Lies, Lies, and More Lies

[JimmyJoe]

What is the deal with the state of Maryland. Every few days or so they come out with a new sensationalist article about the evils of heroin use, grossly distorting the information and in some cases just getting it flat wrong. I am not about to say that heroin use is safe. It's not safe. But, it's not a magical substance either that creeps up and eats you alive like the boogieman. Unfortunately, it is hard to stand up and say to the editors of the papers, "you've got it wrong. It's not quite like that. Quit reporting B.S. so people can get the facts and then maybe they can make a better decision and be safer." One cannot write to the newspaper about his or her experiences with the drug or a friend's experiences because this draws undue attention. So you must sit on your hands.

One of the articles, said just trying it once will automatically make you an addict. The same article said that just using the drug a few times permanently changes your brain so you can never be happy again without it. If this were true, then people that were treated with morphine in the hospital would become addicts and never be happy again after being treated with it for pain. That's simply not true.

In the second place, while some people do get carried away with their use and ruin their lives, it is not a given that it must happen that way. Yet, if you say that you can control it, you bring the cops down on you and then you will have problems whether you had them before or not. So, the cases reported in the papers are only the extreme cases, the sensational cases.

Another article out of Maryland instructs parents to look for the following warning signs for heroin use: not being able to sit still, dropping out of activities at school, poor concentration and erratic behavior. Once again, knowing people that have used the drug, I have been told that it actually increases their ability to sit still and concentrate and that they become calmer and less prone to move around. The article didn't mention the things which to me would really indicate heroin use, such as constricted pupils, nodding off or spacing, and getting the flu a lot (ie, during periods of withdrawal). It's as if the reporters don't do their job at all and just report what someone says about the drug -- someone who probably has never even seen it for that matter.

Speaking with people I know that use the drug, they all say the greatest risks come from its being illegal. In the first place, there are dosage control problems since purity changes. There is a lack of information about safe ways to get off such as warnings about not mixing drugs. Also, the prices are a lot higher due to the illegality of the thing, causing more financial problems for users. Dirty needles and contaminated dope lead to infections or death. Getting locked up, places one in the dangerous prison environment along with hardened criminals and makes it hard to find a job on getting out. The gist of the maryland articles is that the state is having a heroin "epidemic." This, because there have been something like 19 deaths, allegedly caused by heroin (though the report doesn't indicate whether the people mixed their drugs -- the most common cause of death) in a state of several million people. There are probably hundreds of people killed each year in that state from unsafe drivers and I'll bet no one is screaming that there's an automobile epidemic. That wouldn't be sensational enough. Of course, the real victims of this ridiculous campaign are the addicts since they became mythical people and are looked at not as humans but as freaks by so-called normal people. People just don't realize that heroin is like alcohol or anything else that is potentially addictive. But there are long-term chippers. I've known a few. When is the news going to report the truth? Do they really think distorting the issue and reporting disinformation is going to save lives? I think not. If they care so damn much they should push for more education and harm reduction instead of trying to do the impossible -- change human nature.

[shaunclo]

Hey JimmyJoe, can you post a link to that article, I would like to read it. It sounds interesting

[JimmyJoe]

Hey JimmyJoe, can you post a link to that article, I would like to read it. It sounds interesting
Here is one of them. I am still looking for the warning signs one that had some truth and a bunch of nonsense:

http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v06/n220/a09.html?192

In this article they quote the "try it once and you're hooked " thing which is not true for everyone by any means. At the bottom of the article it states that use causes permament changes to the brain and that is also completely false. Heroin causes no brain damage, though biochemical changes may be present for as long as six months after the last use, most of these being very subtle. The whole article is full of half-truths and sensationalist stuff. As long as they treat it that way, there can never be any honest talk about the drug one way or the other. It's like the old take one drink and you're an alcoholic stuff which may be true for some but certainly not for everyone. I'll keep looking for the other one to post a link to it. They also don't elaborate on the heroin overdoses they talk about so it is not clear if other drugs were involved, or suicide or whatever.

They also imply that people push heroin on others so they can make money for themselves and buy more, speaking of one case where this was true. This is not how it is where I live. Heroin dealers are very timid types and they don't seek you out, you must seek them out. The whole article creates this impression that heroin is a crisis and therefore shuts off any level-headed debate about the drug. Typical drug war rhetoric. The addicts almost end up dead or in jail the article says. But, they don't mention that most of this is precisely because it is illegal in the first place.

[skeletontea]

Like "Reefer Madness" for a new era. (Btw, I do think there is an automobile epidemic.)

After reading that article, it seems that most of the statements made are quotes from the addicts themselves, not elements penned by the article's author. Straight from the horse's mouth, as it were (to take a tired expression and turn it into an even worse pun.)

[JimmyJoe]

Like "Reefer Madness" for a new era. (Btw, I do think there is an automobile epidemic.)

After reading that article, it seems that most of the statements made are quotes from the addicts themselves, not elements penned by the article's author. Straight from the horse's mouth, as it were (to take a tired expression and turn it into an even worse pun.)

Right, but they only quote from a certain kind of addict -- ie, those that have ruined their lives with the drug. The equivalent would be to only find alcoholics living on the street when they did a piece on alcohol. In my view, they are similar. Just as people can learn to drink responsably, they can use opiates responsably. For instance, when the (I think it was New York Times) paper ran an article about an executive that sort of was a long term chipper and was quite successful, the media in general were up in arms that it was even reported because it didn't show the party line about trying it once and becoming an addict, etc. The guy in the article quit using on his own after he got married.

