Looking for a way out........

[StrungOutAgain]

Hi first and foremost I apologize in advance if any of these questions have been already asked and answered but I'm really looking for some comfort here cause I feel very lost and hurt not to mention confused with my current outlook on life. So I have colitis and I'm perscribed norco for the pain from it and I go through my script very quickly and thats down playing it. I can't keep going on like I am though seriously keep counting pills trying to go without as long as I can. I'm looking for a way out of this cycle.

I don't know which hurts me more at this point the pain from w/d's or the pain from the colitis. I just really would give anything to have my life back, hell I'm just 22 and I think I have a bright future ahead of me if I can put this to rest. So many things I'm worried about though for instance finding someone who can take my insurance I have medicaid and medicare, another is I don't want this big red stamp that says 'ADDICT'' on my file for the rest of my life. I'm just looking to get some help because this is getting out of hand..well its been out of hand I take anywhere from 230-300mg of hydrocodone a day. Which brings me to my next question is sub the right choice for me? I just really want to get clean mind you I do have real pain but I'm not sure how bad it really is with the w/d's masking it so much. I thought about methadone and don't wanna go that route at all. What if it turns out I take subs and I still feel pain? Does that mean I should go back onto a regular opiate?

Also will sub help with all w/d symptoms such as when I'm in w/d I can't eat a thing, will it help with that? I'm not looking to still use at all anymore just get on suboxone and get my life back. So anyone with any answers or advice please reply and thank you so very much in advance. I planned on called docs tomorrow to see when I could get in and such but I really wanted to know what you guys thought first. Also I know its gonna be hard to get a doc to script me tex rather than one because when I have had naloxone in the past I have gotten headaches. I've gotten naloxone in the form of talwinNX and it gave me the worst headaches ever.

Do you think I could tell the doctor that? Sorry for all the questions but I just wanna be fully aware of it all I've put this off for far too long and its time for me to be in control of my life again. Again thank you all for any input you can give me. Oh please don't start with the UTFSE shit. No one be a smart ass and say that now cause I mentioned it here I'm really desperate for help. Also any mods and such who read this and think its too long and needs to be broken into paragraphs feel free to do it, the reason I didn't was because I didn't know where the best place to break it up is.

-Chris

[ein0606]

chris

i dont know what to tell ya, but i feel your pain man. im not a pain patient but im 24 and get scripted methadone and sometimes i go thru way too fast, lately ive been good but i know the feeling of trying hold off as long as possible. it hurts. wish i could give you advice. but you arent alone man. i would just call your doc and be completely honest about your situation and see what he says.

one thing i will say is i wouldnt get on methadone if i were you. ive been fighting it for a alittle bit now and absoltely regret the fact im on it. but thats just me. it may help you for pain too.

good luck man.

[candyshop]

there is a sticky called "the complete guide to subs" or something very similar in the buprenorphine forum

it should be able to answer all these questions and more
there are also many many personal reports in the forum that address all this stuff

the search engine should be able to get you there if you have trouble navigating

good luck!

[HistoryofMadness]

sounds like your best bet would be a low-dose methadone treatment for pain mgt. if you are seriously just trying to treat pain and not to get high all the time.

i would definitely think the norco is the wrong way to go long term... you are killing your liver.

buprenorphine is not the answer IMO.

[GoddessofRATs]

I can't answer your questions. But in regards to your pain. I've heard countless times here and on other groups that people actually get wonderful pain relief from subs. One person even said the pain relief from Subs was better than the pain relief from their DOC.

So that is something to think about.

I wish you the best with all of this.

GOR

[EleusisII]

Jesus man... Calm down! If you have any specific questions, you might want to cut them out of your post, and ask them in the relevant forums. It's hard to help, when your questions are hidden in a long ramble like that. Do you have real pain? You take the pills to get high or for the pain?

In both cases, you're welcome... There's lot's of pillheads and painpeople in here.

Oh yeah btw: All that APAP in the vicodin will kill your liver. Extract the hydrocodone from the vicocin using CWE... Cold Water Extraction. Search the site for it...

[chopstix]

^^ I was going to say the same thing, please try and break you posts up, it's very hard to read 50 line sentences. No offense at all..

DO NOT get on methadone. That's a 400lb ball and chain that some people never shake.

