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riotgrrrl
05-12-2008, 06:29 AM
Found this and thought it was interesting...






Methadone/Opiate withdrawal
Dr. David Arneson, NMD
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
‘There is no free lunch.’








I believe in the search for truth…the following monograph is what I know to be true about the use and withdrawal from methadone. I also understand that in life, the truth is constantly evolving. My 18 years on the road to recovery probably taints my judgment somewhat…but friends—I know recovery from the bottom rung. I’ve written countless e-mail replies to those of you who wish to discontinue methadone. In order to save myself time I’ve decided to write as much as I can on one, or two, pages…the truth as I see it…to assist you in your endeavor. I will be adding and subtracting as more information is made available. Certainly, you may perceive your truth to be different. If you think that going to the methadone clinic every morning to get your dose for the rest of your life…gives you quality of life…then read no further and God bless you. I assure you, the standard medical establishment does not have an answer for withdrawal. In fact, the new way of thinking is that many of you will have to be on methadone for the rest of your lives. Nothing could be farther from the truth. They will try and convince you that sudden withdrawal will cause your untimely demise. Another falsehood, although the truth is you may feel like you’re dying. I consistently work with people stopping cold turkey and have better luck than lowering the dose over time., I’ve NEVER had an in-house methadone withdrawal case leave the program early…all have gone cold turkey from 60-150 mg per day…Many do this without the aid of other mind-altering prescriptive drugs…even though I’m licensed to prescribe these drugs. There are exceptions, for those that I detox out-patient, and for those that are on other medications when they come in for treatment…I’ll cover those medications in the following paragraphs. Personally, I urge all to consider in-house Detox for methadone…especially if going cold turkey. Although in my personal experience I’ve never seen any advantage in lowering the dose over time. Especially, if one is at 45 mg or less per day. Methadone Detox can normally be accomplished in 3-5 weeks. For information on natural methadone detox, in-patient, please visit xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

The most important issue in treatment for withdrawal is not so much treating the disease state but treating the individual. One specific protocol designed to treat a disease is standard medicine’s answer to all disease states. This is mechanistic medicine. It does not take into account our genetic variability…we respond to treatment in different ways…not just through biochemistry, but also on the emotional and spiritual levels. For the last 4 years I’ve been using nutrition—Intravenous and oral—to rebuild and repair the biochemistry pathways in the body and mind. Over four years experience —this includes heroin, and all other street drugs, alcohol, and prescription medications--has taught me that natural detox works 100 times better than detox formulated and predicated by the use of other mind altering chemicals. It is also important to recognize that there are many of you that were prescribed methadone for chronic pain. Yet one must recognize that the end result is the same—and therefore the remedies for withdrawal are the same.

One more important point is that emotional and spiritual supports are necessary in this journey back to health. It would be rare that a person is not stretched to the absolute limit—body, mind, and spirit--in the process of withdrawing from methadone. Those who chose to do this alone, rarely succeed. The support of family, friends, or even the 12-step programs are important adjuncts to this journey.

One final point needs to made about the use of methadone. There are those that were put on methadone for pain management. This occurs because opiates in general—while good acute therapy—are not good choices for chronic long-term pain. The body adjusts to opiate therapy by down regulating opiate receptors and the patient will eventually build a tolerance to the standard opiates like vicodin, percocet, or oxycontin just to name a few. Methadone is the last ditch effort to control pain…unfortunately, the use of methadone usually creates more long-term health problems. The other unfortunate aspect of taking someone off methadone—those that have been using it to treat chronic pain—is what will be used to control pain in the future. There has been some movement in treating pain with anti-depressants with poor results. Furthermore, long term opiate use eventually create what is termed the opiate pain syndrome…which simply is the fact that the receptors are so down regulated that the opiate have nothing to act on…and that’s why opiate therapy doesn’t work over the long term…For many of those with chronic pain, choices have to be made…and the withdrawal from methadone will be especially trying…but it can be done following the protocols listed below…as your body heals and the receptors are synthesized in the body your own enkephlins and endorphins (natural body opiates) will start to be interactive in pain management…this may not be enough…yet many cases of chronic pain will subside if serotonin levels in the brain can be increased—the reason for doing amino acid therapy is to increase these levels. Anti-depressants don’t increase the production of anything over the long term…in fact it is well known that in the long term they decrease levels of neurotransmitters such as serotonin. Amino acids therapies work well on most cases of fibromyalgia even though many of these patients will fall victim to the use of methadone which just creates more problems. The good news is that if a fibromyalgia patient will start the following protocols to get off methadone…these are the same basic protocols for treating Fibromyalgia…

1) Most Methadone clinics are for profit, private enterprises, do you really think they want you off the methadone. The cost of a dose of methadone is about $1.00…what are they charging you?
2) Since all associated therapists and counselors that work the methadone clinics are trained and get their information from the standard medical establishment…do you really think they know the truth…no one is saying that they are not caring individuals--but they don’t know the truth anymore than the people who prescribe the medication to you. If fact most of them think we’re idiots because we doubt and ask questions. The fact is that we do not know the long range effects of methadone on the human body and mind…many are now thinking that the longer you are on the methadone the more profound, and possibly irreversible these changes may be…In fact we don’t know the exact mechanism of action of many psychotropic drugs—just review the Physicians Desk Reference on Prozac…along with the countless other caustic chemicals we insist on putting in the human body.
3) Methadone is one of the most physically dependent medications invented in the 20th century. The reason for this is a) its long half-life (24-36 hours)…b) it is a synthetic morphine, c) the diabolic symptomology associated with withdrawal and the length of the withdrawal symptoms. Methadone, like all opioids creates profound changes to gastrointestinal function… In layman’s terms this means that regardless of the food you eat--absorption of the vital nutrients is impaired. If nutrients cannot be absorbed in sufficient quantities and associated quality…all biochemical pathways in the body are affected negatively. Chronic fatigue, sleeplessness, aches and pains, depression, anxiety, are all signs and symptoms of these deficiencies. Methadone also has profound effects on brain neurotransmitter production and function. It is also known that it creates havoc in what is called the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis…which accounts for the chronic fatigue. And like all opiates, methadone down-regulates opiate receptors in the human body thus the long lasting aches and pains associated with withdrawal. Methadone withdrawal is particularly insidious because, left untreated; these symptoms can last literally for months. Also the longer you are on methadone the more profound these changes in body and mind function.
4) Regardless of the level you decrease the dose before quitting…you will suffer some level of withdrawal…Frankly, I’ve never been able to discern much difference in the withdrawal intensity between 1 mg or 80 mg…it’s always difficult. The withdrawal is unique to each individual…I’ve had some come off 65 mg or more, and while uncomfortable, hardly seem to break a sweat. Others coming off low doses and be in pure agony. One must treat the individual, not the disease.

