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bogumil
02-24-2006, 08:39 PM
Some junky from another board posted, how to make MAM from Morphine HCl. He would use the drops from MErck, but it should work with any HCl. It might wrk with sulfate too?

Just put the morphine (powdered or liquid) on a spoon. Add acetic acid and cook it until the spoon is dry. Be a little careful with the heat but it may cook a while. He shot it and say it is great.

Have fun.

Mokelly
03-05-2006, 04:54 PM
and you think this is legit bog? acetic acid can be substituted with vinegar right?? Thanks bog

exitwound
03-05-2006, 06:09 PM
I saw little jars marked ACETIC ACID with a date in the late 90's (second number was hard to make out) written on the top of them, at a recent visit with my wife to her midwives' office for a post-birth checkup. Anyone know is this could be used to acetylate morphine?

bogumil
03-07-2006, 08:43 PM
Yes, there were many people who already knew about it and do it. I was angry cause I never had heard about it before ... The one guy explained it .. it was something like for a double acetylation, which yields DI - ACETYL morphine, one needs acetic anhydride (or acetic chloride). But for only ONE acetylation, yielding MONO - ACETYL - morphine one only needs acetic acid and heat to get the reaction rolling.

I think it shouldnt be a problem to use the older acetic acid. I would just open the bottles and see if they still smell like vinegar. If they do: on one pill a few drops, just to wetten it and to have a little bit of acid covering it, so that it can cook for a few seconds, is enough.

I only would check if it is too acidic before one shoots it, I dont know if one always adds the exact amount of acid to react with all the morphine or one adds a littl ebit too much, when one wants to have a little lake to be able to cook it. MAybe if one dilutes it with water, the one could just add 3 drops of 99% acetic acid and the rest water. Dont know if that would work ....

But they said its just: morphine pill crushed on a spoon, acetic acid on it, then heat it with lighter and let it boil a few seconds until all the liquid is gone (of course beeing careful to not burn it).

asaqwert
03-20-2006, 07:55 PM
Yes, there were many people who already knew about it and do it. I was angry cause I never had heard about it before ... The one guy explained it .. it was something like for a double acetylation, which yields DI - ACETYL morphine, one needs acetic anhydride (or acetic chloride). But for only ONE acetylation, yielding MONO - ACETYL - morphine one only needs acetic acid and heat to get the reaction rolling.

I think it shouldnt be a problem to use the older acetic acid. I would just open the bottles and see if they still smell like vinegar. If they do: on one pill a few drops, just to wetten it and to have a little bit of acid covering it, so that it can cook for a few seconds, is enough.

I only would check if it is too acidic before one shoots it, I dont know if one always adds the exact amount of acid to react with all the morphine or one adds a littl ebit too much, when one wants to have a little lake to be able to cook it. MAybe if one dilutes it with water, the one could just add 3 drops of 99% acetic acid and the rest water. Dont know if that would work ....

But they said its just: morphine pill crushed on a spoon, acetic acid on it, then heat it with lighter and let it boil a few seconds until all the liquid is gone (of course beeing careful to not burn it).

i do not think this actually works

do you not think that people would be just doing this with their morphine, instead of trying to get heroin off the street? i know i would...

i've tried mixing vinager with my morphine solution and boiling it, although i didn't boil it all the way down; it did not work

i think this will not work because acetic acid IS different than acetic anhydride

please, someone who has TRIED this conversion, and knows more about it, please post and tell us if this will POSSIBLY work

i do not think it will

insanesteveo
03-22-2006, 01:55 PM
if acetic acid heated to over 800 degrees becomes acetic anhydride, and acetic acid doesnt react with morphine(or at least ALL the morphine), then if it was boiled all the way down and heated sufficiently(and quickly as it sounds, in a spooon) i would think that the morphine would cook with the acetic acid until it turns to acetic anhydride, then it reacts and makes h.

im not sure if that would explain it or work, just thoughts.

