OTC Sedatives? Anything really work?

[Papa Verine]

I just kicked a dope habit. I used up my script for Klonopin too early because I was taking extra while kicking. So, now, I tried to get the doc to approve an early refill...

Nope! He doesn't like this. He said he won't refill it early, if I really have a problem with it, I can go to an E.R. Whatever, I don't let doctors bother me. I've always been able to deal with my own shit. If that's his stance, fine.

I was taking about 2mg a day. Not much, but I've been taking it for a couple months straight. Now I have benzo w/d's to deal with. The only thing that's ever helped me with benzo W/D is alcohol and I don't really want to go there because 12 hours later I have a hangover + benzo w/d's. And that doesn't feel too good.

Are there any OTC products that actually work as sedatives? This is my question. I have my own experience with OTC sedatives/herbals and I believe there was a thread about this already but I read it all... I thought I'd throw this question out here hoping to hear something new.

Thanks all!

[Ludakris]

Chi had a really good remedy that I've given a shot and it seemed to help. It was in Levity's "steppin out" thread.

http://forum.opiophile.org/showthread.php?p=235481#post235481

I believe that is the right link, should be the third page. Hopefully this helps, it helped me out this past weekend

[eerased]

I am ashamed to admit this but I couldnt live without my pm's.
I take way more than even a horse should but I thought I'd give you "my" thoughts.

The generic ones are a touch and go. sometimes they work and sometimes they dont. But there is this fucked up side effect that I get about every 10 times I take them and it's RLS but all over my body. It's really freaky. They cause me to become so uncomfortable. The doc at the ER told me it's like when you give a kid benadril to sleep and it has the oppisite effect on them. You get really restless.. I know the whole thing about to much apap but sometimes the generic tylonal pm work better then just the pms. I've been taking these fukers for about 8-9 years now! I alternate brands and types.
So the only thing I can reccommend is that you get both. The kind with the apap and the kind without. Take 4 of them.. 2 with and 2 without! see what that gets you and go from there.

Unisom also has some that isnt dipethenhydromine (sp) it's something else but I cant think of it right now.

I aslo wanted to say Papa I think it might not be a good idea to just not have any benzos and if it gets bad pleez reconsider and go to the ER... I've never been threw benzo w/d but Ive never heard anything good about it!

Good luck buddy!! hopefully someday this fucking monkey will jump off our backs

[Papa Verine]

Chi had a really good remedy that I've given a shot and it seemed to help. It was in Levity's "steppin out" thread.

http://forum.opiophile.org/showthread.php?p=235481#post235481

I believe that is the right link, should be the third page. Hopefully this helps, it helped me out this past weekend

Thanks Ludakris. I got all that shit though, none of it's helping much. My brain knows what it wants and unless I feed it some benzodiazepines or opiates, I don't think I'm sleeping tonight. Last night I got 45 minutes of sleep, then I woke up all sweaty.

[Ludakris]

I am ashamed to admit this but I couldnt live without my pm's.
I take way more than even a horse should but I thought I'd give you "my" thoughts.

The generic ones are a touch and go. sometimes they work and sometimes they dont. But there is this fucked up side effect that I get about every 10 times I take them and it's RLS but all over my body. It's really freaky. They cause me to become so uncomfortable. The doc at the ER told me it's like when you give a kid benadril to sleep and it has the oppisite effect on them. You get really restless.. I know the whole thing about to much apap but sometimes the generic tylonal pm work better then just the pms. I've been taking these fukers for about 8-9 years now! I alternate brands and types.
So the only thing I can reccommend is that you get both. The kind with the apap and the kind without. Take 4 of them.. 2 with and 2 without! see what that gets you and go from there.

Unisom also has some that isnt dipethenhydromine (sp) it's something else but I cant think of it right now.

I aslo wanted to say Papa I think it might not be a good idea to just not have any benzos and if it gets bad pleez reconsider and go to the ER... I've never been threw benzo w/d but Ive never heard anything good about it!

Good luck buddy!! hopefully someday this fucking monkey will jump off our backs

It's funny you mention that, I've had the same problems with Benadryl in the past, from either taking too much, or mixing them with Valium. Just restless as fuck and, like you said, RLS all over the body, can't sit still for more than 5 min...I cringe just thinking about it.

