DEA: Intentionally Ignoring "Mr. Big" ?

[More Feen]

Hey guys,

I've heard 2nd-hand of some DEA agents leaving the dept. because they know who the big dealers/importers are, but never go after them.

Instead, they knock-off some of the smaller dealers at the bottom of the pyramid. Of course, with these "great drug busts" there are over-hyped headlines in the papers--Safer Streets for All, and the like. All promoting the great job being done by the DEA.

I pose this question for this forum: What if the DEA did an incredible job and rid the streets of most of the drugs? Would this not eventually lead to their department getting less money, since drugs are no-longer the problem they once were?

Would it not be in their best interest to keep the "Mr. Bigs" around to ensure they have continuous funding and business (and jobs) for the future. They could even be working with "Mr. Big" to take out known sub-dealers that aren't liked by him.

Great for headlines, great for business, great for just about everyone. I mean, does any really have a tough time finding their DOC? Maybe its not always 100% available, but it certainly isn't very hard to get.

[EleusisII]

Sorry bro, but that really sounds like a stoner-conspiracy story...
"DUUUDE! The CIA INVENTED crack man!"

I've met quite a few LE people in that line of business, and a lot of those I met are committed. Yeah, they get jaded and so on, but they really believe that they're fighting the good fight, and doing a great service to the community.

And completely hypothetically speaking, what would happen to the DEA if the war on drugs was "won"? I guess they would focus on other aspects of the agencys mandate. It's not just streetdrugs that they deal with.

If you work in the federal government, you're usually set for life. You don't get the boot because there's nothing to do, you get transfered to a different department or agency.

[HistoryofMadness]

even if they could win the war on drugs, they wouldn't. but they can't. the 'mr. bigs' of this world are powerful business men and they do use their power to corrupt others.

winning the war on drugs would be like trying to win a war on pizza. as long as beer drinkers get hungry there will be pizza. as long as we get high there will be drugs.

it would help if they would address some of the real problems that help keep drugs available. but they'd have to admit these problems first and that aint happenin...

so its a non-starter question, because they can't accomplish their mission anyway.

[nick]

even if they could win the war on drugs, they wouldn't. but they can't. the 'mr. bigs' of this world are powerful business men and they do use their power to corrupt others.

winning the war on drugs would be like trying to win a war on pizza. as long as beer drinkers get hungry there will be pizza. as long as we get high there will be drugs.

it would help if they would address some of the real problems that help keep drugs available. but they'd have to admit these problems first and that aint happenin...

so its a non-starter question, because they can't accomplish their mission anyway.

They might be better off addressing why so many folks feel the need to get high.

[EleusisII]

Heh... Human nature, nick... Human nature!

You got a kid, right? Just wait til your kid is old enough (2-3) to spin around in a circle to get dizzy. The need to get high/change your perception of reality is builtin...

[More Feen]

Hey, those were all good responses, so far. I liked the "stoner conspiracy" assumptions--you're absolutely right, it does sound that way.

Any way, this seocnd hand person says the "first-hand" person left the DEA to work for the FBI because he became disilllusioned with the DEA never going after the "really big guys."

That part is about as true as the truth can get.

My reasoning as to why the DEA would do this lead me to those conclusions/ questions posted above. And yes, my cannabis-addled brain probably lead to those hypotheses.

Thank you all for the reasonable input!

More than just a friend, more than a fiend,
More Feen

[robojunkie]

Well, this isn't such a far out theory, how many times throughout american other countries' histories has this type of shit occurred? Granted dea is likely less corruptible than other narc units, but this isn't the highest type of corruption and this is the type of thing that is even more likely to occur and has in the past. Yes, eleusis dea may be "dedicated" (the word I would have chosen is "obsessed like sisophus") but this is like all generalizations, sometimes true, but always full of exceptions, especially in their jaded veterans. Idealism is often the luxury of the young. So, anyway, I don't necessarily believe this is department wide nor is it "official policy", I'm sure there are units and maybe even branch directors that buy into this job security mentality justified with a realization that they truly will never not only win the drug war, they will never even have any long term successes that can be sustained past the next day's newspaper.

[EleusisII]

Thing is Robojunkie, I don't think they even need to be concerned about "job security". The drug war is fucked enough as it is, without needing help from the DEA, if you know what I mean.

There are plenty of medium fish ready to jump up to the big leagues if one of the big ones get caught.
And they DO catch the big ones. Think of Pablo Escobar who did most of the cocainesmuggling in the 80ies. Or this Mexican druglord in Tijuana who got captured last year.