Greatest thing about subs is: they're really easy to try out, especially when your DOC is Hydro. Some people claim great pain relief, some say they don't do squat. It was originally and still is prescribed for pain though so who knows..

You do need off of the Norco IMMEDIATELY - the tylenol WILL KILL YOU and it's likely you've already done a fair amount of damage - I really hope you don't drink on top of that shit.

Good luck man, are you in pain management? Sounds like you need it..

[WarmCyanide]

IMMEDIATELY[/B] - the tylenol WILL KILL YOU and it's likely you've already done a fair amount of damage - I really hope you don't drink on top of that shit.

..

exactly! even if there's less APAP in norco than the watsons, thats still too much!

[RHDISLNDJUNKY]

I think subs would be great they worked forme with my narco10/325 habit i got 120 a moth and ate 90 in 4 days and the subs helped me good luck, subs actually got me HIGH

[RHDISLNDJUNKY]

so now the doc gives me oxycodone 10/325 ...120 a month

[bored in sofl]

If you use subs do a quick taper. The w/d last like 2 weeks if you use subs longer than a month

[Cherry's Jubilee]

I'm going to be very honest with you because I am very much in the same place you are right now. I hate this cycle so fucking much and I feel like I'm cheating myself and everyone who loves me out of, well, me, and also that every minute I spend high is a minute of my life that I'm not really living. The stupid fucked up part is that everybody knows that the reason I'm saying this shit right now is because I feel like crap and I don't have a little bottle of hope to comfort me. I don't want to think about this every day forever. Have you read The Disease of Addiction? I'm going to post it here in a second.

That said, and I'm conflicted about this, but I'm going to encourage you to try to kick the habit on your own, not cold turkey, slowly tapering, with the support of a select few very good friends or family members. I'm saying this because (a) you're addicted to hydrocodone, which is still a very real and painful addiction, but it's not like you're selling your grandma's jewelry for heroin and (b) you're only 22 baby, you don't deserve to have the addict label stuck to you for the rest of your life.

I work in mental health and I feel like a total hypocrite but I also do substance abuse counseling on occasion. Ok, weekly. I lead a weekly substance abuse recovery group. Fucking karma. Anyway, I have immense respect for the people who seek help and are honest with their health care providers about their addiction. I also know first hand that once that Axis I diagnosis of a primary substance abuse/dependence disorder goes on your chart, it's IN your fucking chart. Your permanent fucking chart. And it affects the quality of health care you will receive for the rest of your life, and what kind of insurance you can get, and what claims will be denied, etc, etc,.

If we didn't have such a fucked up health care system I would say, Go get treatment. It works. And it does. And people do recover. This is only my opinion and you should do what's best for you but I've seen many of my clients face negative repercussions down the road for admitting a substance abuse problem. It's why I haven't done it myself. I know how you're feeling. And see? My post was just as long and complicated as yours so I'm even creating the same level of annoyance you are. High five...

[Suboxstitute]

OK - I'll try to sort out your questions.

One: Do you try to stay on norco, always run out, go thru w/ds which must be terrible with colitis: NO you don't want to do that. You have a sit-down, heart to heart with your doctor and tell him the meds are no longer working and if he he/she is willing, stay on opiates but on a different stronger regimen. I would not tell the doctor you are abusing them. Just say you have to take 2 to get pain relief but thats the most you say... and you are still in bad pain. ANd if you are going to take all the tylentol, search for CWE here or elswhere and do it it is easy.

TWO: Try subs (bupe). Research all you can, the naabt.org board is an advocy board so you will get the "pretty side". Heroin-detox, the ugly side. Yes, some people DO get pain relief with bupe. I get some for my back. CP patients usually split their dose over the day. Look for a GOOD doctor and just get a consultation (don't throw away your opiates yet!) See what they think. If you try and they do not work for pain, the oriinal doc may put you back on regular pain meds (we hope stronger of course).

THREE DO NOT GO BACK AND FORTH between your DOC and the sub - Sub can seem like a "miracle" for w/ds and cravings (at the right dose) but the more you switch off and back the worse they will work.

FOUR You do NOT want ADDICT wrriten on our chart. That is why you have a mature conversation with your pain doc in part one. Similarly, if you choose to try sub...try to use to use a different sub doc in a different insurance plan/health care system. And I know it is hard but do not use the same insurance to pay for both - it will cause the drugstore compuer's brain to blow up.

