Minimum amount of time for Bupe?

[MilkEyedMender]

Ok, so I have friends who swear to me that you can take Bupe after only 8 hours of OC withdrawal.

So, I've taken it after 12 hours and been fine before?..

I have a friend who was going to get me DOC after he got off work but suddenly isn't responding... :mad:
Something tells me he is avoiding me... although he said he has plenty.

So its been 9 hours and I took a sub. I just got a chill down my spine and am starting to get the chills.
Should I be afraid? It's only been 5 minutes. I figured that you guys would probably be the first to tell me if I just made a mistake or not.

... oh no? :confused:

Anyone had experience with super short time periods before taking bupe and been fine?

[MilkEyedMender]

Oh yeah, also.. I only took a small amount of bupe. If I go into precipitated withdrawal, can my friend who was going to dose me save me and push me through?

[Frank Zito]

You should be good. Don't psyche yourself out.

[MilkEyedMender]

Haha.. that made me smile the first time in these 9 hours... and thats a compliment. I have a very active and strange sense of humor. I am also one of those people who rarely actually "LOL" or smile even when I find something hilarious.

Do you have any experience to back that up though? =)

[kyuss]

You should be good. Don't psyche yourself out.

exactly.
It would be
a lot more than a chill.
Cool avatar,Spin

[Frank Zito]

Tx, Kyuss. Your's is on my list of all time favorites.

[MilkEyedMender]

I understand it would be more than a chill, but after.. lets see like 15 minutes now? I took a small amount of bupe thinking that if I went into precipitated wds that I might be able to break through with DOC..

... ok and obviously because I'm hoping that my friend calls and I can break through the bupe even if it isn't causing wds :rolleyes:

:jumping-s <-- what the hell is going on here? I'm new to posting, but not to the forums.. and I don't think I've ever seen that used.. .. ever

[chopstix]

Thats what happens when you take bup too soon and you have friends holding OC..

[MilkEyedMender]

Ah.. yes, probably. Question is.. do I 'waste' my money and try to break through if he comes through or take more bupe? I've never tried the breaking through technique before, if it even truly exists..

[MilkEyedMender]

... mmm nyesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss.

[Frank Zito]

8 hours of "O.C. withdrawl" or 8 hours since your last dose? What is your tolerance like? How much Sub did you take? What was the ROA of your Sub dose? By what ROA do you do the O.C.? All shit that would be relevant to provide you with the best possible answer. If you sublingually ingested less than a mg. or so I'd just do the O.C. You'll probably catch just as good if not maybe even better than usual. I have a lot of Bupe experience and this occasionally happens with me. Also, see Chicago's recent Bupe post, maybe that might give you a little insight.

Good luck and have fun. Welcome to the board.

Oh, What brought the smile to your face?

[MilkEyedMender]

In reverse order:
"You should be good. Don't psyche yourself out."
That ^

I feel better now, no chance for pri. wds I would say at this point.
I have a relatively low tolerence that most people here would laugh at. I do from 60-80 mg of oc nasily a day. I only have done subs sub-lingually. I don't IV anything anymore. I used to do heroin..
Can you snort subs? I've never heard anyone say anything about it really. It might acutally help with OC cravings seeing thats my normal ROA.

It's embarrassing but I'm sure I'm not alone, I've snorted other pills just to cure my craving for snorting something daily =/

[Raz]

^^^I hear ya can ssnort them for sure...

[Suboxstitute]

There is a good "sticky" post with lots of info on bupe; when you're not in between oxys and bupe at 1:00am (my time) you should read it; it's got real good info. (Not being sarcastic here, seriously).

[tptptp]

It depends on the person, the longer into WD you are the better you'll feel. Precipated WD's will be horrible. If you're pushing the limits just use a little and the precipated WD's wont be AS bad. I've foud if you take it too early you'll probably feel crumby and sober from then on, but if you take ti when you're SUPER sick it may actually feel a bit enjoyable for the next few days.

[tptptp]

Yes you can snort them and you only need half as much. They'll probably give you a slight energy buzz for a while too (the closer you are to WD by the time your next dose comes around the stronger/more likely you'll get this little energy buzz).

