that barely held me out for two hours until I started getting worse pain and then sudden wd until the wd got so bad that I sneezed just once and that was it. I called the nurse and said I just sneezed and it hurt so bad I can't stand it, they called the doc and gave me another shot of dillie and this time upped it to only 1mg every 3 hours. In the end I finally got put on methadone 20mg every 6 hours, but my sub doctor demanded that I get put back on sub as soon as possible. I was sent home with nothing, they gave me my last done dose before I was discharged from the hospital. I was to call and go over to my sub doc that afternoon and bring my meds with for some reason. My sub doc wouldn't keep me on methadone, I had to wait 24 hours in hell before I could take my sub again. I braced myself for hell on earth as I went home. I was amazed that I wasn't in bad wd yet from the methadone, I just slept the whole 24 hours to forget about it as much as possible. When I woke up the next day it was noon and minutes away from me having to take my first sub. I was not in too bad wd yet and I was scared shitless that I would be once I took my sub again. I did and luckily everything went ok, I was allowed to take one more pill if wd came on, which it did a little. Now I'm sitting recovering from it all, wishing I could get high as fuck, no money or credit to order more vicodin, all because I'm on sub. Just thought I'd share my story with everyone who might be considering going on suboxone, its not as great as it sounds and it not any better than methadone in my opinion. Only thing good about sub is you dont have to go into the clinic everyday.

[Opiyum]

I feel for you bro and cant say ive gone through anything like that but remember that story is unique to you. You had a condition which fucked you over it wasnt the subs.

[shaunclo]

Opio, it doesnt sound like your ready to be on a maintenance program yet. You dont sound like you want to get off vicodin, or whatever your D.O.C is. Remember that methadone and suboxone is not there to get you high, it is there so you can get your life back. If all you wanna do is get high, than go back on vicodin. I think you are trying to get something from suboxone that it doesnt provide. Even if you switch to methadone, I think you will be switching for the wrong reasons. Methadone is there also to replace your addiction with one that doesnt provide euphoria, but provides you with something that you can control. I think you have some serious soul-searching to do, please dont take that the wrong way.

[piper]

I'm new here and am in my 2nd day off oxycontin. (20mg 2-7x a day) Withdrawl symptoms are setting in though not horrible, yet. Is there anything OTC or herbs, vitamins that can make this experience less agonizing? Also, I can get some Talwin from a friend but don't know if this is the best thing for withdrawl. Any suggestions, comments?

[ZodiacKiller]

^Chances are the w/d will get worse for you in the next 2 days. If you can get some Immodium AD (which contains loperamide--it's technically an opiate but doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier), take like triple the directed dosage. This can help with mild w/d symptoms immensely (worked for me anyway)--it may constipate you, but IMO it's better than all the bowel activity that accompanies withdrawal. Also, benzos can help immensely for the anxiety and insomnia, however, you must be careful with these as they have their own set of issues, which I'm not gonna detail here. But they also helped me immensely. And I don't know if you have access to them.

The Talwin MAY help. I don't know that much about this drug, but what I have read makes me think that it may harm more than help you at this point. Maybe someone else with knowledge of this one can answer.

Good luck to you---kicking Oxys is a bitch, as I know firsthand.

ZodiacKiller

BTW, Opiobsessed, I gotta agree with shaunclo on this one. The whole bupe/dope/back to bupe thing is a vicious cycle and will bite you in the ass in the end. I'd just stick with the Vics, and stockpile your bupe 'till you're ready to really quit. It will work if you use it properly. I'm actually surprised you got scripted Subxone for a hydrocodone addiction.

[shaunclo]

Like Zodiac stated, use the suboxone in a way where they work for you. I use them for breaks which they work great. This way I can have little controlled binges (maybe a week long) and then go back on the subs. It works GREEEAAATTTT!! just like Frosted Flakes! Cause if you are trying to get a buzz from the subs it just wont work. But if you use them as a tool instead, than you get to look forward to your binge. Its like, hey I did good the last month, I deserve a good ol' opiated week-long binge, Ohhhhh Yeeahhhh!. Then when you get to indulge it is so much more rewarding, trust me. This also aleviates that vicious cycle and gives you control. If only the doctors knew, actually I think they do. But why the fuck would they care, they are getting richer. I know mine doesnt care, in fact my doc told me when he gave me my last script for subutex, he was like, "You know what, people are selling these things in Europe and making a killing, its the new craze." I told him back, arent all you doctors in the states doing the same thing, just legally?? He smirked. He knows Im a smart-ass.