Nutritional treatment is essential in the recovery and withdrawal phase of any type of drug or alcohol dependency. To clarify nutritional treatment, consider the following statement:
The body on methadone, or any other mind altering drug or alcohol, is like the house that has been damaged in a storm. If you were repairing the house what building materials would you need? You would need lumber, sheet rock, shingles, and etc for the major supplies…these are the equivalent of the bodies need for protein, carbohydrates, and fats. How would you hold everything together?…nuts and bolts, nails, and screws—these are the equivalent of the bodies need for vitamins and minerals. To make the repairs we need the proper tools to cut the lumber and fit it into place…one would need the saws, the equivalent of the bodies production of enzymes…these are made from the proteins we eat…one can draw analogy after analogy to explain the necessity for nutritional treatment to facilitate one back to health…only one thing needs to be clearly understood…you put back into the body the things it needs to come back to health.
Any nutritional therapy should be adhered to for at least 90 to 180 days regardless of how you feel. Just like it takes time to alter profoundly the body’s biochemistry with drugs…it takes time to repair with proper nutrition. Oral nutrition is best but often is difficult for those in their first week of detox and recovery. Proteins, complex carbs, and essential fatty acids are necessary building blocks for repair and return of proper function of organ systems and brain neurochemistry. Vitamins and minerals are “co-factors and co-enzymes” which work on the building blocks to do repair and rebuilding. Additionally, it is always counter-productive to move from the complex to the simple…my philosophy is to start simple and move to the level of complexity that works for you…remember all patients are unique in the way they process nutrients and in their ability to maximize therapy.
The following I suggest for those who wish to detox out-patient:

