Romancing Opiates is a waste of time and money

[Soda]

I've seen it advertised on the main page, and gave it a read, and I just thought that I should let you guys and ladies know how appaled and surprised I was to discover that the book is HANDS DOWN an anti-opiate piece of propaganda that decribes withdrawal as nothing serious and insults any user of the drug.

IT IS EDUCATIONAL and worth reading if you WANT TO SOMEDAY BE FREE FROM OPIATE SLAVERY, and feel that opiate use is a problem, and not a choice.

But if you feel that opiates are misunderstood, and problems only exist because of the fascist drug war, I want to warn you that this book supports both the drug war and the idea that every opiate is evil.

I know I WANT to be more clear about how this book effected me, but I am trying to describe it the best I can.

-Soda

EDIT:
I am kicking as I write this:o. And even though it's not that bad, I feel like I'm dying.
You could say, "well, you know Soda, every addict says their habit is a choice". But to that I would say, "doesn't that mean it's true?
Nothing is going to convince me that opiates are poisonous chemicals derived from plants that God created SOLEY to make us all sick.
Although, God's sense of humor is very different from our own.:rolleyes:

[Raz]

Soda, tell us a bit more about this book...Should opi be advertising it? Good luck wiv your kick, i'll be doin same next week!!

[Soda]

A good direct question deserves a good direct response.
Opiophile is more than a website, because it represents a community of human beings who I so happen to value as much as my sister or my friend. Any site that respresents people who have felt pain in their lives has great power and great responsiblity, reminiscent of Spider Man.
Nevertheless, the fact the propaganda exists in a book does not deprive the book of its value.
Every intelligent author or human being is guilty of some form of propaganda or manipulation, if they did not practice such things, their voices would be lost in the sea of other voices.
So, in conclusion, there is nothing wrong with advertising this book, and in fact it speaks to Opiophile's objective attitude towards the use of drugs.
No one is saying it is a harmful choice inevitably, and no one is saying it is a cool choice.
That's how I feel.
-Soda

EDIT:
I have to sleep now, goodnight and thank you for a good and intelligent question.

[Raz]

I will probably check it out for myself...I am readin the Alchemist at the mo..Hope ya get asleep, thats what we get deprived of when kickin.....

[Soda]

20 mg valium did the trick.

[Raz]

Wordhttp://forum.opiophile.org/images/icons/icon12.gif

[SurfRat]

The author is an alcoholic hypocrite and a philistine.

[pharmboy]

It looks like a Amazon ad, the site probably didn't have any

choice as to what book was used in the ad.:cool:

[Soda]

Interesting observation. You're totally wrong.

[dpop12]

people not registered can see that book advertisement. so perhaps, its just a facade opiophile puts up in order to keep from raising any red flags...

[EleusisII]

Besides, we're junkies... Yeah we'll flog a book we disagree with! Know a better way of paying for hostingfees and drugs?

[Soda]

I hope it's not a facade for opiophile's sake, as far as I knew there was nothing wrong with this site, so if they are using an anti-opium book as a coverup, I think this calls for impeachment.

[clinton]

I think this calls for impeachment.



of what or who soda?

[Soda]

people not registered can see that book advertisement. so perhaps, its just a facade opiophile puts up in order to keep from raising any red flags...


Of opiophile.
Facades themselves are red flags.

[Saint]

I was a bit surprised to see this book advertised on the homepage too. I've seen the author being interviewed on tv a while ago and he was a real arrogant prick.
He's seriously claiming that kicking is 'no big deal' and that people complaning about aches and pains in withdrawals are nothing but moaners and whiners because kicking is nothing more than a 'one week flue'.
I remembre being totally pissed off with the guy. I wish he would feel for himself what it's like to be on methadone and heroine for decades and then quit.. wonder if he still thinks it's 'no big deal' then.
The worst part is that many people actually believe him and automatically assume that all junkies in WD's are exagerating comedians.

