Ms Contin+Klonopin

[NARKOS]

I take 0.5 mg of Klonopin daily for panic attacks.(and effexor xr). I wanted to use Ms Contin for pain relief, Vicodin seems to help the best among the opiates besides opium itself. I have tried percocet(makes me jumpy),darvocet, and proproxyphene(too weak). Because of the long half life that Ms Contin has(12hrs), i am afraid that i could have an adverse reaction. When i took morphine in the hospital through IV, i seemed to have a very high tolerance(even though i never used opiates before). The doctors were shocked after giving me 3mg of pure morphine, they asked if i was a heroin addict and started looking for track marks because of my amazing tolerance. They said they have never seen anything like this before. They finally gave me 2mg of dilaudid with the 3mg of morphine and that seemed to dull the pain a little bit. (i had a disk removed from the bottom of my spine and 8 titanium bars put in from an 18 wheeler hitting my car from behind). From that accident i have constant back pain and the only opiate that works is opium for the pain, but i am waiting for my harvest. Does anyone know if the Ms Contin will help me until i can harvest my opium? Someone please help, I can't stand the pain any longer. Thanks to anyone who can help and God Bless.

[superman]

"Does anyone know if the Ms Contin will help me until i can harvest my opium?"

Absolutely it will. the most active ingredient of opium is morphine. morphine cuts through all my worst back pain and even lets me do hard work.
I would suggest maybe even using the morphine so that you don't need to use as much opium. if you're already on morphine, and have some breakthrough pain then you could just smoke a little opium vs. a full dose.

hope this helps

[earthenone]

It will work, depending on how you do it, and how much you do, tollerance is the key. If you have a back injury, your tollerance will probably never go down since if you stop taking opiates you will hurt, I speak from experience on that just get used to it. I dont know about mixing it with klonopin daily.

[GMorris]

This is interesting, I talked to a guy some time ago who said almost the same thing about Morphine. He was in the hospital for some procedure or an accident (can't remember exactly), they gave him Morphine for pain and he said he had zero pain relief. They gave him more, and again nothing. This is an old country boy who claims he has no interest in recreational dope at all. The doctors them gave him a shot of Demerol on top of the Morphine, and he said it was almost instant relief. From what I've heard, there are some who just don't experience any effects from pharmaceutical Morphine, but for whom opium will work. Maybe that's just how their chemistry is, or maybe God created the poppy with its complex alkaloid composition for a reason? Who knows? This is not common, but it is a recognized phenomenon nonetheless. Maybe something like Oxy will work much better for such patients, or a formualtion like Pantopon (don't know if it even still exists), which is just a pharmy extract of opium itself. I think I'm going to search around and see if I can find some studies or something about this. I can't imagine not getting any pain relief from Morphine, that's just scary!

[mmnyc9]

I have heard the same exact thing. Morphine would not work but 50 or 75mgs Demerol would do wonders.

[Mokelly]

Now I know what I'll say next time I need some good pain relief at the ER, "Morphine doesn't work on me for some reason Doc" lol. But seriously, that's a phenomenon I've heard of before, not reacting to the morphine that is. Pretty uncommon I guess but at least most Doctors recognize it like GMorris said. The good thing is that people who endure this problem will most likely be getting some much better I.V. shit though!

[mmnyc9]

I think Demerol is given to people who are allergic to Morphine. Or can't take Morphine based Drugs.

[exitwound]

I think Demerol is given to people who are allergic to Morphine. Or can't take Morphine based Drugs.

That's one of the first choices in the arsenal. I would say, based on my mother's (who has an even stronger enzyme mutation gene than I, making her very intolerant of most opioids) recent experience as she battled Pancreatitis and then major surgery to repair her organs:

*Mepergan (combination of Meperidine aka Demerol, and Phenergan - an anti-nausea antihistamine which also potentiates most opiates slightly)
*Fentanyl
*Dilaudid

[THEPAINTER1960]

I have heard the same exact thing. Morphine would not work but 50 or 75mgs Demerol would do wonders.
Now i am just the opposite i can take all the mepirdine you have orally. And man it does nothing to me. Now I.V. was a different story i could feel it but nothing like slamming a nice 100 ms-contin. To me , my personal feeling is demoral is not for me. See ya.

