Fat People Getting High

[Levity]

Okay, I'm really fat and I have what is essentially a stupid question I could just go look up, but I wanted to start a conversation about it.

I know when it comes to alcohol, compared to thin people, I have different drinking protocals. That, one, it takes me more to get drunk, two, the periods between "sober," "tipsy," "drunk," and, respectively, "fucking crucified," are shorter, and three, it takes me longer to sober back up.

Now, do similar principles apply to other drugs, taken orally (or hell, IVed, snorted, or shoved up your ass while we're at it)? For example, if we cloned me and made him skinny (Levity Lite, if you will), would it take just as much whatever to get him high, or could Levity Lite get buzzed off a small dose, like he'd get drunker off less drinks?

Just thinking I may have found a reason to work out is all.

[resorcinol]

Weight almost definitely factors in to some degree, because heavier people have a higher total volume of blood (I believe, somebody correct me if I'm wrong).... which would render blood concentration of said drug lower than in a skinny version of same person.

[robojunkie]

I imagine you have already answered your own question. Naturally the less one weighs, the less they will need. However I also imagine, if you take two people, both that weigh 300 lbs, but one is 6' 10" and stacked and the other is 5'6" with little muscle, the doses are going to vary significantly, quite likely with some drugs being effective in a lower dose for one and some others for the other.

[Levity]

I imagine you have already answered your own question. Naturally the less one weighs, the less they will need. However I also imagine, if you take two people, both that weigh 300 lbs, but one is 6' 10" and stacked and the other is 5'6" with little muscle, the doses are going to vary significantly, quite likely with some drugs being effective in a lower dose for one and some others for the other.

See that further begs the question...
I know alcohol "resides" (for lack of a better word) in fatty tissues longer than in leaner muscle, hence why it takes me ten hours to sober up off a bender while it takes my body builder friend only five (hypothetically... I don't know any body builders... I don't even know where the nearest gym is).

So then do certain opiods do the same thing? Thus would I stay be higher or stay higher from opiod X versus opiod Y because it metabolizes/digests/renally/hepaticly filters slower in my fatter system?
Further, how much affect do you think ROA would have?

This is really just a thought exercise, but maybe we amateur pharmacists can have some fun with it.

[EleusisII]

Yup... An, ehm fattie will need more drugs to get painrelief/high than a skinny person. I'm not sure if it's the fat per se, or the bodyweight that does it. In the hospital, the dosage of most drugs depends on the weight of the person. (1mg pr 10 kg for example)

As for detection time, that depends on if it's fat solluble or not, and the way your body metabolizes it, I believe. Weed for example is fat-solluble, so it'll show up on a drugtest for a longer time, if you have a lot of bodyfat (and have been smoking a lot).

I could be wrong though, does anybody know for sure?

[zenpunk]

it all goes to hell anyway when tolerance comes into play anyhow...

[tptptp]

Cheers to being lanky!

[limitless_euphoria]

Okay, I'm really fat and I have what is essentially a stupid question I could just go look up, but I wanted to start a conversation about it.

I know when it comes to alcohol, compared to thin people, I have different drinking protocals. That, one, it takes me more to get drunk, two, the periods between "sober," "tipsy," "drunk," and, respectively, "fucking crucified," are shorter, and three, it takes me longer to sober back up.

Now, do similar principles apply to other drugs, taken orally (or hell, IVed, snorted, or shoved up your ass while we're at it)? For example, if we cloned me and made him skinny (Levity Lite, if you will), would it take just as much whatever to get him high, or could Levity Lite get buzzed off a small dose, like he'd get drunker off less drinks?

Just thinking I may have found a reason to work out is all.

Oh yeah, I'd say you're on to something. Back in my coke days, when I was down to like 184... versus the 260 I'm quite close to pushin' nowadays... I used to be able to take a couple of percs and get mangled. Today, I'd have to take three or four at least and that's assuming I'm not even taking pills every day. I'd say here's what comes into play, in no specific order:

Weight: My buddy's ex gf weighed like 110 lbs. wet and they gave her percs at the hospital; she'd take ONE and it was like she just mainlined half a bundle of fire.

Tolerance: Obviously the more opiate naive you are the more likely you are to get wrecked!

Diet: I have noticed depending on certain foods you eat or if you waaaay undereat while on opiates (like when I first started using them and was hardly hungry) the high can be affected.

