CP Opiophiles (and just about everybody)Read This

[Boudica]

I am deeply troubled by the intrusion of DEA and "the other ones" in my treatment of the Chronic Intractable Pain that I and so many others suffer. My Dr, has become so paranoid, that she has implemented several new "musts" in order to be treated by her.

This all started a few months ago, with the request/requirement that all her patients sign a new, much more detailed and "tight" contract with her. No problem. Next, all patients were asked/required to sign an addendum: To submit to a piss test at anytime, upon the Dr's request. This also included a huge list of every street drug in existance, plus every opiate drug in existance, and stating "if any drug other than the ones that the Dr prescribes for you are found in your test, you will be immediately discharged." Now, I wasn't too bothered by this, as I never have anything other than my rxs in my system anyway, but it was the "indignity" of it that kinda bothered me. I mean, imagine little old ladies with walkers and canes going down to the lab with a form for a pisstest in their wrinkled lil hands. Weird. (I was told to do the pisstest within the next 7 days of signing this.)


I asked her if everything was ok, and if she'd been hassled by the DEA. She says, "No, but I am hearing of so many PM Drs being arrested that I am trying to make sure I have everything I can in your charts to validate the meds I give you ." I, tell her that of course I am more than willing to do whatever she asks, to cover her ass (basically), as I want no DEA interference for either her or me.


Now comes the biggie: My last vist, last month, this woman was so full of fear the room literally reeked of panic. I asked again, if she had been hassled by anyone. She says again, "No, but I am scared". She then writes down names of 3 other pm docs, that she knows, and tells me that she wants me to see one of them "within the next 180 days", and to basically ask that Dr Painmeds agrees with the treatment I've been receiving from my doc, and with the prescribing of the meds she gives me. In a word, validation, for what she rx's me, by another Dr.
She thinks that by having this in my chart, along with all my records that clearly show I've got more than a valid reason for being on these meds, I mean, shit, my main diagnostic Dr. was a professor at Stanford, for god's sake. Every fucking Dr who treated me in the last 10 yrs clearly says that I do indeed have Systemic Lupus, severe, which, btw, has left me in pain so bad I had to shut the doors of my practice (Therapist) and go on SSI. I can't drive anymore, I have to use a wheelchair whenever I leave the house, I can't even get OUT of the fookin' house without assistance and need I say more?


It is my feeling that if DEA had any problem with what I've been treated with for the past 3 yrs with my PM doc, they would have said something about it long ago. Simple common sense should tell them that if my insurance, AND my Medicaid is willing to fork over the thousands of dollars they do each month for my prescribed meds, then there must be a valid reason for it.


But she is truely frightened. She flat out said so. And how stupid am I gonna feel, when I go to one of these Pm guys she wants me to see, and I say "My Dr. wants you to say that you agree with everything she is prescribing for me, and write it up to be put in my file, bc she is so freaked out by DEA coming to raid her office."


This is what things have come to, and I have to wonder, what's next?
She did assure me that "I am not discharging you, and I am not going to. I just want to take every precaution possible to avoid any trouble."

CP OPiophiles, and, even regular opiated ones, would find some very intensely interesting reading at the following link:


http://www.painreliefnetwork.org/home and http://www.cpmission.com

BE warned, you won't be able to pull yourself away from what you will find there, and never forget, that knowledge is Power. It is imperative that we stay on top of things, and remember that there is strength in Unity. This affects us ALL, Cp'r or not.

*GOR, you won't be able to stop reading once you go there. What you find will blow you away, I promise!

[Boudica]

I just HAD to add this:

http://www.paincare.org/about/message.php?id=355

RAIDING PAIN CLINICS

The latest media blitz from law enforcement concerns the closing of “pill mills”. Great fanfare accompanies the news releases about clinics being shut down that “hand out hundreds of prescriptions for hydrocodone, Xanax and Soma.” The assertion is that “the streets are awash in these drugs and it’s the result of medically unnecessary prescribing by unprincipled doctors.”
Wait just a second, please.
The fact is that these clinics are supported by thousands of patients who simply cannot afford more extensive or sophisticated medical care. These patients are largely from the blue collar workforce. Because of the often brutally physical nature of their employments and long work histories from an early age, blue collar people are prone to very high incidences of structural damage, traumatic osteoarthritis, rheumatoid arthritis, late complications of injuries, spinal degeneration, and stress-related somatic disorders.
They are often uninsured or under-insured. If they are workman comp patients they are typically abandoned by their insurers or so hassled by “case managers” that they have given up on trying to get comprehensive care with continuity of care-givers. All they can afford, typically, is the five minutes of attention, for $50 per month, that high volume, low-cost clinics provide.
These clinics must be high volume, in order to maintain fiscal viability. If they see 60 or 100 patients a day, at $50 each, they will gross $3,000 to $5,000 per day. By the standards of any sophisticated medical out-patient facility, this is “chump-change”. Such a clinic will have to employ a receptionist, a doctor, a physician’s assistant (or two), a nurse, a book-keeper and someone to do maintenance. With $3000 a month in rent, and insurance and utilities on top of salaries (plus unemployment security payments) such a clinic might net $20,000 a month, before taxes. This is not high-dollar crime. This is low-income subsistence for a medical facility.
But, clinics like these are easy targets. Because of their necessary patient volume there are often substantial numbers of patients milling around waiting to be seen. Their cars are in the parking lot. The clinics’ names are boldly identified for the public to see. Often the medical personnel are foreign medical graduates, adding another element - racial profiling and prejudice - to their vulnerability to being targeted. The monotonous sameness of the minimal medical care they can afford to provide their blue-collar clientele (hydrocodone, Xanax and Soma) further dooms them to stereotypy. So, low cost, high-volume clinics for the pain management of the blue-collar workforce easily become “pill mills” in the eyes of the authorities who really could care less about the poor people who frequent them.

The goal is to “get the drugs off the streets”. But what is actually accomplished is to drive all the blue collar patients into the streets, seeking relief from their suffering. Their choices become:
1. Score hydrocodone off the street
2. Score heroin off the street
3. Try to drown their pain with alcohol.
No one can tolerate unrelieved pain. It is simply not possible. So as long as there is a large profit to be made by supplying drugs to people who can’t get them legally, there will be a huge and flourishing black market on the streets. Closing the low cost pain clinics does not make the problem better; it makes it worse. Drug prohibition IS the engine that drives and supports the black market in drugs.
Only a VERY, VERY small percentage of all the people who buy illicit pain medications do so because they suffer an addictive disorder. At least 90 % are actually people in pain who in fact hate to have to use medication at all.
So where can they go after the police shut down their clinics? We all know where they have to go. So, whose side is law-enforcement actually on? We know what side L.E. wants to be on. But where does it actually end up? You know the answer.
The solution is to end opiophobia and fantasy-driven public policy. Establish publicly supported clinics so that every person who needs relief from suffering can get the same quality of care as those who have the financial means to see legitimate and skilled doctors. Demythologize medications and substance abuse. Treat the actually small numbers of people who have addictions with proper, effective medical care. Terminate the assignment of law enforcement to policing drugs (they can’t anyway, isn’t that abundantly obvious from fifty years of trying?) Confront the obvious fact that law enforcement, adjudication, prison and parole, are now totally strung out on the drug prohibition laws and need to be brought back to reality. Over half the 1 out of 21 people in America who are currently on federal parole or probation (that incidence was 1 out 51 in 1985) are in that situation because of non-violent, drug-related crimes.
We can no longer afford this historical folly. It is destroying the nation and creating a disaffected, crime-wise, cynical underclass of disenfranchised ex-felons whose numbers will soon inundate what is left of our society (if one includes those on state probation or parole, nearly every sixth person walking down the street is in trouble with the law and can’t vote.)
So wake up America. Time is running out and the dope lords are making billions. (the little “pain clinics” in the strip shopping centers sure aren’t.)
J.S. Hochman MD
Executive Director
The National Foundation for the Treatment of Pain
www.paincare.org