1) Pharmaceuticals: Clonidine 0.1, or 0.2 mg, twice to three times per day. Clonidine is an anti-hypertensive medication that is commonly utilized in opiate withdrawal syndromes. You must come off this medicine slowly—rebound hypertension may occur…especially if you already have high blood pressure…this medication is non-addicting; Vistaril 50-100mg…three times daily…this is a sedating antihistamine which helps with anxiety and sleep…down side is that after 10 days or so it loses its therapeutic efficacy; phenergan 25 mg tab…one every 6 hours for nausea and cramps. I may use these medications on my out/in-patient clients depending on the severity of symptoms. Imodium A/D works well for diarrhea.
2) Intra-Venous Nutritional therapy: In patient or out-patient…typically every day for the first 5-6 days, than every other day until the symptomology has subsided. These nutrient bags can contain proteins, vitamins, electrolytes, and other elements necessary for the body-mind to heal. The advantage of IV therapy is that all essential cofactors bypass compromised gut function. Only when the healing occurs will the symptoms of withdrawal disappear totally. Diarrhea is uncommon in those that receive IV nutrient therapy…but for those not so fortunate, Imodium A-D seems to work well in most. If your are a medical professional and wish I.V. treatment protocols contact me at xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
3) Oral nutrition: Increase the right proteins!!!! Proteins are the building blocks for neurotransmitters and neurotransmitter receptors…as well as the building blocks for your natural opiate receptors
· For 3 weeks you must remove all red meats from your diet. Red meat has chemical components that increase inflammation and pain. Fish, chicken, eggs are good sources of protein. If you are having a hard time taking in solid foods go to a health food store and buy protein powders that can be made into smoothies or drinks. You absolutely must have increased protein intake…proteins are the building blocks for all enzymes, neurotransmitters, and enzyme receptors in the body. No chemical works in the body without receptors. Just like opioids have to have opioid receptors—which are down regulated during methadone use—this is the reason people have long-lasting pain and aggravation coming off methadone…this isn’t much of a problem with heroin use because of it’s short half-life…proteins are essential for the repair work in recovery…I now use a formulation made by Neuroresearch…their Neuroreplete/D-5 protein formulas works well for those coming off of methadone, methamphetamines and benzodiazepines or any drug for that matter…for more information on this product go to xxxxxxxxx or xxxxxxxxxx and try to find a doctor close to you that will help you get his product…in fact I treat all my methadone withdrawal patients with this formula
· L-Methionine—a sulfur bearing amino acid…necessary for the production of S-Adenosyl-methionine (SAM-e)…SAM-e is a necessary cofactor in the production of the master neurotransmitters—serotonin, dopamine, adrenalin, and nor-adrenalin…this must be added to any amino acid therapy directed at rebuilding neurotransmitter production and function…500 mg—two twice per day
· Increase your intake of raw fruits and vegetables…you get little or nothing from canned foods…fresh fruits and veges are loaded with fiber which help bind and remove toxins from your body…they also normalize gut function
· Stay off candy, and other sugar heavy foods
· Drink lots of good water, green teas are good for the antioxidants and anti-inflammatory properties…no cokes or soda waters for three weeks
· When capable you must start exercising…swimming is best because it is low impact exercise…yoga…tai chi…walking daily…detoxing or otherwise…exercise is a normal component of good health
Supplements: Some need less and some more…remember the efficacy of all nutrition and supplement use is ultimately guided by your genetics…and we are all different to some degree…This is the value of seeing a good Naturopathic physician in the state you are in…The fact is that very few Medical Doctors know anything about nutrition…70%-75% of the standard medical schools in this country have absolutely no nutritional classes what-so-ever…in the other 25 %--nutrition is often a 14-20 hour block of education and this is commonly an elective…Naturopathic physicians that are educated in a medical school environment are taught nutrition extensively with the associated biochemistry.
· I use the following with all types of drug and alcohol recovery….
· Multivitamin with a strong mineral component: in gel caps only…an excellent quality multivitamin is absolutely necessary…remember that vitamins and minerals are cofactors/coenzymes for repair, healing, and normal function of the body…most times I have patients double up on multivitamins for the first 3-4 weeks
· Mineral complex: see above
· Fish oils, or flax seed oil.: necessary for repair and proper function of cellular membranes…anti-inflammatory…these need to be mixed omega 3, omega 6, omega 9 oils—4000 to 6000 mg per day in split doses…although some can be purchased as liguids and mixed with your smoothies.
· If you don’t do the drinks…get proteins as free amino acids…double up
· L-Glutamine 500mg caps…at least 2000-3000 mg per day…split the dose so that your doing it at least twice per day…helps heal the gut and the building block for GABA…the primary inhibitory neurotransmitter…helps slow things down…Do not take GABA as a supplement…GABA is make in the brain…when out side the brain the molecule is to large to cross the blood brain barrier…the building block for GABA is L-Glutamine or Glutamic acid…these building blocks readily cross the blood brain barrier.
· Valarian Root 450 mg: Botanical that reduces anxiety and helps one to sleep…Kava, Jamaican Dog Wood, Lemon Balm, Avena are all nervine botanicals which can be used together or by self…I find the doses for each individual varies but typically 1000 to 1500 mg every 4 hours.
· Melatonin…dosages vary…this is a hormone released from the pinal gland in the human body at night time for sleep…this is essential for those coming off opioids…in my experience as little as 1 mg to 30 mg has been effective…do what you have to do…I’ve had addicts coming off $100.00 a day habits sleep 4 hours the first night…start low and add 3-5 mg every half-hour till sleep…research on healthy volunteers using up to 100 mg of melatonin in a single dose shows little side effects…Melatonin is also known as a very strong antioxidant with 1000 times the potency as Vit E…Take only at night when you would be going to bed at the regular time…the room must be dark…that’s the way this hormone is released in the natural state…
· Full Spectrum antioxidants: relieves inflammation and helps normalize inflammatory pathways and reduces damaging molecules (free radicals) present in the system while detoxing
· Vitamin C: 2000-3000 mg per day divided doses…
· Reduced L-Glutathione 300mg per day: Helps liver detox metabolites of methadone…Detoxing agents can be found in many products…most in combinations…
· Adrenal Support: Research has shown that methadone, and drug use in general, has profound effects on the adrenal glands. In fact, research shows that there is a profound negative effect by methadone on the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis. This is why those that withdraw from methadone have protracted fatigue and problems with anxiety and insomnia. I often use freeze dried adrenal extracts in treatment with fairly good results. You’ll find these products listed under names such as Adrenal Plus, or Adrenplus…the starting dose is around 1000 mg per day in split doses.
· Milk Thistle with alpha-Lipoic Acid is one combination that I use extensively---for liver repair and detoxification…1200 to 1500 mg of milk thistle and 400 mg of lipoic acid per day in split doses
This is the basics. There is absolutely no way to eliminate all the problems associated with withdrawal from methadone...one must have a supportive environment and often with daily visits from a compassionate health care provider…This will not kill you…it will be a miserable event…what kills most is the movement back to street drugs to ward off the side effects of withdrawal. If fact, cold turkey deaths coming off opioids and methadone are rare and usually associated with other health problems, or overdosing on prescription medications…withdrawal from methadone is much less of a risk than total withdrawal from alcohol. I wish you all luck on this endeavor…My compassion and empathy goes out to you…Ultimately, I know that you can do this…after all…it has to be done.

rockbottom
05-18-2008, 04:07 PM
i couldn't get through all that. i just wanted to let you know you can detox from meth. i was at 120mg i quit the clinic at zero. it took me almost a year dropping 5mgs a week. i was sick every morning for a couple hrs. waiting for that dose to kick in. i remember even at ten mgs i would -get well- i do recommend methadone detox (a 3 wk program ,here in calif.) i would not recommend meth maint. youre strung out with no (benefit) of getting high. remember its called dolophine(named after Hitler) it is a devil drug and i would rather quit ct herion than be strung out on meth again--that was all just my opinion-- detox good--maint. bad-- ~Peace~ Rockbottom ps. been clean off methadone over 3 years:cool:

Mallinckrodt
05-18-2008, 04:22 PM
i couldn't get through all that. i just wanted to let you know you can detox from meth. i was at 120mg i quit the clinic at zero. it took me almost a year dropping 5mgs a week. i was sick every morning for a couple hrs. waiting for that dose to kick in. i remember even at ten mgs i would -get well- i do recommend methadone detox (a 3 wk program ,here in calif.) i would not recommend meth maint. youre strung out with no (benefit) of getting high. remember its called dolophine(named after Hitler) it is a devil drug and i would rather quit ct herion than be strung out on meth again--that was all just my opinion-- detox good--maint. bad-- ~Peace~ Rockbottom ps. been clean off methadone over 3 years:cool:

It Is Not Named After Hitler! Misinformation. I believe it is derived somewhere from Dolor Latin for pain I think, and Fin Latin for end or something like that. So to end pain.