And yes, when I was a kid, I would take a Benadryl and be wired, then take a Sudafed and be tired as hell...the Doctor couldn't figure it out, perhaps he was an idiot...

Thanks Ludakris. I got all that shit though, none of it's helping much. My brain knows what it wants and unless I feed it some benzodiazepines or opiates, I don't think I'm sleeping tonight. Last night I got 45 minutes of sleep, then I woke up all sweaty.

Damn Papa, I know that feeling all too well. Damn the mind being that powerful, your mind can trick you into staying up for days on end until you feed it what it craves, but nooooo, we can trick our mind into thinking it already has that which it desires...damn double standard!

I wish I had some better advice, but I know first hand that very little will break that mental block.

[eerased]

It's funny you mention that, I've had the same problems with Benadryl in the past, from either taking too much, or mixing them with Valium. Just restless as fuck and, like you said, RLS all over the body, can't sit still for more than 5 min...I cringe just thinking about it.

And yes, when I was a kid, I would take a Benadryl and be wired, then take a Sudafed and be tired as hell...the Doctor couldn't figure it out, perhaps he was an idiot...

Often times it's worse then w/d the restlessness of it! It freaks me out I cannot sleep without a handful of pms or benzos so it's like a crap shoot every night. Is it going to help me relax or freak my body out!

I did forget to add this seems to almost never happen when I buy the walmart brand that are 50mgs instead of most which are 25mgs. Walmarts so dam far from me I've not had that brand sense December. damm I'm a hermit!

[syn2600]

yes! i'm a bodybuilder blah blah, that whole deal, i work in sports nutrition, get somatomax by hit tech pharmaceuticals, closest legal compound to ghb you can get, this stuff gets you very euphoric and buzzed, and i have been put out as long as 16 hours taking 1 and 1/2 scoops.

[Nate]

im feeling that, benadryl gives the worst rls, I made the mistake of taking 75mg I think (25mg more then usualy), the rls was just as bad if not worse then the w/d rls.

Best of luck bro, if anything comes to mind ill be sure to give you a pm.

[Papa Verine]

yes! i'm a bodybuilder blah blah, that whole deal, i work in sports nutrition, get somatomax by hit tech pharmaceuticals, closest legal compound to ghb you can get, this stuff gets you very euphoric and buzzed, and i have been put out as long as 16 hours taking 1 and 1/2 scoops.

That's why I started this thread! Something new... here I go again for another round folks, where I end up from here is anyone's guess!!!

HA! I don't think I can ever learn to like any drug besides an opioid, but this stuff might have a place in my "work-out regimine".

Thanks Syn.

[kyuss]

That's why I started this thread! Something new... here I go again for another round folks, where I end up from here is anyone's guess!!!

HA! I don't think I can ever learn to like any drug besides an opioid, but this stuff might have a place in my "work-out regimine".

Thanks Syn.

Let me know
if it works.
I can see
hit tech pharmaceuticals stock
rising over night if it does.
Junkies with money! (oxymoron?)
I was gonna suggest
benadryl with a couple shots of Nyquil
with a full spectrum kratom tincture
followed by three shots of jager
and a lil kava kava after jacking off
and watching Rockford Files reruns.

[Papa Verine]

Let me know
if it works.
I can see
hit tech pharmaceuticals stock
rising over night if it does.
Junkies with money! (oxymoron?)
I was gonna suggest
benadryl with a couple shots of Nyquil
with a full spectrum kratom tincture
followed by three shots of jager
and a lil kava kava after jacking off
and watching Rockford Files reruns.

My mind's interpretation of Kyuss's post...

Drink some Jager, drink some Jager, drink some Jager!

OK, maybe I've been looking for an excuse to get drunk...

[wafflehead77]

Hey Papa, do you happen to have any Neurontin (gabapentin), or Lyrica (pregabalin)? I know they arent OTC, but Docs hand them out alot. Anyway, they both work on GABA receptors (same as benzo's), and moderate doses of either could be extremely helpful.

The reason I ask is I have at least 10 (unfilled) rx's for these laying around. Docs love to hand them out in lieu of real pain meds.