[reddragon3668]

Wow, that is some really messed up stuff. I swear, its such a frickin injustice to make competent capable doctors fear exercising their discretion in the treatment for people with chronic pain disorders. It certainly appears that your doctor is a circumspect credible advocate for her patients, and for her to have to work in an environment where she fears every patient and every script she writes, is simply ridiculous. I fear that this is going to drive allot of competent doctors away from the specialty.

I often worry about the practice I go too. Its a new practice that's essentially being ran by a PA. He's good and compassionate, and while he doesn't inundate his patients with allot of bullshit, he's far from being a pushover. But, given that the DEA is in the business these days of putting PM facilities out of business, it scares me that my doctor will be an easy target. I know I wouldn't want to be in their shoes in this climate.

Thanks Boudica, for the heads up. Great links, too. I hope it all works out for you and that you won't experience too much undue stress for having to jump through yet another hoop. I can see it for newer patients, but CP patients like yourself who have been in pain and needing treatment for as many years as you, it is just an undue hassle, imo.

[Boudica]

RD, Thank you for taking the time to read my post. If I wasn't very concerned about the increasingly-fearful atmosphere I am seeing out of my own pain doc, as you said, who has been treating me for years, I would not have bothered posting this.

But it is an outright travesty, for our "lifeline" Dr's, who provide us with what we need to continue living, to live in a constant state of panic. Now that it's hit MY doc, it has become all too real, and something I now think about everyday, and pray that I won't end up without a Dr. who is willing to manage my pain. It would be the end of me, for real, and for so many others who suffer, as well. This is unbelievably fucked-up.

[Suboxstitute]

Boudica said


But it is an outright travesty, for our "lifeline" Dr's, who provide us with what we need to continue living, to live in a constant state of panic. Now that it's hit MY doc, it has become all too real, and something I now think about everyday, and pray that I won't end up without a Dr. who is willing to manage my pain. It would be the end of me, for real, and for so many others who suffer, as well. This is unbelievably fucked-up



This is SO true. After I had my second back surgery, my neurosurgeon took me off all opiate pain relief after 6-8 weeks. It was only oxy IR and hydro 10/325 and it was helping me tremendously; I switched off depending on whether I was at work, I was able to work. Oxy at home, hydro at work.

I didn't get "shitfaced" high.

Doc Neurosurgeon said the "DEA has standard for this type of thing" (which is not factually true) and at my age (51) I couldn't be on opiate therapy more than 2 mos post-op, which by the way is the safest thing to take compared to gobs of ibuprofen and tylenol.

Most of us know the story of Richard Paey, if you do not, google it. I think he was lfinally et out of jail now.

This is crazy! Boudica, I am so sorry this is happening to you. It will probably be OK, since your condition is chronic and will not likely get better and for that I am truly sorry. It will be OK. Doctors need to STAND UP to the DEA. This is what these meds were MADE FOR people like you.

But me? Guess what. Unmonitored and unmedicated....... I turned to "alternative means" shall we say of obtaining what I still needed at the time. Then I procured MORE than I needed. Then I didn't really "need" it as much for physical pain, but by then it was psychological and I was dependent/addicted.

I did things to obtain meds I never would have done IF I had access to a dependable, legal source thru my physician. One thing led to another; I lost an exec position that paid damn good money (that was actually a blessing for other reasons), had a horrible confrontation with my husband who really doesn't understand pain, or drugs (although he tries) and now I'm on fricken BUPE which I hate. And I'm scared to death of needing pain management again: first, the bupe will block it short-term, and second, I've got the scarlet letters ADDICT emblazoned all over my records in the entire health care system I am in.....

Good job, DEA.

[WarmCyanide]

legitimate chronic pain sufferers should not have to suffer any more pain then theyre already in.

boudica, i'm sorry to hear about your struggles.

[Boudica]

Sub, your post is an excellent example, of what DEA and other gov. interference has created in their psychotic "zeal" to hunt down and put good, knowledgable pain mgmnt doctors out of reach for those of us who need them. Your case is yet another view of how twisted the view and opinions of so many Dr's nowdays has become. Why don't they, or the media, bring up the TOXIC effects that otc garbage has on people in pain. I used to throw back handfulls of ibuprofin and prescribed NSAIDS, in my desperation to get out of pain.

Then during a visit to my Rheumatologist, upon complaning of sharp, intense pain in me guts that was getting worse everyday, he ran a bunch of labs and low and behold, I had pancreatitis and liver function problems that were but days away from puttin' me in the boneyard. I would just LOVE, to ask the Dr that said this ridiculous shite to you, "Btw, Dr. Dumbass, just WHAT are the side effects of taking large amounts of nsaids and Tylenol type products on a daily basis? And just why, does my pain not get better when I take huge amounts of these meds, in my desperation to get out of pain, hmmmm? Oh, and since pain is a subjective thing, then HOW, do you Dr's figure out these "time frames" that you put upon post-op patients, regarding their need for an opiate/opioid pain med?

Really. Explain this to me, because I am confused as hell. Where is the demonic force you claim is present in the treatment of a patient in pain, with opiate meds, when this treatment allows them to go back to work again, and regain some control over their lives?

I'd also like to understand why you feel the need to make us (the patients in pain) feel like complete scum, for wanting to not be in continuous, life-dessimating pain? Do you really not see that we already feel like shite? Don't make us take the blame for YOUR inadequacies, Dr. We already carry quite enough. Too bad you refuse to see that.

*thank you for you caring words, WC. Much appreciated.

[robojunkie]

This country is more full of shit that a methadone patient after 50 years on the clinic and a tenderloin with cake every night.

[Princess]

You know, this is very interesting. My doctor's office has been VERY strange the last couple of months. Last month the CNP cut back my meds and tried to refer me back to pain mgt (I won't go). I made an appointment with the actual doctor and he gave me my meds. He said to se either him or the PA the following month.

The following month (just last week), I made an appt with the PA (she's written my meds for years) and went for my appt. When I arrived, she refused to see me. I made an appt for the following day with the actual dr. He said both the CNP and the PA are paranoid because *something* happened.