Sometimes, maintenance can be bad and a simple detox therapy more beneficial, but in some individuals, i.e. those who have never and will never be clean from narcotics, Methadone Maintenance is the best thing out there. Why fight it and play the game on the street everyday, leaving no time to live when you could get a licit dose of 'done each day? Some people just can't 'function' without it.

And by the way, thank you to the OP. This can come in very handy. Nice find.

starglazer33
05-18-2008, 05:13 PM
It Is Not Named After Hitler! Misinformation. I believe it is derived somewhere from Dolor Latin for pain I think, and Fin Latin for end or something like that. So to end pain.

Sometimes, maintenance can be bad and a simple detox therapy more beneficial, but in some individuals, i.e. those who have never and will never be clean from narcotics, Methadone Maintenance is the best thing out there. Why fight it and play the game on the street everyday, leaving no time to live when you could get a licit dose of 'done each day? Some people just can't 'function' without it.

And by the way, thank you to the OP. This can come in very handy. Nice find.

Now that, was nicley said!:)

Chicago
05-18-2008, 05:50 PM
sorry but it is named dolphine & that is latin for end pain, but in latin it is backwards.

This is a fact & you ck it out I tried to post it up for you but I do not no how to post pics on here or quates from other sites, so ck google history of metadone.

Yea but alot of people think just b/c met was discovered in "EAST"Germeny that it being called dolphine it has to do w/adolf.

ck it out if any 1 thinks chi is on b.s. or lies.

I try to bring this site the truth & be real on my self



i couldn't get through all that. i just wanted to let you know you can detox from meth. i was at 120mg i quit the clinic at zero. it took me almost a year dropping 5mgs a week. i was sick every morning for a couple hrs. waiting for that dose to kick in. i remember even at ten mgs i would -get well- i do recommend methadone detox (a 3 wk program ,here in calif.) i would not recommend meth maint. youre strung out with no (benefit) of getting high. remember its called dolophine(named after Hitler) it is a devil drug and i would rather quit ct herion than be strung out on meth again--that was all just my opinion-- detox good--maint. bad-- ~Peace~ Rockbottom ps. been clean off methadone over 3 years:cool:

Chicago
05-18-2008, 05:52 PM
sorry bro, I only read the 2nd post & was like hold up, but u right on man, if I can give points or knew how i would.

props:)



It Is Not Named After Hitler! Misinformation. I believe it is derived somewhere from Dolor Latin for pain I think, and Fin Latin for end or something like that. So to end pain.

Sometimes, maintenance can be bad and a simple detox therapy more beneficial, but in some individuals, i.e. those who have never and will never be clean from narcotics, Methadone Maintenance is the best thing out there. Why fight it and play the game on the street everyday, leaving no time to live when you could get a licit dose of 'done each day? Some people just can't 'function' without it.

And by the way, thank you to the OP. This can come in very handy. Nice find.

Consumed.
05-26-2008, 12:17 PM
Im detoxing of 80 mg of methadone and 50 mg patches due to the doc being an ass and just making me cold turkeying. She said well "go to the ER if it gets that bad." fuckin bitch excuse my french. Any way I'm using ultram, neurontin, and tizanidine. Oh and klonopin. It really works if any wants to kick. I had no faith in it but trust me the combo works. ultram strokes the opioid just enough, the neurontin is for nerve pain your legs wont twich and you be able to sleep. The tizanidie stops spasms, and the k pin stop anxiety atacks. Once the meth is fully out of system ill probably go to the clinic unless a source comes my way. Any hope this helped happy memorial day!

Saint
05-26-2008, 12:28 PM
Im detoxing of 80 mg of methadone and 50 mg patches due to the doc being an ass and just making me cold turkeying. She said well "go to the ER if it gets that bad." fuckin bitch excuse my french. Any way I'm using ultram, neurontin, and tizanidine. Oh and klonopin. It really works if any wants to kick. I had no faith in it but trust me the combo works. ultram strokes the opioid just enough, the neurontin is for nerve pain your legs wont twich and you be able to sleep. The tizanidie stops spasms, and the k pin stop anxiety atacks. Once the meth is fully out of system ill probably go to the clinic unless a source comes my way. Any hope this helped happy memorial day!

Consumed, just curious: how much tramadol do you take? I quit methadone (again... sigh) a little over 3 months ago and use 300 mgs tramadol a day + 5 to 10 mgs valium daily and have a LOT of anxiety. Noises make me jump, I'm clumsy as hell on my bike, I'm dizzy and feel like I'm going to faint in any tiny stress situation (which fortunately I haven't done so far).
Neurontin didn't do shit for me (made me totally depressed and zombyish) so I ditched the stuff.
I have this 'cottonball depersonalised feeling' in my head all the time. Maybe I should get on some anxietymeds too, because 5 to 10 mgs valium isn't cutting it..
Could the weird feeling in my head be from anxiety/stress? I'm not in real withdrawal anymore but just feel like shit all the time (little sleep, a lot of stress).

Consumed.
05-26-2008, 12:50 PM
Consumed, just curious: how much tramadol do you take? I quit methadone (again... sigh) a little over 3 months ago and use 300 mgs tramadol a day + 5 to 10 mgs valium daily and have a LOT of anxiety. Noises make me jump, I'm clumsy as hell on my bike, I'm dizzy and feel like I'm going to faint in any tiny stress situation (which fortunately I haven't done so far).
Neurontin didn't do shit for me (made me totally depressed and zombyish) so I ditched the stuff.
I have this 'cottonball depersonalised feeling' in my head all the time. Maybe I should get on some anxietymeds too, because 5 to 10 mgs valium isn't cutting it..
Could the weird feeling in my head be from anxiety/stress? I'm not in real withdrawal anymore but just feel like shit all the time (little sleep, a lot of stress).

