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View Full Version : So, I found buprenorphine in my fridge last week.



cactus31
03-10-2008, 10:52 PM
....as it turns out, it's for the cat. My daughter's cat, a kitten, really, who just returned from the vet via my mother......she dropped off the cat (in a cat carrier) at my house, and when I got home I found instructions for care of said cat on my counter.

So I look in the fridge at this brown paper bag with 3 (5ml) syringes filled to the '2' mark. And the sticker on each one said "buprenorphine, yada, yada". With instructions to give orally!

Weird that they'd give it to a cat (a five-pounder at that) for pain relief, huh?

EDIT: Forgot to add that the damn cat was declawed so she can't shred my couch no mo.

jonny-5
03-10-2008, 11:14 PM
really?? how many mg per ml? i would think that .000005 mg would knock an opiate naive cat on its ass....

justonefix
03-11-2008, 12:59 AM
yeah, what happened to the cat after the dose>???

candyshop
03-11-2008, 01:04 AM
yeah, what happened to the cat after the dose>???
it needs 2x as much dope to break through,it's really bored and it can't poop.

jonny-5
03-11-2008, 01:06 AM
it needs 2x as much dope to break through,it's really bored and it can't poop.

it wont let me give you more points yet, but if any comment deserves props its THAT one. ahjajajajaj

effervescingelephant
03-11-2008, 01:37 AM
My cat had the same stuff prescribed when he got declawed. Turns out, humans can't take it orally because it is absorbed way too quickly by the body to actually be metabolized. Bummer :(

jopiated
03-11-2008, 09:19 AM
Inject it then!

Chicago
03-11-2008, 09:41 AM
OT, But did you no that LSD will no affect cats as it does humans as same as catnip will not effect humans as it does for cats.

just the good 'ol 411.:)

edhorfin
03-11-2008, 09:46 AM
I got a very sick dog and was trying to find out how much dope they can handle. He's on fent patches, 50 mcg every 3 days. (when he's in pain and I can afford them at 110. bux a patch.) Anyway, animals can tolerate a LOT more dope than humans. The LD50 ( dose that kills half the time,or something like that) on fentanyl for dogs is 14mg/kg. Not Micrograms, but Milligrams!!!! So, my dog weighs about 20kg. He can take 280 MILLIGRAMS of fent, and die half the time. Or only once, I guess.

My dog had eaten a couple of whole patches and didn't even go down. Just got a little fucked up, no laying down and sleeping, nothing!

He was hurting and I was trying to figure if I rubbed the inside of a dried patch on his gums whether or not it would help or not. Turns out, it wouldnt do jackshit to help him.

So, the kitty can probably take a lot of bupe without going legs up.

Never challenge a dog or cat to a dope shooting contest. Of course, one Advil can kill them, though...

EleusisII
04-23-2008, 12:23 PM
Wait, wait, wait...
Does this mean, that one could in theory visit an animal shelter, find the goddamn oldest most miserable dog they have, adobt it, go to a vet and split the goodies?!?

This puts a whole new spin on junkie-craftiness!

jdub
04-23-2008, 12:42 PM
Wait, wait, wait...
Does this mean, that one could in theory visit an animal shelter, find the goddamn oldest most miserable dog they have, adobt it, go to a vet and split the goodies?!?

This puts a whole new spin on junkie-craftiness!

Wow. Thats pretty damn ingenius.

jonny-5
04-23-2008, 01:10 PM
im on my way to the pound right now.

EleusisII
04-23-2008, 01:14 PM
Get a really old dog, that'll pass away in a matter of months...

That way, you might be able to hit up your own doc for some benzo's when it kicks the bucket!

jonny-5
04-23-2008, 01:19 PM
you are a crafty one, my friend!

JonnyM
04-23-2008, 01:34 PM
You know your a junkie when...


:]

EleusisII
04-23-2008, 02:04 PM
you are a crafty one, my friend!


Thank you good sir! But I prefer: Junkie-suave!

cactus31
04-23-2008, 02:07 PM
LOL.

Kitty was in a daze for about 2 days after the 'surgery', now as fucking weird as ever again.

grant123
04-23-2008, 08:26 PM
so.. did you try any?

EleusisII
04-23-2008, 08:54 PM
^^^^
If you mean me, yup...