There is no rule that says once on sub always on sub... but the w/d permanently is not easy but can be done if you want off ALL opiates period. It can be done.

On a more permanent basis, it isn't hard to go back on pain meds jafter sub.....just wait a few days (so they will work). If you don't wait, nothin bad will happen they just won't work but they keep you out of w/d from the sub, while you are waiting..

But if you EVER take SUB with other narcotics in your system that is a BIG NO NO. DO NOT DO THAT. BAD THINGS WILL HAPPEN

hOPE THIS HELPES, SORRY SO LONG. .

[Suboxstitute]

If we didn't have such a fucked up health care system I would say, Go get treatment. It works. And it does. And people do recover. This is only my opinion and you should do what's best for you but I've seen many of my clients face negative repercussions down the road for admitting a substance abuse problem. It's why I haven't done it myself. I know how you're feeling. And see? My post was just as long and complicated as yours so I'm even creating the same level of annoyance you are. High five...

================================================== ==
Sicily I think we were posting our long posts at the same time. I SO AGREE with you on your point above and it is SO FUCKED UP. If I knew now what I knew then, I would have gone to a place 80 miles away, sucked it up and paid cash for everything, and my health system/HMO here would be NONE THE WISER. I HATE this.

Now I am afraid that no matter what I will never get adequate pain mgmt again although there are good guidelines out there for treating bupe patients for pain.... doesn't matter worth a SHIT.

I am getting up there (pulls out the cane) at 51, and although I look 31 (ha ha, ok41)... I WILL need pain management for my back an other things. And everyone's gonna be scared to write.
Even though I purposely signed a very limited release. Only guys don't know are oral surgeon and dentist.....


Sue

[Cherry's Jubilee]

Suboxstitute, jinx...;) It's so ridiculous. I have clients who have completed treatment programs and have been clean for years and that's so hard to do and they're such courageous and amazing people and if they got their hand lopped off in a fucking wood chipper or something, they'd get extra-strength aleve. It's so wrong.

People who admit to having a substance abuse problem deserve pain relief just as much as anyone else. It's just a little more complicated--like having pill counts, or additional treatment meetings while you're being treated for pain, or other precautionary steps. But that's not what happens. They do something admirable and get fucked up the ass. I'm sorry you've experienced that. It sucks and it's very very wrong.

[Cherry's Jubilee]

Disclaimer: I did not write this and I am not preaching to anyone. I just found it very, very powerful...

The Disease of Addiction
Hello,
I am your disease.
I am cunning, baffling, powerful, and slick. You will never see me coming until I have you by the throat, gasping for your life. I am a disease that has been around since the beginning of time, and you are just a beginner. You will think like all beginners think. That you can handle me, you are not that bad, maybe once in a while, or that you are different. I will keep talking to you because you listen; after all I am a disease that tells you that you are not sick. I hate when you go to treatment, go to those stupid meetings, obtain a higher power and attend counseling. You fool! I am a very patient disease and will wait until you stop treating me and then I will destroy you. Not only will I destroy you, I will also destroy your family and friends. I promise to take away your dreams. Your new dreams will be to stay high and wasted. You will feed me alcohol, heroin, cocaine, pills, pot, and speed. I will teach you to lie, cheat, and steal. Slowly you will realize that I am your best friend, lover, and higher power. I will always be there when you are lonely and I will fill that empty feeling within. I will consume every cell in your body and bring about many new sufferings such as aids, liver, heart, pancreas, reproductive, skin, and brain diseases. Most importantly, I will rule your mind; your every thought will be of me. I promise to be there when you get out of the hospital; I promise to be there when you get out of prison. I also promise to be there when you die. For now, let us have fun.
Yours forever,
The Disease of Addiction

[Young Professor]

Strung out- If you are in pain and anticipate that you will be on these for a while, then you should inquire about long acting narcotics....Like the Duragesic patch or Oxys. When you first starting taking pain meds, they last the full duration and then some. Over time, tolerance builds and the brain receptors crave more and more endorphins to fire normally. Thus, you develop what is called the "ups and downs." You feel good/ok when the meds are going in or you just took them, but due to the above, they only last a couple of hours tops. Then the "downs" kick in which is the receptors screaming for drugs.

