Possible High with BUPE in tolerant individuals...

[Inspektahdek]

Hi all, DEK here, this is not credited to me but merely found on a subforum on the net, very interesting to see if this rings true as stated, any takers? Anyhow, read below:

Buprenorphine has one major dealkylated metabolite: Norbuprenorphine. Here is some information on its agonist properties, and binding affinities:

[3]NorBUP exhibited high affinities for µ-, delta -, and kappa -opioid receptors with Ki values in the nanomolar or subnanomolar range, comparable to those of BUP. NorBUP and BUP had low affinities for the ORL1 receptor with Ki values in the micromolar range. In the [35S]GTPgamma S binding assay, norBUP displayed characteristics distinct from BUP. At the delta -receptor, norBUP was a potent full agonist, yet BUP had no agonist activity and antagonized actions of norBUP and DPDPE. At µ- and kappa -receptors, both norBUP and BUP were potent partial agonists, with norBUP having moderate efficacy and BUP having low efficacy. At the ORL1 receptor, norBUP was a full agonist with low potency, while BUP was a potent partial agonist. In the writhing test, BUP and norBUP both suppressed writhing in an efficacious and dose-dependent manner, giving A50 values of 0.067 and 0.21 mg/kg, s.c., respectively. These results highlight the similarities and differences between BUP and norBUP, each of which may influence the unique pharmacological profile of BUP.




Norbuprenophine is a more potent agonist in most areas, and has a higher affinity in most areas. Though it is allegedly not good at crossing the BBB . I find though that this may not be entirely true from my own experiences...

Buprenorphine is metabolized into Norbuprenorphine almost entirely by the P450 cytochrome[1]. This being the case, a P450 Inducer should increase the ratio of Nor-buprenorphine to Buprenorphine. Unfortunately there are not many easily obtained P450 inducers on the market...except for one: St. Johns Wort[2].


SJW is actually a fairly potent P450 inducer, and it specifically involves the enzymes most important of the P450's in the creation of NOR-BUP.

[2][I]The ratios of the treatment to baseline values for CYP3A4 using cortisol as the probe were 1.5 [95% confidence interval (CI) 1.3, 1.9] for males, and 1.9 (1.1, 3.0) for females. The corresponding ratios using dextromethorphan as the probe for CYP2D6 were 0.9 (95% CI 0.5, 2.1) for males and 1.9 (1.3, 3.2) for females. For CYP1A2, a significant increase in the metabolic ratios was found only for females (ratio of values 1.2; 95% CI 1.1, 1.4). No influence of SJW on CYP2D6, NAT2, and XO activities was observed.


CYP3A4 is the primary enzyme involved in the creation of NOR-BUP[3]. The others it induces are also involved in its metabolism; furthering its effect on Nor-bup "synthesis".

This being the case, our theory was such: Taking SJW with Buprenorphine may induce or more opiate like effect than with buprenorphine alone.

Both I and the theories creator found this to be true, inspite of the information stating that Norbuprenorphine has difficulty crossing the Blood Brain Barrier.

Bottom line, tonight was our last human trial: We both have been taking Suboxone for 3 months and it does nothing to me anymore as far as a High goes. When I took St. John's Wort 1.5 hours after taking Suboxone. 45 minutes later I began to enter a manic state. I myself always become manic on opiates. My friend on the other hand becomes quite sedated, and became this way when combining the same two drugs as I. I checked pupil size at this point and found them to be PINPOINT small. About a 45 mintues after this we both began to experience the typical opiate itches. We also ebgan to experience more euphoria then we have had from suboxone since the first days of taking Suboxone, or maybe ever.


For us Saint John's Wort caused Buprenorphine, in Buprenorphine tolerant individuals, to induce a true opiate high. We name this potentiation theory after our muse: We call it the Vickers Method

I do not feel in any way that this was placebo, but no one is immune to the placebo effect. I don't encourage anyone to try this I am simply stating our theory. I would hate to be the person to destroy a "miracle drug".

Dosages Buprenorphine: 12mg Suboxone each (out standard)
Dosages SJW: 600 mg SJW extract ( 0.3 % Hypercin (1.8 mg) )

Again, please we ask no one try this out. We are simply ameteur scholars that had no human subjects other than ourselves.


Be safe everyone, and Props to our Muse.

Some of the sources we used (there were many more):

[1]Characterization of the pharmacokinetics of buprenorphine and
norbuprenorphine in rats after intravenous bolus administration of
buprenorphine
Sumithra Gopala ,*, Tsang-Bin Tzenga, Alan Cowanb
aSchool of Pharmacy, Temple University, Philadelphia, PA 19140, USA
bSchool of Medicine, Temple University, Philadelphia, PA 19140, USA
Received 23 July 2001; received in revised form 21 January 2002; accepted 24 January 2002

[2]Effect of St John's wort on the activities of CYP1A2, CYP3A4, CYP2D6, N-acetyltransferase 2, and xanthine oxidase in healthy males and females

* Markus Wenk,
* Liliane Todesco &
* Stephan Krähenbühl

*
Division of Clinical Pharmacology & Toxicology, Department of Internal Medicine, University Hospital, Basel, Switzerland

[3]Comparison of Pharmacological Activities of Buprenorphine and Norbuprenorphine: Norbuprenorphine Is a Potent Opioid Agonist
Peng Huang, George B. Kehner, Alan Cowan and Lee-Yuan Liu-Chen

[Opiyum]

Buprenorphine is metabolized into Norbuprenorphine almost entirely by the P450 cytochrome[1]. This being the case, a P450 Inducer should increase the ratio of Nor-buprenorphine to Buprenorphine. Unfortunately there are not many easily obtained P450 inducers on the market...except for one: St. Johns Wort[2].


SJW is actually a fairly potent P450 inducer, and it specifically involves the enzymes most important of the P450's in the creation of NOR-BUP.So is this saying that Saint John's wort would increase the efficiency of a dose?

Sorry i'm not very good with all the biology lingo. I realize they are talking about getting high off bupe but I wonder if this could, more realistically, be used to decrease one's bupe dose even further by taking SJW along with it.


I completely do buy the high effect they discovered only because Ive seen it numerous times with people who have a low tolerance(or no tolerance) to opiates get completely smashed on suboxone alone. So maybe SJW helps but for someone like me and a lot of the people on this site it probably isn't going to turn suboxone into an equivalent high as a stronger full agonist opiate like morph or heroin or diaudid.
It's worth a shot though so I will pick up some SJW and see what happens.

And if it does happen to work I will just have to start getting SJW in bulk.

[Suboxstitute]

I'll report as well with the St. John's wort. I have so much extra sub, like 30 8mg tabs or so.

The other day, I took a > normal dose of sub (normal for me is 6-8 maintenance) and I took 8mg one time and 12 the next. With it I took 5mg of clonazepam to which I am not tolerant. (I do take it, but 1.5 mg at night and have for years with no increase in need for anxiety).

I actually caught a little buzz for a while, was in a good mood and had some extra energy. Not much but it's all a girl can get these days.

I just tried it again, since my husband is making me go out to a basketball game (Wisconsin vs. Michigan) and it is freezing fucking cold here and I just want to stay home and be on the 'net. But he thinks he did something very nice by acquiring tickets to a sold out game.

Hope it at least makes me sociable, the poor guy - I haven't been much of a wifey lately. :(

[mikells43]

theres no high with bupe. bupe is used to get well. if u want to get high, just use a real opiate. its that simple. why abuse a good thing when you can just get some oxy or herion and use that.

[lunchbox]

a couple of my friends snorted bupe and got way the fucked up off 8mg they were sick as shit for two days straight throwing up and shit but they have really no tolerance or very little to opies it's definitely possible

[Ron-Doe]

I'll report as well with the St. John's wort. I have so much extra sub, like 30 8mg tabs or so.

The other day, I took a > normal dose of sub (normal for me is 6-8 maintenance) and I took 8mg one time and 12 the next. With it I took 5mg of clonazepam to which I am not tolerant. (I do take it, but 1.5 mg at night and have for years with no increase in need for anxiety).

I actually caught a little buzz for a while, was in a good mood and had some extra energy. Not much but it's all a girl can get these days.

I just tried it again, since my husband is making me go out to a basketball game (Wisconsin vs. Michigan) and it is freezing fucking cold here and I just want to stay home and be on the 'net. But he thinks he did something very nice by acquiring tickets to a sold out game.

Hope it at least makes me sociable, the poor guy - I haven't been much of a wifey lately. :(
i'll go with the hubby, kohl center?

[Opiyum]

theres no high with bupe. bupe is used to get well. if u want to get high, just use a real opiate. its that simple. why abuse a good thing when you can just get some oxy or herion and use that.


It's just curiosity man. I'm not trying to abuse anything. But if I could use SJW to help me lower my dose I will.

Bupe is not used to get well. It is used to maintain. In the same way that people maintain on heroin or methadone or anything else. Bupe just happens to be a legal alternative. It's not as if anyone has ever started taking bupe and then felt that all their prior problems were solved. Unless they are lieing to themselves of course.

Your wrong about no high with bupe btw. For someone like me....Yeah probably no high but because i've seen it with my own eyes I am quite certain your wrong. Let people do what they want to do. How could it possibly effect you if someone tried this and who are you to tell them not to?
Screw it.
It doesn't matter.

I remember you now. You had given me the phone number to a sub clinic that would have saved me a few hundred dollars a month but when you found out that I get prescribed extra every month that I give away to friends in need you told the doctor my name and told her not to take me and she didn't.

[Diluted]

Stuff like this interests me. I'll try it.

[SpecialGuy69]

IIt's not as if anyone has ever started taking bupe and then felt that all their prior problems were solved. Um... Mikellz did.
Unless they are lieing to themselves of course.you said it, not me.

[Thanat0s]

I remember you now. You had given me the phone number to a sub clinic that would have saved me a few hundred dollars a month but when you found out that I get prescribed extra every month that I give away to friends in need you told the doctor my name and told her not to take me and she didn't.


WHOA!!! ...what an asshole! shit, im gonna waste a ton of bupe right now, ill post some pics. fuckstik has no right to screw with your relationship with said doctor. one of those holier than thou'recovery' fucks... wait six months and hes using again and hell have a totally different tune. fuck.

[Nate]

I remember you now. You had given me the phone number to a sub clinic that would have saved me a few hundred dollars a month but when you found out that I get prescribed extra every month that I give away to friends in need you told the doctor my name and told her not to take me and she didn't.

Thats fucked up!

I look forward to hearing people's experiences on the subject, sounds promising.

[chopstix]

I get high on bup everyday, it has enough agonistic action to put me back to sleep in the middle of the night and combined with valium and a couple drinks, I'll surf the web with one eye closed. I don't get full on double vision but my my eyes get whacky and I'll nod like crazy. I've been at this long enough to know that it's not a bs placebo effect either, it's quite consistant..


I remember you now. You had given me the phone number to a sub clinic that would have saved me a few hundred dollars a month but when you found out that I get prescribed extra every month that I give away to friends in need you told the doctor my name and told her not to take me and she didn't.

No. Fucking. Way.

I can't believe what I just read, snitched you off because you help out your friends?? What a crock of shit!!

My first month on bup was someone else's script and if it wasn't for that I could be on fucking methadone right now. Shit probably saved me YEARS of misery.

Mikells:
Dude, that AA BULLSHIT has infected your brain. You should learn to think for yourself. Your self righteous, judgmental recovery BS is ENTIRELY unsolicited here and it's in the rules. If what Opiyum said is true, you have an unbelievable amount of nerve. Regarding your response to this thread, if you haven't noticed, this is where the junkies hang out and junkies like to get high; don't be surprised when you read about opys manipulating their medication in attempt to get off. It's pharmacological research and junkie nature and it's welcome here, your parroting a recovery biased opinion is not. You seem to think that you're fixed because you've been on bup for a year - BFD, three days without your dose and you'd be begging for anything to get you well, guess you won't be asking Opiyum if he can spare a sub, huh??

I frequently wonder wtf you're doing on this board.. Are you "carrying the message," Mikells? Are you 12 stepping us??

Next time you're in the rooms and you get tired of the same person telling the same story for the fortieth time, drinking bad coffee with powdered creamer and eating stale doughnuts; maybe you could pass some yawn time reading some research on your beloved cult:

http://www.orange-papers.org/

[Inspektahdek]

wow, and has anybody made any discoveries yet? I would take bupe exclusively if it provided any maintaining buzz that methadone does for me consistently.

[Papa Verine]

I've been waiting for someone to speak up about this guy. He claims to be sober but he's still on bupe. I was sober for 4 years in AA. I was actually sober, and I didn't preach to anyone. If you wanted it, I'd help you out...otherwise, I minded my own fucking bussiness.

I don't understand why he's here all the time. I sure as fuck don't need to take any AA lessons from this kid! If I want AA I'll go find a meeting...otherwise, I don't want to fuckin hear about it. Especially not from some kid who's not even "really" sober!

[chopstix]

I piped up awhile ago but was basically told to shut it and that the mods would get to him soon enough. No dice though, even though it explicitly states in the rules that this isn't an AA board and we don't want to be 12 stepped.

I've spent years in those rooms and I think they have a purpose, but this isn't the place for that discussion and I agree that it's awful hypocritical to spout "SOBRIETY" with a system full of bup..

I love it when he says "I FEEL GREAT!!" - haha, yeah, so do the people in the H forum..

[Inspektahdek]

I piped up awhile ago but was basically told to shut it and that the mods would get to him soon enough. No dice though, even though it explicitly states in the rules that this isn't an AA board and we don't want to be 12 stepped.

I've spent years in those rooms and I think they have a purpose, but this isn't the place for that discussion and I agree that it's awful hypocritical to spout "SOBRIETY" with a system full of bup..

I love it when he says "I FEEL GREAT!!" - haha, yeah, so do the people in the H forum..



that's quite hilarious no? :D

[Suboxstitute]

i'll go with the hubby, kohl center?


Sorry to go O/T here for a minute......
RonDoe! - knows what and where the Kohl center is... hubby ended up going alone :(

Hubby not a happy hubby. I just didn't feel well, I was freezin' cold from running around all day, and usually when I get offered tickets, I call and ask him if we want to go first. (Fight: part 1).

Sorry I didn't see your post in time. I think his coat sat in the seat. We won, though. I think. I AM a fan, but more of football.

GO BADGERS now that we don't have the PACK anymore this year . . . . .

[Opiyum]

No. Fucking. Way.

I can't believe what I just read, snitched you off because you help out your friends?? What a crock of shit!!