Mokelly
03-22-2006, 03:39 PM
I'm pretty sure if that were the case it would catch fire well before reaching 800 degrees....

devilsdrug
03-22-2006, 05:16 PM
the m would be gone long before 800

THEPAINTER1960
03-22-2006, 06:42 PM
i do not think this actually works

do you not think that people would be just doing this with their morphine, instead of trying to get heroin off the street? i know i would...

i've tried mixing vinager with my morphine solution and boiling it, although i didn't boil it all the way down; it did not work

i think this will not work because acetic acid IS different than acetic anhydride

please, someone who has TRIED this conversion, and knows more about it, please post and tell us if this will POSSIBLY work

i do not think it will
Man i never heard about that but i do know that they use it to make heroin out of morphine base. I know that swim used to take his MS-CONTIN 100 miligram and take the coating off and then he would crush the tablet . Then he would make a saline solution out of epsom salt and water . And then draw up the liquid. Man i bet he just remembers that pins & needles & warm rush. oh swim what memories

kramorph
03-24-2006, 10:22 PM
I vaguely remeber the reaction of morphine and gacial acetic acid does yeild a small amount of MAM, and with a catalyst some DAM.But the conditions required for reaction destroys alot of the morphine. All this talk about morphine that everyones got, where can I get some?

bogumil
03-31-2006, 05:17 PM
i do not think this actually works

do you not think that people would be just doing this with their morphine, instead of trying to get heroin off the street? i know i would...

i've tried mixing vinager with my morphine solution and boiling it, although i didn't boil it all the way down; it did not work

i think this will not work because acetic acid IS different than acetic anhydride

please, someone who has TRIED this conversion, and knows more about it, please post and tell us if this will POSSIBLY work

i do not think it will

Yes, but its done pretty regular over here fro what I heard. And I think most people get H from the street way easier than morphine from the doc. ...

But I dont know. Did it one time but had to throw it away because I burned it ... and then I had no acetic anymore. and then no morphine and so on. But next time I get something for my pain I will try and report (says SWIM).

Yes, the acetic acid is different from the acetic anhydride. Thats why you only get the first acetylation done. To get the 2 nessesar for H, you need acetic anhydride or acetic chloride. But like I said Im only very convinced that it works, because there was a long thread on a board and about 5 people wrote that they do this regularly.

So, yes, people have to try and report. But better not try and stay away from drugs.

psychotiKK
04-02-2006, 01:06 AM
It seems almost TOO easy to make heroin. It almost sounds like you can make H from taking some morphine pills and adding acetic anhydride. If it's not that easy, then wouldn't you somehow take morphine sulfate pills and convert them to pure morphine hcl powder, then adding acetic anhydride to the morphine?

The DEA Heroin Manufacture recipe reports taking the morphine hcl and adding acetic anhydride at about 3x the mass of the morphine. Use something like a stainless steel pot with lid closed, and heated at 85 degrees Celsius. (185 degrees F) Avoid boiling. Cook for about 5 hours until all the morphine has dissolved. Then there are extra steps in filtering out the other solutions. This creates 700 grams of heroin base per kilo of morphine. It would be wise to purify the base by dissolving it in twice it's mass of boiling ethyl alcohol, then filtered into a heated flask. The flask is placed in cold ice water and then placed in the refrigerator with a fan blowing on it. After several hours the paste crystalizes and is vacuum filtered. The product is re-crystallized heroin base. The procedure of purification is to filter out alot of crap. The final procedure isn't required, but to do it you must use re-crystallized heroin base or just plain heroin base. Some more solvents are added and heated, and of course more filtering done, but it is well worth it in the end when you create the fine white powdered heroin hydrochloride aka Diacetylmorphine HCl aka Heroin no. 4 aka China White aka the injectable form. Phew...

So the procedures ARE more difficult then just adding acetic anhydride. I'm not saying the process is difficult, just not as easy as people make it sound. I have one question that hopefully someone knowledgeable can answer. How is mexican black tar heroin created? I was thinking it might be just heroin base using different solvents and methods of purifying. I believe I am wrong. I found this on a website:

Tar on the other hand is done with more basic processing skipping most
steps:
going directly from opium to heroin by acetylating opium instead of
morphine base.

->Raw Opium
->Cooked Opium
->Heroin base/HCl (tar)

Here is the process I SORT of explained for China White:

China white is done by many steps :

->Raw Opium
->Cooked Opium
->Morphine base
->Alcohol morphine base
->Heroin base
->Heroin HCl
->Final purification (?)
And during all these steps the product is purified at maximum, using
activated charcoal, chloroform to absorb impurities and get a white
color, brown impurities being absorbed.

