So I fessed up to the old lady...

[limitless_euphoria]

Well, as you guys know I've kept it no secret that I've been having problems lately. My wife has been aware something hasn't been right for quite some time so finally it was "lay your cards on the table time."

She basically told me, "Listen, things will be a LOT easier on you if you just tell me what's up versus if I have to catch you or find out on my own."

So, alas, I finally came clean; I didn't tell every little gory detail but she knows enough. She just wants me to stop; she doesn't care what it is I have to do, I just need to kick... no two ways about it.

The sad part: the devil inside says "Why did you tell her? You know this whole wanting to kick thing will last a few weeks then you'll inevitably want to get high again then it will be that much harder!"
While the angel on my shoulder says, "Finally, you can be rid of the guilt... you can be a good husband, a good father, a decent human being... and stop pissing money and your life away."

One thing I have NOT shared with you guys that I will now. I've since graduated to the needle. I'll admit, I read all the caveats on this site about doing it, but after reading about how every intranasal user, once trying the needle, regretted every bag he/she snorted curiosity killed the cat. And yes, what a huge difference. My concern: it's going to make it even a harder kick.

It's not like I have a street source for bupe; I really, really, really wish I did. I can find just about anything else in the world, 'cept for that. I'm afraid to go to a doctor because of the damn insurance. Bupe is expensive and between my wife and I we require so many other medications I don't want to hit the limit and then have to pay for everything out of pocket. What's more, once I have bupe on my record I can probably kiss ever being treated for legit pain goodbye forever. That's what I'm truly afraid of.

I know there are hospitals that do detoxes and right now if I could JUST get a medical detox I would be happier than a pig in shit. Call me a pussy because I know so many of you have just done it C/T but I just don't have it in me right now. I need to quit, I need help, but I don't know what the fuck to do.

I'm technically in PM with the signed contract and I do have legit problems as many of you know but if I were to go to a hospital I usually do NOT go to for a detox could the PM find out and kick my ass out??? All they do is give me shitty 5 mg vicodin and it's never done much for my pain because I LONG AGO ruined my ability to be relieved by weak opiates like that. Since my last injection at my PM place my back has been okay but every time I try to kick it HURTS like a mother fucker. I'm at a loss to tell if it's due to kicking or if the pain has been there but my self medication has masked it.

I could just use some advice. I'm thinking about getting medically detoxed and then getting into some kind of outpatient program and if I lose my PM I lose it. I've got to look at the bigger picture. The irony is: what made me turn back to self medicating was the fact that all the docs were giving me the run around and I felt like all hope was lost. I felt as though it was a great injustice that I should have to experience pain that interfered with my life because pussy doctors are afraid of the DEA. Well whatever, every junky makes up their own backstory about why and how but it is what it is... an addiction.

There is no chipping: you're in or you're out. I want to be out but I'm even scared to kick; I have NOTHING whatsoever with which to help me. All the times I had come across Ms Contins and shit like that which I COULD have used to taper off I did 'em like an asshole. Oh well... any advice is welcome.

If I do disappear for a few days perhaps I might actually go get medically detoxed. I'm on the fence right now.

[Dan Steely]

We'll you're committed now aren't ya?, having told the wife and all. The standard 1/3 dose drop every three days taper has worked for me. It's no picnic but you will be able to function as you work your way down. Good luck man. Try not to despair as you are doing something good for yourself and your family.

[samsong]

Have you ever tried or used pods? I find them hihgoy effective at keeping w/ds away while not getting me high (wish they did as I am not trying to kick), but given your insurance/PM/ situation and lack of bupe available, pods may work well for you. They are long lasting like methadone, so you may in fact end up hooked on pods, but I have been able in the past to take a decent fent and oxy habit down to 2 pods a day and maintained on that for weeks. Could have gone down to 1 pods if I wanted to.

Anyway, at least they are relatively cheap and no hassle at all to order them online and start using them instead of dope or pills.

[reddragon3668]

Man, I feel for you, I really do. The mine field of addiction and chronic pain can be extremely difficult to navigate. Its the biggest catch 22 I have ever faced.