[mmnyc9]

It's amazing how so many people react differently to the same Opiates even the same dosage's. I believe it has something to do with individuals endorphin receptors or the Endorphin itself. Depressive type personalities probably the best example. Some people might be born with the ability to process these chemicals in a effective or ineffective way.

[ontario_opiophile]

Demerol seems to be alot stronger than morphine for me. I don't like demerol though, but taking 6-7, 50mg Demerol's would knock me unconcious and have me choking on my own tongue. And that much morphine wouldnt do much. I remember once I had a huge bottle of demerol 50's and I brought them on a church camping trip lol. I got fucked up every night and snuck away and smoked cigarettes under the stars. And no one was the wiser. lol. Oh good memories. I tried to sniff some demerol when i was up in algonquin park on that camping trip and it burnt like a motherfucker. Don't ever sniff demerol it's awful! it's like sniffing pennicillin it's evil. And don't ask me how i know! lol

[THEPAINTER1960]

Demerol seems to be alot stronger than morphine for me. I don't like demerol though, but taking 6-7, 50mg Demerol's would knock me unconcious and have me choking on my own tongue. And that much morphine wouldnt do much. I remember once I had a huge bottle of demerol 50's and I brought them on a church camping trip lol. I got fucked up every night and snuck away and smoked cigarettes under the stars. And no one was the wiser. lol. Oh good memories. I tried to sniff some demerol when i was up in algonquin park on that camping trip and it burnt like a motherfucker. Don't ever sniff demerol it's awful! it's like sniffing pennicillin it's evil. And don't ask me how i know! lol
yes i can attest to that sniffing demerol is awfull. But i can never forget these pills we used to obtain when we could;nt get anything else. they were called talwin and one day i chewed one up. I almost died. What an awful taste. I
wil never forget that taste. But i dont know man i used to get 60 of the 50millagram demerol and i would take 5 to 10 orally and not feel anything that great to write home about. Yet if they were taken i.v. so-so. Different people different effects.

[psychotiKK]

Now I know what I'll say next time I need some good pain relief at the ER, "Morphine doesn't work on me for some reason Doc" lol. But seriously, that's a phenomenon I've heard of before, not reacting to the morphine that is. Pretty uncommon I guess but at least most Doctors recognize it like GMorris said. The good thing is that people who endure this problem will most likely be getting some much better I.V. shit though!

Wait.. what? What's better then IV morphine? IV hydromorphone? IV Fentanyl. I wouldn't know, I've only IVed tar H, but I have an idea of what might be better then the other. Morphine given IV is supposed to feel like H, but still not as great. I hear hydromorphone is extremely euphoric, but I know jack shit about it. Hydro = hydrocodone morphone = morphine I know it's not a straight up cross of morphine and hydrocodone, but I'm guessing it would be like vicodin except much more potent, more euphoric, and can be used IV. I thought oxymorphone would be the same way too. If I'm wrong please correct me because I have no idea whats true. Where did the morphone come from?

[insaneike]

Yes, big time.

I'm also on clonazepam too. 1-3mg daily depending from day to day. I get 60, 1mg a month now. I was on 3mg a day till i got on narcotics.

I ahve a slipped disc, and i also have to have rods put in my back. My surgery is o the 2nf of next month.

later

[TicTacSuicide]

I usually don't take ms contin because it doesn't get me high, but yes, it does kill the pain. If your looking to get high off of it, try something else. But by your condition it sounds like you just want something to kill the pain and ms contin should do.

[shaunclo]

Wait.. what? What's better then IV morphine? IV hydromorphone? IV Fentanyl. I wouldn't know, I've only IVed tar H, but I have an idea of what might be better then the other. Morphine given IV is supposed to feel like H, but still not as great. I hear hydromorphone is extremely euphoric, but I know jack shit about it. Hydro = hydrocodone morphone = morphine I know it's not a straight up cross of morphine and hydrocodone, but I'm guessing it would be like vicodin except much more potent, more euphoric, and can be used IV. I thought oxymorphone would be the same way too. If I'm wrong please correct me because I have no idea whats true. Where did the morphone come from?

Hydromorphone = dilaudid

Morphine given IV isnt anything like H, it is much different. Morphine gives you a pins and needles affect, while H is a much more euphoric (in my opinion)

Hydrocodone is much different than hydromorphone.

[reddragon3668]

Yes, big time.