How long were you on done? I take 100 to 150 of ultram 3 times a day. I would try lowering your dose to 150 as at 300 mgs weird things can start happening. Seizure LIKE activity. IF its that bad go to a psychiatrist. Do you feel the same way on done?

consumed.

Saint
05-26-2008, 01:18 PM
How long were you on done? I take 100 to 150 of ultram 3 times a day. I would try lowering your dose to 150 as at 300 mgs weird things can start happening. Seizure LIKE activity. IF its that bad go to a psychiatrist. Do you feel the same way on done?

consumed.

Been on done 25 years, have seen plenty of psychs for this during last ten years already and never seemed to have a problem. (Some said it's PAWS :rolleyes:). It's AFTER the initial done-withdrawals that this BS starts.. have had it plenty times before, never ON done though.
Anyway, psychs can't find anything wrong with me.
Btw: I take 100 mgs 3 times a day so my daily total is 300 mgs!!

Tbird921
05-26-2008, 03:21 PM
Consumed, just curious: how much tramadol do you take? I quit methadone (again... sigh) a little over 3 months ago and use 300 mgs tramadol a day + 5 to 10 mgs valium daily and have a LOT of anxiety. Noises make me jump, I'm clumsy as hell on my bike, I'm dizzy and feel like I'm going to faint in any tiny stress situation (which fortunately I haven't done so far).
Neurontin didn't do shit for me (made me totally depressed and zombyish) so I ditched the stuff.
I have this 'cottonball depersonalised feeling' in my head all the time. Maybe I should get on some anxietymeds too, because 5 to 10 mgs valium isn't cutting it..
Could the weird feeling in my head be from anxiety/stress? I'm not in real withdrawal anymore but just feel like shit all the time (little sleep, a lot of stress).
IMO you could really benfit from more benzos or something stronger, like k-pins or xanax, that would help with the anxiety and stress a lot. For some reason I almost always puke on tramadol for no real reason, it just doesn't seem to sit well with me.

Saint
05-26-2008, 03:45 PM
IMO you could really benfit from more benzos or something stronger, like k-pins or xanax, that would help with the anxiety and stress a lot. For some reason I almost always puke on tramadol for no real reason, it just doesn't seem to sit well with me.

You know, I'm at wit's end or WeverTF it's called. Every time I quit methadone I can handle the first two weeks of pain and withdrawal but after that initial stage I start getting weird symptoms.

I feel totally exhausted. I wake up constantly during the night and go to work drained each morning. I have to 'act normal' though while everyone can see I'm not feeling ok. I KNOW I can't handle my job as things are now but I have to go there.. stress
I got hit by a car because my mind is in a continuous fog and I can't concentrate one bit. The shitty (and the good) thing is that I have a months holiday coming up next week but it's not gonna be much fun the way I'm feeling now.

I will talk to my doc on friday but I'm not sure if I should ask for stronger benzo's or what.. maybe just some sleepingpills so I can finally 'have a few decent nights sleep?
I really don't know: maybe I should be on other benzo's than valium and/or low dose serax. Maybe they don't work for me (anymore). I never tried xanax..
But shouldn't I feel 'normal' by now? Jezus, it has been 14 weeks off the done...
This shite happens every time I come off done.. tense muscles, pain and brainfog/exhaustion to a point where I can't take it anymore. Working while feeling like this + no decent sleep is more than I can handle.

And hardly anyone seems to recognise these symptoms (Helloooo, brainfog, anyone???? No-one has this at all?).
Sorry for my personal piss and moan but I'm so damn tired and just don't know what to do anymore...
Isn't 10 mgs valium already a benzo-addiction? Or is it not that much really? Actally, I don't even feel them anymore (I did on methadone though...).

Coddfish
05-26-2008, 04:48 PM
^^^rule of thumb for me is 1 year to get over m'done. BUT excercise will help you beyond wildest dreams. the more the better, running 5 miles a day if possible. work up to it, promise it'll help.

btw, i don't trust doctors. and i really don't trust em if they make grammatical and other errors in stuff like this. call me a snob, but i just don't.

Consumed.
05-26-2008, 05:21 PM
Been on done 25 years, have seen plenty of psychs for this during last ten years already and never seemed to have a problem. (Some said it's PAWS :rolleyes:). It's AFTER the initial done-withdrawals that this BS starts.. have had it plenty times before, never ON done though.
Anyway, psychs can't find anything wrong with me.
Btw: I take 100 mgs 3 times a day so my daily total is 300 mgs!!


Bro you where on for 25 YEARS, QUARTER CENTURY. Stop bein so pissed off at your body. Youve changed you neurochemistry permanantly and I'd imagine it would take a year or longer to feel better. 25 YEARS!! That almost my lifetime so you cant really wonder why you feel so foggy. Shit I bet if you drank orange juice for 25 years and quit it youd feel fuzzy!

red26
05-26-2008, 07:53 PM
I've been on and off the jive-juice for years now. Close to 10 actually and everything I read in the doc's note was accurate. I just got kicked outta my clinic cuz I was having a really bad day and interrupted the nurses interrogation about my benzo script with "would you just give me my medicine?" I could'nt f-in believe it. No joke.

W.D.s are terrible for me cuz of being on some much shite for so long now. Last time I tried to kick done on my own I was deep in it for 3 months before I went crawling back. Now I'm trying to go to a pain management doc that also includes holistics and nutrition, not just dope so I hope it goes o.k.

