An open letter from an ER doc to drug seekers-

[SpecialGuy69]

Found on CraigsList: Read:

Date: 2007-03-27, 9:56AM PDT


OK, I am not going to lecture you about the dangers of narcotic pain medicines. We both know how addictive they are: you because you know how it feels when you don't have your vicodin, me because I've seen many many many people just like you. However, there are a few things I can tell you that would make us both much happier. By following a few simple rules our little clinical transaction can go more smoothly and we'll both be happier because you get out of the ER quicker.

The first rule is be nice to the nurses. They are underpaid, overworked, and have a lot more influence over your stay in the ER than you think. When you are tempted to treat them like shit because they are not the ones who write the rx, remember: I might write for you to get a shot of 2mg of dilaudid, but your behavior toward the nurses determines what percent of that dilaudid is squirted onto the floor before you get your shot.

The second rule is pick a simple, non-dangerous, (non-verifiable) painful condition which doesn't require me to do a four thousand dollar work-up in order to get you out of the ER. If you tell me that you headache started suddenly and is the 'worst headache of your life' you will either end up with a spinal tap or signing out against medical advice without an rx for pain medicine. The parts of the story that you think make you sound pitiful and worthy of extra narcotics make me worry that you have a bleeding aneurysm. And while I am 99% sure its not, I'm not willing to lay my license and my families future on the line for your ass. I also don't want to miss the poor bastard who really has a bleed, so everyone with that history gets a needle in the back. Just stick to a history of your 'typical pain that is totally the same as I usually get' and we will both be much happier.

The third rule (related to #2) is never rate your pain a 10/10. 10/10 means the worst pain you could possibly imagine. I've seen people in a 10/10 pain and you sitting there playing tetris on your cell phone are not in 10/10 pain. 10/10 pain is an open fracture dangling in the wind, a 50% body surface deep partial thickness burn, or the pain of a real cerebral aneurysm. Even when I passed a kidney stone, the worst pain I had was probably a 7. And that was when I was projectile vomiting and crying for my mother. So stick with a nice 7 or even an 8. That means to me you are hurting by you might not be lying. (See below.)

The fourth rule is never ever ever lie to me about who you are or your history. If you come to the ER and give us a fake name so we can't get your old records I will assume you are a worse douchetard than you really are. More importantly though it will really really piss me the fuck off. Pissing off the guy who writes the rx you want does not work to your advantage.

The fifth rule is don't assume I am an idiot. I went to medical school. That is certainly no guarantee that I am a rocket scientist I know (hell, I went to school with a few people who were a couple of french fries short of a happy meal.) However, I also got an ER residency spot which means I was in the top quarter or so of my class. This means it is a fair guess I am a reasonably smart guy. So if I read your triage note and 1) you list allergies to every non-narcotic pain medicine ever made, 2) you have a history of migraines, fibromyalgia, and lumbar disk disease, and 3) your doctor is on vacation, only has clinic on alternate Tuesdays, or is dead, I am smart enough to read that as: you are scamming for some vicodin. That in and of itself won't necessarily mean you don't get any pain medicine. Hell, the fucktards who list and allergy to tylenol but who can take vicodin (which contains tylenol) are at least good for a few laughs at the nurses station. However, if you give that history everyone in the ER from me to the guy who mops the floor will know you are a lying douchetard who is scamming for vicodin. (See rule # 4 about lying.)

The sixth and final rule is wait your fucking turn. If the nurse triages you to the waiting room but brings patients who arrived after you back to be treated first, that is because this is an EMERGENCY room and they are sicker than you are. You getting a fix of vicodin is not more important than the 6 year old with a severe asthma attack. Telling the nurse at triage that now your migraine is giving you chest pain since you have been sitting a half hour in the waiting area to try to force her into taking you back sooner is a recipe for making all of us hate you. Even if you end up coming back immediately, I will make it my mission that night to torment you. You will not get the pain medicine you want under any circumstances. And I firmly believe that if you manipulate your way to the back and make a 19 year old young woman with an ectopic pregnancy that might kill her in a few hours wait even a moment longer to be seen, I should be able to piss in a glass and make you drink it before you leave the ER.

So if you keep these few simple rules in mind, our interaction will go much more smoothly. I don't really give a shit if I give 20 vicodins to a drug-seeker. Before I was burnt out in the ER I was a hippy and I would honestly rather give that to ten of you guys than make one person in real pain (unrelated to withdrawal) suffer. However, if you insist on waving a flourescent orange flag that says 'I am a drug seeker' and pissing me and the nurses off with your behavior, I am less likely to give you that rx. You don't want that. I don't want that. So lets keep this simple, easy, and we'll all be much happier.

Sincerely,
Your friendly neighborhood ER doctor

[GoddessofRATs]

I think someone posted this before. But thanks, it's an interesting read.

GOR

[SpecialGuy69]

Tonight I experienced a patient who reminded me there are limits to drug seeking behavior in the Emergency Department. Having been on the receiving end of this, I’d like to pass on some words of wisdom.

Basic rules: don’t put
“allergic to hydrocodone 5’s, but not the 7.5’s”
I’m just here for a pain shot
and I need “Demerol”
“yes, I have some hydrocodone, but need more”on your triage list.

Advanced rules: don’t
start screaming for another doctor 30 seconds after being told ‘no pain shot’
ask the nurse “is taking 7 darvocet like one hydrocodone 7.5?”
ask for refills of Soma, Duragesic and Oxycodone at 2 AM, on a weekend, without being able to supply name doctors at hospitals that have previously treated you.
think “the only drug that works for me starts with a D…” isn’t going to make us less wary…
ask “is doctor ‘X’ on duty?” (knowing the names of the EM docs is never a good sign)
And, True, the clothes make the man, but they often give away the drug seekerAnd the most basic rule: and ED nurse can smell BS at 20 paces, and can point out ‘not right’ in about 3 seconds. Never, ever, screw with an ED nurse.
Oh, and ticking off the ED doc isn’t good, either.

another one

[CIIORNOTHING]

Wow, that advice pretty much follows exactly what myself and a few others recommended on a thread here last week. Its good advice.....though I have my doubts that was written by an ER doc.

[Nate]

I would honestly rather give that to ten of you guys than make one person in real pain (unrelated to withdrawal) suffer

Wish all I doc were like this.

[GoddessofRATs]

Oops, I've done the "hmm, i think it starts with a 'D'" ROTFL. Oh well it worked for me but it probable sent a red flag up. I think i only used that method 2 or 3 times and after that i just flat out told them what works when they asked me, I'd just say "Huh, yea, Dilaudid seems to work the best"

GOR

[OCfenatiq]

I know plenty of people who I can imagine would probably act like this in the ER (meaning like the jurk 'ol doc was saying not to be), but in all honesty I pretty much already follow al his rules. I try to be nice to them all on any visit to the doc or ER because at my old doctor's office in Fla the nurse had a lot of pull and I think she knew what I wanted. Most of the time she wrote out the scripts and the doc just signed 'em. Either way, she was cool b/c I called a few times for refills on perc 10/325 and the nurse would sometimes up the sript from 60 pills to 90 pills for me...

I think it does work in most cases just to be nice to everyone and have a decent story...

Also does a lot of people use stories about headaches b/c it seems to work better if you got a bad back or something. I mean think about it, you can have hurniated disks in your back and the ER is just going to give you a script but in a headache situation they might think you have a tumor in your head or something... I don't know, just seems easier to me...

[Uncle Wiggly]

My wife is a nurse and I used to be an X-Ray tech. She has worked in EC(ER) and I did portables in the EC - many of them in the green room(worst-most emergent patients) I've also had the displeasure of being an EC patient. The letter from the 'ER doc' is a good common sense letter but there are a few things that don't quite add up. I have my doubts it came from a real MD.

Any nurse that gets caught wasting any bit of medication that should go to a patient would be written-up in a heartbeat. Maybe not fired but certainly given a few unpaid days off. Then there would be an incident report and all kinds of other stuff those outside of the medical community have no clue about. Now the rn may discuss with the doc how they feel about a particular patient and they may walk very slowly to get a patients meds, fill the order and bring it back. Want your catheter to be tugged hard a few times by accident - call your nurse a bitch or dick. But when a doc gives a written or verbal order, no rn in their right mind is going to waste part of a patients meds. I asked my wife about this and she laughed and said she's never heard of such a thing. She said if something went wrong and the patient had some sort of problem from being under-medicated via GROSS NEGLIGENCE (at the least) it's lawsuit time and time to look for a new job.

Let's talk about how you're dressed when you come to the EC. Most real emergencies really don't have the time to put on their Sunday-go-to-meeting clothes before entering the EC. They are dressed in everything from bathing suits to tuxedos. The triage nurse will see how your dressed but the experienced ones know Shit from Shinola. Oh yes and lets not forget that by the time you get back to your little exam room you've been asked to take off everything but the socks and put on the open-backed robe. Kind of a great equalizer.

How you act. Pain is a subjective thing. That's why the docs and nurses will ask you to rate your pain. Then they will use a method called SOAP. (Subjective Objective Assessment Plan) to further assess your pain and treatment. There are actually some physiological signs of pain. But they aren't written in stone. Elevated blood pressure is one sign of excruciating pain. But - not always. Go figure.

My wife and I have both seen people come in complaining of migraines who get medicated with CII narcotics without having a CT. You see it's not so often what they give you while you're there - it's what they give or don't give you to walk out with. When people come to the EC with REAL pain the objectives are to find out the etiology of the pain and then to manage the pain. BTW - If an EC doc ordered a CT for every patient he/she examined who complained of a headache the chief resident would be breathing fire down their necks about keeping costs to a minimum - needless tests and, 'Where in the hell did you learn your evaluation skills from - the funny papers' I actually heard a resident getting reamed with that particular statement one night.