HUGE differences in the manufacture of tar compared to china white. Man I need to get over to the east side and try that shit out! Or maybe I could buy alot of black tar someday and try to purify it into powder or even china white (doubt it, need lots of chemicals, it's a long prep, and probably eats up tar like crazy if purfied.

ANOTHER QUESTION. If china white is extremely pure, then how come mexican black tar was stated to be at 60% to 84% in purity in the year 98 and it's supposidely increasing. Anyone have an idea how they are doing this? Same procedure.. yet much higher level of purity..

LAST QUESTION. If the half-life of diacetylmorphine is only 3-5 minutes, then the H is converted to its metabolites: 6-monoacetylmorphine, (6-MAM) morphine, and morphine-glucuronides
How come people don't make 6-MAM instead of heroin if heroin only has a half life of up to 5 minutes? I have a guess but I dont know if it's correct. The "rush" you feel is from the diacetylmorphine (heroin) Once it's ended you are feeling the effects of 6-MAM and the metabolites? Or is 6-MAM the only recreational/active metabolite? Damn I've learned so much over the past year or so..

ontario_opiophile
04-02-2006, 05:14 AM
Mexican Tar is horse shit. It's such a crude product. It's contaminated with all sorts of junk and different alkaloids. It's got codeine, papaverine, 6mam, morphine, diamoprhine. They find all sorts of shit in it. I'm sure it feels decent but I would prefer the Asian style heroin or Colombian heroin. I don't like how they produce their heroin central america. I prefer a dry power. Not something that looks like a little piece of poo. But hey, i would probably take the shitty mexi-tar if somemone gave it to me so meh.

psychotiKK
04-02-2006, 06:09 AM
Mexican Tar is horse shit. It's such a crude product. It's contaminated with all sorts of junk and different alkaloids. It's got codeine, papaverine, 6mam, morphine, diamoprhine. They find all sorts of shit in it. I'm sure it feels decent but I would prefer the Asian style heroin or Colombian heroin. I don't like how they produce their heroin central america. I prefer a dry power. Not something that looks like a little piece of poo. But hey, i would probably take the shitty mexi-tar if somemone gave it to me so meh.

Be careful thinking that black tar is shitty.. the purity of this form keeps going up over the years. Smoking it sucked, I hardly got any effect no matter how much I did. I "chased the dragon" too. Everyone says smoking tar is the way to go.. yea right. Cooking it up with a little bit of water in a spoon and putting the solution up the nose is the second best way of taking the stuff. I think you are being either incredibly ignorant or just copying what others have said. Have you actually tried it? No.. Also you say it can have codeine, papaverine, 6mam, morphine, diamorphine.. wtf? How am I going to get papaverine and codeine in my heroin unless it wasn't really heroin and is opium? BLACK TAR HEROIN IS NOT OPIUM. What's so weird about levels of 6-MAM and morphine showing up? That's completely normal for heroin. The funny thing is people who rather have mexi brown powder don't understand that the black tar isn't any weaker then the powder. I'd rather have some good phillie dope, which is diacetylmorphine HCL, and also known as China White for it's white appearance. That's the purest form made as you probably know. To say black tar is shit though.. don't shoot up alot of it thinking it's super weak, cuz it will cause a quick OD. I've banged tar like I mentioned before, and it definately did not feel like all that crap you mentioned. It was incredibly euphoric and provided a strong rush so intense all I could do is laugh and enjoy the ride. When I watch Requiem for a Dream from the begining when Harry and the Wayans guy are shooting up the good stuff and right after they are giggling like little girls and stumbling around. The effect lasts around 4-6 hours if you take enough. Black tar H is the best opiate I ever had. Nothing really comes close.. except maybe IV morphine or IV hydromorphone, but I haven't tried either. It IS basically a crude form of heroin with a decently-high purity. It is usually cut with either caffeine, "shoe polish", (ive heard this before but I doubt it) and quinine (which I believe is cut in other forms of heroin, not tar.. but I'm not 100% sure)

