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savethedogs
06-22-2008, 07:41 PM
I have no money and no methadone, so I was doing some research on loperamide and found another legal OTC opiate that, according to what I've read, actually DOES noticably effect (affect?) the opiate receptors, and because of this the only available medicine containing diphenoxylate has atropine to discourage abuse (2.5mg diphenoxylate, 0.25mg atropine per pill).

I went to walgreens and could not find immodium ANYWHERE, but I think I remember seeing something called "lomotil", so I'm wondering if there is a way to somewhat easily extract the DPO from the atropine and if possible, the rest of the pill. The main goal would be to extract either the atropine or DPO from a solution of broken down pills. I am very interested in chemistry and am fond of doing extractions, but I wouldn't know where to start.

I did use the search function for diphenoxylate and didn't find anything about it here besides a few offhand references on threads about loperamide.

Duckfeet
06-22-2008, 07:48 PM
I've actually never seen lomotil in the U.S., but in Peru or Nicaragua, I'd always get me a bottle...I never got any buzz really, but it's great if yer one of those *endless bus rides and got "la turista" and nowhere to shit: Lomotil really does clog u up, which now I'm on methadone is probably the *last* drug I want to see....lomotil haha, haven't even heard that shit mentioned in ages...it's a liquid anti-diarreah drug all over latin america...



I have no money and no methadone, so I was doing some research on loperamide and found another legal OTC opiate that, according to what I've read, actually DOES noticably effect (affect?) the opiate receptors, and because of this the only available medicine containing diphenoxylate has atropine to discourage abuse (2.5mg diphenoxylate, 0.25mg atropine per pill).

I went to walgreens and could not find immodium ANYWHERE, but I think I remember seeing something called "lomotil", so I'm wondering if there is a way to somewhat easily extract the DPO from the atropine and if possible, the rest of the pill. The main goal would be to extract either the atropine or DPO from a solution of broken down pills. I am very interested in chemistry and am fond of doing extractions, but I wouldn't know where to start.

I did use the search function for diphenoxylate and didn't find anything about it here besides a few offhand references on threads about loperamide.

clinton
06-22-2008, 08:16 PM
what effect did your research claim that the drug would have?
Did you simply google and voilĂ*?
is it the same thing as immodium under a different name?

HistoryofMadness
06-22-2008, 08:17 PM
this has been discussed before and i think we all agreed that the amount of work it would take to do the extraction probably wouldn't be worth the buzz. hell go for DXM before this one, atropine is a wild one.

i had a friend shoot a few of them and nothing happened except he didn't shit for a long time. i have taken them during WD with a few other things but there's no relief in major opiate WD (gotta pay the piper eventually)

i wouldn't bother.

Somanax
06-22-2008, 08:22 PM
lomitil

Haven't seen that since the early '80's

Much like immodium IMO

Lomotil is available ..........prescription only

why bother immodium= essentially the same

HistoryofMadness
06-22-2008, 08:47 PM
lomitil

Haven't seen that since the early '80's

Much like immodium IMO

Lomotil is available ..........prescription only

why bother immodium= essentially the same

sort of except diphenoxylate does cross the blood-brain barrier, which is why they make them in such small doses and include atropine. that shit is bad news if it gets ahold of ya... fucking morning glory indeed!

Indy
06-22-2008, 09:03 PM
I use lomotil when i can't get anything else, and it works pretty great, but it takes me about 20 of them, and my tolerance is around 50-60 mgs of hydrocodone. But it would probably get you out of w/d at least.

Don't even worry about the atropine, it's nowhere near active unless you IV it at those doses.

It's not OTC though, it's in the same schedule as codeine syrup, you can ask the pharmacist for it, and they CAN dispense it, but its easier to get a prescription. Most people, including doctors, dont even know its abuseable, so its really easy to get.

clinton
06-22-2008, 09:10 PM
what does it do to you indy?
does it just stave oFF w/ds or do you get an opiate buzz?

roxi*stardust
06-26-2008, 03:17 AM
Lomotil is available by prescription only. Sorry!!

paroxetina
06-26-2008, 03:26 AM
I think the name is funny. lomotil = low motility. Low motility of the intestines being essentially constipation. I enjoy when brand names of drugs are essentially descriptions of their actions (another one I can think of is antivert) rather than nonsense names determined by pharmaceutical company focus groups.

roxi*stardust
06-26-2008, 03:33 AM
I think the name is funny. lomotil = low motility. Low motility of the intestines being essentially constipation. I enjoy when brand names of drugs are essentially descriptions of their actions (another one I can think of is antivert) rather than nonsense names determined by pharmaceutical company focus groups.


