My sister called me an "addict sort of"

[satori]

I was in the kitchen when my sister and her b/f were talking. He said his friend had a lot of hydrocodone for sale. I had said i took perc's for a while when i hurt my back. Well i didnt even ask to buy them because i didnt want to go through my sisters b/f because it could be weird. WEll she said i was addicted a little. I thought it was a strange thing to just say for no reason but i actualy find myself disagreeing with it "a little". I take pain meds and have even had wd affects but i have always taken under the perscribed dose and never more often then every 3 hours. The highest dose i have taken is 15mg of hydrocodone. I also havent taken anything in days (i go off of it every 3-6 months except the last couple years i have had a lot of problems). My question is, if your "addicted" dont you want to keep taking it? I didnt have any mental problem with going off just physical and i actualy feel pretty good. The past 2 months i had taken codeine but no more then 40mg two times a day. Is this a "problem"? I hadnt really thought it was but after she said that i went :rolleyes: :mad: :( . ANy input please :).

I personaly dont feel im addicted, i stopped at a moments notice and i even have a lot of pods left but didnt use them. I KNOW Ihave been addicted or physicaly dependant twice but does that extend to all use or just those times?

[Qwertymkonji]

I believe it's mostly a physical thing if you've got a good strong state of mind and aren't easily affected mentally by drugs. I don't call that being a junkie, but my girlfriend would disagree. I just think some people don't understand or aren't in your shoes so they can't possibly understand.

qwerty

[exitwound]

Exactly -- this is about your sister's ignorance. Not you.

[satori]

Thanks, that is how i had thought as well. Thank you!!

[devilsdrug]

say no disrep intended but your sis spotted a thing goin on most wouldnt i see you as on the edge , what we use to call chippin your sis is more right on than you think , it just depends on what level of truth you want to be on , not everybody gets the same level with me

[karmacoma]

whatever... i wouldn't say satori's an addict. but the only one who can really tell us is satori. i don't think it's altogether a matter of how much you take. it's what state the rest of your life is in. the biggest indicator of wheter or not you're hooked is that the thing you think about most often? now i've read some of satori's other posts and they seem to indicate a rather level-headed person. and the fact that you take seriously what your sister says shows that you're pretty self aware. the usual reaction to a junkie to a comment like that would be anger and maybe the textbook, "stay out of my business," or something to that affect. but that's just my opinion.

[doctor diesel]

I think at very worst you may be dependent on opiates, but you sure as hell don't sound addicted.

Doc Diesel

[malefiacrum]

I agree with DevilsDrug, it's all about how open you are to your own situation. It's hard to take a step back and look at yourself impartially... Also; I think junkie or addict is a state of mind and/or ritual a person has...not knowing you personally, can't tell if your sis was right...

[JimmyJoe]

say no disrep intended but your sis spotted a thing goin on most wouldnt i see you as on the edge , what we use to call chippin your sis is more right on than you think , it just depends on what level of truth you want to be on , not everybody gets the same level with me


I totally disagree. I don't see how you can call someone an addict or know their mind without even knowing them. And, opiates are not a Devil's drug to everyone and they're not even addictive for every one. Whether she is addicted or not would depend on her reasons for taking the drug. If a person takes it chronically for back pain or some other pain that doesn't make them an addict. Nobody gets called an addict because they drink a couple of beers every day. Give me a fucking break. Christianity does not treat alcohol as a devil drug and so people realize it can be used with moderation. Thus, many if not most never become addicted. With opiates, the whole mindset is the opposite. People go into it, being aware of its addictiveness and their brain starts on that program, ensuring that they become addicted. The whole addiction thing is overblown and has a lot less to do with the drug than with the person's habits and thinking processes. A quick example: I know guys that can't switch to nicotine gum even though its got the same drug in it, because they say that it just isn't the same. They like the ritual of smoking and one of them told me he had to change his behavior before he could quit. He quit going to bars for example and started taking walks after meals (which is when he wanted to smoke most) and the urges did disappear and he switched to the gum and then quit. I think it is highly arrogant and obnoxious to call someone an addict without even knowing them. The whole thing with opiates is that people go into it thinking that it is all the fault of the drug and addiction is a complicated process that has more to do with the person and their behavior than the drug. The physical addiction and withdrawals ain't much fun, but changing one's psychological habits is the hard part and has very little to do with the drug itself since compulsive gamblers and alcoholics exhibit similar behavior to opiate addicts.

This mentality of "devil's drug" is a western thing because the majority religion (christianity) here teaches that things are either all bad or good. It's either sin or its not. This leads to compulsive and abnormal behavior and dwelling on feelings of guilt. The oriental philosophies that teach life is a balance and that there are grey areas is much healthier for the mind. If a person tells himself every day that narcotics are addictive and they have no power over it, they've already created a defeatist mindset and have programmed their brain for failure. If an addict realizes that their behavior and daily rituals have a lot to do with it and that they have power over it, then they have gone a long way to defeating the problem. And I say this, because I know addicts that have cured themselves this way. People say they are addicted to the "feeling" the drug gives, but that can't quite be right because once you're heavily addicted the "feeling" starts to wear off and it has become a ritual or pattern of behavior which emphasizes drug-seeking behavior.

I see opiates as a way to teach your brain what the pleasant state is like -- kind of a religious experience. But, if the drug is used too much the feeling disappears because the person is out of balance. You can train your brain to create a similar state of pleasure with the body's own endorphins through training. We have alot more control over our brains and thinking than we give ourselves credit for. But in order to control it, you must first realize that you have that power and unfortunately, many addicts never get to that stage, but I know some that have and no longer use drugs in an unhealthy way. The question is not whether I am an addict or not. The question is whether the drug use no longer has benefits and has started to cause problems in my life. If the answer is yes, I would either slow down or quit by whichever method works for you. But, I can't say that you're an addict and I don't think others can either. That is something you have to look at for yourself.