[MilkEyedMender]

It depends on the person, the longer into WD you are the better you'll feel. Precipated WD's will be horrible. If you're pushing the limits just use a little and the precipated WD's wont be AS bad. I've foud if you take it too early you'll probably feel crumby and sober from then on, but if you take ti when you're SUPER sick it may actually feel a bit enjoyable for the next few days.

Yes you can snort them and you only need half as much. They'll probably give you a slight energy buzz for a while too (the closer you are to WD by the time your next dose comes around the stronger/more likely you'll get this little energy buzz).

So, wait a second.. You can get precipitated withdrawals (from now known as: PWDs in my posts unless there is a better acronym) that aren't ... the terrible PWDs that people usually have and speak of? I'm lucky to have never had them before, at least as far as I know, but I've always heard that they are pretty terrible.

BTW: I've read the sub stickys, but these say to wait until you are in withdrawal. I took a half of a sub after only 9 hours last night without real 'withdrawals.' I usually only wait 12 hours and figured I was lucky. The lowest successful amount of time I've ever seen people wait was around 12 hours.

I've always wondered two things:
a) why you acutally go into PWDs.. I mean, sure it strips your DOC out of your receptors, but it replaces it with another opiate. I can see that you would feel worse than you did suddenly with your DOC but I cant see having bupe in your receptors after stripping your DOC being worse than ONLY having bupe in your receptors in the first place. How is DOC stripped bupe going to be the same as no opiates at all?

and b) If you take a sub.. then you take some opiates later in the day.. and then you take a sub again... does this = PWDs? It has actually came up as an issue for me before...

[chopstix]

I've always wondered two things:
a) why you acutally go into PWDs.. I mean, sure it strips your DOC out of your receptors, but it replaces it with another opiate. I can see that you would feel worse than you did suddenly with your DOC but I cant see having bupe in your receptors after stripping your DOC being worse than ONLY having bupe in your receptors in the first place. How is DOC stripped bupe going to be the same as no opiates at all?

and b) If you take a sub.. then you take some opiates later in the day.. and then you take a sub again... does this = PWDs? It has actually came up as an issue for me before...

a) Bup is not a full agonist and you've probably noticed that it's really not as much fun as OC or the other full agonists - it's very tightly binding but it doesn't cause the receptor to fire as much as the good ones. Because of it's affinity though, it immediately kicks out ALL agonists and then steals their seats, that's precipitated withdrawal assuming you're addicted, if you're not addicted, you're just not loaded anymore.

PW is reported to only last a few hours before the partial antagonism of the bup starts to come around and provide some relief. I wouldn't know, everytime I do a switch, I keep something around in case I go into PW which, btw, IS NO FUN. I've injected suboxone with H in my system and it's like shooting up a bad acid trip while dopesick, instant fear and dysphoria, not recommended..

b) Say your system is dry and you're dopesick; you take <4mg bup and feel better, at this dosage, you can push through and people do, easier at 2mg but possible with more. Now, if you take anymore bup that day, it will kill your buzz but you won't go into PW because there's already bup in your system. It's a one way street, once you have SOME bup in your system, you can chip and not get sick. I've maintained runs where I use 2mg in the am, use the rest of the day and then start over next day. At the end of the run, I will feel a bit off but it makes it easier to jump back and forth. There are experienced people on this board that swear this technique gets harder and harder. I'm not sold, I think everyone reacts differently to this drug.

Weird stuff, bup.. Awful lot easier being a junky with it though, I don't miss the old days..

BTW: there is A LOT of information in this forum about this drug and most of your questions have been answered, it's also not the most populated forum on the board so don't expect immediate responses, it's good to search around and read some of the older posts and honestly, most of what I've learned has just been through trial and error.. :)

[MilkEyedMender]

BTW: there is A LOT of information in this forum about this drug and most of your questions have been answered, it's also not the most populated forum on the board so don't expect immediate responses, it's good to search around and read some of the older posts and honestly, most of what I've learned has just been through trial and error.. :)

Hopefully quoting you, and then cutting the specific part that I want works. ^

I think you added that with an edit because either I'm blind or just didn't see it earlier.
I can't thank you guys enough, you say that this isn't the most populated part of the board so I shouldn't expect immediate responses. Well I didn't but your response times are incredible compared to other forums I've been on, so thanks.