He explained that he isn't worried about any of my scripts and I haven't done anything wrong. Afterall, I do have a huge file with MRI's, x-rays & ultrasounds from every year for the past 8 years as well as letters/reports from all kinds of specialists. I've been going to that doctor for years. He said he doesn't give a shit if 'they' want to come after him for properly treating my documented medical problems.

Something strange is happening.

[LorTabitha]

My doctor also has acted strangely the last 6 months or so. Whenever we discuss changing my medicines, he gets a weird look on his face and has said things like "I refuse to lose my license because of pain meds." (this is always totally out of the blue and not after a discussion of my taking too much or anything. My scripts are very closely tracked and documented.) Then he will order more tests and when he gets the results, he either changes or ups my medicines. It's like some unseen person is breathing down on him and he's scared, but he won't just talk to me about it - it's though he's putting it on ME. Boudica, your post sheds tons of light on the situation.

I know why some people give up with doctor care! Whenever my doctor orders more tests, I have to find a ride (I can't drive because of extreme vertigo [and I've had the near accidents to prove I shouldn't be behind the wheel!] and my hubby doesn't get home from work until after most offices close and he's taken all the "family sick" days he can for the time being during my hernia surgery and hospitalization.) I also have to make sure my friend/ride's car will hold my wheelchair and that the driver/friend is willing to push me in the wheelchair (my arms aren't strong enough to wheel around too far and they haven't given me an electric chair yet) and sit for hours during my appointments. I also have to make sure that the tests don't inflame my diabetes or any other condition (many tests require you to discontinue your diabetes meds for some reason.) Most importantly, I have to hope and pray that my insurance covers "yet another test."

I think I know why soma, hydro and xanax are the prescribed drugs of choice, based on your description Boudica. They are all available as cheap generics, whereas the newer, more powerful meds (fent, OC, etc.) are very expensive without insurance. Basically, we buy what we can afford. Sadly, as you mentioned, many without insurance turn to the streets to manage their pain. A doctor could at least oversee the process and help prevent some addictions from occuring. (not all, but some is better than none!)

Ironically, the last time I was at the hospital, there were signs all over about how the patients know best what their pain level is and the hospital and doctors would do anything they could to help with that pain. Yeah, right. Sure!! As long as the DEA isn't looking.

Thanks for some great food for thought....

[Boudica]

And a big THANK YOU, Lortabatha, for a most enlightening post. ALL of the feeback I've read here is like gold to me, as it lets me know that "it's not just me". From what I am seeing here, there is widespread panic goin' on with our Dr's, nationwide. WTF is going on here? It seems clear to me now, that dea is most likely working a "paper campaign", by spreading letters of warning to our Docs, about prescribing C2 meds to their patients, with the inclusion of threats that they will lose their liscenses if they don't meet a shiteload of their "criteria". In essence, DEA is practicing medicne without a liscense. Who is gonna call THEM on this fact?

It is time that we voice OUR feelings about this issue, and the fear tactics that are being used on our Dr's, at obviously increasing levels, as they pull pain patients and the dr's who treat us into their ignorance-filled "war". It is time we start bombarding our congressmen/women, and everyone starting from DEA itself, all the way up to the President (yeah, I know, but we'll have a new one soon), with our words, about OUR lives, and how this spreading panic among our dr's is affecting us/our lives. How would THEY like to experience how we have to live?

Lortab, your hassles are an exact description of what my life is like. About what an ordeal it is to have to run around "complying" with all these fookin' requests put upon us by our Drs. It's not like we can just jump in a car and drive around the planet every goddamn day to meet these ridiculous requirements.

If I were to write up a letter, which would include excerpts from your posts, including statements from you and others about what life is like for a CP patients and how this added burden of fear is fucking us up bigtime, post it on a blog for ez access, do you feel it would be worth my time to do so? My intent would be to provide a simple way, to give everyone this issue affects, a voice. In unification, that voice could become loud enough to be heard all the way to Whitehouse Blvd, and all other places of importance that could actually have the power to begin changing this disgusting manner of treating people.

To put the burden of DEA's idiocy upon a person in pain, imo, is an outright sin, and an unforgivable one, unless it is corrected and amends are made.

*LorTab, I just took notice of the fact that the timeframe of your dr and mine starting to "act weird" is exactly the same. Something to think about, huh?

[upstate_007]

Makes me wonder if the DEA is doing any kind of undercover sting work in the doctor's offices and the word has spread around in the medical community. Some of the things you guys are reporting that your doctors are saying sound like what someone would say if they thought they might be getting set up by law enforcement. Just a thought. It may be a little paranoid, but I don't think I am too far off with this one.

[jimmyfingers]

i see a pain doctor myself. i called halfway into the month and told him my new med werent working. the office manager asked the doctor what to do and she told me to come in to see the doc in 2 days and he will switch me. so anyway, i get there and he already has the script written but all of a sudden tells me no. folds the script up and puts it in his shirt pocket. he cannot change drugs in the middle of the month he tells me. i will be credited for this visit and wont have to pay for the next office visit. this is understandable. well i went to another doctor. my first time with this doctor. had no problem getting what i needed. explained to him about the other doctor and was real honest. he wrote for me what i needed. i get to the pharmacy and drop off the scripts. it was a differnt pharm. from where i normally go. they call the doctor's office and he cancels the prescritions. I DONT KNOW WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON WITH THIS CRAP. something is really shady and ive been getting a weird vibe period. on thurs i go back to my normal pain doc and ill let you know what happens

[Boudica]

i see a pain doctor myself. i called halfway into the month and told him my new med werent working. the office manager asked the doctor what to do and she told me to come in to see the doc in 2 days and he will switch me. so anyway, i get there and he already has the script written but all of a sudden tells me no. folds the script up and puts it in his shirt pocket. he cannot change drugs in the middle of the month he tells me. i will be credited for this visit and wont have to pay for the next office visit. this is understandable. well i went to another doctor. my first time with this doctor. had no problem getting what i needed. explained to him about the other doctor and was real honest. he wrote for me what i needed. i get to the pharmacy and drop off the scripts. it was a differnt pharm. from where i normally go. they call the doctor's office and he cancels the prescritions. I DONT KNOW WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON WITH THIS CRAP. something is really shady and ive been getting a weird vibe period. on thurs i go back to my normal pain doc and ill let you know what happens


That is beyond weird. Do you have any "red flags" on your medical records? Just my curiosity gettin' the best of me, as usual. WTF IS going on with this crap? And please, do give a post after you see your regular pain doc. I am truely interested in what the deal is with your situation. It is almost creepy.