The article from Maryland is tricky and uses propaganda in a clever way. Maybe the addict interviewed just got arrested or something so he feels compelled to say junk ruined his life. Who knows. But, they only interview addicts who have "ruined their lives due to the drug" and who spout the try it once and die stuff because doctors wouldn't say it -- it hasn't been justified from a scientific standpoint. Otherwise every pain patient treated with morphine would become an addict and the figures show that most do not. The above article tries to mix that in with quotes from doctors to make the whole thing sound scientific as if you are getting the whole story about the drug. But, it just ain't true. I know tons of people that tried heroin once and either didn't like it (got sick) or thought its effects weren't worth the risks. Sir or Lord or whatever he is now Paul McCartney is one famous example. He said he tried it and didn't even like it. So it can't be the drug. It must be that some people just have a tendency to become addicted to things. So, let's quit demonizing the drug and treat it from a scientific and neutral standpoint like alcohol and other things. That's my only point in reading the article. I realize that plenty of people have ruined their lives using it. But I also know people that have used it and haven't ruined their lives (excluding drug war effects like being arrested which has nothing to do with the drug itself).

[DaOxyMan]

i tried it once, was instantly addicted...and it ruined my life...but that article still sucks

[skeletontea]

Right, but they only quote from a certain kind of addict -- ie, those that have ruined their lives with the drug. Yeah, it doesn't surprise me that they are controlled quotes. Readers would probably become irate if there was an impartial article on illicit drug use. Still, from the description given I was expecting an article along the lines of "Shocking true stories of junkie desperation: Babysitter shoots up, then steals tots away to underground Korean baby fighting league, where two crawl in, but only one crawls out!" (Actually an article like that might be good for laughs, maybe I'll write one as a joke).

[poppy]

I am aware that this is a site for opiate lovers rather than a recovery site and nobody loves H more than me but its naive not to acknowldege the fact that it can (and more often than not does) wreck lives.) We all start out thinking we can control H but she's an unpredictable mistress who usually wins outright and controls us. Most of the junkies I know wish they could turn back the clock. I know I do. Unfortunately once u've tasted the fruit so to speak its hard to forget how sweet it is, and its a taste that's damn near impossible to replace.

[alowishus]

"Shocking true stories of junkie desperation: Babysitter shoots up, then steals tots away to underground Korean baby fighting league, where two crawl in, but only one crawls out!" (Actually an article like that might be good for laughs, maybe I'll write one as a joke).

Made me spit my milk on my monitor, now thats funny shit. :D Hell I'm still gigglen' over it.
Thanks I need that, I got laid-off AGAIN today 5th time in 4 years, I try not to be bitter about the fact that India needs to find it OWN fucking job market but.....it's hard.:mad: :mad: :mad:

At least make it up to me by sending me a couple kilo's of opium.

[alowishus]

I am aware that this is a site for opiate lovers rather than a recovery site and nobody loves H more than me but its naive not to acknowldege the fact that it can (and more often than not does) wreck lives.) We all start out thinking we can control H but she's an unpredictable mistress who usually wins outright and controls us. Most of the junkies I know wish they could turn back the clock. I know I do. Unfortunately once u've tasted the fruit so to speak its hard to forget how sweet it is, and its a taste that's damn near impossible to replace.


F@CKING AMEN SISTER!!!!!!












very nicely said.

[diditagain]

AMEN and DITTO to you Poppy!!! I tried it once, it was my weekend mistress for a few months and then BAM! Saturday became sunday became monday and using and scoring were my full time job for 8 years! I got clean and stayed totally abstinent from ANY drugs OR alchohol for 6 months, then got divorced and BAM ! I wanted to get high to ease the emotions so to speak, the very next day i woke up like i had never had a stitch of clean time! It was my full time job again! i kept up that way for 5 months and lost so much more than i ever did before, including my child. I went into rehab and was clean for 9 months, totally abstinent! now ive been using again for over a month. I learned alot from all this clean time and decided a few days ago that im going to nip it in the bud before i go down the sprial so to speak. im starting to taper now, and I dont think im ever going to turn back. This drug has completly and totally destroyed my life. BUT IT FEELS SO FUCKING GOOD! I know if i go back to even one more time i dont think ill make it out alive, I really have to keep believing that, i think its the only thing that will keep me clean.

[ontario_opiophile]

Heroin is not evil or particularly harmful. Street heroin may be harmful because it's not sterile and cut to shit. If the government would just give drug users sterile, pharmaceutical grade heroin powder for injection or snorting and tablets for people who enjoy oral or nasal or "browning", then we wouldn't have nearly as many people dropping dead from overdoses, and there would be a huge decrease in emergency room visits because of reactions to these cutting agents they put in the street heroin. There would be less infections, less od's, a huge decrease in crime, and it would help the addicts and society in general. You can't just sweep the addicts under the rug and ignore them and then turn around and arrest them when they purchase heroin off the street. No one should have to buy smack from some mexican, colombian, afghan, laosian, burmese, pakistani cartel. lol I think thats all of them. haha. To not provide supervised medical treatment with heroin should be a crime. Uncle sam would rather have you destroying your body with contaminated mexican horse shit tar heroin than let you buy it from a pharmaceutical company under the supervision of a doctor. It just sickens me. Most of the damage they describe when rambling on about heroin comes from the lifestyle heroin addicts live. They are forced to commit crimes to pay for their addiction. They have to sneak around and hide their habit and worry about where they will get the money to buy the dope and they have to worry if they will even find dope at all. The mind is preoccupied on drugs when your addicted. The government could be a huge help and provide this medically assisted heroin treatment to addicts and i guarantee that most users lives would be turned around. Sure, problems will still remain but heroin wont be the focus of their every action and they wont be reduced to scum by these opressors. Once they are stable and happy they will be able to focus on finding somehere to live, or getting a job (if they are homeless) they will be able to focus on having a shower and brushing their teeth and eating a good meal because they wont be riding the smack coaster up and down all day long.

