Some general questions, insight desired.

[jacobs ladder]

hello everyone ! im a relatively new user to this board and i have some questions directed to the experienced opiate users. Ive recently come across a consistent connection for oxycodone for both 20 and 40 mg.
1)i have never taken more than 80 mg a day for more than a week. usually 40 mg is my average. after that my supply generally runs out for a week or two, sometimes longer.in the past , after a 5 or 6 day binge of 20 or 20mg oxycodone ir's, i felt pretty crummy for about 5 or 6 days.how much more severe in everyones opinion are the withdrawls from lets say prolonging this usage for another week ? Lets say two weeks at 40 -60 mg a day ingested orally.i realize in comparison to most users on this board this is a vry small amount, but id like to get a general expectation. Im going to be on a vacation and i probably wont have anything several days before i leave, and i really dont want to be completely incapacitated.

2) i am currently tapering off ativan which i was taking for very mild anxiety. i take .25 mg once a day and i usually wait 4 to 5 hours after ive ingested my last opiate. is this safe ?ive heard that mixing benzos and opiates can be harmful.

3)lastly, ive noticed after taking 80 mg of oxycodone orally throughout the day, first dose 20 mg at 10 am, then 40mg at 3 pm, then 20 mg at 10 pm, my chest begins to feel very heavy and my lower back begins to feel fatigued and sore. can oxycodone, even spread out like that, potentially cause breathing problems ? i did consume a moderate amount of alcohol between the hours of 400 pm and 1100 pm. approximately 5 beers. ive also notices a difficult time sleeping with the opiates in my system. is it normal for these reactions to occur ?

any insight and response is greatly appreciated thank you.

[GMorris]

Actually, what you are taking is not that low of a dose. You are lucky that your initial "withdrawal" has not been more severe, and I can tell you that if you extend the using period that it will become MUCH worse. My advice would be to either continue using just a few days in a row and take a good break, or if you do use for longer, try and taper down, using just as much as you have to to keep from feeling "crummy" as you put it.

As for the Ativan combined with it, that low of a dose is not likely to cause you any problems. I've mixed benzos in small amounts with opies over the years with no adverse effect, just be careful and know your limit and you should be allright.

ANY opiate/opiod in sufficient amounts is going to cause that "heaviness" in the chest (which, by the way, is one of the feelings I enjoy the most about opies!) and can cause breathing difficulty, as respiratory depression is the major side effect that can cause you a problem. Thousands of people end up in emergency rooms every year with overdose that, untreated can stop the breathing altogether (generally resulting in death). Also, be careful with the drink, it has almost the exact effect on opies as benzos do, and the two together can potentiate and send you somewhere you don't want to go. As for the sleeping thing, if you're gonna be an opie user you'll just have to get used to that. My solution is to either stop use several hours before bed, or if needed just a fraction of the normal dose but again not TOO close to bedtime. Eventually you will adjust and it won't be so bad, but by that time you'll most likely just be maintaining and not using to get buzzed anymore. It's a sad thing, but it happens.

Hope that helps some!

[jab]

1) The longer you use, before stopping, the worse it will be. Two weeks is worse than one, and three is worse than two, and so on; ad infinitum. As this progresses your tollerance will also go up, so you'll need more than what is currently "working" for you. Soon 80 mg a day won't even keep the sickness at bay. The kicking doesn't usually last much longer, but the intensity will get much much worse, as well as some increase in duration.

2) Mixing benzos with opiates is a bad idea due to the increased resperitory effects (slows it down). Unfortunately, as you've noticed, it also can act as a potnetiator; which makes it more fun. But there is definately an increased risk of resperatory issues. Be safe mixing these two!

3) It is very possible that you are taking enough of the two (benzos and opiates) together to cause some of these negative effects later in the day. Then, remember, alcohol makes benzos stronger, which in turn will make the interaction between the three even more unpredictable and ultimately more dangerous. I would suggest cutting at least one of these three down, if not out completely, to avoid these type of reactions. My suggestion being alcohol; but to each his own.

None of what I've said means that you will have any issues with what you are doing. You likely won't, as the doses are rather low and you've been doing it for a while, but in the interest of harm reduction I wanted to at least warn you of the possible side effects.

Good luck, have fun, and party safe!!

