New here..lotsa questions!

[kchampagne]

Hi, hope this finds everyone well, by well I mean NOT SICK! So a little about myself, my name is Kerry, I am from ontario Canada. I have had a love affair with opiates since I was 17. Started probably the way most did, you know percs, oxy's, big reds (morph's)...so on so on. I detoxed myself twice, entered a professional detox twice and always returned myself back on what I loved to hate. I also entered a residential treatment centre in Toronto Ontario and again returned yet again to my other half. I just could not put my body through another detox so I went on methadone, I am currently on 20ml, cause I am terrified to be on anythign higher than that. The problem is I still use everyday. I get great deals on the big reds and usually break those either in half or a half and a bit. So I am defeating the whole purpose of being on methadone. Except the fact that if my "guy's" not around or gets admitted into hospital or something I am only a little sick. I have decided that I may want to try getting off the reds for a while get stable on my dose and switch to suboxone. It was recently approved here and I would like some info. from anyone who has made the transition...smooth or otherwise. If anyone can give me any information I would appreciate it. I've done lots of research and have come to find that I should be off methadone for a couple of days first as I do not want to be put into precipitated withdrawal. I am very worried about getting sick, I think I can two days, I find amitritaline affective in helping withdrawals especially for the first six days, sleep and all, and I have a script. I also have heard less is more and I just thought if anyone can give me as much advice as possible I would really appreciate it.
Anyways thanks alot in advance to anyone willing to share.
Kerry

[ein0606]

welcome...im going thru the transition process right now. i was at 100mgs or so and have been going down 5 mgs of methadone a week. today i got to 50. once i get to around 20-30 the doc is gonna (hopefully) give me a week worth of short acting opiate, like morphine or roxi's. then i should be able to switch to subs fairly easily......

if i were u and your only at 20mgs i would just since your using everyday anyway, just get at least a week worth of "red" or your morphine and just not dose at the clinic... give yourself at least a week to get rid of the done, but your low enough you probably wouldnt even need to wait that long...but when you do switch please be as sick as you can. wait as long as you can stand to take the subs.
i went thru precipitated withdrawls once and it was awful....this doc actually gave me 80 mgs methadone for months then i told him i wanted to switch and he gave me subs after dosing the day before. so he just gave me like 2 mgs to get me sick then just kept giving me more and more subs while sick to try annd break thru....it just wiped all the methadone off my receptors and eventually the subs got on them. i was only in the precipt wd's for 3 or 4 hours before i started to get better and didnt really feel normal till the next day, i cant imagine what it would be like to go thru that for days, but i swear to god that was awful and worse than any normal kick i have ever had.......
anyway be careful and just be as sick as can be when you take your first dose of subs....

now thats just my advice and experience, someone may have way better info..
so good luck to you. i hope you make the switch as smoothly as possible...

[reddragon3668]

Welcome to the board, kchampagne! Its good to have you. I can't help you with the Subs. Ein's adive is good, and I am sure others will chime in soon. I hope it all works out for ya and that you can find a way to get where you want to be, sooner than latter. Take care, and I look forward to your future post. Be safe!

[sidman]

I've been hooked on opiates for about 13 years now and after many times of trying to get off of them,only to go back,I found suboxone the way to go for me.
I recommend them if you really want to stop and get some kind of stability in life.
I have been able to keep money in my pocket and do other things beside looking for my next fix since I've been on the Sub's.
I think you have to wait until w.d's start until you can take the first dose of Suboxone though.

[Saint]

Hi Kchampagne, welcome. I am a methadone-user myself and tried this switch but unfortunately it didn't work for me and I tried pretty hard (about ten weeks). The reason why it didn't work is still unclear.
I think subs don't work for pain. My doctor thinks they don't work beause my brain is too adjusted to methadone after having been on it for 25 years.
Here is the thread I did about my switch from methadone to subs (if you're interested):

http://forum.opiophile.org/showthread.php?t=10633

Anyway, we're all diferent so I hope it works for you. Why don't you try and taper the methadone? You are already on a very low dose.. Or do you want to make sure that you won't be chippin in the future and is that why you want the subuxone? So that you can not chip on the side?
By the way: I waited about three whole days before making the switch and I was o.k. Those 3 days were a little rough though. Too bad subs just didn't work for my pain..
(oh, and I found myself wanting waaaay more benzo's than ever before beause subs made me all hyper).
Good luck!

[eerased]

I've been hooked on opiates for about 13 years now and after many times of trying to get off of them,only to go back,I found suboxone the way to go for me.
I recommend them if you really want to stop and get some kind of stability in life.
I have been able to keep money in my pocket and do other things beside looking for my next fix since I've been on the Sub's.
I think you have to wait until w.d's start until you can take the first dose of Suboxone though.

First welcome to the board K! these folks will steer you in the right direction! Glad to have ya.


sidman,
I know this isnt my thread but I've been seriously thinking of this lately cuz of the exact reasons you mentioned above! How long have you been on subs now? Was it an easy transition? I'm not affraid of w/ds anymore they are just a normal part of my life and I'm sick of it so Ive really been thinking about this! I've also been hooked for 13-14 years now.

