Clozapine? holyyyy shit!!

[sidman]

I got my grubby hand's on ten of the 100 milligrammer's right? so, I looks it up on the ol' search engine and guess what I find? Well Well Well.....it's a benzo! matter of fact it's a di-benzodiazepine! so my junky mind self says"oh Boyoboyoboyboy!!" right? So I go home and pop into my garbage head Two of 'em and chase 'em with a beer,thinkin "It's all good!".................................next thing I know I'm waking up from the most lucid dream I ever had in my insane life and I cant even GET UP!! I'm like "Elasto-Rubber Dude", or somethin' and I'm thinkin' fuckin' " WOWWWW-R-WR-RR-WRRRR-WW!!" and I just FLOP back down into beddy bye and my eyes slam shut on me!!....so,next thing I know, I'm readin' a magazine right? Diggin' in my back pocket at the same time for my half bag o' dope(like I needed a half bag o' DOPE right?!) and I'm gettin' pissed that I cannot get my hand's into my back pocket......THEN I open my eyes and I was STILL IN MY BED!! none of that shit was going on!! But do I realize this? Nooooo!! I turn slowwwllllyyyyy around and look for the magazine I was readin' and for my imaginary wallet containing an imaginary bag o' Dope!! It took me Hour's to figure out that it was all in my head!! Then when morning came I was STILL messed way the fuck UP!! I couldnt even TALK!!! My Buddies are lookin' at me like I'm some kinda retarded guy and believe me I felt like it!! My mind could form the word's but my mouth wasn't hearin' my mind!! I sounded like, "grrrrr-shhhhllll-sh-sh-bibble-bibble-b-b-bibble", and I'm making messed up hand signals like maybe that would help me "form" the word's,you know?! Oh,THEN I couldn't STOP DROOLING!! God how embarrassing!! I"m leavin' puddles all over the frickin' place,tryin' to wipe 'em all up with my shirt sleeve and you know what? My shirt can't wipe up that much drool man!! I never knew the saliva glands could ever get so OVER Stimulated!! The whole time I'm thinkin" myyyy Gawd....I'm show frucked op!! Eye can't be in pubric like dis !!"...and miraculously, I walk home with rubber leg's and my knee's are almost bouncing up to hit me in the head(SERIOUSLY!!) and some how I get to my destination and lie my sorry ass DOWN!!
Then later,much much much later,I find out that the pills I took were made exclusively/EXPLICITLY....for severe schizophrenia!!! Oh my frickin' god man!! I have eight more of these things and I tell ya I like drugs and all but DAMN!! I don't think I want to take these again Guy's!!
Anybody else got some feedback on Dibenzodiazepine's for me?

[zombiewoof23]

What a story. Thanks for the warning. I thought you were talking about clonazepam at first, until I started reading. That stuff is definitely not anti-anxiety or anti seizure. Just straight antipsychotic. Another "holy shit" for the books.

[doctor diesel]

FUCK ME!! That was funny!

Doc.

[HistoryofMadness]

I can't believe you took... what 2 of them?!? That, olanzapine, and haldol (haloperidol) are all similar... atypical antipsychotics. They are good for a variety of things, none of which include getting fucked up...

They ARE however good for the following:
1. To tame a manic episode
2. A boost out of depression (this one is complicated but true)
3. Psychosis

and now for the more 'unofficial' uses:

4. Coming down off a meth binge?
5. Coke binge?
6. Having a bad trip?
7. Can't sleep in WD's?
8. Paranoid?

Anyway, you gotta break those things in a thousand tiny pieces and then and only then...

-H

[katomic]

Lol I love benzos and drink storys nice one
your hardcore this is what you should have taken...

Clozapine is started from a dose of 12.5mg/day. On day two the dose can be increased to 12.5mg twice daily. If the patient is tolerating the clozapine, the dose can then be increased by 25mg to 50mg a day, until a dose of 300mg a day is reached. This can usually be achieved in two to three weeks.
Further dosage increases should be made slowly in increments of 50mg to 100mg each week.
A dose of 450mg/day or a plasma level of 350mcg/L should be aimed for. The total clozapine dose
should be divided and, if sedation is a problem, a larger proportion of dose can be given at night.