The drug that is the biggest threat to our safety is Methamphetamine. Methamphetamine is a fucking plague. I don't mean to offend anyone who uses it but fuck, you should really stop. It is horrible, I know first hand how awful it is. It totally changes your brain forever, it makes you paranoid, psychotic, dillusional, depressed, suicidal, and once you stop you feel all of those things and it may never go away. I know that I have long lasting brain damage from Meth and Ecstacy. Look what it's done to me, i fucking rant 24 hours a day on opiophile.com. Stimulants in general are real mind fuckers. Everyone should stay the fuck away from them. Heroin is no where near as deadly as methamphetamine or ecstacy. MDMA is horrible shit, just as bad as Meth in my opinion. All of those stims are awful, MDA, PMA, Cocaine, Dexedrine, and all of those analogs are trash. Everyone on this site is too good for that shit. The government is just a 24 hour a day propaganda machine. Fuck the maryland government and their stupid scare tactics.

[Tar_Baby]

1) The mainstream media lies to you about almost everything..ie: Kennedy assassination, 9-11 ( google what happened on 9-11 and the shits so deep its hard to wrap your head around
2) That beings said.. some substances when combined with the right(wrong) people will lead you to depravity you never thought possible..
3) I didnt read the article..and wont ( see #1) But if you think heroin is harmless you obviously are smack noob....Street heroin has caused/helped/allowed me to lose all of my veins ( Hell I cant even .hit a vein if I had to now..people cant draw blood from me etc etc)be homeless, sit in prison for almost 5 years, etc etc
and after 15 years of heroin use I can no longer feel like a normal person again even after serveral years clean time = a life on methadone. Abscess after abscess and subsequent trips to the emergency room to have them lanced and drained ( one of the most painful things youll ever feel)
So yeah tell me again heroins harmless...and Ill tell you to keep using for 10 years and then post back to us, noob.

[Tar_Baby]

Heroin is not evil or particularly harmful. Street heroin may be harmful because it's not sterile and cut to shit. If the government would just give drug users sterile, pharmaceutical grade heroin powder for injection or snorting and tablets for people who enjoy oral or nasal or "browning", then we wouldn't have nearly as many people dropping dead from overdoses, and there would be a huge decrease in emergency room visits because of reactions to these cutting agents they put in the street heroin. There would be less infections, less od's, a huge decrease in crime, and it would help the addicts and society in general. You can't just sweep the addicts under the rug and ignore them and then turn around and arrest them when they purchase heroin off the street. No one should have to buy smack from some mexican, colombian, afghan, laosian, burmese, pakistani cartel. lol I think thats all of them. haha. To not provide supervised medical treatment with heroin should be a crime. Uncle sam would rather have you destroying your body with contaminated mexican horse shit tar heroin than let you buy it from a pharmaceutical company under the supervision of a doctor. It just sickens me. Most of the damage they describe when rambling on about heroin comes from the lifestyle heroin addicts live. They are forced to commit crimes to pay for their addiction. They have to sneak around and hide their habit and worry about where they will get the money to buy the dope and they have to worry if they will even find dope at all. The mind is preoccupied on drugs when your addicted. The government could be a huge help and provide this medically assisted heroin treatment to addicts and i guarantee that most users lives would be turned around. Sure, problems will still remain but heroin wont be the focus of their every action and they wont be reduced to scum by these opressors. Once they are stable and happy they will be able to focus on finding somehere to live, or getting a job (if they are homeless) they will be able to focus on having a shower and brushing their teeth and eating a good meal because they wont be riding the smack coaster up and down all day long.

The drug that is the biggest threat to our safety is Methamphetamine. Methamphetamine is a fucking plague. I don't mean to offend anyone who uses it but fuck, you should really stop. It is horrible, I know first hand how awful it is. It totally changes your brain forever, it makes you paranoid, psychotic, dillusional, depressed, suicidal, and once you stop you feel all of those things and it may never go away. I know that I have long lasting brain damage from Meth and Ecstacy. Look what it's done to me, i fucking rant 24 hours a day on opiophile.com. Stimulants in general are real mind fuckers. Everyone should stay the fuck away from them. Heroin is no where near as deadly as methamphetamine or ecstacy. MDMA is horrible shit, just as bad as Meth in my opinion. All of those stims are awful, MDA, PMA, Cocaine, Dexedrine, and all of those analogs are trash. Everyone on this site is too good for that shit. The government is just a 24 hour a day propaganda machine. Fuck the maryland government and their stupid scare tactics.
Heroin maintenance simply wont work because of tolerance..on methadone I can stay at a dose for a year or more without adjustments. Maintaining myself on heroin never worked like that. After a few weeks that same amount of smack always has to be raised ..until eventually Im slamming multiple $100 shots a day.

Totally agree with the meth part..had another 7 month bout with glass/methamps last year after attempting to detox off methadone..the fatique from opiate withdrawals left me open to wanting to be amped up ..( was too depressed and sore to even take a shower)
Anyway by the end of about 7 months I was parachuting and snorting ( NEVER LIKED THE TASTE OF METH SMOKE) a gram a day or so and I was a paranoid skinny burned out fucking nutcase..FInally moved and it took me a few weeks to be able to think straight again..my brain would skip and cloud bad

[shaunclo]

I am aware that this is a site for opiate lovers rather than a recovery site and nobody loves H more than me but its naive not to acknowldege the fact that it can (and more often than not does) wreck lives.) We all start out thinking we can control H but she's an unpredictable mistress who usually wins outright and controls us. Most of the junkies I know wish they could turn back the clock. I know I do. Unfortunately once u've tasted the fruit so to speak its hard to forget how sweet it is, and its a taste that's damn near impossible to replace.