[ontario_opiophile]

I wonder how bad withdrawal would be if no one knew about the typical withdrawal symptoms. This has nothing to do with the post so meh. I wonder If i would think withdrawal is so horrible if I hadn't seen it in movies. Oh well I never go through withdrawal and I hope I won't. About your post hmm.....you dont seem like an addict to me. Maybe you kinda are. You are on opiophile.com. lol. If you weren't kinda semi-addicted you owuldnt be looking for drug info all the time. My mom takes painkillers for pain and shows no interest in them whatsoever. She just takes the pills when she's told. She doesnt try to get high or anything it's weird. She can barely reember the name of half of them. Being an addict isnt always a bad thing. Theres different degrees of addiction. I think if your just ttaking that much you'll be okay. It's when you start going up and injeecting your pills and sleeping in dumpsters and outside of churches that it becomes a problem. Just use in moderation. Willpower is all it takes. If you start taking like 300mg of hydrocodone in a day then your probably an addict but with the amounts you take I dunno. Just be careful.

[shaunclo]

I totally disagree. I don't see how you can call someone an addict or know their mind without even knowing them. And, opiates are not a Devil's drug to everyone and they're not even addictive for every one. Whether she is addicted or not would depend on her reasons for taking the drug. If a person takes it chronically for back pain or some other pain that doesn't make them an addict. Nobody gets called an addict because they drink a couple of beers every day. Give me a fucking break. Christianity does not treat alcohol as a devil drug and so people realize it can be used with moderation. Thus, many if not most never become addicted. With opiates, the whole mindset is the opposite. People go into it, being aware of its addictiveness and their brain starts on that program, ensuring that they become addicted. The whole addiction thing is overblown and has a lot less to do with the drug than with the person's habits and thinking processes. A quick example: I know guys that can't switch to nicotine gum even though its got the same drug in it, because they say that it just isn't the same. They like the ritual of smoking and one of them told me he had to change his behavior before he could quit. He quit going to bars for example and started taking walks after meals (which is when he wanted to smoke most) and the urges did disappear and he switched to the gum and then quit. I think it is highly arrogant and obnoxious to call someone an addict without even knowing them. The whole thing with opiates is that people go into it thinking that it is all the fault of the drug and addiction is a complicated process that has more to do with the person and their behavior than the drug. The physical addiction and withdrawals ain't much fun, but changing one's psychological habits is the hard part and has very little to do with the drug itself since compulsive gamblers and alcoholics exhibit similar behavior to opiate addicts.

This mentality of "devil's drug" is a western thing because the majority religion (christianity) here teaches that things are either all bad or good. It's either sin or its not. This leads to compulsive and abnormal behavior and dwelling on feelings of guilt. The oriental philosophies that teach life is a balance and that there are grey areas is much healthier for the mind. If a person tells himself every day that narcotics are addictive and they have no power over it, they've already created a defeatist mindset and have programmed their brain for failure. If an addict realizes that their behavior and daily rituals have a lot to do with it and that they have power over it, then they have gone a long way to defeating the problem. And I say this, because I know addicts that have cured themselves this way. People say they are addicted to the "feeling" the drug gives, but that can't quite be right because once you're heavily addicted the "feeling" starts to wear off and it has become a ritual or pattern of behavior which emphasizes drug-seeking behavior.

I see opiates as a way to teach your brain what the pleasant state is like -- kind of a religious experience. But, if the drug is used too much the feeling disappears because the person is out of balance. You can train your brain to create a similar state of pleasure with the body's own endorphins through training. We have alot more control over our brains and thinking than we give ourselves credit for. But in order to control it, you must first realize that you have that power and unfortunately, many addicts never get to that stage, but I know some that have and no longer use drugs in an unhealthy way. The question is not whether I am an addict or not. The question is whether the drug use no longer has benefits and has started to cause problems in my life. If the answer is yes, I would either slow down or quit by whichever method works for you. But, I can't say that you're an addict and I don't think others can either. That is something you have to look at for yourself.

I thought you were not going to post anymore???

[satori]

say no disrep intended but your sis spotted a thing goin on most wouldnt i see you as on the edge , what we use to call chippin your sis is more right on than you think , it just depends on what level of truth you want to be on , not everybody gets the same level with me

I have very closely examend how i feel, its why i take breaks from opiates on a regular basis unless my back is really bad (slipped disc). Me and my sister have never been close, i hadnt spoken with her for years up untill rcently. SO you really have no idea what your talking about. And as far was what level you are on... Well you have NO IDEA what level others are on. You dont even know my name, where i live or who i am so you can in no way guess as to whats going on. And so you know i asked her to define an addict, its anybody who uses any form of opiate ... AT ALL for whatever reason.

[shaunclo]

I always thought about that, how much of the w/d's are mental and how much of them were just beaten in there with years of, "drugs are bad." Well, the first time I w/d'd, I went to work with the mentality that I was going to be fine. It took 2 days to get really bad (this was after my 1st 3 month run) the second day at work, I thought all I had was the flu until, all of a sudden I just started breaking dwon crying for no fucking reason. It still didnt even hit me till I got home and wondered what was wrong. So w/d's are not all mental, but I do believe you can make them worse with the anxiety and shit.

If you can walk yourself through them, they become easier, but that is easier said than done.