Long acting meds build up in your system, otherwise known as "blood plasma levels." Once these plasma levels build up, you feel better. The downside is that it's tough to get really "high" anymore because the drug is always there. You can get a buzz, but not high. But, if you're having legitimate pain, getting "high" probably isn't a priority. As most on this forum know, the best way to get "high" is have the drugs out of your system and then take a heavy dose all at once.

Hope this info helps, and good luck!

[Suboxstitute]

So StrungOut did we help or did you get more confused by the minute?? :confused:

[bluide*devil]

Then the "downs" kick in which is the receptors screaming for drugs.

you may notice these screaming receptors in action via my avatar. sure, they *look* cute...

[StrungOutAgain]

Wow thank you all for giving me so much advice in this time of need. While I don't have much time to give a long reply here cause I want to go back and read and read over again to think about everything. I just wanted to let everyone know how much I appreciate their input. Also to whoever paragraphed it, thank you as well. I will give a well thought out reply a bit later. Just know that I'm touched cause of all the replies this has gotten. Also I want to apologize for my horrible grammar in my OP but I was freaking out cause I'm at my wits end. Please check back later for my reply.

[StrungOutAgain]

Well things have taken a huge turn for the worse now me and my dad got into a big fight with him even breaking my glasses. He says I get on a program or I get out. So fuck pain really and fuck tolerance as far as he's concerned. He can't seem to understand why I need to many pills to manage my pain. I'm really at a loss for words on what to do here. I have no place else to go and I thought my dad understood my pain. I guess not, I have no choice but to choose subs or meth but I can't go everyday to dose so I'm so fucked on how to deal with this. I never once thought the thread title 'looking for a way out' would mean of my life. If anything this was supposed to save my life if there's anything at all worth saving.

[Princess]

StrungOut~
You can get methadone prescribed for pain. You don't have to go to a clinic..... I have been prescribed methadone numerous times for my back pain and it DOES help.

I would try methadone, if that is one way that would be "acceptable" to your dad. Otherwise, take the advice everyone has given you, make your own decision and DON'T tell your dad. You are old enough.

Its not the end. You have lots of options.

[chopstix]

I have to respectfully disagree with the methadone suggestion; I think he either needs a pain specialist or to re-evaluate his current specialist. Methadone is evil IMHO and probably not a very logical step from Hydrocodone.. It seems to me that oxy or duragesic would be a more appropriate solution..

Who is prescribing the Norco? It really seems to me that you aren't receiving adequate pain management..

And FWIW man, I have similiar issues with my old man, probably not on the same level as he lives two states away, but he simply doesn't grasp the severity of my medical needs and regularly minimizes it or acts like he's not even aware of it while he's been told over and over that it's a chronic, clinical condition; and I'm effectively disabled without the meds - he just doesn't get it.. Frustrating..

[Princess]

I have to respectfully disagree with the methadone suggestion; I think he either needs a pain specialist or to re-evaluate his current specialist. Methadone is evil IMHO and probably not a very logical step from Hydrocodone.. It seems to me that oxy or duragesic would be a more appropriate solution..

Who is prescribing the Norco? It really seems to me that you aren't receiving adequate pain management..

I only said methadone because he said methadone or subs were his only options. (He didn't say these were the only options). I can only speak in favor of methadone because it always works well for me for pain. I've never taken subs.

[chopstix]

I only said methadone because he said methadone or subs were his only options. (He didn't say these were the only options). I can only speak in favor of methadone because it always works well for me for pain. I've never taken subs.

OK, I see now where he wrote that, I'm curious as to why he thinks that. I've been through wd from many opiates but methadone was by far the worst, I should have been hospitalized and probably would have been if I didn't have access to some compazine to keep me from puking long enough to get hydrated, I actually didn't succeed in that wd, wound up caving in after about a week.. Ever since that experience, methadone scares the shit out of me, I can't even describe how sick I was it was so bad..

I know md is prescribed for pain but to my knowledge, not very often, seems like oxy and fent are usually the next steps up from truckloads of hydro..

[Princess]

People have different reactions to different meds. Methadone never caused a problem for me. Fentanyl, however, is a different story. I run out every month... and the withdrawls are worse than heroin for me. Fent is the only drug that has ever given me w/d's.

In Arizona, methadone is frequently prescribed for chronic pain. Here, you have to use methadone before they will even consider starting the fent train.