[robojunkie]

Yes, but how long were Pablo Escobar, the Cali cartel guys and the Felix bros (Tijuana) able to operate, especially in places where I somehow imagine there wasn't too much concern about "building a proper case", ie where they could walk in and kidnap them a la Manuel Noriega?

I know they'd still have jobs, either bustin' on docs' asses, or in the FBI or CIA, but its basic propaganda, to have a "big" enemy with which to constantly be doing battle. It puts a "face of evil" on their war on drugs. So the average brainwashed american can go and say "there, there's the son of a bitch who's poisoning our children (who we'll now imprison because now they aren't victims, they're scumbags too)! Let's spend whatever it takes to vanquish this evil!"

It's easier propaganda-wise, to rally the masses around an enemy with a face, especially a foreign face, than it is to rally them around a war on the average junkie or pothead, whom the american public picture as homeless and stealing or slouching on the couch drooling. Get where I'm coming from? I'm not saying this or that is fact per se, just that there is logic and history behind the concept.

[Raz]

All depends if he supports Uncle Sam or not?.....Coz this business goes way further than junkies gettin high,the revenue supports a lot of things that are no way connected wiv gettin high.Idealogy etc,so called freedom fighters etc etc...

[havok]

I think the reason they haven't busted the "big" time dealers is because those guys are smart enough to not be in a situation where they can be arrested. Most big dealers never touch their product and have many people under them that handle all the "business". Therefore, it takes alot more time and money to make a case against a drug kin pin, than your average street dealer. Sometimes it is impossible to bust the big dealers if they are smart enough. Usually it requires an undercover detective to get involved in the drug operation, which is no easy task. Or they have to bust a low level guy who is willing to flip and testify against the higher ups. This is why big dealers have lots of "expendable" people below them who usually don't even know the head of the operation, therefore they couldnt testify against the kingpin even if they did get busted and flipped.

[Raz]

I think the reason they haven't busted the "big" time dealers is because those guys are smart enough to not be in a situation where they can be arrested. Most big dealers never touch their product and have many people under them that handle all the "business". Therefore, it takes alot more time and money to make a case against a drug kin pin, than your average street dealer. Sometimes it is impossible to bust the big dealers if they are smart enough. Usually it requires an undercover detective to get involved in the drug operation, which is no easy task. Or they have to bust a low level guy who is willing to flip and testify against the higher ups. This is why big dealers have lots of "expendable" people below them who usually don't even know the head of the operation, therefore they couldnt testify against the kingpin even if they did get busted and flipped.
Sorry, i was talkin bout source....

[havok]

Sorry, i was talkin bout source....

You mean the people that import drugs into the US? That is who I am talking about, the big time dealers who import the stuff. Those guys are even harder to bust, so that is probably why the DEA is even less likely to go after them. There is just no way they could bust them, unless Mr. Big makes a big mistake and the DEA gets really lucky.

As long as there is a demand for illegal drugs, there will always be people who are willing to supply them. The DEA, or anyone for that matter, will never be able to stop the flow of illegal drugs.

I know they'd still have jobs, either bustin' on docs' asses, or in the FBI or CIA, but its basic propaganda, to have a "big" enemy with which to constantly be doing battle. It puts a "face of evil" on their war on drugs. So the average brainwashed american can go and say "there, there's the son of a bitch who's poisoning our children (who we'll now imprison because now they aren't victims, they're scumbags too)! Let's spend whatever it takes to vanquish this evil!"


I think this is true also. If the DEA got rid of all drugs (hypothetically), then there would be no more need for the DEA, hence they would loose their jobs/funding. It is in the DEA's self interest to keep the drugs flowing. It is pretty hypocritical.


Thing is Robojunkie, I don't think they even need to be concerned about "job security". The drug war is fucked enough as it is, without needing help from the DEA, if you know what I mean.

There are plenty of medium fish ready to jump up to the big leagues if one of the big ones get caught.
And they DO catch the big ones. Think of Pablo Escobar who did most of the cocainesmuggling in the 80ies. Or this Mexican druglord in Tijuana who got captured last year.

Sure they bust some big fish every once in awhile, but that is a tiny fraction of the drug smugglers world wide. I think they only went after Pablo Escobar after he became so well known in the media.

[Raz]

You mean the people that import drugs into the US? That is who I am talking about, the big time dealers who import the stuff. Those guys are even harder to bust, so that is probably why the DEA is even less likely to go after them. There is just no way they could bust them, unless Mr. Big makes a big mistake and the DEA gets really lucky.