There are some very good common sense tips in the letter. Don't be rude to the people taking care of you. Don't exaggerate, but if you're really in pain and you feel it's a 8 or 9 you'd better say so because it could make a huge difference in how you are treated. Oh - if you think you're having a heart attack PLEASE don't take the time to put on nice clothes before going to the EC(ER).

Now if you're walking into the EC to scam them try to keep this in mind - They've seen it all before. There is nothing new under the sun. They do keep files on 'frequent fliers' - so if you've been there to restock your stash chances are it's not going to happen. This is not to say that people don't get lucky now and then. But, the odds are stacked way against you if you're trying to scam the EC. But - most of us already knew that.

Honestly some of that stuff is poppy-cock and some of it's just good common sense. And some of the examples of what not to do would only be done by an extreme idiot. But - I've seen that as well.

PAX

[Indy]

Wiggly the only thing i disagree with is the frequency of nurses diverting medicine. IMO a lot of that goes on. A lot of nurses are drug seekers themselves, and if they see someone who "won't really even notice", they'll have a bottle on them and either just take some of the morphine right away, or save it for later and only give you half of the bottle it comes in. Sure they SHOULD be written up (I wouldn't say fired, i mean losing your livelihood over a mistake is a bit harsh), but they probably don't most of the time. I mean they could do it when they're alone with a patient and the patient usually wouldn't even know what's going on.

I STRONGLY believe this happened to me one time. I was in withdrawal and went to the ER for a headache (which was real, but not that bad, mostly just w/d's), and after the toradol and everything else they FINALLY decided to try morphine, but i didn't really feel ANY better. And i didn't really have much tolerance back then so that doesn't explain it, and it was IV morphine so i should have felt something. She said "i'm just gonna give you half to start and see if you throw up". So she gave me half and then PULLED THE NEEDLE OUT. Then she just left and i never saw her again. The doctor was next to see me.

[PathétiquePathos]

I think you're just being shorted from the start. You should've been able to feel half a shot to some degree or else the second half probably wouldn't do much either. And if it didn't help you I doubt it'd help the thief/nurse much unless she saves several half-full hypos from all her patients.

You were probably just under-medicated and you know how busy those nurses can be she probably just got sidetracked. You could be right but I think most nurses I've met are compassionate enough not to steal half shots from people in pain.

[limitless_euphoria]

I think someone posted this before. But thanks, it's an interesting read.

GOR

Yeah, wasn't there a video on CraigsList too? Remember the guy who said to pretend like you were lifting a piano and something slipped and now your back is out of whack! Don't say your chest hurts or it will get you no painkillers and they'll just do a couple hours of wasted tests on you just to discharge you with nada. That video was pretty good.

I know I've bitched about my failed attempts at ERs and what I've FINALLY, finally figured out... after talking to you guys and friends... it seems ONCE you KNOW what's wrong with your back they treat you a lot differently.

Scenario I:

LE goes to the local ER in pain. They do all the usual stuff but I've been there a few times. I tell them how I have CP but how it fluctuates between levels I can deal with and levels I can't. Have I had an MRI, yes? Have I been to a specialist, yes? My doctor isn't available for a few days (although it's true it sounds shitty).

NO PILLS OR THE SHITTIEST ONES THEY CAN GET ME OUT THE DOOR WITH.

Scenario II:

LE goes to an ER he's only been to once or twice (there are some I've been saving up that I've hardly ever been to but only a couple that are close enough not to be questioned why I'm going "so far" out of my way).

LE goes in and complains of back pain; let's only assume I'm going to bother going because it's real. If I want to get high I'll just find another way; believe you me, it's NOT worth putting on an X hour song and dance for 10 vicodin or some crappy Ty-3's.

Instead of saying that it's chronic or that I have a specialist—say just what really happened but if it's not plausable (cause believe it or not some of the things that render me in pain don't sound like they would). By just doing that—playing naive to medications—not using any fancy medical terms—in the past I used to score 12-15 percs no problem. I think it's ONLY when I started making it known that I've had a whole history of problems for a while and this and that—right there I'm setting off the "drug seeker" alarm. If I play like I'm just a first timer dumb-dumb (which is easy to do at a location I haven't burned) perhaps I'll fair better.

LE should at least walk away with 10-15 percs or maybe 10-20 vics. If God is really smiling down upon me maybe even a morphine or a dilly shot (doubtful nowadays: the only thing they gave me dilly for was the appendix—and I still can't get that shit out of my mind).

So does Scenario II sound like an improvement and more likely to work? As I've said, I'm going to try this PM thing out and see what the deal is. I'll try all their magic tricks and this and that. But, let's say when all else fails, hypothetically what do you guys think? Have I finally found the qualities that are "red flagging" my ass? Agent Orange? GoR? Anyone care to comment?

[Raz]

Any junkie thats needs a hospital to score, my advice is "give it up man"..Nurses work for shit wages, more of a vocation than occupation and why bother them when gear is only a phonecall away?
Nurses saved my life, have a lot of respect for them.If ya need the ER to score,the games over.Go back to college and normal life, they are to busy savin lives to be some college/high school kids dope dealer......

[Uncle Wiggly]

Wiggly the only thing i disagree with is the frequency of nurses diverting medicine. IMO a lot of that goes on. A lot of nurses are drug seekers themselves, and if they see someone who "won't really even notice", they'll have a bottle on them and either just take some of the morphine right away, or save it for later and only give you half of the bottle it comes in. Sure they SHOULD be written up (I wouldn't say fired, i mean losing your livelihood over a mistake is a bit harsh), but they probably don't most of the time. I mean they could do it when they're alone with a patient and the patient usually wouldn't even know what's going on.

I STRONGLY believe this happened to me one time. I was in withdrawal and went to the ER for a headache (which was real, but not that bad, mostly just w/d's), and after the toradol and everything else they FINALLY decided to try morphine, but i didn't really feel ANY better. And i didn't really have much tolerance back then so that doesn't explain it, and it was IV morphine so i should have felt something. She said "i'm just gonna give you half to start and see if you throw up". So she gave me half and then PULLED THE NEEDLE OUT. Then she just left and i never saw her again. The doctor was next to see me.

Yes you're right about the DIVERSION of drugs. I was talking about an RN deliberately wasting a patients meds because she/he didn't like them. (no other reason than spite) Now we all know when some one has a jones - all bets are off. The medical field is the top of the pile when it comes to drug addiction amongst professionals. But it's getting a lot tougher for meds to be diverted in the EC and other high-volume areas. Even in the hospital - period. That's why a lot of diversion is being done in the private sector of medicine now.

There was a nurse who was giving Toradol to the patients she was supposed to be giving CIIs to. That was because Toradol wasn't locked up at this particular hospital. Well it seemed that too many of her patients were complaining of 'not feeling' their pain shots. So they started following her around. It wasn't long until they caught her in a bathroom-stall banging what should have gone to a person in pain. Now many hospitals are locking up their injectable NSAIDs along with the CIIs. There was a big to-do last year when one of the top surgeons was found passed out in the bathroom with a half-full shot of Numorphan still in his arm.

They don't usually fire people the first time they get popped. They don't even call the cops. They do give them the choice of going to rehab and keeping their jobs when they get out or getting let go and 'black-listed'. There's a lot of understanding toward a person with an addiction but there wouldn't be much slack given to some one who was just wasting meds to cause misery in a patient. It's very different.

A lot of hospitals are now requiring all personnel to take random drug tests. Believe it or not that wasn't the case in most hospitals only 20 years ago. There are also cameras everywhere now. It's very difficult for medical people to divert drugs these days. I'm not saying it doesn't happen. There's always somebody who figures out a way to beat the system. The thing is the drugs that docs and nurses get a hold of are very powerful so it isn't long until their tolerance is going through the roof and they're taking bigger chances to score. Then their co-workers start getting suspicious...

The thing is - hospitals weren't always tight when it came to security involving meds. For example it used to be if a nurse on one a unit forgot to give the drug keys to the next shift before going home, they'd just call and ask them to bring them back. Not any more. If the drug keys leave the hospital the first thing that happens is security changes the lock. There's a full count done on all the controlled substances on the unit (even if one had just been dome a few minutes before). If it comes up short the shit hits the fan and they launch an internal investigation. Those used to be kind of a joke in years past but not any more.

So anyway, yeah you're right about that part. I was just saying an RN isn't going to waste meds because a patient rubs them the wrong way. Especially after a doc has ordered those meds to go to that patient. That letter reads to me like it was written by somebody who has watched too many episodes of ER - not an MD. Plus there are things you're used to hearing from EC docs that this person never mentions in the letter. The person keeps using the term, 'douchetards'. It makes me think they might still be in high school. Now if they would have used GOMER it would have sounded a little more authentic. :D

Raz - I couldn't have said it better.

PAX

[limitless_euphoria]

Any junkie thats needs a hospital to score, my advice is "give it up man"..Nurses work for shit wages, more of a vocation than occupation and why bother them when gear is only a phonecall away?
Nurses saved my life, have a lot of respect for them.If ya need the ER to score,the games over.Go back to college and normal life, they are to busy savin lives to be some college/high school kids dope dealer......

ERs serve their purpose, especially for those who w/o medical attention they could get complications and potentially die. As far as me and my pain, fuck that—they've proven they're worthless to me. I just have a thorn in my side about the whole issue because whenever I've needed the help the most they've never been there for me. The one or two times I friggin' scored good C-II meds were the times I probably could have squeaked by with C-III meds. Oh well, I'm not trying to hijack the thread—it's useful info. to have and be aware of.