[satori]

I wonder how bad withdrawal would be if no one knew about the typical withdrawal symptoms. This has nothing to do with the post so meh. I wonder If i would think withdrawal is so horrible if I hadn't seen it in movies. Oh well I never go through withdrawal and I hope I won't. About your post hmm.....you dont seem like an addict to me. Maybe you kinda are. You are on opiophile.com. lol. If you weren't kinda semi-addicted you owuldnt be looking for drug info all the time. My mom takes painkillers for pain and shows no interest in them whatsoever. She just takes the pills when she's told. She doesnt try to get high or anything it's weird. She can barely reember the name of half of them. Being an addict isnt always a bad thing. Theres different degrees of addiction. I think if your just ttaking that much you'll be okay. It's when you start going up and injeecting your pills and sleeping in dumpsters and outside of churches that it becomes a problem. Just use in moderation. Willpower is all it takes. If you start taking like 300mg of hydrocodone in a day then your probably an addict but with the amounts you take I dunno. Just be careful.



300mg has always lasted me about a month, i have never taken more then 30mg in a day in my life. Wheneer my tollerance gets to the point where 45mg of codeine does not work for back i go off. I had been on a lot the past year because i had gotten hurt fairly bad, plus a strange car accident. I am not dilluted enough to hide how i feel, i have only been in denial once in my life and that was when i had gotten hurt and didnt want to accept it. If anything i try to be as honest with myself as possible, because i know i cant lie to myself, thats a silly concept.

[shaunclo]

Satori, you kinda opened up a can o' worms here, you first asked people for their honest opinion, than you get upset because some people on here dont bullshit and give it like it is. You will always have people who are going to be like, "ohhhhh its o.k., your not an addict." Then your going to have the people who are going to be brutally honest to the best of their knowledge.

If your not sure that your an addict, than why do you care what people have to say about you that you dont even know?? First off, this is a Opiates site where people come to (for the most part) get knowledge on the best ways to get the most out of their D.O.C. If you seriously have not gone over 45mg of codiene in 1 day, well than your probably not a full blown doper yet, but never say never, before you know it, youll be doing stuff that you would never have thought you would end up doing. You might also want to ask yourself, what are you doing at this site in the first place. Its not like we dont want you here, but this isnt a kiddie site where people come and say, Oh wait, this isnt what I was looking for. Its pretty obvious what kind of people register here. I would be amazed if someone who visits this site ISNT an addict. (at one point in his/her life)

[JimmyJoe]

I thought you were not going to post anymore???

Oh hell, I just couldn't resist. I thought it needed to be said. I think implying someone is an addict without knowing them is wrong. After all, we don't know the sister or her motives. And, I don't like the word addict because it changes the focus from the person's behavior to the drug. The question isn-t how much you use it, the question should be whether the use of the drug has started to cause negative effects in the person-s life. If the answer is yes, maybe it-s time to slow down, get help or quit.

I think people are too prone to classify others or resort to name-calling based on their own experience without knowing the person they judge. And, I had another poster twist my words and claim I said "heroin was harmless" when I never said that. So that-s why I jumped in. I think some people have an agenda here and it seems to be the drug war agenda, ie calling others addicts and trying to shut up other opinions by using name-calling and all that. I said in another post that heroin wouldn't be AS dangerous if it were legal and then someone twisted that somehow into "heroin is harmless." That-s quite a leap since I said in the original post "heroin is not safe."

[shaunclo]

Oh hell, I just couldn't resist.

I knew you couldnt, glad to have you back;)

[JimmyJoe]

I knew you couldnt, glad to have you back;)

Thanks. I throw my little temper tantrums and write the longest posts known to man. And then after that, its all water under the bridge and I'm all smiles again.

[JimmyJoe]

I always thought about that, how much of the w/d's are mental and how much of them were just beaten in there with years of, "drugs are bad." Well, the first time I w/d'd, I went to work with the mentality that I was going to be fine. It took 2 days to get really bad (this was after my 1st 3 month run) the second day at work, I thought all I had was the flu until, all of a sudden I just started breaking dwon crying for no fucking reason. It still didnt even hit me till I got home and wondered what was wrong. So w/d's are not all mental, but I do believe you can make them worse with the anxiety and shit.

If you can walk yourself through them, they become easier, but that is easier said than done.

I hear you. There's no doubt there-s a physical aspect of withdrawals. The leg pain is especially bad and then you-re lying in bed and you can-t find a comfortable position and you end up staring at the ceiling all night. Yeah, the physical withdrawal is no fun. And, its unavoidable after your body has gotten to that point. The psychological aspects are a whole different matter though. I think there, the "drugs are bad" mentality really comes into play. Once the person starts asking himself if he is an addict they begin to dwell on that and by implication the drug and then its sort of like self-fulfilling prophecy. But the mind can be reprogrammed in that regard. I think too, the addict thing makes people feel like they failed if they quit for a while and then slip. They think they are back where they started. But, what they don-t realize is that they made progress because they successfully brought it under control for a time. That-s where I think the drug-s are bad thing really does damage. They see they have control again and then in a moment of weakness they start using again and then act like its all over -- that they screwed up and they-re bad. But, the positive side is that they were able to control it for a while and can do so again if they realize they-re going to have slip ups. I don-t think the drug has the power they give it -- I think its just like alcohol or other things and can be controlled and done in moderation especially after having seen both sides of it with friends and stuff.

[candy]

Please don't take this as any disrespect, but when you post on this site as you did regarding your sis calling you sort of an addict, be prepared for all and any type of responses to your post.
Everyone has an opinion and we have all been through different phases of opiate use here. Some for pain, some with addiction, some who gave it up.

And believe me, I am not starting trouble here at all, but in some of the responses, some were defensive. I don't think I need to quote anything. Just take the responses you feel are related to your specific deal and move on. No need to lash out at anyone who has an opinion on the matter of opiate use.

If you feel your not an addict, that's great! Some here have gone through real life changes due to the addiction of opiates and I don't think you would of posted if you weren't looking for some feedback of some sort.

