Opiates in Cheese!

[SynthMorph]

No wonder I love eating cheese so much.

http://beandiet.blogspot.com/2008/02/cheese-opiates.html

so more info:

http://www.healthdiaries.com/blogs/vegetarianblues/archives/2004/09/casein_and_cheese_more_addictive_than_chocolate.ht ml

[SeVeN]

Maybe when I blow my liver out from all the drinking I can get replaced with a cows liver.

[Poppylvr]

No wonder I love eating cheese so much.

http://beandiet.blogspot.com/2008/02/cheese-opiates.html

so more info:

http://www.healthdiaries.com/blogs/vegetarianblues/archives/2004/09/casein_and_cheese_more_addictive_than_chocolate.ht ml

HA! Now I know why I love ice cream so much!

[Synack]

so this is why those sick fucks buy human breast milk to drink...seems they knew something we didn't..

[Saint]

so this is why those sick fucks buy human breast milk to drink...seems they knew something we didn't..

Or maybe we got addicted from breastfeeding as a baby in the first place we all have massive EDS..

[irish]

It would be interesting to see the percentage of opiate users/addicts that were breastfed compared to the general population.

[Inspektahdek]

this explains my milk habit....

[Saint]

It would be interesting to see the percentage of opiate users/addicts that were breastfed compared to the general population.

Interesting question yes. I was breastfed for 3 days but then my mother's milkmachine stopped abruptly because of a disease (seriously)

maybe I'm just still hungry...

[Pandora]

It would be interesting to see the percentage of opiate users/addicts that were breastfed compared to the general population.

Start a poll. I personally wasn't. Only for a couple of days because I got jaundice so bad they wouldn't even let my mom touch me and I almost didn't make it.

Maybe that first taste was all I needed, and now I'm trying to make up for all those highs I lost as an infant.

-Pan

PS: I knew living in Wisconsin was good for something. Proud to be a cheesehead, always will be!

[HowLongIsTooLong]

Wisconsin white american (the high-fat kind) might be the best substance known to man. Fat carries flavor, you know, and this shit has it in abundance.

There is a cheesesteak place here in the west village (3rd street between macdougal and 6th) that only sells one sandwich, but it is a dilly! Ultrathin ribeye... marinated onions... some spicy ketchup concoction... on a poppy Kaiser roll... and it has two slices of that high fat white american. From Wisconsin. My stomach is grumbling right now.

Ribeye.

D

[jonny-5]

everyone go click on the first link in the original post! the latest comment by anonymous is from me...you guys can appreciate it! im serious go do it!

[Poppylvr]

Silly jonny-5!

[Euphoricgirl]

everyone go click on the first link in the original post! the latest comment by anonymous is from me...you guys can appreciate it! im serious go do it!

I needed a good laugh this morning Johnny! Good one.

[upstate_007]

I love me some cheese. The stinkier the better. Breast milk was the menu item every day for little baby upstate as well.

[roxi*stardust]

It would be interesting to see the percentage of opiate users/addicts that were breastfed compared to the general population.
I was not breastfed. Someone should do a poll. Anyway, I would like to see some real scienctific evidence of this, the above articles are not backed up by any science. Seems like two hippies theories to me. Someone show me some real evidence.

[RxQueen]

a-ha!! a new place to shift the blame for my addictions! mommy breast-fed me and made me a junky! i KNEW it wasn't my fault.

now i'm craving a big plate of ricotta stuffed pasta shells topped with thick layers of gooey mozzerella, washed down by a frosty cold glass of milk. (with a dope appetizer, of course... and some morphine-chip ice cream for dessert). mmmmm......

now where'd i leave that big blocka cheddar?.....


:D

[upstate_007]

a-ha!! a new place to shift the blame for my addictions! mommy breast-fed me and made me a junky! i KNEW it wasn't my fault.

now i'm craving a big plate of ricotta stuffed pasta shells topped with thick layers of gooey mozzerella, washed down by a frosty cold glass of milk. (with a dope appetizer, of course... and some morphine-chip ice cream for dessert). mmmmm......

now where'd i leave that big blocka cheddar?.....


:D

Can I come over for dinner? Please? That sounds like a bit of heaven right there.

[red26]

It would be interesting to see the percentage of opiate users/addicts that were breastfed compared to the general population.
Good topic! If it was'nt for the o-files...

a while ago we were talking about the presance of morphine in milk and dairy, its true!:D

[SynthMorph]

Casomorphin is the opiate in there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casomorphin

[eveline]

My favorite part is

"I feel cheated, fooled, angry, repulsed, and depressed that people can be so evil." (as to market cheese to her)

I mean... really? Really?

[Porcupine]

I wasn't breastfed : /


I think if trends mean anything, 3 or 4 of us so far were not breastfed, to 1 of us that was. Obviously this is no indication, however it is pretty interesting.

On the contrary, i've always likened opiates to a feeling of peace, and at-home-ness. It would be interesting to conclude that people who are addicted to opiates may on some level be trying to rekindle the bond between mother and son/daughter.

Perhaps Freud was right?