If anyone is reading this and wants on subutex instead, you just have to act very frustrated and done with the whole drug thing. For instance, my doctor knows I have anxiety problems and offered to give me a script for xanax, I declined stating, "I dont want anything else that might become a problem for me down the road." He was impressed, but doesnt know SWIM gets his valium and xanax from a very cheap and reliable source. He believes that I am done with it all. Can you say S-U-C-K-E-R. Naw, seriously, most of em dont really care as long as your paying for your visits, and dont get behind. It took me 3 doc changes before I found one that would script me subutex instead of suboxone.

[antony]

They're as good as Frosted Flakes? hmm okay, cuz thats my favorite ceral, and if works that well, well sign me up!!!;)

[piper]

Thanks Zodiac. I've been taking the Immodium and it does help although not for an extended period. Im not sure how many a day would be dangerous, I don't want to start vomitting my own shit or anything, I've heard that can happen. But I'm not eating much anyways. No appetite, eyes watering, accessive yawning and hot and cold flashes sums up how I'm feeling right now. But I've been through much much worse. Getting off Fentanyl was horrid, though not lasting as long as this and my tramadol seemed to help Fentanyl WDs much better than Oxy, b/c it's obviously not doing much for me right now. I don't have access to benzos but I've got tramadol and ritalin in my cabinet. I also heard large amounts of vit C can help so I'm taking that too. I wish I had some pot which I can probably get but I'm going out of state on Thurs and am not sure if taking a small bit with me on a plane would be a good idea? This is absolutely the worst time for me to be traveling but it could be worse, I could be working. I just hope the worst of it will be gone by then. I thought the Talwin might help because it seems similar to bupe, 0.5 mg naloxone/50 mg pentazocine. But I will only get about ten so I don't want to start that and then go into WD all over again. How long should this last? I have a high metabolism and weigh 100 pds, will this help drug clearance? I certainly metabolize drugs quickly. I needed to take an oxy every four hours to prevent crashing, regardless if I took it whole or not. Thanks again.

[ZodiacKiller]

First off, sorry to Opiobsessed for hijacking your thread here....

Piper, I wouldn't worry about the Immodium too much. Each tab is 2mg and I was taking them 4 or 5 at a time, and the first few days dosing 3 times a day and chugging the liquid stuff, too, BUT I also started taking laxative pills on day 3. After the first 3 days last time I quit Oxy, I don't think there coulda been anything left in me to puke or shit out anyway. Also keep yourself hydrated--lotsa water, Gatorade, and fruit juice---it's important! BTW, I remember reading a thread about Immodium on Bluelight, and guys were taking 36-40mg a day. I don't think I'd ever go that high, but whatever works I guess...

You asked how long this will last, well: it's the general consensus that the physical stuff usually peaks on day 3 and after day 5 the worst is over. And for god's sake, don't sit around and let the fear and depression get to ya! Even if it means taking a brisk walk around the block or something, just do something to get the endorphins pumpin'. The mental aspect, the craving, boredom, and depression will be there for quite a while after the physical stuff is done, so keep busy, no matter what. Force yourself to, it'll be better, I promise. It sucks, I know. I love being high on opiates, I fucking love it.

The Tramadol will help, but then you gotta taper yourself off that, too. I've tapered off Oxy and Heroin using 5mg Percocet and I've been able to wean myself to zero in 7 days with virtually no discomfort, but everyone is different, so I can't say what will work for you. Plus I am by no means a sober person at this point; I do opiates every weekend, so maybe some others here will chip in on what works for them. Good luck, regardless.

ZodiacKiller

BTW, shaun, what you said about your doctor: that's fucking funny man! When me and the wife went in for our Suboxone induction, the doc told us "well, now instead of your dealer getting all your money, I get a nice cut!". He's kind of a smart ass I found out, but what he said definitely has some truth to it. Even with insurance we're still paying close to six bucks per 8mg tab.