My word to the wise: try to avoid going to the ER just cause you're in w/d (unless it's really, really bad) or you're just plain old jonsing. You're likely to fuck it up for when you are in a situation where you really are in acute pain and nobody cares to take you seriously. This is spoken from someone who has been there. Case closed.

[Raz]

^^^^I wasnt diggin anyone out.Just amazes me that some guys go through the hoops etc to score C11 meds when the easiest route is,"Make a call".....Mates of mine have taken flights to score rather than do that ER shit.
My own personal experience with nurses, DR's etc is they saved my life,when i got shot,and without them payin me the care they did i wouldnt typin this..Common sense kinda indicates its a million times easier to score on the street,than the ER.....Nurses work for shit, when they should be on a million quid a week....
Just my 2cents,take on things.Nothin personal bro.Be cool.....Raz

[robojunkie]

Any junkie thats needs a hospital to score, my advice is "give it up man"..Nurses work for shit wages, more of a vocation than occupation and why bother them when gear is only a phonecall away?
Nurses saved my life, have a lot of respect for them.If ya need the ER to score,the games over.Go back to college and normal life, they are to busy savin lives to be some college/high school kids dope dealer......

Truer words were never spoken! The time most will spend waiting at the ER to run the pain game (assuming its fake of course, or ridiculously exaggerated, not talking about legit pain problems) is easily enough time to for a decent junkie to pull together enough scratch to score some shit that's as good or better than their highest IV dose of dilaudid. And lets face it, it is true that one could be occupying their time while someone's kid is having some unknown meltdown with a huge fever and diarrhea and vomiting and no one knows what the hell is wrong, or someone's family member is ripped in half in a wicked bad accident...

Just remember people, time IS money, yours and theirs! This is at best a gamble with your money (time), one that is probably of similar odds as wearing a pair of dockers and an izod shirt down to "the hood" in a volvo, and asking if you could kindly be directed to the "reliable neighborhood heroin distributor". I mean I get that different people have different comfort levels and different experiences, but if you are a true junky (as in pretty high tolerance, IV, and require it to function) this is a huge waste of time compared to the 10 bucks a stamp/point bag or 40 bucks for a half gram, depending on where you are, will get you. And it won't piss off/interfere with the health care workers. Note I said "true junkie" meaning already IV'ing, goes looking for the IV morphine or dilaudid, etc, I'm not saying the person who's mildly physically addicted to vicodin and needs maybe 5 to 10 5/500's a day should start shootin' dope, but the heavy opiate user really is wasting their time.

The exception of course would be those who have a well documented CP condition, one that the docs pretty much universally accept, and its a given (from experience) that you will get what you expect/need. This is meant more for the "malingerers/drug seekers".

[pharmboy]

When I was 19-20 I worked graveyard shift in an ER. We used to put the people who came in for

painkillers all the time on the " best dressed list " I don't have any idea why they called it that.

But the thing we really hated was when these ding bat babes would come in and just want felt up.

They would come in at like 2:00 am every friday nite and say OHH I have this pain right here see,

no down a little OHHH that s GOO- OHHthat hurts! OH and I think I also have some verry little

lumps in my breast right by the nipple there. Those were the days when they use to pack your nose

FULL of pharmacutical grade coke if you broke it. ( I always took the left overs ) And quite a few

bottles of Demerol got droped and ( "BROKEN" ) back then. AHH the good old days. I missm. .:jumping-s

[reddragon3668]

LOL!!! I knew some of us had tried this, the minute I read it. I remember going to my GP who treated my pain for over six years and asking for dilaudid. I acted all stupid.. told him that my next door neighbor was a pain patient (true) and his doctor gave him something that started with a "D" for breakthrough pain. This patient recommended me trying it... umm... something like di-lau-da-phine/? does that make sense? LOL

Funny thing is, it worked. He gave me 60 2mg tablets for a couple of months. The third month, I had to see the Nurse Practitioner, because my doctor was at a conference. She said she wasn't comfortable using them outside an ER setting, because of the abuse and diversion potential. I argued with her, telling her that if they suspected me of doing either, then they shouldn't be writing me for anything. All the medicines they had scripted me over six years were all CII's with abuse and diversion potential. She ended up giving me another 2 weeks worth and wanted me to come back to see my regular doctor.

By the time I got back, I had finally figured out that Dilaudid was worthless in any ROA except IV. I could easily take the whole bottle in less than 2 days and not even be close to comfortable, pain wise. Worthless shit, orally, imo.

Great information, AO. Thanks for posting!



Oops, I've done the "hmm, i think it starts with a 'D'" ROTFL. Oh well it worked for me but it probable sent a red flag up. I think i only used that method 2 or 3 times and after that i just flat out told them what works when they asked me, I'd just say "Huh, yea, Dilaudid seems to work the best"

GOR

[Uncle Wiggly]

One more thing. Yesterday I read this letter and I thought is was bogus but I was only an X-Ray tech and my wife has been an RN - MSNfor over twenty years - 8+ years spent in the EC(ER). So I printed the letter and gave it to her to read. I did not give any indication as to where it came from or what my opinion of the letter was.

After a very short amount of time she started laughing. The laughing turned to sighing. The sighing turned to cursing. When she was finished she walked up to me and said,"Tell me this is a joke and no one is taking this seriously." Then she started tearing the letter apart and showing me where it's medical-logic fell short. She even went so far as to take a hi-liter to certain sentences/paragraphs and explaining why she thought they were written by a medical voyeur - not a REAL MD.

Then we started talking about it and I told her where my doubts entered into the picture. We both felt the same way and I only know a fraction of what she knows about emergency medicine. Raz put it very well in his post. It makes me sad to know that some one reading this 'letter' is going to use it as an EC Patient's Drug Seeking Manual.

Most of the 'letter' is just common sense stuff that most moderately intelligent people know in the first place and relatively harmless. But the scary part about this 'letter' is it may motivate some one who is experiencing a genuine medical emergency to understate their symptoms to the doctors and nurses at the EC because they took the advice of some one who shouldn't be handing out anything but hall passes.

PAX

[CIIORNOTHING]

It didnt take rocket scientist to see a real MD didnt write that. I said that in my first post. How do I know? Because that letter could in no way make a doctor any money, and thats thier number one motivating factor to do ANYTHING. :)

ANd the whole, it starts with a D shit, could land you with a bottle of useless pink Darvocets! LOL!

[syn2600]

a headache will get you a shot of fioracet, shitty butilbital. My first ever experience with oppies was 2 summers ago at 2 am, fucking blister on my ear drum, it was, and still is the worst experience i've ever had. Got me 25 percs too :) i was suprised, now here i am literally just finished shooting up OC, that damn blister delivered me into evil!

[Uncle Wiggly]

It didnt take rocket scientist to see a real MD didnt write that. I said that in my first post. How do I know? Because that letter could in no way make a doctor any money, and thats thier number one motivating factor to do ANYTHING. :)

ANd the whole, it starts with a D shit, could land you with a bottle of useless pink Darvocets! LOL!

Exactly! Since when does an EC resident have the time to sit down and write out a detailed letter about how TO score in the EC. Arrgh!!!

There are a lot of docs who do it because they genuinely want to help people. That's why the bad ones hurt all of them. You wouldn't believe the debt most docs are in after they're out on their own. Medical school costs lots of money. It takes them a long time before they see the bigger bucks.

And the "starts with a D" line is straight from the television show - ER! Season 1 - I have it on DVD :D

[CIIORNOTHING]

Exactly! Since when does an EC resident have the time to sit down and write out a detailed letter about how TO score in the EC. Arrgh!!!

There are a lot of docs who do it because they genuinely want to help people. That's why the bad ones hurt all of them. You wouldn't believe the debt most docs are in after they're out on their own. Medical school costs lots of money. It takes them a long time before they see the bigger bucks



Yes I would. I was pre-med and my best freind went on to be OB/GYN well I dropped out and settled being a Paramedic. I also worked as a Paramedic in the ED on my off days. Residents work thier asses off, long crazy hours, 100s of thousands in debt. But I still have hard time feeling sorry for them :)

[SpecialGuy69]

regardless of if its authentic or not (I told you I found it on craigslist), point is the same: its decent basic advice (be polite, dont fake chest pain to go to the front of the line) and it got me interested in the topic, last night I read a bunch of stuff written by ER doctors on HOW TO spot drug seekers- and those how-to-spot guides can just as easily be how-to-score guides. Best strategy at the ER so far seems to be: get sickle cell. Other than that, go to your neighborhood dope man.

[Uncle Wiggly]

Yes I would. I was pre-med and my best freind went on to be OB/GYN well I dropped out and settled being a Paramedic. I also worked as a Paramedic in the ED on my off days. Residents work thier asses off, long crazy hours, 100s of thousands in debt. But I still have hard time feeling sorry for them :)

Don't sell yourself short. I wouldn't look at it as settling to be a Paramedic. Most of us in the field (or used to be in the field :D ) have nothing but respect for you all. You're the first line of defense for most people who are crashing.

"Best strategy at the ER so far seems to be: get sickle cell. Other than that, go to your neighborhood dope man."

That's what Raz has been saying since the beginning of this thread.



PAX

[Raz]

Goin to the ER is probably a cry for help more than a cry for dope?

[CIIORNOTHING]

Hey thanks Wiggle. My folks would disagree and did nothing but bitch at me for dropping out of school. Anway, I appreciate that. I miss that work. Im in sales now , totally different. Much better money but boring as hell.

