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Tea Time
06-30-2008, 11:35 PM
I saw this on ABCNews Nightline and thought that it was really interesting. I have always wondered why no other agencies have ever tried anything like this before - especially when they see how effective police cruiser-mounted dash board cameras are.

I actually think that this is a good idea. With no ability to alter what is recorded, it ensures that the ENTIRE truth will be revealed about an incident...and not just the "selective" truth that the police officer wants the judge/jury to see. I really do think that these cameras will protect citizens as well. This will show the demeanor of the officer and his actions - as well as yours. For example, it should help to eliminate situations in which police officers say that suspects were "acting aggressive" when in all actuality they were not.

Pesonally, I think that every additional system of "checks-and-balances" that we have to ensure that people - both citizens and police - are protected is a good thing. What do you guys think?


ABCNews - Caught On Tape - An Officer-Eye View (http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/Story?id=3661409&page=1)


Crimes Caught On Tape, From The Officer's Point Of View

A Program in England Puts Cameras on the Helmets of Cops, With Remarkable Effects

By: NICK WATT
Sept. 27, 2007
(ABCNEWS.com)

Plymouth - These days, it's possible to get an officer's eye-view as a police officer breaks up a fight. How can you wrestle a man to the ground and film it at the same time?

You wear the camera on your head.

In Plymouth, on England's south coast, the police are testing this revolutionary new crime-fighting tool.

So far, they like what they see.

"Without being crude, it's in your face," said police officer Tony Brown.

It most certainly is. On one quiet Sunday night, the camera captured an arrest in progress; an officer calmly addresses two people who are both yelling and cursing at him.

"All right, calm down," says the officer.

"You ain't welcome back here so fuck off," says the man being arrested.

"You can actually show what that person was like at the moment they were being dealt with by the officer, as opposed to the clean, well-presented individual as they show up at court," said Zoe Bateman, the leader of the Head Cam Project.


Caught In The Act

The U.K. already bristles with more than 4 million surveillance cameras, and most people in Plymouth welcome this new frontier in surveillance.

"The only people who would find it intrusive are people who are doing something wrong," said one person.

The police are proud of their new toy.

"So I could record something and then go back to it five minutes later. Say there was a fight or

something. "I can say, he's the ringleader. He's the one who started it. So we'd have an instant arrest."

One of the main advantages of these head cams is the amount of time they save. Whatever Brown records on his camera -- whether it's a fight or an arrest in the city center -- he'll take that back to the police station, where the video is downloaded.

With this video there's now no longer a need for a written statement, and that can save a police officer about an hour every day in paperwork. And the head-cam video is admissible as evidence, so officers don't have to spend time going to court to testify verbally. They just send in the video.

Recently, a woman in Plymouth was the first person prosecuted using a head-cam video. She was seen through a mail slot strangling her boyfriend. When she saw the video she pleaded guilty and was sentenced to six months in jail. The whole process from crime to conviction took just 17 days.


At The Scene Of The Crime

"Members of the jury actually get put back at the scene of the crime," said Detective Sgt. Steve Foale from the Domestic Violence Investigative Unit.

He also points out that in domestic abuse cases, the victim often doesn't need to go through the ordeal of testifying in court.

"A lot of domestic violence incidents tend to be drink-fueled. And when you show the suspect sober what they've done when they're been drunk, it's really 'impactive' and often you get a very early guilty plea," said Foale.

Convictions for violent crime in Plymouth are up 26 percent since the program launched.

"No matter how good you are at actually writing a full-written statement, you cannot beat the audio and visual from the head-camera evidence," said Bateman. "You cannot say, 'Well, it wasn't me. I didn't say that, I didn't do that.' They are putting their hands up if they know they've committed that crime.

They're putting their hands up at a much earlier opportunity and pleading guilty."


On Their Best Behavior

But it's not all drugs, fights and abuse. Brown said just wearing the head cam leads to respect, even if it isn't rolling.

"Once they notice it their whole demeanor changes, their attitude changes," he said. "As soon as they see it, they stop what they're doing."

And there's one more thing. We asked the boss if police behavior has also improved.

"We haven't had a single complaint against any officer who has been wearing the head cam," said Assistant Chief Constable Bob Spencer.

Why? Maybe because the officer's eye-view shows everything. The watchers are also being watched.