The most important thing you have to do right now is to think rationally and not do anything in haste. I am not sure how old you are, but I think your fairly young. You have a spine condition that is degenerative; it is not likely to get better.

As I am sure you are well aware, chronic back pain can affect your entire life. I am a husband and father. My back condition has deterioated to the point that without the aid of pain medication, I am completely incapable of functioning. I can't work, can't play with my children, can't have intimate relations with my wife; hell, I can't even get out of bed without the relief gained from the use of pain medication.

I hope you never get into this situation, but you have to be realistic and realize that it is possible. And, consequently, one of the most dangerous threats to your future is being labeled an "addict." If that happened to me, it would essentially be the end of my life.

Unfortunately, I've come to understand that chronic pain is constant. Relationships change, come and go, jobs change, children grow up, but pain is a constant in my life. I know that it will be a constant companion, barring some sort of miracle, for the rest of my life.

I say all this to say that no matter what is going on in your life right now, you do have to prepare for all the possibilities. And, I would think that anything with the potential of restricting your access to pain meds in the future is not an option. I know its hard sometimes to not live past the moment, or see the future because the situation in the now sucks so bad, but your not going to die tomorrow (we hope) and you need to find a way to deal with the present without burning bridges that you may desperately need in the future.

Please be careful. I know that withdrawals suck. We all know that. It won't suck nonetheless whether you do it cold turkey or take the medical route. But, cold turkey doesn't carry with it the the scarlet "A." This is just a suggestion, but maybe you can take a week off of work and enlist your wife's help to deal with it. Once that week is past, you would be past the worse of the physical WD's. Afterwards, you could have your wife help you span the addition/chronic pain divide. It won't be easy, but it will help provide for your future need for pain management.

I wish you the best. You will be in my thoughts and prayers. I do hope it all works out for you!

[upstate_007]

Sorry to hear about all that LE. I think red said it all as to what would be the best course.

You have CP issues and you don't want a reactionary decision made now to fuck you over in the future. A clod turkey kick is not fun, but it is possible and almost all of us have done it one or more times. Keeping detox and/or maintenance drugs off your record is the best way to go.

What about a self imposed taper down to zero? That would probably be the best route to take. Limited sickness, no medical involvement and if you explain it right the wife would probably understand.

Either way, I wish you the best of luck man. It aint going to be easy, but you can make it through this.

[Raz]

I think the above method is the best...

For added trust wiv the missus, maybe she could help you taper, med dosin times etc and how much you need.Obviously you choose the amounts.But i think this is the best route.
And in my limited ex wiv Dr's and files etc i know you will be worse off later in life if your labled "Addict".Dont go down that road if you can help it...
This is one of the times you find out who your friends are..I wish you well LE, hope it works for you.

I too have drug issues, and need to address them.Dont give up mate, you can get there.And at least its all out in the open....Wishin you well in the oncomin battle.Addiction is the war...

[pain-pateint]

How about seeing a pain doctor like mine, who is both board certified in pain medicine and Addiction Medicine. I know he treats patients with pain meds who have sometimes quite severe histories of addiction/abuse. Seeing someone like him would only get you labeled a "chronic pain patient with a history of prescription (opioid) drug misuse/abuse/non-compliance". I know with those type of patients, though, that he prefers to Rx only "undefeatable" time release meds like Opana and the like and to avoid B/T meds if at all possible. He also uses Bupe as a "reset" button when legit pain patients need real high doses of opioids, like as in too many as intolerable side effects occur, so that they can go back to lower doses.

If you have pain issues, this may be better than going to "Bupe shop" with all the crap counseling, etc., and worst of all that "addict" label.

If interested let me know because even if you don't live near here, they might be able to recommend someone with similar credentials/interests to treat you where you live.