Lol

hay history of madness guy, it does have an action on gabba, as well as D and 5ht and others it looks to me like it would be a most excelant drug if it wasent for the serious side affect of agranulocytosis.


There are a few more funny benzo and drink storys on the forum if you like them

[sidman]

Wow man!! I only took Two of 'em.....I could not IMAGINE....(EVER!!!)... takin' 300-350 milligram's of that stuff!!
You know what the WEIRDEST PART about the whole experience was? The delusion's that I was experiencing while fucked up on them! I mean,I honestly thought that I was reading a magazine,and I honestly thought that I really had a half bag o' dope in my wallet!! Every time my eye's shut,I would think I was reading a magazine man!! And everytime that I opened my eye's again....well..I would be LOOKING for the magazine I was reading(in my mind!!) and I just didn't get the fact that it was all in my head!! The imaginary half bag o' dope was the most realistic!! I mean,I REALLY was CONVINCED that I had me a half bag o' dope in my wallet and when I didn't/couldn't find it,I was getting really pissed off!! I was thinkin',"OKAY DAMMIT!! Who stole my dope huh!! HUH!!" and when I finally realized it was all in my inebriated mind,I was blown away!! Shit, I have taken ALOT of powerful hallucinogenic's in my prime ( That's how I got my name "SidMan!) and NEVER had I really thought that my hallucination's were REAL!! So what I gather from the whole experience is that since I don't have schizophrenia (really Guy's I don't!! HAH-HA!) then maybe it can cause one to be "temporarily schizophrenic" you know?
Totally psychomimetic all the frickin' WAYYY!!! I got rid of the thing's about an hour ago and I told my buddy,"LOOK BRO'!! do NOT take Two of these thing's,as a matter of fact,take 1/4 of ONE!!", then I told him the whole story as he was laughin' his ass off at me!! I told him ,"hey bro',It's all good n all,but really,listen to what I'm tellin' you,otherwise,I'll take 'em back!!" So, he realized that I was not kiddin' and he told me ,"okay,man,really,I'll only take a 1/4 at first"
If I didn't know him since we were kid's,I wouldnt have EVER sold them to him(I let all eight of 'em go for five buck's!!) I have a new "R.E.S.P.E.C.T."(SOCK IT TO ME!!) FOR THOSE THING'S MAN!! I could never in good conscience,sell those thing's to someone I didn't know!! I would be worried that they would O.D. on them!! You guy's know how,when you tell someone,"LOOK MAN!! BE CAREFUL,THESE/THIS IS STRONG STUFF!! BE CAREFUL OKAY?" and they say,"yeah,yeah,yeah....okay." then they go and take too much ANYWAY'S?!! Well, I don't want that to happen so I don't think I will ever sell the thing's in their whole form!! I can get my hand's on shit load's of them.....but I think it would be wise to use EXTREME discretion with these bad boy's.....what do you Guy's think?
Hey Katomic,hey HistoryOfMadness.....you've impressed me with your knowledge of them.....Thank you very much for your feedback,I appreciate it!! Just one question for you guy's....what is "agranulocytosis"?

[psychotiKK]

I don't think you were really experiencing what a skizophrenic does.. I was prescribed Risperdol which is an antipsychotic and all it did was knock me out cold, made me sleep for 20 hours, and look/act like a zombie for two days. Horrible shit unless you really need it. I didn't, and that doc is a whack job so I switched and I'm happy with my new guy.

[ontario_opiophile]

Schizophrenia is a bad illness. Those pills steal your soul. My uncle is a Schizophrenic and I realy dont know how those types of pills work. I've tried them before and all they do is make me pass out. I was prescribed Quetiapene sp? or Seroquel or whatever it's called. It just made me feel kinda relaxed and tired. Mostly just tired.I don't know how Schizophrenic people can stay awake while on all of these sleep inducing things. It's such a strange illness. And some people are beyond help and medication desnt work for them. My uncle is a Schizo, Luckily he can function well and has a good job and everything. Although he is a parapelegic. He jumped off a building when he was in his 20's and broke his back. The doc had put him on medication for his schizophrenia but it wasnt the right type. After he broke his back, they switched his medication and he was normal again. It's a shame they didnt pick that medication first, so he wouldnt have jumped off that building. If the doc had put him on the right medicine, he would still be walking today. Imagine being on a permanent bad acid trip. Thats schizophrenia. It's just horrible. I hope no one in here ever gets it.