Metabolism and liver function: Some people can take a a vicodin or percocet and it will last them like 6-8 hours (regardless of tolerance, just up the dosage); other people can take a pill like that and they're lucky if it even lasts 4 hours (kind of like me). I wonder if that has something to do with that cytochrome p450 enzyme they were talking about in the bupe forum. My father-in-law has impaired liver function and he used to be able to take one percocet 5/325 in the morning and one at night and he'd be pain free 24/7. Considering they Rx them no longer than 6 hours apart his liver must have been what kept him opiated all day and all night on just two pills every 24 hours.

I'm not scientist or anything, but those are the major 4 factors at play so far as I can see. If anyone thinks I omitted anything, feel free to add.

[Levity]

Let's just pretend tolerance isn't a factor...

Diet - It's best to take orally dose on an empty stomach for mass absorbtion. However, fatty foods can result in higher peak blood plasma levels (at least in oxycodone, or so I remember from the literature).

Liver/Kidney Function - The cytochromes responsible for the renal and hepatic metabolization of opiates are affected by a handful of things - tagamet and white grapefruit juice being our favorites here. But even though I'm fat, both my kidneys and liver are functioning normally.

So, getting back to being fat, we've established that I'd need a higher dose than a skinner person. We also know that fat-soluable drugs (like weed and alcohol) will stay in my system (at least as non-active metabolites, if nothing else), longer than TP's lanky ass.

Do we know if opiods are fat-soluable? If so, I could expect I'd have higher blood plasma/urine/ concentrations than Levity Lite, if we are given the same dosages. Furthermore, even if given doses adjusted for the weight difference, if the opiod is fat-soluable, I should we higher, longer - right?

(Can you tell how bored I seriously am?)

[pizzaboy]

Oh yeah, I'd say you're on to something. Back in my coke days, when I was down to like 184... versus the 260 I'm quite close to pushin' nowadays... I used to be able to take a couple of percs and get mangled. Today, I'd have to take three or four at least and that's assuming I'm not even taking pills every day. I'd say here's what comes into play, in no specific order:

Weight: My buddy's ex gf weighed like 110 lbs. wet and they gave her percs at the hospital; she'd take ONE and it was like she just mainlined half a bundle of fire.

Tolerance: Obviously the more opiate naive you are the more likely you are to get wrecked!

Diet: I have noticed depending on certain foods you eat or if you waaaay undereat while on opiates (like when I first started using them and was hardly hungry) the high can be affected.

Metabolism and liver function: Some people can take a a vicodin or percocet and it will last them like 6-8 hours (regardless of tolerance, just up the dosage); other people can take a pill like that and they're lucky if it even lasts 4 hours (kind of like me). I wonder if that has something to do with that cytochrome p450 enzyme they were talking about in the bupe forum. My father-in-law has impaired liver function and he used to be able to take one percocet 5/325 in the morning and one at night and he'd be pain free 24/7. Considering they Rx them no longer than 6 hours apart his liver must have been what kept him opiated all day and all night on just two pills every 24 hours.

I'm not scientist or anything, but those are the major 4 factors at play so far as I can see. If anyone thinks I omitted anything, feel free to add.

I think you hit on some great points here. From experience, I'd say weight is a factor, but certainly not the only factor. Tolerance, diet, metabolism and sometimes even the time of day play major roles on how opiates/alcohol affect me.

I'll never forget the first opiate I ever ingested, a 5mg endocet my brother-in-law handed me at a family bbq. I was 6' 3" and pushing 260, was drinking...and it sent me into la la land. It would take a handful of those to even change my attitude today, and I'm roughly 30 pounds lighter.

I can't handle booze anymore. I rarely drink these days, despite a long love affair with the stuff...a couple of margaritas knock me on my ass. I was never an every-day falling down booze-hound, but it wasn't unusual to enjoy 3-5 beers every night after work and a 12-pack on the weekend...without feeling any major effects. Again, I was much bigger when I drank in those quantites.

I'm curious about liver function, and admit I don't have a clue about how it works.

This is an interesting topic, Levity, you always manage to come up with something cool. How ya feeling, btw?

[Levity]

This is an interesting topic, Levity, you always manage to come up with something cool. How ya feeling, btw?

Thank for the compliment. I try to keep things interesting around these parts...