What would be even more interesting is if it is found that a far greater percentage of opiate users were not breastfed. Possibly compensating for the lack of the "bond" and using opiates to sooth the past transgressions.

[Woowoo]

From the link provided http://www.healthdiaries.com/blogs/vegetarianblues/archives/2004/09/casein_and_cheese_more_addictive_than_chocolate.ht ml

Why is cheese so addicting? Certainly not because of its aroma, which is perilously close to old socks. The first hint of a biochemical explanation came in 1981, when scientists at Wellcome Research Laboratories in Research Triangle Park, N.C., found a substance in dairy products that looked remarkably like morphine. After a complex series of tests, they determined that, surprisingly enough, it actually was morphine.

And from the other link http://beandiet.blogspot.com/2008/02/cheese-opiates.html

Cow's milk actually has traces of morphine it it... along with codeine and other opiates (since they are) naturally produced in cows' livers and end up in their milk.

I have to call bullshit on this. I really don't believe this. Consider:

1 - Morphine is a complex molecule which hitherto was only known to exist in poppies. That it should be produced in an animal seems very unlikely. Of course, evolution often stumbles upon two identical solutions to the same problem, but I don't believe that this could have happened in this case. Morphine is just a plant's mimicry of the endorphins that mammals produce in the hypothalamus region of their brains. If a cow's liver was going to excrete a chemical to trigger opiate receptors, it would resemble real cow-endorphins more than it would resemble the poppy's endorphin substitute that we call "morphine."

2 - The first article contradicts itself, because in the very next paragraph it forgets all about the outlandish claim that cow's produce morphine in their liver and the story suddenly changes--then they identify the chemical as casomorphin, a morphine-like chemical.

3 - Both of these websites are vegetarian sites, and the articles are presented with a "You see? Cheese is evil!" slant. So they were motivated to overstate their case. I'm surprised they didn't try to claim that there was heroin in cow's liver.

4 - The second article goes further to claim that cows not only produce morphine but codeine as well. At this point I have to say I totally lose all faith in the credibility of the reporting. You expect me to believe that by fantastic coincidence cow's produce morphine in their livers, and oh by the way, also by fantastic coincidence they produce codeine as well? Yeah riiiiiight.

To clarify: I totally believe that milk and cheese contain opiods ... namely this casomorphin stuff. But it's not morphine. I've noticed that these whacky vegetarians like to play fast and loose with the scientific facts.

[Porcupine]

^That's a really good point ^

[RxQueen]

dammit woo, you're a sharp one. good point w/ the vegetarian propaganda. but you didn't answer the question.... were you BREASTFED? :D

[Woowoo]

dammit woo, you're a sharp one. good point w/ the vegetarian propaganda. but you didn't answer the question.... were you BREASTFED? :D
Yeah I was breast fed.

That's why I'm not obsessed with boobs like half of America is. Like a friend told me "Lately I've only had two things on my mind... TITS!"

[Indy]

Yeah, i've looked into this before. It's NOT morphine OR codeine: it's casomorphan. Casomorphan is an opioid PEPTIDE found in milk and cheese, like the ones that are found in your brain already (enkephalins and endorphins). If it DID get into your brain in high enough amounts it would work, BUT:

1. It is almost instantly destroyed in the digestive tract and no, it doesn't break down into other active opioids.

2. I believe they're produced IN the brain, so they don't cross the blood brain barrier.

3. It's in INCREDIBLY miniscule amounts. Like you'd have to eat pound after pound of cheese to get enough to do ANYTHING (that's assuming the peptides worked at all.

It's pretty much like the whole "chocolate gets you high" BS. Chocolate has theobromine in it which is a bit stimulating, but it's in pretty small amounts. It IS active IIRC at doses found in dark chocolate, but it's really just a mild stimulant that is a lot more comfortable than caffeine (which is also found in chocolate but in amounts too small to count unless you eat a LOT of chocolate, although it is possible).

They say "chocolate releases endorphins" but they really don't understand what they're saying most of the time. YES eating chocolate releases endorphins. You know why? because it tastes good. pizza releases endorphins for the same reason. same with root beer, delicious candies, and pretty much any food you like.

that's not to say chocolate isn't good for you: it has plenty of antioxidants, and theobromine is actually really good for cough suppression in high doses. those are just a couple, there are plenty of health benefits for DARK chocolate. sure, milk/semisweet chocolate has some benefits, but to get anything significant you really need to have dark chocolate.

so chocolate is great for you, it just doesn't get you high. there's lots of studies that show some sort of results and they take it and say "hmm this would sound really good on a documentary about chocolate, let's use some deceptive language, skew the stats and VOILA! chocolate is more powerful than heroin!" sure it makes you feel good, but that's cause it tastes SOOOO damn good.