[jab]

Good stuff Gmorris, I should of waited and just let you type it all out. ;)

[mmnyc9]

Be very careful with the Benzos depending the length of time your dosage.Age,weight .... Alcohol and Pills are the worst Detoxs, from a Medical stand point.It sounds like your on a low doss of Ativan and your doing it the right way, Slow taper. Seizures many different Medical problems can occur when someone stops taking benzos abruptly. People die from these two more than any other. You need to be even more careful with the combinations Opiate/Benzo/Alcohol=OD. It sounds like you have it under control, still even small amounts of these can put you out.

[jacobs ladder]

well thank you everyone for your responses. i will definately heed to all your advice and warnings. to clarify a bit, i usually dont drink while on oxycodone. I especially try to avoid alcohol when taking any opiate with apap as i know it can increase the likelyhood of internal bleeding. Yesterday was certainly a rarity as i never take 80 mg in one day. By the end of the day i was physically exhausted from the expereince. i really felt the last 20 mg i ingested didnt make me feel good at all, rather began to make me sick. I seldomly drink even without opiates, so im sure the 5 beers had something to do with the negative effects i was feeling. It was hard for me to imagine that those drinks could have had such an effect when spaced over 6 hours. As well, i plan on taking no more than 3 20 mg's a day. And i certianly will begin a taper wheni start to run, low. Posssibly, two for a couple days, then one, then half. That will hopefully give me 4 or 5 days to get over the initial feeling of wd. When i used the word crummy i did so without really implying the true symptoms of wd , as im sure most here are familiar with. By no means is coming down of oxy's fun. I get very nauseas the first day or two but primarly what gets me is the restlessness, extreme lerthagy, depression, and cravings. I also get very agitated, however, at no time in the past was unable to force myself to work or go to school. I have read posts on this board, where people who were taking 100 + mg of oxy a day for months or years come off, and are so physically sick they cant leave thei house for weeks. So my concerns were basically how my withdrawl from 60 mg a day for a week , or so would compare to those i have expereinced in the past. As for the ativan , i do not it recreationally at all, in fact i hate it. I made the mistake in the past , of tring to cold turkey wd from both 1 mg of ativan and 45 mg of remeron a day. After 5 days i had to go to the er because i was certain i was dying. Benzo withdrawl is the absolute worst, and its taken me 3 months to taper down .25 mgs successfully.

[mmnyc9]

Yeah coming off Benzos suck! I made the same mistake off stopping. Years ago I was eating Xanix like it was Candy. I stopped without tapering. 9 days latter I was Hallucinating, I had Seizures. I spent 3 weeks in the Hospital. One thing about Opiates. You can stop for a week and start up again and be addicted fast. In other words the longer you do them and stop the longer you have to stay off of them. I know plenty off people myself included who have to wait a Month before I was clean. In the beginning it was 3 days, 72 hours and I was good to go, as time went by the time in between kept getting longer and longer. It sounds like you have a good handle on it.

[jacobs ladder]

how much xanax where you taking when you went cold turkey ? i had a friend who was on close to 10 mg of xanax a day for 5 years or so, then one day his doc was lke okay no more. THe guy seriously almost died. i feel bad talking to him about withdrawls because im only withdrwing from 1 mg of ativan and iv eonly been taking for about 4 months. But still to me it was a horrible expereince when i went CT.ive also noticed that Ill run out of oc's and be stressed for a week. By the time they come around again , usually 2 weeks or so, ive sworn off pain meds. Ill go about a month or two , and then be like ah what the hell. Pikc up 20 or so , go strong for a week or two, run out, withdraw and hate myself, and then swear them off for a while again. Its a funny cycle. Its a good thing in a way , because it keeps my tolerance lower and i catn get majorily addicted simply because they just arent available where i am. I wont use iv or smoke , only oral ingest. So street smak and all that is out of the qeustion. Im actually terrified of anything stronger, for example my neighbor has methadone but i wont touch after seeing just how involved he is with it. the oc's do just fine by me and even too much of them makes me feel like garbage. I took 60 mg of oxy through out today, and i think even that is too much for me. I was seriously noding off everywhere, work , sub shop, and even DRIVING, which was scary. I think 40mg is my functional limit.