WarmCyanide
06-30-2008, 11:41 PM
i agree with you.

irish
06-30-2008, 11:47 PM
This is a great idea, while the majority of cops are honest, there are some real assholes out there who abuse the badge. I would rather be held accountable for being an idiot than for something I didn't do. Hopefully this will help weed out some of the bad cops that most of us have encountered. The police work for us, they should be held accountable by us. When they act badly, they should be the frightened ones, not the citizen who is having their rights violated. The government should be scared by the populace, not the other way around. We put them in power, and we can take them out.

SurfRat
06-30-2008, 11:56 PM
Maybe...

I don't mean to be cynical here but cops have been known to edit.

Tea Time
07-01-2008, 12:16 AM
Maybe...

I don't mean to be cynical here but cops have been known to edit.

I agree with you. That was actually my first thought initially when I was watching this story. I figured that the police could manipulate and alter the video to suit their own personal agenda. But from what I was able to gather by reading this article and a few others, the police are unable to alter or manipulate the video.

They said that it was also digitally downloaded back at police headquarters. So I think that should at least prevent anyone from attempting to make changes after the fact as well.

The one thing that would be even better is if the images and video recorded by the head-cams was transferred directly via WI-FI or something so that images were recorded and saved at a secure facility instantly.

It might not be perfect, but all-in-all I think that it is a good thing. It is better than the alternative, which is the police officer's word over ours. In that case, the citizen will almost never come out on top. I think that it is fine though. Let the police officers think that they have these cameras to protect them from "us." In all actuality, the cameras are protecting "us" from them...

Synack
07-01-2008, 01:07 AM
but the real question is, will the public have unrestricted access to these video's?

Dune
07-01-2008, 02:12 AM
I like it...I like it alot. Keep them pigs honest. I am always polite to them, and usually get the repsect returned. However there have been 2 times in the past where I would have loved to have had a video of how I was treated after being entirely cooperative. IE: pushed to the ground while my hands were on my truck because he saw my small pocket knife that I carry everyday and was in no way moving towards. Hell, I don't even think about it being there I am so used to it. It is not a weapon and certainly wouldn't be very effective against his 9mm. BTW I was stopped for speeding on I-96.

jacky
07-01-2008, 03:00 AM
yes, this is a good move in my opinion.

recently I was called to jury duty.
I didnt know how I was going to get out of it, as I dont like to act transgressive and outright defiant, and I dont want to claim to be prejudiced at all.

then the defense asked the jury panel if anyone had been lied to, or about by, a police officer.

well two cops and a multitude of jocks lied and filed a false report against me when I got punched from the side(sucker punched) and kneed in the balls by a guy no shit at least 100 pounds bigger than me, and a weight lifter/boxer from hell to boot.
they even went as far as to say that I threw the first open palmed bitch slap.
in reality I was the only one punched or kicked, I didnt have time to do anything, as the cops were standing right behind us, and watched the whole fucking thing.

so I got hauled off to jail along with the perpetrator, as the snearing jock mass claimed I threw the first "punch"

this was back in 92, I was a skateboarder, with a shaved head, dressed in all black, with a sleeveless t-shirt, and tattoos.
this was a few years before it was cool to look this way, when most people in my state thought that having a shaved head meant that you were a nazi skinhead from up north.
that is why I got fucked by a crowd of people, and two cops decided to screw me as well.
I had to plead guilty, as the judge and prosecution wanted to punish me for some reason and kept re-scheduling the trial.
they cut a deal with me, guilty of disturbing the peace.

a few years later I was harrassed, mildly beat, and arrested by some rookies that I walked three blocks to talk to after they flagged me down.
sweet vengance was mine, I one that court case. public apology, but no following court case, I proved my point.

with cameras there, maybe something would have been different.

and then sadly a few years after these experiences of mine, a kid named justin got his head blown off all over his freind, when they tried to start the car and take off with a cop halfway hanging out their window.
rambo cop.
this guy shot Justins head off.
the kid sitting bitch got 5 years in prison for saying "go"
well, maybe justin could have been more careful around this cop, I dont hold it against him, but he acted out.
but his brother a few years later didnt deserve this statement by the cop that killed his brother.
see, me and Cody, Justins brother, were hanging out spanging around the jock bars.
the cop that killed his brother was taken off the downtown beat after being found not guilty of any wrong doing.
this was a few years later, and it was the cops first night back on his downtown beat. he had a crew of other officers living it up. I think they were drunk.
the cop saw Cody, this poor kid who was fucked up, homeless, and smacked out, amongst all the other drugs, walked up to him, and told him that he shouldve killed cody as well, and that justin deserved everything he got.
what type of cop tries to actually jump in a car that is about take off at high speed.? a fucking fool.
the cop acted irrationally, and is one of the lowest human beings I know. right below the skinhead named nick the dick that murdered a black man in Utah.