[ein0606]

yeah i read all the customer responses on amazon and it was disgusting. there was 4 pags full of "yeah i know this one guy who is addicted and i thought he was in real pain in WD but nowi know its no big deal" shit like that. and one CP patient who calledhim out and was like how the fuck would you know and he typed his story kinda sad.

what a fucking prick. and even worse are the ignorant people that beleive the propaganda.

ok well im gonna go to the local hospital and pop my head in the room of a woman giving birth (i am male) and tell her to shut the fuck up with the moaning and ibitching.

[kyuss]

ok well im gonna go to the local hospital and pop my head in the room of a woman giving birth (i am male) and tell her to shut the fuck up with the moaning and ibitching.


It makes me sick.
Everyone knows
childbirth is painless.

[ein0606]

It makes me sick.
Everyone knows
childbirth is painless.


haha thats my point, this dude is trying to get people to believe WD's at shit

[clinton]

what makes him think its a FRont ?
has he been addicted to opiates ?
this is as bad as when doctoRs used to say that menstRual pain was all in the head oF the woman..
actually my health teacheR told me that when i was in 9th gRade..
im not a woman but i knew it was completely absuRd.

[Soda]

The fucker has never touched an opiate, you know, as far as I can guess, and that's a pretty solid guess. If you have read the book, you know what I mean. It's EXACTLY the same as a guy saying childbirth is easy, EXACTLY the same.:(

[underide]

Childbirth IS easy...(with an epidural)
Fecal impaction is HARD

Not that i have first hand experience with either one, but thank god for that!

[Soda]

Childbirth and fecal impaction aside, I want to extend my support to those who agree with me.

[jacky]

I agree with the author...

kicking dope can be no big deal...

the first few times maybe, with a person who doesnt have an IV addiction, but more likely smoked or snorts their "gear".

but as use progresses into "chronic addiction" people will break their own bones to get painkillers, and fuck over their fellow man even when not experiencing intense withdrawl.

when a person saddles up a REAL heavy dope addiction, the consequenses grow...
I havnt read the book,
but if your done with withdrawls in weeks time,
you probably didnt experience alot of damage to your health.

some people I know, and me to a lesser degree, had some real health issues associated with use....and withdrawl effects in chronic addiction can cause lasting effects that can last
A FEW FUCKING YEARS..

what it sounds like to me, and I am going to get belligerent and hostile and childish here,

is that this author wanted to be a junky more than he actually was a junky.

he probably started using on the weekends, and finally ended up with a kids habit.

and now writes a book so he can maybe make 20,000$ to fund another binge,

and then maybe, just maybe,....he will find out what addiction can really do to a person.


I can downplay the ruin that opiates can have on a person, only in my case.
now that I dont use heroin, and only use opium products, and also have alot of helpful herbs like kratom and others, I dont have a problem with opiates. I dont take more and more, I feel the standard dose that I do take, and I am not constipated.
I dont nod out until I am sitting down, and at home(most times)...

but my withdrawl experience is still debilitating.
with herbs and chocolate, tea, vitamins, food, water, and loperamide, withdrawl is pretty easy to deal with yes...

but it is different for everyone.

I know one person who is jewish now that his god wiped away all opiate withdrawl effects one kicking experience.
it was spontaneous cessation of opiate withdrawl, attributed to the almighty lord.
in his case it was no big deal.

but this author is obviously a prick with his observation, and what more, probably has a sissys habit to worry about.

ha ha.

[nick]

Dalrymple.......that @XNT.Still,he's an ex prison doc and a well known fool.

He's doing a book signing and reading near me in London.Maybe I should go and punch him.

[Soda]

Jacky, I agree with the author as well, but not with the spirit in which he writes. It sounds you are of the same mind. The author suggests that addiction itself barely exists. At least, this was my interpretation.

The only thing you said that I take attention to: is your suggestion that the author himself was or is a junky.