[mmnyc9]

I was down to 3 mgs I think,it really sucked. I am still on it for stress but I get it from a Doctor. I am on (.5)half mg 2 maybe 3 times aday. My DR is a Addiction specialist. He is really cool and I am lucky to have found him. He gives me what I want I don't abuse this because he trusts me. I had dental work done and this shithead dentist would not give me anything. My Dr gave me Percs or Tylenol 3. Ativan is one of the weaker Benzos it sounds like your on a pretty low dose. Your right Benzos are some scary shift. I have never experienced something so bad in my life. At one point I was taking over 10 mgs a day. It's weird the other day someone came up to me and asked for a dollar or two, he needed five bucks for a Stick (2 mg) I told him to walk with me I would give him a buck or so when we were walking he told me he was sick and needed to score a stick badly. I gave him $5 bucks- the guy hugged me he even gave me a kiss on the cheek ( talk about grateful ) I been there so I know what it's like.

[shaunclo]

Like everyone else said, you sound like you have some what of a grip on it, but be careful, just because you wont touch anything else, doesnt mean that oxycodone is weak shit. Its actually a very strong, in my opinion, if not one of the strongest in the OD risk facture. I have almost OD'd on what I thought was a small amount of oxy a long time ago. 80 mg's can kill a opiate naive person if IV'd. Actually I think that was like one of the first scares when it came to oxycontin.A kid got his hands on an 80 mg pill and shot it, well he died. People undererstimate oxy's. The only thing that sucks about oxy is your tolerance shoots up there soo fuckin quick. You have probably already noticed that though.

Try to take breaks if possible, I know its hard when they are there, but it makes it all the better when you decide to go on a little binge. Have fun

[GMorris]

No doubt Oxy is one of the stronger opiates. My cousin was prescribed the OC 20's for bad back pain after a serious car accident and numerous surgeries. He was a big time doper back in the 70's so he knew what it was all about and was most likely using them for the pain AND to get high as well. One doctor visit he told the doc that the 20's weren't cutting it anymore and asked for an increase. I've not been told the whole story, and don't really know if anyone else was either, but somehow he talked the guy in to giving him the 80's! Most of the time, a doctor would just up him to the 40's or give him some of the OC 10's to supplement or even give him a "breakthrough" medication, but not this doc. Regardless of how he managed that, he was found dead the day after filling the script, Oxycodone OD. We (the family) still don't know if it was accidental or a suicide, and only my cousin could clear that up, but here is a guy who takes OC daily and all of a sudden he OD's on the shit? That just seems kind of fishy to me. Anyway, I'd take it easy on those if you are going to be without for a while, save up and take them with you on vacation if at all possible, you'll enjoy both the buzz and the vacation a lot more! And be careful for goodness' sake, that Oxy has a way of sneaking up on you and biting you on the ass. I was hooked on Percodan back in the 80's so I know what the withdrawal is like. Taking 12 - 20 of those per day it was a pretty hefty amount, even at 5mg. per pill. I enjoyed the hell out of the Percs while I had them, but boy when I ran out I was a sick SOB. Just be careful and heed the words of the experienced...

[jacobs ladder]

i no doubt agree. these things are quite the addiction. I think fortunately , i cant really go more then a week, week and a half taking them.I usually get tired of them after that peroid of time as one or two barely get me goin. Like you guys said , the tolerance level shoots up massively , even only after a week or so. Also, my connections are very inconsistent, so the 20 and the 40's wll be around for a couple of weeks and then gone. This is acutally good for me even though i hate,simply because i just cant get them. Of course after 5 or 6 days the withdraw and mjaor cravings are over for me. If a month goes by i almost compltely forget. However, lately it seemslike theyve been around a bit more, and a little cheaper so ive noticed myself doin them a bit more. I was talking to a chef at my work and he had mjaor back surgery and was prescribed oxy 20's for a months or so. He said it was horrible trying to kick them. I couldnt imagine being on these things for a month, ive neve gone longer than 7 or 8 days , usually only 40 mg a day if that. So far the wd's havent been too bad, i just try to take it easy, and stay AWAY from alcohol. Alcohol does nothing but put you in a bad frame of mind when you are already not feeling too hot. Plus it makes me crave even more. Im definately goona chill after this weekend, and save the 20's i have left for my trip to cali in a few weeks. Im hoping that only 4 or 5 days of abuse wont be too much of come down.