I would stay away from the Benedryl/Somonex OTC shit. The antihistamines are also anticholinergics, and they can cuase stimulation/anxiety/insomnia. Couple that w/ benzo w/d and it could really suck.

Clonodine?

[kyuss]

My mind's interpretation of Kyuss's post...

Drink some Jager, drink some Jager, drink some Jager!

OK, maybe I've been looking for an excuse to get drunk...

It's full of herbs.
Nature's goodness
with a pagan label.


http://www.bodyandfitness.com/Products/Health/product_infor/somatomax.htm
^
Does look interesting,Papa

[Dan Steely]

I'm surprised it isn't common knowledge around here but the active ingredient in unisom (doxylamine succinate) does make me sleepy while the rest of the otc sleep meds do not, at all. Add a beer or two and I am pretty floored, nodding/gnight.

No it's not a benzo but it should help you sleep with or w/o the booze.

When I got strung out on benzo's they made me tired all the time which is why I gave them up. It wasn't very hard and I was really glad that I did. I was taking them for anxiety and they helped but for me it wasn't worth the constant yawning and tiredness that I experienced.

Again, Sominex or unisom just make sure the active ingredient is doxylamine succinate.

[wafflehead77]

I'm surprised it isn't common knowledge around here but the active ingredient in unisom (doxylamine succinate) does make me sleepy while the rest of the otc sleep meds do not, at all. Add a beer or two and I am pretty floored, nodding/gnight.

No it's not a benzo but it should help you sleep with or w/o the booze.

When I got strung out on benzo's they made me tired all the time which is why I gave them up. It wasn't very hard and I was really glad that I did. I was taking them for anxiety and they helped but for me it wasn't worth the constant yawning and tiredness that I experienced.

Again, Sominex or unisom just make sure the active ingredient is doxylamine succinate.

Thats cool that it worked for you. The only reason I would avoid it (personally) is that doxylamine is a anticholinergic antihistamine, and these can cause hypertension. But if it works, it works. I would of course tread lightly until I knew the subjective effects.

[Papa Verine]

I have tried Doxylamine Succinate, Diphenhydramine HCl, Valerian root, Chamomile tea, Melatonin... anything out there that is supposed to sedate. These things do work for me when I'm not experiencing benzo W/D. But when I am kicking benzos they only seem to make things worse, especially the antihistamines.

I hate to say this but our drugstores in this country are full of garbage. If there's anything with even the slightest possibility of abuse, they won't allow it to go OTC.

Fucking alcohol... Is it really safer then codiene?

[wafflehead77]

What about Oleamide. It is the alkaloid found in Poppy Seed tea, from soaking too long. It is classified as a sleep inducing hypnotic amide. If you are trying to avoid opiates, I would assume you could buy some known "bunks" from whole foods, and soak those. Oleamide is released from within the seed, not washed off like opium latex, so "clean" seeds could still be a viable source of oleamide, while avoiding the narcotic.

It would taste like hell, and the dosage would be hard to judge, but it may work.

[SKipper]

Melatonin works better for me than benadryl or tylenol pm

[LorTabitha]

I've had some luck with 5-htp. Also kava kava works in a pinch. (I buy bulk and make capsules cause it tastes NASTY!

Lavender in small doses is sedating and energizing in large doses.

[ryan5892]

dxm is OTC and it makes people more stupid than most drugs, and there are probably tons of ER visits associated with it a year.

but we cant have a simple sedative hypnotic drug OTC

fucked up

[scikid]

Hey Papa, its been awhile since we chatted.

When I took a sober break I used Kava Kava and T PMs for sleep. Now that I drink again I take a Unisom or two and some beers when I need sleep. Cannabis helps too.

Honestly though I hate that I have to take these things to sleep. I'm an insomniac, used to have sleeping meds but now I'm uninsured. Thats going to change soon because I am in my final semester at school and will be finding a job with benefits.

[scikid]

By the way Kava Kava worked great for my alcohol cravins. It would probably help with benzo WDs since all 3 act on the same receptors. Here's where I ordered my kava, the health food stuff store isn't to great.

http://www.konakavafarm.com/


Also, I know Butterfly Social Club in Chicago sells a kava drink, so you can try it before you buy in bulk. I have no clue how potent they make it.