[Soda]

Don't you think any junkie at some level feels he can stop whenever he wants?

[underide]

I haven't read the book either but i did click on the image link on the Opi homepage.
It leads to amazon where you can find it's review and stuff.
There is the author's quote from there:
"Man is the only creature capable of self-destruction, and only man decides in full consciousness to do what is bad, even fatal, for him..."

That is a rather bold statement to make. he must be forgetting lab rats, who would push the lever to self administer morphine and cocaine in preference to food and up to a point of sheer exhaustion.
He might argue that rats are not 'conscious' creatures in a sense that we are, but then going by that theory no other creature we know of is either(i.e there is no other creature we can possibly compare to) So that just makes his observation rather pointless by his own logic.

I have bumped heads with other people who say that opiate withdrawal is no worse than a bad case of flu.
That is such nonsense.
People who say such things have obviously never experienced the true despair of WD and the longing to just get psychologically well, that accompanies the 'flu' like physical symptoms, which in my case are tougher than any flu symptoms i've ever experienced
You can get over the major physical symptoms even in those cases (like Jacky pointed out) that take over a year or two of PAWS, but you might still be dealing with a heap of psychological baggage that would end up turning you back onto that 'life raft' that opiates seem to appear for people like me.

[Soda]

UNder ride's observation is one of the more astute and profound one's I've heard thus far.

[Soda]

In order to be happy we must first accept ourselves, then be accepted by others. If opiates enhance acceptance of ourselves, yay for opiates. If opiates retard our social acceptance, down with opiates.

I think the root of the drug problem, the root of illegalization, the root of this very website opiophile, is the social scorn opiate users are confronted with.

Sometimes the obvious observation is the answer.

[jacky]

well, this functional junky knows that he cant quit on the whim of the moment...

I have only kicked once without meds, in jail, with hep b, and kicking effexor at the same time (which has opioid activity, very similiar in structure as tramadol)....

and if I wasnt in there for 3-4 weeks, I would have gotten dope as soon as I got out.
I was clean for a month or so upon release.

for me its a drawn out weening process, and I muster at most 90 days "sobriety" in between using.

I have to have kratom, herbs, chocolate, vitamins, buprenorphine, methadone etc etc if I am going to even consider quitting.

its just too physically debilitating and mentally straining.
and then there is the work and money issue.

I am not caught in my addiction though.
its a religious and self choosen state of being.

anyway, I guess to some people minor addiction is possible.
when I first used dope for a month, I quit cold turkey, with only 1-2 nights of discomfort, and physically, most of the time I felt fine, actually, I felt better for not being on the stuff.
and then I only used at night....I wouldnt touch the stuff during the day.
imagine that......no morning essential opiate use.
that first kick was almost enjoyable...a few nights that I got 2-3 hours sleep, and a ruined sexual adventure due to me not being physically competent.

the next kick was over in 3 days with the help of a valium script...I was using IV at this point, and some very decent tar heroin.

after those initial easy kicks...I fell into a pattern of extreme IV use and having siezures only 2-3 hours into being dope sick.
I might have done dope 8-9 hours previous, but I would start getting dizzy head rushes and having minor seizures if I didnt get more.

kicking during this period usually meant not working alot, having an essential barrage of scripts and found pills to help out, muscled relaxers, down ramping on minor painkillers, donatal, robaxin, soma, anti siezure meds, xanax, klonipin, etc etc.

I have a will, but it requires medication reinforcement to get clean of opiates.

perhaps the author was a well to do user, moneyed up, and not worrying about his habit.
he could have used for a year or so, mostly managing his habit.
and had a easy time kicking.
if he was healthy and eating the whole time he was using, and not getting skinny, puking everyday, and loosing major weight, he may have had a quick recovery.
and how did he quit anyway?

ramping off of methadone or bup were some of the easiest kicks I ever weened through, a few months of careful math and lowering dose, and I felt pretty good within a few days of quitting.