I'm also on clonazepam too. 1-3mg daily depending from day to day. I get 60, 1mg a month now. I was on 3mg a day till i got on narcotics.

I ahve a slipped disc, and i also have to have rods put in my back. My surgery is o the 2nf of next month.

later
Looks like your surgery is coming up soon. Still set for the 2nd of May? I had that same surgery done (except on 2 disc) six years ago. It really was a success. I think I would still be ok today if I would have listened to my neurosurgen when he told me not to return to the plumbing trade. Unfortunately, at the time, I had five children and could not see doing anything else that would compensate me enough to take care of my family. Course, six years later, three additional dependents (one more on the way, Aug 12th), I can't work at all due to that decision. Live and learn, I guess.

Did they give you an option to have the surgery done without rods? I am asking because it seems that it is possible, and it used to be done all the time without rods, but I was never offered that option. Your recovery time is longer, having to lay basically immobile for six months or so, while the fusion heals. But, the rods are a foreign substance in your body and it creates allot more scar tissue and stuff. Allot of my residual problems, six years later, is related to those rods being in there, or so I am told.

I was just wondering. Hope all goes well with your surgery! That morphine pump will be nice.... ask them to turn off the safety so you can have moocho fun! :D

[exitwound]

sounds like maybe I should put demerol higher on my list of potential supplemental pain management options! normally based on my knowledge (and virtually no first-hand experience, certainly not since I've had chronic pain) of opiates i would be hesitant to ask someone offering me the chance to buy some pills from them, for demerol.....but maybe i should reconsider that stance!

after all, if it were to work better than morphine then that's exactly what i'm looking for....

[HeidiW]

I definately enjoy dilaudid (hydromorphone) better than morphine. Demerol is better than morphine, in my opinion. I can't remember which one is more euphoric, I think they're about the same for me.

[vanilla_mlkshake2007]

I have heard the same exact thing. Morphine would not work but 50 or 75mgs Demerol would do wonders.



I see almost everyone on this thread thinks hydromorphone(dilaudis) are stronger. Now I would take the morphine to Iv anyday,but that being said for some reason the hydromorphone is much easier to shoot,but then I have to inject of the 4 mgs' at once to equal about 60 milligrams of morphine .I just have a very hard time shooting anything but eating it is such a waste,so everyone is different.

[KhaosPerformer]

I've used oc to treat my anxiety for years. I'm loosing my mind now that I can't use anymore. As for pain, nothing beats oxy in my opinion.

Peace
-K

[AGV10]

I,m going to go back to ARKOS's thread opener: Klonidin and Morphine - what should you do?

You understand why the Klonidin is been given to you - yes(?). It is as you correctly note to offset panic/tension. It is also commonly used with Morphine to off-set "twitchy leg" syndrome and counter the effects of increased histamine release - histamine release is a nuisance in long term high dosage Morphine use as it messes up your normal sleep.

Any suspicion expressed by a doc that you are an abuser on the basis that you have not achieved pain relief from 3mg Mo IV is not right - unless you wiegh 30kg's or less. An accepted IV dose for MO IV - as a baseline in non-tolerent patients, is 0.1mg/kg (or thereabouts) e.g. 50kg body mass = 5mg MO, or 90kg body mass = 9mg. That is generally accepted as a baseline in non-opiate tolerent patients. If that ain't enough, then hospital doc's are usualy quite comfortable to increase that after 15/20min by 5mg-10mg per shot, up to a total of around 30mg - at which point most will then switch over to Diamorphine or simlilar ( up to a max of 5mg - 10mg in 2,5mg shots).

If you are not-tolerant the above will blow your mind - and if you are tolerent, then their should be a long established and verifiable record of that - in which case, there is no reason why even the above doeses cannot/should not be increased - (assuming that you have verifiable record of legitimate medical usage). In fact, for an opiate tolerent patient, the above dosages are nothing really - at the extreme (and I emphasise "extreme"), there are documented cases of 20 000 - 30 000mg per/day IV usage in some cancer treament cases (nope that is not a typo error - I did mean 20 000 - 30 000mg IV p/day).

So whats my point?
It's this: you get 2 types of doc's - those who accept opiates and the role they play in anagesia, and those that are just "anti-opiod use" - period - and assuming you have been telling the truth regards your injury/pain (and this is not at all to suggest you have not been), then it sounds like you came up against one of the latter - in which case I would suggest you move on and find another doc.