[mrklean]

PV,
I'm going through pretty much the same BS right now.

I've only been on the kpin daily for a few weeks now. Though, I'm already taking like 6mgs a day. I am scared as fuck as coming off. I have used higher doses but never on the daily. Granted I am prescribed what I am getting now. But, they don't seem to do what i need them to unless I double the dose almost weekly, and I am going to be prescribed them for atleast another few months god willing.

Maybe cannabis is not a good idea especially in high doses. I read somewhere that certain cannabinoids lessen some effects of benzos. Plus the initial increase in "anxiety" which I get for awhile right after a puff probably wouldn't be good while in benzo WD.

Using Grape Fruits, and cimetadine, have been seeming to help keep me from increasing dosage and going longer between doses. However, not so confident about whether this is just making me more addicted, or helping, or hurting, or just placebo. Although, never before did were grapefruits for me now I eat like 2 throughout the day.

See my doc soon, and he said neurontin will help my pins go further. Don't really want to add more synthetic pharms to the mix though.

Good kava may be a savior. Not for me due to liver issues. Reading has told me Phenytoin, will help avoid seizures. Baclofen I dont know where to get yet but sounds promising. As soon as I am ready to get off the pins I plan to do Phenibut, L-theanine, theanine, 5htp, Inositol (improves binding of GABA's?), DanShen, Kratom, B-complex, Gaba, or whatever combination of these finances permit. Oh yeh, hopefully doc can give me some clonidine too.

Valerian seems to be worse than nothing even whhen not in WD. Although would prolly help a while down the road.

Gonna read that above link and see what it's all about. Benadryl, seems to help me in small doses during the day. Especialy when combined with the chamomile, peppermint, lemongrass, ashwagandha, passionflower, hawthorn berry, sasparilla, tilia, and skullcap, ginger, nocaffeine greentea.

Mulungu needs to be aquired and should be helpful, maybe blue lotus?

I also wonder about the possibility of a purposely induced WD using that benzo naloxone equivalent I can't remember the name of right now. Put myself into WD on purpose with that and be basically knocked out by a different class of tranq. until the worst has subsided. Not sure what med the doctor could/ would offer to pull that one off. Maybe the key is as simple as phenytoin (or similar), shit tons of water good nutrition, exercise, taper, therapy etc. Atleast that'd be ideal for the doctor.

Will report back.

[mrklean]

Sorry for the double post.

Checked out the somatomax or whatever it's called. Didn't notice how much it cost but you could probably buy it all seperately although dosage would be more difficult to get right. Doubt the the somatomax will be a cure all. But, if there was a legal G replacement this seems like it may be a step in the right direction. However, it seems to be repeatedly stated that there is no alternative to the original.

Thanks whoever posted the kava link.

found the following posted:

"Hi-Tech Pharmaceuticals isnt a company I trust :

http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/pressrel/pr092006.html "

The active in Somatomax seems to be 4-amino-3-Phenylbutric Acid which is basically just Phenibut. Correct me if wrong.

[Papa Verine]

Update...

I've tried everything.

What I've found to be the most effective at fighting opiate AND benzodiazepine withdrawls will certainly be surprizing to most people.

BLUE SCULLCAP EXTRACT!

That's SCUTELLARIA LATERIFLORA extract (standardized to contain 12% phenols). I don't know what the fuck that means... but I do know that the last time I was kicking a dope and benzodiazepine habit, this herbal extract was the only thing that made me feel human again. I took at least 5 times the recommended dosage 3 times a day BUT it worked wonderfully. I slept through the nights and my attitude and general outlook on life was much more positive then it is now (cold sober). There might be something to this stuff... It's just that as much as it made me feel "OK" it never made me feel high, sedated or opiated. Just "Normal".

But I'll tell you all... "feeling normal" when kicking opiates and benzos is a Godsend.

This herbal extract did that for me.

I hope it can help the rest of you as well as it helped me. Please report your experiences. My advice and a nickle amounts to about 1.5 cents!!!