Just got back from the pound today, with a twelve year old labrador, two German Shepards, 9 and 10, that seem to have arthritis or something, they're walking r e a l l y slow, and a charming tabby, who has a weird form of cat cancer, and about three months to live! And to top it off, a really cute girl that worked there gave me her phonenumber. Must have been that comment I made: "I just want to let them live out the rest of their days, in a good home you know..."

Off to the vet first thing tomorrow morning! Think I'll start out gently with asking for some hydrocodone pills because of "the kennel cough", before I start asking about patches.

Tata!

jdub
04-23-2008, 11:33 PM
^^^ Dude that is awesome. Win-win if you ask me. The one draw-back is the big vet/ pharm bills.

eerased
04-24-2008, 12:22 AM
this is to funny..
The price cant be much more than copping on the street pharms. You'd think those suminabiches where layered in gold sometimes.

JonnyM
04-24-2008, 12:28 AM
Eleusis please let us know the results of your experiment.

I am very interested in how it goes :]

jdub
04-24-2008, 01:26 PM
We should form an alliance with some pet-adoption web site. Like I said: win-win!

I am really curious as to the results of your experiment.

jonny-5
04-24-2008, 01:39 PM
me too. this is the beginning of a new age my friends.

Shotalotofdopeamus
04-24-2008, 03:39 PM
it needs 2x as much dope to break through,it's really bored and it can't poop.

for a second I thought you were talking about us..........

effervescingelephant
05-03-2008, 11:13 PM
It seems pretty low to me to use an animal for some dope.

Indy
05-04-2008, 04:59 AM
edit: note that i have NEVER taken any drugs from an animal before. i don't know if i would have if i had the chance, but i've never had the chance.


It seems pretty low to me to use an animal for some dope.

I don't think it's as bad as people make it out to be. I mean it might be kinda mean, but i believe that where we stand as humans, we have more rights than animals, and our life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness are more important than that of a pet.

Now don't get me wrong i'm against animal cruelty and all that, and while i don't think it's RIGHT to take painkillers from an animal who needs it, it's not NEARLY as bad as other things that people hardly even see as "bad". For instance, a lot of people talk about taking pills from people's medicine cabinets like it's nothing, but then will CRUCIFY someone for doing the same to an animal. Honestly, I think stealing opiates from people is far worse than stealing from a dog. Again, I personally believe people should care much more about humans than animals.

I guess what i'm saying is that i think it would be morally ambiguous to steal painkillers from a dog, when you're facing withdrawals. And even if it is wrong, I'm willing to bet that VERY few junkies would be able to resist taking bupe/hydro/morphine etc. from a dog if they were in or facing withdrawal and there was no other options.

- here's a scenario: you haven't dosed for say, 40 hours and you won't be able to get ANYTHING for a week no matter what: you're kicking pretty damn bad (depending on your drug of choice) and for the next day or two it's only going to get worse.....MUCH worse. Remember you won't be able to get ANYTHING for a whole week from now. But you then remember that you have medicine you've been giving to your dog, fentanyl patches. Can you honestly say you would go through withdrawal for a week + 40 hours with fentanyl patches in your fridge? I know i would not come close.

It's not to say i don't feel bad for the dogs, and i honestly would TRY to make it so that i wouldn't need to take narco's from my dog (if i had one, i'm a cat guy). I just don't like that some people (nothing in this post is targeted at anyone in the topic, nobody has even posted anything that i'm arguing against other than the post i quoted, and i perfectly understand how he feels about it) in other topics to some extent, and on other FORUMS to a much greater extent, have a double standard when it comes to taking drugs from people, and taking them from an animal.

And one last thing about that: stealing someone else's prescription is definitely wrong, but when you talk about "stealing" your pet's prescription, think of this: who took it to the vet, took care of the animal, and who PAID for it? After all that, are you really 'stealing' anything?

Inspektahdek
05-04-2008, 06:13 AM
I could be losing it but I thought I saw bupe eyedrops for a cat at a friends house in the fridge as well. It was bupe mixed with something else I think some sort of mild antibiotic combo in the eye drops but what a strange ROA? Either that or they were force squirted into the mouth, not quite sure but the bupe im pretty sure about. I'll have to do some googling now.

..