Poppy, you are so fuckin right here, since we all love our Lady H, we just hate to admit to the fact that in 90% of the time.....it does ruin the persons life. I know it did that to me. In fact, every junky I know who has formed a love with H, it has definielty ruined their lives also. There are always exceptions to the rules in everything, but with H...I would have to say that it ruins more lives than it lets go of. That is just the cold hard truth, which I serioulsy hate admitting because I love getting high sooooo fuckin much. I love getting high so much, that I know this isnt the end of it destroying my life. Right now in my present situation I have it under control (with the help of subutex) but that doesnt mean that I dont think about it almost every waking moment of my life. I even dream about it, how fucked up is that. I mean I love fuckin, but my H dreams out-weigh my fuckin dreams by far.

[JimmyJoe]

1) The mainstream media lies to you about almost everything..ie: Kennedy assassination, 9-11 ( google what happened on 9-11 and the shits so deep its hard to wrap your head around
2) That beings said.. some substances when combined with the right(wrong) people will lead you to depravity you never thought possible..
3) I didnt read the article..and wont ( see #1) But if you think heroin is harmless you obviously are smack noob....Street heroin has caused/helped/allowed me to lose all of my veins ( Hell I cant even .hit a vein if I had to now..people cant draw blood from me etc etc)be homeless, sit in prison for almost 5 years, etc etc
and after 15 years of heroin use I can no longer feel like a normal person again even after serveral years clean time = a life on methadone. Abscess after abscess and subsequent trips to the emergency room to have them lanced and drained ( one of the most painful things youll ever feel)
So yeah tell me again heroins harmless...and Ill tell you to keep using for 10 years and then post back to us, noob.

Right, street heroin. That's the point. But in places like Switz. where they have given it to "junkies" they have gotten them back on track and back to working etc. That is my point. The main reason it ruins lives is because of its illegality. So, as I originally stated the article is only telling half truths. And, I won't talk about my personal life, but I do know many long term chippers that have managed to control their habit and lead productive lives. I know when you get street tar, that it could be anywhere from 16 percent to 80 percent pure and that there is dosage problems not to mention all the other shit in there. But, I think this article is blaming more on the drug itself than on its illegal status. Addiction is bad, but it wouldn't necessarily ruin lives if the shit was legal. And you can call me noob and all that other bullshit, but since you don't know a goddamn thing about me, I could care less. Maybe, just maybe there are long term users out there that haven't allowed it to ruin their lives. Have you ever considered that? And, I never said it was harmless. But neither is sex, or alcohol or much of anything else. But at least people are allowed to get safety information about those things. And they can get help when they need it without having to worry about going to jail. That is where the true harm comes into play with H. Screw this site. This is my last post and I won't miss it. You give an unpopular opinion and you get labeled silly names like noob by self-proclaimed experts that don't know shit about you. It's funny how when it was legal in the early 1900's there were alot of addicts but people weren't dying from it. So you tell me, is it just the drug, or could it also have something to do with its being illegal. Give me a break. That was point. Not that H was harmless -- I certainly know that. Some people think about sex or gambling or alcohol all the time too. And that don't mean they are crazy or need to be locked up. Maybe they should be locked up just like heroin users so we can spread the suffering around even more than it already is. Nobody wanted to lock up slick willy for his sex addiction (though there was a question about his lying). It would have been absurd. So why do only people addicted to drugs and not other things get locked up? Because of all these stupid myths dreamt up by the drug warriors. If methadone was made in street labs and people were treated for addiction to it with heroin in clinics, there would be just as many dying from the street methadone.

By the way, I know how dangerous it is. My cousin died of an H overdose in his home in a little West Texas town when you were probably still in diapers -- and it was just as illegal and therefore unsafe as it is now. My aunt thought maybe the drug dealer had done something to the drugs because he had been trying to clean himself up. I think he just slipped and made a mistake and od'ed after having been clean for a while. People cannot even distinguish between the dangers of the drug and the dangers from its being illegal. And, the DEA has been caught distorting death stats, leading to more od's because people are not aware what truly causes them. If you look on the DPA site, they have an article about how the DEA grossly distorted deaths from oxycontin and when the medical experts looked into it, they found that in something like 80 percent of the cases, it was from mixing drugs. How eager is the government to spread this info so addicts can protect themselves? They don't care. They want more deaths so they can justify their stupid little drug war.

When someone is a sex addict, they tell you to use condomns and give out free safety information to protect you from diseases. If someone is a drinker they tell you to get a designated driver and in the city where I live you can get one for from the city. If you drive a car, they put seatbelts and airbags in them to protect you. But, when it comes to drugs, it's always well they're just plain evil and if you do them you are stupid and deserve to die. And to prove the point, the government tries to make them as unsafe as possible unlike other dangerous activities. Then, they use these sob stories in the news to justify continuing the status quo which is precisely what has made drug use unsafe to begin with. I guarantee you that if they legalized opiates there would be a few more addicts but a lot less deaths. And, people would probably be sitting in opium dens instead of taking their chances with needles and heroin. These stories always blame the drug because they simply cannot admit that it was their policies that have led to the deaths through disinformation and unregulated drugs. Who is it that has tried to block making naxolene available for addict? The drug warriors. Heroin isn't safe but it wouldn't be nearly as harmful if it was legal and regulated like other dangerous and potentially addictive activities. How that point got twisted into heroin is harmless is beyond me. But I stand by my claim that its illegality has made it ten or twenty times more harmful than it would be otherwise in terms of safety and setting aside for a minute the fact that addiction to anything causes problems such as dwelling on whatever the person is addicted to, etc. But, just like the mainstream media, you suggest that I'm a noob without knowing me (perhaps I've got it wrong and you are responding to another post), twist what I have said and then resort to childish namecalling. If you read my original post you will see that I stated that it is not safe and that it is NOT harmless. But just because every long term user doesn't wind up with their life ruined or on the street (and I know more than a few people that have winded up homeless pursuing their habit) doesn't mean that their point of view is stupid and that they deserve to be called names.