We have a problem in the USA (and UK): while the use of opiates has increased exponentialy over the last 10 years or so, so to has the abuse of these drugs. However, as true as that is (and you can bet it's a true statement - opiate addiction rates have gone through the roof)), my personal opinion is that the pendulum has swung to far over to the "anti-use" side of the argument, with the consequence that many well deserving patients suffer needlessly.

So what would I do? Firstly move on to another doc. But secondly, I personally would not be pushing for a stronger opiate (e.g. diamorphine, morphine hydrochlorie, fentynl ect ....) .... not yet at least. Rather, I would think a far better approach would be more morphine sulphate.

Why? because as you have said you are also taking Klonidine - and the side affects of increased MO useage (i.e. sleep pattern disturbance, panic/tension ect ....) with Klodine, are far easier to control when increasing the same optiate type, than they are when changing from one opitate to another - and this is not strrictly speaking to mean always to a stronger optiate class. It can happen when moving to equivilant strengths of different types of opiates - because the binding sites and metabolites of morphine and diamorphine, or fentanyl are not iall dientical. there differances, and those differances can have a siginifcant impact side - effect wise (for good and bad).

Stick with MO for as long as you can - then move on, or change for a few months - then perhaps come back to MO. This approach works well in a lot of cases.

Lastly - I am not a medic (so there may be some who will dispute what I have said above). The above is based on personal experiance and on comments that doctors have made to me over the years that I have used MO (morphine sulphate). How much can I take? - orally up to around 600-700mg daily. IV, up to around 250mg daily (4 x 60mg every 6 hrs). That for me is absolute max!! - I can get by perfectly fine on 300 - 400mg p/day orally).

I have no experiance with pure Heroin - just a one time use of Diamorphine (10mg) - and that was after 60mg of IV MO. The extra effect was zero.

PS - there is a drug called Morphidex - ask your doc about it (it is a mix of MO and Klonidine - specifically to deal with the d=side affects you have described).

Take care - wish you all the best.

[l4l5]

morphine will not work on 12% of caucasian ppl, and also most asian people as they are deficent in a chromosone that converts

[AGV10]

What - you not serious are you???????????? No, I'm not challenging your statement - just the first time I've heard of that.

When you say it doesn't work does this mean it has no analgesic effect, or it has no euphoric effect, or it doesn't effect resperiation rate - or a combination of any of the above?

Does this also mean those 12% cannot overdose on MO, and how does it effect/relate to usage of any other of comonly used the morphine based analgesics (i.e. such as Diamorphine, Codeine and similar)??

.... learn something new every day

[Hammilton]

That 12% is the percentage of people who can't convert codeine into morphine. Morphine doesn't get converted into anything to be active- it's just morphine.

Everyone has opioid receptors that'll fit morphine. However some people are allergic to morphine- not intolerant of the opiate agonism, but presumably much more prone to the histamine release. I don't know the exact reason they're allergic too it. Most allergies, food anyway, are caused by the inability of the body to break down specific proteins. There's a formula used by research allergists to determine which proteins people are likely to be allergic to. Monsanto has a lot of experience here- a gene they spliced into corn that was responsible for producing a protein that was supposed to prevent some bugs from eating the plant, but not have an effect in humans turned out to have a fairly major effect in some humans. I forget how the formula goes, but it's something about the length of time for the protein to be broken down in the stomach (or is it by liver enzymes? I forget) times this or divided by that converts to the likelihood that humans will be allergic to it.


Oh, and as far as the question/comment about "hydro= hydrocodone and morphone = morphine"= you're way off, but that's okay. Hydro refers to a hydroxy group, and morphone refers to a morphinone 'group'. Morphinone is actually an active opioid, but it's apparently not very active. A morphinone group is not equal to morphine, however, either in terms of potency or subject effects. It's a different molecule, but there isn't a major difference. It's like the difference between cathine and cathinone. I believe morphinone is the ketone variant of morphine. hydrocodone, the proper chemical term is dihydrocodeinone, and I believe that hydromorphone is actually dihydromorphinone but might be simply hydromorphinone. I'm not sure.

It's the same for oxycodone to oxymorphone, really it's oxycodeinone and oxymorphinone.

So it's really not at all like a chemical that combines morphine and hydrocodone. The chemicals are really quite different. It doesn't even feel very similar to a combination of the two of them.