[katomic]

sidman was probaly prescriberd Clozapine because mental problems (please correnct me if im wrong sidman) because Clozapine is an anti psycotic (sp?) and a last line of defence at least in the uk because of the agranulocytosis, which by the way sidman, is the reduction in the number of white blood cells in the body, not good. you all know what white blood cells do.
Did the doc ask you for regular blood test to check the white blood cell levels? sidman dont mean to scare you my may never ever get agranulocytosis but best to eat well lots of frut and veg stay heathy and stuff.apart from that it sounds like a good anti P because it does have deacent affect on GABA.

your delousions sound like they where from its anticholinergic activity

psychotiKK what dose of resperidal wher you on? are you on now? cos i may have to go on somthing soon but dont want a big dose and was thinking of resperidal. I used to be on Quetiapene 600mg a day 200mg of that in the day I kept falling asleep in class and i drove and R32 at the time could have been danger lol

"Those pills steal your soul" so so fuckin true. I m a lot better than i was and find opiates and benzos good for whats left. alltho a little venlafaxine wouldent go a miss.

hay we sould start a forum for people with mental issues

[sidman]

Uhhhhhhhh....I wasn't prescribed them at all, I "aqcuired" them from someone I know. I ain't messin' with 'em any more that's for sure!! Wasn't really a good experience for me....just really weird!!

[psychotiKK]

sidman was probaly prescriberd Clozapine because mental problems (please correnct me if im wrong sidman) because Clozapine is an anti psycotic (sp?) and a last line of defence at least in the uk because of the agranulocytosis, which by the way sidman, is the reduction in the number of white blood cells in the body, not good. you all know what white blood cells do.
Did the doc ask you for regular blood test to check the white blood cell levels? sidman dont mean to scare you my may never ever get agranulocytosis but best to eat well lots of frut and veg stay heathy and stuff.apart from that it sounds like a good anti P because it does have deacent affect on GABA.

your delousions sound like they where from its anticholinergic activity

psychotiKK what dose of resperidal wher you on? are you on now? cos i may have to go on somthing soon but dont want a big dose and was thinking of resperidal. I used to be on Quetiapene 600mg a day 200mg of that in the day I kept falling asleep in class and i drove and R32 at the time could have been danger lol

"Those pills steal your soul" so so fuckin true. I m a lot better than i was and find opiates and benzos good for whats left. alltho a little venlafaxine wouldent go a miss.

hay we sould start a forum for people with mental issues


Sorry for not responding for a long time, just read the message. I'm not sure what the dose was, I just remember taking one or two pills. He gave it to me to help my anxiety. Let's just say the side effects were too much to handle and it's a horrible drug to give a patient with GAD. If I was on that stuff again, I would never wake up a day in my life.

[psilocybin]

nice little story :D

[Zoop]

I can't believe you took... what 2 of them?!? That, olanzapine, and haldol (haloperidol) are all similar... atypical antipsychotics. They are good for a variety of things, none of which include getting fucked up...

They ARE however good for the following:
1. To tame a manic episode
2. A boost out of depression (this one is complicated but true)
3. Psychosis

and now for the more 'unofficial' uses:

4. Coming down off a meth binge?
5. Coke binge?
6. Having a bad trip?
7. Can't sleep in WD's?
8. Paranoid?

Anyway, you gotta break those things in a thousand tiny pieces and then and only then...

-H

I think brother HistoryofMadness has the right notion. This drug is a strong antispychotic, which is known to cause in a not insiginificant percentage of people taking it, a condition called agranulocytosis (it means your bone marrow dies and you stop having white blood cells, leading to oppurtunistic infections) which is often FATAL.

Back in 1997-1999, when I was a druggist, we had to dispense clozaril to people, and were only allowed by law to dispense one week's worth at a time, and they had to get blood work done every week.

the only reason someone who isn't totally over the tope psycho should have some is as an emergency antidote to a heavy LSD trip or something like that!

[HistoryofMadness]

the only reason someone who isn't totally over the tope psycho should have some is as an emergency antidote to a heavy LSD trip or something like that!
Agreed. Once I went out of town to visit friend, and went through my stash too fast. He of course had no idea and nothing to help. I had scrounged up some olanzipine (don't ask) and was popping micro amounts to relax, knowing WD was only a day away.