[jimmyfingers]

i dont have any red flags on my record. i remember like two years ago i would go and get a lot of meds filled, real heavy medication and never had a problem once. ive had a couple of problems lately with even just klonopin getting filled. its always gone through, and i got the kpins but there was definatley some bullshit going on. i know im not being paranoid.
like anything else there are a few people out there that are messing things up for cp patients. IMO maybe some kid taking too much vicodin and mixing in with alcohol and getting real sick and mom calls the doctors office up and threatens to sue.
ive even had people in the waiting room that saw the doctor before me wait in the parking lot and ask what i got etc. these are people i dont even know

[Dan Steely]

You know, this is very interesting. My doctor's office has been VERY strange the last couple of months. Last month the CNP cut back my meds and tried to refer me back to pain mgt (I won't go). I made an appointment with the actual doctor and he gave me my meds. He said to se either him or the PA the following month.

The following month (just last week), I made an appt with the PA (she's written my meds for years) and went for my appt. When I arrived, she refused to see me. I made an appt for the following day with the actual dr. He said both the CNP and the PA are paranoid because *something* happened.

He explained that he isn't worried about any of my scripts and I haven't done anything wrong. Afterall, I do have a huge file with MRI's, x-rays & ultrasounds from every year for the past 8 years as well as letters/reports from all kinds of specialists. I've been going to that doctor for years. He said he doesn't give a shit if 'they' want to come after him for properly treating my documented medical problems.

Something strange is happening.

Your Dr. should be commended as a credit to his proffession. Sadly The percentage of Drs. with this attitude is probably comparable to that of the rest of the general population who value security over liberty at any cost.

If there is any hope in this matter it most likely lies with the greed and power of the pharmaceutical industry who will likely not give up their coin to heroin trafficers without a fight. God bless them and their greedy little hearts.

[LorTabitha]

If I were to write up a letter, which would include excerpts from your posts, including statements from you and others about what life is like for a CP patients and how this added burden of fear is fucking us up bigtime, post it on a blog for ez access, do you feel it would be worth my time to do so?

Absolutely worth your time. I would definitely be in support of that! (Oh, be sure to mention that during the course of my "regular" doctor visits in January I had to be taken to the hospital immediately following my appointments TWICE by my friends/drivers. Once for emergency tests and once for emergency surgery. That was fun times, folks!) Thanks for taking this on!

[starglazer33]

fucking late as usual i just read the entire post and have direct experience. when i live in FLorida i had a dr.x who was a pain mngmt doc preceded by another doc who used to run the show. that doc got busted it was on the news and everything in Cocoa,Fl. so im seeing my doc for about a yr and 6 months then i had to move. about 2 weeks at home my friends all called me (they were the ones who directed me there knowing my very severe sciattica condition.)anyway they called me and told me to get on my computer and they sent me the footage sure enough my good doc arrested in handcuffs! the guy was like 60something and a great doc phd's lining his walls.

but like i said thats what happened to the previous doc and the clinic still kept up. this time however i think they closed down the clinic entirely. i'm on methadone because after 2 yrs of full on pain i was laying around my apt, by the beach that i never went to cuz da pain and shyte if there werent 30 empty botttles of advil,tylenol,excedrin,all kinds of shyte like that and on every bottle it said do not continue to take if pain persists after 2 weeks do not use extended liver damage will occur. do not continue use for more than 1 week or more. sure enough i was taking handfuls of alieve, tylenol all the above and on every bottle the same warnings so i finally went to the doctor who confirmed all the above.

when i move back home no doc would see me i had no real records and could not afford an mri and the one i did have still doesn't show the actual pain.long story short i ended up an h addict. because of shyte like this.

anyways, i am kinda a fan of you,your posts i too am a mystic 19yrs of intense study(n research ceremonial) Helena Petrovna Blavatsky ever heard of her? A.C., William Wynn Wescott i could go on and on but the proof is in the act not the study i am currently on retirement but soon it'll end and its back to practicing(accomplishing the great work).as the pros say:rolleyes:

anyways again i will do whatever i can to help i am a writer and my will has been the treatment of people who use whatever herbs to salt n pepper. the fight against the stigma of the drug addict or just the recreational user either way the prisons are clogged with like you said non violent offenders which by the way and i qoute "in the United States Of America drug offenders typically due more time than child molesters, murderers and rapists! Is this justice is this the American way?" Warrel Dane in a band called Nevermore used to be Sanctuary back in the day. all this is true nation wide, and i've been there personally possesion of a controlled substance=viacodiene i hate vicodin hyped up aspirin if you ask me did a yr. had a good lawyer. i met a guy who got 5 yrs for two joints of pot! i seen the paperwork myself he was black from out of town just didn't know any better and the public defender aint givin' a fuck they all get paid. keep in mind i live in Kentucky and believe me it sucks arse like you don't know and i hope ya ne'er do.

Ok last anyways, i am willing to devote my time and my skill(if'n iv'e any) and whatever else to this cause i was already working on a sord of paper i cant say right now im a lil paranoid but i will pour my heart and soul into this live free specially since no one is being harmed! When i read Timothy Leary's Atou-hagiography -sp( sorry thats the correct term he wrote it while he was still alive died like real soon after) i was shock and amazed at how they treated him a docter who had like 9 serious PHd's and was a true humanist. well i am down with your struggle will sign,write,demostrate,volunteer, and whatever else within my ablility to this cause and thanks a bundle for your post and your information

whole lotta luv...............sg33

post script :osorry for the rant ya struck a bone i'm currently on course ta break.

[limitless_euphoria]

Now, after reading through this thread completely I just had one glimmering ray of hope that I thought about for a couple of seconds. On January 20th, 2009 there will be an administration change. Ding dong, Bush is gone!!! Perhaps if we can get Ron Paul (our collective #1 choice obviously) or, if he doesn't make it the most liberal democrat in office things might change at the DEA. Somehow I doubt it and although I hate to think it things probably will stay the same or get worse. I wonder what scare tactics these guys are using. And fuck the media with their sensationalizing of prescription drug abuse for lack of a better beat to follow!!! Go write a goddamn story about the local church bake sale or some shit. While there will always be diversion what about the poor souls who truly need meds to exist comfortably!!!

Oh yeah, and as for the likelihood of a more "liberal" DEA or it going buh-bye for good I would also say the odds are tantamount to the chances an asteroid from outer space might hit Earth in a week that scientist miss and we'll all be out of our fucking misery.

[kyuss]

That sucks,Boudica.
And it'll only get worse
if McCain gets elected.
And fuck,I used to like the guy.

[Boudica]

So sorry for my lateness to reply today. It's been a "hard" kinda day. Starglazer, thank you for your most excellent post, and for your generousity. And I have been a student of all those you mentioned, as well. There is no such thing as too much reading/learning, imo. It is our endless path, and gives us back so much in meaning and purpose in our lives. Bright Blessings to ya, mate, and give me a shout anytime. I am deeply moved by your sharing of your life experience within this issue, and it is not hard to see that we share that same huge "thorn" in our sides.

LE, and Sir Kyuss, your posts and fine words ALL serve to give me more than just a glimmer of hope, that changes can be made. No one deserves to suffer, and this imbalance of justice is absolutely sickening. Perverts and killers roam free, doing their evil acts upon humanity, and we must live in fear because of them. Yet, all this time is spent upon jailing people for ingesting a substance, with the intention of finding relief, whether it be physical or spiritual/emotional. Either one is pain. Pain is pain, period, and this criminalization of our Dr's, and of US, needs to cease. You have all made contributions here that are priceless, in value.