Anyway, I wouldn't scare the OP out of methadone, especially for chronic pain. I know a lot of people it has helped, including myself. If this is one of the 2 options available to him, I think he should consider it.

[Inspektahdek]

I think subs would be great they worked forme with my narco10/325 habit i got 120 a moth and ate 90 in 4 days and the subs helped me good luck, subs actually got me HIGH

ok

so now the doc gives me oxycodone 10/325 ...120 a month



.ok.............................................wa it! You told your doctor you were addicted to hydrocodone so he gives you a stronger narcotic with more quantity? This is baffling :confused::sad-smile

[Suboxstitute]

I don't know how old you are or how dependent on our parents you are, but your dad breakin your glasses in a fight is NOT cool. Try to get OUT of that environment; it'll be worth it.

[StrungOutAgain]

Wow I can't believe I missed that guy who said he was addicted but got bumped up to a stronger narcotic. There's a few things that really piss me off in this one is that I'm going through w/d right now some fucking time huh? So in massive pain trying to decide what I'm going to do now. The second thing is that my docs fucked around so long before figuring out whats wrong with me that I'm dependent on meds now and wow I suddenly have a tolerance and no one wants to up the meds. Till this very day their still unsure if its colitis. I'm even wondering if they do perscribe pain meds for it? The doc I get my hydro from is my plain old reg doc because I once went to pain mgt and since they had no clue what was wrong with me he didn't wanna see me anymore. Also my doc will deny anything stronger than hydro is made. So methadone that way is out of the question and fent is laughable.

[El Dave]

Disclaimer: I did not write this and I am not preaching to anyone. I just found it very, very powerful...

The Disease of Addiction
Hello,
I am your disease.
I am cunning, baffling, powerful, and slick. You will never see me coming until I have you by the throat, gasping for your life. I am a disease that has been around since the beginning of time, and you are just a beginner. You will think like all beginners think. That you can handle me, you are not that bad, maybe once in a while, or that you are different. I will keep talking to you because you listen; after all I am a disease that tells you that you are not sick. I hate when you go to treatment, go to those stupid meetings, obtain a higher power and attend counseling. You fool! I am a very patient disease and will wait until you stop treating me and then I will destroy you. Not only will I destroy you, I will also destroy your family and friends. I promise to take away your dreams. Your new dreams will be to stay high and wasted. You will feed me alcohol, heroin, cocaine, pills, pot, and speed. I will teach you to lie, cheat, and steal. Slowly you will realize that I am your best friend, lover, and higher power. I will always be there when you are lonely and I will fill that empty feeling within. I will consume every cell in your body and bring about many new sufferings such as aids, liver, heart, pancreas, reproductive, skin, and brain diseases. Most importantly, I will rule your mind; your every thought will be of me. I promise to be there when you get out of the hospital; I promise to be there when you get out of prison. I also promise to be there when you die. For now, let us have fun.
Yours forever,
The Disease of Addiction

It is certainly powerful. For they who can believe in a higher power of the "God" class, probably powerful enough to save some people, and it's good of you to send it. However, not everyone has that luxury. Some of us can't turn to God to save us from ourselves.

About seventeen years ago my wife and I were crack addicts. Three years. We were never busted, never attended meetings.. we did have to leave the country for seven years, and we did end up in the bosque digging for tubers to feed our daughter, and we did end up slinking out of there so the dealers wouldn't take out my kneecaps. I've walked through a line of M-16 bearing Nat'l Guardsmen doing a sweep through some caserios for drugs with my pockets full of coke (thank the Lord for being a gringo!), had to stand down men at gunpoint.. no resume here, but I'm just saying I'm not without experience. However, my wife and I quit doing crack in, of all places, New York City. Our solution was simple, we arrived with nothing but the clothes on our backs and had to stay with family until we could get back on our feet. No place to cook up any rock or smoke it, and that got us through the hardest part, and then we carried pictures of our daughter around to see us through the remaining years it took to get over it.

Now, I'm close to sixty. I love my wife, but she is a stranger to me, we are so different. For a long time I had another girlfriend that made up the difference, and we were happy but then the other lady decided my wife should be dealt out of the deck, and there's no way. Big sissy romantic, heartbroken, I did find that hydrocodone eased the pain of separation. I suppose I was addicted, supply got cut off.. between proglumide and tapering I handled it pretty easily.