As long as there is a demand for illegal drugs, there will always be people who are willing to supply them. The DEA, or anyone for that matter, will never be able to stop the flow of illegal drugs.



I think this is true also. If the DEA got rid of all drugs (hypothetically), then there would be no more need for the DEA, hence they would loose their jobs/funding. It is in the DEA's self interest to keep the drugs flowing. It is pretty hypocritical.
What i really meant was, the regimes behind the supply.Like the afghans who fought against soviet invasion.It was better to let them keep their own route of fundin open, instead of uncle sam payin for it...
If uncle sam can take out Saddam ,pretty sure he could fuck up the dope supply if he really wanted to....This is a very complex political ? I cant even imagine what kind of finance is generated....

[havok]

Ya, I agree that the DEA could easily stop the production in Afghanistan if they wanted to. However, like I said above, if there is less supply, there is less work for the DEA to do in the US. That means less jobs and less funding.

Also, cutting the supply in one area like afghan will only cause the supply to increase somewhere else. As long as there is a high demand, someone will supply that demand.

[Raz]

^^^ all too true.But i guess uncle sam will always make the call.Let em ride or take em down.And if it doesnt fit in with their world order.It will be "takem down".....Fuck if drug suppliers messed wiv the oil supply, then you would see some action.....Raz

[Thebane]

I don't think the DEA alone could take down the big supplies overseas even if they wanted to. I'm pretty sure they have a huge number of armed guys under them, nearly standing armies. I remember to take down Escobar they used a lot of US special forces and the help of his country's military. And he still evaded capture for a long time because he was a hero there and could just stay in any house/town in the area he was born in and no one would say a word to the military/government.

Especially in somewhere like Afghanistan where "warlords" or whatever you want to call them practically control(led) the country. And I doubt the local government could even take them down militarily if they wanted to. Of course if the US Army went in too I guess they could, but that would be a huge operation and blatant disregard of sovereignty unless the government there cooperated.

[havok]

I don't think the DEA alone could take down the big supplies overseas even if they wanted to. I'm pretty sure they have a huge number of armed guys under them, nearly standing armies. I remember to take down Escobar they used a lot of US special forces and the help of his country's military. And he still evaded capture for a long time because he was a hero there and could just stay in any house/town in the area he was born in and no one would say a word to the military/government.

Especially in somewhere like Afghanistan where "warlords" or whatever you want to call them practically control(led) the country. And I doubt the local government could even take them down militarily if they wanted to. Of course if the US Army went in too I guess they could, but that would be a huge operation and blatant disregard of sovereignty unless the government there cooperated.

Um, you know that we already invaded Afghanistan with the US Army and pretty much took over the whole country right? If we wanted to, we could have easily stopped the production of poppies there. However, isnt it interesting that afghanistan is now producing more heroin than it did before we invaded.

Even if the army had not invaded, the DEA has the power to use the army and special forces for its own purposes. They could easily take out a few "warlords" on their own.

[Raz]

I don't think the DEA alone could take down the big supplies overseas even if they wanted to. I'm pretty sure they have a huge number of armed guys under them, nearly standing armies. I remember to take down Escobar they used a lot of US special forces and the help of his country's military. And he still evaded capture for a long time because he was a hero there and could just stay in any house/town in the area he was born in and no one would say a word to the military/government.

Especially in somewhere like Afghanistan where "warlords" or whatever you want to call them practically control(led) the country. And I doubt the local government could even take them down militarily if they wanted to. Of course if the US Army went in too I guess they could, but that would be a huge operation and blatant disregard of sovereignty unless the government there cooperated.

Hola Mr Thebane, thanks for the rep points .I didnt really understand the system, but thanks.I got some neg points too, so my life is now over...Well over untill the next chase...Ha ha
Back to the point at hand.Escobar actually got apprehended,Assassinated, by a small unit called "search bloc".A dedicated unit within the columbian police force.But what was more behind his down fall was the chaos he put the country through.He was actually labled a narco terrorist.And then after so many attrocities a group callin themselves "los pepes", the victims- who fought back against pablo's intimidation .And started killin people in Pablo's organisation, soley in retalliation....
I honestly think wiv a country so capable of power as america, it all comes down to economics..If the Drug trade interferred wiv the balance of payments etc.Then America would intervene.
I enjoy a good debate,especially from the other side of the Atlantic.....Raz

[Thebane]