My first month on bup was someone else's script and if it wasn't for that I could be on fucking methadone right now. Shit probably saved me YEARS of miseryIn all fairness I did sometimes exchange my extra subs for dope or oxy's but the only person I ever charged or traded with was a dealer I know who consistently rips people off. He would then sell my subs at a marked up rate but the people that knew where he got them knew to call me first and if I was able I would toss them one or two for free and occasionally if I needed money I would sell them for cost.

This is something I don't do at all anymore. Having recently tried to kick subs I decided to have my doc prescribe me only what I need from month to month. For one I'm losing my health insurance soon and I don't want to pay for 50 subs a month so now I only will have to pay for 14. Plus me not having any extras keeps me from trading them for dope.

I still pay too much every month for my doctors visit.

I want to make it clear that this isn't some fabrication. I wouldn't do that and I probably shouldn't have said anything about in public to begin with but at when the memory struck me of who it was (also I went back in some old pm's and that varified the whole thing) I got pretty irritated that he is still here.
Rereading the PM following the one with the phone number and doctors name really got me pissed off too.


But back to the OP I'm going to get some SJW this upcoming week when I get my Unemployment check. I will make sure to post any results.

[Ron-Doe]

Sorry to go O/T here for a minute......
RonDoe! - knows what and where the Kohl center is... hubby ended up going alone :(

Hubby not a happy hubby. I just didn't feel well, I was freezin' cold from running around all day, and usually when I get offered tickets, I call and ask him if we want to go first. (Fight: part 1).

Sorry I didn't see your post in time. I think his coat sat in the seat. We won, though. I think. I AM a fan, but more of football.

GO BADGERS now that we don't have the PACK anymore this year . . . . .
born and raised in mad town. 27th winter here. brett would have retired w/a sb win anyway

[Suboxstitute]

Ok I haven't tried the St. John's Wort yet, but last night I took 16mg of sub and 4-5mgs of clonazepam at the same time.

It did get me buzzed ... one would say probably from the benzos, but I also had energy like I used to get from oxy's, etc. And benzos alone just put me to sleep in even a normal (1.5mg) dose.

So hubby comes home... takes one look at me and says "what's wrong with you? what did you do? you look funny" and the dreaded "you look like you USED to look" ..... oh oh.

So (part 2 of fight). I told him honestly there are NO opiates in this house (true) and that since I wasn't feeling well, I took an extra clonazepam (well OK 4-5 extra) to try to just settle down and get some rest. Those he knows I have and that they are scripted.

He wasn't buying that's all Ii did. So now he thinks I am up to no good. I got a little buzz out of it. Probably not worth the drama though.

I don't want to find myself addicted to the little K-pins which I have NEVER EVER abused before now.

But it is so B O R I N G . It's the boredom that gets ya......that's why all the experiments....

[Suboxstitute]

Well Ron-Doe we can't know each other since I'm old enough to be your mom.

But I'm a cool mom. I'm down wid the thing, whatever dat thing is, I'm down wid it. What is da thing by the way? (OK, I've used that one before.)

Kinda funny, and scary at the same time, to find someone from your exact same not-so-large town on the board.

I wasn't born here, but been here since grad school late 80's. Lovely place with the lakes and the University - except for when it gets FREEZING ASS COLD and blowing wind like yesterday.

Sorry for O/T again. Back to our regularly schedule program: foolin around with bupe to make it do something day.

[deathboy]

Frankly, if I were shooting for something that inhibited the P450 (CYP) enzyme system and specifically CYP3A4 I would shoot for (drum roll please) - LUVOX. I'm on LUVOX (and a zillion other drugs) for OCD and MDD and BPD and GAD and let me tell you - it potentiates opiates and benzos big time.

Higher for longer - what a great concept! :D

DB

[chopstix]

Frankly, if I were shooting for something that inhibited the P450 (CYP) enzyme system and specifically CYP3A4 I would shoot for (drum roll please) - LUVOX. I'm on LUVOX (and a zillion other drugs) for OCD and MDD and BPD and GAD and let me tell you - it potentiates opiates and benzos big time.

Higher for longer - what a great concept! :D

DB

Read the post - this isn't another case for CYP*** inhibition, this is about the opposite idea: inducing the enzymes to INCREASE metabolism in order to convert bup into NORbup, which has more of an agonistic mechanism than the former..

[mikells43]

It's just curiosity man. I'm not trying to abuse anything. But if I could use SJW to help me lower my dose I will.

Bupe is not used to get well. It is used to maintain. In the same way that people maintain on heroin or methadone or anything else. Bupe just happens to be a legal alternative. It's not as if anyone has ever started taking bupe and then felt that all their prior problems were solved. Unless they are lieing to themselves of course.

Your wrong about no high with bupe btw. For someone like me....Yeah probably no high but because i've seen it with my own eyes I am quite certain your wrong. Let people do what they want to do. How could it possibly effect you if someone tried this and who are you to tell them not to?
Screw it.
It doesn't matter.

I remember you now. You had given me the phone number to a sub clinic that would have saved me a few hundred dollars a month but when you found out that I get prescribed extra every month that I give away to friends in need you told the doctor my name and told her not to take me and she didn't.




no in fact heres what you exactly told me, and ill even quote it, " thanks alot man, now thanks to you, i will make alot more money each month selling my subs, thanks alot ." if u would have told me that u give them out i wouldnt have cared, but you told me that thanks to me you are going to make more money each month. and the fact that you just lied right to my own face in that post is funny. i have a good memory even tho i abused my brain, and that is with you wrote cause i remember. now only if i could spell. but you certianlly didnt tell me what you wrote there. but hey think what you wannt think. thats on u not me. enough people take advantage of doctors like i have cause they are caring and go and divert their scripts. but bluntly thanking me for increasing your yeild financially for me refering you to a doctor thats less expensive isn't the cool thing to do, no one thanks someone for a referal then says im just going to dump the 40 or so i dont take. not even in the real opiate game this does not happen. and if someone would refer you to their doc(someone taking pain killers ), and you told them what you told me, i bet they would do the exact same thing. but i give props for being honest . and how can u just lie like that lol. thats totally not what you said, and down in the bottom of ur heart or brain u kno that.

yea im willing to help anyone out. but if u were me , and seen that response u gave me, what would u have done.

and making note on that, my bupe doc is also a good friend of mine, I watch out for her, therefore i will not refer someone to her if its a risk to her liscense and general practice at hand.. it isn't worth it for her to help you and then not follow orders, if u dont follow orders in a pain clinic or any practice that does scheduled meds, (see the spelling again). u get a letter to find a new doctor.

and sorry i couldnt help u out papa-vere(sp?), i dont kno of any docs in chi but i have been keeping my eyes/ears open. but there closed now since u just tossed some shit on me. thanks , that really felt good man.

and if you show the pm that u sent to me. i dont remember you saying you trade them. but i do remember u thanking me for having a couple hundred extra in ur pocket each month from selling them. but hell it could just be me. was just looking out for the doc, put urself in the docs shoes, what would u do?

[Papa Verine]

no in fact heres what you exactly told me, and ill even quote it, " thanks alot man, now thanks to you, i will make alot more money each month selling my subs, thanks alot ." if u would have told me that u give them out i wouldnt have cared, but you told me that thanks to me you are going to make more money each month. and the fact that you just lied right to my own face in that post is funny. i have a good memory even tho i abused my brain, and that is with you wrote cause i remember. now only if i could spell. but you certianlly didnt tell me what you wrote there. but hey think what you wannt think. thats on u not me. enough people take advantage of doctors like i have cause they are caring and go and divert their scripts. but bluntly thanking me for increasing your yeild financially for me refering you to a doctor thats less expensive isn't the cool thing to do, no one thanks someone for a referal then says im just going to dump the 40 or so i dont take. not even in the real opiate game this does not happen. and if someone would refer you to their doc(someone taking pain killers ), and you told them what you told me, i bet they would do the exact same thing. but i give props for being honest . and how can u just lie like that lol. thats totally not what you said, and down in the bottom of ur heart or brain u kno that.

yea im willing to help anyone out. but if u were me , and seen that response u gave me, what would u have done.

and making note on that, my bupe doc is also a good friend of mine, I watch out for her, therefore i will not refer someone to her if its a risk to her liscense and general practice at hand.. it isn't worth it for her to help you and then not follow orders, if u dont follow orders in a pain clinic or any practice that does scheduled meds, (see the spelling again). u get a letter to find a new doctor.

and sorry i couldnt help u out papa-vere(sp?), i dont kno of any docs in chi but i have been keeping my eyes/ears open. but there closed now since u just tossed some shit on me. thanks , that really felt good man.

and if you show the pm that u sent to me. i dont remember you saying you trade them. but i do remember u thanking me for having a couple hundred extra in ur pocket each month from selling them. but hell it could just be me. was just looking out for the doc, put urself in the docs shoes, what would u do?

Just stop trying to push AA on everybody around here man. If we want it, we know where to get it. You're just pissing people off. Don't you understand that? Not to mention, you aren't even clean and sober! You take an opioid agonist every day. Read your BIG BOOK. The Chapter titled "Doctor, Alcoholic, Addict". "If I'm going to truly recover from this disease I must avoid any and all mood or mind altering substances".

I know the program. I just don't try to sell it to Opiophiles and you shouldn't either.

I'm sorry Mikells but you're way out of line 12 steppin' people here. WAY out of line. You do what works for you and unless somebody asks for your help, keep it to yourself.

[mikells43]

Just stop trying to push AA on everybody around here man. If we want it, we know where to get it. You're just pissing people off. Don't you understand that? Not to mention, you aren't even clean and sober! You take an opioid agonist every day. Read your BIG BOOK. The Chapter titled "Doctor, Alcoholic, Addict". "If I'm going to truly recover from this disease I must avoid any and all mood or mind altering substances".

I know the program. I just don't try to sell it to Opiophiles and you shouldn't either.

I'm sorry Mikells but you're way out of line 12 steppin' people here. WAY out of line. You do what works for you and unless somebody asks for your help, keep it to yourself.



i just told you to do what you used to do, i didn't 12 step anyone. lol. i think ur w/d is talking here, not u. but hey i hope u make it. i really do.

and as long as im living good, i dont give a shit what others think. im not doing what i used to do. i have 0 guilt and shame. and what others think, is on them. not me. i have my own things to think about. I take bupe as perscirbed, and the perscirbed dose, sometimes lower. I am not using it to get high, i am not using it to numb my feelings, i am on a matenence drug, i have asthma too, if i didn't use my "matenence meds" for that id be intubated. but as long as i take my scripts as perscirbed, im fine. bupe is not a mood or mind altering substance in my book. its a medical recovery aide, and in this day and age, ill use anything i can to battle this disease, cause it kills, easly. take care, get well soon!



Addict:
Slang for person with an addictive disorder. This stigmatizing term is demeaning because it labels a person by his/her illness. By making no distinction between the person and the disease, it denies the dignity and humanity of the individual. In addition, this label implies a permanency to the condition, leaving no room for a change in status.
Some “self-help” groups and addiction counselors feel the need to use the term to remind the patient that they have a problem. There is no evidence that such intentional humiliation is beneficial or that it outweighs the potential damage and increased difficulty in building back one’s self esteem.


Addiction:
A behavioral syndrome characterized by the repeated, compulsive seeking or use of a substance despite adverse social, psychological, and/or physical consequences, and a need for an increased amount of the substance, as time goes on, to achieve the same effect. Addiction is often (but not always) accompanied by physical dependence, a withdrawal syndrome, and tolerance.
The American Academy of Pain Medicine, the American Pain Society, and the American Society of Addiction Medicine recognize the following definitions and recommend their use: Addiction is a primary, chronic, neurobiologic disease, with genetic, psychosocial, and environmental factors influencing its development and manifestations. It is characterized by behaviors that include one or more of the following: impaired control over drug use, compulsive use, continued use despite harm, and craving.


dependence:
“dependence” by itself has little meaning in the field of addiction treatment. This is because currently the phrase “substance dependence” and “physical dependence” have very different meanings. Which “dependence” is someone referring to when the word is used alone in this context? Confusing the two could lead to a misunderstanding at best and a misdiagnosis at worse. There is some talk within the industry to bring back the word “addiction” to use in place of “substance dependence” in an effort to help with some of the confusion. For the time being we are stuck with two similar phrases with two very different meanings. Understanding the difference is essential.
see: physical dependence, substance dependence, craving, and addiction



just wanted to say also, i dont push shit on other people, cause it often makes them resentful, and that possible seed that might sew will not if recovery is pushed on them. i dont try to push it on anyone, if u think i do, then im sorry. i just watned to give you some words of encouragement, but u got resentful right form the get go, i should have known that, i kno how we think. i dont kno what all ur dealing with but i wish u the best, and im sorry if i came off that way, cause it wasn't intendend. if u look at it with less hostility then mabey it might not seem that way. thats what im getting at with reviewing my past posts. i ment nothing wrong, im rooting for you man. but think what you wanna think, cause what i say isn't going to change anything.

[SpecialGuy69]

Thats totally fucked up Mik- you RATTED opy out to the doc. You could have confronted opy directly and told him how you felt, you could have punched him in the face, you could have threatened to rat him out to the doc, theres a million better things you could have done besides snitch on him that all would have accomplished the same goal (preventing opy from selling subs from "your" doc). NOT COOL.

Maybe opy was saying he would have a few hundred extra dollars in his pocket because he would be SAVING MONEY AT THE DOC!!! Did you think about that? Anyways, doesn't matter now, whats done is done. I always thought you were harmless, trying to help out and point people in the right direction if they wanted the program. Now I'm seeing a different side and it really worries me. I really wondering who's next to get ratted out to their doctor by you.

You dont know the whole situation, either. What if he was broke and starving and needed that money to eat? Or if he needed to raise money for grandma's chemotherapy? Or if he needed a bunch of "rich stuff" to save the neighborhood from being leveled to build a golf course by the asshole kid's father (a la goonies).

Dont fuck around in other people's shit and DONT SNITCH. If someone snitched me for ANYTHING, I'd be on the fuckin warpath.

[chopstix]

bupe is not a mood or mind altering substance in my book

%100 bullshit and %100 denial. Factual evidence of this is your documented problem with constipation, classic side effects of opiate agonist dependency. How do you think bup would affect your mood after 72hrs without? Maybe you should try it and find out?

You are an addict and still at step 1 in your little cult, your denial is on the same scale as someone who thinks they can work a program and smoke weed, simply because it wasn't their DOC.

Please, wake the fuck up and spare us the AA BS because most of us know it, probably better than you, and we don't care to hear about it. You honestly come across like a broken record at times with your canned responses. Learn to think for yourself..