Great points! I never thought of the Lomotil but Antivert (Meclizine) is perfect. For those wondering it is for Vertigo and Motion Sickness.

paroxetina
06-26-2008, 03:38 AM
Great points! I never thought of the Lomotil but Antivert (Meclizine) is perfect. For those wondering it is for Vertigo and Motion Sickness.

Another obvious one is antabuse, for treatment of alcoholism. Can't think of any more right now but I'm half awake (only because my upstairs neighbor is doing aerobics directly above my bedroom since 5 am :mad:

roxi*stardust
06-26-2008, 03:50 AM
Another obvious one is antabuse, for treatment of alcoholism. Can't think of any more right now but I'm half awake (only because my upstairs neighbor is doing aerobics directly above my bedroom since 5 am :mad:


That is another good one. I've worked in a Pharmacy most of my working life (around 10+ years now). I should be able to name a ton; but for one IT IS too early (been up since 3am when the dogs woke me up barking, better than an upstairs neighbor doing aerobics at that time, LOL:D) and two, there aren't really a bunch with practical names like these. You would think Pharmacuetical companies would use more practical names but they just don't do it as often as they should. Let's keep thinking of them!:cool:

paroxetina
06-26-2008, 09:02 PM
That is another good one. I've worked in a Pharmacy most of my working life (around 10+ years now). I should be able to name a ton; but for one IT IS too early (been up since 3am when the dogs woke me up barking, better than an upstairs neighbor doing aerobics at that time, LOL:D) and two, there aren't really a bunch with practical names like these. You would think Pharmacuetical companies would use more practical names but they just don't do it as often as they should. Let's keep thinking of them!:cool:

Another one that sorta fits the bill - flonase. Increases the FLOw through your NASal passages :)

C'mon, anyone got any more to add?

Indy
06-26-2008, 09:39 PM
what does it do to you indy?
does it just stave oFF w/ds or do you get an opiate buzz?

Gives me just more than a buzz, I'd say it's definitely a high, with euphoria, but it's a mild high. Takes a long time to kick in, and lasts a really long time as well. I could see it as working well for maintenance: it's a bit 'speedier', not a whole lot of euphoria but enough that you don't just want to get something else, and long lasting.

Armegeddon73
06-26-2008, 09:46 PM
Ambien="good morning" due to a great nights rest.
Adderal= Attention Defficate Disorder extended release...(stretch?)
OTC Sominex=X'ing(cancelling) insomnia
OxyContin=Oxycodone continuously.
Fun thread.
ARM:rolleyes:

eveline
06-26-2008, 10:16 PM
I can only think of Abilify and Seroquel (serotonin antagonist but also dopamine antagonist, but that's obviously where the name came from, "serotonin"+"quell")... I'm not sure either exactly fits the bill... there must be more... oh, OK, Glucophage = sugar eater... though that's from Greek... I'm not very good at this :p

I think obvious drug names are more of an old thing, now they mostly go the focus-group route and come out with a totally unhelpful name with lots of x's... I've heard Vicodin meant VI (6) times the strength of codeine...

Oh yeah, Ambien also comes from "ambient" or "ambience" but I've heard the "AM" + "bien" thing before. Probably both.

paroxetina
06-27-2008, 01:55 AM
I think obvious drug names are more of an old thing, now they mostly go the focus-group route and come out with a totally unhelpful name with lots of x's... I've heard Vicodin meant VI (6) times the strength of codeine...


Now that is interesting, about vicodin. Never heard that before, but that's a cool explanation if it's true.

I agree, the focus group route sucks.

Also, I wasn't counting things like the other poster's example of oxycontin - while it describes the drug, Roxi and I were listing drugs whose names describe the condition being treated or the action of the drug - lomotil, antivert, antabuse, etc.

Indy
06-27-2008, 02:15 AM
I remember reading online somewhere (so take it with a grain of salt) that there are a ton of pharmaceutical trademarks already thought up, and when they need a name they just take it from the list. obviously this wouldn't apply to the drugs that are given clever names based on their chemistry, effects, etc.

