Tell me about rehab.

[krinkov]

First off, I know there is a section just for posts like this, but since I would actually like an answer to my questions, I opted to post here. (There aren't any posts in that section and I highly doubt that it's a very popular section)

So, I am beginning to realize that my opiate usage is getting out of control. I either need to exert some self control and cut back, or I need to just quit all together. I am truly afraid of quiting. I don't know what my life will be like without opiates. Will I ever be as happy as when I have a good opiate high? Will I ever have ambition like I do when I'm high? What about my social life? Will I be as outgoing and personable as when I'm high? These are the things that scare me. (Besides the horrible withdrawals!)

So, what all is involved with an outpatient rehab? What do they give you for the withdrawals? Do the drugs for that work? How long does it take to go through the system? Does it really work? What goes on your record? (As an avid firearms collector, this is very important to me. Any kind of blip on my record could get my entire collect confiscated. ) Any kind of info would be appreciated.

On the other hand, I can force myself to cut back and lower my tolerance. I really have no self control and that is why I'm in the situation I am in. So, what could I do to cut back? Any ideas on how to force myself? Is this a feasible option, or am I just going to have to bite the bullet and quit all together?

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

[Pantopon Pete]

I can't tell you much, as I've only personally been through an 8-day medical detox, which was a part of a research studt, and MMT.

What I can tell you is that there isn't really such a thing as outpatient rehab. There's IOP (intensive outpatient) which really just consists of endless combinations of individual and group therapy sessions coupled with various court-type drug and alcohol classes. I know this because it was given to me as an ultimatum to remain in MMT the first time I was on it. It was 4.5 hrs/day, 4 days/wk. NO thank you, ma'am. And I don't know of any IOP program that offers any sort of medical detox or maintenance.

Matter of fact, it's rare that you'll even find an inpatient program that will do much more than a 5,6,7-day 'done detox, tapered quickly to no meds at all, or possibly some light prn type meds. The last 28-day inpatient prog I looked into locally doesn't offer any kind of narcotic detox, just stuff for specific wd symptoms, and maybe some light sleep/anxiety meds.

I've had the best results with MMT, which I've been on for 6 mos. now, without using dope at all.

[krinkov]

I can't tell you much, as I've only personally been through an 8-day medical detox, which was a part of a research studt, and MMT.

What I can tell you is that there isn't really such a thing as outpatient rehab. There's IOP (intensive outpatient) which really just consists of endless combinations of individual and group therapy sessions coupled with various court-type drug and alcohol classes. I know this because it was given to me as an ultimatum to remain in MMT the first time I was on it. It was 4.5 hrs/day, 4 days/wk. NO thank you, ma'am. And I don't know of any IOP program that offers any sort of medical detox or maintenance.

Matter of fact, it's rare that you'll even find an inpatient program that will do much more than a 5,6,7-day 'done detox, tapered quickly to no meds at all, or possibly some light prn type meds. The last 28-day inpatient prog I looked into locally doesn't offer any kind of narcotic detox, just stuff for specific wd symptoms, and maybe some light sleep/anxiety meds.

I've had the best results with MMT, which I've been on for 6 mos. now, without using dope at all.

What is "MMT"?

[jdub]

What is "MMT"?

Methadone Maintenace Treatment

I have never been to outpatient rehab. I did 90 day inpatient at a nice rehab and enjoyed it and stayed off opis for more than 18 months.

My friend did for court and it was just classes/ therapy and testing. He stayed sober but he isn't on opis. He likes coke/ booze.

[Suboxstitute]

Well, I'll add some input on a program using bupe (suboxone or subutex; suboxone being the more common)

First - it sort of sounds like you talking about INPATIENT rehab. However, unless you have money to spend to go to a nice, longer-stay place, few insurances will cover anything more than a few days inpatient/residential.

I know people who had the money and did go to a "nice" inpatient rehab facility, and they pretty much liked it; they got some "comfort meds" to help some w/the withdrawals, and group sessions, and at the really nice places, I hear it can be somewhat of a spa atmosphere. This is REHAB I am talking here, not DETOX. Going into DETOX for a few days is a whole different story; basically, it is quitting CT with some medical supervision and MAYBE something for the withdrawal symtoms (like clonadine for blood pressure, MAYBE something like valium... maybe.)