I came off of a 200 mg oxy habit a day or more, by just taking tramadol...by day 3 I was feeling better.
by the end of the week, I was starting to notice euphoria and analgesia from the tramadol.

could be this guy just had a good expderience, but still to him, it seemed hard.

that is the best part about group therapy, there is always someone who has done more damage than you, especially when remembering all the dead junkies.

[nick]

Of course you never know for sure,but I REALLY doubt this guy is an addict.He's an ex prison doc and I suspect he's more into gin and tonic.

I'll ask him if I get to his reading.

[Mallinckrodt]

I agree the guy's an ass for belittling the life draining experience that is withdrawal, and a lot of the stuff in that book is nonsense, but he is against prohibition and the quote in my signature is one of his. . .I really like it, the comparison to the food chain really puts things in terms even the clueless prohibitionists can't deny.

I hope nobody holds this sig. line against me. I don't agree with the entire book, or even most of it, but that paragraph is brilliant.

[tptptp]

I agree with the author...

kicking dope can be no big deal...

the first few times maybe, with a person who doesnt have an IV addiction, but more likely smoked or snorts their "gear".

but as use progresses into "chronic addiction" people will break their own bones to get painkillers, and fuck over their fellow man even when not experiencing intense withdrawl.

when a person saddles up a REAL heavy dope addiction, the consequenses grow...
I havnt read the book,
but if your done with withdrawls in weeks time,
you probably didnt experience alot of damage to your health.

some people I know, and me to a lesser degree, had some real health issues associated with use....and withdrawl effects in chronic addiction can cause lasting effects that can last
A FEW FUCKING YEARS..

what it sounds like to me, and I am going to get belligerent and hostile and childish here,

is that this author wanted to be a junky more than he actually was a junky.

he probably started using on the weekends, and finally ended up with a kids habit.

and now writes a book so he can maybe make 20,000$ to fund another binge,

and then maybe, just maybe,....he will find out what addiction can really do to a person.


I can downplay the ruin that opiates can have on a person, only in my case.
now that I dont use heroin, and only use opium products, and also have alot of helpful herbs like kratom and others, I dont have a problem with opiates. I dont take more and more, I feel the standard dose that I do take, and I am not constipated.
I dont nod out until I am sitting down, and at home(most times)...

but my withdrawl experience is still debilitating.
with herbs and chocolate, tea, vitamins, food, water, and loperamide, withdrawl is pretty easy to deal with yes...

but it is different for everyone.

I know one person who is jewish now that his god wiped away all opiate withdrawl effects one kicking experience.
it was spontaneous cessation of opiate withdrawl, attributed to the almighty lord.
in his case it was no big deal.

but this author is obviously a prick with his observation, and what more, probably has a sissys habit to worry about.

ha ha.

You agree with the author but haven't read the book? That's quite the leap of faith to put it nicely.

Just a cheap way for him to make a buck. Not to mention the author is a hypocrite who thinks alcoholics are ok and doin't dasmage society but opiate addicts are a scourge that destroy it. Browsing over a few reviews luckily I saw at least one person write that up...thankfully some reviews called his shit somewhat at least. Shows you how many sheep (erm "reviewers") believe anything.

That books been up forever, I'm assuming it was chosen...I hope billi doesn't know about it? but I don't think he'd likely change if it we told him. He may not think it should come down anyways if we did.

[Raz]

If this author is givin out a blanket opinion on kickin he's full a shit....How can you compare something like a small bag or 2 a day habit, (which is still a habit) to someone bangin an eighth a day of primo gear For yrs .That is just crazy...My 1st kick was pretty easy, no big deal after a 6wk binge.A few sleepless nights, but no projectile vomitin ,comin outta both ends....
Fast forward 20yrs when i tried to kick my 8yr meth use cold turkey....My wife wanted to have me committed .And hid my passport, cash etc...Suffice to say it got so bad she actually said " For fucks sake go and find a bit"..This was in a strange country,didnt speak the lingo and didnt know where the hood was...Long story short; i found what i had to and got well.And the missus dropped the idea of havin me put in the local nuthouse.....Yeah, kickin is no big deal; MY ARSE!! Which he can fuckin kiss...Coz that really is no big deal, just pucker up!!