Ickyuck
07-14-2008, 02:33 PM
I use lomotil when i can't get anything else, and it works pretty great, but it takes me about 20 of them, and my tolerance is around 50-60 mgs of hydrocodone. But it would probably get you out of w/d at least.

Don't even worry about the atropine, it's nowhere near active unless you IV it at those doses.

It's not OTC though, it's in the same schedule as codeine syrup, you can ask the pharmacist for it, and they CAN dispense it, but its easier to get a prescription. Most people, including doctors, dont even know its abuseable, so its really easy to get.


Indy, I have a bunch of lomotil. I need it cause of Colitis problems. You took 20?? The dosage says 1-2 tabs 4x day, that makes eight... I always wanted to take a shit load (no pun intended). The warning is that all 0.025, yes, 0.025 mgs of Atropine per pill will "discourage misuse". But the 2.25 mgs of diphenoxylate is what I'm after. Is it really like a demarol high, due to the chemical similarities??

Indy
07-14-2008, 02:37 PM
Never had demerol, but it's a very speedy high, pretty euphoric at times, and best of all it lasts forEVER. I think they should look into diphenoxylate as a maintenance or detox drug, but thats just my personal opinion.

Funny you should bump this today, i was in w/d but i JUST got some lomotil and am waiting for it to kick in. I can assure you, atropine has a low enough oral bioavailability, that you can safely take QUITE a few of these and not even feel it. Not only that, but by the time this stuff is kicking in the atropine will be wearing off even if you DID feel it, so IMO you COULD IV it with the atropine still in it, but don't quote me on that and FOR GODS SAKE DONT IV ATROPINE! Well....unless you have VX gas poisoning:D.

Oh, and this stuff creeps up on you reallllllly sllllooooowwww, so depending on your tolerance, take 10, wait an hour or two, and you can gauge how strong it is for you.

Ickyuck
07-14-2008, 02:47 PM
Ah Indy, quite glad to see you on board this moment. Ironic how you are using now too, no? I'm about to pick it up. Starting with 10 sounds fine to me, I've been on atropine-belladonna medications for a few years so I'm maybe slightly tolerant. But it takes like 2 hours?! Does empty stomach matter much? I can't really eat anyway.
Gotta go pick it up!

Indy
07-14-2008, 02:50 PM
Yeah well you'll feel it a bit in a half hour probably, but if you look up the half-life it's like 'done JR. I'm like 399% sure (ALMOST 400%....not quite) you'll be fine, but when it's not my own safety i tend to be extra careful cause i'm such a nice and thoughtful guy:rolleyes:.....plus if you don't have a huge tolerance 10 should be pretty decent.

Stomach contents makes a difference, but in my experience not by a whole lot.

SynthMorph
07-14-2008, 04:01 PM
Anyone know if this stuff is available in Canada without a script?

PantyShot9
08-02-2008, 08:10 AM
I love this stuff. Sadly I only got it once in a coup involving getting a bottle of that and 2 bottles of Fioricet. Has anyone tried both this and Demerol and can say of any similarities because of their similar chemical structures?

Indy
08-02-2008, 08:15 AM
synthmorph i'm not sure if you read the message i left in your profile, but i'm like 90% sure it's not OTC in canada. in mexico i believe it is though. [-

irish
08-02-2008, 09:40 AM
I've only ever seen lomotil rx'd in Canada. My grandma had it, but she had one of those drug plans that covered otc meds too if the doc wrote for them. I've never seen it on the shelves, but there is a lot of stuff behind the counter that you just have to ask for. Call a pharmacy, they can tell you for sure.

Ickyuck
08-02-2008, 01:32 PM
Indy: I almost forgot about this thread. I took 10 that day and didn't feel diddly. :(
Shame on you! Har, I kid. Maybe next time I'll up it to 15. In fact.. I might get more today.. Depends if my doc called it in.

All this OTC talk makes me wonder... but I really, really doubt I can get it OTC around where I live.

I'm jealous of the rest of you who can get a buzz from this!!!!

Narkotikon
08-02-2008, 03:36 PM
I love this stuff. Sadly I only got it once in a coup involving getting a bottle of that and 2 bottles of Fioricet. Has anyone tried both this and Demerol and can say of any similarities because of their similar chemical structures?