Inspektahdek
05-04-2008, 06:16 AM
yepp, it was a combo and was taken the drops by mouth:




The Veterinary Record, Vol 152, Issue 22, 675-678
Copyright © 2003 by British Veterinary Association

Systemic uptake of buprenorphine by cats after oral mucosal administration

S. A. Robertson BVMS, DACVA, DECVA, PhD, MRCVS1, P. M. Taylor MA, PhD, DVA, MRCVS2, and J. W. Sear MA, MB, BS, PhD, FFARCS, FANZCA3 1 Department of Large Animal Clinical Sciences, University of Florida, PO Box 100136, Gainsville, Florida, 32610, USA
2 Department of Clinical Veterinary Medicine, University of Cambridge, Madingley Road, Cambridge CB3 0ES
3 Nuffield Department of Anaesthetics, University of Oxford, Radcliffe Infirmary, Woodstock Road, Oxford OX2 6HE


The plasma concentration of buprenorphine was measured by radioimmunoassay in six female cats after the administration of 0·01 mg/kg (0·033 ml/kg) buprenorphine hydrochloride solution into the side of the cat's mouth. Blood samples were taken through a preplaced jugular catheter before and one, two, four, six, 10, 15, 30, 45 and 60 minutes, and two, four, six, 12 and 24 hours after the dose was administered. The buprenorphine was accepted well by all the cats and did not cause salivation or vomiting. Its median peak plasma concentration was 7·5 ng/ml and was reached after 15 minutes. The pharmacokinetic data were similar to the pharmacokinetic data obtained after the intramuscular and intravenous administration of buprenorphine to cats from the same colony, suggesting that the mucosal route of administration should be as effective as intravenous and intramuscular injections. In addition, the pH of the oral cavity of 26 cats was measured with pH paper, and 100 cat owners were asked their preferred method of administering drugs to cats. The pH of the cats' mouths was between 8 and 9, and the technique preferred by the cat owners was the use of drops placed in the mouth.

Indy
05-04-2008, 06:31 AM
Also, you'd be surprised how high the dose is for animals that have much less weight than we do. You see, the metabolism of just about EVERY other mammal is such as that they need more drug per unit of body mass than humans when it comes to narcotics. Like the dose of morphine orally for a human might be say....oh....1 mg/kg (this isn't even an ESTIMATE, this is just to use as an example, i have no idea if this is anywhere near the dose for morphine, but a dog would need more, like maybe 1.5 mg/kg.

That's why a lot of veterinary painkillers just use the same formulations, cause when you take into account the fact that animals need more mg/kg than we do, the difference in required dose is pretty small, and then factor into account that a human taking a dose that's high enough to get high is COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE to the medical field. But a dog, who cares?

But yeah, with some animals the difference in sensitivity to a drug can be quite large, but i'm pretty sure humans are about the most sensitive mammals to narcotics by weight. Lucky us!

One of our more knowledgeable veterinarian opiophiles should expand on this. Oh, and if i'm wrong about this correct me, but i know for a fact that rabbits need more mg/kg of narcotics than humans. Oh and different drugs affect different species differently due mostly to cytochrome level variances. Once again, we need a knowledgoveteranariopiophile in here to help us out.

Off-topic: i'm actually interested in the bioavailabililty, rate of absorption, and overall research on ophthalmic or ocular (not really sure which word to use) administration of drugs.

Wretched and Wicked
05-04-2008, 09:09 PM
This is the FUNNIEST thread!!!!

effervescingelephant
05-07-2008, 10:03 AM
I don't mean that STEALING an animal's pain killers is wrong, but getting a dog for the express purpose of getting some is low. It's like welfare moms having an extra kid to get more money. They don't actually care about the kid, they just want the goodies.

More Feen
05-07-2008, 10:14 AM
That is really strange--dosage-wise.

Injected, pure bupe is effective in the 300 ug (microgram) dose, or 0.30 mg (roughly equivalent to 10 mg morphine). For average adult, roughly 300-900 ug would be adequate for pain control.

The subutex, or sublingual doses of bupe for opiate withdrawal needs a much higher concentration due to poor absorption, etc.... I think those doses are something like 10 - 20 mg!

So probably the vet thinks that the kitten will receive enough pain relief from what little bupe would be absorbed through its mucosa.

Still, it doesn't make much sense without an injection, or a higher concentration.

MF

PS Just read "INSPEKTAHDEK's" info about the mucosal absorption in cats--now it seems to make sense: a low dose of bupe that would be effective if given IM, would be equally effective give "sub-ligually." Pity the mucosal absorbtion rate isn't the same for humans!