Now I have a new girlfriend, one who will never "pull a Jenny on me" because she has a husband that puts her in the same category as me.. permanently committed to one, wanting to be with another. But her husband doesn't know about us, wouldn't accept it, and so we hardly ever see one another. She's young, has young children to take her mind off it, and does have those in common with her husband. No more details, this is already too long and going to be longer.. my question to you is, for they who cannot turn to a God (and believe me, I'm not saying that He doesn't exist.. only that I've seen no proof of it), for those of us who have no children to take care of (ours are grown), for those of us trapped in circumstances that so often make us pray not to wake up, what solution is there other than dope? Chronic pain isn't always physical. There are situations to which there is no solution, and when one is living in such situations, "getting high" means "not experiencing pain". It's not a transition from "normalcy" to an undeserved chemically induced state of happiness, it's a transition from a (deserved or undeserved, what's the difference?) state of despair to a state of "normalcy" in which one can at least function, get some work done, help pay the bills, etceteras.

As powerful as the "I am your disease" message is, I think it ignores some rather important issues. The majority of people in my position simply take one lead pill and problem solved. That's not an option for me because my Mom, children, and wife wouldn't forgive me. So what would you suggest as an alternative to dope? I ask because reading your posts it seems you're intelligent, caring, and experienced, and I will seriously think about whatever you say, even if it's not what I want to hear.

-El Dave

[Princess]

Great post, El Dave.
I don't have many words to express what all went through my mind when I read that. I can relate to what all you said, in so many ways.
From my chronic pain, emotional pain of a failed marriage, being a mother to being the other woman.
I think I started using more when I *knew* my marriage wasn't going to work.
Emotional pain and chronic pain don't go well with addiction.
I don't have the answer either. I wish I did.


It is certainly powerful. For they who can believe in a higher power of the "God" class, probably powerful enough to save some people, and it's good of you to send it. However, not everyone has that luxury. Some of us can't turn to God to save us from ourselves.

About seventeen years ago my wife and I were crack addicts. Three years. We were never busted, never attended meetings.. we did have to leave the country for seven years, and we did end up in the bosque digging for tubers to feed our daughter, and we did end up slinking out of there so the dealers wouldn't take out my kneecaps. I've walked through a line of M-16 bearing Nat'l Guardsmen doing a sweep through some caserios for drugs with my pockets full of coke (thank the Lord for being a gringo!), had to stand down men at gunpoint.. no resume here, but I'm just saying I'm not without experience. However, my wife and I quit doing crack in, of all places, New York City. Our solution was simple, we arrived with nothing but the clothes on our backs and had to stay with family until we could get back on our feet. No place to cook up any rock or smoke it, and that got us through the hardest part, and then we carried pictures of our daughter around to see us through the remaining years it took to get over it.

Now, I'm close to sixty. I love my wife, but she is a stranger to me, we are so different. For a long time I had another girlfriend that made up the difference, and we were happy but then the other lady decided my wife should be dealt out of the deck, and there's no way. Big sissy romantic, heartbroken, I did find that hydrocodone eased the pain of separation. I suppose I was addicted, supply got cut off.. between proglumide and tapering I handled it pretty easily.

Now I have a new girlfriend, one who will never "pull a Jenny on me" because she has a husband that puts her in the same category as me.. permanently committed to one, wanting to be with another. But her husband doesn't know about us, wouldn't accept it, and so we hardly ever see one another. She's young, has young children to take her mind off it, and does have those in common with her husband. No more details, this is already too long and going to be longer.. my question to you is, for they who cannot turn to a God (and believe me, I'm not saying that He doesn't exist.. only that I've seen no proof of it), for those of us who have no children to take care of (ours are grown), for those of us trapped in circumstances that so often make us pray not to wake up, what solution is there other than dope? Chronic pain isn't always physical. There are situations to which there is no solution, and when one is living in such situations, "getting high" means "not experiencing pain". It's not a transition from "normalcy" to an undeserved chemically induced state of happiness, it's a transition from a (deserved or undeserved, what's the difference?) state of despair to a state of "normalcy" in which one can at least function, get some work done, help pay the bills, etceteras.