[Thanat0s]

mike, you are far more sick than the rest of us... at least we admit our addiction!

[GetinLow]

Most of us realized along time ago that Mikells was full of it and knew he was in deep denial and for a while he toned it down with his Bullshite but to me what Mikells did is no worse than a jailhouse snitch and has now crossed the line ! I personally dont trust the SNITCH and believe he would be better off on a Recovery board :p ! Please move on Mikells !

............. GetinLow

[Nate]

Thats totally fucked up Mik- you RATTED opy out to the doc. You could have confronted opy directly and told him how you felt, you could have punched him in the face, you could have threatened to rat him out to the doc, theres a million better things you could have done besides snitch on him that all would have accomplished the same goal (preventing opy from selling subs from "your" doc). NOT COOL.

Maybe opy was saying he would have a few hundred extra dollars in his pocket because he would be SAVING MONEY AT THE DOC!!! Did you think about that? Anyways, doesn't matter now, whats done is done. I always thought you were harmless, trying to help out and point people in the right direction if they wanted the program. Now I'm seeing a different side and it really worries me. I really wondering who's next to get ratted out to their doctor by you.

You dont know the whole situation, either. What if he was broke and starving and needed that money to eat? Or if he needed to raise money for grandma's chemotherapy? Or if he needed a bunch of "rich stuff" to save the neighborhood from being leveled to build a golf course by the asshole kid's father (a la goonies).

Dont fuck around in other people's shit and DONT SNITCH. If someone snitched me for ANYTHING, I'd be on the fuckin warpath.

What he said... especially the part about don't snitch...
cause that would make you a bitch...

[jopiated]

I am with everybody on this, you should not ever snitch on any body, ever. Especially when the person is doing something to help people. I am on done right now and wanna switch to subs but can't afford it, not everybody is blessed and I just wish I could find a cool friend that would look out for me sometimes. I have been trying so hard to find a way to switch that it is majorly affecting my treatment. As far as a possible high with bupe the best way I have heard about is to wait as long as possible and then just do 2 mg. I heard that when bupe is marketed in other forms it is at extremely low doses. Has anybody else heard anything like this?

[Opiyum]

" thanks alot man, now thanks to you, i will make alot more money each month selling my subs, thanks alot .


Yeah I won't deny saying that mike. Though it's more a figure of speech. I encourage anyone on any medication to do whatever they can to save money on their meds on a monthly basis. I never did make a dime and if I did it was only from dealers.
Even if I did make a few bucks here and there I totally stand by what I did.

[mikells43]

Yeah I won't deny saying that mike. Though it's more a figure of speech. I encourage anyone on any medication to do whatever they can to save money on their meds on a monthly basis. I never did make a dime and if I did it was only from dealers.
Even if I did make a few bucks here and there I totally stand by what I did.



thank you very much for being honest. for all you other guys, i was looking out for the wellbeing of my doctor ... case closed, i didn't rat out i simply advised. and you guys can say what you want. i dont care

and you even told me, if u would have went to that doc you would have made more money. you didn't make a dime, but u still traded the meds for shit to get high with. thats the same as diverting them cause there goign to get diverted anyways. i truely am sorry for that , but u can think what u want. there is a new doc open in the kittanning area that is reasonable priced. if u want the info its ava to be given.

[mikells43]

Thats totally fucked up Mik- you RATTED opy out to the doc. You could have confronted opy directly and told him how you felt, you could have punched him in the face, you could have threatened to rat him out to the doc, theres a million better things you could have done besides snitch on him that all would have accomplished the same goal (preventing opy from selling subs from "your" doc). NOT COOL.

Maybe opy was saying he would have a few hundred extra dollars in his pocket because he would be SAVING MONEY AT THE DOC!!! Did you think about that? Anyways, doesn't matter now, whats done is done. I always thought you were harmless, trying to help out and point people in the right direction if they wanted the program. Now I'm seeing a different side and it really worries me. I really wondering who's next to get ratted out to their doctor by you.

You dont know the whole situation, either. What if he was broke and starving and needed that money to eat? Or if he needed to raise money for grandma's chemotherapy? Or if he needed a bunch of "rich stuff" to save the neighborhood from being leveled to build a golf course by the asshole kid's father (a la goonies).

Dont fuck around in other people's shit and DONT SNITCH. If someone snitched me for ANYTHING, I'd be on the fuckin warpath.


and what if someone would have said that to u right after u refered them to the doc that u get ur buttload of scripts from? what would u have done? and if u would have read the pm he sent me you would have thought the same thing. i prayed about it and everythign before i made that call. i didn't watn to do it but him bragging that he would have tons of extra money in his pocket form selling them is just overboard. and thats what he ment, not saving money at the docs in any means. he said cause of me he would have alot of extra money and I just made him more money each month. now think about that and tell me what you would have done. im only protecting my doctor, my monthly supplier of bupe, and my friend. u dont have to overreact like im fucking reporting someone to the pigs.

I didnt snitch really , i just told my doc not to accept x person if they call and say they are from x. mabey he might go there today, i donno. so what i did wasn't snithching. i made her aware. and you would have did the same thing if someone you didn't kno pmed you on here and told you what they told me.

and he wasn't broke, he told me his life story and his job. he has a good job. so thats no justifacation, no other shit that the money went for, the money was being used to get high with and if not the money, the subs were being traded for real drugs to get high with. no other excuses. what was said. its done and over with.

[Opiyum]

What I was doing with my subs really doesn't make too much of a difference. They are subs after all. It's not as if you had a quack on your hands that you were trying to protect. In that case I would understand. When dealing with a doc prescribing good drugs it requires subtlety. With sub doctors it's not something to make a federal case out of.
The fact of the matter is you side with your Sub doctor over a fellow junkie and that says a lot. I was by no means bragging about money or anything of the sort.
I do have a good job but at the time I had non health insurance and was getting raped on the cost of the subs every month. So yes a lot of those were traded for my head but the people that I helped in the process far outweighs that.

There are quite a few people from opiophile that I know in real life that can attest to that.

What's done is done yes but I'm sorry man what you did still sits uneasy with me. Subs are very costly and they should not be. One friend just finished his first year clean last week because of the sub script I shared with him. He couldn't afford to go the doc and do it himself.
So I was the one who payed my monthly dues, who had to sometimes miss work to make my appointments and who had to sometimes drive a few hours from whatever hotel I was staying in to make it to the doctor. In my opinion I earned my monthly indulgence.

and making note on that, my bupe doc is also a good friend of mine, I watch out for her, therefore i will not refer someone to her if its a risk to her liscense and general practice at hand.. it isn't worth it for her to help you and then not follow orders, if u dont follow orders in a pain clinic or any practice that does scheduled meds, (see the spelling again). u get a letter to find a new doctor.

Whether all that was clear to you at the time still should have made no difference. Sub doctors are there to prescribe subs. They aren't watched by the feds in the same way that a pain management doctor is. You were on your high holier than thow horse at the time and still are. Because your clean??

I don't think so.

[mikells43]

What I was doing with my subs really doesn't make too much of a difference. They are subs after all. It's not as if you had a quack on your hands that you were trying to protect. In that case I would understand. When dealing with a doc prescribing good drugs it requires subtlety. With sub doctors it's not something to make a federal case out of.
The fact of the matter is you side with your Sub doctor over a fellow junkie and that says a lot. I was by no means bragging about money or anything of the sort.
I do have a good job but at the time I had non health insurance and was getting raped on the cost of the subs every month. So yes a lot of those were traded for my head but the people that I helped in the process far outweighs that.

There are quite a few people from opiophile that I know in real life that can attest to that.

What's done is done yes but I'm sorry man what you did still sits uneasy with me. Subs are very costly and they should not be. One friend just finished his first year clean last week because of the sub script I shared with him. He couldn't afford to go the doc and do it himself.
So I was the one who payed my monthly dues, who had to sometimes miss work to make my appointments and who had to sometimes drive a few hours from whatever hotel I was staying in to make it to the doctor. In my opinion I earned my monthly indulgence.

Whether all that was clear to you at the time still should have made no difference. Sub doctors are there to prescribe subs. They aren't watched by the feds in the same way that a pain management doctor is. You were on your high holier than thow horse at the time and still are. Because your clean??

I don't think so.


im not on any horse. if i am i would ride it to tahati. anyways i said i was sorry. and u did a good deed. i have did several good deeds too by helping people get bupe doctors. and thats all good. thats awsome you helped out that dude. i helped out someone a while ago too, and he kept taking advantage of my kindness. im not out to get anyone. and im truely sorrry for that. here is my amneds to u. and as far as a high horse. im humble. if i was not humble i wouldnt be able to live right. and yes sub docs are watched by the feds, i beg to differ with 'you on that one. they are watched for # of pts. my sub doc isn't just a sub doc , she sees other people too, like a normal practice. she just does bupe to help others. a good deed. and that was a good deed u did. it will come back to you someday in 2 folds. so theres my amends. i kno that does not fix anything but i took care of my side of the street. i acted in a irrational way upon impulse and ended up hurting someone. im truely sorry... and i kno u hate me and i would hate me too.

if u check out that article on bupe by the baltimore sun. u will see that up in the new england area they are busting people for selling bupe pills too, so its catching on and they are beginning to watch bupe like any other narcotic. and whatever you do to justify use is fine. i do protect my sub doc , cause shes a friend of mine.

[sexualhealing]

man i always thought of mike as a lil preachy, but this changes my opinion completely.

i dont care if its a doc or a fuckin cop, u dont fuckin SNITCH on your fellow opiophiles.....

just bc u take ur subs as perscribed doesnt make u better than a person who only needs half of what the doc said and then has extras to help out friends......in fact i think this act makes them a BETTER person than you. helping others in need and all.....


but its ok, we all know deep down that mike is using a more potent opiod then most other posters here, but its ok bc its legal for maintaining an addiction.....get a load of yourself kid, come on now, ur still taking drugs just as you were before the subs!

[mikells43]

man i always thought of mike as a lil preachy, but this changes my opinion completely.

i dont care if its a doc or a fuckin cop, u dont fuckin SNITCH on your fellow opiophiles.....

just bc u take ur subs as perscribed doesnt make u better than a person who only needs half of what the doc said and then has extras to help out friends......in fact i think this act makes them a BETTER person than you. helping others in need and all.....


but its ok, we all know deep down that mike is using a more potent opiod then most other posters here, but its ok bc its legal for maintaining an addiction.....get a load of yourself kid, come on now, ur still taking drugs just as you were before the subs!


http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q101/Digital_Dante/BeatingADeadHorse.jpg

[Opiyum]

Well that settles that. You didn't really hurt anyone so you have nothing to be sorry for.

I just don't like how 12 step programs can create very judgemental people. Often I've seen old friends look back on what they used to be in disgust and they treat those people that resemble what they used to be with such disdain. Compassion is something that those kinds of people often forget about.

This isn't always the case and some people do end up being very compassionate to addicts and even end up working in harm reduction.

Maybe you don't fit this bill 100% but I think that day you prejudged me and maybe I have done or did the same.

[Inspektahdek]

ok how about this thread? Anyone try the hypothesis yet?

[mikells43]

ok how about this thread? Anyone try the hypothesis yet?


Lol I have talked to people who have shot bupe, plugged bupe, put bupe put the nose, and took it normally. prehaps it has potentual but hasn't been discovered. no one knows till someone trys it.

[Papa Verine]

thank you very much for being honest. for all you other guys, i was looking out for the wellbeing of my doctor ... case closed, i didn't rat out i simply advised. and you guys can say what you want. i dont care

and you even told me, if u would have went to that doc you would have made more money. you didn't make a dime, but u still traded the meds for shit to get high with. thats the same as diverting them cause there goign to get diverted anyways. i truely am sorry for that , but u can think what u want. there is a new doc open in the kittanning area that is reasonable priced. if u want the info its ava to be given.

You can word it any way you and your higher power want to but you sound like an ignorant ass-hole. You "Simply advised" huh?

[Papa Verine]

Lol I have talked to people who have shot bupe, plugged bupe, put bupe put the nose, and took it normally. prehaps it has potentual but hasn't been discovered. no one knows till someone trys it.

Hey kid, what the fuck kind of Avatar is that anyway? Are you some girl with an antique Tricycle and a pet dinosaur??? And you know what has or has not been discovered yet too? Did you know there was a pentagon on the North pole of Saturn? It has already been discovered, you should know about it.

[SpecialGuy69]

Mikellz- my whole point is you could have easily gone to opy and said "I'm not comfortable with you selling the bupe you get from this doc. Please promise me you wont". And I assure you, that if opy gave you his word, he would have kept it.

OR

you could have just told him "sell one fuckin pill and I'll tell the doc!"

Either way, you still leave him with a chance to save some $ on his personal sub script, which we all know costs WAAY more than it should for at least the next few years. When I got subs (without insurance) I HAD TO SELL THEM just to pay for the fuckers!

[chopstix]

Hey kid, what the fuck kind of Avatar is that anyway? Are you some girl with an antique Tricycle and a pet dinosaur???

BWAAAHAAAHAAAA!!!

So many times I've wanted to say something about that avatar!! I mean, you can tell it's probably decent art, it actually looks kinda familiar but WTF avatar?? You into pink shorts and tricycles??

[Thanat0s]

isnt selling some subs to a person a good fucking deed? some people cant afford a sub doc, have to get em on the street... and NO ONE with an opi habit is taking subs for anything other than keeping WD away or kicking... its not like OPyum was 'diverting' them for any recreational reason. pray about that, make amends... so fucking indoctrinated, youve even got the cult's jargon in your bupe'ed up head...

had a long talk about you with my counselor today... sorry(to everyone else) to harp on this but man, this site just aint for you... come back when you actually know what youre consuming and its effect on your mood and body(the reason you dont consider it a mind altering substance is your TOLERANCE), ya fucking lowlife JUNKY!!! :D

we come to this site in part to get away from attitudes like yours, and now look, you got me (or wait, its my withdrawl, right?) calling you names sarcastically... i gotta deal with this anger... :D

i do deserve a high horse too, eh? or just to be high on ze horse...

(dont tell my doctor but i blasted through about 16mg of bupe today with a very dark, syrupy, .5g tar shot!!! better get back to my big book, eh?)

done even thinking about this, ill put you on ignore, but please, for the sake of others and this community, consider why youre even here... you could, em, 'help' more people on some other kind of forum... this isnt the place to be possessed of hubris, preaching a conformist philosophy, and treating us addicts like everyone else in the world does...

some of us like to get high, users dont snitch, were all in denial:rolleyes:, we have our OWN willpower, are PRO harm reduction, and we dont push our habits on others...
and its a good thing here...

the pot calls the kettle...