And hey Raz, I hear you bro, and agree to some extent. Most times I went to the ER it was a cry for help alright, "help me stop thse fucking WD's". And for me, Ive never had a solid source for pills and I havent done the H road yet.....trying not to.

[Uncle Wiggly]

Hey thanks Wiggle. My folks would disagree and did nothing but bitch at me for dropping out of school. Anway, I appreciate that. I miss that work. Im in sales now , totally different. Much better money but boring as hell.

And hey Raz, I hear you bro, and agree to some extent. Most times I went to the ER it was a cry for help alright, "help me stop thse fucking WD's". And for me, Ive never had a solid source for pills and I havent done the H road yet.....trying not to.

I had to leave the med field as well. Besides having Stones and Crohn's I've got Torticollis (too bad the 3rd disease didn't rhyme with Stones- and Crohn's- like maybe Broken Bones. I'll have to try for another illness that rhymes with the first two) ANYWAY -- I had to quit because I couldn't lift people up on the table any longer etc... I'm sure you get the idea.

However - Now I can get anything I want drug-wise. I could walk into any EC and get scripted. Fuck - I look like Quasimodo on a bad hair day. :D But that would be wrong. You've got to look at the big picture. It just messes it up for the folks who really need to be there. I get enough meds from my PM doc for all my needs -- most of the time. There have been times I've had to go and even if you get triaged straight into treatment there's still people either more emergent or playing games with the system in front of or next to you. I've been there enough times that my wife and I have it worked out to where she drops me off and I call her to pick me up when it's over. Hell - why should she have to sit there while I'm waiting to be seen and treated.


Once I had went in for renal colic and I was sitting on the gurney waiting to be seen. The lady who's on the gurney to my right is talking to her BF about where they're going to eat after they get out of there. I'm still giving them the benefit-of-the-doubt until I hear the curtain slide open and the doc walk in. Then she starts saying how much it hurts and she's sick to her stomach from the pain. I just kept my lips zipped. As fucked-up as I think it is to scam the the EC - I think it's even more fucked-up to drop a dime on any one.


The moral of this story. As I was being discharged so was the couple who were next to me. I made it a point to walk out the door just behind them. When we got outside I started walking toward where my wife was waiting and I said, "Have a nice dinner." They knew I was talking to them because they both turned to look at me. I just smiled and got in the car and left.;)

I'm not really knocking any of you who have had to use the EC for getting well/high. I know we all have to do what we have to do - OK. Sorry about the ramble. I happen to be dealing with a stone as I write this but not to worry. I'm well medicated. Thanks you and good day. :rolleyes:

PAX

[CIIORNOTHING]

I had to leave the med field as well. Besides having Stones and Crohn's I've got Torticollis (too bad the 3rd disease didn't rhyme with Stones- and Crohn's- like maybe Broken Bones. I'll have to try for another illness that rhymes with the first two) ANYWAY -- I had to quit because I couldn't lift people up on the table any longer etc... I'm sure you get the idea.

However - Now I can get anything I want drug-wise. I could walk into any EC and get scripted. Fuck - I look like Quasimodo on a bad hair day. :D But that would be wrong. You've got to look at the big picture. It just messes it up for the folks who really need to be there. I get enough meds from my PM doc for all my needs -- most of the time. There have been times I've had to go and even if you get triaged straight into treatment there's still people either more emergent or playing games with the system in front of or next to you. I've been there enough times that my wife and I have it worked out to where she drops me off and I call her to pick me up when it's over. Hell - why should she have to sit there while I'm waiting to be seen and treated.


Once I had went in for renal colic and I was sitting on the gurney waiting to be seen. The lady who's on the gurney to my right is talking to her BF about where they're going to eat after they get out of there. I'm still giving them the benefit-of-the-doubt until I hear the curtain slide open and the doc walk in. Then she starts saying how much it hurts and she's sick to her stomach from the pain. I just kept my lips zipped. As fucked-up as I think it is to scam the the EC - I think it's even more fucked-up to drop a dime on any one.


The moral of this story. As I was being discharged so was the couple who were next to me. I made it a point to walk out the door just behind them. When we got outside I started walking toward where my wife was waiting and I said, "Have a nice dinner." They knew I was talking to them because they both turned to look at me. I just smiled and got in the car and left.;)

I'm not really knocking any of you who have had to use the EC for getting well/high. I know we all have to do what we have to do - OK. Sorry about the ramble. I happen to be dealing with a stone as I write this but not to worry. I'm well medicated. Thanks you and good day. :rolleyes:

PAX


Good post man. And I hear you. Im lucky that today I dont have to do the ER scam thing because I have a very generous pain doc and not so lucky to have two slipped disks L4-L5-S1. Also my wife works in a vet practice and lets just say they dont keep tight controls on the inventory at all.

I agree about the ER thing, but hey, sometimes when youre hurting bad enough, you will try anything. Bad WDs will make you lose every ounce of shame you even dreamed about having :)

[EleusisII]

Meh, scamming ER's work for me.... Yeah, I've been given Ultram too on a few occasions, but I've also walked out with OCs, so it's not like it's impossible to get good meds there. I usually walk out with percocets or sometimes vicodin, so it's not like it's impossible by any means...

And as for those who have a real ailment, and don't get anything, I'm sorry for ya. I really am, and if I could do something about it, I would... But it's not my fault.

It's not like there's a limited amount of narcotics out there, and if I get some, the dude with a broken leg doesn't get any. Blame the shitty doc, who doesn't give you a script, but don't blame me or other scammers.

[Uncle Wiggly]

Meh, scamming ER's work for me.... Yeah, I've been given Ultram too on a few occasions, but I've also walked out with OCs, so it's not like it's impossible to get good meds there. I usually walk out with percocets or sometimes vicodin, so it's not like it's impossible by any means...

And as for those who have a real ailment, and don't get anything, I'm sorry for ya. I really am, and if I could do something about it, I would... But it's not my fault.

It's not like there's a limited amount of narcotics out there, and if I get some, the dude with a broken leg doesn't get any. Blame the shitty doc, who doesn't give you a script, but don't blame me or other scammers.

Have you even read these posts! Read my last post. Quote "I'm not really knocking any of you who have had to use the EC for getting well/high. I know we all have to do what we have to do - OK." Basically what most of us are saying is that scammers clog up the system. And, there are much better ways of scoring than to wait for X amount of hours, getting a prostate exam, sitting next to some one taking a BM... It's not even a question of getting scripted. Trust me - for those of us who need to go getting a script is the least of our worries. It's the fucking waiting. You see when you're in real pain time tends to drag on. Bye - bye

[EleusisII]

Hey Uncle!

(I gotta be more clear in my posts... This is the second time you think I'm attacking/arguing against you opinion, without that being the case ;) )

You're a cool dude, and I hear what you say, but I wasn't really refering to your post... Just addressing some of the arguments that you sometimes hear against ER-fishing.

And as for clogging up the ER, and making real emergencies take hours and hours, again: It's not (us) scammers fault. From what I hear and read about American ERs, a much bigger problem is the fact that there is no universal single payer coverage. Hence people that can't afford seeing a real doctor, are forced to go to the ER with their pneumonia/bronchitis or other problems that might be serious, but don't warrant an emergency room.

[Raz]

Uncle Wiggly, i aint lookin for no brownie points, but what you got goin on health wise would have me with a constant half/ounce bag around me at all times...Your a fuckin soldier me ol china...When i got shot through the femur it was my first experience of real physical pain....All through my 18 mth recovery with bolts protudin from my thigh,i didnt have one day without a big fuck off chase.I was smokin train lines man.And nothin i got from the ER would compensate/ease my pain.I managed my own meds and it was called Dr Brown....Just admire your tenacity in stickin wiv it, coz if i were you i would have a major habit and as long as i had that kinda pain i would be chasin every oppurtunity i got...And i would have the hump wiv people cloggin the system up coz they wanted an itsy bitsy teeny weeny bit of respite from a mild pill WD.......Soldier on, you have my respect and my legs crossed at the thought of those kidney stones......Be cool ,respect....Raz

[eerased]

Thanks AO for the posting the letter.
It's a bit sad to see so many fellow junky's knock the ppl that are NOT lucky enough to have a pm doc prescribe everything they need for there pain therefore they have to goto the ER sometimes.

We are all in the same boat I dont think that any of us can look down on one another. I'm sure every single one of us has had to do things we arent so proud of at one time or another.

ps I've been lucky enough not to have to use this recently but let me tell you when I have HAD to use it I paid out the fucking ass for clogging that er!! hundreds of dollars!

[Uncle Wiggly]

Hey Uncle!

(I gotta be more clear in my posts... This is the second time you think I'm attacking/arguing against you opinion, without that being the case ;) )

You're a cool dude, and I hear what you say, but I wasn't really refering to your post... Just addressing some of the arguments that you sometimes hear against ER-fishing.

And as for clogging up the ER, and making real emergencies take hours and hours, again: It's not (us) scammers fault. From what I hear and read about American ERs, a much bigger problem is the fact that there is no universal single payer coverage. Hence people that can't afford seeing a real doctor, are forced to go to the ER with their pneumonia/bronchitis or other problems that might be serious, but don't warrant an emergency room.

Hey EII, even if you were attacking or arguing with my opinion, it's good. That's what these boards are here for. If we get to the place where we can't stand hearing a view-point other than our own then it's pretty sad. Hell I enjoy healthy debate. Just because we might not agree on an issue doesn't mean I think any less of you as a person. It's from the opinions of others that all of us learn to open up and see things from the view-point of another person. It's not like you're insulting me or calling me names like a DOUCHE-BAG :D. This is what open forums are all about.