As powerful as the "I am your disease" message is, I think it ignores some rather important issues. The majority of people in my position simply take one lead pill and problem solved. That's not an option for me because my Mom, children, and wife wouldn't forgive me. So what would you suggest as an alternative to dope? I ask because reading your posts it seems you're intelligent, caring, and experienced, and I will seriously think about whatever you say, even if it's not what I want to hear.

-El Dave

[Inspektahdek]

Hi first and foremost I apologize in advance if any of these questions have been already asked and answered but I'm really looking for some comfort here cause I feel very lost and hurt not to mention confused with my current outlook on life. So I have colitis and I'm perscribed norco for the pain from it and I go through my script very quickly and thats down playing it. I can't keep going on like I am though seriously keep counting pills trying to go without as long as I can. I'm looking for a way out of this cycle.

I don't know which hurts me more at this point the pain from w/d's or the pain from the colitis. I just really would give anything to have my life back, hell I'm just 22 and I think I have a bright future ahead of me if I can put this to rest. So many things I'm worried about though for instance finding someone who can take my insurance I have medicaid and medicare, another is I don't want this big red stamp that says 'ADDICT'' on my file for the rest of my life. I'm just looking to get some help because this is getting out of hand..well its been out of hand I take anywhere from 230-300mg of hydrocodone a day. Which brings me to my next question is sub the right choice for me? I just really want to get clean mind you I do have real pain but I'm not sure how bad it really is with the w/d's masking it so much. I thought about methadone and don't wanna go that route at all. What if it turns out I take subs and I still feel pain? Does that mean I should go back onto a regular opiate?

Also will sub help with all w/d symptoms such as when I'm in w/d I can't eat a thing, will it help with that? I'm not looking to still use at all anymore just get on suboxone and get my life back. So anyone with any answers or advice please reply and thank you so very much in advance. I planned on called docs tomorrow to see when I could get in and such but I really wanted to know what you guys thought first. Also I know its gonna be hard to get a doc to script me tex rather than one because when I have had naloxone in the past I have gotten headaches. I've gotten naloxone in the form of talwinNX and it gave me the worst headaches ever.

Do you think I could tell the doctor that? Sorry for all the questions but I just wanna be fully aware of it all I've put this off for far too long and its time for me to be in control of my life again. Again thank you all for any input you can give me. Oh please don't start with the UTFSE shit. No one be a smart ass and say that now cause I mentioned it here I'm really desperate for help. Also any mods and such who read this and think its too long and needs to be broken into paragraphs feel free to do it, the reason I didn't was because I didn't know where the best place to break it up is.

-Chris


Subs do nothing for my pain except make it possibly worse on some days. It does nothing but ejaculate all over your mu, kappa, delta opioid receptors high affinity binding to relieve W/D. Doesn't hit that one part that does more on pain relief because bupe doesn't pass the BBB well, im trying the SJW experiment that I made OP in the other to see if NORbup is helping with pain, not sure yet, WHERES ROBO? robo would norbup be better at pain relief action?

[Inspektahdek]

chris

i dont know what to tell ya, but i feel your pain man. im not a pain patient but im 24 and get scripted methadone and sometimes i go thru way too fast, lately ive been good but i know the feeling of trying hold off as long as possible. it hurts. wish i could give you advice. but you arent alone man. i would just call your doc and be completely honest about your situation and see what he says.

one thing i will say is i wouldnt get on methadone if i were you. ive been fighting it for a alittle bit now and absoltely regret the fact im on it. but thats just me. it may help you for pain too.

good luck man.


you're not a pain patient and you are prescript --ed methadone? Please tell me how this can be achieved. Thanks

[Inspektahdek]

^^ I was going to say the same thing, please try and break you posts up, it's very hard to read 50 line sentences. No offense at all..

DO NOT get on methadone. That's a 400lb ball and chain that some people never shake.

Greatest thing about subs is: they're really easy to try out, especially when your DOC is Hydro. Some people claim great pain relief, some say they don't do squat. It was originally and still is prescribed for pain though so who knows..

You do need off of the Norco IMMEDIATELY - the tylenol WILL KILL YOU and it's likely you've already done a fair amount of damage - I really hope you don't drink on top of that shit.

Good luck man, are you in pain management? Sounds like you need it..