Coddfish
05-26-2008, 08:06 PM
I've been on and off the jive-juice for years now. Close to 10 actually and everything I read in the doc's note was accurate. I just got kicked outta my clinic cuz I was having a really bad day and interrupted the nurses interrogation about my benzo script with "would you just give me my medicine?" I could'nt f-in believe it. No joke.

W.D.s are terrible for me cuz of being on some much shite for so long now. Last time I tried to kick done on my own I was deep in it for 3 months before I went crawling back. Now I'm trying to go to a pain management doc that also includes holistics and nutrition, not just dope so I hope it goes o.k.
good for you, red. after dealing with some of the same stuff for about as long, that's the only route i think will really work. you gotta think, we're 10 years older than when we started. unless a person started eating great and working out the day they started the program, then his/her body is probably not in the best shape to get clean. pills aint gonna help that.

swim ate like crap and did nothing physical for 11 years. what the hell did swim think would happen off mmt? best of luck. i'm rooting for you.

red26
05-26-2008, 08:34 PM
Thanx CF. I really do appreciate it. Now I have to do a taper and I need some pillscuz I got a huge bonespurr growin outta my jaw I'm gettin removed monyana. It's hard to believe the stuff we can survive sometimes huh? Typically it things we do to ourselves too!

DCBA
05-27-2008, 05:25 AM
Anyone here forgot that codeine exists? In lower doses of methadone it is a simple switch. If not codeine than other low half-life opiates.

ANd i don't think methadone is bad for your health like the poster said.. Other than lower intestinal motility you won't have health problems. Intestinal motility can be stimulated by many things, including simple things like exercice and drinking lots and lots of water.

Saint
05-27-2008, 11:39 AM
^^^rule of thumb for me is 1 year to get over m'done. BUT excercise will help you beyond wildest dreams. the more the better, running 5 miles a day if possible. work up to it, promise it'll help.

btw, i don't trust doctors. and i really don't trust em if they make grammatical and other errors in stuff like this. call me a snob, but i just don't.

Man, I'm hardly able to get to work on my bike so I can not picture myself running 5 miles a day! But I know you have a point here. I'm off to France for a few weeks next month and I plan on walking from A to B there, about 200 kms. I can manage walking long distances I think.. So I'm hoping that walking every day will improve things or at least help me sleep.. I should quit smoking as well. But one thing at a time I guess... Also, I work from 9.00 to 18.00 and am usually not home before 19.00.. so not in the mood to do any exercise...


Bro you where on for 25 YEARS, QUARTER CENTURY. Stop bein so pissed off at your body. Youve changed you neurochemistry permanantly and I'd imagine it would take a year or longer to feel better. 25 YEARS!! That almost my lifetime so you cant really wonder why you feel so foggy. Shit I bet if you drank orange juice for 25 years and quit it youd feel fuzzy!

Maybe you're right. The weird thing is that I've never heard of other people feeling all foggy and weird after the initial withdrawal.. o.k. 9 more months to go..

HandMeSomeOpiates
06-13-2008, 11:18 PM
It Is Not Named After Hitler! Misinformation. I believe it is derived somewhere from Dolor Latin for pain I think, and Fin Latin for end or something like that. So to end pain.


^ you are correct!

OpiOEyE
07-10-2008, 06:02 PM
i couldn't get through all that. i just wanted to let you know you can detox from meth. i was at 120mg i quit the clinic at zero. it took me almost a year dropping 5mgs a week. i was sick every morning for a couple hrs. waiting for that dose to kick in. i remember even at ten mgs i would -get well- i do recommend methadone detox (a 3 wk program ,here in calif.) i would not recommend meth maint. youre strung out with no (benefit) of getting high. remember its called dolophine(named after Hitler) it is a devil drug and i would rather quit ct herion than be strung out on meth again--that was all just my opinion-- detox good--maint. bad-- ~Peace~ Rockbottom ps. been clean off methadone over 3 years:cool:



Yeah... Just so everyone knows, and a lot of you probably already do, but Dolophine was NOT named after Hitler. It comes from the latin root "dolor" which means pain, and I'm guessing phine means relief. Just thought I should put an end to the Hitler myth.

Duckfeet
07-10-2008, 06:50 PM
Nah, we'll keep bringing it back up...check out the original date of this thread...myths are what we have instead of cheerios ;-)



Yeah... Just so everyone knows, and a lot of you probably already do, but Dolophine was NOT named after Hitler. It comes from the latin root "dolor" which means pain, and I'm guessing phine means relief. Just thought I should put an end to the Hitler myth.

Narkotikon
07-10-2008, 07:24 PM
sorry but it is named dolphine & that is latin for end pain, but in latin it is backwards.

This is a fact & you ck it out I tried to post it up for you but I do not no how to post pics on here or quates from other sites, so ck google history of metadone.

Yea but alot of people think just b/c met was discovered in "EAST"Germeny that it being called dolphine it has to do w/adolf.

ck it out if any 1 thinks chi is on b.s. or lies.

I try to bring this site the truth & be real on my self


Actually, the Brand name of methadone is Dolophine, not Dolphine. It comes from the Latin "dolor," meaning "grief, pain, suffering," and the Latin "finis," meaning "end." Thus dolorphinis, meaning to end suffering / pain / grief. The reason it's spelled with a ph rather than an f is odd to me. F is almost exclusively used in Latin rather than PH (which is exclusively used in Greek), unless the Latin language is borrowing a word from Greek, then it sometimes retains the PH. The reason this is odd to me is because "finis" is a Latin word, not Greek. Sorry for the etymology lesson, but I was a Classics / History double major in college. Dolophine / methadone was not named for Adolph Hitler. That's a myth.

rockbottom
07-10-2008, 07:33 PM
i have been schooled:o

the mythbusters strike again:p

Ludakris
07-10-2008, 07:51 PM
Just in case there's any doubt in anyone's mind, and so you all know, Dolophine is actually Latin for...