Opiate lovers tend to lose their objectivity because their addiction is of course often hellish. But, it is also that way for people addicted to alcohol, gambling, or sex. It is not necessarily the drug, but our imperfect human natures that causes us to act that way. But even so, I'd take a world full of imperfect human beings anyday over a society of robots that are only allowed to make the "right" choice and being punished when they make the wrong choice. Even though alcohol addiction or sex addiction can be every bit as hellish as H addiction, these other groups aren't persecuted. They are treated like human beings and not like freaks. The article that I posted above is just one more example of the propaganda that perpetuates distinguishing H users from other addicts. They create the impression not just that H is harmful (which would be fine with me) but that it is demonic and that anyone who has used it must be some kind of mentally ill freak. That is the point I take issue with because until we look at the thing objectively we can never go about the business of saving the lives of H users and take an honest look at whether prohibition has really done any good or not. The media only appeals to emotions in the drug war and they never stop to consider, that despite their so-called best intentions they are only making things worse. Yes, H addiction is hellish. But so is every other kind of serious addiction. It is a medical or personal issue not a penal issue. But, by demonizing the drug, they trick people into supporting the drug war. How could we even consider making it legal or institute harm reduction and safer heroin use they say? That stuff is demonic and takes over your body like satan. That is the message they want to present. And I think it is overblown unless they are also willing to concede the same for alcohol, sex and gambling and then prohibit and persecute people that abuse those things.
I'm not very articulate and I apologize for that and my wordiness (I do my thinking in a language other than english so it is hard to put my ideas down succinctly sometimes). I guess what I'm getting at and apparently not saying very well is that I realize H is not safe, but I don't see why H and H users have to be singled out as a special group that is somehow worse or more abnormal than everyone else (alcohol users, gamblers, porn addicts or whatever) and therefore deserves to be persecuted instead of being afforded governmental protection through safety regulations, harm reduction, and education like everyone else? Why is it always assumed that the drug is somehow magical and that addicts cannot live productive lives and that all users must end up in the same place? The answer I think has much more to do with the drug war than with the drug itself. Alcohol users get warnings and in my city free designated drivers. Smokers get warnings about the dangers and filtered cigarettes. Heroin users are purposely kept ignorant of the danger of mixing drugs and then thrown into jail where they could be raped or murdered. Why the difference? Because of the drug war histeria and the lie that heroin addiction is somehow so much different from other addictions. People have died from withdrawal to alcohol. That' rare with H, though you feel like shit and your legs won't let you get a moment's sleep. So why aren't alcoholics persecuted and why isn't alcohol protrayed as some kind of demon drug that takes you over like devil possession? How many sob stories do you see in the papers trying to convince you that the alcohol is demonic and that people that use it must be messed brain-damaged freaks. I mean, the doctor in that article was flatout lying. It does not cause permanent brain damage. Alcohol and meth do. I've read several reports saying that H only affects a small area of the brain and that the chemical changes generally only last six months after the last use. Alcohol on the other hand causes permanent scarring of the brain in heavy sustained use. Why ain't it demonized? Because they have no interest in making it illegal -- that's why. And I know people that have used ten years and are still chippers because they limit their use in a very disciplined way so it is possible. But like with alcohol if you have an addictive personality then it is indeed dangerous stuff and it's probably best to avoid it. Anyway, the media image of it as some demonic forbidden thing appeals to precisely those people that probably shouldn't touch it -- the risk takers, the ones that want to do the forbidden thing whatever it happens to be at the moment. That was the only point I was trying to make.

[lukilu]

Hey Jimmy Joe , No Need to take off . Dont sweat the name calling . I really appreciated your post you just left , We need your exsperience around here ! Alot of times people have strong opinions because like you said they are sick or hurting , ever listen in on a NA meeting -wouldnt want them making policy either ! Stick around- consider the source. Lukilu

[JimmyJoe]

Hey Jimmy Joe , No Need to take off . Dont sweat the name calling . I really appreciated your post you just left , We need your exsperience around here ! Alot of times people have strong opinions because like you said they are sick or hurting , ever listen in on a NA meeting -wouldnt want them making policy either ! Stick around- consider the source. Lukilu

I'll still read other posts on the site from time to time but I'm not posting anymore. Anyways, I've said pretty much all I have to say, albeit in a "wordy" manner. I'm glad you liked the post. Take care.

[devilsdrug]

tar man is pretty much right on the $ on this one

[skeletontea]

The drug that is the biggest threat to our safety is Methamphetamine. Methamphetamine is a fucking plague. I don't mean to offend anyone who uses it but fuck, you should really stop. It is horrible, I know first hand how awful it is. It totally changes your brain forever, it makes you paranoid, psychotic, dillusional, depressed, suicidal, and once you stop you feel all of those things and it may never go away.
I did amphetamines daily for about 3 months, and snorted meth a few times (rather than smoking, because tar_baby is absolutely right, it tastes like shit.) Several months after I quit I began having symptoms which mimicked Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome (which fortunately haven't occurred in nearly 6 months.) However now I am very caffeine sensitive, and a cup of green tea and a chocolate bar is enough to send me into overdose symptoms, which I normally would have to drink a pot or two of black coffee to experience so severely.

Honestly I'm not a big fan of stimulants, but I have abused them heavily sometimes during finals. Once I had a rather large project, so I worked 108 hours straight with no breaks, or food, just speed. On the second to last day I had the impression that a dark sorcerer was constantly trying to open a portal behind my head to pull me into another dimension, but every time I looked over my shoulder to see him, he would close the portal and vanish (then immediately begin opening another portal behind my head in the new position). I got the impression that he wore a dark purple crushed velvet robe.