[Soda]

Nice one Raz, wouldn't want to write a book saying bad shit about you anytime soon.

[starglazer33]

anyone claiming kicking is no big deal is obviously never had the pleasure. i say lets get em'. force feed him m.done for a few yrs. then take it away all at once and just say aaah no big deal.
see what he writes then?

[Nate]

I've read through the reviews, that was enough for me....Horse shit in my opinion, how I'd like to piss in his face while hes going through major withdrawls, just the flu right, all in you head right? pfft

[Soda]

We're violent, we have to admit that. Anyway, yeah, if you guys are gonna fuck him up I'm staying out of it. I'll just film it, unless that's a crime.

[strikks]

i will have to admit, this threads title confused me,i now understand! as it so happens today is my 35 birthday and I AM SICK AS FUK!!! the asshole dealer is still sleeping at 10:18 am(i wish i was) and i have had my share of kicks and yeah all three of them was in jail and forced and ,as i know how hard meth is from seeing those poor fellas in jail that are getting 120mg at the clinic were way worse than me at a brick a day habit, but to each his own!!

i have seen people with bad habits kick with absolutley no help cause of (insert family member here) and in my experience if you do not kick it for YOURSELF give it up you may make it but you will never stay there,yes it was my choice to put the needle in my arm and yes it was my choice to do up all my shit last nite thinking i could get somthing this morning but any asshole who says withdrawl is no big thing, a case of the flu for a week

BULL SHIT IT LASTED 4 WEEKS FOR ME LAST TIME AND I THOUGHT I WAS GOING TO DIE, HELL I WANTED TO DIE!! but as i said it was my choice and what can i say this guy cannot know first hand what REAL WD is all about or he would have a profound respect for anyone who has a habit and kicks sucessfully even be it for a while cause............................................. ....."ONCE IN A WHILE YOU GET SHOWN THE LIGHT,IN THE STRANGEST OF PLACES ,IF YOU LOOK AT IT RIGHT"

PEACE!!!









0

[Soda]

The title of this thread is genious. Soda is smart, eh

EDIT:
I find myself more clear headed and more attractive off opiates, attractive to others at least, i dont know if people are attracted to vulnerability, but without opiates, even kicking, people are super nice to me. maybe they just remember me opiated and have sympathy, but i still think there's something about this whole sobriety thing that will probably get me kicked off opiophile...

[Cherry's Jubilee]

I didn't want to start a whole new thread but I just wanted to say I'm reading this book right now and this guy is a self-righteous, arrogant fucking prick. I would pay money to see his stupid ass in full-blown cold turkey withdrawal after a year on high doses of methadone. I always thought I'd never wish dopesickness even on my worst enemy. Now I know I would wish it on Theodore Dalrymple. That's all.

[Narkotikon]

Don't know of any book called that, but romancing opiate use is stupid in general. I think most of us have probably done it to some extent in the past though. I know I have.

During junior and senior year of college I'd lay on my dorm room bed, listening to The Deftones "White Pony" album over and over while chugging Tussionex. How pathetic now that I look back on it. It felt all romantic and 19th century-like. LOSER!

[HandMeSomeOpiates]

I didn't want to start a whole new thread but I just wanted to say I'm reading this book right now and this guy is a self-righteous, arrogant fucking prick. I would pay money to see his stupid ass in full-blown cold turkey withdrawal after a year on high doses of methadone. I always thought I'd never wish dopesickness even on my worst enemy. Now I know I would wish it on Theodore Dalrymple. That's all.
Thanks for letting me know. I was always wondering if that was good.