Hola Mr Thebane, thanks for the rep points .I didnt really understand the system, but thanks.I got some neg points too, so my life is now over...Well over untill the next chase...Ha ha
Back to the point at hand.Escobar actually got apprehended,Assassinated, by a small unit called "search bloc".A dedicated unit within the columbian police force.But what was more behind his down fall was the chaos he put the country through.He was actually labled a narco terrorist.And then after so many attrocities a group callin themselves "los pepes", the victims- who fought back against pablo's intimidation .And started killin people in Pablo's organisation, soley in retalliation....
I honestly think wiv a country so capable of power as america, it all comes down to economics..If the Drug trade interferred wiv the balance of payments etc.Then America would intervene.
I enjoy a good debate,especially from the other side of the Atlantic.....Raz

Yeah, I remember seeing a documentary on Escobar and how he blew up a plane, assassinated a presidential candidate, etc.. Definitely not the best way to keep publicity down.

[Thebane]

Um, you know that we already invaded Afghanistan with the US Army and pretty much took over the whole country right?

Of course... You also do know Afghanistan isn't the only country making drugs. I'm just saying it's not easy to take down a huge criminal, well-armed organization in a sovereign country that doesn't want to cooperate. We didn't invade Afghanistan to stop the drug-trade, I'm just saying I doubt the US govt. would invade Thailand or any other SE Asian country in order to stop heroin production, it's just not practical.

I'm not saying this theory is right or wrong, obviously the fact Afghanistan is still producing heroin raises some questions.

[Raz]

Yeah, I remember seeing a documentary on Escobar and how he blew up a plane, assassinated a presidential candidate, etc.. Definitely not the best way to keep publicity down.
This dude was something else , the columbian gob let him build his own fuckin prison..This man was a serious phenomenon....Another example of the mighty dollar.He set out on the right path, buildin schools and hospitals...But once American Aid came into the equation, it was no contest,Escobar had to go.If my memory is cool(who knows after all these drugs), i think it may have been when America coined the phrase War On Drugs?... But you'll know dat better than i....Raz

[Raz]

This crop in Afgahistan this season is a bumper crop of opium, back to the days pf pre russian invasion.These guys are seriously gettin on wiv their farmin....

[nick]

This dude was something else , the columbian gob let him build his own fuckin prison..This man was a serious phenomenon....Another example of the mighty dollar.He set out on the right path, buildin schools and hospitals...But once American Aid came into the equation, it was no contest,Escobar had to go.If my memory is cool(who knows after all these drugs), i think it may have been when America coined the phrase War On Drugs?... But you'll know dat better than i....Raz

Nixon coined the phrase "the war on drugs."

It's worth noting that the demise of Pablo and the Medelin cartel did not decrease the supply of coke.All it achieved was to give us the Cali cartel who were far more organised and ruthless.

It's also rumoured that U.S. intelligence passed information on to anti Pablo death squads which resulted in the murders of men,women and children.

[Raz]

Nixon coined the phrase "the war on drugs."

It's worth noting that the demise of Pablo and the Medelin cartel did not decrease the supply of coke.All it achieved was to give us the Cali cartel who were far more organised and ruthless.

It's also rumoured that U.S. intelligence passed information on to anti Pablo death squads which resulted in the murders of men,women and children.
Hola Amigo, who rattled your cage?!!Seriously, good to see you got up of your arse an posted.Genuinely giv me a smile..
Oh yeah,wat u say is verbottim.The u s intell was workin wiv "search bloc".They only pulled back when it was suspected u s intell was gettin to Los Pepes,via search bloc...This is a real interstin subject...Raz

[nick]

Hola Amigo, who rattled your cage?!!Seriously, good to see you got up of your arse an posted.Genuinely giv me a smile..
Oh yeah,wat u say is verbottim.The u s intell was workin wiv "search bloc".They only pulled back when it was suspected u s intell was gettin to Los Pepes,via search bloc...This is a real interstin subject...Raz

Yeah,it's the dirty under belly of the drug war.

A crew of rogue DEA agents got bust a year or two ago for trafficing coke from Colombia.I guess they just gave up and decided to make some money.

Hell,most of the major opium producers in Afghanistan are key U.S. allies in the war on terror.So,there's no busting them.

[SuperJunky]

Keep in mind that a year or so before the us invasion the taliban had managed to almost completly stop the production of opium, on some supposed religiouse basis, though from what I understand it was to push the price of opium higher so they could get more money from the sell off of there opium stockpile. It was only after the US knocked out the talibans rule that poppy production returned in any significant quanity.

[starglazer33]

man robo u smart..

dats a compliment cuz information is the why are we here? phylisophic answer.
anothr one people just hate don't weanna beilive or are in denial but the meaninig of life in scope the asnwer is a simple and very unpopular " your dying the moment your born" sorry off topic.