I think all amphetamines are pretty awful, and it's shocking that we give them to children with developing hearts and minds on a daily basis, just because they may be hyperactive, or have trouble paying attention.

[skeletontea]

Accidental double post, sorry.

[JimmyJoe]

tar man is pretty much right on the $ on this one

Not when he calls someone a noob without knowing them and then falsely says they said heroin is harmless. I never said that or anything close to it. So unless he was referring to another poster (he didn't specify) he is way off the money since he grossly misquoted me if you took time to read the original post which obviously you did not (and which is typical of the intolerance for other opinions I have seen here). That's why I don't care to post here anymore because certain people claim to be the experts and then if someone has a different experience or opinion they are tarred and feathered. Tar man should get a job with the DEA since his line is pretty much the same one that the most devoted drug warriors have been using for years. If I am wrong for saying that heroin is ten times more dangerous because it is illegal, I would like to see the facts to prove me wrong. Most problems with it (aside from its addictive properties) are associated with tainted street drugs, the threat of arrest, and lack of info about the dangers of mixing drugs -- all having to do with its illegality and the drug war. I further claim that it is not some demon drug and that even though opiate lovers are biased because of their own addiction, addiction to heroin is oftentimes no worse than addiction to alcohol or other things. In fact, in hardcare alcoholics the withdrawal is much more dangerous. And I maintain that I have known people that have managed to stay chippers for years so that not everyone that uses H becomes an addict. Those were my points. I never said heroin is harmless. Not much of anything is.

That standard horror story stuff of course makes me suspicious anyway. I have seen guys get abcesses and infections and shit, but they are not as common as he makes it sound. There's a guy that stays down the street from me that shoots up everyday and he's only had a couple of abcesses after using for about 5 1/2 years (and who I have been trying to convince to quit or get help precisely because it is dangerous -- mainly because of its illegality in my opinion). But there again, it is likely he got the abcesses because he got hold of some bad dope or bad equipment since he don't reuse the cottons (all of which has to do with its being illegal). And he never switches his method of ingestion. But, the point is that calling people names when they refute the standard line without even knowing the person makes me wonder what the hell is going on. Is this a site where only one opinion is allowed? I think not -- but I could be wrong. I don't think H is harmless and I wouldn't recommend it for anyone. But there is no need to portray it as a kind of demon drug either that is somehow worse than anything else. That kind of shit only serves the drug war and hurts the user. Maybe he just wants to draw me out or something by insulting me but I ain't gonna talk about my personal life on a public site -- for all I know he's a cop trying to build a file on people or something --not that I have anything to hide but my personal life ain't for the whole world (and I'm not accusing just stating the possibility). But as long as people get called names like "noob" and get misquoted I see no chance for honest debate or even a reason to post. When someone posts something like its okay to take 9 grams of tylenol a day (which can screw your liver or kill you quick) they don't get called names and nobody calls them a "noob." But if someone refutes the standard line that heroin is a "devil's drug" and could never be made safer by legalizing it (I think it could be made much safer by legalizing it), people are all over you because that would be to admit that the drug war is a failure and a waste of money and is built around a bunch of myths. So they start the name-calling and say that if you think H should be legal you're saying its harmless (nobody is accused of saying alcohol is harmless because they think it should be legal).

[satori]

i tried it once, was instantly addicted...and it ruined my life...but that article still sucks

You didnt become instnatly addicted. You became addicted after you kept doing it then didnt stop. However explaining one way or another is over simplification. And as far as reuining your life.... thats subjective. Theres no single way a life is suposed to be lived or how it is suposed to be lived. Your life ended up the way it did because that was what was suposed to happen. I dont know what has happend in your life but one Injection doesnt help you become addicted, its always the next one that will.

[JimmyJoe]

You didnt become instnatly addicted. You became addicted after you kept doing it then didnt stop. However explaining one way or another is over simplification. And as far as reuining your life.... thats subjective. Theres no single way a life is suposed to be lived or how it is suposed to be lived. Your life ended up the way it did because that was what was suposed to happen. I dont know what has happend in your life but one Injection doesnt help you become addicted, its always the next one that will.

You're right on the money. I knew a guy that used H and admitted the first couple of times it made him sick and he hated it. I asked him, "why did you keep using it then?" Because I got addicted after the first time he told me. I said how could that be if you hated it the first few times you tried it? He said, "Well the shit is addictive, everyone knows that" or something to that effect. So, it was almost like he was determined to make himself an addict because he believed in his mind that everyone that tries it becomes an addict. In his case at least, I think he himself had more to do with becoming addicted than the drug b/c he had already made up his mind he would. It was almost like that was what attracted him to it. In all fairness, I have known people that fell in love with it the first time and didn't experience the nausea and got addicted pretty quick because they liked the rush. So they kept it up and true physical addiction soon followed. But, I'm not sure about that try it once and you're addicted stuff. I've known too many that have tried it once or twice and never touched it again. In fact, I've known several that tried it and were disappointed with the "high" and told me they preferred pot to that anyday.

[hovadagod]

You guys don't understand addiction. You don't get physically addicted the first time but you lose the ability to say no the next time it's around. You want that feeling. Addicts are addicts and if you're not an addict it's hard to understand.

[JimmyJoe]

You guys don't understand addiction. You don't get physically addicted the first time but you lose the ability to say no the next time it's around. You want that feeling. Addicts are addicts and if you're not an addict it's hard to understand.