You have an excellent point about the ECs here being clogged by folks who have no insurance and can't receive preventive care - which would save every one time and money. See - I didn't even think about that until you posted.

[CIIORNOTHING]

Damn it just hit me. If you ever wanted to slang some pills, the er waiting room would be a great place to hang and find customers ;)

[eerased]

Damn it just hit me. If you ever wanted to slang some pills, the er waiting room would be a great place to hang and find customers ;)

OMG it's funny you said this. I remember years and years ago maybe like 10 yrs ago I was at the ER my hubby(dead now) was in a motorcycle accident and I was in the waiting room forever and this guy and I got to talking. I ended up buying 20 loratabs from him. HE said that he goes to the er at least once a week and sells his shit.LOL I'm surprised the ER staff werent suspisions of seeing him there all the time. Funny memories

[Raz]

I met my 1st connect in spain in the ER.....Man i was there with some weird shit going on.I coughed and these things just appeared in my mouth.Man they was like a pair of bolloxs!! "2 big fuckin nuts hangin from the top of my fuckin mouth...
I have since been told they were a thing called Pollopps.My wife says its my just deserts for talkin bolloxs.... But i met my proper 1st connect(not street)in an ER.Just by his appearance alone, i knew he was into Nanu Nanu.So good things can come of visitin the ER... I am not against anyone scorin where ever they choose...But i dont see the point of takin a hit n miss in an over worked under funded ER, when it seems so much simpler to just make a call.....Raz

[eerased]

I met my 1st connect in spain in the ER.....Man i was there with some weird shit going on.I coughed and these things just appeared in my mouth.Man they was like a pair of bolloxs!! "2 big fuckin nuts hangin from the top of my fuckin mouth...
I have since been told they were a thing called Pollopps.My wife says its my just deserts for talkin bolloxs.... But i met my proper 1st connect(not street)in an ER.Just by his appearance alone, i knew he was into Nanu Nanu.So good things can come of visitin the ER... I am not against anyone scorin where ever they choose...But i dont see the point of takin a hit n miss in an over worked under funded ER, when it seems so much simpler to just make a call.....Raz

LOL , I'm picturing you with 2 nuts hanging out your mouth. That had to suck!
I agree with it not really being worth it to hang at the ER hoping to score. Heres the thing that pisses me off. The ppl that use the ER allot for pills but then dont pay there hospitol bills! Now that I'm against. I think if you are going to take up the time/space in the ER you should pay your bill! I had a friend that had over 10,000$ in hospitol bills and had no intention of ever paying the bill! It's outragest here in the states to visit the ER but if your doing just to get well you should pay! payments. I still pay freakin ER payments every month 35$, I still owe around 120 bux! It sucks.. I wonder if we all would pay our bills from the ER if it would help the big picture of healthcare. I dont know but I wonder! Cause damm it's 400$ or more each time I've been to the ER.

[Raz]

^^^^^^ It sure was the nuts.....None of us can really make judgements about other people, unless we start walkin in their shoes...Guess its just my experience with Nurses an stuff...Believe it or not, a gay, scottish Nurse with a hairlip saved my fuckin life...I shit you not!!
But if you knew where i came from as a kid, this guy would've been someone i would of took the piss out of as a youngster.Ironic or what.Now i guess in the land of the livin i just have a soft spot for nurses, or is that a hard area for nurses??? Be cool raz....
PS, female Nurses..http://forum.opiophile.org/images/icons/icon21.gif

[mollywopped]

Hey Uncle!

(I gotta be more clear in my posts... This is the second time you think I'm attacking/arguing against you opinion, without that being the case ;) )

You're a cool dude, and I hear what you say, but I wasn't really refering to your post... Just addressing some of the arguments that you sometimes hear against ER-fishing.

And as for clogging up the ER, and making real emergencies take hours and hours, again: It's not (us) scammers fault. From what I hear and read about American ERs, a much bigger problem is the fact that there is no universal single payer coverage. Hence people that can't afford seeing a real doctor, are forced to go to the ER with their pneumonia/bronchitis or other problems that might be serious, but don't warrant an emergency room.


Read--Illegal aliens.

Uncle Wiggly--This has been bugging me this whole thread. What does EC stand for? I understand and have heard ER and even ED (emergency department, I assume), but I have never heard EC used and can't figure out what it means. Emergency ______? WHAT?? I have to know NOW!! This is really bothering me.

[CIIORNOTHING]

Read--Illegal aliens.

Uncle Wiggly--This has been bugging me this whole thread. What does EC stand for? I understand and have heard ER and even ED (emergency department, I assume), but I have never heard EC used and can't figure out what it means. Emergency ______? WHAT?? I have to know NOW!! This is really bothering me.


I hadnt heard it either, but I assumed Emergency Center???

[LorTabitha]

What does EC stand for?

Emergency Clinic?
Emergency Care?
Emergency Center?

[CIIORNOTHING]

Emergency Clinic?
Emergency Care?
Emergency Center?


a few times ive gotten a bitchy ass nurse or female doc, and then the C stands for something totally different :D

[SpecialGuy69]

Damn it just hit me. If you ever wanted to slang some pills, the er waiting room would be a great place to hang and find customers There is really only two good farmacias in Northern Virginia for CII's. And you can tell who is there for good pills. Back when they still made ABG oc's, EVERYONE who had an OC script went to these two pharmacies because they ALWAYS had ABG's. Anyways, a cute girl I know used to come with me and chat up the other customers. Twice she scored oxys. She also met a great connect smoking a cigarette out front of the EC. It helps to be an attractive female, no random guys want to talk to me.

[Uncle Wiggly]

Read--Illegal aliens.

Uncle Wiggly--This has been bugging me this whole thread. What does EC stand for? I understand and have heard ER and even ED (emergency department, I assume), but I have never heard EC used and can't figure out what it means. Emergency ______? WHAT?? I have to know NOW!! This is really bothering me.

Emergency Center. The hospital I used to work for, and some others, are getting away from calling it an emergency room as it implies a very small area. I think it's the A n R peeps idea. Frankly I don't think it matters as most people know what an ER is. But after the change I just got used to calling it the EC.

Sorry to took me so long to post back. I had to give a T-Bone lesson blah - blah. I hope you didn't blow a gasket or anything. :D

PAX

[CIIORNOTHING]

Yep, I remember most of them wanting to get away from ER. ED was what most of ours went to...

I sure miss that work. The er was fun but the field was where the excitment was. I worked during the height of gang bullshit so almost every night we were running shootings and multiple shootings. Got shot at a few times oursleves too. Now thats adrenaline rush I wont forget.

Now I sit at a boring desk....what a turn around. :(

[Uncle Wiggly]

I think most people who choose to go into emergency medicine are adrenalin junkies. The first place my wife worked was in the EC and she did it because of the excitement. There was always something different going not just the same types of cases - one after the other. To this day my wife says the EC is where she learned the most about medicine. When I first started my job as an X-Ray tech I used to hate having to go to the EC to do portables. I can recall several incidences of slipping and sliding because of all the blood on the floor. Everybody's yelling and running. At first it was confusing but after I got to know my stuff it was more like a well choreographed ballet. Those folks know just what they're doing and do it with extreme proficiency.

BTW - I think it was Pharmboy who said at the EC he used to work at they called the known scammers the Best Dressed List. I had mentioned the Frequent Fliers Club. Actually the only reason I said that was because that's what they call them on the television show - ER and I figured most people could relate. At the hospital where I worked we called them the MUD CLUB. All you old punk rockers gotta remember the Mud Club. Why the Mud Club - Mud was actually an acronym for My Unknown Doctor. Which cracked me up because folks would come in and when the triage nurse was getting their history it seems like hardly any could remember the name of their primary physicians. Thus the M.U.D. Club.

I think different hospitals have their own names for it. I'm almost certain I've heard it called the Best Dressed List before. Oh and I mentioned the word GOMER. This can mean different things depending, I think, on what region of the country your in. Where I used to work GOMER was an acronym used for a person who had no business being in the ER (still weird to call it that) whether they were looking to score, hypochondriacs or what. Anyway GOMER means
Get Outta My Emergency Room. While these colorful acronyms were never written on people's charts the nurses would say to me, "We've got a member of the Mud Club here who needs a chest. (X-Ray) They're a little bit twitchy so watch your back." In other words don't leave anything within their reach or they just might pick it up and chuck it at me. I've had that happen on more than on occasion also. Nothing as dangerous as CII has experienced. I just thought I'd clear-up a few things.



PAX

[CIIORNOTHING]

Thats funny. I can still hear the sound of that damn portable x-ray machine rolling around and having to get out of the way of it when they came into the trauma room to shoot film. Where I worked we were a levl I trauma center and operated two Bell Jet Ranger choppers. We were the only air rescue service in the countr that flew a trauma surgeon on board 24x7. They went belly up (actually the whole hospital did) but man oh man was it cool back then. I got to see it from both sides. In the field as a medic, calling the chopper to bad trauma cases and working in the ER seeing what happens once they get to the trauma room.

I will say this. When youre in a rural area 100 miles from nowhere in a ditch and up to your ass in mud, with multiple victims in bad shape, there is no better sound and sight than seeing that damn surgeon roll out of that chopper with two nurses. Especially when there are children involved. Ive seen the doc crack chests open right there in the field and reach into the chest cavity and do a massage right there in the middle of the road or sew up torn aorta's, put in chest tubes, etc. Thats just nuts. Those guys saved a lot of lives.

Can you tell I miss it? :)

And back when I was doing that job, it was before the huge doc shopping scams got outted, etc. We just called them regulars or pill heads. No special names.