Yes APAP is bad for the liver but I used to have a friend who would international express mail me 100's of norco hydrocodone he got online for a small fee of course ;) I ate 20+ at a time, I did this for almost 2 years, I first started this board going on the hydro board more because that's what I was getting and hydro was new to me because we don't have it here. And I fell in love and I kept sending money to a friend who had bags of garbage full of these things, the norco. This was until I built a tolerance of near 300mg, etc. maybe a little lower and it was not worth my time or money, I became broke, and could not pay rent and was negative € in my konto big time.


I had a blood test, within the last few months from my surgeon in the klinikum and she said at first, elevated liver enzymes! I thought of oh no! Then we did the more thorough test and alles klar. ALL GOOD :)

Elevated liver enzymes because I smoked 2 100mcg patches before my surprise visit to get 8 vials of blood drawn. So yes, very thorough and I think the APAP is bad, take milk thistle at the vitamin store, I know I've taken too much before because it makes me fucking throw up mann.

However, permanent damage I think is HIGHLY exaggerated! :::> yes it causes damage but not as bad as one would think, my liver was in perfect shape on the second test with 8 vials, only elevated because I smoked alot of WET FENT before going to the first 2 vial test. So keep the APAP down, by all means do a CWE, but don't stress it too much, I'd say do part CWE and eat some as well. APAP also relieves pain, no? Sure does when I have become to drunken.


cheers,


dek'

[El Dave]

Great post, El Dave.
I don't have many words to express what all went through my mind when I read that. I can relate to what all you said, in so many ways.
From my chronic pain, emotional pain of a failed marriage, being a mother to being the other woman.
I think I started using more when I *knew* my marriage wasn't going to work.
Emotional pain and chronic pain don't go well with addiction.
I don't have the answer either. I wish I did.

Perhaps there isn't one. You wouldn't believe some of the things I read that are supposed to be answers... "grow up and be a man".. "get a life.." "make your choice and live with it..". All those are answers that simply say the person hasn't walked this trail yet, so has no understanding of the issues.

You have, and I truly feel for you. I'm not sure that I can agree with "emotional pain and chronic pain don't go well with addiction", though. So far, drugs are the only thing I've found solace in. A steady diet of proglumide seems to do a lot for the tolerance issue, and gimme 50 or 60 mg of hydro, a sunny day, and a long cruise on my bike, and sometimes I'm actually almost as happy as when my girl sneaks over for a visit. Other than that, 600-700 mg of tramz a day keeps the demons at bay, and I just can't see that as a bad thing.

I guess my point is that although I might be an addict, a controlled addiction isn't always the worst thing in the world. The operative word is "controlled", and I think proglumide is one of the main differences. that stuff not being available over the counter is a crime.

Thank you for your understanding and letting me know I'm not alone out here.

-El Dave

[Princess]

You for sure aren't alone.
My comment about chronic pain, emotional pain and addiction not going well together was mainly for me. There aren't enough drugs to kill my physical pain & my emotional pain... and being an addict, well when I get *anything* it doesn't last nearly long enough.
My story is a long one. I won't bore anyone. Getting away from the man I was having an affair with is best for me, I've been trying to break away for 6 months and he's making my life miserable. I have been second best for the past 12 years, between my husband and him (4 year affair).. I can't take it anymore. Finding something *real*, for what it's worth, would change a lot for me.
Sigh.
But, no Dave, you are NOT alone.

Hang in there. PM me if you need to talk.

Perhaps there isn't one. You wouldn't believe some of the things I read that are supposed to be answers... "grow up and be a man".. "get a life.." "make your choice and live with it..". All those are answers that simply say the person hasn't walked this trail yet, so has no understanding of the issues.

You have, and I truly feel for you. I'm not sure that I can agree with "emotional pain and chronic pain don't go well with addiction", though. So far, drugs are the only thing I've found solace in. A steady diet of proglumide seems to do a lot for the tolerance issue, and gimme 50 or 60 mg of hydro, a sunny day, and a long cruise on my bike, and sometimes I'm actually almost as happy as when my girl sneaks over for a visit. Other than that, 600-700 mg of tramz a day keeps the demons at bay, and I just can't see that as a bad thing.

I guess my point is that although I might be an addict, a controlled addiction isn't always the worst thing in the world. The operative word is "controlled", and I think proglumide is one of the main differences. that stuff not being available over the counter is a crime.

Thank you for your understanding and letting me know I'm not alone out here.

-El Dave