I've taken Lomotil a long time ago when I really had no tolerance, and I've taken oral Demerol (150mg) when I had a mild tolerance, and I can say the Demerol was a lot better. The Lomotil was nice, but I wouldn't say it was as euphoric as Demerol. They're both speedy though. I could see Lomotil being compared to Demerol-lite, but it's not as euphoric or good as Demerol. I can say this about Lomotil, it always made my pupils dilate (I'm assuming from the Atropine) then constrict. It wasn't really a bad thing, except my eyes were also bloodshot, like I had smoked pot or something. I'm assuming that was from the Atropine too. But yes, you can take a lot of these pills without worry of the Atropine. I'm not advising this of course, but I've safely taken 30 before and been fine with no tolerance. And that was 30 throughout the day, not all at once.

ZodiacKiller
08-02-2008, 03:48 PM
Maybe a little off topic, but the stupidest one I ever heard was the one for osteoporosis/ bone strength: "Boniva". I shit you not.


ZK

Indy
08-05-2008, 04:59 PM
Well....i probably wouldn't feel anything off 10 either, but i figured you had a lower tolerance than me. I was wrong, i only use poppy seed tea most of the time, i got some percs and 30 mg actually had me really high, so my tolerance is still pretty damn low. Next time take 20 if you didn't feel anything from 10. I take 30: 20 off the bat, then once i feel it kicking in a lot (around an hour or two later usually) i take the other 10.

Sorry i misjudged tolerance on that one, but trust me you CAN get a buzz off it.

bigNasty
08-05-2008, 05:30 PM
I've taken Lomotil a long time ago when I really had no tolerance, and I've taken oral Demerol (150mg) when I had a mild tolerance, and I can say the Demerol was a lot better. The Lomotil was nice, but I wouldn't say it was as euphoric as Demerol. They're both speedy though. I could see Lomotil being compared to Demerol-lite, but it's not as euphoric or good as Demerol. I can say this about Lomotil, it always made my pupils dilate (I'm assuming from the Atropine) then constrict. It wasn't really a bad thing, except my eyes were also bloodshot, like I had smoked pot or something. I'm assuming that was from the Atropine too. But yes, you can take a lot of these pills without worry of the Atropine. I'm not advising this of course, but I've safely taken 30 before and been fine with no tolerance. And that was 30 throughout the day, not all at once.
you thought demerol was speedy? i've nodded like crazy both times i've had shots of it at the ER. I think it had promethazine in it one time though, but the other time i know it was only demerol and i always figured that must be how people that IV H feel when they nod out.

Everybody's different though. Alot of people on here say morphine sedates them but i'm the complete opposite. I can't sleep at all on morphine

Narkotikon
08-05-2008, 09:14 PM
you thought demerol was speedy? i've nodded like crazy both times i've had shots of it at the ER. I think it had promethazine in it one time though, but the other time i know it was only demerol and i always figured that must be how people that IV H feel when they nod out.

Everybody's different though. Alot of people on here say morphine sedates them but i'm the complete opposite. I can't sleep at all on morphine

Well, I wouldn't say it's non sedating, I just meant speedier. Kind of like how people say Oxy is speedier than morphine. That's all. It's not like coke or anything like that if that's what you thought I meant. I've never IV'd Demerol, so I can't speak on that. I do know that's the best way to do it, as the bioavailability of oral Demerol is low, but I wasn't IV'ing at that point when I did it, and I only did it that one time. Took 3 of the 50mg pills. All in all, I think I built it up too much in my mind. I was expecting extreme euphoria and a "heroin-like" high like you said. Maybe it is like that IV'd, but orally it was comparable to the hydro that I was doing at the time. But, I do think 150mg was enough to know what it was going to do, because I had a really low tolerance then (30-40mg of hydro would get me nodding). But yeah, I think it's speedier like oxy than I do morphine, although I think morphine is somewhat speedy too, but that's probably because I usually get it from Pods. When I do morphine pills (Kadian), they're definitely more sedating than pods. I'm assuming it's the synergistic effects of the other alkaloids on the morphine that makes pods feel speedy to me. I get so much donw when I'm on pods, and I have a hard time sleeping too.

chemboy7
01-09-2009, 06:53 PM
I had a question about this antidiarrheal I was hoping might get cleared up. I was prescribed 10 of these tiny little Lomotil pills not too long ago and really wanted to get high on them but was worried about the Atropine they stuff in them to stop people from abusing or shooting them. I believe that they were 2mg Diphenoxylate with 0.25mg Atropine. I know that this is not a whopping dose of Atropine orally... I think effects begin somewhere in the 2mg range orally but I have know idea where the curve is IV. Anywho, I shot 2 of them... got alittle something (I have no tolerance right now) but was afraid to go higher due to the Atropine and swallowed the rest of the script. Does anyone know just how the Atropine in the pills effects the high and how much you can shoot before getting sick or delirious? I am sure I could get these little devils any time I wanted and although they may not be the best high, if they were ok to shoot it would be nice to know.