Oh and gomers were what we called little old men and ladies from the nursing home that clogged up the ER with fevers, urinaty tract infections and colds. The nurses in the nursing homes would want to get thier patients sent out to the hospitla so they wouldnt have to do any work, so for the slightest thing they went to the ER. Fucking GOMERS.

[eerased]

Sounds like such an interesting job! I wish I would have went to school. When I lived in Jacksonville I wanted to become an EMT my sister (foster) is an RN she works in the ER and she's told me some stories. I never ended up going to EMT school because I was always to afraid of failure. Boy do I wish I would have though. I could work Everywhere and Anywhere I wanted to on the road! There are always places looking to hire temp nurses and such! Dangit now I'm mad at myself!

Uncle, do you know anything about medical transcription? I heard that you can work from home online and make major dollars. There is also someway to do all the classes to learn it online. This is something that I could still learn I'm not to over the hill yet.. Maybe one of yins here will know something about it??:confused:

[CIIORNOTHING]

traveling RNs are making a fortune. I just couldnt do the RN school thing. Im in the deep south and the stereotype thing kept from feeling ok about doing that. Paramedic seemed more manly LOL ! And paramedics get to do more invasive procedures than RNs....but boy is the money way less.

and Im sorry, I dont know much about the online or medical transcription thing. IVe been out of soooooo long. I feel so old....

[OxyContinuously]

i agree w Raz on this one


if u are at the point where the ER of all places is where u hope to score, then you need to quit entirely, or go into methadone or Suboxone treatment, OR go to the hood and get a dope connect.

this "going to the ER and walking out with percs" is played out.

[EleusisII]

Then explain to me please, how come I walk out with percs most of the time I visit an ER?

[mollywopped]

Emergency Center. The hospital I used to work for, and some others, are getting away from calling it an emergency room as it implies a very small area. I think it's the A n R peeps idea. Frankly I don't think it matters as most people know what an ER is. But after the change I just got used to calling it the EC.

Sorry to took me so long to post back. I had to give a T-Bone lesson blah - blah. I hope you didn't blow a gasket or anything. :D

PAX



Thanks. I am alright, I made it through. It was just really bothering me because I could not think of anything that the C could have stood for. Know what I mean? When something is right there but you can't figure it out or like when you are trying to remember a name or something and it is right there, but you just can't pull it out. Makes you want to scream. Emergency Center never crossed my mind, probably because I have never heard it called that, but it makes sense. Are a lot of places calling it that now? I have seen Emergency Department, but never EC.

[OxyContinuously]

Then explain to me please, how come I walk out with percs most of the time I visit an ER?

thats your perogative; if it works more power to you. for me, though, it's not worth the hassle and the possibility that i may not walk out w/ anything and would have wasted my time...

[the Red qUeen]

I have perhaps one of the most successful ER score histories of all time. I have been all over the US, and seen every kind of ED and ER doc. After twelve years of perfecting my technique, and lots of failures and terse encounters, there is something so natural about it now, I don't know if I could even objectively outline
any of the best tips...
But to expand on some of the things I saw mentioned, I can confirm their usefulness in making or breaking the transaction. Let me enter at this juncture that I have left ER's with full month supplies of 100 mg morphine caps, 30 mg IR's, and 90 2 mg xanax bars, time and time again. It's called being the "maker", to quote a great movie I saw a long time ago. You have to be infused with confidence and please, educate yourselves on all the possible pharmaceuticals you might need to divert the doc from giving you. And if you say you are "allergic", be prepared to support that with the reaction experienced to the "allergen" and make sure it's a reaction that agent induces, or they'll know you're lying.
Good public relations goes further than anything else. Be engaging and personable without over doing it. Too many compliments or any remarks that could cause discomfort will sink you before you ever set sail.
Playing dumb about the effect of pain meds and your knowledge of the names of specific medications will not help you, it hurts you. If you have any pain management history at all, YOU KNOW, and they know that.
Feigning ignorance isn't going to give them much faith in your ability to handle your dosing regulation, either.
I think one of the most important highlights of the whole game is the uniform. Your clothing, bodily cleanliness, and smell, (or just a lack of a foul one), are indicators of status and self-care that are essential to set the staff at ease with you and help them not wax self-righteous on your ass for being a junkie and a nasty slob. I have laid my dope-sick ass on a million stretchers across this continent, heaving, reeling, aching in the deep center of my bone marrow, rocking side to side for some kind of relief, and when you're down this far, you don't have much control over anything. Go before you get to that point. Go before you are desperate, but don't go scratching all over with your pin-point pupils and nods! The totally messed up thing about my experience is that I let incompetent doctors convince me that I was dope seeking because they couldn't find what was causing my pain. I treated myself like an addict and was all about easing the score and NOT getting lots of tests and procedures that might uncover the lack of cause for my pain. Because things are upside down and backwards, I nearly died from an 8 1/2 pound necrotic gallbladder that was the size of a small watermelon and FULL of huge stones and all kinds of infection. It was found in, you guessed it, an ER, by my neighbor who was one of the docs there. He knew I was on pain management and didn't ever sweat giving me between 20-60 pills of whatever I needed. But this one time, when he saved my life, he called out the problem before a test was ever done.
They performed an ultrasound and I was rushed to emergency surgery. If it had popped, and it was just about to, I would have digested myself from the inside out, in some of the worst pain known to man. I would have died before they could've figured out what was causing my pain.
Be very careful and watch your health, live to do drugs another day!
And if that's not enough, live to keep from fucking things up for the rest of us, because nothing spells trouble for scoring quite like a high body count of junkie carnage. DEA always steps up their efforts when white, suburban, under thirty's start dying, and I think that's probably the largest percentage of the demographic of the narcotic pill seeking populous. Until our policies toward pain management change and palliative care is not feared, we'll have to keep honing our skills to perfection or resorting to criminal behaviors to meet the opiate demand. One day, lawmakers will be forced to see their efforts are futile, and maybe then we can step back and rethink how we handle this aspect of our society. It doesn't have to be the problem it's always vilified as being.
Happy scoring fellow philes,
live long and prosper

[the Red qUeen]

Sounds like such an interesting job! I wish I would have went to school. When I lived in Jacksonville I wanted to become an EMT my sister (foster) is an RN she works in the ER and she's told me some stories. I never ended up going to EMT school because I was always to afraid of failure. Boy do I wish I would have though. I could work Everywhere and Anywhere I wanted to on the road! There are always places looking to hire temp nurses and such! Dangit now I'm mad at myself!

Uncle, do you know anything about medical transcription? I heard that you can work from home online and make major dollars. There is also someway to do all the classes to learn it online. This is something that I could still learn I'm not to over the hill yet.. Maybe one of yins here will know something about it??:confused:

The most critical element of transcribing is being able to type.
It appears you have that skill already!
There are many different methods, and every doc has personal preferences, but there are machines that have little headsets and foot pedals for controlling the feed of the recording you listen to as you translate the audio notes of the doc to typed text to be included in the patient's file. You can do this from just about anywhere, and the money can be quite good. If you are not particularly familiar with medical terminology and the spelling of certain words, a software application specifically oriented to medicine can be used as a checker/editor for the text as you generate it.
It's not too hard for you to learn, you're never too old to learn a new trick!
You'll be great! Now go find out about some online schools and check into equipment and start familiarizing yourself with the process. Wiki medical transcription and Google the hell out of it, that's a great way to begin learning on your own!
Lots of luck!

[ndoftaworld]

Sorry for reviving an old thread, just wanted to add my experiences.

When I've gone into the ER for pain, some w/d possibly, but legitimate pain, I've always been asked what works best for me. So I have to choose... do I want dilauted, demerol, or morphine?

Then the nurse is instructed to split the dose, so how much is given does depend on your attitude toward her. You could get 2mg of morphine at first, but have to wait an hour and a half for the rest, being a kiss ass is worse than being rude, so I try to be sociable, but not totally conversational.

Once the xrays or ct are done, and once again nothing conclusive is found I'm instructed to followup with a PCP in a few days, and usually given 10 vics filled at the hospital with a script for 30 to take home. The ER docs around here can't write for CII take-home scripts, so Vics or Norco 10's are the most you can get.

As stated before, pointless just to get a fix, but if it's not just w/d and truly tremendous pain the ER can be a godsend.

Again, just my 2 cents.

Nd

[SHELLEY]

shit i went to the er when i got hit by a car
and those mofo's were positive i was after drugs
if i wanted drugs, i coulda dialed 7 digits on my cell
and had real shit in my hand in 15 minutes
they'll even deliver to my building (even when it's far!)
sitting in the er and lying my ass off for some stupid vics
is not my style one bit

luckily they recognized that i never get pain scripts
never doc shop, never visit er's complaining of pain
computers sho' do kick ass!
plus they did an xray and seen my elbow was broken
so i got percs anyways
...not that perc-5s do a goddamn thing

[ndoftaworld]

Don't diss them perc 5's!! Cause that's all I got right now :(

[Inspektahdek]

Sorry for reviving an old thread, just wanted to add my experiences.

When I've gone into the ER for pain, some w/d possibly, but legitimate pain, I've always been asked what works best for me. So I have to choose... do I want dilauted, demerol, or morphine?

Then the nurse is instructed to split the dose, so how much is given does depend on your attitude toward her. You could get 2mg of morphine at first, but have to wait an hour and a half for the rest, being a kiss ass is worse than being rude, so I try to be sociable, but not totally conversational.