bogumil
04-03-2006, 08:03 PM
@psychotikk: I know, its unbelievable, but making H is as easy as baking a cake. Easier. And making H from morphine pills would work excellent. Actually I know someone personally who did it. I dont know there is some sign when you realize that your at the H state but dont ask me what it is. LOL. But anyhow I would be happy with 6MAM too and so will probably be others and think they have heroin. I read somewhere that 6 MAM is better anyway? No idea, I kind of doubt it, but the stuff must be great. Or did you maybe mean the halflfe of heroin in the body with 3-5 minutes? Because this I know that heroin becomes debuild to 6MAM within 2 minutes, max.5 in the brain tissue, the 6MAM lasts about 20 minutes and is debuild in the blood to morphine.

But getting AA is almost impossible, well for someone who has no connection to people who are in this chem business. I dont have this connections ...

Of course, if you want pharma grade heroin that yo ucan inject right from the bottle without any filtering, then you would have to do all the refining. But with the aa boil you get somewhat aroun 90 percent, less if you do it on unprepared pills, but still... H is H for someone who never used pharma grade and the stuff that comes out from this boil would knock us out probably.

So I think were meaning the same: Its difficult and easy at the same time deoending on what purity you want. Im very happy witha anythign about 10%, so the cooked stuff would make me happy ...

BTW: Has someone tried the MAM procedure? I only have slow release morphine and the stuff that comes out when I boil this becomes dark bron and gooey. Nothing one would like to shoot ... And one cnt snort it either cause its too sticky. I lost it the last time so I dont know how it is when eaten ...

opos
04-03-2006, 08:25 PM
I posted in the general section in chemistry about what you can do with raw morphine and acetic acid. You can possibly make 6-MAM (hcl) with acetic acid&HCL which is supposed to be as good as DAM HCL(?). Morphine alkaloid reacted with acetic acid=morphine acetate, morphine acetate+hcl= 6-MAM HCL (or possibly morphine acetate HCL however,since HCL is a powerful acid I believe it would add the acetyl group to make MAM since it's not directly re-acting with the morphine alkaloid). I have a friend who is in college for biological chemistry maybe she will know for sure.

asaqwert
04-04-2006, 02:38 PM
I posted in the general section in chemistry about what you can do with raw morphine and acetic acid. You can possibly make 6-MAM (hcl) with acetic acid&HCL which is supposed to be as good as DAM HCL(?). Morphine alkaloid reacted with acetic acid=morphine acetate, morphine acetate+hcl= 6-MAM HCL (or possibly morphine acetate HCL however,since HCL is a powerful acid I believe it would add the acetyl group to make MAM since it's not directly re-acting with the morphine alkaloid). I have a friend who is in college for biological chemistry maybe she will know for sure.

NO NO NO

wrong wrong wrong


morphine and acetic acid MAY make a SMALL amount of 6-MAM but it is very unlikely, especially with dilute acetic acid

if you have glacial acetic acid (99.9% pure) then you MAY (but again, very unlikely) get a small amount of 6-MAM

morphine BASE with acetic acid will simply make morphine acetate, which is not much different (not in effect esp. but it will have different solubillities and whatnot, to a degree, than the hcl salt of morphien, or the sulphate salt) than hcl or sulphate. mixing the acetate salt with hcl will, at most, make morphine hcl, but not copmletely as not all of the acetate salt will be converted

if you had base morphine and mixed it iwth hcl, you would get morphine hcl, thats all

hcl WILL NOT acetylate ANYTHING

you need an acetylating agent, which acetic acid CAN be, for some things, but in this case it will simply react to POSSIBLY make some of the acetate salt but more likely, just sit in the solution beacuse suphuric and hydrochloric are both stronger acids

you need acetic anhydride to acetylate morphine to any usefull amount

opos
04-05-2006, 08:22 AM
NO NO NO

wrong wrong wrong


morphine and acetic acid MAY make a SMALL amount of 6-MAM but it is very unlikely, especially with dilute acetic acid

if you have glacial acetic acid (99.9% pure) then you MAY (but again, very unlikely) get a small amount of 6-MAM

morphine BASE with acetic acid will simply make morphine acetate, which is not much different (not in effect esp. but it will have different solubillities and whatnot, to a degree, than the hcl salt of morphien, or the sulphate salt) than hcl or sulphate. mixing the acetate salt with hcl will, at most, make morphine hcl, but not copmletely as not all of the acetate salt will be converted