[PrisonHer]

"ONCE IN A WHILE YOU GET SHOWN THE LIGHT,IN THE STRANGEST OF PLACES ,IF YOU LOOK AT IT RIGHT"











0

cuz it seldom turns out the way it does in the song..or in this case book.

[taj]

I just read in one of the Amazon reviews on this book that the author suggests that addicts should not be offered clean needles, hoping that fear of HIV and hepatitis would be an incentive for addicts to take less drugs.
What?! It seems odd that a book advocating this standpoint would be advertised on a Harm Reduction website.
Just my 2 cents

[Soda]

I just read in one of the Amazon reviews on this book that the author suggests that addicts should not be offered clean needles, hoping that fear of HIV and hepatitis would be an incentive for addicts to take less drugs.
What?! It seems odd that a book advocating this standpoint would be advertised on a Harm Reduction website.
Just my 2 cents

There's more than 2 cents to that point. That's the whole thing that stuns me. The book is really an antithesis to everything about opiophile.

[ryan]

During junior and senior year of college I'd lay on my dorm room bed, listening to The Deftones "White Pony" album over and over while chugging Tussionex. How pathetic now that I look back on it. It felt all romantic and 19th century-like. LOSER!

Damn man, to me that sounds like a fun time LOL!
I loved that CD when it came out...I wasn't into opiates then though, but I have to admit I've spent countless nights getting high and listening to music and I do not consider that pathetic or myself a loser for doing so :)

[Cherry's Jubilee]

Don't know of any book called that, but romancing opiate use is stupid in general. I think most of us have probably done it to some extent in the past though. I know I have.

During junior and senior year of college I'd lay on my dorm room bed, listening to The Deftones "White Pony" album over and over while chugging Tussionex. How pathetic now that I look back on it. It felt all romantic and 19th century-like. LOSER!

Damn man, to me that sounds like a fun time LOL!
I loved that CD when it came out...I wasn't into opiates then though, but I have to admit I've spent countless nights getting high and listening to music and I do not consider that pathetic or myself a loser for doing so :)

what in the hell are you guys talking about?

[Narkotikon]

Damn man, to me that sounds like a fun time LOL!
I loved that CD when it came out...I wasn't into opiates then though, but I have to admit I've spent countless nights getting high and listening to music and I do not consider that pathetic or myself a loser for doing so :)

The act of listening to the music and getting high wasn't what made me consider it being a "looser." It was the fact that I felt cool and thought I was the shit for doing it. I mean, yes, I like opiates, but I still feel like my life would have been better had I never gotten addicted. That's what I meant.

what in the hell are you guys talking about?

See above. My original post was saying something like I didn't read / know about the book, but I used to "romance" opiates or the idea of them, and how I look back at that now and think "how stupid was I?" I think a lot of us have probably done that at some point or another, especially early on. So I don't feel too bad about it. But, yeah, I just don't think "OMG, I'm so fucking cool for getting high" now.

[resorcinol]

This guy comes across as a really arrogant narcissistic asshat.

How the fuck would he know what opioid w/d even feels like (and if he DID have a habit and it was mini like 80 mg hydrocodone per day or something ... he's felt MILD w/d but not FULL BLOWN mega w/d).

Personally: I can see where the "it's like a flu" crap could have come from. When I'm in w/d, I "look", according to others, like I have the flu, mono, or a really bad cold. But it's all what they DON'T see that makes w/d as bad as it is. The akathisia and crippling anxiety, panic attacks, physical inability to get comfortable, sweat that makes you feel cold (but put on a jacket and sweat more till you feel wet and disgusting, so take the jacket off and feel even COLDER). They don't see the GI, bone, muscle, and joint pain. The suicidal despair. Ugh, it pisses me off. The surface appearance looks like a viral infection, but it feels SO MUCH WORSE.