Just so happened that we were going to trip sid, and I decided this was something I didn't want to happen in WD so we went ahead the night of my last shot.

Took several hits, and nothing happened to me. My pal was already losing it, and I asked for more to try to catch up. I took more sid in one sitting that night than ever, and barely felt anything. Destroyed the trip.

Went into WD early the next morning. Went home. The end.

-H

[defenestrate]

sidman, that is a grade A story.

i've been on thorazine, risperdal, and haloperidol (no, not all at once). thorazine was kind of interesting-stumbling, drooling, eventually working my way to where i could fight through most of it. they had me on pretty decent quantities, but never long-term enough to stabilize me at really high doses. in any case, while the thorazine was just kind of goofy and weird, risperdal and haldol made me desperately, murderously depressed, because i couldn't do ANYTHING worth a shit. they just kept me from functioning in any way, be it in the direction of psychosis or functioning in a useful way. damn things just make parts of your brain unable to do what they're supposed to do. maybe i was "safer" in the short term in some cases, but all in all it was a crock. i cold turkey'd the prozac/haldol/cogentin combo-that was the mix i hated the most. never been on that kind of shit since, aside from trying out maybe one or two other things for a few days to a week. and i am better off, even if i'm a *little* wacky.

[Hammilton]

Holy Crap.

I can't believe you made a mistake like that. Clozaril (trade name) is pretty friggin toxic, probably has the highest risk of Tardive Dyskinesia of all the atypicals.

By the way, this whole thing would have been avoided if you had researched just a pinch-bit better. Clozapine is NOT IN ANYWAY A benzo. Then again, hindsight is 20/20. Well, I take that back. In one way it is a benzo, but not a benzodiazepine. Clozapine is a Dibenzoxazepine. Oxazepine is not related to oxazepam here, however. Oxazepines have no effect on GABA receptors, benzodiazepine or otherwise. They do have strong effects on adrenergic, cholinergic, histaminergic and serotonergic systems, which the cholinergic probably responsible for the hallucinations.

However, Clozapine HUGELY increases the effects of benzodiazepines, and in some cases the mix has caused death. Titration with this mix must be done very slowly.


On a side note,
Seroquel, another member of the Oxazepine family, is a medication I was on for bipolar for a while. I took my normal dose of methadone one day. I came very close to dying that night- and my doctor said it would be fine to mix them. I could not feel my skin and lapsed in and out of consciousness for hours. Fortunately I had someone to care for me. The hospital told me not to bother coming in. Hah!

[HistoryofMadness]

Holy Crap.



man turn that shit down

[Hammilton]

oops didn't realize how large that made my text. sorry.

[HistoryofMadness]

oops didn't realize how large that made my text. sorry.

For being a gentleman, and not over reacting (as some newbs do) I give you my respect, and a shitload of points......

3 cheers for kindly newbs...

hip hip...

ok sorry its getting late and my lunesta is kickin in (yeah back on that train)

[renton]

Yeah I've taken clozapine before and man it messes you up. I basicly felt totally stoned and had the munchies like mad. But as for it being toxic thats a myth. You need to get blood tests cause one in a thousand get this rare blood disorder but other than that it's probably THE safest and most effective drug for schizo or bipolar which is what I am. Its the only one that wont cause tardive dyskanesia, that when you get wierd twitches and jerks that dont go away.

[Hammilton]

While the dangers of TD are much lower with Clozapine and other Atypical anti-psychotics, Clozapine has one of the higher risks of the class. I think Olanzapine might be worse, but i haven't found anything supporting that.

There is the enormous risk of diabetes from this drug, but again, Olanzapine has a slightly higher risk here too.

The big concern for single uses, though, is the elongation of QT (especially when used with other drugs that can cause this, even the ones that do so very minimally, like some of the narcotics).

Its also been shown that Clozaril causes inflammation of the heart, and for those who happen to experience the side effect roughly have a 40% chance of death. This isn't really a single-dose concern, however. It ought to raise the eyebrows of those who are on it daily, though.