Once the xrays or ct are done, and once again nothing conclusive is found I'm instructed to followup with a PCP in a few days, and usually given 10 vics filled at the hospital with a script for 30 to take home. The ER docs around here can't write for CII take-home scripts, so Vics or Norco 10's are the most you can get.

As stated before, pointless just to get a fix, but if it's not just w/d and truly tremendous pain the ER can be a godsend.

Again, just my 2 cents.

Nd

2mg of morphine IV is almost nothing ! Did you really mean 2mg? Last shot I got in the hospital a long time ago for pain was 15mg and I barely felt it. maybe my tolerance sucks, then again I was shooting morphine 30mg at a time and it was OK, but I suck at self prep IV anyhow

[ndoftaworld]

Whoops! Sorry, since my weight and not so long history of cp/lack of tolerance I was getting 20mg, but had to wait for frickin' ever for more. Used to piss me off!

(I guess that was purty stupid, cause when I was in the hospital my PCA pump was 10mg every 15 min.)

Jeez, I'll go slap myself now.

Nd

[D-BoyJake]

Interesting.

There's a blog I like to read about an ER Dr. who used to be in the military.

And then I found this: http://gruntdoc.com/2005/10/tips-for-the-ed-drug-seeker.html

It was written in '05. The craigslist was written in, what? 07?

Someone plagiarized the original?

[SonarOC80]

OK, that was probably the most unprofessional doctor I ever saw in my life. It doesn't matter if a patient has a shady history or is "pissing you off" they are still a patient and should be treated with the same objectivity as anyone else. It doesn't matter if the patient is a convicted child molester or a homeless person that smells like feces, a patient is a patient and should be treated as such. Treatment shouldn't be based on how much you "like" the patient or how personable they are. Hope all doctors aren't like this.

[ndoftaworld]

Had a recent trip to the ER couple days ago... doc said he'd make me comfortable, not telling what I was getting. After 1 injection (in the exam room for 4 hours) was discharged w/ fucking Toradol! Called my PM doc and explained, he couldn't see me till first of Jan., but told me to go back to ER. Fucking Dr. (different) said "I'll help w/ the nausea, but NO pain meds." I slid my PM's card to her and she went and called him... 40 min. later came back with a script of 20 perc's. Ain't great, definitely not relief, but @ least I don't have to sue for refusal to treat a patient ;)

Gotta love (some) of those PM doc's lol.

Appt w/ him is the 6th, Celiac Plexius Block the 8th... anybody been thru one? Any advice, good or bad?

Thx,

Nd

[sweetpain]

concerning hospitals giving out pain meds in the ER. I was in the ER one day suffering severe hip pain from a disease called AVN (avascular necrosis). In the past, when I ran out of my oxy's too soon, I knew I could go to the ER and they would give me a shot and an Rx for either percs or vicodin.

This particular afternoon, doc gave me 2 shots. The nurse said it was to keep me from throwing up from the 2nd shot. I don't know what it was but I was on cloud nine for about an hour. Sent me home with 20 percs 4 hrs later and told me hospital was going to get tighter on RX's for chronic pain patients. He said if it was acute pain like a broken leg, migraine or fall that hurt my back or something, they would treat me, otherwise no help for chronic pain.

I left the hospital wondering if he was jus saying that, but didn't pay much attention cuz I had my percs. Well, about 2 months later, went in for hip and back pain. Doc gave me Tramadol. I told him it made me ill, so he says ok I'll write it for something else. Thinking I had a script for Vics or Percs, I left. When I got in my car, it was for Motrin 800mg. Dang.

A few weeks later, I went in with a really bad toothache. Doc looked into my mouth, told me it was absessed and wrote script for 30 vicodin and anti-biotics (btw the combination took care of my toothache pain).

What I'm getting out of this is that docs are sick and tired of seeing the same people all the time-knowing they probably are in pain but wondering-if we are in so much pain, why aren't we seeing a PM doc for maintenance. They can't afford lawsuits when a patient OD's on narcotics. (LOL, like we don't know our tolerance and limit).

Just FYI-sorry, didn't mean to write a book, just wanted to let you know what I'm hearing from the ER doctors/nurses.

[squareone]

concerning hospitals giving out pain meds in the ER. I was in the ER one day suffering severe hip pain from a disease called AVN (avascular necrosis). In the past, when I ran out of my oxy's too soon, I knew I could go to the ER and they would give me a shot and an Rx for either percs or vicodin.

This particular afternoon, doc gave me 2 shots. The nurse said it was to keep me from throwing up from the 2nd shot. I don't know what it was but I was on cloud nine for about an hour. Sent me home with 20 percs 4 hrs later and told me hospital was going to get tighter on RX's for chronic pain patients. He said if it was acute pain like a broken leg, migraine or fall that hurt my back or something, they would treat me, otherwise no help for chronic pain.

I left the hospital wondering if he was jus saying that, but didn't pay much attention cuz I had my percs. Well, about 2 months later, went in for hip and back pain. Doc gave me Tramadol. I told him it made me ill, so he says ok I'll write it for something else. Thinking I had a script for Vics or Percs, I left. When I got in my car, it was for Motrin 800mg. Dang.

A few weeks later, I went in with a really bad toothache. Doc looked into my mouth, told me it was absessed and wrote script for 30 vicodin and anti-biotics (btw the combination took care of my toothache pain).

What I'm getting out of this is that docs are sick and tired of seeing the same people all the time-knowing they probably are in pain but wondering-if we are in so much pain, why aren't we seeing a PM doc for maintenance. They can't afford lawsuits when a patient OD's on narcotics. (LOL, like we don't know our tolerance and limit).

Just FYI-sorry, didn't mean to write a book, just wanted to let you know what I'm hearing from the ER doctors/nurses.

Cool story, super interesting. I have heard its not legal to let a patient go in pain, I think if you tell them your a CP patient there is a predigest there obliviously and for a good reason.

[ItsLupus]

Here is a link for any interested to the American Pain Society.It might be able to answer a few questions and give those of us who have CP ammo for the next ER visit.

http://www.ampainsoc.org/

IL

[Duckfeet]

The truth is, that more and more docs realize that tho we might bitch, they don't really get in trouble for underprescribing opiates...and can get on all kinds of radar and legal trouble if they overprescribe...and this PM docs are also now on the DEA's wavelength, so even if you see PM's--which I have--and they get any whiff of previous drug abuse, forget about it...Half the time I think my tattoos, and the fact the nurse has trouble finding veins, are also big tip-offs...docs aren't stupid, and they don't usually lay awake at night worrying that they didn't give us enough pain meds...I don't see any lite at the end of this tunnel, unfortunately...not now anyway...

As I've said before, this is a "relatively" new notion, and IMH, began w/the invention, promotion, and widespread use by previously *unaddicted* demographic groops of Oxycontin...before that, pain pills, were a limited, "need to know", group of people...u could usuall guarantee at least perks out of a doc or dentist, if not dilaudids...but it's all changed, and DEA's immersion in this field has fucked us all...Docs see hustling junkies all the time, and get *classes* in our drug-seeking behavior....

O well, I really really want to be wrong about this...

[Chuck]

Thanks for that.Although I never go to the ER except to detox and plan to stay there for a few days . it's very useful and looks like it will help many opies here.

that was thoughtful of you

CHUCK

[Swellin]

Ive been to the er 4 times in the past 2 weeks for what is been a legit problem in my live for the past 9 years, im only 20 but ive asked for morphine every time ive gone in and they have given me an iv 3 times, and always some MsContin to take home, and just this last time i got mscontin and MSIR the instant stuff. I was in horrible withdraws for probably 10 days before thinking of goin to the er, and Using my legit pain problem to get some morphine, which i dont feel bad about because ive never gotten any serious help for a real doc, and besides the first two times i went i was in real pain had to wait 8 fn hours though just to get a couple shots of morphine. I am glad i did though, man i cant even describe how good it felt to get that iv morphine while i was in deep wd keep in mind that i only take my drugs orally, i tried my hardest to keep the huge ass grin off my face from the cute nurse that was shooting me up, but she could see how happy i was, and told that i had more "goodies and presents" coming, her words, not mine. I will be going back to te ER tomorrow because i am out of the morphine they gave me, and wont get a prescription filled until Monday, so i could wait 4 days, but im too much of a pussy, will report back if im successful.

[ndoftaworld]

Ive been to the er 4 times in the past 2 weeks for what is been a legit problem in my live for the past 9 years, im only 20 but ive asked for morphine every time ive gone in and they have given me an iv 3 times, and always some MsContin to take home, and just this last time i got mscontin and MSIR the instant stuff...

Now, every time I have to go to the ER (usually bt pain so bad), they say Toradol, and if I'm allergic? Benedryl too :( It's been awhile, but I used to get dilauded there AND some take home, fucking regulations :mad:

Nd

[digby]

The truth is, that more and more docs realize that tho we might bitch, they don't really get in trouble for underprescribing opiates...and can get on all kinds of radar and legal trouble if they overprescribe...and this PM docs are also now on the DEA's wavelength, so even if you see PM's--which I have--and they get any whiff of previous drug abuse, forget about it...Half the time I think my tattoos, and the fact the nurse has trouble finding veins, are also big tip-offs...docs aren't stupid, and they don't usually lay awake at night worrying that they didn't give us enough pain meds...I don't see any lite at the end of this tunnel, unfortunately...not now anyway...

As I've said before, this is a "relatively" new notion, and IMH, began w/the invention, promotion, and widespread use by previously *unaddicted* demographic groops of Oxycontin...before that, pain pills, were a limited, "need to know", group of people...u could usuall guarantee at least perks out of a doc or dentist, if not dilaudids...but it's all changed, and DEA's immersion in this field has fucked us all...Docs see hustling junkies all the time, and get *classes* in our drug-seeking behavior....