[Sudafedhead]

ok so let me see if i have this straight. i wait about 24 hours from my last dose of DOC, take suboxone, wait about an hour for the nalaxone to get out of my system and for the bupe to bind, then if im still feeling terrible, which i know i will, i can do a little of my DOC and it will help me feel better? and i can take a little bit of DOC once in a while while im doing the subs, gradually lessening the DOC till im just on the subs and not going thru detox anymore, and i should be good?

im asking cause i tried doing subs a week ago, i waited about 15 hrs, took a half of an 8mg sub, half n hour later another half, kept doing that till i had taken 2 8mg subs and was still feeling horrible, gave up and downed a big cup of tea, which actually helped me feel better, but it seemed to take a couple days till i could feel the pod tea fully again. so i guess it does work then. cause the tea didnt throw me into withdrawels. i was on the subs for maybe 2 - 2 1/2 hours before i drank the tea.

[roxi*stardust]

ok so let me see if i have this straight. i wait about 24 hours from my last dose of DOC, take suboxone, wait about an hour for the nalaxone to get out of my system and for the bupe to bind, then if im still feeling terrible, which i know i will, i can do a little of my DOC and it will help me feel better? and i can take a little bit of DOC once in a while while im doing the subs, gradually lessening the DOC till im just on the subs and not going thru detox anymore, and i should be good?

im asking cause i tried doing subs a week ago, i waited about 15 hrs, took a half of an 8mg sub, half n hour later another half, kept doing that till i had taken 2 8mg subs and was still feeling horrible, gave up and downed a big cup of tea, which actually helped me feel better, but it seemed to take a couple days till i could feel the pod tea fully again. so i guess it does work then. cause the tea didnt throw me into withdrawels. i was on the subs for maybe 2 - 2 1/2 hours before i drank the tea.


You should not take Bupe until you are in mild to moderate withdrawal. When this happens depends on several things; what your DOC is, how much of your DOC you took with your last dose, and most importantly your metablolism. If you do take Bupe to early and it makes you ill, it will only last for about 2 hours before the Bupe starts to bind to your receptors.

The Nalaxone in Bupe has NOTHING to do with why Suboxone puts you into withdrawal, it is the Bupe itslef that knocks your DOC off the receptors. Nalaxone, when not taken IV, is not active when taken orally or nasally.

If you dose with 8mg of Bupe and it makes you ill and you want to TRY to push through the PWD, you may as well forget it unless you have alot of money to spend. It is best, like chopstix said, to take a small dose like no more than 2mg. The blocking action is much less significant at 2mg; 8mg will get you an almost complete block. I take very small doses of Bupe (0.25-0.5mg) with my DOC (oxycodone) that way when I do run out the Bupe is already there, no switch to do. Actually at those low doses Bupe acts more like a potentiator.

COWS-Clincial Opiate Withdrawal Scale-
This is used for Bupe induction.
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:O61ax6wijuwJ:www.naabt.org/documents/COWS_induction_flow_sheet.pdf+cows+opiate&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us

[Sudafedhead]

so if i just start taking tiny amounts of bupe, while im still taking my doc regularly, let the bupe get in my system, that way when im ready i can stop the doc and up the bupe, and i wont have to worry about pwd's or having to wait 24-48 hours to get on the bupe. since the bupes already in my system, i can just switch over to the subs, crank up the dosage and then im good? has anyone tried this?

[Sudafedhead]

actually, it prolly wasnt the tea i drank that made me feel better, it was prolly the subs kicking in, i just didnt wait long enough for either the pwd's to stop, or for the bupe to bind, right? all i know is i took 2 8mg subs over the course of maybe 2 hrs, just kept feeling worse (couldnt tell if it was just being dopesick or pwd's, just know i felt awful) figured if i kept taking subs at that rate, id run out of them by the end of the day, since i only had 9 to start with. so i gave up and went back to the tea. i dunno why i thought the tea would be enough to break thru 16 mgs of sub, but when u feel that bad, youll stab a small, oily hungarian man in the pelvis with a rusty butter knife if there was the slightest chance it'd curb wd's. know what im sprayin written essay. but if roxi or anyone else whos experienced with what i mentioned in my previous post could offer me their insight, i would be most appreciative and shall display this thanktitude by purchasing you a 6 inch veggie subway sub, your choice of cheese and veggies, with a small cola and your choice of peanut butter cookie or baked lays potato chips. they have to be baked chips tho, cause im all about being healthy. except for my hardcore drug addiction. but besides that, total health nut.