[opiobsessed]

Everybody has a good point about my situation, however the only thing that sucks and is holding me back from tapering off subs and going full tilt or just back on vicodin is the darn money issue. It sucks not having a reliable steady income, otherwise I would be copping vicodin all the time, I already know how to do a good cwe so I would save my liver no problem. Heck my sub doctor knows I've lapsed time and time again but he just seems to care that I dont get buzzed on anything. Thats the sad thing he kind of has me stuck because he knows I am not well enough to endure tapering off the subs and stay off everything long enough to go back on the vicodin and get a nice full buzz again, thats why he has me on the dose he has me on. He did that because I found out that I can easily get a nice buzz with little wd when I was on 4mg suboxone daily. Thats when he upped my dose so that I have so much in me that even after a week almost I still dont get much buzz off anything. Like when I was in the hospital and on 2mg morphine for 5 days, he sure got me off quick after that, so I'm guessing that even if I had to waste some vicodin to keep the sub wd away that after a week the vicodin could be upped in dose so I could get high again. Now if only I could get a darn steady income coming in I could have fun, and I darn well deserve it after this hell I went through. I'm just dying to get buzzed bigtime right now, I'm determined I'm going to find some how or way to get off again, I'm definately not done partying yet that's for sure. I still have dreams and hopes of an opiated future, I believed in it the first two times I hated being in rehab and I scored bigtime when I got out, only a month or less after. "and opiobsessed starts a mystery auction online for people like us to support me and my habit" buy my old stuff for top dollar and help me pay my happy bill.

[shaunclo]

BTW, shaun, what you said about your doctor: that's fucking funny man! When me and the wife went in for our Suboxone induction, the doc told us "well, now instead of your dealer getting all your money, I get a nice cut!". He's kind of a smart ass I found out, but what he said definitely has some truth to it. Even with insurance we're still paying close to six bucks per 8mg tab.

Even with insurance your paying that much??? I dont get it, I have insurance and my script cost me 20$ flat, regardless of the amount. Thats strange, yah, my new doc kicks some serious ass, he is very cool and cracks jokes all the time.

[shaunclo]

Everybody has a good point about my situation, however the only thing that sucks and is holding me back from tapering off subs and going full tilt or just back on vicodin is the darn money issue. It sucks not having a reliable steady income, otherwise I would be copping vicodin all the time, I already know how to do a good cwe so I would save my liver no problem. Heck my sub doctor knows I've lapsed time and time again but he just seems to care that I dont get buzzed on anything. Thats the sad thing he kind of has me stuck because he knows I am not well enough to endure tapering off the subs and stay off everything long enough to go back on the vicodin and get a nice full buzz again, thats why he has me on the dose he has me on. He did that because I found out that I can easily get a nice buzz with little wd when I was on 4mg suboxone daily. Thats when he upped my dose so that I have so much in me that even after a week almost I still dont get much buzz off anything. Like when I was in the hospital and on 2mg morphine for 5 days, he sure got me off quick after that, so I'm guessing that even if I had to waste some vicodin to keep the sub wd away that after a week the vicodin could be upped in dose so I could get high again. Now if only I could get a darn steady income coming in I could have fun, and I darn well deserve it after this hell I went through. I'm just dying to get buzzed bigtime right now, I'm determined I'm going to find some how or way to get off again, I'm definately not done partying yet that's for sure. I still have dreams and hopes of an opiated future, I believed in it the first two times I hated being in rehab and I scored bigtime when I got out, only a month or less after. "and opiobsessed starts a mystery auction online for people like us to support me and my habit" buy my old stuff for top dollar and help me pay my happy bill.

Opio, are you disabled? Cant you get a job, Im not trying to pry, but trust me, you dont want to sell all your shit cause the day will come when you have none of your stuff that meant a lot to you left, and on top of that you wont have any stashes left either. Then you'll be even more un-happy, and it doesnt sound like that will be good for you.

As much as I hate my job, it makes me feel like I did something worthwhile. If I didnt work, and I just sat home all day long, I would probably shoot myself in the head, cause I wouldnt be able to buy any opies, cigs, hookers, you know, the essentials in life.