I kid, I kid...I guess if there is ever a pop quiz on the origin of the word Dolophine, we'll all know the answer now...that was forcefully pounded into my head, almost thought i was having a severe case of deja-vous.

Narkotikon
11-03-2008, 01:19 AM
I was just reading this again. I just can't believe some of the stuff this "doctor" thinks. He doesn't believe that gradually lowering one's dose is better than cold turkey, and he doesn't think going cold turkey off of methadone (even high doses) is a big deal. He really said that he routinely sees and advises patients to just jump off cold turkey on doses up to 150mg. ARE YOU FUCKING CRAZY!!!!! Has he even been through methadone w/d? He also said that there's no real difference between going cold turkey from 80mg or 1mg. Of course there's going to be a big difference.

He also said that long-term use of opiates for chronic pain is actually worse, and shouldn't be used. WTF? So, if someone was in a car accident and fucked up in pain for the rest of their lives, he doesn't think they should be prescribed opiates? I'm sorry, but that's just barbaric. I mean, yes, the people will develop a tolerance, but that just means you increase the dose. What is wrong with doctors and their understanding of tolerance. Tolerance will always happen. It doesn't mean you're addicted. Everyone taking opiates for a long time will develop a tolerance, but that just means that same dose no longer is as effective, it has to be raised.

I just can't believe he thinks this shit. It sounds to me like he's one of those new-age alternative doctors trying to hawk his vitamin injection therapies as a reliable cure for w/d. I mean, I think nutrition and stuff like that do help a person recover, even possibly more quickly, but no one is going to make me think that getting a B-12 shot is the same as getting a detox dose of methadone or even as effective.

This actually really pisses me off, because it's information like this that ignorant people read, and assume that methadone is no big deal, and quit whining about w/ding from it, and that it's nothing major. It's complete bullshit, interesting, but bullshit.

It's like that lie that clinics always say: "oh, don't worry about detoxing, methadone w/d isn't as severe as heroin or morphine or oxycodone, it's actually mild, it just lasts a lot longer." BULLSHIT! Methadone w/d is just as brutal in my opinion, AND it lasts a lot longer. That's what makes it worse, not better, than heroin or morphine or other opiate w/d. I just can't get over this ignorance. I'd love for these doctors to be given 150mg of methadone every day for a year, then cut off without tapering down, and given nothing but a clonidine or a B-12 shot and see how mild or painless it really is. Fucking dumbasses.

God_Albino
11-03-2008, 03:27 AM
i don't know what to think; i've only been on daily opiates for pain for about a year now, and while i'm in almost no pain most of the time, i feel too numbed and depressed to give a shit either way. my condition is supposed to be lifelong and i'm 21 now and already sick of being dependent.

the pain program at the mayo pretty much echoes this guy's philosophy, along with preaching that opiates actually increase your pain over time. i don't think of the mayo clinic as the kind of place to blindly spout anti-drug propaganda, so that also worries me.

Thebane
11-03-2008, 12:12 PM
I like how he says all mind-altering chemicals deplete the body's nutrients. Wonder how much science backs that up, I sort of doubt EVERY mind-altering chemical has been proven to do that. His explanation for the reason methadone does it is: "methadone, like all opioids creates profound changes to gastrointestinal function," but this hardly means it necessarily prevents the absorption of nutrients, let alone all mind-altering drugs have this effect, plenty of which don't have any real impact on the digestive system. This article would get an F in most freshman-level college classes for coming to conclusions which don't follow at all from the premises and this guy is a doctor somehow.

Duckfeet
11-03-2008, 02:13 PM
I've read his shit before, and to me, it's just like all the cons around, from rapid detox, to "bupe don't get you as addicted", to people going all the way back to Burroughs fling w/apomorphine...sure, cold turkey works, if you can stand it, but it's kind of got a lingering depleted endorphin thing that just fucks everything *all* up, and me, in the last 35 years in this game, trying every motherfucking thing from liquid speed and opium in Vietnam in 1972, to alcohol, to cold turkey, found that when it got *really* bad, I'd cop, and fuck all that detoxing, whether I'm eating carrots and brown rice, or vodka and cough drops, I've learned only one sure thing about detoxing:

There Ain't No Free Lunch!

*But*, there are a lot of two-bit scam artists, con men, failed md's and other "doctors" w/dubious credentials, and idiots dropping psychodelics down in Mexico, that will swear up and down that they have found one true cure for opiate addiction: it's a lie we all want to believe: to me, there is no *cure*...once you are seriously strung out, your options are going to be *forever* changed...and there's no easy way off the shit, either...most junkies--as Burroughs pointed out, once his sanity had returned--just can't *hustle* any more past a certain point, and their veins are too shot to fix, and--if they are still alive, and not doing life somewhere...doubtful--they become alcoholics...I didn't buy that when I read his Rolling Stone article saying that very thing, a million years ago...but it was true, it was true, it was true....

But I didn't believe it, and don't want to believe it even now...but I guarantee I'll be on my deathbed before many of you, and it won't be no pearly gates, or super-hot climate change I'll be worrying about...nope, What I'll be thinking about: is *when* is my next fucking dilaudid shot coming...

rockbottom
11-03-2008, 03:07 PM
just hope for u meth detoxers---ive been off done for years now--i did a very slow taper and i didn't feel right for months after i had finished--like 6-9 months cant remember exactly--but i thought i had permanently damaged my system but eventually things got better and i felt right again so even after the detox ur not done-- it takes time for your body to get right again---so hang in there all u detoxers:cool:

Duckfeet
11-03-2008, 06:20 PM
Thanks a lot, bro: I'm o.k...went swimming today again, and so far it hasn't been bad, that I can tell...but I agree with you, that little cloud sometimes doesn't lift for a while, and often that's when people go "back out..." after the initital detox, then life settles in, and it's easy to say "fuck it..."