[Thanat0s]

...picked up some st johns wart today... dunno how it will go seeing as how i have that implant... ill try it with a sub maybe tonight if i cant sleep?

[deathboy]

Read the post - this isn't another case for CYP*** inhibition, this is about the opposite idea: inducing the enzymes to INCREASE metabolism in order to convert bup into NORbup, which has more of an agonistic mechanism than the former..

Roger that - time to see my p-doc about another ssri lol

[sexualhealing]

ill be grabbin some sjw as soon as i get a chance and will try this...

tried just about every other way to get a buzz of these orange fuckers, whats one more? :)

[Inspektahdek]

just let me know how it goes everyone, I'm intrigued

[LayinLow]

Hey kid, what the fuck kind of Avatar is that anyway? Are you some girl with an antique Tricycle and a pet dinosaur???


lmfao..that made my morning, thanks! But I do have a question. Has anyone tried the St Johns Wort w/ subs to see if any of that article was true?

[(inaudible screams)]

Hey kid, what the fuck kind of Avatar is that anyway? Are you some girl with an antique Tricycle and a pet dinosaur???
I believe it's by Bob Dob - a well known low brow artist. Check out his work - here is a good one.... Pill Head
http://www.bobdob.com/images/bob_dob_pill_head.jpg

[robojunkie]

OK, mikells, I have fucking had it with you and your superior attitude and you pedophile-looking avatar and you whole fucking holier than thou 12 stepping while claiming you aren't. And your fucking "lol" every sentence. But this takes the cake you fucking rat. You have just admitted to interfering with someone else's doctor patient relationship, and regardless of what your opinion is regarding his comments or giving up some pills to his buddies (free or at cost or whatever, its still better than leaving 'em sick) you still have no right to do this, even if you did give the number. Once he called it, you're out of the fucking equation. How the hell are you any different then the CP patient that looks down on all the other CP patients that don't take it "exactly as instructed by your physician", who finds out someone at his PM clinic gets extra and rats him out???

You are a hypocrit, and I am reporting this thread (to myself as a mod a-hole, I'm not a rat). And, your rhetorical about how else would I handle it, you don't, you forget about it cause he ain't causing you problems at all. If he was fuckin' with you IRL, you handle it like a fucking man, and do what you gotta do. You don't go crying poo-poo to the po-po that's for bitches.

It's time for you to man up, taper of the bupe, go to AA/NA and live the fucking program you espouse in not so many words, and live it the way its meant, as in drug free, not on maintenance. Just because its legal don't mean dick. All that matters is the chemical, the brain and the person, and how dose, experience and personality shape these. You and your precious law-based "appeal to authority" fallacy of logic are so patently obvious and bogus, even you must see it.

Man up, and move on, before you get moved on. Try one of the drug free boards, you may like it there, but then again you may not, as you won't have all of us active junkies for you to look down your nose at. BTW, congratulations, because that must take some world's record vertical leaps, to look down your nose at us.

Inspekta, sorry 'bout your thread gettin' derailed, I'll try and clean it up later, and make the rest of this shit into another thread in another forum. Its actually quite interesting and I imagine of interest to many here, until mikells fucked it up with his damn provocateuring.

[nick]

I've nothing to say to or about Mikell because,as my dear old Mum says,if you have nothing good to say about someone,it's better to say nothing.

However,I'd like to say Kudos to Opi,who seems to be dealing with this crap with real dignity.Way to go bro.

[Thanat0s]

Thank you Robo, for 'officially' stating what so many of us have been trying to convey in sometimes less eloquent syntax. truth is the guy needs help, wont find it here, and really, those meetings are prob a large part of his problem, allowing the false sense of 'cleanliness...' whatever happens here i think we all know his 'active addiction' will come back to bite him in the ass and all his hubris will be for naught...
just glad to know im not the only one who feels 'judged' by that character... hopefully hell take the hint and look elsewhere to spout his party rhetoric?

as the world turns...

[Nate]

Props to Robo for telling it as it is.

[tptptp]

Thats totally fucked up Mik- you RATTED opy out to the doc. You could have confronted opy directly and told him how you felt, you could have punched him in the face, you could have threatened to rat him out to the doc, theres a million better things you could have done besides snitch on him that all would have accomplished the same goal (preventing opy from selling subs from "your" doc). NOT COOL.

Maybe opy was saying he would have a few hundred extra dollars in his pocket because he would be SAVING MONEY AT THE DOC!!! Did you think about that? Anyways, doesn't matter now, whats done is done. I always thought you were harmless, trying to help out and point people in the right direction if they wanted the program. Now I'm seeing a different side and it really worries me. I really wondering who's next to get ratted out to their doctor by you.

You dont know the whole situation, either. What if he was broke and starving and needed that money to eat? Or if he needed to raise money for grandma's chemotherapy? Or if he needed a bunch of "rich stuff" to save the neighborhood from being leveled to build a golf course by the asshole kid's father (a la goonies).

Dont fuck around in other people's shit and DONT SNITCH. If someone snitched me for ANYTHING, I'd be on the fuckin warpath.

Remember before in the thread where I said "trust me" you guys haven't even seen some of the shit mikells said. Well some of you trusted me =p.

================================================== ====================

By the way if this was a legit pain doctor Mikell's actions would have been justified. No sub doctor is gonna get in trouble nor is Mikells own script in jeopardy because of this. Now he told a doc not to accept someone because they're a drug seeker. He crossed the line.

Been tired of his 12-stepping bullshit anyways but for the longest time we thought he was just trying to help and since there was only one of him we kinda let it slide. Then not too too long ago he said some messed up stuff via PM about pretty much the entire populus and some specific people who had done nothing to him and threw a temper tantrum because we didn't give him a medical mod status acting like a 12 yr old literally. We didn't give it to him because of his 12-stepping and him always stating his opinions on addiction as FACT when they are anything but. We very politely told him no and he threw a tantrum.

I wanted to ban him for that, but we try to stay fair and although he's always teetered the line and annoyed the hell out of me and I know plenty others we've always tried to be fair since although he does bring it up as often as he can he usually doesn't do so completely out of context of the conversation.

The fact that he admitted that he did this now just got him perma-banned been waiting for it anyways. All he does is 12-step talking about how he's sober cuz he's on bupe (quite a bit of it guarantee wayyy wayy more equivalency than when he had a dope habit!) He preaches his 12-step addiction beliefs as fact to everyone (highly debatable stuff about what is addiction etc.) and obviously acts like a jerk. This isn't a 12 step board.

Again, if this was a real pain doctor I wouldn't blame him but he's not gonna lose his script and his docs not gonna get in any trouble. It's not his job or right to mediate what people do using this board to do it. He didn't have to give this name out and what did he expect here anyways? Besides opiyum has talked about how he's sold or given a few away on the open board often before so it's no big surprise. EDIT - I DIDN'T MEAN HE USED THE BOARD TO DO SELL/GIVE AWAY JUST THAT HE TALKED ABOUT HOW HE HAD DONE THIS IN HIS PERSONAL LIFE.

Sorry Mikells but I even prayed about this before I made the call to ban your sorry ass ;o IP Banned!

$1,000 says Mikells self destructs without this board to make himself feel better. No AA/NA board wants him while he's on bup and he can't talk down to other bupe users and feel good about himself. Oh boy.
================================================== ====================

OPIYUM - If I were you you know what I would be doing? I heard someones selling their pills & hanging out at a forum where some people ABUSE opiates, O-M-G! Payback...

[Suboxstitute]

Whoa, so Mikell's banned. I too always tried to see his side of it but there was only one side.

Back to the OP's purpose of the thread: "From the vaults of "Ero-Suboxstitute-Wid"

Questin: Does St. John's Wort potentiate (sp?) or in any other way affect suboxone. I acquired some SJW - the "Sundown brand" stanardized extract St. John's Wort 300MG. 2 capsules, or 600mg, was the suggested dose.
It was more expensive than others on the shelf. Since > expense equals > quallity (in shoes & purses, at least) I went with it.

The label on the bottle also had (below the SJW 300mg Extract) the following words exactly, parentheses and all: (Hyperium perforatum) (aerial) and below that, (standardized to contain .3% Hypericin, 0.9% mg***) No idea what that means but maybe it is important to the OP. The *** reference went no where. I hate that.

.....and proceeded thusly:

One hour ago, I took 16mg of sub sublingually, a higher amount than my normal maint dose of 6-8mg. (By the way, for various bad reasons I have ben upping my sub dose for a few days now). So I may be a little more tolerant to a higher dose now. Sigh.

After I "melted" the sub, then I took the SJW, two capsules. Pretty much right away.

Now it is an hour later and I feel quite buzzed with some energy like I used to get from opiates. And difficulty focusing my eyes (double vision?) Took me FOREVER to write this post, where normally on sub I am... normal.

So it sems to do SOMETHING since I normally feel nothing from sub, not at any dose. I've been on sub since August 2007.

Now I feel like taking some benzos. I have not since it would screw up the experiment. I'll wait a while.

[Opiyum]

Besides opiyum has talked about how he's sold or given a few away on the open board often before so it's no big surprise.
For the record I've never come close to anything that resembles a trade or sale through this board. Any and all dealings I've ever done have been in the real world. Other than some decorations I have purchased off the internet. Anything I may have said in the past was of course just meant as a joke.

[bronyraur]

For the record I've never come close to anything that resembles a trade or sale through this board. Any and all dealings I've ever done have been in the real world. Other than some decorations I have purchased off the internet. Anything I may have said in the past was of course just meant as a joke.

Don't sweat it ya jagoff. We know you wouldn't hurt the House of Opiophile.










:D

[Inspektahdek]

OK, mikells, I have fucking had it with you and your superior attitude and you pedophile-looking avatar and you whole fucking holier than thou 12 stepping while claiming you aren't. And your fucking "lol" every sentence. But this takes the cake you fucking rat. You have just admitted to interfering with someone else's doctor patient relationship, and regardless of what your opinion is regarding his comments or giving up some pills to his buddies (free or at cost or whatever, its still better than leaving 'em sick) you still have no right to do this, even if you did give the number. Once he called it, you're out of the fucking equation. How the hell are you any different then the CP patient that looks down on all the other CP patients that don't take it "exactly as instructed by your physician", who finds out someone at his PM clinic gets extra and rats him out???

You are a hypocrit, and I am reporting this thread (to myself as a mod a-hole, I'm not a rat). And, your rhetorical about how else would I handle it, you don't, you forget about it cause he ain't causing you problems at all. If he was fuckin' with you IRL, you handle it like a fucking man, and do what you gotta do. You don't go crying poo-poo to the po-po that's for bitches.

It's time for you to man up, taper of the bupe, go to AA/NA and live the fucking program you espouse in not so many words, and live it the way its meant, as in drug free, not on maintenance. Just because its legal don't mean dick. All that matters is the chemical, the brain and the person, and how dose, experience and personality shape these. You and your precious law-based "appeal to authority" fallacy of logic are so patently obvious and bogus, even you must see it.

Man up, and move on, before you get moved on. Try one of the drug free boards, you may like it there, but then again you may not, as you won't have all of us active junkies for you to look down your nose at. BTW, congratulations, because that must take some world's record vertical leaps, to look down your nose at us.

Inspekta, sorry 'bout your thread gettin' derailed, I'll try and clean it up later, and make the rest of this shit into another thread in another forum. Its actually quite interesting and I imagine of interest to many here, until mikells fucked it up with his damn provocateuring.



That's quite alright robo, what's done is what had to be done no? I think it was a horrible thing that he did to opiyum and although I don't like to interfere with peoples battles it kind of interfered with my thread so fuck him, he's sort of "HIDDEN" Condescending to alot of us anyways and it's hard to notice unless you pay particular attention and I guess he deserved it. I wonder if I didn't start this thread if he still would have been banned in the future? oh well





Whoa, so Mikell's banned. I too always tried to see his side of it but there was only one side.

Back to the OP's purpose of the thread: "From the vaults of "Ero-Suboxstitute-Wid"

Questin: Does St. John's Wort potentiate (sp?) or in any other way affect suboxone. I acquired some SJW - the "Sundown brand" stanardized extract St. John's Wort 300MG. 2 capsules, or 600mg, was the suggested dose.
It was more expensive than others on the shelf. Since > expense equals > quallity (in shoes & purses, at least) I went with it.

The label on the bottle also had (below the SJW 300mg Extract) the following words exactly, parentheses and all: (Hyperium perforatum) (aerial) and below that, (standardized to contain .3% Hypericin, 0.9% mg***) No idea what that means but maybe it is important to the OP. The *** reference went no where. I hate that.

.....and proceeded thusly:

One hour ago, I took 16mg of sub sublingually, a higher amount than my normal maint dose of 6-8mg. (By the way, for various bad reasons I have ben upping my sub dose for a few days now). So I may be a little more tolerant to a higher dose now. Sigh.

After I "melted" the sub, then I took the SJW, two capsules. Pretty much right away.

Now it is an hour later and I feel quite buzzed with some energy like I used to get from opiates. And difficulty focusing my eyes (double vision?) Took me FOREVER to write this post, where normally on sub I am... normal.

So it sems to do SOMETHING since I normally feel nothing from sub, not at any dose. I've been on sub since August 2007.

Now I feel like taking some benzos. I have not since it would screw up the experiment. I'll wait a while.


That's great news! I would almost take bupe alot more if it was more like methadone which I like. Have you tried methadone before if so, how does it compare to this new combo? I'm very happy about this! I've lowered my bupe use to 4-8mgs a day when I'm on it so that was an accomplishment in itself. Have you tried this again and if so, can you describe it in more detail and how it compares to taking bupe originally? Thanks for the post btw! :D

[robojunkie]

Yup, its nice to come home, pop on the phile, and see that fucker's ggggoooonnneeeeeee!!! Probably over to some 12 step site, where his intro will state how he just pushed on through the bupe withdrawals (the agony, am I not your hero?), and after months of pain and misery, he's finally cleaner than clean, and because of this fact and the wd's, he's now in a position to "take inventories" on everyone on whatever (no drugs/alcohol) recovery board he joins. I can't wait to google his username (probably too much of an arrogant, yet stupid, dumbass to change it) and read the crap he'll be spewing forth over wherever about how some junkies are truly beyond redemption, blahblahblah.

Oh yeah opiyum, I think tp was saying only that you had talked about this on the open board, as in talked about the real life stuff, not traded over the open board. Just saying so you don't think any mods or admins think this is the case. This is the tralfamador of opiointernet land, nothing "real" happens here, and we all know that. It's back on earth where cold hard molecules are required.