Best of luck,

M

[limitless_euphoria]

You guys gave me some really thoughtful insight to think about. What I did was I called back my old bupe Dr. and got 4 8 mg subs to help me for the next couple of days. I tried to have it so it would not run through the health insurance but my wife did not know the pharm. she went to already had a copy of my ins. card. Oh well. It was like $25. I am feeling functional. At least I don't feel unsure of which end to aim at the can (ass or face). I actually ate a grilled chicken salad from Mickey D's tonight and it was okay. I finally expelled days of built up # 2 in me from using so heavily.

I can still get the vics but while on subs it won't matter. What I would like to do is become opiate free so when the pain is bad the hydrocodone will do its job. I just need to lower my tolerance as I quickly become a pig. If I let myself I could do 2-3g a day... and I'm talking NY diesel uncut. Guess that's a blessing/curse of being from New England. New York is not too far away.

My biggest problem is: my will is strong NOW. But LATER, who is to say I won't get in some lame fight with the wife, something or someone won't piss me off, or the good old fashioned jones won't rear its ugly head? I'm sure it will. If I do get any more bupe I will pay for it out of pocket so the insurance wont' flag it. I want to try to utilize it for the next week and taper down to nothing. I took 16 mg tonight and I plan on taking another 16 mg tomorrow. Then maybe I'll do the whole cut the dosage by 1/3 every 4th day deal. I like that plan. Right now my legs and back are killing the fuck out of me. Luckily I found in my goodie jar a 2 50 mg trams (to take on top of the subs) and I took an Aleve too (for some of the body aches).

I still plan on sticking around rain or shine. I really like this site; it's been a blessing and a curse. I mean, I don't lay blame on ANYONE but I must be honest hearing the ancedotes of those who shoot H vs. sniff... curiosity decapitated my fucking cat. Shooting lays waste to sniffing but MAN is it harder to get off the shit. Now I understand Megadeth's song about "seeing the man use the needle and seeing the needle use the man."

Oh well, off to go shake my restless legs and try and forget about life for a while. Man I could go for a big fat bong hit right now. But oh yeah, I might get a UA early next month. Not a good plan; what's more that's just switch hitting. I need to get away from that shit.

[Princess]

Good luck to you L/E.

I won't pretend I know what to say... but I do agree with Red & Raz. You've got a tough road ahead of you. I wish you the best of luck.

[Andrew T]

Have you considered Methadone Maintenance Treatment? You won't have to worry about withdraw, and methadone will help your pain, especially if they offer split dosing. If not, once you get take homes you could split the dose up during the day to better manage the pain.

As far as I'm aware MMT isn't reported to any state prescription drug monitoring system.

http://dpt2.samhsa.gov/treatment/ ( Opioid Treatment Directory )

[Suboxstitute]

Bupe is expensive and between my wife and I we require so many other medications I don't want to hit the limit and then have to pay for everything out of pocket. What's more, once I have bupe on my record I can probably kiss ever being treated for legit pain goodbye forever. That's what I'm truly afraid of.

That is my fear too - what if I truly need pain management? Bad back, extensive jaw/dental issues - it could easily happen. And I am going thru insurance for bupe.

And I an NOT getting younger. And right now I am covered by hubby's great insurance, but he is going to retire 8 years before I do - and now that I have my own business, it's going to be next to impossible to pass underwriting for insurance that in non-group (non work). And I DO NOT want to go back to the corporate world just for fucking health insurance. So I am hopeful that the country will actually do something about getting people insurance.

Hell, I'd be willing pay a fair amount for coverage, and I STILL know I would be rejected for coverage for a variety of reasons. Well, I have a few years to worry about that.

One comfort I take is that there are some very good articles, published in respected medical journals that stress the fact that even if a person has been treated for addiction in the past, they have the right to current and future pain treatment as warranted. They even give the protocols (i.e. the former addict will need a higher dose, etc.) I truly believe that sooner rather than later treating physicians (surgeons, internists, etc.) will buy into that model. Pie in the sky? Bunch of shit? MAYBE. But as long as I am not scamming a treating doctor, I'll get pain relief if and when I need it.

I will demand it until I get it, (or if I am too sick my husband will) and I have all the articles and research to back me up alreayd printed and in a folder.

If you ever need that stuff (it is all on the naabt site) PM me.

I wish you all the best.