[ZodiacKiller]

^^Where'd you find this stuff, Papa V? Think it could be found at ,say, an Outpost Food-type place? I, too have tried just about everything listed in the thread above, and I wanna give this a shot....

Thanks!



ZK

[SurfRat]

When I got strung out on benzo's they made me tired all the time which is why I gave them up. It wasn't very hard and I was really glad that I did. I was taking them for anxiety and they helped but for me it wasn't worth the constant yawning and tiredness that I experienced.
...

Same here, I can only take real small amounts or I get totally tired all day. But I'm ok with short half life stuff like halcion or loprazolam, if I want to sleep.


*I just noticed I am commenting to an older post, this thread kind of skips ahead.

It is cool when you find an herb or otc that will help you for sure.

[God_Albino]

most otcs, even melotonin just make me more awake when im really sick and sleep deprived. a good dose of nyquil might knock you out at night, tomorrow get yourself some proper tussin or gels and knock yourself into a dxm coma

[mrklean]

Update...

I've tried everything.

What I've found to be the most effective at fighting opiate AND benzodiazepine withdrawls will certainly be surprizing to most people.

BLUE SCULLCAP EXTRACT!

That's SCUTELLARIA LATERIFLORA extract (standardized to contain 12% phenols). I don't know what the fuck that means... but I do know that the last time I was kicking a dope and benzodiazepine habit, this herbal extract was the only thing that made me feel human again. I took at least 5 times the recommended dosage 3 times a day BUT it worked wonderfully. I slept through the nights and my attitude and general outlook on life was much more positive then it is now (cold sober). There might be something to this stuff... It's just that as much as it made me feel "OK" it never made me feel high, sedated or opiated. Just "Normal".

But I'll tell you all... "feeling normal" when kicking opiates and benzos is a Godsend.

This herbal extract did that for me.

I hope it can help the rest of you as well as it helped me. Please report your experiences. My advice and a nickle amounts to about 1.5 cents!!!


That's interesting I just got back and read your post PV. Funny thing is while I was out; and I don't get out much I picked up a bottle of the scutellaria lateriflora (350mg flower and leaf). Then soon as I get home I read your post. I ate a couple and am going to use a little in a smoking blend.

I can't find Phenibut anywhere. Has anyone seen it in the midesat coast? Is it OTC still? The Kava is helping me feel a little better than well I beleive.

[rockbottom]

I just kicked a dope habit. I used up my script for Klonopin too early because I was taking extra while kicking. So, now, I tried to get the doc to approve an early refill...

Nope! He doesn't like this. He said he won't refill it early, if I really have a problem with it, I can go to an E.R. Whatever, I don't let doctors bother me. I've always been able to deal with my own shit. If that's his stance, fine.

I was taking about 2mg a day. Not much, but I've been taking it for a couple months straight. Now I have benzo w/d's to deal with. The only thing that's ever helped me with benzo W/D is alcohol and I don't really want to go there because 12 hours later I have a hangover + benzo w/d's. And that doesn't feel too good.

Are there any OTC products that actually work as sedatives? This is my question. I have my own experience with OTC sedatives/herbals and I believe there was a thread about this already but I read it all... I thought I'd throw this question out here hoping to hear something new.

Thanks all!DXM works but you have to take what would be considered an overdose by some people. if you can get your hands on some Seroquel that will knock you out for awhile too for myself i'd start out with 300 mgs but its an experiment and i have personal knowledge of a guy who had to take 1800 mgs just to knock him out for 6 hrs. be careful but don't pay too much attention to all the harm reduction sissies out there~Peace~ Rockbottom ps meletonion and valerian root also sometimes work.
and if you know in the future who'll have to go through this there are some good International online pharmacies you can use-airsealed marketing, wholesale-pharmacy, pharmacialatina and indianmeds4u, some are cheap some are expensive, but i've never been burned by any of them. ship time varies frrom 9 days to 1 month--hope this helps:cool:

[EleusisII]

AFAIK they don't work. Not on me anyways.
BTW: If you can't get a hold of a benzo script, you might want to try to ask for Atarax, it's an antihistamine, but superstrong. Should put everyone to sleep. Zero recreational value though...