At the clinic I go to, they have two options: (ONE) 2-3 inpatient stay where you detox and get started on suboxone under supervision, in a nice hospital wing that doesn't look like a hospital. More like a hotel. OR - IOP (the intensive outpatient program) where you go for (at my place) 3.5 hours for 4 days a week for like six weeks. I talked them out of making me do either one.

I was a pillhead; no self control. If I had a bottle of 120 hydros, they were gone in four days. Same with oxy. Seriously? I made MANY attempts to control my usage; I couldn't. I think that is, like, definition #1 of an addict. I'll be straight up with you - I don't think most people can. It's either all, or nothing once you get to the point of daily, medium-to-heavy use of whatever your DOC is. You really cannot control yourself, unless I suppose you found someone to hold them for you and dole 'em out. You'd drive that person crazy; I would have.

So I talked them into letting me start myself on sub; I see the doctor once a month for a "med check" (sometimes he gets nice and gives me a refill so I can skip a month) and then I also have to see one of their counselors. Then I go to "sub group". Not at all like NA; this is a moderated group where everyone on sub has to go after they finish one of the other programs; I someone got a pass to go straight to sub group after a few months on the stuff.

So it's worked; I havn't really had a relapse. Right now, I want to be off bupe in the worst way; I'm just sick of it. And I don't think I'll go back to using. I don't have an active, legit medical consition like I did when I got addicted, and I don't want to go back to scoring pills other ways. So in that way, I guess the program did its job.

[baysteve]

Outpatient Rehab is usually the very last step after you have completed detox, 30 day treatment, and then they send you to the outpatient phase to keep you in the swing of things. For you, I suggest an inpatient program...I myself have been to "rehab" 15 times..from two day stays all the way to 90 days. They most likely will give you subutex/suboxone and librium for anxiety possibly clonopin for high bloodpressure. I've been to co-ed rehabs and all male rehabs..If you are really serious about getting "sober" I would highly suggest going to an all male rehab, simply for the fact that you can focus on yourself and not get wrapped up in the drama that co-ed rehab centers seem to create..early in recovery we look to replace something for our drug use and that sometimes is sex, What will life be like off opiates? Well I can tell you this, for the six months of clean time I had it was the best fuckin time of my life, after you get over the inital wd and PAW's life really starts to come together. I don't think that going to rehab will significantly do anything to your record as I believe it is protected like any other patient going to the doctor. I guess you really have to assess the situation and ask yourself this "Do I really want to be clean?" Who are you doing this for? What makes you think your addiction is out of control? You really can't force yourself...maybe you can but I sure as hell couldn't. I don't wanna sound like some expert on rehab and recovery...but I've been around the block quite a few times and have a lot of experience with this. Feel free to ask any questions man.

[chopstix]

Including 1 or 2 outpatients, I've been in maybe 8-9 programs (first in early 90 and the last in late 98) not including the really short term, 72hr detoxes. The last one I was in was a state funded program that sat on a beautiful piece of land in California, but suffered largely due to a huge gap in the quality of the counseling/counselors - some groups were simply much better run due to staff experience - my counselor was a moron and started driving a van after I left :) Long story short, that was my last program. I *barely* graduated, I was more kicked out with honors than graduated but I stayed sober and really happy for 7 years, longest sobriety stint by far - most of the time I spent there I spent playing chess and taking long, extended walks through the woods while AWOL, it really had nothing to do with anything they provided me aside from a place to dry out for a couple months and some good players to hang out with and some great hiking.

The reason I stayed sober that time around is because I was simply tired of the life and was in a really serious state of decline and I knew it. I was overdosing a lot, stealing everyday and had been doing it for years, but my scams were starting to dry up, there were several very close brushes with the SFPD and I knew that I didn't want to get tangled up in the CA legal system (I was already in hiding from a slew of cases in another state), it was pretty much get clean or just go check out proper somewhere because I couldn't continue and wasn't too stoked on the idea of moving into San Quentin.