[Zoop]

Hey Shaun, how long do you have to wait after taking your last sub before taking any "real" opiates?

I had to go 3 days when I tried that one time last year. It totally totally sucked.

One time I waited only 1 day and it was a total waste of the real dope. I dint get nuttin'


Opiobsessed - glad to hear you're back, at least. That thing that happened to you - I thought about that before. I guess it's exactly how I thought. Man, I don't think I'd be able to count on the hospital nursing and doctor staff to understand that someone who is on a partial antagonist (god forbid something like naltrexone - a pure antagonist) would need a MUCH bigger dose of opiates for pain relief than someone who is opiate-naive.

Maybe I should get me one of those little cards they make that you carry in your wallet that say "I am on suboxone and it is a partial antagonist. If you need to give me dope for any reason, then make it a BIG DOSE!" - or something to that effect.

I saw those cards at my doc's office. I think I'll get one.

[shaunclo]

Hey Shaun, how long do you have to wait after taking your last sub before taking any "real" opiates?

I had to go 3 days when I tried that one time last year. It totally totally sucked.

One time I waited only 1 day and it was a total waste of the real dope. I dint get nuttin'


Since I am on only 1 mg a day, I can wake up and not take my dose for the day and feel any opiate whatsoever. I cant say that I would feel it as much as anyone else who isnt on subs, but I DEFINITELY do feel it strong. When I take a break from my subs and do a little binging, as the days go on I feel the opies get stronger and stronger, but its not that much of a difference.

If you are taking more than 8mg a day for an extended amount of time (like a month or more) than it would probably take a good couple of days for it to get out of your system. I have a very fast metabolism though, maybe that plays a big role in the fact that I can feel opies after only 1 day of no subs.

[psychotiKK]

Man I don't understand suboxone at all.. I mean you're taking a 1mg dose? I'm on 16mg and this is the first time I've been having withdrawal symptoms. It's not just me either.. I was ok last week, but even two weeks ago I told my doctor 16mg wasn't enough. I mean, I haven't abused ANY opiate since I quit pods and I've been on subs for two months. For awhile at first it was great.. I mean I didnt have any morphine in me for 5 days and was fiending, but it really felt good. Not full agonist good, but you know.. I was NODDING off 4mg and happy again. No horrible depression, felt no need for any other opiates, and even felt a little high off it. Tolerance to this shot up so fast and easy for me. I've even taken 24mg in subs to see if it would really have much effect.. and it didn't. I know theres a ceiling effect, which is supposidely at 32mg. Alright I've been depressed normally for awhile now because of certain things.. and today I felt like i was dopesick. Also I sleep alot.. I haven't slept in 2 days which is the most I've ever gone. I just can't comfortably sleep. This is WHILE I'm only taking suboxone too.. I'm getting so fucking frustrated.. I felt like killing myself today because I haven't been happy in awhile and know I wont be for along time.. now with the sub not doing much for my opiate addiction.. I'm kind of fucked. I really feel like I'm gonna loose it lately.. I just can't believe some people.. people I love and trust always end up fucking me over.. my ex girlfriend of 20 months who I cared so much about dumped me and doesn't care. She doesn't even talk to me anymore. She's "mad at me" because I said fuck you, when I had every reason to. I got no one to relate to me or help.. I have no money and live off my parents.. dont go to school or work at the moment.. too depressed/sick. My parents will never help me get on methadone. I might be able to pay for it if I worked.. but I'm so emotionallly fucked right now I need it bad. I literally feel like every girl is gona pretend to love me then just leave me in the end at random. I got my suboxone doctor and his assistants always telling me to cheer up and be happy, go to NA meetings no matter how I feel. Well I felt like I would be unhappy the rest of my life or for along time. It's so hard to find a nice girl here, they are so snobby and have rich parents.. I got a girl to love me more then anything to never wanting to talk to me again. All I wanna do right now.. is get high.. I'm going nuts.. all i have is suboxone and so far it hasnt done anything for me.. I was thinking about trying IV but I know nothing about needles or where to get them.. I need relief cuz im going through so much pain for so long.. and how suboxone works great for a few weeks then drops off to practically nothing a month later while increasing the dosage?