[Thanat0s]

...wobowshjuhnkie, youwre, my HErWO!!! opioNOMO! :D
thats one member i wont miss...

back ON topic...
sorry inspeckt, still havent had the opportunity to try the combo yet, got all the goods sitting here waiting for my compulsive ass to put down the H long enough to give it a real go...

i PROMISE ill get there and report back my findings... thanks a pantload for a little speck of HOPE for my inevitable bupe future...

if this thread does nothing else it ris us of a 12step propagahndist, and that releases endorphins on its own.

much props, yo.

[Diluted]

We've lost track here --
DOES SJW actually intensify the effect of suboxone? So far two people have said yes and the rest bashing some poor guy because he's in NA/AA...

Let's get back tot eh subject 00

Lets' try some more SJW and Bupe and see if it works.. i'm next in line -- any other people tried it yet?

[scarlettt]

any other people tried it yet?


Not so far, but this thread def. peeked my curiousity. I would be willing to buy some St. John's Wort tomorrow and give it a whirl. I'll post my experience with it.

[Inspektahdek]

ill be trying it soon seeing I get more thumbs upp from other opiophile residents. Right now the fent is in supply so, yes. But soon the bupe combo will ensue if things chime in right :)

[GOLD N DIEMONDS]

THANK YOU TP (and other involved) FOR YOUR WISDOM AND FAIRNESS IN THE BANNING!

DILUTE- Nobody was bashing some poor guy because he's in NA/AA... It was because he is an arrogant assholes who didn't live up to at least half of the twelve traditions of AA/NA. Don't make him out to be some victim here,

His avatar creeped my out too, very strange

[tptptp]

For the record I've never come close to anything that resembles a trade or sale through this board. Any and all dealings I've ever done have been in the real world. Other than some decorations I have purchased off the internet. Anything I may have said in the past was of course just meant as a joke.

Oh yeah, I definitely worded that poorly....I didn't mean through the board. I edited it.

[stvip]

Norbuprenophine is a more potent agonist in most areas, and has a higher affinity in most areas. Though it is allegedly not good at crossing the BBB

Actually, the data provided in the first paragraph directly contradict this claim (common mistake - lower Ki values mean higher affinity; the only possibly advantageous exception is full DOR agonism compared to the partial agonism of BUP). This is corroborated by the in vivo results provided. And while norbuprenorphine is less efficacious when administered i.c.v (bypassing the BBB), it barely passes the BBB otherwise anyhow (obviously a such a nor- metabolite, losing its CH2 mini-tail, would be less lipophilic). Moreover, norbuprenorphine is several times more effective at causing respiratory depression (by a local effect on the lungs), so it is not a desirable product anyhow.

Positive results from bio-assays aren't necessarily due to placebo, though. Hypericum is psychoactive, after all (hint: use extracts standardized to hyperforin in addition to or in lieu of hypericin).

[trainwrecker]

I took 300mg about and hour after I took my normal 1-2mg of bupe... nadda

[Opiyum]

^^^It might be worth trying to increase the sub dose when you take the SJW. That's what I'm going to do.

[Inspektahdek]

yea I don't think sticking to a mainatance dose, especially as low as 1-2mg (congrats for the efforts that got u there in the first place) but anyhow, a little analogy for everyone. St. John Wort, a prophet, who needs a large faith following of people (higher doses of bupe) to cross the mystic brain barrier! Once he can lead with sufficient following, the act can be made. And buped can be enjoyed by all!

Either that or my eyes are now pinned sideways, flip a coin

Just picked up 60 2mg alrazolam as well, if this doesn't go over well. I tried bupe and tramadol only having it work once and ther other times making me feel spacy and very awkward. And one mini-nod I received on 32mg of bupe which was my inudction dose to bupe plus several 1mg clonazepam at 3am in the morning I was nodding. Anyone else want to chime in with discoveries?

[chopstix]

Seems to me that not many people are very good test candidates due to the likelyhood that if the have sub, they're taking it as intended so they're full of an antagonist...

Also, for me, benzos potentiate bup regardless - if I have it in my system and I take a benzo, I feel at least a little opiated.. I think you're gonna have to find someone who's not using sub "as intended" at all..

[scarlettt]

I took it and increased my Sub. dose from 1 mg to 4 mg and here is my report:

I've yawned a few times. That's about it. :D


Maybe as someone mentioned, this would be better for the person that isn't taking it all the time as prescribed? Too bad though, I was hoping. Ah well. Maybe someone will come along with some tips to make it work better...

[Thanat0s]

Seems to me that not many people are very good test candidates due to the likelyhood that if the have sub, they're taking it as intended so they're full of an antagonist...

Also, for me, benzos potentiate bup regardless - if I have it in my system and I take a benzo, I feel at least a little opiated.. I think you're gonna have to find someone who's not using sub "as intended" at all..

is there a way to take sub so youre not full of antagonist?

[Inspektahdek]

I took it and increased my Sub. dose from 1 mg to 4 mg and here is my report:

I've yawned a few times. That's about it. :D


Maybe as someone mentioned, this would be better for the person that isn't taking it all the time as prescribed? Too bad though, I was hoping. Ah well. Maybe someone will come along with some tips to make it work better...


great this is progress and another view which is always good. Just like in chemistry, you test a hypothesis more than once or from more people who make new findings, etc.

Who's trying thats not a maintenance dose individual who prior to trying the experiment still felt nothing but bupe?

[chopstix]

is there a way to take sub so youre not full of antagonist?

From my very limited understanding, the answer is basically no, as even though when taken orally, first pass metabolism still allows a little bit by, creating an antagonistic effect for the norbup metabolite which isn't really even a full on opiod agonist and also doesn't really want to cross the B/B barrier anyway..

The general idea of this tech is limiting the amount of bup and maximizing the amount of norbup in the bloodstream (and hoping that some seeps into the brain). Bup does antagonize Norbup so this experiment does need to be tried by an opioid tolerant person without bup in their system.. And don't forget, bup ROCKS opiate naive people, you have to be really careful about that..

[Suboxstitute]

And don't forget, bup ROCKS opiate naive people, you have to be really careful about that



Can't it do more than just ROCK them? Like harm them? Or would they just pass out??? I've read you can't OD since anythin over 32mg just sort of "sits there" it's a ceiling dose. But who knows?

But there are lots of people who dabble in sub - between their DOC - what about that population trying it?

Like, if I gave an 8mg sub to my husband I think he would pass out, puke and shit not necessarily in that order since he is completely opiate naive. In fact, he is just plain naive.

[Suboxstitute]

Well, OK maybe I am weird, but I tried it again today. I increased my dose beyond maint (6-8mg) to 12mg, 1.5 tabs. I took 600 mg of SJW after I took the sub.

For about 3-4 hours, I had an extra boost of energy - same deal (not as good as, but something like an opiate energy buzz)....... like I organized a bunch of files, cleaned our CD collection, re-wrote a bunch of work stuff I needed to do for a client. Sent a bunch of emails (god I hope they made sense; it was business).

It was not my normal energy. That I can say for sure.

Then because I've been on this weird boredom thing with bupe (long story, but it has to stop if I'm going to stay on the path of maint and then getting off completely this year) I took another "higher than normal" dose this afternoon, but this time with 4mg clonazepam. (Normal dose for me with this benzo, for four years, is 1.5 - 2.0 mg). That got me a little buzzed, but not the energy.

Hubby came home from being gone and said I looked high (again). NOT THIS MORNING with the SJW - just from the benzos.

Happened the other night and my explanations are wearing thin. Plus I was in a car accident yesterday (not my fault, but the car I love has a whole smashed in front end - woman pulled RIGHT in front of me and I hit her no serious injuries but I feel all banged up). So I was all upset about that, and explained the extra k-pins that way.

So I think tomorrow, I'm back to my normal sub dose but I'll still take the SJW. The bottle says to say 600mg so I guess that is what I'll do. It can't hurt at that dose.

[SpecialGuy69]

2 things-

First off, try taking the SJW FIRST!!! You need the chems from the SJW to already be in your body when you take the bupe. So taking sub first then SJW wouldn't work anyways.

Unfortunately, I think your beating a dead horse here, because like stvp and chopstix said, your dealing with not only finding a way to make a partial ag/antag into a full agonist, but the full agonist you create has to be strong enough to blast through a buprenorphine blocade effect, too.

I have a feeling this problem will be solved 1 of 2 ways-
-by what your trying- finding a way to create a more active metabolite in vivo
-by chemistry- finding a way to cleave off the n-methyl(?) chain that gives bupe its antagonistic effects. Done correctly, this would yield a bentley compound type opiate (etorphine analog) type of thing. Thats why temegesic/buprenorphine is effective in .2mg doses- cause its etorphine's retarded second cousin.

About Mikellz - well it had to be done. we cant allow someone to rat out a member to their doc and not ban them. He HAD to go after that one. Even if he was a valued member and not a 12-stepper. Remember greenfox? A lot of people liked him, and he's gone for good, too.

[chopstix]

Can't it do more than just ROCK them? Like harm them? Or would they just pass out??? I've read you can't OD since anythin over 32mg just sort of "sits there" it's a ceiling dose. But who knows?

But there are lots of people who dabble in sub - between their DOC - what about that population trying it?

Like, if I gave an 8mg sub to my husband I think he would pass out, puke and shit not necessarily in that order since he is completely opiate naive. In fact, he is just plain naive.

I don't know if an "opiate-naive" person can od on bup alone, I do know it can, and does happen in combo with other drugs - especially benzos; and the REAL problem is that it's binding affinity is so high, that it's really difficult if not impossible to treat/reverse a bup od with standard antagonists like Narcan. Bup OD == bad news..

People who dabble but aren't loaded up like those on maintenance are the best candidates, but as this tech stands, I'm not optimistic; I don't expect to see much from this.. But ya never know, weren't people having some success with quinine or something to help loperamide across the BBB? I know fuck-all about chemistry..

[stvip]

Augh.
Is this thing on?

You might as well speculate about the exciting new ways you could methylate morphine into codeine.

[chopstix]

Is this thing on?


No, try pushing the button again.

Edit: Hahah, I just noticed that this thread has 5 stars - Izzat 'cause Mikey got the boot?? I gotta say, along with Robo and between all of the lols, u this u that, shitty grammar, spelling and constant abbreviations, nevermind the ever present AA implications - I ain't gonna miss that guy, lol..

[robojunkie]

No, try pushing the button again.

Edit: Hahah, I just noticed that this thread has 5 stars - Izzat 'cause Mikey got the boot?? I gotta say, along with Robo and between all of the lols, u this u that, shitty grammar, spelling and constant abbreviations, nevermind the ever present AA implications - I ain't gonna miss that guy, lol..

Yeah, the avatar and the green cuddly cutesy dinosaur combined with the ubiquitous fucking "lol"s and "u"s and all the other eleventeen year old talk just screems out "SHORT EYES fucking diddler" about as loud as one can without claiming to be some fucking degenerate NAMBLA (if you haven't heard of these assholes, they're like some fucking activist group for child molesters) member on his sig. Creepy fucking guy, so easily brainwashed...

Proves the old saying, "...with the zeal of the neophyte" or however it goes.

[TOOL]

I have been reading this thread from the begining, but at the time couldn't post yet... I was on Subs for about 3 months last winter when I tried to kick pain pills, but then I came to my senses and went back to pain pills. Anyway at the time I was taking SJW for depression and all from coming off the pills. I had prolly been on it a month before I started taking subs..... I was always getting a decent euphoric buzz and a good nod off of the Subs..... shit I didn't know you weren't suposed to??? I continued to take it all together for the entire time I was on subs and always had some enjoyment with them regulary. So I think this is true considering I did it from a while and never heard of this until now I would assume there was no placebo effect.

[zenpunk]

Just read this thread...mainly to see how mikells became opionomo. There are alot people in NA who get on their high horse bullshit. Its funny cause I got in a big fight with this woman (and got my ass verbally kicked by the moderator at the meeting for doing it) who's been on massive amounts of bupe for a year and convinced that she is cleaner than clean, meanwhile she's fidgeting and giggling and her eyes are pinpoints. Clean or not, I get pissed when people buy into their own bullshit. Please you guys gently nudge me in the right direction if I ever get 12-steppy like that, using opiates helped me through some difficult times in my life....if I could be a chipper I sure would be.

[Opiyum]

When I took St. John's Wort 1.5 hours after taking Suboxone. 45 minutes later I began to enter a manic state. I myself always become manic on opiates. My friend on the other hand becomes quite sedated, and became this way when combining the same two drugs as I
This part has me a bit confused. Wouldn't you want to take the SJW 30-45 minutes before taking the suboxone?

Someone else mentioned this in the thread and I would agree but when I went back (now that I have the SJW in my possesion) to check on what these guys did exactly I was surprised to read what I quoted above.

I'm going to try this out tonight with one or two 300mg tabs and I probably will take an entire 8mg sub. I will take the sub 45 minutes after the SJW as I think that makes much more sense.

[resorcinol]

Just read this thread...mainly to see how mikells became opionomo. There are alot people in NA who get on their high horse bullshit. Its funny cause I got in a big fight with this woman (and got my ass verbally kicked by the moderator at the meeting for doing it) who's been on massive amounts of bupe for a year and convinced that she is cleaner than clean, meanwhile she's fidgeting and giggling and her eyes are pinpoints. Clean or not, I get pissed when people buy into their own bullshit. Please you guys gently nudge me in the right direction if I ever get 12-steppy like that, using opiates helped me through some difficult times in my life....if I could be a chipper I sure would be.

It's hilarious how he doesn't consider bupe a mood altering drug. It's doesn't seem very mood altering for him because he's STRUNG OUT. Heroin doesn't seem all that mood altering when you're strung out either... you realize it when you run out. He's an imbecile.

[robojunkie]

This is in response to the question way up top about "removing the antagonist" from bupe. Now, whether or not you are referring to the naloxone, or as I suspect, the partial antagonistic character of bupe itself the answer is no. Chemically speaking it would be quite easy for me to separate out the naloxone from the buprenorphine, and end up with pure powdered naloxone and pure powdered buprenorphine. However, whatever antagonistic qualities are present in bupe are there as a result of bupe's "mixed partial agonist/antagonist" character. Remember what they say about bupe OD's in the opiate naive? Naloxone isn't strong enough to displace, as AO says (I paraphrase) "etorphine's bastard step brother" (bupe) from the MOR's. If its not strong enough (as in binding affinity) to do this in an OD, why would the miniscule amount present matter in the least, whether subbed or IV'd? It wouldn't and doesn't.