I just wanted to speak my mind on this. And sure there are some who post who are not necessarily nice when they do or feel their opinion is the only one that matters. Just bypass those posts and take what you need!

Once again, I mean no one any disrespect nor am I looking to start any trouble, just pointing out something that bothers me!

[JimmyJoe]

Please don't take this as any disrespect, but when you post on this site as you did regarding your sis calling you sort of an addict, be prepared for all and any type of responses to your post.
Everyone has an opinion and we have all been through different phases of opiate use here. Some for pain, some with addiction, some who gave it up.

And believe me, I am not starting trouble here at all, but in some of the responses, some were defensive. I don't think I need to quote anything. Just take the responses you feel are related to your specific deal and move on. No need to lash out at anyone who has an opinion on the matter of opiate use.

If you feel your not an addict, that's great! Some here have gone through real life changes due to the addiction of opiates and I don't think you would of posted if you weren't looking for some feedback of some sort.

I just wanted to speak my mind on this. And sure there are some who post who are not necessarily nice when they do or feel their opinion is the only one that matters. Just bypass those posts and take what you need!

Once again, I mean no one any disrespect nor am I looking to start any trouble, just pointing out something that bothers me!

She did open herself up a bit, agreed. But some people here are too quick to judge and resort to name-calling. If someone is an addict and they can-t handle opiates, that-s fine, but they shouldn-t cast everybody else in that mold and insult people they don-t even know. There-s every reason to get defensive when somebody takes your post and twists it to say something that it didn-t mean. When Tarbaby twisted what I said in another post changing my argument from "h would be a safer if legal but still not completely safe" into "heroin is harmless" and then started the namecalling, devildrug jumped in there saying that Tarbaby was essentially correct in his tirade where he misquotes me. I was just trying to show the pattern of name-calling with some posters and making accusations against people they don-t know. I don't know why they are intent on demonizing opiates and characterizing everybody as an addict, but I think it is in bad taste and seems more like drug warrior propaganda than anything else. If they want to talk about their own experiences fine. But when they start name-calling and accusations against people they don-t know, that crosses the line.

I mean if the poster disagreed why not just say so instead of twisting what I said and calling me noob? He could have said that he thought heroin was safer illegal and that it is so powerful and evil that unlike alcohol and everything else, if you try it once you-re addicted. I don-t agree with that but I would have respected the viewpoint if he wanted to argue. But that-s not what he did. And, just because Satori talked about an incident with her sister doesn-t give other posters the right to qualify her as an addict without knowing her. She was right to defend herself. It seems some people think everyone that-s ever touched opiates or regularly uses them for whatever reason is automatically de facto an addict but the facts do not support that viewpoint. A quick example -- only 15% or so of the heroin users in Vietnam had trouble with it when they came back to the states. In other words, some people have problems and some don-t. But there is room for everyone here without the namecalling. She was just relating an incident that happened with her sister and any honest person would have to admit that they couldn-t say whether she was an addict or not without knowing more of the facts.

And, for what is worth, take it or leave it, I would also have to disagree with Devildrug-s statement that chipping is "on the edge" because I have personally known people that chipped for years without ever getting addicted. And, once again, I-m not saying people never go from chipper to addict. I-m just saying that people are making a number of assumptions that may or may not be true in a given case, mainly that there is no such thing as responsible opiate use -- a statement with which I wholeheartedly disagree. That-s exactly what happened to my favorite singer layne staley of alice in chains. anytime there was an interview it was drugs this and drugs that and it was no wonder he could never get drugs off of his brain -- they wouldn-t let him. they just assumed he was an addict and constantly reminded him of the fact making it hard for him to get away from dope if he-d wanted to.

[candy]

She did open herself up a bit, agreed. But some people here are too quick to judge and resort to name-calling. If someone is an addict and they can-t handle opiates, that-s fine, but they shouldn-t cast everybody else in that mold and insult people they don-t even know. There-s every reason to get defensive when somebody takes your post and twists it to say something that it didn-t mean. When Tarbaby twisted what I said in another post changing my argument from "h would be a safer if legal but still not completely safe" into "heroin is harmless" and then started the namecalling, devildrug jumped in there saying that Tarbaby was essentially correct in his tirade where he misquotes me. I was just trying to show the pattern of name-calling with some posters and making accusations against people they don-t know. I don't know why they are intent on demonizing opiates and characterizing everybody as an addict, but I think it is in bad taste and seems more like drug warrior propaganda than anything else. If they want to talk about their own experiences fine. But when they start name-calling and accusations against people they don-t know, that crosses the line.

I mean if the poster disagreed why not just say so instead of twisting what I said and calling me noob? He could have said that he thought heroin was safer illegal and that it is so powerful and evil that unlike alcohol and everything else, if you try it once you-re addicted. I don-t agree with that but I would have respected the viewpoint if he wanted to argue. But that-s not what he did. And, just because Satori talked about an incident with her sister doesn-t give other posters the right to qualify her as an addict without knowing her. She was right to defend herself. It seems some people think everyone that-s ever touched opiates or regularly uses them for whatever reason is automatically de facto an addict but the facts do not support that viewpoint. A quick example -- only 15% or so of the heroin users in Vietnam had trouble with it when they came back to the states. In other words, some people have problems and some don-t. But there is room for everyone here without the namecalling. She was just relating an incident that happened with her sister and any honest person would have to admit that they couldn-t say whether she was an addict or not without knowing more of the facts.

And, for what is worth, take it or leave it, I would also have to disagree with Devildrug-s statement that chipping is "on the edge" because I have personally known people that chipped for years without ever getting addicted. And, once again, I-m not saying people never go from chipper to addict. I-m just saying that people are making a number of assumptions that may or may not be true in a given case, mainly that there is no such thing as responsible opiate use -- a statement with which I wholeheartedly disagree. That-s exactly what happened to my favorite singer layne staley of alice in chains. anytime there was an interview it was drugs this and drugs that and it was no wonder he could never get drugs off of his brain -- they wouldn-t let him. they just assumed he was an addict and constantly reminded him of the fact making it hard for him to get away from dope if he-d wanted to.