if you had base morphine and mixed it iwth hcl, you would get morphine hcl, thats all

hcl WILL NOT acetylate ANYTHING

you need an acetylating agent, which acetic acid CAN be, for some things, but in this case it will simply react to POSSIBLY make some of the acetate salt but more likely, just sit in the solution beacuse suphuric and hydrochloric are both stronger acids

you need acetic anhydride to acetylate morphine to any usefull amount Thats what I said !!! What do you mean I'm wrong? I just suggested hcl could create 6-mam hcl because I found it in a list of chemicals and I couldn't think of another way it was made. I said it creates morphine acetate and that HCL would create morphine HCL . I said the addition of HCL to acetate could create morphine acetate hcl , or 6-mam hcl depending on how it reacted I don't have HCL to try it. So how am I wrong?

jacky
04-05-2006, 10:31 AM
tar compared to powder?

back when I used to do heroin I had some bindles of powder sent in from chicago and new york, on a few seperate occasions. was told to be prepared that some of this powder might be adulterated with fent, and becuase of that to be very careful. the stuff was sent by a good freind who was rolling in cash as a bartender/drug dealer, I doubt that it was highly cut but of course I dont really know that.

the powder didnt last as long as the tar, totally shorter acting, that is my opinion, the powder bindle would be blown in two or three shots, and 3-5 hours later We would be hitting the tar.

perhaps the complex chemistry of the tar heroin exhibits a longer effect due to other opiate alkaloids present, I dont know.

or perhaps it was just that the town I lived in at the time was just beginning to be inundated with heroin, and the material was not being cut very much, as the supply far outweighed the demand. fronts everyday, and alot of the time the price was great with different dealers dropping by to try and front the material to secure a sale.

the powder sure looks better, smells better, but I wonder, Is it generally more pure? or is that just a myth.

the brands I was getting had a octopus on the bindle, or a "high dragon" logo.

kramorph
04-06-2006, 12:10 AM
That black tar you all talk about sounds to me like the same stuff I make from ms contin, but I would describe it as a brown tar(unless ya burn it slightly).

ontario_opiophile
04-06-2006, 04:00 AM
My statement earlier about tar being horse shit was not entirely true. The purity of tar is rising to almost as much as powdered dope. I just view tar as being unclean and tainted. Due to the colour and the consitancy and smell. It's made by less experienced chemists and the Colombian and Asian Heroin(s). But their skill is getting better. The purity keeps going up from what i've read. The only thing I have a problem with is that it doesnt seem to be good for veins. That is not a problem, because I don't inject, but It could be causing people alot of harm. From the look of it, it's not very good for your veins. Of course there is no way to know if powder heroin is better for your veins than tar but just from what I see, tar is probably worse. And it's certainly not good for snorting. The only decent way would be smoking it and injecting. I'm not sure about oral black tar but I would be willing to try it. I like oral administration.

Now back to the Mono-acetylmorphine. How many people have actually tried the MAM? If you have tried it, was it as good as H? Or at least better than Morphine? I haven't been able to find much info on MAM but from what I have gathered, it is supposed to be almost as potent as Diacetylmorphine. Would it be hard to Acetylate, opium? and if so what would be the product of said acetylation? I've given out too much rep in the last 24 hours hmm. I wish i had more to give out oh well.

illchemist
04-06-2006, 08:10 AM
you would need to use acetic anhydride in order to acetylate moprhine into H... please be carefull as I would think that injecting any residual acetic anhydride would be quite painful and toxic. You will not get any acetylation using acetic acid. Sorry... no MAM will be available

asaqwert
04-06-2006, 11:06 AM
you would need to use acetic anhydride in order to acetylate moprhine into H... please be carefull as I would think that injecting any residual acetic anhydride would be quite painful and toxic. You will not get any acetylation using acetic acid. Sorry... no MAM will be available

i agree, acetic acid will not be strong enough an acetylating agent to create anything but acetic acid in solution, maybe mixed with morphine free base it would create morphine acetate....but not 3-MAM 6-MAM or Diamorphine

stvip
04-06-2006, 02:52 PM
i agree, acetic acid will not be strong enough an acetylating agent to create anything but acetic acid in solution, maybe mixed with morphine free base it would create morphine acetate....but not 3-MAM 6-MAM or Diamorphine