How am I feeling? Now there's a loaded question. I'm not depressed anymore, but I also gave up my illusions of totally kicking opiates. I tried out heroin and almost (read: did) overdosed, so I swore that plus IVing off, except for when I'm with my boy... Who is on his way over to do these last six bags of the shit that almost killed me...

So, I'm happier than most, sadder than some, sober around half the time, and cold in Chicago.

How you doin'?

[SpecialGuy69]

Fat People Getting High: Funniest thread title ever! The imagery...

[Levity]

Fat People Getting High: Funniest thread title ever! The imagery...

"I can't find a fucking vein."
"Well, if we didn't need these eight inch needles to get through your arm."

OR

"What are you shooting?"
"Cookie-dough. Want me to cook you up a shot?"

... I could go on.
Sadly.

[SpecialGuy69]

"I can't find a fucking vein."
"Well, if we didn't need these eight inch needles to get through your arm."

OR

"What are you shooting?"
"Cookie-dough. Want me to cook you up a shot?"

... I could go on.
Sadly.cookin shots with butter instead of water...

CWE on lucky charms to separate the marshmellows out

[LayinLow]

cookin shots with butter instead of water...

CWE on lucky charms to separate the marshmellows out


lmfao
Putting mayo on pills to make them go down easier

[Uncle Wiggly]

Hey Levity, Body weight is very often, but not always, a factor when calculating drug dosage. This is especially true for anesthesia. When you go in for surgery they ask your weight or weigh you before-hand because a lot of meds are on a MG per KG dosage ratio.

I take it you're feeling more like your old-self these days after your long-sleep?
I know THC collects in fat tissue but I'm not sure if weight plays a part in how long it stays there.

PAX

[Levity]

Hey Levity, Body weight is very often, but not always, a factor when calculating drug dosage. This is especially true for anesthesia. When you go in for surgery they ask your weight or weigh you before-hand because a lot of meds are on a MG per KG dosage ratio.

I take it you're feeling more like your old-self these days after your long-sleep?
I know THC collects in fat tissue but I'm not sure if weight plays a part in how long it stays there.

PAX


I'm just wondering about the effects fat issue and weight have on opioids. There's not much literature like there is for anesthetics and THC-compounds, oddly enough.

And yes, and my “long sleep,” I’m feeling much better… More informed and better prepared in the ways of the world too, I think.

[pizzaboy]

How you doin'?

A little depressed, but I'll live. Thanks for asking.

[Uncle Wiggly]

I'm just wondering about the effects fat issue and weight have on opioids. There's not much literature like there is for anesthetics and THC-compounds, oddly enough.

And yes, and my “long sleep,” I’m feeling much better… More informed and better prepared in the ways of the world too, I think.

This is just my best guess but I would think ROA might play a part in it. IV probably not a lot. But on the other hand practically all anesthetics are administered IV They are, however, being administered for exacting purposes. Rectally I'm thinking not because it's getting carried straight into your bloodstream by the capillaries/veins in your rectum. Snorting Same as rectally only up the nose as opposed to to the butt. Orally That's the only ROA, to my thinking, where body weight may be a significant factor. Many meds say to take on empty or full stomach etc...

This is a very good question and bears further research. I have an appointment with my PM doc at the end of the week and I'm going to ask what he/she thinks. Sometimes I see the doc/he or his Nurse Practitioner/she. I know both of them well and we often talk shop, so to speak. I'll let you know if I get any usable information.

PAX

[HandMeSomeOpiates]

it all goes to hell anyway when tolerance comes into play anyhow...

Amen to that, I'm 157lb and takes 80mg OC(at 1 time) insuffated to even get me feeling good these days.

[Pandora]

I don't know the science of ANY of this, this is just my personal experience.

My boyfriend and I have been using together for about 2 years now. We both use oxycodone regularly, always insufflated. I'm much smaller than him, roughly 135-140 pounds but I don't look it, as I am about a size 2 - I think most of the weight's in my bra to be honest, I'm cursed with abnormally large breasts that drive me nuts. ANYWAY that's besides the point haha.

My boyfriend, on the other hand, weights probably about 100 pounds more than me and is only about 5-6 inches taller than me, so he's considerably bigger than I am. Our tolerance is about the same and has increased at about the same rate.

So this would lead me to believe weight doesn't have a HUGE effect. We use the same amount for about the same effect, and our dosage needs have increased about the same.