I agree with what you said. And no, I don't feel that everyone who uses opiates is an addict. Been in this game long enough to know that not all of us fall into addiction, but I would say a great percent do. It certainly did not mean I feel that no one should be able to view their feelings when they feel that they are being attacked. But, be open to the fact that most are going to express their views and opinions and with so many falling into addiction, it would only stand to reason that those who do or did are going to express their thoughts. I should of used quotes to make my point. But didn't because I was in a hurry and normally I don't respond in such a way. I will go back and read through the posts.

And making assumptions....I don't necessarily agree that anyone was making assumptions, but going on personal experience. I have been using for more than half my life and I am 37. Sure I was able to get through college, etc., but there was a point when using occassionally turned into daily use and when one gets to that point it is hard to turn back. And for most it ends up this way.

I am certainly not preaching in anyway, but I have seen where an addiction to opiates can take someone. Whether it be my own experience, friends, or through the work I do. You tend to get a narrowed view when you have seen the destruction.

Regarding Layne Staley...He died due to his addiction to heroin. Not only was he using heroin, his health and well being were declining. This does not happen with occassional use and it's fucking tragic when someone as talented dies as he did. I do agree that the media can be relentless, but when someone is heavy into a heroin habit as he was, it is all one focuses on. Does media cause pressure? Absolutely! But it was not the media that caused him to use more and more, it was his addiction to an addictive drug.

I knew Brad Nowell personally and yeah one could say the media's attention to his drug use was a constant pressure. I knew him before he used and after and the decline someone takes when using heroin is steady. Maybe the reason some see those who use pills as addicts is because of where it took them and many do start using heroin. Once you get a taste it is hard to turn back and for those who don't get caught up in a cycle of addiction, good for you! Believe me I am not preaching about recovery or trying to sell anyone on the evils of heroin use or opiates in general.

If there is anything I have learned...People will play down their drug use. Whether it be for the sake of family members, in a health exam, or maybe for the media. My brother is always trying to get me to get him a script for Vicodin. Is he an addict?No! Yeah, or maybe not to the extent I am, but he likes the feeling well enough and gets in a bit of a mood when he runs out. Maybe he is in a great deal of pain. Who knows! I don't necessarily want to label him an addict, but the potential to develop an addiction to pain meds is there. Just as with Satori, I don't believe anyone is name calling when saying the potential for addiction is there or that one "may be" an addict. I think in this sense they are talking from experience.

Maybe your fortunate enough to only use opiates on occassion and as I said I have no quams with someone who uses on occassion for whatever reason, but you just don't see it all that often and with time, MOST will become addicted. Do I call myself addicted, YEAH. But, I don't claim that to be true for all. We are talking about the majority here and I would say that the majority of those on this site are addicted to opiates. Using the term loosely of course. Maybe looking at the physiological makeup of opiates and those who use or abuse them. I know there is dependence and addiction, but then again the majority. I would imagine that is what most refer to.

[JimmyJoe]

I agree with what you said. And no, I don't feel that everyone who uses opiates is an addict. Been in this game long enough to know that not all of us fall into addiction, but I would say a great percent do. It certainly did not mean I feel that no one should be able to view their feelings when they feel that they are being attacked. But, be open to the fact that most are going to express their views and opinions and with so many falling into addiction, it would only stand to reason that those who do or did are going to express their thoughts. I should of used quotes to make my point. But didn't because I was in a hurry and normally I don't respond in such a way. I will go back and read through the posts.

And making assumptions....I don't necessarily agree that anyone was making assumptions, but going on personal experience. I have been using for more than half my life and I am 37. Sure I was able to get through college, etc., but there was a point when using occassionally turned into daily use and when one gets to that point it is hard to turn back. And for most it ends up this way.

I am certainly not preaching in anyway, but I have seen where an addiction to opiates can take someone. Whether it be my own experience, friends, or through the work I do. You tend to get a narrowed view when you have seen the destruction.

Regarding Layne Staley...He died due to his addiction to heroin. Not only was he using heroin, his health and well being were declining. This does not happen with occassional use and it's fucking tragic when someone as talented dies as he did. I do agree that the media can be relentless, but when someone is heavy into a heroin habit as he was, it is all one focuses on. Does media cause pressure? Absolutely! But it was not the media that caused him to use more and more, it was his addiction to an addictive drug.

I knew Brad Nowell personally and yeah one could say the media's attention to his drug use was a constant pressure. I knew him before he used and after and the decline someone takes when using heroin is steady. Maybe the reason some see those who use pills as addicts is because of where it took them and many do start using heroin. Once you get a taste it is hard to turn back and for those who don't get caught up in a cycle of addiction, good for you! Believe me I am not preaching about recovery or trying to sell anyone on the evils of heroin use or opiates in general.

If there is anything I have learned...People will play down their drug use. Whether it be for the sake of family members, in a health exam, or maybe for the media. My brother is always trying to get me to get him a script for Vicodin. Is he an addict?No! Yeah, or maybe not to the extent I am, but he likes the feeling well enough and gets in a bit of a mood when he runs out. Maybe he is in a great deal of pain. Who knows! I don't necessarily want to label him an addict, but the potential to develop an addiction to pain meds is there. Just as with Satori, I don't believe anyone is name calling when saying the potential for addiction is there or that one "may be" an addict. I think in this sense they are talking from experience.