As I said, the antagonist property is part and parcel of buprenorphine's pharmacology. There is no way to ever "remove" this short of chemically changing the molecule, and then its a moot point because it obviously wouldn't be buprenorphine anymore. I don't recall the numbers exactly but I recall hearing that bupe's IC50 or pKi is something like in the 1,000's of times more efficient at binding than morphine or some other opiate agonist or antagonist. This makes sense with that 7-t-butyl hydroxymethyl side chain, which fits well with an "open" part of the MOR not touched by morphine and most other non-Bentley compounds, though I wonder about the fentanyls with that extra nitrogen pushing the piperidine moiety "away" by that much distance, ie forcing it, and possibly the phenyl part of the phenethyl system into this area. This part of the receptor is purely a binding subsite, and has nothing to do with activation, as it is not needed to activate the receptor, only to provide an additionan binding site, giving these compounds that huge increase in potency.

Anyway, there I go again rambling away...main point, unless you know chem and have the resources to "hack" the bupe molecule, you cannot by definition remove the "antagonist". Sorry.

Edit: Just a clarification, none of the above is meant as speculation on the nor-methyl bupe, as I don't know enough about that specific metabolite, other than to say that usually N-demethylated (secondary) phenanthrene opiates (ie ones derived from morphine, codeine or thebaine with that basic structural "nucleus") are much weaker than the N-methylated version, which is nearly always a pure agonist as long as the rest of the molecule isn't heavily fucked with. As far as the BBB thing, I don't know much on it, I've heard it mentioned it doesn't cross, but this shouldn't necessarily be a property of secondary amines/alkaloids, after all methamphetamine (a secondary amine) as well as amphetamine (a primary amine) both cross the BBB quite effectively. Off hand with all those oily sites on the bupe molecule I'm kind of surprised that simply N-demethylating it would lead to a change in its ability to pass through this membrane. Who knows, maybe I'll look it up sometime...

[Inspektahdek]

ok I bought and took the SJW, same one stated on the first post I made. Took that and I just snorted 4mg bupe, about to put a 8-12 more under the tongue and see what happens. Should I try taking the SJW afterwards as well?

[TOOL]

I was taking SJW for almost a month before I started bupe and as stated above I think I had good effects and I continued it use afterward as well

[Inspektahdek]

I was taking SJW for almost a month before I started bupe and as stated above I think I had good effects and I continued it use afterward as well




how much were you taking? Also I took 2 300mg 0.3 hyperecin like I stated in OP, snorted 4mg. 10-20 minutes later I just dissolved 12mg under my tongue? subox or anyone else who has tried this, do u think I should take a dose afterwards? I'm hearing mixed opinions.



btw I love TOOL and I have alot of Alex Grey's (tool artist) Artwork personally autographed from his website. I particularly like the new one that opiyum is placed on his avatar


ah TOOL, the only band to ever name an album "OPIATE"

[TOOL]

how much were you taking? Also I took 2 300mg 0.3 hyperecin like I stated in OP, snorted 4mg. 10-20 minutes later I just dissolved 12mg under my tongue? subox or anyone else who has tried this, do u think I should take a dose afterwards? I'm hearing mixed opinions.



btw I love TOOL and I have alot of Alex Grey's (tool artist) Artwork personally autographed from his website. I particularly like the new one that opiyum is placed on his avatar


ah TOOL, the only band to ever name an album "OPIATE"


Yes I was taking 16mg a day of bupe and like I said I was taking SJW with it completely by acciedent, as suggested by a friend to help depression I was taking 600mg a day. If not mistaken I took in the morning and eve. I think it gave decent effects but I have never had bupe any other way. But I did get a buzz from bupe to include mild euphoria and deffinately nods.

I have some of Alex Grey's work as well I just got the autographed Vicarious DVD .... it's awesome, yes Tool has so many wonderful songs about opiates and lots of great topics. Also H. the line in my Sig.... great tune

Hope this helps, if not feel free to ask more questions glad to help

[TOOL]

Yes I was taking 16mg a day of bupe and like I said I was taking SJW with it completely by acciedent, as suggested by a friend to help depression I was taking 600mg a day. If not mistaken I took in the morning and eve. I think it gave decent effects but I have never had bupe any other way. But I did get a buzz from bupe to include mild euphoria and deffinately nods.

I have some of Alex Grey's work as well I just got the autographed Vicarious DVD .... it's awesome, yes Tool has so many wonderful songs about opiates and lots of great topics.

Hope this helps, if not feel free to ask more questions glad to help

Also planning a trip to Chapel of Sacred Mirriors

[Inspektahdek]

Also planning a trip to Chapel of Sacred Mirriors



yes I would like to do that as well, going to be costly but very well worth it. Like my new avatar? It's from one of his new collections, I think it goes for $20K USD

I took the SJW snorted 4mg melted the other one and a half which would be 16, were you taking SJW before and after the bupe morning and evening or were you taking the bupe morning and then evening? Also did u mix any benzos with it?



also nice quote in your sig, that song has brought tears to my eyes, I've taken MDMA and I've seen TOOL 3 times and I either took MDMA or LSD each time if not together and tears ran down my eyes when they play "H" and alot of other songs, I get chills alot from their music, no other artist, NO OTHER ARTIST has done that to me EVER. :)

[TOOL]

yes I would like to do that as well, going to be costly but very well worth it. Like my new avatar? It's from one of his new collections, I think it goes for $20K USD

I took the SJW snorted 4mg melted the other one and a half which would be 16, were you taking SJW before and after the bupe morning and evening or were you taking the bupe morning and then evening? Also did u mix any benzos with it?


No Benzo's.... I was taking bupe BID 8 mg 2x once in the morning and the the eve. I had probably been taking SJW for several weeks before I started Bupe so try it this way for several days... or atleast continue to take the SJW and see if effects stregthen as you continue to increase over days weeks ... that part I am not sure of because I was already taking it of course. I love the Avatar.. his art is just awesome, yeah a trip to COSM would be worth it I have a lot of TOOL's t shirts with the Net of Being on them and several others, good luck man let me know how it goes.

And I know what you mean I see them everytime they hit B-More or DC they are very spiritual I have had a lot of great memories a TOOL show it opened my eyes to soo much.... its almost a religous awakening

[Inspektahdek]

I'm starting to feel a little something, I'm not sure if I dosed correctly. What doses of SJW were you taking btw? I took mine before the bupe but not much sooner and the OPT says to take 1.5 hours afterwards do you think it would hurt to take more later on say 30 min or so from now?

Also, I just moved to Forscheim, DE. I'm actually going to move to my Dad's place for a bit over nord deutscheland in a few months so I can get my college going again and my new flat I get soon after that I plan on decorating the WHOLE ENTIRE flat with alex grey artwork. I actually tripped on LSD with me and my friend Schöellhorn and drew with permanent marker alex grey esque artwork all over the walls and it's still there to this day. The place itself looks like a 1960-1970 trip house, sort of woodstock stuff. I have pictures if interested. Totally psyschedelically induced. :D

[TOOL]

I'm starting to feel a little something, I'm not sure if I dosed correctly. What doses of SJW were you taking btw? I took mine before the bupe but not much sooner and the OPT says to take 1.5 hours afterwards do you think it would hurt to take more later on say 30 min or so from now?

Also, I just moved to Forscheim, DE. I'm actually going to move to my Dad's place for a bit over nord deutscheland in a few months so I can get my college going again and my new flat I get soon after that I plan on decorating the WHOLE ENTIRE flat with alex grey artwork. I actually tripped on LSD with me and my friend Schöellhorn and drew with permanent marker alex grey esque artwork all over the walls and it's still there to this day. The place itself looks like a 1960-1970 trip house, sort of woodstock stuff. I have pictures if interested. Totally psyschedelically induced. :D


I would take it again in an Hour or so, I was taking 600mgs a day if I am not mistaken, the only thing I noticed is taking large doses sometimes induced insomnia, but that already a big problem for me any way. I would love to see the artwork I don't think I have PM priv. yet but as soon as I do I will send you my email add. I love art, it's a big part of my life it really helped me through a rough period in my life (jail).... I used to trip a lot too and just stare at posters in the blacklight for hours.... good times. I have a lot of good pics from the last Tool show I was at on the 10,000 Days tour you would like too ... lots of lasers and shit... totally mind blowing, nice to meet you friend!!!

[Inspektahdek]

well here's some of them, very alex grey esque- this was about 4-5 years ago mind you

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m200/Inspektahdek/art7.jpg


http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m200/Inspektahdek/art6.jpg



http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m200/Inspektahdek/wall1.jpg

[Inspektahdek]

and a rather large MONTAGE of most of it: ahem::::


hope you like :D

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m200/Inspektahdek/montage.jpg

[Inspektahdek]

I would take it again in an Hour or so, I was taking 600mgs a day if I am not mistaken, the only thing I noticed is taking large doses sometimes induced insomnia, but that already a big problem for me any way. I would love to see the artwork I don't think I have PM priv. yet but as soon as I do I will send you my email add. I love art, it's a big part of my life it really helped me through a rough period in my life (jail).... I used to trip a lot too and just stare at posters in the blacklight for hours.... good times. I have a lot of good pics from the last Tool show I was at on the 10,000 Days tour you would like too ... lots of lasers and shit... totally mind blowing, nice to meet you friend!!!


I flew all the way from Germany to Coachella, California to see the first! 10,000 days show! I'm that big of a fan, really. And my friend paid for my ticket as well. It was outside and many people were under the influence and MJK called everyone a hippie. :D


Previously I saw 3 of their lateralus and opiate shows

Third-eye is one of my faves being almost 15 minutes long and I've seen them perform that twice, once as an encore, absolutely orgasmic, no drugs are needed for a tool show although I indulged, the music is a high in itself, no?

[TOOL]

Good Work....Awesome man I love it totally awesome, the one with the person in it really lets you see the size of them ... they are pretty fricken big, but very ceative man.... I gotta scale down the Tool pics the size is to large to get them to upload but I will get them over to you, let me know how things go with the Bupe and SJW... let me know if you make it State side for an Alex Grey show, he just had one good show for the release of the Vicarious DVD I am pissed I missed it. But atleast I got the DVD signed so thats better than nothing.

[TOOL]

I flew all the way from Germany to Coachella, California to see the first! 10,000 days show! I'm that big of a fan, really. And my friend paid for my ticket as well. It was outside and many people were under the influence and MJK called everyone a hippie. :D


Previously I saw 3 of their lateralus and opiate shows

Third-eye is one of my faves being almost 15 minutes long and I've seen them perform that twice, once as an encore, absolutely orgasmic, no drugs are needed for a tool show although I indulged, the music is a high in itself, no?

Ohh absolutely the music is a high..... though every show I have seen under the influence of opiates.... I like a lot of the old and new stuff I can't really pick one fav.... I love lateralus, Right in Two is awsome, Jambi... Anemia, H. , god there is so many Opiate.. Stinkfist, Eulogy(that is if you can tolerate jesus being called a martyr) man I think all of it has something to open your eyes and teach you something.

[Inspektahdek]

Opiate and Lateralus, and Aenima are my faves. 10,000 days was alright, I didn't like it as much as the previous ones, I was a little let down but I enjoyed it nonetheless



I feel a little something from the SJW, not much, I've taken 4mg insuff, 12 sublingual and the 600mg SJW prior to all of that minutes prior actually. And now I took one more SJW. I'm hoping for a good buzz, I feel a subtle difference, and I still have opiate craving. I was supposed to get more fentanyl today but my doctor fucked me because the pharmacist was upset that I was scripted them 48hrs at a time instead of 72 hours so they called my doctor and yelled at her and now I'm fucked because they retracted all my 48 hour use back to 72 and backlogged all the fent I've been scripted so I'm out of fent and they will not give me more until 21 FEB! And told me stick with you breakthrough meds for now and sorry nothing I can do the box says 72 even though I changed it.

I also said yes the box also says NOT FOR POST-OPERATIVE USE! And she said well now you have to wait, and now I also have a huge rash on my right arm where my last fent patch was. I got up in a good mood today thinking I was going to get my other box of fent to be let down. So is the reason I opted to get the SJW and it's a little different but I'm hoping for a stronger buzz.

How long after the subs did you feel good? And describe if u dont mind how it made u feel because previously subs did nothing for me besides not make me sick.

[TOOL]

I felt what I would call a mild Morph type buzz it was more sedating than euphoric, but I would get that nice feeling when the tension in your body just kinda lets go... and then I would catch a couple good nods.... again I thought at the time it was normal, I never took the stuff and not get a buzz, I didn't know that no one was getting off on it until I heard everyone here bitching how it sucks except to keep you well.

I also think taking SJW on a regular basis may have helped with the effects maybe it being in your system awhile has something to do with it????

That really sucks about the Fent thing man I feel for ya, I can't stand being short on my meds it's a very uncomfortable feeling. Hope you get them soon. I hate when everyone sticks their nose in your biz, but hey I am gonna be screwed if my wife finds out I am fucking with spikes again.... but what better way to use an Opiate that with a TOOL :)

[Inspektahdek]

slight increase, nothing more with my experiment, yet I did it a bit differently from OP. Perhaps I'll try tomorrow differently. I know it did something, albeit miniscule. We'll see; any other takers want to share?

[kil092286]

Hey guys just thought I would post and let you know I'm a guinea pig on this test.. just bought a bottle of stj. I am currently on 8mgs of suboxone a day (take it in the morning). It keeps me well but it don't last for shit anymore, I wake up feeling like crap every morning and I have to wait 30 minutes to an hour to feel good after I melt my sub. Ok back to the subject I just took 8mgs more of sub with 2 stj pills (will have to look at the bottle tommorow to tell you the dosage size. Its 2am, I will post more tommorow. Hope for good results - Kil

[Inspektahdek]

let us know how it goes, I noticed a small difference but maybe I didn't get the timing right. There was definitely something, just not like stated in my OP. I'll have to experiment more. Please let us know how it worked for you.

Thanks for your cooperation

[TOOL]

Let me know how things progress I think using the SJW for a exteneded period may have an effect on this but thats my .02

[Inspektahdek]

update: I did the method this morning with 16mg sub and I was in a generally real good mood and my pupils were pinpoint as hell, my boss even commented on how pinpoint they were. There wasn't really any kind of buzz, maybe slightly and this is my first time using bupe in a while. It did something for sure, just not what I expected. I'll try again tonight and tomorrow because I'm not wasting this SJW.



anyone else?

[pappapoppy]

I grow St Johns Wort and have thought for years that it is a mood enhancer and opiate booster. I have never taken it with suboxone but it suppliments my pods nicely. It is best to take fresh, however.