Thank you, each and all. The Word: Unity. The Result: One fookin' BIG LOUD VOICE.

I will not be brushed aside. I will not shut up about this. I will not sit on me hands and say "oh, well, this is the way things are and there's nothin' I can do about it."

Fuck that noise. It is about time to start rattlin' some cages, huh?!

[limitless_euphoria]

LE, and Sir Kyuss, your posts and fine words ALL serve to give me more than just a glimmer of hope, that changes can be made. No one deserves to suffer, and this imbalance of justice is absolutely sickening. Perverts and killers roam free, doing their evil acts upon humanity, and we must live in fear because of them. Yet, all this time is spent upon jailing people for ingesting a substance, with the intention of finding relief, whether it be physical or spiritual/emotional. Either one is pain. Pain is pain, period, and this criminalization of our Dr's, and of US, needs to cease. You have all made contributions here that are priceless, in value.

I just think it sucks that the DEA uses their gestapo-like tactics on these PM docs to make them nearly piss their pants in fear of losing their license to practice medicine and/or go to prison. I mean, it's one thing if they truly are running a so-called "pill mill" where everyone gets a buttload of morphine, OCs, dillys, etc. but what about the ones who have severe CP patients as clients that have built up tolerance over the years and require a shitload of narcotics to live a comfortable life???

I just wish somehow each DEA agent that persecutes doctors recklessly and without fair consideration could somehow experience a bout of intractable pain so they could know the nature of what they're doing and the consequences of what happens to patients who really need this kind of care. It sickens me, however, what am I able to do? What are we able to do? We can go out and vote but I don't see any kind of large "grass-roots" movement to overthrow the DEA going down any time soon. It sounds like a great idea but it's a 1 in 1,000,000 shot at best!

[Boudica]

It sounds like a great idea but it's a 1 in 1,000,000 shot at best!


Do not underestimate the power of a pissed-off Irish woman, me darlin'! Seein' me Dr., in a severe state of panic the way I did last visit, made me all the more determined. This is a good woman, a highly-accredited anesthesiologist, with Specialization Credentials in Pain Management all over her walls. Most of the people I've chatted with in the waiting room are using canes, walkers or wheelchairs.

This ain't no "pill mill". This good Dr. knows her stuff. To watch her becoming filled with fear/paranoia, more and more each time I see her, is inexcuseable harassement of a Dr. who is giving those of us who had grown hopeless, compassionate and legitimate medical care.

I have fought many battles in this lifetime. I'm most positive I'll leave this one, as a warrior, yet again.

If our very lives are not something of immense value to fight for, then what else is there?

And 1 in a million odds ain't shite, to me. That's less than it takes to win a lottery, yet somebody does every week, don't they. If everybody just layed down because a cause just seems too immense, then there would be no US of A, and my homeland would not be, for the most part now, a "Republic".

Things can, and do, get done. Change, is brought about by movement.
I believe with all I've got, that the day will come, when future CIP patients, and their Doctors, will say a silent "thank you" to those who chose to move and be heard, to fight the fight, for freedom to be given the meds they need to live, without fear being any part of the issue anymore.

[Suboxstitute]

Makes me wonder if the DEA is doing any kind of undercover sting work in the doctor's offices and the word has spread around in the medical community. Some of the things you guys are reporting that your doctors are saying sound like what someone would say if they thought they might be getting set up by law enforcement. Just a thought. It may be a little paranoid, but I don't think I am too far off with this one.


The answer to that is "yes". I don't know if specific patients already in treatment are being set up (I acually doubt that) but there are documented cases, publically available, where DEA agents posing as CP patients went into various doctors offices and presented with difficult to diagnose/difficult to "see" painful conditions.

These "fake patients" complained of severe pain. The doc has to make a decision: The AMA guidelines on pain say to treat it as another vital sign, like blood pressure, temp, pulse rate. So TREAT pain is one guideline. The other guideline is basically " be freaked out at scripting sched 2s and even sched 3s meds."

So based on the patients' word, basically, scripts were written. It was then revealed that these patients did not have legit pain and the doctors were busted. Don't know "how"busted - like did they lose their license to prescribe controlled meds, for how long, what.

I will try to find this stuff and post it up here. However, there are already a shitload of good pain management advocate sites that probaly have all the info there.

I know it is a cliche, but the DEA is wasting time on THIS shit when they could be shutting down meth labs. But that is harder and more dangerous.

[Boudica]

What you are saying here, Sub, is an unfortunate truth. Can you even begin to imagine the enormous amounts of taxpayer dollars going toward this activity?

Entrapment, I believe is an appropriate word for this shite, and it just don't get much lower than this.

Please, DEA, if you are reading this: Put your manpower towards destroying methlabs, even if it is messy work. Our member whose post is above this one, has the right idea. Take note of it, and help to remove a very real "evil" from our society.

[pharmboy]

Hi Boudica, I hear ya, I once had a Dr. that the DEA was trying to

entrap by sending in fake patents and then asking him to give them

bigger scripts than they should have gotten and Etc. It truly sucks, it's

worse than a police state. The Dr. I am talking about got so freaked out

he wouldn't deal with pain patients anymore. He said it would only be a

matter of time that they ( DEA ) would set him up and then he would lose

everything and possably end up in jail for trying to help people.

John Walters is the piece of human excrament that is pulling all this bullshit.

Although the DEA have always been dishonest it's really getting worse

lately. We really need some one like Ron Paul as president to moderate the

insanity. And it is insane when pain patents and thier doctors have to cower

in fear that they will be set up for being sick and in pain. And then there are

the Dr.'s that only prescribe NSAID's for pain. What a crock of shit, so they

think it's better for you to get bleeding ulcers and blood clots rather than take

a chance of drawing the attention of the Gestapo ( DEA ) bastards. My mother

who has terrible back spasums was given all these NSAIDs and she is 88. I am

shure if I had let her take them she would have had a stroke by now, and she

also has diverticulitus, NSAIDs would be great for that. You have to be your own

Dr. these days and just get the other one to write the scripts.

GOOD LUCK BOUDICA , I'M WITH YA .:jumping-s

[robojunkie]

I've been doing some occasional reading over the last few months on dea, regarding a number of things, one of them being their so-called "office of diversion control", which would be the branch of the SS the is responsible for rounding up doctors. I think I have some insight into what alot of you have noticed with your docs, and the underlying vibe of fear and paranoia on their parts. IMO, it is this policy that is responsible:

Sometime in the fairly recent past, dea (obviously) began increasing their attention and therefore harrassment on physicians, CP patients and the general medical establishment, probably as a result of the media frenzy about OC over the late 90s/early 00s.