Maybe your fortunate enough to only use opiates on occassion and as I said I have no quams with someone who uses on occassion for whatever reason, but you just don't see it all that often and with time, MOST will become addicted. Do I call myself addicted, YEAH. But, I don't claim that to be true for all. We are talking about the majority here and I would say that the majority of those on this site are addicted to opiates. Using the term loosely of course. Maybe looking at the physiological makeup of opiates and those who use or abuse them. I know there is dependence and addiction, but then again the majority. I would imagine that is what most refer to.

I see your point and agree with pretty much what you said. The point I was attacked on wasn't so much about addiction but about whether legalization would make the drugs safer. I feel they would be safer if regulated along with harm reduction information and overdose kits being readily available. The only thing I would disagree with you on in the above post is that I would say that a great many people that start using opiates on a regular basis will struggle with their habit. But, the stats show that alot of people try them and never really get into them. And, there are alot more chippers out there who, through their rituals, keep addiction at a distance. An example would be a friend I know who only uses it in a certain setting -- a setting which he finds himself in only a couple of times a month at the most. He's been doing that for years. His only gripe is that he doesn't have the "connections" that regular users do because he's not that much into the scene if you know what I mean. But, yeah I understand your point and I know many that have struggled with the habit. I have no qualms about that. What I do have qualms about though is trying to treat opiates as if they are somehow different than everything else that is addictive -- a sort of devil drug. I think (physical addiction aside) that the psychological aspects of opiate "addiction" are pretty much the same as addiction to tobacco, alcohol and other things and that saying it's all the drug's fault in the case of opiates takes power away from individuals to get control over their lives. A lot of the psychological addiction has nothing to do with the drug, but rather the rituals associated with it and the lifestyle one adopts in that regard. Once again, I point to cigarettes as an example -- there are people who won't touch nicotine gum (even though it contains the same active ingredient and the same addictive ingredient as cigarettes) because they are addicted to the ritual part of smoking or because they have friends that smoke, hang out in an environment where smoking is the norm, etc. But, I am the first to admit that many people struggle with their use of opiates.

Wow, 37. I'm thirty-something too, a few years younger than you, but I learned this about control over the mind idea fairly late in life. It would have saved me a lot of headaches when I was younger. I've learned that we have a lot more control over our minds than we give ourselves credit for. That can be a helpful tool and working with addiction and bad habits.

[antony]

I wonder how bad withdrawal would be if no one knew about the typical withdrawal symptoms. This has nothing to do with the post so meh. I wonder If i would think withdrawal is so horrible if I hadn't seen it in movies. Oh well I never go through withdrawal and I hope I won't. About your post hmm.....you dont seem like an addict to me. Maybe you kinda are. You are on opiophile.com. lol. If you weren't kinda semi-addicted you owuldnt be looking for drug info all the time. My mom takes painkillers for pain and shows no interest in them whatsoever. She just takes the pills when she's told. She doesnt try to get high or anything it's weird. She can barely reember the name of half of them. Being an addict isnt always a bad thing. Theres different degrees of addiction. I think if your just ttaking that much you'll be okay. It's when you start going up and injeecting your pills and sleeping in dumpsters and outside of churches that it becomes a problem. Just use in moderation. Willpower is all it takes. If you start taking like 300mg of hydrocodone in a day then your probably an addict but with the amounts you take I dunno. Just be careful.


thats funny you say that. when i started taking pills, i honestly didn't know they were opies, nor did i think w/ds had any thing to do with vics. i would go on a very small bender (but huge at the time), 1000 mgs of hydro in 3 days. now the wds weren't bad, just a bit of loose stool, constant yanwning and tearing, and just an over all depressed and blah feeling.

then when i got into them heavier, i knew thats what it had to be cuz of all of metioned above was getting progressivley worse, and more pills would releave simptoms

to this day, i go on 2weeks on 2weeks off, and i consider myself addicted even though i used to be 2months on 2 days off and sick all the time and my dosage is ALOT lower. so addiction is about as relevent as shades of green

[shaunclo]

I see your point and agree with pretty much what you said. The point I was attacked on wasn't so much about addiction but about whether legalization would make the drugs safer. I feel they would be safer if regulated along with harm reduction information and overdose kits being readily available. The only thing I would disagree with you on in the above post is that I would say that a great many people that start using opiates on a regular basis will struggle with their habit. But, the stats show that alot of people try them and never really get into them. And, there are alot more chippers out there who, through their rituals, keep addiction at a distance. An example would be a friend I know who only uses it in a certain setting -- a setting which he finds himself in only a couple of times a month at the most. He's been doing that for years. His only gripe is that he doesn't have the "connections" that regular users do because he's not that much into the scene if you know what I mean. But, yeah I understand your point and I know many that have struggled with the habit. I have no qualms about that. What I do have qualms about though is trying to treat opiates as if they are somehow different than everything else that is addictive -- a sort of devil drug. I think (physical addiction aside) that the psychological aspects of opiate "addiction" are pretty much the same as addiction to tobacco, alcohol and other things and that saying it's all the drug's fault in the case of opiates takes power away from individuals to get control over their lives. A lot of the psychological addiction has nothing to do with the drug, but rather the rituals associated with it and the lifestyle one adopts in that regard. Once again, I point to cigarettes as an example -- there are people who won't touch nicotine gum (even though it contains the same active ingredient and the same addictive ingredient as cigarettes) because they are addicted to the ritual part of smoking or because they have friends that smoke, hang out in an environment where smoking is the norm, etc. But, I am the first to admit that many people struggle with their use of opiates.

Wow, 37. I'm thirty-something too, a few years younger than you, but I learned this about control over the mind idea fairly late in life. It would have saved me a lot of headaches when I was younger. I've learned that we have a lot more control over our minds than we give ourselves credit for. That can be a helpful tool and working with addiction and bad habits.