Will you please stop playing Chemistry expert on these forums and instead go search for the paper(s) evincing the creation of 6-MAM via GAA? Then proceed to research the relative merits of 6-MAM and diamorphine. Please return with a clue, conclusion and possibly concussion. Thank you.

illchemist
04-06-2006, 06:11 PM
acetic acid is not an acetylating reagent. acetyl chloride and acetic anhydride are. the first position to acetylate would be the phenolic OH because it iks the most reactive. the secondary alcohol will be more difficult to acetylate and is therefore less reactive. i have never heard of anyone using acetic acid to perform an acetylation. there is nno way to just displace the 'OH' in the acid. the dianion that is formed is very stable due to resonance and it would donate proton to the tertiary amine in morphine making an acetate salt as asaqwert mentioned. you can, however, use 1 equivelent of acetyl chloride (with triethylamine as base) to make MAM.

stvip
04-06-2006, 06:33 PM
http://www.unodc.org/unodc/bulletin/bulletin_1963-01-01_1_page008.html

And here is an excerpt from the Wright paper to which they refer:

On the Action of Organic Acids and their Anhydrides on the Natural Alkaloids.
C.R.A. Wright, D.Sc., Lecturer on Chemistry, St. Mary's Hospital Medical School, London. (Journal of The Chemical Society, Vol. 27 (1874), pp. 1031-1043.)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Editor's Notes:
This is not the entire paper. Deleted sections are indicated by a "[...]". In most cases, deleted sections consist of quantitative analyses. These are not only uninteresting, but unimportant, since the molecular formulae for the alkaloids given in the paper are wrong. In the footnotes I attempt to describe how and why these early chemists went wrong in the above regard, and why we might care. (The editor is neither a chemist nor a historian -- please bear with him).

All temperatures are in Farenheit scale, as in the original.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

§ 1. Action of Acetic Acid on Codeine
In a former paper (Proc. Roy. Soc., 1872, p. 278), it was stated that attempts to form codeine derivatives by the action of glacial acetic acid at 100° met with only a small degree of success; when, however, codeine dried at 140° is heated to boiling with twice its weight of glacial acetic acid for eight hours (an inverted condenser being attached to retain the acid volatilised), a large quantity of a new base, diacetyl-codeine (1), is formed in virtue of the reaction,
C36H48N2O6 + 2C2H3O.OH = 2H2O + C36H40(C2H4O)2N2O6

On evaporating the resulting liquid to dryness on the water-bath, dissolving the residue in water, and adding sodium carbonate, an immediate white precipitate is thrown down, flocculent at first but soon becoming crystalline on standing; by rapid filtration this is separated from unaltered codeine, which is not immediately precipitated in this manner, save in very concentrated solutions. By dissolving the precipitate in dilute hydrochloric acid, and repeating the precipitation by sodium carbonate three of four times, a product is obtained quite free from codeine; the last precipitate is dissolved in ether or hot dilute alcohol, from either of which solvents the new base crystallises in bold, well-defined anhydrous crystals; it can now be recrystallised from benzene, chloroform, and boiling water without change, being readily soluble in all these solvents except water, in which it is only sparingly soluble even when boiling. Diacetyl-codeine forms a well-crystallised hydrochloride somewhat more soluble in water than codeine hydrochloride; when air-dry, the crystals contain C40H46N2O8.2HCl.4H2O. [...]

Attempts to prepare mono-acetylcodeine (1), C36H41(C2H3O)2N2O6, or to isolate it from the products of the action of acetic acid on codeine did not meet with success; it was, however, noticed that a larger portion of the first precipitate thrown down by carbonate of soda was soluble in excess of the precipitant than was the case with subsequent precipitations, whence it is possible that the monoacetylated base is formed together with diacetyl-codeine; hitherto, however, no means of separating it from unaltered codeine have been devised [...]