[SHELLEY]

You can get over the major physical symptoms even in those cases (like Jacky pointed out) that take over a year or two of PAWS, but you might still be dealing with a heap of psychological baggage that would end up turning you back onto that 'life raft' that opiates seem to appear for people like me.

i'm calling shenanigans on paws:
4 1/2 years of heavy iv heroin and cocaine use
followed by 1yr of methadone use up to 120mg
super fast 2 month methadone taper (5mg every 3 days) to drop off at 9mg
i've been off for a couple months, what is this paws?
i never had it after my kick ended in jail, and i don't have it now
i think its a hell of an excuse to start getting high again and nothing more

I didn't want to start a whole new thread but I just wanted to say I'm reading this book right now and this guy is a self-righteous, arrogant fucking prick. I would pay money to see his stupid ass in full-blown cold turkey withdrawal after a year on high doses of methadone. I always thought I'd never wish dopesickness even on my worst enemy. Now I know I would wish it on Theodore Dalrymple. That's all.

this isn't a personal attack so don't take it as one
but every time someone says that w/d isn't as bad as we make it out to be
this is what i've heard time and time again from opi after opi after opi:

"i wouldn't wish opiate w/d on my worst enemy
EXCEPT for [person who dared to call us drama queens] he/she deserves it!"

which is it, you wouldn't wish it on your worst enemy
or you wish it on someone you never met because they don't take junkies at their word? :rolleyes:
sorry, i've just always found that funny as hell

[resorcinol]

I think PART of PAWS is simply this: for those of us who were depressed before getting addicted to opioids --- going back to depressed after the incredible beauty of day to day life with abundant opioids (it wasn't beautiful when supplies ran low) feels SO HORRIBLE. It's such that even if the depression is objectively equal to that before the depressed person got an opioid habit, the depression feels subjectively worse in contrast to the feeling of well being and health on opioids... even when not high and just maintaining to stave of any w/d symptoms. We tend to not realize just how much doses too small to cause a buzz are doing until we don't have anything: then we realize they're doing a lot indeed.

I can't totally discount a biological basis for some of PAWS though. Look at how it take a good long while for tolerance to get back down even close to opioid naive state. It makes perfect sense that, following this, your endogenous endorphin peptides, despite coming back after acute w/d, simply cannot stimulate the downregulated opioid receptors as well as they should to keep libido (towards life in general, motivation) and basil hedonic tone up to par.

[kjjy]

[quote=SHELLEY;358591]i'm calling shenanigans on paws:
4 1/2 years of heavy iv heroin and cocaine use
followed by 1yr of methadone use up to 120mg
super fast 2 month methadone taper (5mg every 3 days) to drop off at 9mg
i've been off for a couple months, what is this paws?
i never had it after my kick ended in jail, and i don't have it now
i think its a hell of an excuse to start getting high again and nothing more


I'm calling shenanigans on your shenanigans. Paw is very real
You are to young for noticeable paws. Wait and see.
Your the best

[digby]

To my mind, anyone that makes any kind of blanket statement that is supposed to cover and apply to all opiate related reactions is just plain ignorant and with even rudimentary research, should know better.

It is common knowledge and has been documented thousands of times in hundreds of ways that each individual responds differently to different opiates and different dosages. So to lump all withdrawal symptoms and characteristics into a single narrow profile is simply spitting in the face of both logic and science. I wouldn't expect to see that from someone writing a book on the subject.

[SHELLEY]

I'm calling shenanigans on your shenanigans. Paw is very real
You are to young for noticeable paws. Wait and see.
Your the best

wait and see? how bout if i don't start over?
lets see how long that'll last :o

[kjjy]

http://forum.opiophile.org/images/icons/icon13.gif Ok good attitude there.I have taken several months off. Then

go to Dr. complaining of strange symptoms. Battery of test latter

I'm ok. O well.

That better oxy good eye!!

[OxiContinKing]

how in the hell did you post just that thumb isnt there a minimum character limit to be able to post? its like 10 characters or something like that.

(confused)