A>......T.F make money D>E>A get a job. public happy when thay ssee a bust thay don;t care about specifics. just another headline

I know god is above sex but =Phlogisten Verdigris said" if god were suddenly forced to live the life he himself has inflicted on man he would surely kill himself". (off a typ o n leaf)

Sg33 with much respect your threads/posts are very sound and clinically informative.to me anyway

[Raz]

man robo u smart..

dats a compliment cuz information is the why are we here? phylisophic answer.
anothr one people just hate don't weanna beilive or are in denial but the meaninig of life in scope the asnwer is a simple and very unpopular " your dying the moment your born" sorry off topic.

A>......T.F make money D>E>A get a job. public happy when thay ssee a bust thay don;t care about specifics. just another headline

I know god is above sex but =Phlogisten Verdigris said" if god were suddenly forced to live the life he himself has inflicted on man he would surely kill himself". (off a typ o n leaf)

Sg33 with much respect your threads/posts are very sound and clinically informative.to me anyway
"Word my Man, you got it down bro"

[Opiyum]

Hey guys,

I've heard 2nd-hand of some DEA agents leaving the dept. because they know who the big dealers/importers are, but never go after them.

Instead, they knock-off some of the smaller dealers at the bottom of the pyramid. Of course, with these "great drug busts" there are over-hyped headlines in the papers--Safer Streets for All, and the like. All promoting the great job being done by the DEA.

I pose this question for this forum: What if the DEA did an incredible job and rid the streets of most of the drugs? Would this not eventually lead to their department getting less money, since drugs are no-longer the problem they once were?

Would it not be in their best interest to keep the "Mr. Bigs" around to ensure they have continuous funding and business (and jobs) for the future. They could even be working with "Mr. Big" to take out known sub-dealers that aren't liked by him.

Great for headlines, great for business, great for just about everyone. I mean, does any really have a tough time finding their DOC? Maybe its not always 100% available, but it certainly isn't very hard to get.


Yeah this is over blown stoner conspiracy bullshit. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
They don't have to worry about their best interests. No matter how many "Mr. Big's" they take down more will always pop in their absence and they know this better than any of us. I'm sure they cooperate with some upper eschalon supplies but not to this extent. It just wouldn't be neccessary. These guys wouldn't need the DEA to take out lower level dealers that are causing problems. They have plenty of employees.

What if the DEA did an incredible job and rid the streets of most of the drugs? Would this not eventually lead to their department getting less money, since drugs are no-longer the problem they once were?
That's a HUGE what if my friend. It's an impossibility. Drugs no-longer being a problem will only come with legalization. Even then there will be problems but in my mind it's resembles the lesser of two evils.

[aj11]

"Instead of a war on poverty
they got a war on drugs,
so the police can bother me"

[More Feen]

Wow. That was the first thread I've ever started here @ Opiofile--got some great responses and lots to think about.

Think of the original questions I posted more as hyptheses: shyte to contemplate, consider, reject.

Of course there's nothing any government agency could do to solve the "drug problem." And even if every bloody psychoactive chemical were made perfectly legal, there'd still be marauding gangs of teenage "spinners."

Oh yeah, you'd be reading about their criminal mischief; lurking in alleyways, spinning themselves senseless, then crashing into unsuspecting, law-abiding citizens.

Then people would realize that: "Hey, that could happen to me!" Somethings gotta be done, and NOW!

Then every state in the union would claim that it had the biggest spinning problem in the nation. And the politicians would enact the ASEA (anti-spinning-enforcement-agency), etc....

If it was not spinning, then it'd be some-other type of mind-altering behaviour--like auto-asphyxiation, etc....

More Feen

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"A strong smell of turpentine prevails throughout."
--Oliver Wendell Holmes, 1871
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[OPticrazi]

Like they say, "you gotta know when to hold 'em and when to fold'em. Simple as that!
DON"T GET CAUGHT HOLDING THE BAG" so to speak!

[Papa Verine]

The situation in Afghanistan is a complicated one. If we eradicated every single poppy farm in the country, it's the common people who would suffer most. The "people" who would become impoverished and starve to death because their farms were destroyed.

The U.S. military is trying to convince the people we are there to help them. Systematically destroying the family farms will not support their cause. I know there are efforts underway to get people to grow other things suitible to the climate there so people can continue to earn a living without supporting the worldwide flow of drugs but these efforts will take time. A long time and a great number of resources.