Outpatient treatment has a ridiculously low success rate, especially for opiate and cocaine/speed users. You'd probably save a lot of money by just getting a good therapist and hitting some NA meetings (I have really strong views that aren't very *A friendly, but I do think it has some value). Inpatient treatment can help in a lot of ways, but it's a fabricated environment and once you get back into the real world, you're back with yourself, your life and your bank account. It's amazing how quickly you can forget about the 90 days and $20k you just spent at the local spin-dry.

The time away from the scene has always been of most benefit to me, aside from that inpatient has been mostly about fighting off the boredom between groups and a whole bunch of story telling, pool, spades, chess, AA meetings and lust. My first program dropped 15 of us in the middle of the Washington Cascades during wintertime with 70lb backpacks and cross country skis - no campfires, toilet paper, tents or whining and most of us had never been on XC skis. It was interesting at times, amazing at times but damned hard as well.. Although I'm not a big proponent of inpatient tx in general, I think there are a lot of outdoor oriented behavior examination/modification programs that have a lot of value - not targeted towards any particular personality issue, just a very different change from life for a month or so that usually impacts people pretty deeply.

The reality is that most junkies will use until they're either just fed up and really sick of it, which happens, lots of people just get tired of it and quit; but the truth is the vast majority succumb to it in one way or another, directly or not; health problems, suicide, overdose, prison, wrong place at the wrong time and either dead or in jail. Not trying to be glum here but I've seen the reality and the statistics really aren't very nice.

I gots food to eat, I could go on.. I live with someone who spent three years between minumum security jail and hardcore behavior modification and she's now ok with an occasional drink. I also met someone once who did two consecutive stints at Delancey in SF 'cause he smoked crack the day of his first release, he was there a total of 6 years - that time. It boils down to you. My best "luck" has been getting away long enough to clear my head and then simply trying to stay occupied. In the end it's you that picks up the phone and makes the call..

[Duckfeet]

I know I could post at length about this, but I don't know: I think it's probably good if drugs are causing you problems to do something about it, but I've not been a success story, and didn't even really try to quit until I was much older, but times--and the laws--have changed...I think you kind of half to sit down and think what it is you really want, and what are you willing to do about it.... I never had any luck just doing drugs once in a while: if I could get them I quickly became strungout...but quittiing altogether, which is the only thing that ever seems to work, takes a whole lot, treatment sometimes, just to get some forced time off dope...some of us--me--go to 12 step meetings, like AA or NA, and some--me--are on methadone...but methadone is really kind of for hope-to-die opiate addicts, cuz it's very hard to get off of....

Best wishes whatever you do...I'd scope out all the options and keep an open mind: it's always real easy to laugh at people trying to get off dope, but I don't: I've lost everything I ever loved or valued, time and time again, to my love of opates...and they aren't going to be legalized any time soon, so it's a tough road, and if you think u'd be better off it, I'd throw yerself into treatment and whatever program/church whatever, u need to stay clean...

but u'll miss it, bad as it can be....

I'd be on heroin maintenance if we had it in this country, and I fight the on and off methadone battle, because that's just the way I am...



First off, I know there is a section just for posts like this, but since I would actually like an answer to my questions, I opted to post here. (There aren't any posts in that section and I highly doubt that it's a very popular section)

So, I am beginning to realize that my opiate usage is getting out of control. I either need to exert some self control and cut back, or I need to just quit all together. I am truly afraid of quiting. I don't know what my life will be like without opiates. Will I ever be as happy as when I have a good opiate high? Will I ever have ambition like I do when I'm high? What about my social life? Will I be as outgoing and personable as when I'm high? These are the things that scare me. (Besides the horrible withdrawals!)

So, what all is involved with an outpatient rehab? What do they give you for the withdrawals? Do the drugs for that work? How long does it take to go through the system? Does it really work? What goes on your record? (As an avid firearms collector, this is very important to me. Any kind of blip on my record could get my entire collect confiscated. ) Any kind of info would be appreciated.