One of their prime techniques used to identify (translation, persecute) doctors they claim are overprescribing (as though some pig who went to community college has the knowledge or right to tell a doctor what and how much to prescribe!) is to take the C-II inventory and prescribing records they collect every quarter or year, and perform an in-depth statistical analysis of said records, using such parameters (I imagine) as patient/script ratio, patient/analgesic equivalent units ratio, patient turnover, rate at which doses are increased or patients are switched to stronger meds, and even medical records where they can be accessed. Then, having performed this or some similar analysis, the TOP 5% (I believe its 5%, or it could be as high as 10% or as low as 2 or 3%) are then singled out (ie profiled) and then investigated with a heavy air of intimidation and threats of being labeled a pill mill, decades in prison, destruction of a career that took a decade of school and several hundred thousand dollars to start, and most of all the traumatic effect this threat, if carried out, would have on his/her family. Now, I personally find this technique (never mind the entire concept of drug prohibition) despicable, unfair, biased and based on nothing whatsoever but a flawed and "self-fulfilling prophecy" type way of "cracking down".

This is part and parcel of the war on drug users, as it expands indefinitely more enemies are needed, and since schedule I users (like me) have been public enemy number 1 for a long time, and there is really nothing new for them to do here other than continue illegal overseas police actions, or more appropriately military actions and the occasional, oh say one a decade, bust of a top "kingpin" somewhere. So, with Oxycontin all over the news (all the classic bleeds/leads type stuff, drugs, death, robbery, prostitution, crazed drug addicts, hillbilly heroin, fall of western society, inevitable result of a godless society, etc etc etc) this just perfectly landed 10s of thousands of doctors in their lap as potential "criminals" to investigate. Not only that, but the "positive" spin they would get by busting a so-called "dealer" in authority (akin to the wrath reserved for the priest/child molester, even worse than the "regular" child molester). So put all these together, and most doctors are smart and virtually all are well educated, and you have a policy of fear where a doc really doesn't know what C-II percentile he or she falls under, and the end result is a number of innocent docs in prison for decades, many more with ruined careers, and hundreds of thousands of patients who are being chronically undermedicated more every year as this steamroller continues, crushing and destroying any who stand it its way.

Lastly, I am not a conspiracy theorist or any of that shit. I am speculating on the precise statistical analyses being used to derive the figures, but it is a known fact that, other than rats, statistical analysis, and the "far end" of the Gaussian distribution (the bell curve) serve as the primary means of targeting and attack by the dea. They are a disgrace and must be indicted in the International Criminal Court as a criminal organization like the SS was at Nuremburg, for crimes against humanity and torture. I don't think I need to elaborate on these charges here. The dea is the face of evil and big brother today, masking itself as a benevolent but vigilant protector of children (from us, and our dealers), and sadly a significant majority of americans swallow it hook, line and sinker, that is until they suffer a chronic pain inducing injury or disease, or have a son or daughter become a junkie, at which point it is too late, as they are no longer contributing citizens, but persona non grata in a society who sees all of us as "less equal than others".

[Bluemagician]

Damn! This makes me sick to my stomach hearing about all this. I am not a CP patient, but my grandmother is, and she has told me a few stories of the doctors screwing around with her (pain) medications. She's an 80 year old woman, and DEFINITELY isn't abusing and/or selling her medication in anyway. She often tries to take the least amount of her medication possible because she doesn't like how they make her feel so "tired and sleepy". It sounds like the DEA is moving the front line of the drug war from the murdering, kidnapping, scumbag drug runners to the (mostly) caring, law-abiding doctors to make it look like they are making some "real progress"! Ha!

I have also heard of a few suboxone doctors in my area getting raided/closed down for "keeping up" with frequent drug tests (I heard this second hand through my current doctor). From what my doc has told me, offices that have many patients are being scrutinized to see if they are making any mistakes that the DEA came turn into sometime of "win" on the war on drugs (bleh, oxymoron if you ask me). It will be a sad state of affairs in our nation if our medical care keeps heading in this direction.

[Boudica]

I am in quite a tired state tonight. Just the physical stuff goin' on, and me bod ain't too happy about it.

I just did not want to sign off for today, without givin' me thanks to all the latest posters, for your grand contributions to this thread, which obviously is of great importance to me, you and many others.

I must put me tired lil bod ta bed, now, but I shall return tomorrow.

Just know that I appreciate every fookin' word that's been put in this thread, more than ya will ever know.

[TOOL]

Oh you are so not alone I just had a post going the other day stating how nervous I am on check up and refill day... fearing that the next time I go something will happen and I will lose my meds. My doc is very cool and he looks out for me but with reserve... I feel he does what he thinks is the best he can do without drawing to much attention to himself. the meds I get help a lot but I am still in pain and I know there are better meds out there ......but I don't dare ask about them ... I try not even to complain that they aren't working as well anymore for fear that I will piss him off.

I agree the Gov. is overstepping their bounds there are far worse issues that need to be delt with then harrasing Doc's over prescriptions, I fear that one day I will be forced back onto the streets for drugs for my back pain. I just hope that sooner or later someone sees all the problems CP patients are facing now and how unfairly they are treated, and you know what pisses me off???? If I run to the doc and say I am depressed I can get handfuls of samples of mind altering shit.... yet pain pills have the bad stigmata.


What are we to do???

[Boudica]

Oh you are so not alone I just had a post going the other day stating how nervous I am on check up and refill day... fearing that the next time I go something will happen and I will lose my meds. My doc is very cool and he looks out for me but with reserve... I feel he does what he thinks is the best he can do without drawing to much attention to himself. the meds I get help a lot but I am still in pain and I know there are better meds out there ......but I don't dare ask about them ... I try not even to complain that they aren't working as well anymore for fear that I will piss him off.

I agree the Gov. is overstepping their bounds there are far worse issues that need to be delt with then harrasing Doc's over prescriptions, I fear that one day I will be forced back onto the streets for drugs for my back pain. I just hope that sooner or later someone sees all the problems CP patients are facing now and how unfairly they are treated, and you know what pisses me off???? If I run to the doc and say I am depressed I can get handfuls of samples of mind altering shit.... yet pain pills have the bad stigmata.


What are we to do???

TOOL, I so know where you're comin' from, as well. I used to have the very same kind of fear you are talkin' about, when I first saw a PM Dr. He was just plain nutz, tho. I never knew who I would see everytime I went in, Jekell(sp?) or Hyde. So I was always afraid to speak up, b/c of me fear that I'd get cut off.

I have learned much since then, and now have a great PM doc. And one of the most important of these things is to not be afraid to tell your Dr. that you are still miserable, and that your meds are not working as you had hoped. Be honest, and say that you've been afraid to say anything for fear of being cut off. If he is one of the good ones, he will understand, and make some changes in your meds. It took me currant doc about 6 mos to finally get me dialed in with the proper meds, in the proper doses, to see me start getting some of my life back.

Any PM Dr. that gets disgruntled, or puts shame upon a patient for telling them that they are still hurting so much that they cannot get their lives back, shouldn't be in a PM practice, in me big-mouthed opinion. I've said this many times: remember that your Dr.s work for YOU. You are paying them to provide a service, and that service is all important. It is your health and your life that is greatly affected by CP, and there is no need for it. It can be managed, with appropriate care. Even DEA cannot screw around with "appropriate care."