O well, I really really want to be wrong about this...

Things seem to be going both directions at once. On one side, we have doctors getting the bejesus scared out of them by the DEA and the court system, while at the same time we have states adopting the doctors and patients bill of rights legislation that is slowly working its magic. I feel sometimes like I'm living the scene out of the movie Platoon, where Sheen's very soul was being contested by the powers of good and evil.

[sweetpain]

Went to ER a couple months ago complaining of hip pain (legit pain-I need 2nd hip rplcmnt but not scheduled yet). Nurse asked if I fell or something to hurt my hip. I told her about the AVN disease I've had for couple years now. She again asked me "are you sure you didn't maybe fall to set the pain off) and I said no. Doc came in, did xray of hip told me the ER does not prescribe narcotic pain meds to chronic pain patients. Now if I fall and hurt myself or break a leg or am in "acute" pain, they would. He prescribed Tramadol. Nurse came back in and said "I was trying to help you but knew when I left the room you weren't going to get anything for pain.

Shit, I've been in the ER in the past where they would give me suck strong pain meds, they would give me 2 shots. The first was to keep me from throwing up from the high dosage of whatever they were going to give me, then another shot w/the pain meds and I would be on cloud 9 for a couple hours. I was dense, didn't pick up on what the nurse was trying to tell me.

It sucks. I did everything right-went in there dressed nice, smelling good, told them pain level was 7-8 (never 9 or 10) , didn't ask for specific med. But evidently, they have changed their policy for not prescribing to pain meds.

Another story-went to ER about a year and half ago-about a month b4 my surgery that "they" were going to do and told them I was in extreme pain, my doc was on vacation and I forgot to call in my refill. They didn't even take my bp. They called me into a room (they called it "fast track"), doc told me he had verified I was scheduled for hip replc w/that hospital; asked me what I was taking for pain and prescribed meds for the full month (120 pills) and sent me on my way-in/out in about 15 min. no lie. You could've blown me over with a feather. I was singing the whole way to the pharmacy.

Hospital doc as well as PCP's, even specialists are running scared on writing scripts for narcotics. Only pain mgt docs don't worry about the DEA. That's what their job is-to dispense pain meds and that's ok w/dea. It's a joke.

I'm terribly upset that the government is jeopardizing pain management to patients who truly have pain. Did they go to medical school for 8-12 years to learn how to be a doctor?

[The Paregoric Man]

How do you all afford to go ER scamming? Its a thousand dollars around here without insurance, hundred and fifty with. All for a handful of vicodin? Thats what I call desperate goddamn. Just buy some pods online or go looking for potent poppy seed if your tolerance is that low.

Edit:LOL I said around here without thinking about it, Texas was where I was speaking of.

[OxiContinKing]

wow that was pretty cool.

you know how you view the threads by clicking the 'new posts' and you can click on the post by the last poster, not new post's since you've read/been here, well thats what i did, and it took me (for some reason) to the top of the page, to dek's post.

whoa

[BrokenPens]

LOL, nice. It's so true. What sucks though is my doc gives me so much medication I don't need to drug seek, but I do have to go to the E.R. for dehydration a lot for my illness... but I am allergic to Ultram, Lyrica, Neurontin, and aspirin... yeah. Looks really bad, but I'm also allergic to morphine so at least that makes me look less horrible.

I love when the true addicts get caught lying. For example: Those aren't track marks, those are spider bite! His headache all of a sudden turned to, "OMG MY BACK I CAN'T MOVE IT HURTS SO BAD! WHY IS THE LITTLE GIRL NEXT TO ME GETTING PAIN MEDICINE AND I'M NOT! SHE CAN'T BE HURTING AS BAD AS ME!!!" The doc was like, "That little girl has a chronic illness and she is in more pain right now than you could ever imagine. We are currently keeping her hydrated and comfortable because she hasn't eaten in 3 days. Your drug test just came back sir, so... wanna be honest about the last time you shot up?" I was so sedated I started giggling and he ordered me an extra dose of Dilaudid right in front of the dude just to piss him off... it was pretty classic.

I'm only 23 and even if I don't ask for pain medicine, some docs will label you as as drug seeker just because you are young. I remember asking the doctor why she was treating me so horribly (she was being rude and it took her 3 hours to order me a saline drip for dehydration, which she had diagnosed me with) because I hadn't asked for pain medication or anything so there's no reason to treat me like a drug addict. She said, "Good because I'm not going to give you anything." This is the point where I pulled out the bottle of Vicodin and 2 boxes of Duragesic patches out of my purse and said, "That's fine because I don't need it." She seemed really pissed. What's worse though, is I went in because I have a history of infections due to lowered immune response and I told her this and told her what needed to be tested for due to my history and she refused to do any testing. My doctor found out about this at my next appointment (2 days later) and made me get admitted to the hospital. Turned out I had an intestinal infection with a 3% mortality rate. Cute, huh?

[sweetpain]

To the ER doc, you are so right. I imagine you could write a book about "dumbasses" that come through your ER every day. It bothers me that so many people who are lying their butts off get what they want whereas someone who really deserves pain meds don't get squat. I guess I'm just not a good liar. I try to reserve saying my pain is a 10/10 for when I'm doubled over crying in pain (which is not unusual for my condition).

I have a condition called AVN (avascular necrosis) in both hips and my left knee. I have been told by my surgeon that the pain is second only to bone cancer. One of my hips collapsed and I had a hip replaced (I'm not that old, only 55) 2 yrs ago. I need my other hip and knee replaced ASAP; however, I work at Walmart and well, you know how that goes-no insurance. Besides I don't have the money and am fearful of losing my job if I take off another 3 or 4 mth for recovery from surgery.

My pain mgt doc just upped my meds to perc 10's but decreased the frequency I take them so it's not working. I am afraid of telling my doc I need something stronger or the perc 10's more frequent fearing she will label my a "drug seeker" (although I've never failed a piss test yet).

What makes me mad is that I know of people who (compared to my 120/mth percs only) get 90 oxycodone 60's along with270 perc 10's) and they don't even have documented conditions. I know a couple guys and they said they don't even need the meds-they go out and sell it, making a fortune. Hell, I run out early and wind up "buying" from them which is ironic. I have mri's proving I have painful conditions (AVM hip/knee pain, osteoarthritis, osteoporosis, microfractures in my back, bi-lateral carpal tunnel syndrome, migraines and nerve pain in both legs). I have 2 strokes this year from high blood pressure and I've been told that when you are in pain, your bp rises. Both times, I was having severe pain but nvr linked the two.

What is the deal? Is there perhaps a way I can approach my doc to let her know that I need something stronger or would be willing to try my current medication but ev 4 hrs instead of 4x day. I've questioned her about my pain treatment, just gone along with the program. But, it's really pissing me off that some people who don't even need it, get it whereas, I don't.

Can someone out there give me advise on how to approach my pm doc?

[Thebane]

To the ER doc, you are so right. I imagine you could write a book about "dumbasses" that come through your ER every day. It bothers me that so many people who are lying their butts off get what they want whereas someone who really deserves pain meds don't get squat. I guess I'm just not a good liar. I try to reserve saying my pain is a 10/10 for when I'm doubled over crying in pain (which is not unusual for my condition).

I have a condition called AVN (avascular necrosis) in both hips and my left knee. I have been told by my surgeon that the pain is second only to bone cancer. One of my hips collapsed and I had a hip replaced (I'm not that old, only 55) 2 yrs ago. I need my other hip and knee replaced ASAP; however, I work at Walmart and well, you know how that goes-no insurance. Besides I don't have the money and am fearful of losing my job if I take off another 3 or 4 mth for recovery from surgery.

My pain mgt doc just upped my meds to perc 10's but decreased the frequency I take them so it's not working. I am afraid of telling my doc I need something stronger or the perc 10's more frequent fearing she will label my a "drug seeker" (although I've never failed a piss test yet).

What makes me mad is that I know of people who (compared to my 120/mth percs only) get 90 oxycodone 60's along with270 perc 10's) and they don't even have documented conditions. I know a couple guys and they said they don't even need the meds-they go out and sell it, making a fortune. Hell, I run out early and wind up "buying" from them which is ironic. I have mri's proving I have painful conditions (AVM hip/knee pain, osteoarthritis, osteoporosis, microfractures in my back, bi-lateral carpal tunnel syndrome, migraines and nerve pain in both legs). I have 2 strokes this year from high blood pressure and I've been told that when you are in pain, your bp rises. Both times, I was having severe pain but nvr linked the two.

What is the deal? Is there perhaps a way I can approach my doc to let her know that I need something stronger or would be willing to try my current medication but ev 4 hrs instead of 4x day. I've questioned her about my pain treatment, just gone along with the program. But, it's really pissing me off that some people who don't even need it, get it whereas, I don't.

Can someone out there give me advise on how to approach my pm doc?

If you start a new thread you'll probably get more responses. I don't know how to go about it but if you have all that documentation you should be able to get more pain meds prescribed, at the worst you'd need to find a new doc who would be willing to help you out more.

[GOLD N DIEMONDS]

If you start a new thread you'll probably get more responses. I don't know how to go about it but if you have all that documentation you should be able to get more pain meds prescribed, at the worst you'd need to find a new doc who would be willing to help you out more.


+1 -- NEW THREAD
NEW DOCTOR

[Madam Oxy]

Actually, there are a ton of threads on how to ask your dr for better meds. Probably hard to find tho with the search engine on here.

Start a new thread. People on here will let you know about the other threads.