On the other hand, I can force myself to cut back and lower my tolerance. I really have no self control and that is why I'm in the situation I am in. So, what could I do to cut back? Any ideas on how to force myself? Is this a feasible option, or am I just going to have to bite the bullet and quit all together?

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

[youwonhundred]

I'm a fellow CP type, and I quit. It hurts like hell sometimes, and the lack of dope is boring as shit, but yes, it can be done. In my case, a great friend, and an angel, blessed me with a sub, and i used little crumbles to feel okay, then just quit. Got drunk as shit for a while, ate immodium for about a week, and I'm still here. didn't even hurt too much.

[mollywopped]

All of this really depends on what you put into it. I have seen some guys do an outpatient detox and never touch dope again and then others have done a hundred rehabs and are still strung out. So it is really up to the person.

As for detox, usually the only outpatient detoxes are w/ either Suboxone or methadone. Those usually take longer also. If you want just a straight detox, they are usually abotu a week and they give you different drugs to help w/ all the different syptoms. usually, you just sleep for the first day or so because you are so druigged up. However, the problem w/ JUST doing a detox is that you are done in a short time and still don't feel great, though you are OK, but you will probably be craving, bad.

Personally, I think the best part of rehab is being locked up for a month or more. I hate all that crap that you have to do to try to figure out why you're a junkie, but I guess it is good for some people. All in all though, rehab was just a way to keep myself away from dope for awhile. That is how I got off.

As for what life will be like w/o drugs, it's hard to say. If you are a pain patient, then you should probably ask your doc about that. If not, I'll tell you that it is hard for awhile. You'll probably think about getting high A LOT for a few months. It gets less and less as time goes by, but the first few months are tough. Actually, the first month is easy because you get back into all the stuff you missed out on because of drugs. but when the newness of all that wears off, then it gets tough. But it does get better. It just takes time.

It really just depends on you. Not knowing anything about you I can't really say how hard it would be, what would be best or what it is goping to be like afterwards. That is all stuff you are going to have to figure out on your own. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions. I don't check in here veryday any more, but I do check in every now and again.

Oh ya, one other thing. If you are going to do outpatient rehab, don't bother. It is a waste of time and almost never works. DOn't mean to burst your bubble, but I would tell anybody that.

[SynthMorph]

I've never seen people so pityfully unhappy as in rehab. I got thrown in that shit once and it felt like i was tossed into an alternate dimension where twisted cruelty and sadism reigned supreme. I don't want to sound insensitive or anything but those group sessions just sounded like a lot of whining to me. I don't see how listening to horrible stories could help anyone. If anything it reaffirmed my beliefs for using opiates and I wanted to use with a vengeance after. I really can't stress how much it felt like some twisted dream reality where everyone is talking about how drugs ruined their relations but deep down inside drugs are all that's really wanted.

[roxi*stardust]

After reading al the posts in this thread, I have to say that chopstix's post gives a very good prospective on the realities of rehabs both impatient and outpatient. He said what most people don't want to hear, your success or failure ultimately depends on you not the rehab you attended. Rehabs can only give you the outline or base to start with, in the end you decide whether you stay clean or not. IMO, no rehab or amount of rehab will help someone who doesn't want to or isn't ready to quit. You have to want to be clean. It's a battle you will fight everyday. I saw this first hand with my father, an alcoholic and opiate addict. He went to countless rehabs, AA, NA, etc, all forced on him by family, friends, or LE. He always went right back to his way of life because he didn't want to quit.

For the OP, yes there are a ton of options. Suboxone and Methadone are great options too, along with some type of counseling or maybe even NA or AA meeting could work for you. But they will only work if it's what you want. I always tell people Subs work better if you kep a positive attitude about it, same goes with 'done.