[red26]

I just kicked a dope habit. I used up my script for Klonopin too early because I was taking extra while kicking. So, now, I tried to get the doc to approve an early refill...

Nope! He doesn't like this. He said he won't refill it early, if I really have a problem with it, I can go to an E.R. Whatever, I don't let doctors bother me. I've always been able to deal with my own shit. If that's his stance, fine.

I was taking about 2mg a day. Not much, but I've been taking it for a couple months straight. Now I have benzo w/d's to deal with. The only thing that's ever helped me with benzo W/D is alcohol and I don't really want to go there because 12 hours later I have a hangover + benzo w/d's. And that doesn't feel too good.

Are there any OTC products that actually work as sedatives? This is my question. I have my own experience with OTC sedatives/herbals and I believe there was a thread about this already but I read it all... I thought I'd throw this question out here hoping to hear something new.

Thanks all!
Yes thier was a thread already about this and every once in a while I guess it needs updating because at one time or another I think all of us end up trying to take OTC meds and sleep aids for the thows of W/Ds. There was an old thread that Jacky started on a all natural benzo erb but right now for the life of me I cant remember its name. Typically I end up on 3-4 tylenol PMs, 100-200mgs of elavil, drinking a special bedtime tea not the selestial stuff either, a homeopathic sleep aid called Calms Forte' that works well , Doxylamine Succinate(50-100mg) and maybe some poppy seed tea but that can be a stimulant at times too. I was diagnosed with insomnia at the age of 11 tho and have been dealing with this for a lifetime. Top that off with opiate addiction and an anxiety disorder, bake at 250 for 1/2 hour and I'm a fucking mess. Booze is a bad way to go about it but it sounds like you've figured that out as well soo maybe look for a few of the things I listed. I would'nt suggest going my way cuz it'll most likely make you werse off than b4. The Calms Forte' are really quite good in general for helping with stress and anxiety and I'll just triple or quad. the dose for bedtime with some of the "Yoga bedtime tea-healing formula" and it typically works. The Doxylamine will knock you on yer ass but leaves you hungover the next day but if you can cope with some coffee its not so bad.

[Inspektahdek]

OK I'm really pissed off, you ever type a post and it's several paragraphs long and out of nowhere the page refreshes or does something on it's own to some extent and it loses everything you typed! AGH!!! ----- thing is I usually save my content once or twice if I know I'm going to write particularly long replies.

Anyways to completely summarize part of what I was talking about since I've lost track of all thoughts because I'm blind with RAGE right now, fuckin Ell' man.

Anyways, diphenhydramine (benadryl) is the best OTC potentiator as well as for a sleep aid. I dose between 25-75mg each cap is 25mg PO, 50mg PO is the desired dose but you want to already have your DOC kick in, and this provides further sedation which can help the nod, I know it's helped me in the past before. 75mg or 3 x 25mg PO is the best dose to take before bed so you get potentiation of your DOC if you redose cose to bed or a slight boost from a little earlier and then by the time all that kicks in together or with a redose and 75mg, you should be nodding peacefully into sleep if taken around the nighttime hour you choose.

:)

[HistoryofMadness]

i didn't read this whole thread so apologies if repeated:

the short answer is 'no'. your only real chance, even with prescribed shit, is barbiturates, and they aren't easy to come by.

then there's beer which will just prolong and exacerbate post-acute withdrawal syndrome.

hate to say it man but all you can do it kill time.

[Armegeddon73]

I will second Steely's recommendation. Unisom gel caps are a OTC gem. They got me fast asleep after long coke binges down in Miami. Add alcohol and you have an above average sedative. Good luck Papa, I'll be thinking of you as I am also prescribed Benzos but manage many days without them. Much respect.
ARM

[gauchoamigo]

Not really, but the best try is given to a phenothiazine, PROMETHAZINE, marketed in the UK under the name PHENERGAN, 10 and 25mg strength. Forget the 10s; two of the 25s are an adequate substitute for a very weak hypnotic if you're having bother getting to sleep.
Otherwise, there isn't a thing that will help you that can be bought over the counter.

[OxyQueen]

I didn't read thru the whole thread...but DRAMAMINE...works real well