I actually have 10mg of hydrocodone.. i know its nothing at all.. but im tryin to think if theres anyway I could get a cross potentiation here with the sub and hydros.. but the bupe would knock it off i think.. I also have some old poppy seeds but its only 200 grams at the most which probably wouldnt do much unless combined iwth other stuff.. too bad i can't combine anything with bupe.. so should I try IV or what? I've used them nasally and sublingually. I dont know which one works better really.. I feel like the nalaxone is making the bupe not work well at higher doses. We are taking higher doses of the nalaxone too.. would that be possible?

[shaunclo]

Smaller amounts of bup provide more of an affect than higher doses. This is a fact (for me atleast) When I was on 24 mg's a day, I didnt feel anything. In fact I never notied anything from suboxone until I got down to about 2-4 mg's a day.

The biggest problem I see here with the depression and evrything is the fact that LIFE IS DEPRESSING!! When your use to getting opiated all day long, you forget that when you get sober or soberish, you are going to have to deal with the every day-to-day depression. I remember telling my dad years back that I was so fuckin depressed and I thought there was something wrong with me, he turned to me and yelled, "EVERYONE IS FUCKIN DEPRESSED!!!" At the time I was just thinking, what an asshole, but now I understand what he was talking about. When you are high, most of the time you are numb to fellings of depression, boredom, lonliness, etc. When you get sober, or go on suboxone it is hard to start to deal with emotions again. One day you can be feeling great, the next you want to hang yourself. You just have to take a day at a time, and enjoy the good times when they come, and work on keeping your head up the rest of the time. ITS FUCKIN HARD, I KNOW!!!

I would take the easy way out if I had the money to stay high 24/7, but I dont, so I cant. So what I do is take my suboxone when I have to, and take little binges every couple of months. I work my ass off to keep this up (mostly living in southern Cali) and I have to say that I feel depressed more than 1/2 the time I am awake. Its just the way it is. You have to take care of yourself, cant depend on your girlfriend, or your friends cause theres no promise they will be there forever. It sounds like there are a lot of people in holes so deep that they dont know how to get out. I wish I had an answer for you guys, but I dont. All I can say is that I know what its like, and it does get better. Try and think of something you want (new car, moving, vacation) and start working towards that goal. If all your thinking about is, I wanna get high, I wann aget high, well than you better be rich, otherwise you get high when you can, and when you cant you cant, and you just have to deal with it.

I hope Im not sounding harsh, it just makes me sad that there are so many people on here that want to hurt themselves just because they think there is no hope, there is always hope......no matter how dark it seems.:)

[ZodiacKiller]

I would take the easy way out if I had the money to stay high 24/7, but I dont, so I cant. So what I do is take my suboxone when I have to, and take little binges every couple of months. I work my ass off to keep this up (mostly living in southern Cali) and I have to say that I feel depressed more than 1/2 the time I am awake. Its just the way it is. You have to take care of yourself, cant depend on your girlfriend, or your friends cause theres no promise they will be there forever. It sounds like there are a lot of people in holes so deep that they dont know how to get out. I wish I had an answer for you guys, but I dont. All I can say is that I know what its like, and it does get better. Try and think of something you want (new car, moving, vacation) and start working towards that goal. If all your thinking about is, I wanna get high, I wann aget high, well than you better be rich, otherwise you get high when you can, and when you cant you cant, and you just have to deal with it.
I hope Im not sounding harsh, it just makes me sad that there are so many people on here that want to hurt themselves just because they think there is no hope, there is always hope......no matter how dark it seems.:)

Fuckin-A, Shaun...words to live by. I know a lot of people that live in those deep holes you speak of, and I REFUSE to let it happen to me. As I said in another recent thread, I walk a fine line, and came close to the edge more than a few times, but I fucking will not let the drug control me. I love opiates, no question, but I'm not willing to sacrifice everything I've worked so hard for just for drugs. So far so good. And I get high every weekend.

I wanna have my cake and eat it, too!