Right, but that is the psychological part of addiction. Or some would say lack of will power to resist the feeling. But physical addiction is impossible the first time. You don't have withdrawals and all that. But I agree that the feeling of peace and contentment is so strong that is very hard for some to resist. The difference between those that become addicted and those that do not is that the ones that don't are able to resist the temptation to take it too much by reminding themselves they'll build up a tolerance, develop a habit and eventually lose the feeling it creates. I agree with the idea of physical addiction after the body starts to change and you have withdrawal. But, I think "losing the ability to resist" is kind of a willpower thing. And, it's not the drug because some people have that same problem with alcohol or gambling or whatever. Someone might feel extreme joy the first time they gamble and then decide to make it a habit. There's nothing unique about the heroin experience in that regard until you get to the physical addiction stage. And, I can assure I understand addiction. It is hard to resist the pleasant effects of opiates but it can be done through extreme willpower. But frankly, I don't understand why opiates should be kept illegal for all people, making them unsafe and extremely dangerous as street drugs, when only some people actually get addicted to them. In fact, most pain patients don't get addicted to them and yet they are essentially being punished because some people do get addicted and the feds have made it harder for everyone to get the meds. The fact that I personally know people that have used them and aren't addicted proves to me that it isn't necessarily the drug that makes the person become addicted, it's something within the person. And, like I said, opiates aren't unique in that regard since people become addicted to all sorts of things and suffer just as much as opiate addicts and yet those other things are legal. Makes no sense to me why drugs are kept illegal and therefore more dangerous when they could be regulated and the revenues generated used to treat those that develop a problem with them.

[pointed]

What is the deal with the state of Maryland. Every few days or so they come out with a new sensationalist article about the evils of heroin use, grossly distorting the information and in some cases just getting it flat wrong. I am not about to say that heroin use is safe. It's not safe. But, it's not a magical substance either that creeps up and eats you alive like the boogieman. Unfortunately, it is hard to stand up and say to the editors of the papers, "you've got it wrong. It's not quite like that. Quit reporting B.S. so people can get the facts and then maybe they can make a better decision and be safer." One cannot write to the newspaper about his or her experiences with the drug or a friend's experiences because this draws undue attention. So you must sit on your hands.

One of the articles, said just trying it once will automatically make you an addict. The same article said that just using the drug a few times permanently changes your brain so you can never be happy again without it. If this were true, then people that were treated with morphine in the hospital would become addicts and never be happy again after being treated with it for pain. That's simply not true.

In the second place, while some people do get carried away with their use and ruin their lives, it is not a given that it must happen that way. Yet, if you say that you can control it, you bring the cops down on you and then you will have problems whether you had them before or not. So, the cases reported in the papers are only the extreme cases, the sensational cases.

Another article out of Maryland instructs parents to look for the following warning signs for heroin use: not being able to sit still, dropping out of activities at school, poor concentration and erratic behavior. Once again, knowing people that have used the drug, I have been told that it actually increases their ability to sit still and concentrate and that they become calmer and less prone to move around. The article didn't mention the things which to me would really indicate heroin use, such as constricted pupils, nodding off or spacing, and getting the flu a lot (ie, during periods of withdrawal). It's as if the reporters don't do their job at all and just report what someone says about the drug -- someone who probably has never even seen it for that matter.

Speaking with people I know that use the drug, they all say the greatest risks come from its being illegal. In the first place, there are dosage control problems since purity changes. There is a lack of information about safe ways to get off such as warnings about not mixing drugs. Also, the prices are a lot higher due to the illegality of the thing, causing more financial problems for users. Dirty needles and contaminated dope lead to infections or death. Getting locked up, places one in the dangerous prison environment along with hardened criminals and makes it hard to find a job on getting out. The gist of the maryland articles is that the state is having a heroin "epidemic." This, because there have been something like 19 deaths, allegedly caused by heroin (though the report doesn't indicate whether the people mixed their drugs -- the most common cause of death) in a state of several million people. There are probably hundreds of people killed each year in that state from unsafe drivers and I'll bet no one is screaming that there's an automobile epidemic. That wouldn't be sensational enough. Of course, the real victims of this ridiculous campaign are the addicts since they became mythical people and are looked at not as humans but as freaks by so-called normal people. People just don't realize that heroin is like alcohol or anything else that is potentially addictive. But there are long-term chippers. I've known a few. When is the news going to report the truth? Do they really think distorting the issue and reporting disinformation is going to save lives? I think not. If they care so damn much they should push for more education and harm reduction instead of trying to do the impossible -- change human nature.

Ah, Maryland. That lovely little state has gone to hell in a handbasket by all accounts. The problem isn't Maryand, per se. The "problem" is the proximity to Philly. Really, really good dope in Philly! And now that good old Maryland has turned into a police state, most self-respecting junkies are seeking greener pastures...Can you blame them??

Education and harm reduction? Wow, you some kind of idealist?? lol Doing things the practical way is not precisely consonant with current political policies....Sadly (for us), an efficient government (is that an oxymoron???) doesn't require much in the way of controls. Far be it from anyone to suggest that saving lives and minimizing damage to upstanding (sic) citizens of our fair country is a good way to operate. And who are we to stand in the way of the selection process? That's the Shrub's bailiwick...lol....I think the desire for dope is THE stunning statement of the APEX of human nature. Nobody does heroin who doesn't want things to be better, feel better. Ya know? It isn't "human nature" that needs to be changed; its group nature. When will they ever learn????!!!

Best,

Kate

[pointed]

I am aware that this is a site for opiate lovers rather than a recovery site and nobody loves H more than me but its naive not to acknowldege the fact that it can (and more often than not does) wreck lives.) We all start out thinking we can control H but she's an unpredictable mistress who usually wins outright and controls us. Most of the junkies I know wish they could turn back the clock. I know I do. Unfortunately once u've tasted the fruit so to speak its hard to forget how sweet it is, and its a taste that's damn near impossible to replace.