Jesus Fuckin Christ JimmyJoe, you are completely missing the point Candy is trying to make here. DONT BE SO GODDAMN DEFENSIVE!! You have stated your point the same way, just written differently like 20 times now. I get it, he gets it, Im pretty sure we all get what your saying. Do you always have to get the last word in??? It seems like to me that if your name isnt the last one on the post, than you HAVE TO make sure that you write out another paragraph. Im not trying to be a dick here, but you are coming off as such a cry-baby. So fuckin what if you thought you were teamed up against, so fuckin what if they called you a noob. This is a narcotics site where people talk about hard drugs, I believe you that there are a lot of chippers out there, but what your not seeing is that FOR THE MOST PART, once you get a love growing for opiates, your chances are not good. Plain and simple. This doesn mean that once you have tried H you are fucked, it only means that for the most part, most people end up losing a lot once H becomes a thing they love to do. Just take it as it is, a lot of poeple are going to keep edging you on because you are proving to be an easy target. You have a lot of intelligent things to say, and we want you to keep on saying them, just let what you say be said and who cares if people try to change around what you say, thats for them to do. They cant go into your post and change anything you write. People are allowed to say and name call (to a certain extent) all they want in here. Please dont let it get you down.

[JimmyJoe]

Jesus Fuckin Christ JimmyJoe, you are completely missing the point Candy is trying to make here. DONT BE SO GODDAMN DEFENSIVE!! You have stated your point the same way, just written differently like 20 times now. I get it, he gets it, Im pretty sure we all get what your saying. Do you always have to get the last word in??? It seems like to me that if your name isnt the last one on the post, than you HAVE TO make sure that you write out another paragraph. Im not trying to be a dick here, but you are coming off as such a cry-baby. So fuckin what if you thought you were teamed up against, so fuckin what if they called you a noob. This is a narcotics site where people talk about hard drugs, I believe you that there are a lot of chippers out there, but what your not seeing is that FOR THE MOST PART, once you get a love growing for opiates, your chances are not good. Plain and simple. This doesn mean that once you have tried H you are fucked, it only means that for the most part, most people end up losing a lot once H becomes a thing they love to do. Just take it as it is, a lot of poeple are going to keep edging you on because you are proving to be an easy target. You have a lot of intelligent things to say, and we want you to keep on saying them, just let what you say be said and who cares if people try to change around what you say, thats for them to do. They cant go into your post and change anything you write. People are allowed to say and name call (to a certain extent) all they want in here. Please dont let it get you down.

last word. last word, hehehe. I didn't think I was being defensive in the last post nor did I take offense at candy's post -- i'm just typically long-winded. in fact, this may be my shortest post ever.

[devilsdrug]

heh jj this is dd here i am an asholio i do understand where you are coming from i am just not from the touchy feely school of thought . i just dont think it has a place in the western world of dope fiends

[exitwound]

heh jj this is dd here i am an asholio i do understand where you are coming from i am just not from the touchy feely school of thought . i just dont think it has a place in the western world of dope fiends

I'm all for being friendly and nice to people, but once it transitions over to "touchy-feely" I have to agree with you.

That said, not all dope fiends are fiends, know what I'm sayin'?

[JimmyJoe]

I'm all for being friendly and nice to people, but once it transitions over to "touchy-feely" I have to agree with you.

That said, not all dope fiends are fiends, know what I'm sayin'?

What's touchy feely about proclaiming that one has control over one's actions. There is nothing touchy feely about oriental philosophy unless you're willing to concede it's touchy feely to whine about the problems one has (being addicted) as the result of one's own actions rather than taking charge of one's own life and doing something about it instead of just whining and calling everyone junkies and addicts. Western dope fiends can learn from eastern dope fiends.

[poppy]

Unfortunately I haven't been on line much this week so I've been catching up on posts so to speak and I can't believe some of the rubbish I've read on this thread eg. opiates are not a Devil's drug to everyone and they're not even addictive for every one. Hello.... I think you'll find that opiate's are addictive.
Anyway everything has been pretty much done and dusted so I won't bore anyone with going over old ground other than to say I think Devil's Drug knows his specialist subject pretty well (after all he's been messing with opiates longer than most of us put together!!) and therefore deserves a little more respect than he's been getting of late (and some of his reputation points back)

Why are the terms 'addict' and 'junkie' more offensive than terms such as 'dope fiend'?
I'm not proud to be an addict or junkie but ultimately it describes WHAT I am which I should point out is a small part of WHO I am!

[satori]

I agree with DevilsDrug, it's all about how open you are to your own situation. It's hard to take a step back and look at yourself impartially... Also; I think junkie or addict is a state of mind and/or ritual a person has...not knowing you personally, can't tell if your sis was right...


Absolutely

[satori]

WOW - I dont check this forum for a while and there are a ton of responses. I talked more with her, and she didnt know i wasnt taking it daily any more (but that doesnt matter too much), she had a bad experience with hydrocodone cough syrup where she used it all in a few days in a abusive way and thought i must be using it the same way. I have met people who havent taken it for a year but i would consider more of an addict then some i have known who take it daily. Theres no real way to determine over the internet what state some one else is in (mental state). Even when your married to some one and spend everyday together you might have no idea. ALso, it would take years to explain years of events so there is no real way to prove or disprove intent unless you are completely honest (which is subjective to begin with). My back is finnaly feeling better and neck doesnt hurt (two car accidents affecting different things). Lately i feel terrible whenever i take opiates so i have been taking ibuprofen - tyelenol and soma instead of pain meds. I love all of you! Dont fight its not worth it!!! Also about me getting "upset" because people are bieng honest.. WHat?? If they are being honest and its brutaly honest then i cant be brutaly honest back? Its true, no one reading this can have any real idea of my situation just like i cant know yours even if you wrote a 20 page essay! ;)

<3

[Tea Time]

I just wanted to add my thoughts on this. I don't know whether you are an addict or not. Can't even claim to know. All that I will say is that I remember when I used to take that amount or less of codeine or hydrocodone. And I did take it for a two broken bones, a compound fracture, and three torn ligaments - so it was for pain and then after my surgery. And I got addicted. Straight up. It can happen to you no matter how hard you try to resist it. Just keep this in mind.