ZodiacKiller

[shaunclo]

Fuckin-A, Shaun...words to live by. I know a lot of people that live in those deep holes you speak of, and I REFUSE to let it happen to me. As I said in another recent thread, I walk a fine line, and came close to the edge more than a few times, but I fucking will not let the drug control me. I love opiates, no question, but I'm not willing to sacrifice everything I've worked so hard for just for drugs. So far so good. And I get high every weekend.

I wanna have my cake and eat it, too!

ZodiacKiller

Thats the best way to put it, you just have to tell yourself, I REFUSE TO LET MYSELF GO DOWN!!!

If your fuckin depressed, do something about it. Wallowing in your own depression will only make it worse. I was on that threshold for 3 FUCKIN YEARS!!!! On the last year I wanted to kill myself every morning I woke up, Im not kidding. I actually tried many times. I went on drives that I did not intend to come back from. It came down to the fact that I just didnt have enough balls to do it. But every time I tried I got closer and closer. Literally, Suboxone saved my life.

[psychotiKK]

No that wasn't harsh at all man.. I really appreciated it actually.. I completely broke down this morning.. it felt exactly like when I would break down in morphine withdrawals...EXACTLY the same feeling.. see I have normal depression.. I can handle that. I just feel down, not happy, sad, ect. Then I have my disease where if I don't get enough opiates in me I get like I did this morning.. I feel completely psychotic. I'll cry non stop, really think there is no hope so I think about killing myself (i only feel like this when I have something terrible happen in my life, but it goes away fast.. it doesn't stick with me like our disease) I won't eat, wont sleep, I feel like if I don't get the help I need I'm going to do something completely insane and actually follow through. That's the way I felt when I was going through pod withdrawal, but this was even worse. First I've been really depressed about stuff that happened in my life, then I have the struggle with my addiction. I'm on bupe, but I'm still getting these psychotic depressive moods like if I were in a terrible w/d from H. From the time I've been on subs.. 2 months or so.. the effect of them went away fast. I would keep upping my dose and I would get back some relief, but never get the great effect. So what do I do? I'm constantly upping my dose. The problem is.. I think I'm blocked at 16mg. If I can't get anything more from the suboxone, then obviously I'm going to get worse because of tolerance and other things.

What if the subs stop working even if I'm on the highest dose possible? What if I get those psychotic moods that feel like a part of terrible w/d, occurs multiple times a week? What if it gets worse and worse? I would think it means I need methadone.. my rents are completely against it even though they let my sister on it. She had a worse habbit then me, but it's not like I have some easy problem here. I got this disease like many of us have. I hear everyone gets relief on methadone and how it saved their lives. I also hear about how addictive, evil, and how horrible the w/ds are. The thing is, if I'm feeling the psychotic depressive feelings all the time.. don't you think it would be worth going on 'done?

I'm hoping that problem goes away.. but it concerns me since I keep upping the bupe and not getting the relief I need. I've tried lesser doses like 8mg and 4mg, but it just feels weaker to me. Are you taking suboxone? If you get a better effect out of lower doses, wouldn't that be because of the nalaxone? Otherwise I don't see how it would make sense.. heh

You guys think I should try to IV it and see if it gives me relief? I thought the nalaxone would have a huge effect on it, but blahblah says it doesn't..

[psychotiKK]

Thats the best way to put it, you just have to tell yourself, I REFUSE TO LET MYSELF GO DOWN!!!

If your fuckin depressed, do something about it. Wallowing in your own depression will only make it worse. I was on that threshold for 3 FUCKIN YEARS!!!! On the last year I wanted to kill myself every morning I woke up, Im not kidding. I actually tried many times. I went on drives that I did not intend to come back from. It came down to the fact that I just didnt have enough balls to do it. But every time I tried I got closer and closer. Literally, Suboxone saved my life.

I've been depressed for most of my life.. I'm on paxil cr 75mg a day, suboxone 16mg daily, and klonopin 2x daily (i only take it if i really need it) My doc wants me to add another 150mg of wellbutrin XL onto the paxil. I hate being on all these meds and still feel depressed, then having horrible depression from lack of opiates in my system.. what is the best way to get the most out of subs? Shoot em? Get rid of the naloxone then IV? Sublingually? I know everyone is different so I guess it's a bad question..