§ 3. Action of Acetic Acid on Morphine
When morphine is boiled for several hours with twice its weight of glacial acetic acid, and inverted condenser being attached, a large amount is converted into a substance related to morphine in the same manner as diacetyl-codeine is to codeine; by dissolving the product in water, adding ammonia, and shaking up with ether, an ethereal solution is obtained which yields a copious crystalline hydrochloride on shaking with hydrochloric acid; this hydrochloride is but sparingly soluble in cold water, but can be recrystallised from that menstruum when hot without change. The crystals contain C34H36(C2H3O)2N2O6.2HCl.6H2O. [...]
When pure, neither the free base nor its salts give any coloration with ferric chloride; simultaneously with this base, however, there is formed a small quantity of a substance that does colour ferric chloride blue like morphine, but differs therefrom in being soluble in ether and in being precipitated by carbonate of soda in white amorphous flakes, soluble in excess of the precipitant; this substance does not seem to give a crystalline hydrochloride, and is apparently identical with the ß-diacetyl-morphine (2) described in § 5, i.e, is isomeric with the above base, yielding a sparingly soluble crystalline hydrochloride, which is accordingly designated [alpha]-diacetyl-morphine (2).

asaqwert
04-09-2006, 01:02 AM
Will you please stop playing Chemistry expert on these forums and instead go search for the paper(s) evincing the creation of 6-MAM via GAA? Then proceed to research the relative merits of 6-MAM and diamorphine. Please return with a clue, conclusion and possibly concussion. Thank you.

you're a dick buddy, just because one paper written over one hundred years ago says that acetic acid and morphine will create something that is soluble differently than morphine hcl doesn't mean that you can create HEROIN (diacetylmorphine) from GAA and morphine hcl (or base)

i never once talked down to you or told you to piss off, and as a matter of fact, i've more than my fair share of research on this topic, and the only people saying that GAA could do anything to morphine is this paper you speak of, and people who have read/referenced it. i have tried with concentrated vinager, and have spoken with people who have tried with GAA. they have apparently gotten something that is slightly different than morphine, but is in no way stronger as 6-MAM apparently is, rather qutie on par with regular morphine hcl....

regardless, it doesn't even matter, i never did anything to piss you off other than state that i don't believe a certain chemical reaction will progress the same way you think it will, and you give me shit for that? grow up buddy, and you sir, return with a clue, conclusion, and possibly concussion (what the hell does that mean, anyways?). Thank you.

kramorph
04-09-2006, 04:24 AM
Even if any of you actually do manage to make 6-MAM, youll be very disapointed.Heroin is about 4x stronger than morphine due to its greater lipid solubility.ie it penetrates the blood brain barrier, where it is almost instantly converted back into morphine. By just acetylating the phenolic OH, it wouldnt increase its lipid solubility enough(if at all) to penetrate the BBB.So for all your efforts youll end up with less than what you originally had. If ya wanna waste ya morphine, send it to me instead, and put ya vinegar on ya chips.

bogumil
04-10-2006, 04:00 PM
Actually thats not completely correct. Heroin has not really an effect because it doesnt bind to opioid receptors. The cycle is morphine - 3MAM - heroin when it is acetylated and it is heroin - 6MAM - morphine in the body.

Heroin crosses the BBB. Within 2 minutes it is broken down to 6MAM. The 6MAM is broke down in the blood to morphine again. So for about 20 minutes youa are "on 6MAM", so to say ...

Heroin is only a "prodrug". The effects come from the metabolites. 6 MAM is the metabolite with the strongest efficacy/ intrinsic ativity to the m-recptors . So the diacetylmorphine crosses the BBB fast, but it has no effect. The effects come from the 6MAM (btw, when they test you for heroin, they test for 6MAM, the stuff can be found as long as morphine).

So, if one would be able to create 6MAM, one would be very happy... But youre right, it might not be the way to use acetic acid. I dont know though. One should try ... SWIM only has ong time release powder and pills and to make chemical stuff with them wouldnt give really good results.

asaqwert
04-11-2006, 01:01 AM
Actually thats not completely correct. Heroin has not really an effect because it doesnt bind to opioid receptors. The cycle is morphine - 3MAM - heroin when it is acetylated and it is heroin - 6MAM - morphine in the body.

Heroin crosses the BBB. Within 2 minutes it is broken down to 6MAM. The 6MAM is broke down in the blood to morphine again. So for about 20 minutes youa are "on 6MAM", so to say ...