But I do believe that starting Yoga, around 10mg, when I did, and keeping to reasonably slow detox, is working, and I've had it both ways: months of feeling crappy, and also like it's been so far, which is "daily improvement..."

Methadone is weird drug, for sure....and we'll see: I never know, sometimes it's "not so bad" and sometimes "life sucks for a long long time..." have to wait and see....



just hope for u meth detoxers---ive been off done for years now--i did a very slow taper and i didn't feel right for months after i had finished--like 6-9 months cant remember exactly--but i thought i had permanently damaged my system but eventually things got better and i felt right again so even after the detox ur not done-- it takes time for your body to get right again---so hang in there all u detoxers:cool:

oldschool?
02-17-2009, 09:28 PM
I really wanted to post a reply about how the allied forces cut off hitlers opiate supply requireing them to make a synthetic which they named after him....

however instead I did 30 seconds of research and found this a winkipedia

Origin of Dolophine name

A persistent but untrue urban legend (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_legend) claims that the trade name "Dolophine" was coined in tribute to Adolf Hitler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler) by its German creators, and it is sometimes even claimed that the drug was originally named "adolphine" or "adolophine" or "Dolphamine". The claim is still presented as fact by Church of Scientology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Scientology) literature[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methadone#cite_note-0) and was repeated by actor and vocal Scientologist Tom Cruise (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Cruise) in a 2005 Entertainment Weekly (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entertainment_Weekly) interview.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methadone#cite_note-1) However, as the magazine pointed out, this is not true: the name "Dolophine" was in fact created after the war by the American branch of Eli Lilly (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eli_Lilly_and_Company),[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methadone#cite_note-2) and the pejorative term "adolphine" (never an actual name of the drug) appeared in the United States in the early 1970s.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methadone#cite_note-3)

[/URL]
....so it wasn't even made in germany!! i guess i'm a sucker for urban legends!!
[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methadone#cite_note-3"] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methadone#cite_note-3)

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methadone#cite_note-3)

Opiyum
02-17-2009, 11:01 PM
I was just reading this again. I just can't believe some of the stuff this "doctor" thinks. He doesn't believe that gradually lowering one's dose is better than cold turkey, and he doesn't think going cold turkey off of methadone (even high doses) is a big deal. He really said that he routinely sees and advises patients to just jump off cold turkey on doses up to 150mg. ARE YOU FUCKING CRAZY!!!!! Has he even been through methadone w/d? He also said that there's no real difference between going cold turkey from 80mg or 1mg. Of course there's going to be a big difference.

He also said that long-term use of opiates for chronic pain is actually worse, and shouldn't be used. WTF? So, if someone was in a car accident and fucked up in pain for the rest of their lives, he doesn't think they should be prescribed opiates? I'm sorry, but that's just barbaric. I mean, yes, the people will develop a tolerance, but that just means you increase the dose. What is wrong with doctors and their understanding of tolerance. Tolerance will always happen. It doesn't mean you're addicted. Everyone taking opiates for a long time will develop a tolerance, but that just means that same dose no longer is as effective, it has to be raised.

I just can't believe he thinks this shit. It sounds to me like he's one of those new-age alternative doctors trying to hawk his vitamin injection therapies as a reliable cure for w/d. I mean, I think nutrition and stuff like that do help a person recover, even possibly more quickly, but no one is going to make me think that getting a B-12 shot is the same as getting a detox dose of methadone or even as effective.

This actually really pisses me off, because it's information like this that ignorant people read, and assume that methadone is no big deal, and quit whining about w/ding from it, and that it's nothing major. It's complete bullshit, interesting, but bullshit.

It's like that lie that clinics always say: "oh, don't worry about detoxing, methadone w/d isn't as severe as heroin or morphine or oxycodone, it's actually mild, it just lasts a lot longer." BULLSHIT! Methadone w/d is just as brutal in my opinion, AND it lasts a lot longer. That's what makes it worse, not better, than heroin or morphine or other opiate w/d. I just can't get over this ignorance. I'd love for these doctors to be given 150mg of methadone every day for a year, then cut off without tapering down, and given nothing but a clonidine or a B-12 shot and see how mild or painless it really is. Fucking dumbasses.

I think your reading into this a little too much. Your forgetting the parts where he mentions it's different for everyone and that I think is the central theme of this "No free lunch" article.
When he is talking about how methadone devastates the body and states " Methadone is one of the most physically dependent medications invented in the 20th century." is he saying that to make it seem safer and less of a big deal than it is?

I'm always for people who are trying to help other people get healthy. Short of kidnapping and locking a person in a room of course but anyone trying any method that helps to ease WD's and help the body get healthy again is ok in my book.

Raz
02-18-2009, 12:54 AM
My wife has just started me an her on some Milk Thistle,protien shakes and more regular healthy meals per day.....

I swear i feel much better, brain workin better and even feeling a bit like my old self, better functioning lungs even....As swim smokes everyting he takes,the lungs are kinda important....:rolleyes:.....

But since i been doin this i been feelin a lot lot better, more upbeat/dynamic etc etc....So da dude does speaketh some truth.....

But like he also said, "we are all different and theres no free lunch" so to eventually to get off dis shit i know i'm gonna have to tolerate some suffering....Minimising dat is da key ,im0....