Let's say I score some opiates and want to use.. don't I have to stop for 3 days, take the opiates, wait another 3 days, then go back on the sub? Doesn't it feel really fucking shitty to go back on the sub? Also.. a total of 6 days without subs just to use some opiates? I don't know how I could do that.. or do can you just take like 2mg a day for awhile.. then use some opiates the next day after?

[ZodiacKiller]

Let's say I score some opiates and want to use.. don't I have to stop for 3 days, take the opiates, wait another 3 days, then go back on the sub? Doesn't it feel really fucking shitty to go back on the sub? Also.. a total of 6 days without subs just to use some opiates? I don't know how I could do that.. or do can you just take like 2mg a day for awhile.. then use some opiates the next day after?

Actually, you do not have to wait 3 days to use opiates. My wife will take, say, 4mgs Sub in the morning on Friday, and by Friday night we'll be snorting heroin. She has no bad reaction, BUT she has to use more H to get high because of the blocking effects of the Sub. It's going back to the Sub after using opiates that the problem can occur. You MUST wait 'till the physical withdrawal begins (and you have to be careful not to let the mental aspects of w/d fool you) before taking it. And it's not like you have to be in puking, writhing on the floor wishing-you-were-dead withdrawal, either. Just wait till you start getting stomach rumblings, chills, and the whole yawning-eyes-watering thing---THEN it should be ok. That's what we do, anyway, and we have NEVER had precipitated withdrawal from the Suboxone (I take it, too, after, say, a 4 day heroin binge---I usually take 2-4mgs the next day and after that, I am fine).

The thing about going back to Sub after using opiates for anyone with a serious addiction, is that you have to take enough of it the first dose to get back to baseline, then maintain. For instance: The next day after above-mentioned heroin binge, my wife will take anywhere from 6-10mgs of Suboxone AT FIRST, then once she feels normal (ie. no withdrawal) she takes 1-2mgs whenever minor w/d begins to appear so she doesn't feel sick. I hope this makes sense and doesn't confuse you more.....

ZodiacKiller

[shaunclo]

You dont need to stop for 3 days, what I do is NOT take my sub dose and take an opiate dose instead. Maybe Ill feel it maybe I wont, but after a a day and 1/2 youll start to feel it a little bit better, than better and so on. What you need is a good week supply, so you might waste a couple of days doses of whatever it is your taking, but youll start to feel it as the days pass.

Or you can try and take as little sub as possible, just to keep the w/d's away and just keep in mind that if you feel a little shitty, its gonna be worth the wait.

I wouldnt personally shoot subs, but thats because I get subutex. BUT, if all I had was suboxone, I would try it but you need a big syringe and a fuck load of water. The stuff doesnt disolve very well. Do not try shooting more than 2-4 mg's at a time.


I've been depressed for most of my life.. I'm on paxil cr 75mg a day, suboxone 16mg daily, and klonopin 2x daily (i only take it if i really need it) My doc wants me to add another 150mg of wellbutrin XL onto the paxil. I hate being on all these meds and still feel depressed, then having horrible depression from lack of opiates in my system.. what is the best way to get the most out of subs? Shoot em? Get rid of the naloxone then IV? Sublingually? I know everyone is different so I guess it's a bad question..

Let's say I score some opiates and want to use.. don't I have to stop for 3 days, take the opiates, wait another 3 days, then go back on the sub? Doesn't it feel really fucking shitty to go back on the sub? Also.. a total of 6 days without subs just to use some opiates? I don't know how I could do that.. or do can you just take like 2mg a day for awhile.. then use some opiates the next day after?

[bi11i]

I just experienced something similar (http://www.junkylife.com/bi11i/index.php/2006/03/26/kidney-stones/). Kidney stones on Sat, on 8mg's of buprenorphine and couldn't feel the dilaudid. Finally, the third shot helped and pushed the bup from me much, much quicker than if I just would've waited. Proves to me that it is possible to push past it, just not easy and certainly a waste if you're buying dope.