If you get anything negative from a dr., because you tell him you are still in pain, it is time to start searching for a new one. That's something that should be an ongoing process for you, if you are not out of pain. But, really, it could be your own fears (which I went thru the very same, bigtime, early on) that are causing you to think that he might just cut you off for being in pain, still. It's not your fault. It's not his fault. He can't know what's goin' on with ya, unless you tell him. Bring him into a simple, human level, in your mind and heart, and approach him as you would a friend that you respect. From that place, perhaps both you and he, could get the ball rolling on getting you out of pain, and get ya smilin' again.

No decent PM doc wants their patient to be in pain. That's what they are there for, and you are not asking to increase your meds/doses, you are simply stating a fact that he needs to know about, in order to treat you effectively. It's the patient who comes in, asking for a particular C2 med by name, that raises suspicion, not someone like you. Practice in the mirror 10 times a day saying, "Dr., I am still in pain. I've been afraid of telling you about it b/c of the currant atmosphere (or whatever is YOU. You'll figure it out). Is there anything you can do to help me get out of this? Because it is really screwing up my life." Now that, is a statement that comes from someone who is most likely really hurting. Get past your fear, and talk to him. And always say "thank you for helping me, I appreciate it". You'd be amazed how little good PM docs hear this, and how good it makes them feel to be acknowledged.

I will cast a very good spell for these kinds of situations, for ya. Hey, it worked for me. Anybody else want their name in the pot? I'll have good people from here ta Ireland workin' with me on this one. And we are one bunch of mighty and tenacious good Wiccans, I assure ya.

[upstate_007]

I will cast a very good spell for these kinds of situations, for ya. Hey, it worked for me. Anybody else want their name in the pot? I'll have good people from here ta Ireland workin' with me on this one. And we are one bunch of mighty and tenacious good Wiccans, I assure ya.

I'll take all the help I can get. I have not been able to find a compassionate doctor in the last two years.

Your info and insight is a real blessing for me when I feel hopeless sometimes.

[TOOL]

TOOL, I so know where you're comin' from, as well. I used to have the very same kind of fear you are talkin' about, when I first saw a PM Dr. He was just plain nutz, tho. I never knew who I would see everytime I went in, Jekell(sp?) or Hyde. So I was always afraid to speak up, b/c of me fear that I'd get cut off.

I have learned much since then, and now have a great PM doc. And one of the most important of these things is to not be afraid to tell your Dr. that you are still miserable, and that your meds are not working as you had hoped. Be honest, and say that you've been afraid to say anything for fear of being cut off. If he is one of the good ones, he will understand, and make some changes in your meds. It took me currant doc about 6 mos to finally get me dialed in with the proper meds, in the proper doses, to see me start getting some of my life back.

Any PM Dr. that gets disgruntled, or puts shame upon a patient for telling them that they are still hurting so much that they cannot get their lives back, shouldn't be in a PM practice, in me big-mouthed opinion. I've said this many times: remember that your Dr.s work for YOU. You are paying them to provide a service, and that service is all important. It is your health and your life that is greatly affected by CP, and there is no need for it. It can be managed, with appropriate care. Even DEA cannot screw around with "appropriate care."

If you get anything negative from a dr., because you tell him you are still in pain, it is time to start searching for a new one. That's something that should be an ongoing process for you, if you are not out of pain. But, really, it could be your own fears (which I went thru the very same, bigtime, early on) that are causing you to think that he might just cut you off for being in pain, still. It's not your fault. It's not his fault. He can't know what's goin' on with ya, unless you tell him. Bring him into a simple, human level, in your mind and heart, and approach him as you would a friend that you respect. From that place, perhaps both you and he, could get the ball rolling on getting you out of pain, and get ya smilin' again.

No decent PM doc wants their patient to be in pain. That's what they are there for, and you are not asking to increase your meds/doses, you are simply stating a fact that he needs to know about, in order to treat you effectively. It's the patient who comes in, asking for a particular C2 med by name, that raises suspicion, not someone like you. Practice in the mirror 10 times a day saying, "Dr., I am still in pain. I've been afraid of telling you about it b/c of the currant atmosphere (or whatever is YOU. You'll figure it out). Is there anything you can do to help me get out of this? Because it is really screwing up my life." Now that, is a statement that comes from someone who is most likely really hurting. Get past your fear, and talk to him. And always say "thank you for helping me, I appreciate it". You'd be amazed how little good PM docs hear this, and how good it makes them feel to be acknowledged.

I will cast a very good spell for these kinds of situations, for ya. Hey, it worked for me. Anybody else want their name in the pot? I'll have good people from here ta Ireland workin' with me on this one. And we are one bunch of mighty and tenacious good Wiccans, I assure ya.


Wow thank you so much, that is one of the most uplifting and encouraging things anyone has ever said to me about this. I wish I had the power to give you rep points because you really made me feel much better about my situation, and I would appreciate any spell (good spell that is) you can send my way. My mother was into witchcraft (green) and I know there are differences between that and Wicca, there are so many variations ...and I am very open minded spiritualy as you can see by my favorite influence in music(TOOL) ..... Thank you and I wish many good things to you and yours!!! :)

[southernbelle]

PTO Mom told me to post this story in the hope that it'll make the cp'ers feel just a little better.

There was once a renowned neurosurgeon at the hospital where I work. The man was brilliant, but had the bedside manner of a flea. Actually, the flea was probably more compassionate than this freak was. Anyway, any time any of his patients complained of being in pain and asking for something besides w/e crapola he was giving them post-op, he put "drug seeker" in their charts. Now we all know this kind of shit follows you around for the rest of your life, don't we?

Well, the day came when *he* had to have a disc fusion. As soon as he woke up he starts screaming about needing more pain meds. He's in pain dammit, don't they understand??? He's always up at the nurses station screaming and crying about how HIS pain is different, it's worse!......and guess what the nurses say? "Why Dr. Kellett, you're getting the same pain meds you give YOUR patients, we just don't understand why it's not working!" hehehehe, yeah, that time he got some of his own back, wouldn't you say?

Hope this makes some of you feel better, or at least gets a chuckle or two.

[upstate_007]

Hope this makes some of you feel better, or at least gets a chuckle or two.

My God that story made me feel warm and fuzzy all over. I am not one for wishing harm on people, but I really hope that fucker went through hell for a while. Furthermore, I really hope it changed his outlook for his patients in the future.

[Princess]

I love that story Belle!
Glad you posted it for everyone!

[Boudica]

Well, that was quite the lil "day brightener" for me.

Thank ya, darlin'. I SO needed that.

[Synack]

I haven't read everything yet - but something is up with my doctor too.. I checked my records last week ,and she entered 'Synack displays no potential for addiction, has passed every profile and shows concern for the future of his condition' ..