[Inspektahdek]

im trying again with 16mg sub and 2 capsules of SJW right afterwards. I've been taking the SJW two doses yesterday and once early this morning without taking any sub and to have it in my system like tool said. Now I'm going to try to take the sub and then dose SJW right afterwards and see what happens. anybody else out there experimenting and would like to share?

[Inspektahdek]

Hey kid, what the fuck kind of Avatar is that anyway? Are you some girl with an antique Tricycle and a pet dinosaur??? And you know what has or has not been discovered yet too? Did you know there was a pentagon on the North pole of Saturn? It has already been discovered, you should know about it.


I just remembered how hilarious this post is

[Saint]

You make some nice work inspector. Is that you in the pic? Or is that herr Schöellhorn? Either way one goodlooking guy. But ofcourse I should have focused on the art,
which I did. Some.

Anyway, still curious about more sub-SJW experiments.

[born2lose]

Also planning a trip to Chapel of Sacred Mirriors

pretty tight spot..i went to a party there a few months back...

[Suboxstitute]

I just remembered how hilarious this post is

That was about Mikells... even though he is banned can he still read the board?
It was bad how he ratted out the guy to his doc.... and I agree that his avatar was
very....strange... and he was always pushing bupe....

but just a question - can he read what's been said about him on various posts?


....softie....

[Duckfeet]

I've been gone a couple of days. I just noticed Mikell was Opionomo....yeah, he can still read the stuff...he just can't log on...Bummer. He was always on the wrong side of everything, and could be a real irritant...but he was always willing to help somebody, and I always thought it was good to have people who aggravated me on here...maybe he did something I don't know about, after I retired as admin...Mods and admins get in a bad position with this stuff, since they don't want to talk bad about somebody after they're gone, so sometimes their side of the issue doesn't get told....maybe somebody could pm me when they get bored, so I can know why he's gone...I'm kind of sorry to hear it...but I don't want to aggravate the admins and mods...I know what it's like...I never could do this kind of shit, worth a damn, anyway...


That was about Mikells... even though he is banned can he still read the board?
It was bad how he ratted out the guy to his doc.... and I agree that his avatar was
very....strange... and he was always pushing bupe....

but just a question - can he read what's been said about him on various posts?


....softie....

[SpecialGuy69]

duck- just read this thread top to bottom. Its pretty clear why tp booted his ass. He snitched on an opiophile (to a sub doc, not the cops)

[Inspektahdek]

Insuffulated 8mg this morning followed by 2 capsules SJW 300mg and the hypercin as stated in OP. Definite buzz proceeded and is still going; albeit kleine, it's still moderate to a small morph like TOOL has stated. This theory and experiment definitely works, I'm confirming this right at this moment. And definite change in pupil size as well.

[Duckfeet]

Yep: I got it now, I agree. I tend to forget all kinds of shit, and like I say, mods and admins get in a bad position, since they can't really defend themselves when people are throwing shit around, without talking about someone who's gone...so all's well, no sweat....I read the whole thread, and someone pmed me, out of courtesy, since I dont' have no say so, was just curious...


duck- just read this thread top to bottom. Its pretty clear why tp booted his ass. He snitched on an opiophile (to a sub doc, not the cops)

[TOOL]

Insuffulated 8mg this morning followed by 2 capsules SJW 300mg and the hypercin as stated in OP. Definite buzz proceeded and is still going; albeit kleine, it's still moderate to a small morph like TOOL has stated. This theory and experiment definitely works, I'm confirming this right at this moment. And definite change in pupil size as well.


I am gald you have gotten some possitive effects..... did you catch any nods, I noticed the nods the most they took hold several hours into the experience for me.

[Hammilton]

For the record I've never come close to anything that resembles a trade or sale through this board. Any and all dealings I've ever done have been in the real world. Other than some decorations I have purchased off the internet. Anything I may have said in the past was of course just meant as a joke.

I don't think the sentence you quoted was saying you were doing it on the open board, but rather talking about it in the open.


Anwyay- about 'getting high' on Suboxone, it's definitely possible. Depressants make it possible. First I tried with lorazepam, but that was pretty crappy. Next I tried with 40mg of phenobarbital. That was really strong.

almost overpowering.

phenobarb+suboxone is pretty much indistinguishable from morphine. Or it's been so long I forget what morphine feels like. Either way, though, it's a pretty good high.

just dangerous as fuck.

[Inspektahdek]

On that last experiment I did, I felt a morphine like buzz like I mentioned, definitely noticeable and as I did more experiments taking SJW daily for a few days, the buzz was marked increase. So as TOOL has stated having SJW present in your system for a bit helps tremendously.

The buzz is nothing worth writing about it feels as if I took morphine sulphate which I really don't like the buzz of but it was definitely worth purchasing the SJW worth it. I'd like to try more experimenting with it and see what happens with different methods and prolonged use of SJW steadily in my system, but I'm stating oficially that this does work, just not as strong as one would wish. Perhaps someone with a non 3 100mcg day tolerance of fent patching would be able to enjoy it more?

Didn't really notice any nods, I felt drowsy and my vision got a little blurry as suboxstitute had stated, definite, DEFINITE pupil change unlike anything subs ever done for me before, I'm talking about my pupils looking like I was on fent, my boss knows I take strong narcotics and even commented and this is the only time he's commented on my eyes being so pinned! SO, experiment some more everyone, I would like to hear if anyone else is having similar if not better success.


cheers

[TOOL]

On that last experiment I did, I felt a morphine like buzz like I mentioned, definitely noticeable and as I did more experiments taking SJW daily for a few days, the buzz was marked increase. So as TOOL has stated having SJW present in your system for a bit helps tremendously.

The buzz is nothing worth writing about it feels as if I took morphine sulphate which I really don't like the buzz of but it was definitely worth purchasing the SJW worth it. I'd like to try more experimenting with it and see what happens with different methods and prolonged use of SJW steadily in my system, but I'm stating oficially that this does work, just not as strong as one would wish. Perhaps someone with a non 3 100mcg day tolerance of fent patching would be able to enjoy it more?

Didn't really notice any nods, I felt drowsy and my vision got a little blurry as suboxstitute had stated, definite, DEFINITE pupil change unlike anything subs ever done for me before, I'm talking about my pupils looking like I was on fent, my boss knows I take strong narcotics and even commented and this is the only time he's commented on my eyes being so pinned! SO, experiment some more everyone, I would like to hear if anyone else is having similar if not better success.


cheers

Awesome man.... glad to hear this news ..... I would like to see how others do with this as well, I am thinking it may affect others differently. I am also glad as this helps me confirm that I am not crazy LOL J\K...... also it was awesome to talk with you and meet another Tool fan and you art is awesome..... if I ever make it across the pond thats exactly where I would want to trip my ass off ..... Peace

[Inspektahdek]

wow, I made this thread get about 2500 views, that's fucking great! I'm betting it's because alot of people want to have subs become a full DOC for them. Just think if you could take an 8mg tab in the morning and have it clelave the antagonist? I think the main reason this page has been viewed so many times is because everyone wants this to be like methadone, but a constant take home of methadone. A similar methadone that you can take "pieces" and "parts" of one pill and still have it bond stronger to receptors than done'.


IT WORKS, just not as good as an agonist, but it has brought an appreciation of bupe for me. :D

[Inspektahdek]

Awesome man.... glad to hear this news ..... I would like to see how others do with this as well, I am thinking it may affect others differently. I am also glad as this helps me confirm that I am not crazy LOL J\K...... also it was awesome to talk with you and meet another Tool fan and you art is awesome..... if I ever make it across the pond thats exactly where I would want to trip my ass off ..... Peace


sure thing mann, I live in a splendid little flat with a balcony overlooking the city and the river running through the bridge and a castle to the right of my balcony ;)

You know I travel to the states alot too, I have an international job. I live in Germany but I hit up the States every few months and usually every 4-6months, it varies, I travel everywhere.

[TOOL]

sure thing mann, I live in a splendid little flat with a balcony overlooking the city and the river running through the bridge and a castle to the right of my balcony ;)

You know I travel to the states alot too, I have an international job. I live in Germany but I hit up the States every few months and usually every 4-6months, it varies, I travel everywhere.


Awesome man .... I have a long line of German blood in me and I have always wanted to make a huge trip through Europe and it's surroundings, I am a WW II history freak as well. I must say after I saw that movie Hostel it kinda made me wonder how good of an Idea this was..... but hell it's a movie right?... I would love to have a job where I travelled a lot, but unfortunatley I am chained to this desk... But next time you come over here we could plan and Opi field trip to the COSM.... and say whats up to Alex Grey;)

[Inspektahdek]

I have been to MANY MANY MANY hostels all across Europe and the only thing that happened to me was I got laid and ate mushrooms in the Amsterdam hostels with lots of girls. No murder though :D

[Suboxstitute]

Arggh. I just wrote a long report about bupe, this a.m. took a higher dose than usual (I'm on 4-6mg maintenance, I took 16mg) and added 900mg of St Johns Wort ( three 300mg capsules). That was this morning, and it did seem to give me some extra energy.

Then in the afternoon, I took 12 mg of bupe, the SJW, and and added some k-pins.... I am not tolerant to benzos so 4-5mg of clonazepam with the bupe worked pretty well for somewhat of an energetic buzz, nothng like the old days, but it was pretty decent. It was almost like when I could still get some energy from 30-40 mg hydro. I don't like the benzo buzz at all; not my thing. But the COMBO.....got me threw an entirely boring spreadsheet I had to work on all afternoon. We're snowed in so I am working from home.

Then the hubby came up over my shoulder to ask what I was doing ("what board was I on?"), I minimized the reply box and poof it was gone. But that is the gist of it anyway. He is just worried about me is all; he thinks I've come a long way on the bupe, and I have physically but mentally I'm still a junkie.

I'm off to read the board and then will come back to discuss a bit more.

DOWNSIDE I created a MUCH bigger tolerance to bupe just over a period of a week or so, where the 4mg doesn't cut it and I feel sick without more.

SHIT. double shit. More later.

[kil092286]

http://http://www.drugs.com/drug-interactions/buprenorphine_d00840_st-john-s-wort_d04408.html

Just a little info...

I have tryed taking the SJW before and after my dose of bupe.. what have you guys found to work best so far? I don't notice much of a difference, but there is a mild boost in energy and overall well being.

[Opiyum]

I've been trying different combinations of bupe and sjw at different doses and taken at different times and have yet to notice anything....noticeable. I have been a bit more active I guess but that started when I lowered my dose in early january. So I don't know. Once I run out of SJW maybe I'll be able to see a difference but so far nothing really. No pinned eyes....no itchy...no buzz. Maybe a bit of energy but that's it.

[Inspektahdek]

do as if tool has stated and keep taking SJW daily and then try a high dose all at once, I swear and I was previously a bupe hater that it works. albeit not what you would like for it's greatest content but still worthwhile

[chopstix]

sure thing mann, I live in a splendid little flat with a balcony overlooking the city and the river running through the bridge and a castle to the right of my balcony


Mind if I ask what your rent is? Just curious - I live in one of the top 5 most expensive areas in the US and I'm always curious what people with cool pads in cool areas pay..

[SpecialGuy69]

Mind if I ask what your rent is? Just curious - I live in one of the top 5 most expensive areas in the US and I'm always curious what people with cool pads in cool areas pay..
I know you werent askin me, but...
I'm looking for a new place, and I want it to be nice. I work in Northwest DC, about 3 blocks from GWB (for now...). I looked at a place about 4 blocks from my office, in the other direction of the White House, so its about 7 blocks from 1400 Pennsylvania Ave. It's here:

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/5186/whereimatth8.th.pngIf you cant read it, the arrows are to the building and the White House

And the place I like is fuckin $1950/month for a 1 bedroom! But they have EVERYTHING - dry cleaners, convienence store in building (where they will deliver food/smokes/beer to your door!) resturants, conceirege (sp?) and they even have parking- where you pull your car up to the front door, and they take it for you. Before you leave, you just call the front desk, and by the time you get downstairs, your car is waiting out front all warmed up for you!
I'm thinking I'll get the studio for $1400/mo.

Fuck I never thought I'd be paying $18k a year in RENT.

[Frank Zito]

I keeps Subs on hand for those days when I can't get down. Earlier today I bought some SJW and some Sleepinols. I took the SJW (60mgs.) and Diphenhydramine (50mgs.) and chilled for a while playing Wii. I broke off a chunk of an 8, maybe about 3 mgs. I triple filtered and did my thing. It's about 45 mins. later and I am feeling pretty nice. My irises have completely swallowed my pupils and I am feeling pretty damn good.

I have a pretty large tolerance also. I can fire between 200-300 mgs. of M in a shot and be at my sweet spot. All in all, It was worth the 7 bucks I spent on the SJW.

[chopstix]

I know you werent askin me, but...
I'm looking for a new place, and I want it to be nice. I work in Northwest DC, about 3 blocks from GWB (for now...). I looked at a place about 4 blocks from my office, in the other direction of the White House, so its about 7 blocks from 1400 Pennsylvania Ave. It's here:

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/5186/whereimatth8.th.pngIf you cant read it, the arrows are to the building and the White House

And the place I like is fuckin $1950/month for a 1 bedroom! But they have EVERYTHING - dry cleaners, convienence store in building (where they will deliver food/smokes/beer to your door!) resturants, conceirege (sp?) and they even have parking- where you pull your car up to the front door, and they take it for you. Before you leave, you just call the front desk, and by the time you get downstairs, your car is waiting out front all warmed up for you!
I'm thinking I'll get the studio for $1400/mo.

Fuck I never thought I'd be paying $18k a year in RENT.

$2k isn't uncommon for a 1 bd here, especially closer to the city (SF) - fuckin' outrageous though. You seriously couldn't buy into a chicken coupe here for under $400k although it has flattened out in the last 6 mos (GO GW!!). East Tahoe/Reno is sounding better and better everyday but my girl isn't so into the mountain thing.. Personally, I think commuting on a snowmobile would be fun :D

As much as I love the city, I'm just not really digging the $800,000 600' shoebox idea. I've got a friend who owns a three bedroom house and pays over $1000/mo on top of rent from three tenants. $3500 fucking dollars a month for a mortgage and it's in a cracked out ghetto. Another friend makes good money and is probably going to wind up buying in a ghetto in Oakland. I love California..

[Frank Zito]

Small update. I am way higher than I have been in a long time. My pupils are as small as they can get. I had some scary shit happen to me about 45 minutes into it. It was like a mini cotton fever attack. I started shivering extremely violently. My girlfriend was tripping cause She was supposed to go to the bar. It looked like I was seizing all over the place. Then came the fucking headache which was partially caused by my epilepsy like "shivering". The shivers caused my body to be totally flexed/rigid. Then after about 20 minutes I began to barf until the contents of my stomach was totally purged, then I quit vomiting. I sat in front of the toilet for about 5 more minutes before I told my girl to beat it and I hit the couch with my king sized down comforter where I proceded to deeply nod for about a half an hour.