[opiobsessed]

wow that sounds miserable Bii, did you by chance know what dose of dilaudid they gave you? well I dont know what the heck is wrong with me these days but suboxone is sadly quickly becoming just a barely useable maintenance drug since I got out of the hospital from my major horror a few weeks ago. I finally have all 19 or 20 of my staples out of my stomach, luckily that didn't hurt bad. However after all the lame dosages of hydromorphone, dilaudid, toridol and 40mg of methadone a few doses before I went home seems to have done something. When I waited only 24 hours in wd from the methadone like my suboxone doc said to, it was almost a painless switch back to suboxone, the suboxone worked ok after that for a few days but now more and more every day I am getting almost nothing from my daily sub dose. I was put on the max sub dose for pain for a week after getting out of the hospital(32 mg) 4 pills of 8mg sub daily. I started noticing last week that I am starting to get strange slight sweating at night, some chills during the day when awake and thinking about vicodin all the time now, depressed almost like before I even took opiates for depression in the 1st place and no or little ambition at all to do anything anymore. Now I know if I tell this to my sub doctor he will just give me the usual go to na aa bull, but I quit going to that bs long ago after that one time. I'm a few keystrokes away from getting a new card in my name so my family doesn't know, and giving myself a long deserved vacation from these subs and ordering as much vicodin as I can get my hands on, quitting these subs cold turkey and just getting wasted but not insanely sick either. I think you guys are all right I dont think I really want to be on these subs at all, I just want a full agonist. Sad thing is being self employed sucks at least for this junky. Got in trouble selling cars, selling stuff on *&bay sucks and I just need a darn break. Its too bad I've had such unusual rotten experiences with people in the past because now I'm afraid to even meet anyone new who could even hook me up. I'm determined after what I went through at the hospital etc, I'm going to protest against this country's stupid war on drugs or something. Its insane how my local hospital skimps so bad on pain meds, either because of their dumb rules or the dea has them scared one or the other, either way even one nurse told me she was surprised at how I was skimped on pain meds so bad. Well strangely this year started out great for me, but now this crap, I hope some magic happens as soon as possible and I get opiated out until my brain explodes with cozy, warm, happy, exciting ambition until I'm so full of money that I can afford any "luxury". Man this sucks, this is about as bad as hell itself.

[Curio]

You know, I don't know how long you've been taking the antidepressants, but I've found that when I take an SSRI or even when I tried adrafinil (cheaper version of modafinil for narcolepsy), it actually worked AGAINST my opiates and I found myself in withdrawals after just a few days on each medication!

Sucks too, cause when you have weird, different, or even a so called "paradoxical" reaction to meds (you're taking an opiate) and asking for more...the doctors don't even want to consider that it's really THE TRUTH.

Also, if you've been taking paxil for awhile or any other anti-depressant and it's not working after say 4 weeks...ASK FOR SOMETHING DIFFERENT! JMHO, for what it's worth....There are also those warnings which state that you can actually GET DEPRESSED and suicidal FROM THE SSRI's and other meds that're similar...

Some things you may want to think about ^^^^^^

[chemboy7]

^Chances are the w/d will get worse for you in the next 2 days. If you can get some Immodium AD (which contains loperamide--it's technically an opiate but doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier), take like triple the directed dosage. This can help with mild w/d symptoms immensely (worked for me anyway)--it may constipate you, but IMO it's better than all the bowel activity that accompanies withdrawal. Also, benzos can help immensely for the anxiety and insomnia, however, you must be careful with these as they have their own set of issues, which I'm not gonna detail here. But they also helped me immensely. And I don't know if you have access to them.

The Talwin MAY help. I don't know that much about this drug, but what I have read makes me think that it may harm more than help you at this point. Maybe someone else with knowledge of this one can answer.

Good luck to you---kicking Oxys is a bitch, as I know firsthand.

ZodiacKiller

BTW, Opiobsessed, I gotta agree with shaunclo on this one. The whole bupe/dope/back to bupe thing is a vicious cycle and will bite you in the ass in the end. I'd just stick with the Vics, and stockpile your bupe 'till you're ready to really quit. It will work if you use it properly. I'm actually surprised you got scripted Subxone for a hydrocodone addiction.


Talwin usually contains Naltrexone to prevent abuse, this would be bad for WDs.