[jacky]

as well as these casomorphines, there is also a related material called casien which is taken from wheat, similiar to casomorphine.
casien is changed in the gut into an opiate active compound. casien is what makes non dairy creamer taste creamy

there are many research casomorphine type compounds avialable from peptide supply companies.
I am sure that they are trying to invent one that defies enzyme catabolic action in the gut.

also, they have found small amounts of morphine in milk, and so one would guess that cheese might have similiar trace material.

ruboscoline I believe is a related type of compound found in spinach.

sounds like my lunch earlier, indian food, spinach, cheese, cream, yougurt sauce, and some non dairy creamer.
man, I am loaded with the peptide overkill.

the potential for opiate/opioid active material is just huge out in nature, mans activity of synthesis can exponentially increase that...
in the future it wont be just bug powder dust, or mugwhump gism, it will also include bacterial colonys, cow gack, and other cultured delights for the opiopharmacopiea

[Porcupine]

This might be off topic now but after what the skeptical guy said I re-read the article and it sounds like a bad joke. Think about it: "The presentation ended with a comic of two spiders at the end of a slide saying if we do this we eat like kings" or whatever. That's just absurd is what it is.

[JrodDaJuggla]

If it were true imagine all the false positives being caused by 'cheese eaters.' (On UA's)

[jacky]

chocolate contains anandamide, this is an endorphin that occupys the "thc" receptor.
actually the "thc" receptor, is really the anandamide receptor.

anandamide is usually destroyed in the stomach, but from what I understand, various anandamide like compounds also present in chocolate inhibit the enzyme destruction in the stomach. allowing for anandamide to get through into the bloodstream.

chocolate will fucking RUIN you if you combine it with opiates and a few herbs in the right amounts.
I did one night, and felt the strongest analgesia in my forearms I have every felt. I also could barely ride my bike, and puked all the way home
chocolate is an opiate potentiation tool for sure.
I was consuming at this time, about 1-2 ounces of straight cocao powder daily, this expereince however I upped the dose to about 4 ounces of chocolate powder mixed with water, and honey, and my REGULAR dose of poppy seeds.
its hard necking that much straight cocao, but the experience was worth it.
I didnt stop puking till I could lay down. the opiate hangover I had was similiar to doing to much heroin.

why else would some doctors be ok'd to prescribe naltrexone for chocolate habituation to stupid worried housewives?

somewhere in chocolate, is a very strong interaction with opiates, at least this is what I think. I use alot of straight cocao powder when kicking, and it really fucking helps. I am not talking about eating candy bars, but real, psychonaught doses, daily doses, built on one another.

I did this chocolate supplementation for a few months.
its hard to neck that much chocolate, but if you do it in water, it goes down easy with little fats or sweets to make you a fat ass.

these casien and casomorphin peptides are no joke, they exist, and the research into them has been going on for years.
some people think they are behind some types of autism, and some autistic kids test postivive for high amounts of a certian opioid compound that is a metabolic or catabolic product of casien/casomorphin consumption.

seeing as how natural opiates enforce learning, social interaction, and especially social interaction with ones family, I could see how this hypothesis might have some validity.
if a kid from an early age is supplied with these exogenous opioid compounds, that might replace learning and social interaction rewards, and thus, the kids might descend into autism because the reward system is satisfied before any interaction or learning is initiated.
look what happens to chronic junkys.

morphine and beta endorphin are used in the body somehow, beta endorphin is far more researched than morphine, at least endogenously speaking.
but morphine shows some efficasy in actually increasing mathematical problem solving, and also helps to increase reaction times.
beta endorphin is used by the body for learning, memory recall, and other functions.
these natural opiates are neurohormones, and endocrinologists are studying this amongst other neuro researchers.

check out my posts on paradoxical stimulation and the book "Zen and the brain" by James H Austin, a neurosurgeon researcher. you will see that opiates play far more roles that just pain suppression in the human body.
in my opinion, the peak effecient state of awareness if just as enhanced by opiates as the dopamine system. in actuallity, it is impossible to consider the opiate and dopamine systems seperate.

in this book, the author, a person who has devoted his life to the study of the brain and zen meditation, states that natural opiates play a very important role in the zen experience. this guy is a neurosurgeon, and one of the team that first helped to discover the natural endorphins activity in humans and animals.

zen practitioners dont normally go around giving support to compounds that are normally demonized by the general monastic traditions as being poisons to the mind and body...
opiates provide some of the only real comfort we can give the dying, this makes opiates a double edged sword so to speak, one of our best tools for relieving suffering, even though abused they can help a person descend into states of addiction and self abuse.
overall, opiates are far more helpful to society than detrimental, that is why they will always be around.

anyway, I think opioid active compounds will continue to be found in the most mundane of places, in various plants all over the world, in almost all animals on earth, and in various products made from these two biological sources.
hell, who knows, if lithium can effect the body in positive/psychoactive ways, maybe we will find some mineral substance that also effects the opiate receptors! its a possibility.

[OxyContinuously]

Jacky, my dude that was really an *excellent* post.

I am intrigued about the chocolate-to-opiates relationship you were discussing with us, and also the cacao(sp?) powder that you used as a supplement...even more mind-boggling to me is how *much* of an effect it had. I never would have thought that...I remember a while ago in another thread you were telling us about chocolate as a potentiator, but I was unaware that it enhances opiates/-oids to such a degree...not even a degree: more like an order of magnitude!!

very, very interesting stuff, bro and you put it together so concisely!

take care
T

[effervescingelephant]

I was breastfed