The stuff works by blocking Acetylcholine (and dopamine) in the brain and body. What else works this way? Nerve gas? Atropine? The other belladonna alkaloids? Some of the most toxic alkaloids around. I'd be extraordinarily wary about claiming this as a safe drug.

I too have bipolar, and have been on every Atypical there is, with the exception of Clozapine because its side effects and dangers are so high compared to the others. Won't ever take Olanzapine again, either. I gained 40 pounds in 3 weeks. Thats fucking terrible.


I'd suggest perusing the literature regarding its dangers before claiming that it's toxicity is a myth.

Perhaps the most telling tid-bit is that Clozapine was pulled off the market once, but put back on- despite acknowledging the dangers it was taken off for- And it was only 30 percent effective with psychosis.

Below is a list of pages discussing the enormous risks of this drug. I don't think any relate to the white blood cell declines since it typically isn't a huge risk.

http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/37/6/25
http://www.peter-lehmann-publishing.com/articles/fleming.htm
http://www.ahrp.org/infomail/05/03/23.php
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/159/7/1243-a
www.pharma.us.novartis.com/product/pi/pdf/Clozaril.pdf <-- The manufacturer's warning.
http://www.cpa-apc.org/Publications/Archives/CJP/2002/april/originalResearchClozapineTreatment.asp
www.napra.ca/pdfs/advisories/clozaril.pdf
Long Link Title (http://www.americantherapeutics.com/pt/re/ajt/abstract.00045391-200509000-00013.htm;jsessionid=GVLbtbL0pHRCBHxM2vnkqSQnQJ4GN 11bChwwjtvylf0BJqMHD6WJ%21-1110070904%21-949856144%218091%21-1)
Site:wwwmedinescomplete.com List of Deaths from clozapine (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=+site:www.medicinescomplete.com+Clozapine+toxici ty)

[thbronze]

While the dangers of TD are much lower with Clozapine and other Atypical anti-psychotics, Clozapine has one of the higher risks of the class. I think Olanzapine might be worse, but i haven't found anything supporting that.

There is the enormous risk of diabetes from this drug, but again, Olanzapine has a slightly higher risk here too.

The big concern for single uses, though, is the elongation of QT (especially when used with other drugs that can cause this, even the ones that do so very minimally, like some of the narcotics).

Its also been shown that Clozaril causes inflammation of the heart, and for those who happen to experience the side effect roughly have a 40% chance of death. This isn't really a single-dose concern, however. It ought to raise the eyebrows of those who are on it daily, though.

The stuff works by blocking Acetylcholine (and dopamine) in the brain and body. What else works this way? Nerve gas? Atropine? The other belladonna alkaloids? Some of the most toxic alkaloids around. I'd be extraordinarily wary about claiming this as a safe drug.

I too have bipolar, and have been on every Atypical there is, with the exception of Clozapine because its side effects and dangers are so high compared to the others. Won't ever take Olanzapine again, either. I gained 40 pounds in 3 weeks. Thats fucking terrible.


I'd suggest perusing the literature regarding its dangers before claiming that it's toxicity is a myth.

Perhaps the most telling tid-bit is that Clozapine was pulled off the market once, but put back on- despite acknowledging the dangers it was taken off for- And it was only 30 percent effective with psychosis.

Below is a list of pages discussing the enormous risks of this drug. I don't think any relate to the white blood cell declines since it typically isn't a huge risk.

http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/37/6/25
http://www.peter-lehmann-publishing.com/articles/fleming.htm
http://www.ahrp.org/infomail/05/03/23.php
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/159/7/1243-a
www.pharma.us.novartis.com/product/pi/pdf/Clozaril.pdf <-- The manufacturer's warning.
http://www.cpa-apc.org/Publications/Archives/CJP/2002/april/originalResearchClozapineTreatment.asp
www.napra.ca/pdfs/advisories/clozaril.pdf
Long Link Title (http://www.americantherapeutics.com/pt/re/ajt/abstract.00045391-200509000-00013.htm;jsessionid=GVLbtbL0pHRCBHxM2vnkqSQnQJ4GN 11bChwwjtvylf0BJqMHD6WJ%21-1110070904%21-949856144%218091%21-1)
Site:wwwmedinescomplete.com List of Deaths from clozapine (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=+site:www.medicinescomplete.com+Clozapine+toxici ty)