Common sense, however, would lead me to believe weight does play a role.

Who knows. Someone much smarter than me, most likely.

[xxkmanxx]

id say the fatter you are the more you prob need. and also when dealing with IVing its def harder to find veins and shit, i hate that.

[youwonhundred]

Damn right, us hat bastards need a buzz too!

It would make sense, though, that it would have some effect... How much? Who the fuck knows. It sucks, but you deal with it, I guess.

Damn, I had a whole post halfway composed in my head, and as soon as I started typing, it vanished. The only thing I remember is the word bears, jumping out at me from Unc's post.

I think I'm getting Alzheimers or something. Maybe brain damage? No, seriously, I think it would be hard to avoid after a point. I've treated my body like a rental for as long as I can remember. Fuck, this is depressing.

[Levity]

I don't know the science of ANY of this, this is just my personal experience.


My boyfriend and I have been using together for about 2 years now. We both use oxycodone regularly, always insufflated. I'm much smaller than him, roughly 135-140 pounds but I don't look it, as I am about a size 2 - I think most of the weight's in my bra to be honest, I'm cursed with abnormally large breasts that drive me nuts. ANYWAY that's besides the point haha.


My boyfriend, on the other hand, weights probably about 100 pounds more than me and is only about 5-6 inches taller than me, so he's considerably bigger than I am. Our tolerance is about the same and has increased at about the same rate.


So this would lead me to believe weight doesn't have a HUGE effect. We use the same amount for about the same effect, and our dosage needs have increased about the same.


Common sense, however, would lead me to believe weight does play a role.


Who knows. Someone much smarter than me, most likely.


Boobs... Must focus on something else.... Booobsss

...
...
Boobs.

[EleusisII]

Wait a second, so Pandora is one of the rare girls who like opies, she doesn't mind chubby guys, she's cute and funny, and now this shit?

I'm cursed with abnormally large breasts that drive me nuts.

GOD?!? THIS IS ME, ELEUSIS... WHY ARE YOU MOCKING ME LORD?!? WHAT HAVE I DONE TO INCUR YOUR DIVINE WRATH?!? WHY?!? WHY MUST YOU MOCK ME LIKE THIS?!?

[bored in sofl]

I have tackin some classes for a degree in exercise science and from what I understand fat will have absolutly nothing to do with metabilizing meds. Fat is nothing but excees energy stored in your body but on the other hand the more muscle mass you have the more meds you would beable to metabalize quicker. Soit's not a question of weight but how much muscle. For instance if ou had some one at 5'6" at 5% bodyfat weighing 160 and the other person is 5'6" at 27% bodyfat weighing 160 the person with 5% bodyfat would need a larger dose. Thats just my junky thinking

[Levity]

I have tackin some classes for a degree in exercise science and from what I understand fat will have absolutly nothing to do with metabilizing meds. Fat is nothing but excees energy stored in your body but on the other hand the more muscle mass you have the more meds you would beable to metabalize quicker. Soit's not a question of weight but how much muscle. For instance if ou had some one at 5'6" at 5% bodyfat weighing 160 and the other person is 5'6" at 27% bodyfat weighing 160 the person with 5% bodyfat would need a larger dose. Thats just my junky thinking

Doesn't work that way with alcohol or barbs though.
Or benzos.


Or bacon.

[Thebane]

Doesn't work that way with alcohol or barbs though.
Or benzos.


Are you sure it doesn't work that way for them? I don't really know either way. But fat people usually also have a lot more muscle than skinny people, so even if fat didn't matter they would still have to drink a lot more. But I don't know, it seems like total blood volume would matter, and I imagine fat people have more. Although I'm no doctor, I did barely pass high school chem though.

[Ludakris]

Boobs... Must focus on something else.... Booobsss

...
...
Boobs.


HAHAHAHAHA! and to think I almost forgot about your boob fascination (well, really, we all do). Ah Levity, you make me laugh long time, you must be in better spirits these days.

As for the topic...IME with all this, I have found that body weight seems to play a very small role in opies. All the people I've every done drugs with, it seems like alcohol was the only "drug" that every differed based solely on size. And myself, I've gained over 60lbs (was on meth, weighed 135, then car accident, then opiates, quit meth, now I'm 195)since I first started really using, and if you put tolerance to the side, I haven't noticed any effect or difference in the highs I get just cause I've put on weight.