[rizzo]

hello and welcome,i havent switched from methadone to subs,but heroin to subs,and ive done it 2 times now,each time was differnt,the first was the worst,as it it was a little rough the first few day but after that i felt fine.even getting a little buzz(read,the orange speedy kind of fun thread),this last time was a breeze and now i actually look forward to taking my pill in the morning.it gives me the satifaction of still doing something everyday.well i hope it all works out for you.

[chopstix]

At a low dose of Methadone and access to morphine, here is how I would recommend a sub switch and I'll tell you why.

Get off the md, for at least a week, before you begin the switch. MD has such a crazy halflife that you really have to sit and wait for like 3 days before you can take the bup. If you went a week without MD, and just maintained on as little M as possible, you would only need 12hrs or so to do the switch.

Bup is funny stuff, and everyone seems to report slightly different experiences with it. The first time I got on it, I was using quite a bit of heroin a day, and I waited until I was *really* sick, and the first three days were fucked. There was some improvement after about 24hrs but it really took three days before I felt right.

Now when I switch (granted I'm never that far away from it - a week off at the most) it's a lot easier. I get the blahs for 12hrs and then I'm pretty much fine..

Between Methadone's half life and Bup's wicked binding affinity, they can be a really difficult transition. I actually did it last week, I used about 300mg MD over a few days with a bunch of Valium and then gave the rest of the done away and sat on my hands for four days before I took the sub, and it was a little rough. MD is really gnarly shit and MHO is to get some time away from it before you switch. Bup takes a little getting used to and I think it helps if your first time is not a fight against precipitated wd..

HTH..

[bluesubaru]

from what i've read on the NAABT.org board, at that low of a done dose you shouldn't have too much trouble getting on bupe...you are going to have to wait a few days though being on done. i'd try to step down on the morphine.
your doctor can give you subtex (bupe without naloxone) so there is no chance of wd's, although the sublingual effect of naloxone is debated

[Suboxstitute]

I like the idea of being off the 'done completely for a week - switching to another opiate if you can get it.

Someone mentioned the naabt.org board - everyone's pretty much on bupe, it's the entire thing and there is a lot of info there.

Different from this board since most everyone is trying to get clean and is on bupe for the long run... not everyone but most. But the info is pretty good.

They say you can switch over from 'done when you're down to 30 but there is still a longer wait to start the sub - like the 3 days which could get uncomfortable. That is where the "other" opiate comes in for that week - 10 days prior to sub induction.

I had NO trouble with going from my DOC to bupe at all - but I wasn't on done which has the long half life.

There is a good "sticky" here on this section about bupe. If you haven't read it, I'd go there too.

GOOD LUCK! The stuff works if you work it right... switching back and forth from your DOC to the subs is not a good idea in the long run, just FYI if you are thinking of doing that.

[kchampagne]

First welcome to the board K! these folks will steer you in the right direction! Glad to have ya.


sidman,
I know this isnt my thread but I've been seriously thinking of this lately cuz of the exact reasons you mentioned above! How long have you been on subs now? Was it an easy transition? I'm not affraid of w/ds anymore they are just a normal part of my life and I'm sick of it so Ive really been thinking about this! I've also been hooked for 13-14 years now.


Hi, do not know if I am doing this right, but is that your pitty, I have a beautiful rednose pitbull, her name is Kheeda and she's 12, I love her more than anything.
TTYL Kerry

[kchampagne]

I like the idea of being off the 'done completely for a week - switching to another opiate if you can get it.

Someone mentioned the naabt.org board - everyone's pretty much on bupe, it's the entire thing and there is a lot of info there.

Different from this board since most everyone is trying to get clean and is on bupe for the long run... not everyone but most. But the info is pretty good.

They say you can switch over from 'done when you're down to 30 but there is still a longer wait to start the sub - like the 3 days which could get uncomfortable. That is where the "other" opiate comes in for that week - 10 days prior to sub induction.

I had NO trouble with going from my DOC to bupe at all - but I wasn't on done which has the long half life.

There is a good "sticky" here on this section about bupe. If you haven't read it, I'd go there too.

GOOD LUCK! The stuff works if you work it right... switching back and forth from your DOC to the subs is not a good idea in the long run, just FYI if you are thinking of doing that.

Hi, that was what I was thinking getting off of the methadone for a week and staying just on the morph's, but they are a pretty long acting opiate too, I just cannot afford any of the more expensive short acting opiates, I only pay 6$ for two hundred mg. morph's (the big reds) 'cause I know someone who is dying of cancer and they need the money, do you know how long I have to be off the morph's before I can start the sub.? And no I definately do not want to go back and fourth, I want to be consistent, I go all day at work on my 20 mls of methadone, but by the time I get home I am sick 'cause i use the morph's every night, and I hate even leaving the house to get my drink when I feel like that so i always use first.
Kerry
ps. thanks for the help...i really appreciate it!