Heroin is only a "prodrug". The effects come from the metabolites. 6 MAM is the metabolite with the strongest efficacy/ intrinsic ativity to the m-recptors . So the diacetylmorphine crosses the BBB fast, but it has no effect. The effects come from the 6MAM (btw, when they test you for heroin, they test for 6MAM, the stuff can be found as long as morphine).

So, if one would be able to create 6MAM, one would be very happy... But youre right, it might not be the way to use acetic acid. I dont know though. One should try ... SWIM only has ong time release powder and pills and to make chemical stuff with them wouldnt give really good results.

actually i wouldn't say that it won't work with your time release pills

swim managed to get some aa and some time release morphine sulphate pills; with a little processing swim has managed to make what is absolutely obviously diamorphine and 6-MAM. there is no doubt in his mind that there is at least 6-MAM but probably both, just from the fact that the process is very similar to the way it is normally made and the fact that AA is involved (it is a strong enough acetylating agent that there will at least be an amount of diamorphine created). i will eventually post the method he uses, but i'm not sure if it'll be that useful because i'm obviously no "chemistry expert". it is funny however, mr. stvip, that the dose has been cut down from 180-200mg iv morphine 2x per day to using 75mg of morphine to create whatever is being made, 2x per day. there are some withdrawels felt for about 2 hours before the dose, but that is dealt with because at this point, there's really no other option.

unfortunatly, since swim's also no chemistry expert, he's unsure how "clean" this substance is, however the liquid is perfectly clear often, but has been (prior to the process being "cleaned up" and somewhat perfected) darker yellowy/opaque/even light brown

anyways, it appears that aa works, however swim has also tried using concentrated vinager, with no change at all whatsoever in the strength. just so y'all know, i'm sure it won't be that usefull though, right stvip?

psychotiKK
04-11-2006, 10:50 PM
My statement earlier about tar being horse shit was not entirely true. The purity of tar is rising to almost as much as powdered dope. I just view tar as being unclean and tainted. Due to the colour and the consitancy and smell. It's made by less experienced chemists and the Colombian and Asian Heroin(s). But their skill is getting better. The purity keeps going up from what i've read. The only thing I have a problem with is that it doesnt seem to be good for veins. That is not a problem, because I don't inject, but It could be causing people alot of harm. From the look of it, it's not very good for your veins. Of course there is no way to know if powder heroin is better for your veins than tar but just from what I see, tar is probably worse. And it's certainly not good for snorting. The only decent way would be smoking it and injecting. I'm not sure about oral black tar but I would be willing to try it. I like oral administration.


I'm not sure which is worse to IV. I shot up black tar and don't regret it. You said, "it's certainly not good for snorting." If you mean that as a health issue, I'm sure it's not great to snort it just like anything else. If you are saying it's not good for snorting because it won't create a high or a good one then you are wrong. I just heat up the tar with some water on a spoon, then snort the liquid when it cools down. I let some of my "drug friends" try it out and they were all nodding off their asses. Everyone enjoyed it. That became our way of doing H. I've smoked black tar many, many, times because I was afraid to do anything else with it. Smoking never did shit to me. Once I snorted it, I got that heroin high everyone talks about. Once I tried to IV it and I quit because it was so incredibly intense, pleasureable, and euphoric that I knew I could get addicted to it fast. I swear when you start shooting up H nothing even compares to you. Sex, love, money, or anything in the world couldn't be any more pleasureable. I could see myself living a junky lifestyle and only caring about my fix. I guess this is one good reason I'm on suboxone.. then again I know for sure I will try heroin again someday, unless I can never find any.. but then I would just find a junkie and score.

superman
04-13-2006, 11:25 PM
"Will you please stop playing Chemistry expert on these forums ..... Please return with a clue, conclusion and possibly concussion."

uhhhmm, stvip, how about YOU stop playing chemistry expert and return with some manners. i see no reason why you can't simply state your disagreement and forget the insults. everybody knows that acetic acid has no place being on morphine, unless you're titrating.

better yet, when your claiming something that goes against common knowledge, why don't you cite a reference that actually supports your argument? feel free to hit the books @ rhodiums archive, it should clear this all up for you.