[starglazer33]

gosh, computer down for like 39hrs and you would think i was actually afraid to miss this post and 20's so much that i almost dragged my cane and cloak(it's cold as the keepers hands where i am)and my waste of a mentality out to my favorite place 'the library' to post/check out posts more like.

alright please 'trow' my name in da pot always cuz i cannot practice as i've already mentioned its too early for coming outta my retirenment."i learned my lesson early on and lost a lot to it."thats a whole nother issue, still study hard dough. i am cursed from the olden days by a band o very black fuckers whom i know to be way too competent(well one of dem anyways the one i pissed off da mostest)+ or = i 'm currently livin' wit my g-parents can't have em goin into strokes and heart attacks.%no privacy included)lately bout14 months everything i say and do is almost always twisted around and not taken for what it really is. i know there could be a break in my system but i also know that there is a person out there who is evil and when found out that i was a good person and not just playing around about we both keened each others eyes and i came out way on top. since then my life's not quite been the same.(real wizards and thier games)a masculane thing im sure))and has never been fun for me. if not for the age old trick, new to the books ((at least openly))i.v.e.m.(isometric vector equilibrium matrix)The contunuum of energy its speed and the course of its directionblah blah blah i would not have come out on top, at times, i fear not come out at all. anyways say a lil prayer for me will ya? tech im fucked cannot block at all yet i feel it almost all the time.(for image i am irish/(american) born in da states. long, though receding red hair, beard same,blue eyes basically a criminal looking jesus on a box of lucky charms (god i love cereal) and you basically get the idea.J.A.H. initial label. i am a good person though. "and sometimes when i feel confused, id walk a path i did not choose. Watch my life on video a private homemade horrorshow"SKYCLAD-Martin Walkyre ever here em? he's been my alive hero all my life well since13 to now 33. he's in a new band now called The CLAN-DENSTINED yup he's genius:D but he recently quit to write books over some producer/money/music-bis problems:mad:. chx him out.

anyways i was serious with what i proposed. i am even considering leaving my neck of the wood due to recent developments here in similar, very similar situations. yet even if i do i will do everything in my heart and will to cause constructive change from afar. its amazing what appropriately placed literature can do. my mouth is big and times a plenty for me so i would love to help. i am already working on a paper called methadone treatment : mary's misery factories. but its such a touchy issue cuz i gotta not do anything to cause any detriment to the current situation yet still try and alight people to the positives of the programs at the same time which is proving difficult. in the end i may even have to scrape the whole thing cause i'll figure out ahead a time pros and cons and if anywhere near each other, forget it. truth is as delicate as a flower made of glass in a hurricane on an ocean pier.:(
anyway gotta go whole lotta love and all positive thoughts for you and yours.

whole lotta wait a min................prescribed above sg33

man robojunkie your very hmmm? hard for me to look up to people cuz thay always disappoint later on but fuck it if i could i would i admire the way you write and what you say also agree 100%and your brilliant

[CrankySailor]

and don't forget folks, for the DEA's budget to rise every year there has to be a larger problem for which they are needed. They've essentially become the jackboots right now. Even the Purdue Pharma case was partially a scam.

Who needs access to pain meds?

Here's an example, me!

First, I was on hydromorphone, which worked the best and allowed me to prosper at work (even got a new job on it). But that was scary for the docs to continue post surgery. so, I've been on gaba anti-epileptic drug for months now, in addition to hydrocodone/apap for radiculopathic leg pain. the combo works so-so, and slows my cognitive skills, and some of you know where I work and know that is not a good thing.

Last week I'm out of the country. I have the vicodin, but don't have the Lyrica. one day without it, I go into uncontrolled diarrhea, slow thinking, headaches, etc. Five days of hell, but hell all is well 'cuz Lyrica isn't an opiate.

I've gone days and a week without opiates, and no problem. this new high-tech (and expensive) drug had me on the floor in a foreign country for a week.

The DEA needs to be shut down and hear their masters - less control over the marketplace. Shit, Rush is still out on the street, so....

disgusted man, me.

[underide]

I haven't read everything yet - but something is up with my doctor too.. I checked my records last week ,and she entered 'Synack displays no potential for addiction, has passed every profile and shows concern for the future of his condition' ..

you into hacking, synack?

[upstate_007]

First, I was on hydromorphone, which worked the best and allowed me to prosper at work (even got a new job on it). But that was scary for the docs to continue post surgery. so, I've been on gaba anti-epileptic drug for months now, in addition to hydrocodone/apap for radiculopathic leg pain. the combo works so-so, and slows my cognitive skills, and some of you know where I work and know that is not a good thing.


I am on the same combo my man. While it seems to work somewhat for the pain I am in, the side effects from the Lyrica are getting to be too much. The weight gain, the zombie feeling, the fogginess. I know its not from the hydro either. I have been on low doses of hydro for almost two years and these side effects did not start until I took the Lyrica.

[CrankySailor]

I am on the same combo my man. While it seems to work somewhat for the pain I am in, the side effects from the Lyrica are getting to be too much. The weight gain, the zombie feeling, the fogginess. I know its not from the hydro either. I have been on low doses of hydro for almost two years and these side effects did not start until I took the Lyrica.

Yep, the weight game and edema are a big problem w/ Lyrica - especially for women.

I do agree that Lyrica seems to turn down the volume on the pain. it doesn't eliminate it. For me, dilaudid just about eliminated the pain and, except for the first two days while my body adjusted to it, I was fine cognitively. it's the only drug that has worked, except for buccocal fent.

What scares me about Lyrica now is we don't know how it works, what it impacts, plus the fact that it has potential cancer relationship - at least, with mice. I've already had systemic cancer, and am at risk for leukemia as a second cancer (due to one of the chemotherapy agents I got), and I really don't want to take anything to egg that beast on one bit.

So, because of our gov't, I'm offered a drug that costs tens times more, doesn't work as well, has the worst withdrawl symptoms I've ever experienced.... does this make sense?

no.

and 007, do not abruptly stop taking the Lyrica. even if your doctor says it isn't a problem. it can be.


PTO Mom told me to post this story in the hope that it'll make the cp'ers feel just a little better.

There was once a renowned neurosurgeon at the hospital where I work. The man was brilliant, but had the bedside manner of a flea. Actually, the flea was probably more compassionate than this freak was. Anyway, any time any of his patients complained of being in pain and asking for something besides w/e crapola he was giving them post-op, he put "drug seeker" in their charts. Now we all know this kind of shit follows you around for the rest of your life, don't we?

Well, the day came when *he* had to have a disc fusion. As soon as he woke up he starts screaming about needing more pain meds. He's in pain dammit, don't they understand??? He's always up at the nurses station screaming and crying about how HIS pain is different, it's worse!......and guess what the nurses say? "Why Dr. Kellett, you're getting the same pain meds you give YOUR patients, we just don't understand why it's not working!" hehehehe, yeah, that time he got some of his own back, wouldn't you say?

Hope this makes some of you feel better, or at least gets a chuckle or two.

this gets a gold star in my book. oh belle!

Cranky

[Synack]

bump for a thread that I'm hoping gets shit rolling...