[kchampagne]

from what i've read on the NAABT.org board, at that low of a done dose you shouldn't have too much trouble getting on bupe...you are going to have to wait a few days though being on done. i'd try to step down on the morphine.
your doctor can give you subtex (bupe without naloxone) so there is no chance of wd's, although the sublingual effect of naloxone is debated

NAABT is the US site, right? Very imformative thanks, the only thing is Sub. just got approved in Canada and I cannot even find a doctor, my clinic will be providing it soon, but not soon enough. Do you know any Canadians out there you can refer me to?

Thanks again, Kerry

[kchampagne]

Welcome to the board, kchampagne! Its good to have you. I can't help you with the Subs. Ein's adive is good, and I am sure others will chime in soon. I hope it all works out for ya and that you can find a way to get where you want to be, sooner than latter. Take care, and I look forward to your future post. Be safe!


Thank you ! Kerry

[kchampagne]

welcome...im going thru the transition process right now. i was at 100mgs or so and have been going down 5 mgs of methadone a week. today i got to 50. once i get to around 20-30 the doc is gonna (hopefully) give me a week worth of short acting opiate, like morphine or roxi's. then i should be able to switch to subs fairly easily......


if i were u and your only at 20mgs i would just since your using everyday anyway, just get at least a week worth of "red" or your morphine and just not dose at the clinic... give yourself at least a week to get rid of the done, but your low enough you probably wouldnt even need to wait that long...but when you do switch please be as sick as you can. wait as long as you can stand to take the subs.
i went thru precipitated withdrawls once and it was awful....this doc actually gave me 80 mgs methadone for months then i told him i wanted to switch and he gave me subs after dosing the day before. so he just gave me like 2 mgs to get me sick then just kept giving me more and more subs while sick to try annd break thru....it just wiped all the methadone off my receptors and eventually the subs got on them. i was only in the precipt wd's for 3 or 4 hours before i started to get better and didnt really feel normal till the next day, i cant imagine what it would be like to go thru that for days, but i swear to god that was awful and worse than any normal kick i have ever had.......
anyway be careful and just be as sick as can be when you take your first dose of subs....

now thats just my advice and experience, someone may have way better info..

so good luck to you. i hope you make the switch as smoothly as possible...


Thanks so much, the big reds are the morphine (200mg) I think that is what I will do! I have heard you have to wait sooo long vefore you can jump from methadone to suboxone. I do know the half life is a lot lower than methadone. I do not ever want to go through precipitaed withdrawals, i have a two yr. old son and that is just NOT an option! You know?!
I am sure we will get to know each other better. This is kinda overwhelming at first (the forum) was it for you. I have never been to a place like this before. It's amazing!
Kerry

[eerased]

Hi, do not know if I am doing this right, but is that your pitty, I have a beautiful rednose pitbull, her name is Kheeda and she's 12, I love her more than anything.
TTYL Kerry


Awww give her lots of love. Yes this was my pitt. Brutus the Beefcake II! I had to put him to sleep on Dec.21st he was 14 years old!! Man oh Man do I miss this dog! :(:o:(

[kchampagne]

At a low dose of Methadone and access to morphine, here is how I would recommend a sub switch and I'll tell you why.

Get off the md, for at least a week, before you begin the switch. MD has such a crazy halflife that you really have to sit and wait for like 3 days before you can take the bup. If you went a week without MD, and just maintained on as little M as possible, you would only need 12hrs or so to do the switch.

Bup is funny stuff, and everyone seems to report slightly different experiences with it. The first time I got on it, I was using quite a bit of heroin a day, and I waited until I was *really* sick, and the first three days were fucked. There was some improvement after about 24hrs but it really took three days before I felt right.

Now when I switch (granted I'm never that far away from it - a week off at the most) it's a lot easier. I get the blahs for 12hrs and then I'm pretty much fine..

Between Methadone's half life and Bup's wicked binding affinity, they can be a really difficult transition. I actually did it last week, I used about 300mg MD over a few days with a bunch of Valium and then gave the rest of the done away and sat on my hands for four days before I took the sub, and it was a little rough. MD is really gnarly shit and MHO is to get some time away from it before you switch. Bup takes a little getting used to and I think it helps if your first time is not a fight against precipitated wd..

HTH..

I think you are right. Hopefully the doctor I find will be cool with me coming off a drug (m) of my choice and not going directly from meth to sub. I mean I just do not want to take that chanve. Congrats on doing this last week, i am scared as hell!
Kerry

[chopstix]

Bup is a miracle drug. Good luck..

[kchampagne]

I am so sorry about your baby, mine is getting quite old..but like evrything else I am in denial and she will live forever!

[ein0606]

Thanks so much, the big reds are the morphine (200mg) I think that is what I will do! I have heard you have to wait sooo long vefore you can jump from methadone to suboxone. I do know the half life is a lot lower than methadone. I do not ever want to go through precipitaed withdrawals, i have a two yr. old son and that is just NOT an option! You know?!
I am sure we will get to know each other better. This is kinda overwhelming at first (the forum) was it for you. I have never been to a place like this before. It's amazing!
Kerry


good luck with this. i thought that was the easiest least painful way to do it. if u have any questions dont hesitate to ask me....