Oh, god....That is so true....Is there life after heroin?? I'm seriously beginning to doubt without 'done reassurance....

Best,

Kate

[JimmyJoe]

I am aware that this is a site for opiate lovers rather than a recovery site and nobody loves H more than me but its naive not to acknowldege the fact that it can (and more often than not does) wreck lives.) We all start out thinking we can control H but she's an unpredictable mistress who usually wins outright and controls us. Most of the junkies I know wish they could turn back the clock. I know I do. Unfortunately once u've tasted the fruit so to speak its hard to forget how sweet it is, and its a taste that's damn near impossible to replace.

Oh, god....That is so true....Is there life after heroin?? I'm seriously beginning to doubt without 'done reassurance....

Best,

Kate


It's a mistress just like cigarettes, alcohol, gambling or so many other things. There's nothing so special about H that it deserves to be mythologized. Sure people screw themselves up with it. But the government's drug war ensures that even more people will be screwed up with it. I live in New Mexico and the place where I live is practically a nightmarish gangland hellhole. People have bars on their windows and doors and shit -- and the drugs flow like there's no tomorrow. This nonsense about making drugs illegal has just made things ten times worse because it leads to organized crime and the death of innocent people that have nothing to do with it. Based on the experience with users I know (and not commenting on my own life one way or the other), it is something that can control you only if you let it. The drug don't shoot itself in. I know the withdrawals are a bitch and the legs that won't let you sleep and all that if your physically addicted, but the mental part just takes discipline and reprogramming your brain to think on other stuff. That's how I quit smoking for five years and then picked it back up again and am in the process of requitting.

[Zoop]

I did amphetamines daily for about 3 months, and snorted meth a few times (rather than smoking, because tar_baby is absolutely right, it tastes like shit.) Several months after I quit I began having symptoms which mimicked Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome (which fortunately haven't occurred in nearly 6 months.) However now I am very caffeine sensitive, and a cup of green tea and a chocolate bar is enough to send me into overdose symptoms, which I normally would have to drink a pot or two of black coffee to experience so severely.

Honestly I'm not a big fan of stimulants, but I have abused them heavily sometimes during finals. Once I had a rather large project, so I worked 108 hours straight with no breaks, or food, just speed. On the second to last day I had the impression that a dark sorcerer was constantly trying to open a portal behind my head to pull me into another dimension, but every time I looked over my shoulder to see him, he would close the portal and vanish (then immediately begin opening another portal behind my head in the new position). I got the impression that he wore a dark purple crushed velvet robe.

I think all amphetamines are pretty awful, and it's shocking that we give them to children with developing hearts and minds on a daily basis, just because they may be hyperactive, or have trouble paying attention.

I have abused the shit out of stimulants - ritalin, dexedrine and desoxyn are my faves.

Wow, I am late coming in on this thread, but shit! People got some 'pinions on dis one. NO? I agree with a lot of what's been said. 'specially Ontario's assessment of the greatest great to public safety as far as drugs go - it's methamphetamine, secon only to coke. Those two, I believe, and have said before, should stay illegal. with opiates now, I think they should be in a class of drug that you can buy if you like sign for it or something, and the drugstore keeps track of how much you buy, and there is a (generous) limit to how much per week or month. The gov. shouldn't monitor individual sales to people, just monitor how much gets sent to each distribution site (I guess that would be a pharmacy, the DEA does this now with ordering all controlled substances and distribution to pharmacies). So, people should be able to get heroin or other strong opies, and clean works, but I don't think they should give it out for free - of course if it was legal, it would be a mere fraction of what it costs now. If you're already on welfare or unemployment and you decide to spend some or all of your benefit check on legal, government approved dope instead of food, then that's your problem and don't come cryin' to me when you are starving (but high). Maybe for the really really bad off people, there could be vouchers for buying limited quantities of certain drugs, like only buprenorphine, just to keep them from being sick in WD's. A lot of drugs that are controlled substances right now should be legal to buy, with certain restrictions. Benzo's, certain stimulants, like these C-III and C-IV diet pills out now (meridia, phentermine, bontril, et cetera), some weak barbiturate preparations (like fiorinal and phrenlin), opiates (like I said before), and of course , marijuana, oh, and alcohol should stay legal too. Pharmacies could take over the distribution of these substances ('cept of course the booze).

As far as the gross exaggeration that the state of Maryland does with respect to heroin use and "try it one time and you're addicted." That's generally fucking false! But, that being said, I tried opiates for the first time - it was oxycodone actually - back about 20 years ago, and the first time I did it, I vowed that I would do it as much as possible from then on. That started a very long process of addiction that is only now, in the last four years, kind of under control, with the help of 12-step programs, and now with buprenorphine and zoloft!

So, yeah, there is a lot of distortion and the people who do that shit fucking suck and also heroin use can be terribly destructive, as JimmJoe points out - his relative died from an OD.

Also, shit, does anyone think for a second that the black market underground trade in drugs is going to just disappear if we decriminalize possession of narcotics. No! It will definitely decrease, but it will be with us and we'll still see dealers getting shot for dope deals and everything. The motivation to sell dope illegally will be because of tax evasion. The gov. would certainly place some taxes on the sale of narcotics, just like alcohol (they did back in the early 1900's when dope was legal, so I am sure they would again).

Nobody needs to get up in arms and take off in a huff and never come back; this type of discussion is totally the best thing about this forum. We disagree on a lot of topics, but we all agree on at least one thing, opiates are awesome and we love the way they make us feel. We are more alike than different, and as addicts, (I guess most of us would call ourselves addicts), we are an onery lot! So, errybuddy jus' cheel, 'ite?