I do the same thing as you and probably 80% of this board with my RX. It's gone rather quickly, especially since there are two addicts living here. We used to spend mad amounts of money to get through the month, up to $250 a day. We make enough money to do this but it means nothing else gets paid. We didn't go to rehab or MMT or a Bupe doctor. We do use Bupe to get through the month, we have a friend who gets enough of a script to get all 3 of us through the month. It's hard as hell not being opiated up. Sure the Bupe takes away the physical w/d, but that's not the problem. It's the boredom, lack of energy, having to deal with the reality of the problems our drug use caused, and the terrible anxiety that always sends us running back to that warm heavenly place. But once we decided that we wanted to do this, it got alot easier. Sure it's still no piece of cake, like today I am dying for a pill, I know they are there! I feel fine, physically. I just want one and I know I take a low enough dose of Bupe (1-2mg) that I can get high. Sometimes, I break and get some. Other times I fight the urge to do it. I don't know what today will bring, I might fuck up, I might not. Only time will tell. i have to accept that this is stronger than me but not give up. It won't happen overnight, it may take years. I got two weeks to go til my script. I always say I'm going to take these right. Even if I do my SO is also taking them so they will never last as long as they should. This time they lasted the longest yet. We are getting better, but not there yet. The first few days, we never took more than 4 per day but after that 4 wasn't enough. Had to take 5 or 6 or 7 or 8......My point is if you are serious about getting straight go for. If you think you can take your RX right, try it. But promise yourself that if you can't do it within a certain period of time that you will go the other route. If you do choose to try to get clean, keep a positive outlook and remember that it WILL NOT be easy. You will have bad days, but the next day will be better. That's the only thing that they use in AA or NA that is really really so true. You get by one day at a time, it's a battle everyday. Good luck with whatever you choose.

[Raine]

I did Methadone Maintenance Treatment and then switched to taking Suboxone while attending Chemical Dependency Intensive Outpatient Rehabilitation. I had to do the drug related stuff through clinics and the rehab through a place that handled only the therapy portion of outpatient rehab.
While I was in the three month program we were randomly drug tested both at the Methadone clinic and at the rehab. I had a drug counselor at the methadone clinic who was basically good-for-nothing except giving me workbooks that were so silly i felt like a jackass filling them out but had to if i wanted to be allowed to dose. Methadone didn't agree with my system; I was puking and nauseated constantly so I switched to a private doctor and subs for two months because that's all i could afford.

The woman who ran the outpatient program was a social worker who specialized in addiction treatment. While in the program I used three times, and it was a three-month program. For me that was a huge success because that could have been at least 90 times i used in three months instead of three, and to be honest i use multiple times daily so 90 is a very conservative estimate.

It was a group therapy program and the sessions lasted 4 hours a day three days a week with three mandatory NA meetings to attend weekly as well. We basically sat around in a circle and bitched about our lives most of the time. That was what generally went on except when there'd be these certain days when someone or everyone was in the mood to be serious and share something important and we'd actually get somewhere and there'd be some kinda breakthrough and it was interesting.
The POINT of the sessions was to get to the root of WHY we used in the first place. I do recommend finding a program based on this principle and not the twelve steps. Even though we were supposed to go to meetings the group leader thought the twelve steps were bullshit. She actually followed something called the 16 steps. They were from a book called; Many Roads, One Journey. She was a take-no-nonsense-type of lady and she didn't put up with any of our crap and used to say she didn't give a shit if we lied in therapy although that made it kind of useless, but as long as we didn't lie to ourselves she was happy.
We were allowed to eat and drink in group and had smoke-breaks. That made it more comfortable, IMO.

You could get away with still using and being in the program I was in, although no one actively used while in this group.Everyone wanted to get and stay clean and I think that was an important aspect, that no one was trying to get one over on the program.
I think something more intensive is necessary time-wise for it to be more effective, however something that's only a few hours three times a week fits better into a work schedule if you cannot afford to take time off of work- like me, who blew through all my financial padding on drugs.

The program worked great for me while I was in it. A month after getting out I was back in the saddle, using everyday and like my counselor predicted- if i went back that I would switch from snorting to shooting, and she was right.

Personally, i would need something inpatient to really scare me straight and I'll never be able to afford it so it's just not an option.

Good luck with your situation. I hope you find something that works for you. If you a truly ready to get and stay clean I think that makes you more likely to find success no matter what kind of program you enter.