maybe some video presence would have helped Justin, I dont know, maybe nothing couldve helped justin but himself, but that stupid cop didnt help matters.

the few years after Justin's 2nd degree MURDER, cops in my town went on an on the job, and off the job rampage, some people might have deserved the bullets, others did not under any circumstances.
our little city ranked 4th in the nation for suspicious cop homicides for about 2 years straight.

to say the least I co-operated with the cops as much as possible when "on their time" without narcing anyone out. I was arrested/incarcerated, pulled over, searched at least 10 times within a few years, the nicest guys I dealt with, were actually the DEA.
the DEA hassled me when they found me using at a freind house who was on probation.
I must stress that all my crimes were pussy ass petty crimes. I have no felonies, just misdemeanors. the DEA didnt see the dope in my mouth the hour that they were there, they threw away all the pills I was saving for kicking dope, and actually, one cop was reluctant to take my stash of kick aids. he was a junky too once, and felt something for me. they gave me a ticket for about 20 spoons that I had luckily cleaned, and let me go.
I was able to shoot up in the basement after they left as I watched them sit in their car waiting to see if the mexicans would stop by right after we left. the cool dea agent might have seen the dope in my mouth, and not really wanted to get involved.
it was funny, cause when we came back to the house after scoring in the morning, we walked right past the dea agents, thinking that they were going to some of the other junky apartments.

so while I think that NOT having cameras around sometimes might help guilty parties avoid more trouble, it cannot be important as having cameras around to help save lives.
I would rather depend on the mercy of another human than cold chance and lying to save my ass.

the problem would be, are the cameras rolling in the bathroom, or during lunch. cops use these moments to plant and pull their sordid scenarios quite well.
a cop can clock off the schedule before he even gets back to the jail, I have seen it happen. they call into their buddies in the force, and have them do it for them.

technology is going to make the bad cops jobs harder.

I have had some good cops rush to the scene of civilian arrests for shoplifting, hoping to actually catch the store clerks in the act of illegal battery. one cop almost sounded bummed that I hadnt been beat up. he wanted to help me sue the store if any wrong doing had happened, and asked me more than once if I thought I shouldnt just go the hospital just in case I thought my back hurt from being tackled by a 20 year old football player. basically it sounded like he was suggesting a whiplash scenario.
ha ha. shit like that doesnt enter my mind. its too much hassle.

so yeah, fuck yeah, robo cop cameras and maybe some leashes that tighten when the bad cops eventually work their way into some bullshit.
you know, the activated collar/leash that tightens via radio control.
and ice that cop cock.

in my little city we finally got a community liason between the suspicious community and the police dept.
things have gotten ALOT better.
I havnt gotten hassled for anything in the last 8 years except for playing on my hindu conch shell at dusk.
the cop just sneared when I told him it was a way of how I pray, I would like to have that incident on digital video.
it was still 10 minutes till the noise ordinance was active, and I was in a public park. there were all sorts of people still in the park, but this cop singled me out.
he told me that I looked like I wanted some attention.
this was strange and scary to me. this guy hated me from the start.
If I was Indian or middle eastern I probably wouldve have gone to jail.

besides some bad incidences, after the year 2000, things seem alot different. maybe its cause I am older, and married, and dont look like your average sickly junky. mostly its cause I live in a 95% white city in Idaho that is full of yuppies and gays/lesbians/hippies. the gangster element is 30 miles away.
the cops are still bored here, but they are not as dangerous.

I hope.
I still will want more cameras though. it cant hurt.

Nate
07-01-2008, 09:44 AM
^^Well said!

Assuming they aren't editing the tapes, this is a great thing!

So now when we say no to an unlawful search, we'll actually have proof. Among other things.

nick
07-01-2008, 10:30 AM
Yeah,they did a pilot of this in Leeds and it didn't really make much difference.Cameras are not there for anyones protection they're a cheap form of behavioural control.

Opiyum
07-01-2008, 01:09 PM
What a great idea. I've been in plenty of situations where I wish I had a camera.
I don't think the police would like it much if everyone they pulled over whipped out a camera. Now the bastards have no choice.