Indy
01-09-2009, 07:15 PM
Hm...well if you eat them you don't have to worry about it, as you've probably noticed. Diphenoxylate takes a LONG time to kick in (think methadone), whereas atropine wears off quickly. If you shoot a couple pills every 2 hours or so, eventually the diphenoxylate will start building up, but the atropine SHOULD have enough time to wear off in between. If not, add an extra hour between shots.

I would always swallow 15-30 of those little micro pills, and i would feel a LITTLE bit of the atropine i think: slightly less dilated pupils than they should be, and dryer mouth than should be, but i was fine, nothing bad really happened.

chemboy7
01-09-2009, 07:20 PM
I was really hoping for booting a bunch of them at once to get that rush though... I hear that Diphenoxylate is tits w/o additives.

Narkotikon
01-09-2009, 08:14 PM
You can safely take them in larger doses, at least orally. I don't have any knowledge of shooting them. I had them back in 2001, and I remember taking around 20-25 at once. I want to say that the Atropine isn't very effective orally, but I think that would go out the window if you IV'd it. I wouldn't IV a large amount. I will say that yes, you can get a decent opiate high from them if you have a low tolerance, but they will dilate your pupils. The Atropine in them is an anticholinergic, related to belladonna. Belladonna was used by noble women in the renaissance to dilate their pupils. Dilated pupils were (and sort of still are, if you go by psychological studies of babies responding more favorably to dilated pupils as opposed to constricted ones) a sign of beauty. I believe the form was in an eye drop / solution made from bella donna. Bella donna means beautiful lady in Italian. It does take a while to kick in. Also, your pupils will probably be a little bloodshot.

Indy
01-09-2009, 08:46 PM
You could always try extracting it, maybe?

Papa Verine
01-09-2009, 08:51 PM
You can safely take them in larger doses, at least orally. I don't have any knowledge of shooting them. I had them back in 2001, and I remember taking around 20-25 at once. I want to say that the Atropine isn't very effective orally, but I think that would go out the window if you IV'd it. I wouldn't IV a large amount. I will say that yes, you can get a decent opiate high from them if you have a low tolerance, but they will dilate your pupils. The Atropine in them is an anticholinergic, related to belladonna. Belladonna was used by noble women in the renaissance to dilate their pupils. Dilated pupils were (and sort of still are, if you go by psychological studies of babies responding more favorably to dilated pupils as opposed to constricted ones) a sign of beauty. I believe the form was in an eye drop / solution made from bella donna. Bella donna means beautiful lady in Italian. It does take a while to kick in. Also, your pupils will probably be a little bloodshot.

Belladonna (Atropa Belladonna)contains Atropine. And Scopolamine and Hyoscapine. I might of spelled that last one wrong but these are the 3 main tropane alkaloids.

LARGE doses are NOT good. I made that mistake twice... (yeah twice, bone headed huh?)

chemboy7
01-09-2009, 08:58 PM
You could always try extracting it, maybe?


I suppose if I already had a few scripts, I only get like 10 per. I don't know what the solubilities of Diphenoxylate and Atropine in different solvents are, wouldn't be too hard to find out but I suspect that they would be very similar looking at it from a manufacturers standpoint... they really get off on gunking up junkies pills.

Narkotikon
01-09-2009, 09:01 PM
LARGE doses are NOT good. I made that mistake twice... (yeah twice, bone headed huh?)

Well, yeah, not large doses. But you can take more than it says on the script. It probably varies with each person too. But, yeah, too much and you could die. Atropine and scopalamine and things like that are fatal in large doses. That's true with most things though.

chemboy7
01-09-2009, 09:11 PM
They (Belladonna alkaloids) will make you hallucinate wildly and go into a very bad nasty place way before they will kill you... that's what I'm worried about. What a way to ruin a perfectly good high. I believe it has been disputed as to whether Atropine actually does this like Scopolomine (which I am pretty sure is the same thing as Hyoscamine) but I would rather not guinea pig it IV'ing unknown amounts.