I'd say they're tranquillizers plain and simple Haldol-like having tiny weights attached to every muscle,my exp.My twin bro -bipolar-nearly beating father to death twice teen yrs.,now doing great,working,driving-after being locked up most of adult life and used as guinnea pig-he won't even take that shit,that says something.Hey Hamilton you mentioned Atropine,before i order some what exp. do you have w/it-not any good? the site is:http://pharm.bpg.bg/already ord.Spasmalgon,buscolysin ampoules-any experience appreciated

[HistoryofMadness]

I'd say they're tranquillizers plain and simple Haldol-like having tiny weights attached to every muscle,my exp.My twin bro -bipolar-nearly beating father to death twice teen yrs.,now doing great,working,driving-after being locked up most of adult life and used as guinnea pig-he won't even take that shit,that says something.Hey Hamilton you mentioned Atropine,before i order some what exp. do you have w/it-not any good? the site is:http://pharm.bpg.bg/already ord.Spasmalgon,buscolysin ampoules-any experience appreciated

I agree, tranqs are good for some people sometimes and a lot of people all the time... there are always "un-success stories" but most pharms have terrible long term affects...

AS for atropine I know it is a very shady substance, taken from belladonna... but its not a good trip, its a very uncomfortable trip... in fact it is put in some drugs to reduce the likelihood of them being abused...

I would look more at how toxic it is at very low levels before I screwed around with that, if I were you... and also check into the details of psychoactivity... careful.

[red26]

Just a quicky here. Dont mix Seoquil with cocaine. It landed me in the E.R. due to severe chest pains and severely irregular heart beat. I should have died that night but my guardian angel wasnt sleeping at the time so I made it through. Just about one of the scariest near death experiences I'v ever had. Please please please dont evr ever ever mix seroquil with blow.

[eternalsunshine]

I bought four of those two days ago, I was told they were percocet. so yesterday I get to work and I take my last 10/350 norco and 1/2 of my "percocet" About an hour later I could not talk ( i am a operator) my legs were like rubber and I was falling asleep with my head in the air. I had to beg to be sent home and when I was, I couldnt make it home. I slept 5 hours in the parking lot. when I got home I slept till the next morning(today). I did some research and found out what I had taken. I sure wish I knew that yesterday!!! SHIT!!!!!!!

[shaunclo]

I bought four of those two days ago, I was told they were percocet. so yesterday I get to work and I take my last 10/350 norco and 1/2 of my "percocet" About an hour later I could not talk ( i am a operator) my legs were like rubber and I was falling asleep with my head in the air. I had to beg to be sent home and when I was, I couldnt make it home. I slept 5 hours in the parking lot. when I got home I slept till the next morning(today). I did some research and found out what I had taken. I sure wish I knew that yesterday!!! SHIT!!!!!!!

DUDE!! Seroquel would put out an elephant!!!

I took I think a 100 mg pill one night to go to sleep, and I slept thru 3 hours of my alarm clock the following day. That shit is some strong-ass potent stuff. I gave the rest away, it was something I never wanted to take again. That stuff is very very strong........never again fo me

[HistoryofMadness]

I bought four of those two days ago, I was told they were percocet. so yesterday I get to work and I take my last 10/350 norco and 1/2 of my "percocet" About an hour later I could not talk ( i am a operator) my legs were like rubber and I was falling asleep with my head in the air. I had to beg to be sent home and when I was, I couldnt make it home. I slept 5 hours in the parking lot. when I got home I slept till the next morning(today). I did some research and found out what I had taken. I sure wish I knew that yesterday!!! SHIT!!!!!!!

Damn, that is an inexcusable offense. Someone's head should roll over that one. Once I got a bunch of 800mg ibuprofen that were pawned off on me as hydros... I didnt' look, they were in a bottle, and it was (I thought) a good friend.

Hey I also noticed people mentioned risperdol... anyone give me more info? I've been having some really bad insomnia, and my doc decides to give me this after she tried seroquel and it didn't work. I am under the impression that these are virtually the same thing, in different compounds...

I told her I wasn't hearing voices, I just couldn't sleep. It seems like we're in a standoff to see who'll give first, me to accepting something else or her to finally giving me some benzos, which are really the only thing that I think will help. Plus it would be cool to have some, no?

-H