[Sudafedhead]

so if i just start taking tiny amounts of bupe, while im still taking my doc regularly, let the bupe get in my system, that way when im ready i can stop the doc and up the bupe, and i wont have to worry about pwd's or having to wait 24-48 hours to get on the bupe. since the bupes already in my system, i can just switch over to the subs, crank up the dosage and then im good? has anyone tried this?

can someone offer their opinion on this please? i gotta get on subs soon. and i think if this method works, it would be of interest to everyone here to know they dont ever have to deal with precipitated wd's or having to wait 24-48 hours to take the bupe. so i think this is an important topic that anyone who has experience with should share. i think chopstix and roxi confirmed this, but i want to make sure im conceiving this correctly.

so i have a few subs on me. i can start taking tiny fragments of it every day, while im still using my DOC, get it in my system, then when the day comes im ready to switch over to bupe, i can just stop my doc, up the dosage on the bupe and i wont go into pwd's or have to wait a century to take the bupe? if this works, then it needs to be stickied or something, cause it can save countless people from having to put themselves in a world of hurt if they dont have to.

also, how long should i wait after my last dose of doc to switch over to the bupe? or does it matter? and, how long would you say you should have the bupe in your system before switching over fully to it?

[Inspektahdek]

Trust me you'll be able to tell if you're having a precip-w/d or not, I've had it happen to me full blown once and it has scared me so badly that one time that even if I'm w/ding for a few days until I get more meds, I'm sort of afraid to take bupe now.

I had waited 12 hours after an FENT and OC binge when usually this is all I had to wait but I guess there were some residual opiates attached to my MU receptors because I woke up feeling upbeat when usually waking up in w/d is shite, and I started going about my day and then I thought before I start sneezing all day, eyes watering like I'm crying all day and sweat profusely, I should take some BUPRENORPHINE!

Being sort of in a hurry, I smashed a full 8mg on the table and railed the whole fucking thing, no big deal I thought and licked up and residual stuff and stuck it under my tongue. I went to take a shower and got out of the shower and felt extremely cold, but I was thinking it's because I got out of a hot shower into a cool environment so I get dressed real fast and I notice I'm still fucking freezing and all of a sudden my eyes are pouring my nose is pouring and I'm sneezing like crazy and my skin feels infected and crawling and I'm sweating and I'm cold and then I'm hot an then I'm cold and I felt complete dysphoria!!

I called in work and told work I had a flu going around and laid on the bed in agony just tossing and turning it reminded me of "Trainspotting" the movie and I was sweating profusely and felt like a mental patient about to die, my whole body was shaking and I felt SO FUCKING HORRIBLE!

Luckily I had a full bottle of clonazepam and it took 8mg to put me down until the mess was over when I woke up.


That is precipitated w/d, before I thought maybe I just had an episode of what it was when I was dosing at 20 hours or so, nope!!! It just happened to be a day where I binged so much the night before that 12 hours wasn't enough! It's like taking the best high+NOD you've ever had when you feel so great and care free and completely reversing that feeling to it's opposite! That is precipitated W/D.

And that's my story on that............

[Sudafedhead]

if anyone is trying to get off poppy pods and onto suboxone and are worried about how long you should wait before taking the subs, i waited 44 hours. also, i was only drinking about 5 or 6 large pod's worth of tea a day. try to taper down on the tea for a week or two first. then you probably want to switch to a shorter acting opie for a couple few days if you can and let the tea leave your system. i waited 31 hours after my last dose of the shorter acting opie, and took the sub and was fine, no precipitated wd's. remember, for the last few days you want to take as little as possible of your drug of choice before the abstaining period, this will shorten the time youll have to wait for the subs and lessen the chance of pwd's. follow that schedule and you should be golden.