Papa Verine
01-09-2009, 09:34 PM
They (Belladonna alkaloids) will make you hallucinate wildly and go into a very bad nasty place way before they will kill you... that's what I'm worried about. What a way to ruin a perfectly good high. I believe it has been disputed as to whether Atropine actually does this like Scopolomine (which I am pretty sure is the same thing as Hyoscamine) but I would rather not guinea pig it IV'ing unknown amounts.

That's exactly what I was talking about. I've smoked a hallucinogenic dose of Jimsonweed seeds on 2 occasions. Jimsonweed contains the same tropane alkaloids as Belladonna. Although I'm pretty sure the levels of different alkaloids vary between the 2 plants both are considered very poisonous.

I had a terrible, terrifying experience both times. That's why I laugh about having done it twice. For some reason I thought I'd be able to control it better or somehow learn to like it after the first time so I did it again a few years later. The second experience was the worse of the 2... Terrible!

chemboy7
01-09-2009, 09:44 PM
I believe Mandrake root also contains the same alkaloids but they are usually referred to as Belladonna alkaloids... not cool stuff to mess around with.

Paregoric Kid
04-25-2009, 03:53 PM
how would you compare diphenoxylate in terms of potency to something like tramadol, propoxyphene, or codeine? is difenoxin, brand name Motofen, prescribed in the US still?
by the way, there is a cold water extraction for lomotil. atropine is soluble in water and diphenoxylate is not very so you eat what settles to the bottom and throw out the atropine water. that is what I remember reading anyways.
another interesting thing is I've heard it doesn't have any analgesic effects.

ryan
04-25-2009, 04:40 PM
If diphenoxylate isn't soluble in water then everyone who IV's these pills are IVing pure atropine..
Not good, lol..

A "reverse CWE" would seem to be the best way to get the good stuff.

blenderqueen
04-27-2009, 11:46 AM
ok but so the bottom line is that they are good or at least adequate for staving off withdrawals? I'm way way low on meds and have to work all the rest of this week. saw this thread & remembered have a bunch of lomotils. (like 20 maybe?) from an old script myself. this could be a life saver for me as dread the thought of having to work sick.....

another question I am wondering is would it be better to use them to try to stretch or potentiate what few meds I do have left? or wait til run out of all of em & then just use the lomotil? sorry just not thinking too clearly right now. so thanks for the input!

glad I stumbled across this thread:)

Papa Verine
04-27-2009, 11:52 AM
ok but so the bottom line is that they are good or at least adequate for staving off withdrawals? I'm way way low on meds and have to work all the rest of this week. saw this thread & remembered have a bunch of lomotils. (like 20 maybe?) from an old script myself. this could be a life saver for me as dread the thought of having to work sick.....

another question I am wondering is would it be better to use them to try to stretch or potentiate what few meds I do have left? or wait til run out of all of em & then just use the lomotil? sorry just not thinking too clearly right now. so thanks for the input!

glad I stumbled across this thread:)

Yes, it's an opioid but passes the BBB poorly, so you have to take quite a few to get a buzz off them. Just to keep the withdrawals away, you probably need to take at least 10 of those. (I'm making an assumption about your tolerance now)

I'd wait as long as you can after your meds run out and start then. I don't think there's any reason to mix with your regular stuff. But now that I think about it, it seems like 6 of one half a dozen of the other. Whatever you can do to make things last.

Good luck!

hovadagod
04-27-2009, 11:55 AM
Careful of the atropine added to lomotil to prevent abuse!

Indy
04-27-2009, 11:59 AM
The atropine really only matters if you IV. The oral dose is so low, I've taken 30 one day, another 30 the next with only a bit of extra dry mouth to worry about. I've read accounts of people taking upwards of 100 at once. I wouldn't recommend it at all, the atropine will probably make you pretty sick, but primarily it's there so people don't IV it. IV diphenoxylate must be pretty good...heh. Or not.

Paregoric Kid
04-27-2009, 12:28 PM
I believe it is anything under 1-2mg of atropine shouldn't be too much of a problem if taken orally. I guess if you were going to IV diphenoxylate you would have to do a CWE (if using lomotil) and then use glycerine or alcohol as diphenoxylate is pretty much insoluble in water.