Addiction is a slippery slope. By the time you realize that you've lost your footing, it's already too late.

Take care of yourself,

TT

[poppy]

Tea Time thanks for your view, which seems to say to me that addiction can happen to anyone!
To me your post draws attention to the fact that everyone is vulnerable to the lure of opiate drugs regardless of which route they arrive at 'destination opiate'. Be it taking strong prescription opiates in an attempt to mask chronic physical pain or taking heroin to mask mental pain. Bearing in mind that its easy to categorize heroin users as the lowest of the low without asking what led an someone to try heroin in the first place. Lets face it media coverage of at least the last 20 years ensures we all know the potential dangers of heroin, whether we believe these warnings is a different matter........

Many people become addicted to heroin (and other drugs, including prescription drugs both legally and illegally obtained) in a subconscious attempt to try and self medicate themselves for a whole range of mental illnesses from depression (which should not be by any means underestimated), postnatal depression, manic depression, schizophrenia (spelling)etc, etc.. There are a million and one mental health illnesses which all deserve equal regard and unfortunately cause equally difficult problems (though obviously not of the same nature)
Anyway (waffled a bit there!!) my point is the fact that we need to question not just whether but if it is more acceptable to mask physical pain with a drug than to mask mental pain with the same drug??? i suppose I'm back to the old question ie.What makes a person either an 'addict' or 'someone who is drug dependent? What's the difference?

[satori]

I have turned down a lot of things lately (methdaone, heroind etc) but that doesnt mean i am or am not addicted. To be honest the term addicted is so vague it could imply to most forms of use for whatever reason (when looked at from different points of view). I dont really care what im called, i do like the feeling but i dont need to feel that way constantly, however there have been times where i do feel like taking it every other hour and sometimes i dont take it for weeks (which usualy go's along with how i feel physicaly and someitmes mentaly). Theres no shame in it either way or for whatever reason for use.

I have been.... short because ive been upset lately. I might have a tumor on my adrenal gland which has made me.... well i have been acting differently then usual. So if i had said something ..... offensive i appoligize, i dont see anything i said that was bad but if some one took it that way, SOrry.

[poppy]

Hi satori, sorry to hear about your health worries, I hope things turn out ok. You haven't offended me in the least sorry if I seemed prickly.
Take care.

[JimmyJoe]

I have turned down a lot of things lately (methdaone, heroind etc) but that doesnt mean i am or am not addicted. To be honest the term addicted is so vague it could imply to most forms of use for whatever reason (when looked at from different points of view). I dont really care what im called, i do like the feeling but i dont need to feel that way constantly, however there have been times where i do feel like taking it every other hour and sometimes i dont take it for weeks (which usualy go's along with how i feel physicaly and someitmes mentaly). Theres no shame in it either way or for whatever reason for use.

I have been.... short because ive been upset lately. I might have a tumor on my adrenal gland which has made me.... well i have been acting differently then usual. So if i had said something ..... offensive i appoligize, i dont see anything i said that was bad but if some one took it that way, SOrry.

Absolutely. Words like addiction, junky and all that have become so vague and there are so many stereotypes, I think a new generation should come up with its own words to describe the experience. We are not chained to the words people before us use. Words are so powerful, I think there is plenty of room for new words and new ways of thinking on the whole issue. Which is not to say that the current addiction model is not useful at all. I wonder how the experience would change if scientists came up with a drug that stopped the body's production of (i forget the name of the chemical but I posted an article about it here from New Scientist magazine) the chemical that causes you to develop tolerance. They discovered this chemical in the body and they are working on new drugs (so I've read) to turn off the body's production of this drug to make opiates more effective -- more like pot where you don't develop a tolerance as quickly. Ultimately thinking about addiction brings up more questions in my mind than answers. Are opiate users addicted to the feeling the drug causes? If so, is there anything wrong with being addicted to feeling good? Since the feelings of pleasure do eventually wear off as you become habituated to the drugs, is that what makes opiates bad for many people -- because you have to take more to get the same effect? I don't know the answers to these questions. I pose them because I think about them sometimes.

[shaunclo]

Addiction is a slippery slope. By the time you realize that you've lost your footing, it's already too late. TT

You wrote that just perfectly TT, I likeeee.........

[satori]

I just wanted to add my thoughts on this. I don't know whether you are an addict or not. Can't even claim to know. All that I will say is that I remember when I used to take that amount or less of codeine or hydrocodone. And I did take it for a two broken bones, a compound fracture, and three torn ligaments - so it was for pain and then after my surgery. And I got addicted. Straight up. It can happen to you no matter how hard you try to resist it. Just keep this in mind.

Addiction is a slippery slope. By the time you realize that you've lost your footing, it's already too late.

Take care of yourself,

TT

I think that is true in some cases. It never really snuck up on me when i had been at my.... questionable moments. I never bought anything more then oxy (have been able to buy H and methadone but decided against it) but i was deff. physicaly dependant to oxy after surgery and back injury. However i was not in any form of dendial i knew what was going on. I think that type of addiction is the type where the person wnats to "quit" because they think they should but dont reallllly want to. That or they are physicaly depedant to the point of needing a hospital visit and hadnt been aware of the progress so far.

[satori]

Also is it possible to delete these posts or should this be something to leave up because it could help others? i think all that can be said has pretty much been said but it does have some informational value. Im going to sleep though, goodnight every 1