DCBA
04-27-2009, 05:15 PM
the atropine is an opioid antagonist, without atropine is an opiate with opiate effects, and was abused in my country by IV when it was sold without atropine on them and at larger doses for pain.
But with atropine you get the atropine effects that counteract the opiates effects and like i said atropine is a mu opioid antagonist at high doses.

like i said junkies around here used to shot that stuff mixed wih valium ampoules.. thats why atropine was latter added

DCBA
04-27-2009, 05:18 PM
I believe it is anything under 1-2mg of atropine shouldn't be too much of a problem if taken orally. I guess if you were going to IV diphenoxylate you would have to do a CWE (if using lomotil) and then use glycerine or alcohol as diphenoxylate is pretty much insoluble in water.

So if you do a CWE and only ingest the leftovers on top of the coffefilter from the CWE.. if you do that then you can ingest all the diphenoxylate you can get without atropine! Too bad lomotil is not available in here anymore, diphenoxylate is weak but its an opiate and all opiates are good to have around.. at least is way better than loperamide (imodium) and many ppl use loperamide to alleviate WD and some even try it at very high doses for a very low opiate effect.. i would do diphenoxylate if no other opiates were possible to get and i wanted to get opiate high!

Paregoric Kid
04-27-2009, 08:01 PM
where did you get your info about atropine being an opioid antagonist? it is a muscarinic receptor antagonist but I've never heard of it having any opioid antagonist effects. wikipedia says the dose of atropine in lomotil is 1/40th the theraputic dose so I imagine you could take quite a bit without significant effects from atropine. but it couldn't hurt to do a cwe. also has anyone tried motofen (difenoxin with atropine)? when diphenoxylate is metabolized it produces difenoxin and other active metabolites. the strange thing about difenoxin is that if it is mixed with atropine it is schedule IV but difenoxin by itself is schedule I. the only other thing I've heard like that was maybe etorphine or dihydroetorphine being schedule I unless it was used by veterinarians to knock out elephants, then it was schedule II. with diphenoxylate it is schedule II unless it is mixed with atropine then it is schedule V but requires a prescription.

Indy
04-27-2009, 08:33 PM
Atropine isn't an opioid antagonist, at least not in any serious regard. It's one of the tropane alkaloids, and when i take a lot of lomotil, i can feel the atropine, but it doesn't block the lomotil at all. I'd like to see a source that says it's an antagonist. Unless it's an antagonist in the same way that coffee is an antagonist: it technically is a little bit (or in the case of coffee, it contains trace antagonists), but won't have any real effect on an opioid dose.

atropine isn't an antagonist, it just fucks you up in a bad way if you IV it in a decent dose.

edit: in some states, lomotil can be dispensed without a script, the same way codeine can. i.e. the pharmacist informs you of it, and you sign your name, and show ID. but it's even rarer to find a pharmacy that actually does it than it is with codeine syrup.

Paregoric Kid
04-27-2009, 08:55 PM
I've heard people claim its OTC but in the US I've never seen any proof of that to be true. anyone ever actually get or try to get it OTC? there are many CV medicines that are not available OTC anywhere, like lyrica for example. though I wouldn't doubt if one or two states technically allowed it but no pharmacy actually sells it.

Indy
04-27-2009, 09:00 PM
It's definitely not OTC in the US, I think it might be in Canada. I don't claim to be an expert on anything, but if there's one thing I have experience, both firsthand, and in research, with, it's lomotil, and it's definitely not over the counter. I don't think there are any C-V that are over the counter. Or do you count pharmacist-dispensed as over the counter? Like codeine, where you have to sign and show ID. I don't consider that over the counter, but in some states it's legal to dispense lomotil like that, but I've never heard of it being done. my guess would be because not many pharmacists would want to do that, and if one of "us" is gonna do it, we'd probably just go for codeine anyway (though i wouldn't).

The Paregoric Man
05-05-2009, 11:52 AM
Lomotil is very cheap and OTC here, by itself it seems to compare favorably to buprenorphine in that it gives you motivation and energy but no "warmth". A 10 pill dose (25mg diphenoxylate) felt a lot like .5-1mg buprenorphine.

I find the best use for it is boosting and extending the high of other opiates.

Oh and if anyone is curious even at 10 pills the atropine was undetectable, no dry mouth or anything.