I used Bupe semi-frequently but in very small doses. Maybe .25 - .5 of a gram I.V. at a time. Like I said, I use it to maintain at the smallest dose I need to keep right. I ease into it from a larger dosage to as mini dose as quickly as possible so I can regulate my Bupe tolerance. Lately, I had tapered my bag/morphine/O.C. usage to a maintenance before I hit the Bupe due to certain reasons.

I was as high or just as high as I have ever been the first time I fired a bag. I wasn't full on scared of the possibility of O.D. but I had a little nagging worry. I have had retardedly large tolerances in the past but the intensity of my buzz, which is still banging full force, actually had me sweating a little bit.

The reason I got so wrecked could be due to the fact that I have a fairly small tolerance lately...All in all, fun, except for the weird seizure/shiver/barf attack.

[SpecialGuy69]

spin were you shooting bupe when this happened? if so, sounds like precipitated withdrawls to me.

[Frank Zito]

Yeah, I shot it A/O. I have been on nothing other than seriously low dose Bupe for about the past week. I have had this happen to me before on a few other occasions. It was a turbo charged, condensed bout of cotton fever, at least that is the best description of the episode as I can provide. It has happened on occasions where I shot H, Morphine IR's, and now Bupe.

[allover]

Awesome man .... I have a long line of German blood in me and I have always wanted to make a huge trip through Europe and it's surroundings, I am a WW II history freak as well. I must say after I saw that movie Hostel it kinda made me wonder how good of an Idea this was..... but hell it's a movie right?... I would love to have a job where I travelled a lot, but unfortunatley I am chained to this desk... But next time you come over here we could plan and Opi field trip to the COSM.... and say whats up to Alex Grey;)

I'm not trying to be an asshole, but come on, it's a damn movie!! A really bad one at that. Just go to Europe and have fun. TONS of people stay in hostels all the time and nothing ever happens to them.

Maybe I'm overstating all this as you said yourself, "hell it's a move right?"

Go to Europe and have fun.

Unfortunately I've spent all my money and gotten in debt doing drugs so I don't have the fortune to go to Europe. Do it for me and enjoy!!

[chopstix]

Small update. I am way higher than I have been in a long time. My pupils are as small as they can get. I had some scary shit happen to me about 45 minutes into it. It was like a mini cotton fever attack. I started shivering extremely violently. My girlfriend was tripping cause She was supposed to go to the bar. It looked like I was seizing all over the place. Then came the fucking headache which was partially caused by my epilepsy like "shivering". The shivers caused my body to be totally flexed/rigid. Then after about 20 minutes I began to barf until the contents of my stomach was totally purged, then I quit vomiting. I sat in front of the toilet for about 5 more minutes before I told my girl to beat it and I hit the couch with my king sized down comforter where I proceded to deeply nod for about a half an hour.

I used Bupe semi-frequently but in very small doses. Maybe .25 - .5 of a gram I.V. at a time. Like I said, I use it to maintain at the smallest dose I need to keep right. I ease into it from a larger dosage to as mini dose as quickly as possible so I can regulate my Bupe tolerance. Lately, I had tapered my bag/morphine/O.C. usage to a maintenance before I hit the Bupe due to certain reasons.

I was as high or just as high as I have ever been the first time I fired a bag. I wasn't full on scared of the possibility of O.D. but I had a little nagging worry. I have had retardedly large tolerances in the past but the intensity of my buzz, which is still banging full force, actually had me sweating a little bit.

The reason I got so wrecked could be due to the fact that I have a fairly small tolerance lately...All in all, fun, except for the weird seizure/shiver/barf attack.

Definitely cotton fever. Scary shit, I've been near hospitalization due to shock and my friends not haviing a clue as to why i was SO FUCKED UP. The shivering is horrible, fortunately, for me, it usually passes in a couple hours and I sleep it off but a couple times it has been seriously scary shit.

And WTF .25-.5G - of Bup?? Bup is measured in 8mg doses - as in 500mg == .5G. Are you saying you're doing ~1/2 pill IV?? If you're shooting that shit. lemme know 'cause I've learned quite a bit about it.. Abscesses included.. You really have to be careful about filtering, which (the lack of) is very well what may have caused the fever..

[Frank Zito]

OOps. I meant milligrams Chops. I filtered it twice through an oral syringe before I back loaded it into my rig. It was as clear as it can get. My CF only lasted about 30 mins. thank God.

[SpecialGuy69]

wow ouch man that blows... Glad I've never picked up the pins. Although every time my scripts run low it crosses my mind...

Well if it hasn't happened yet in 4 years of daily use, it aint happening today.

glad your feelin better spinn, hope you get some REAL dope soon.

[chopstix]

OOps. I meant milligrams Chops. I filtered it twice through an oral syringe before I back loaded it into my rig. It was as clear as it can get. My CF only lasted about 30 mins. thank God.

Yeah, that's what you want - crystal clear solution, using cold water helps because the binder is mostly cornstarch and is really not very soluble in water, but it gets gummy quick with heat.. I use a cotton about the size of a pea and wadded up tight, I also let the solution settle for a minute and then filter from outside the sediment . Ever since I got really careful about the prep, the missed shots are tolerated really well, but before I was so careful about filtering, i got two abscesses within a couple weeks - the ONLY abscesses I've ever had in over 15 years of IV use..

The cf could be from bacteria in the oral syringe if it's been used. I was about to use one last night for an alcohol extraction and could tell by the smell of the plunger that it was dank. It's garbage now..

[Frank Zito]

I cleaned all of my tools properly so I must've just caught a bad break.

[Papa Verine]

Small update. I am way higher than I have been in a long time. My pupils are as small as they can get. I had some scary shit happen to me about 45 minutes into it. It was like a mini cotton fever attack. I started shivering extremely violently. My girlfriend was tripping cause She was supposed to go to the bar. It looked like I was seizing all over the place. Then came the fucking headache which was partially caused by my epilepsy like "shivering". The shivers caused my body to be totally flexed/rigid. Then after about 20 minutes I began to barf until the contents of my stomach was totally purged, then I quit vomiting. I sat in front of the toilet for about 5 more minutes before I told my girl to beat it and I hit the couch with my king sized down comforter where I proceded to deeply nod for about a half an hour.

I used Bupe semi-frequently but in very small doses. Maybe .25 - .5 of a gram I.V. at a time. Like I said, I use it to maintain at the smallest dose I need to keep right. I ease into it from a larger dosage to as mini dose as quickly as possible so I can regulate my Bupe tolerance. Lately, I had tapered my bag/morphine/O.C. usage to a maintenance before I hit the Bupe due to certain reasons.

I was as high or just as high as I have ever been the first time I fired a bag. I wasn't full on scared of the possibility of O.D. but I had a little nagging worry. I have had retardedly large tolerances in the past but the intensity of my buzz, which is still banging full force, actually had me sweating a little bit.

The reason I got so wrecked could be due to the fact that I have a fairly small tolerance lately...All in all, fun, except for the weird seizure/shiver/barf attack.

Your description of your seziures sent chills down my spine because I used to get the same exact attacks. I called them seizures because I'll be damned if I didn't "Seize up" real hard. Then, the puking, headache... I don't know why I grew out of mine but I did. I haven't had one in years. Maybe it's because I don't do stimulants anymore.

[Frank Zito]

Upon inspection of my pupils they are still ridiculously pinned although I don't feel high. I don't do stims at all Papa. I think there was some sort of contaminant in my equipment or I didn't filter enough. I ran through all of my ususal procedures. Who knows. That shit sucks though, for sure. Scary.

[Inspektahdek]

I keeps Subs on hand for those days when I can't get down. Earlier today I bought some SJW and some Sleepinols. I took the SJW (60mgs.) and Diphenhydramine (50mgs.) and chilled for a while playing Wii. I broke off a chunk of an 8, maybe about 3 mgs. I triple filtered and did my thing. It's about 45 mins. later and I am feeling pretty nice. My irises have completely swallowed my pupils and I am feeling pretty damn good.

I have a pretty large tolerance also. I can fire between 200-300 mgs. of M in a shot and be at my sweet spot. All in all, It was worth the 7 bucks I spent on the SJW.


ok great and all it worked right? you are rigging your suboxone though not subutex or bupe? please elaborate for me bitte :) thanks

[Inspektahdek]

Upon inspection of my pupils they are still ridiculously pinned although I don't feel high. I don't do stims at all Papa. I think there was some sort of contaminant in my equipment or I didn't filter enough. I ran through all of my ususal procedures. Who knows. That shit sucks though, for sure. Scary.


YES YES~ !!!! Like I said the pupils are more penpoint than a fentanyl high! Yet the high is not of equality right? I do however feel a buzz from the combo it is just not sufficient for my standards. Please let me know how your further experiments go through ought so I can manage this little theory I have placed.


Thank you :chillpill

[Inspektahdek]

Also I think there is a new theory or questionable reason going around that it's the timing of the SJW:

Should it be done prior? Stay in system for long exposed times? Or 1.5 hrs afterwards, we need to start more experiments in these different facades, alright?


I'm currently a junkaholic and now a semi-alko so bupe is my best friend for 2 weeks. AO, you finish your script yet mann?

[Frank Zito]

Yo Dek. I ate some SJW about an hour ago and I'm getting ready to fire down another 2-3 millies of Bupe. I'll let you know what's up in a little bit.

Have you read my prior posts about 7-8 back? Most of the good info is contained there. I use Bupe sparingly so this may account for the initial intensity of the high I caught yesterday.

[Inspektahdek]

Small update. I am way higher than I have been in a long time. My pupils are as small as they can get. I had some scary shit happen to me about 45 minutes into it. It was like a mini cotton fever attack. I started shivering extremely violently. My girlfriend was tripping cause She was supposed to go to the bar. It looked like I was seizing all over the place. Then came the fucking headache which was partially caused by my epilepsy like "shivering". The shivers caused my body to be totally flexed/rigid. Then after about 20 minutes I began to barf until the contents of my stomach was totally purged, then I quit vomiting. I sat in front of the toilet for about 5 more minutes before I told my girl to beat it and I hit the couch with my king sized down comforter where I proceded to deeply nod for about a half an hour.

I used Bupe semi-frequently but in very small doses. Maybe .25 - .5 of a gram I.V. at a time. Like I said, I use it to maintain at the smallest dose I need to keep right. I ease into it from a larger dosage to as mini dose as quickly as possible so I can regulate my Bupe tolerance. Lately, I had tapered my bag/morphine/O.C. usage to a maintenance before I hit the Bupe due to certain reasons.

I was as high or just as high as I have ever been the first time I fired a bag. I wasn't full on scared of the possibility of O.D. but I had a little nagging worry. I have had retardedly large tolerances in the past but the intensity of my buzz, which is still banging full force, actually had me sweating a little bit.

The reason I got so wrecked could be due to the fact that I have a fairly small tolerance lately...All in all, fun, except for the weird seizure/shiver/barf attack.


good info, are you shooting suboxone or subutex?

[Frank Zito]

It was Suboxone.

[rizzo]

It was Suboxone.
i thought if you shot suboxone it makes you sick?do you get a rush?im very interested in this,please elaborate for me!

[Inspektahdek]

are u shooting snort what?

[Inspektahdek]

Mind if I ask what your rent is? Just curious - I live in one of the top 5 most expensive areas in the US and I'm always curious what people with cool pads in cool areas pay..


I'm not living in the US, however I visit it several times a year. You want to know my price in Euros? I share well kind of what you would call a duplex but it's more different. There's a huge wooden door you go straight into a garden-esque area with mail box like PO BOX to the right keep going and theres a tunnel hallway that leads to three rooms, mine is on one side the owner is at the top and someone lives on the other side. And the person that lives one door next to mine (front entrance) we share a balcony and I think one other person the picture of me on the balcony if I were to walk all the way forward there's a little door that slides and you almost have to crawl or crouch into it to get to the balcony with the river underneath.

The Straßes are not paved, they're little blocks hand made from way back years ago and right maybe 15-20 meters up the road is a cigarette machine and bier garten and brau haus. :D Fresh beer 24/7, good food as well! On the holidays they sell gluhwein hot wine all over the place even at the end of my street, hot wine to stay warm because it gets sehr kalt!

[chopstix]

i thought if you shot suboxone it makes you sick?do you get a rush?im very interested in this,please elaborate for me!

No, I've done it a bunch. The naloxone does nothing unless you have dope in your system, in which case, you shouldn't be using bup atm anyway.

No real rush, just (for me), a distinct, very mild opiated feeling that can actually get me nodding with benzos (dangerous! You can't reverse a bup OD!! this IS NOT for the opiate naive and can kill people!!). I recently read that sublingual bioavailability is under %60 and IV is over %98. You *HAVE* to be absolutely vigilant about filtering it, I use VERY tight, VERY large cottons and re-run if it's cloudy, and for me, if I go over 2-3mg, I don't seem to feel it, 1mg seems stronger than 4. Most people, after the experience, would probably consider it a waste, but I think I'm a little more sensitive to really small amounts of opiates, always have been in spite of a large tolerance.

FWIW, I can get pretty close to the same effect insufflating, but it's not quite as consistent.. Absolutely more efficient than SL though..

I'm not living in the US, however I visit it several times a year. You want to know my price in Euros? I share well kind of what you would call a duplex but it's more different. There's a huge wooden door you go straight into a garden-esque area with mail box like PO BOX to the right keep going and theres a tunnel hallway that leads to three rooms, mine is on one side the owner is at the top and someone lives on the other side. And the person that lives one door next to mine (front entrance) we share a balcony and I think one other person the picture of me on the balcony if I were to walk all the way forward there's a little door that slides and you almost have to crawl or crouch into it to get to the balcony with the river underneath.

The Straßes are not paved, they're little blocks hand made from way back years ago and right maybe 15-20 meters up the road is a cigarette machine and bier garten and brau haus. :D Fresh beer 24/7, good food as well! On the holidays they sell gluhwein hot wine all over the place even at the end of my street, hot wine to stay warm because it gets sehr kalt!

Place sounds awesome, yeah, curious about the price in Euros, if you don't mind. I live in a very urban little area but it is a city and the noise is getting to us, right behind some clubs and bars, noisy but stumbling distance home, kick ass coffee 1 block away and close walking distance to anything you could want. We only pay 650 which is seriously half of what anyone else pays here, we got really lucky but the place is a dive..

On the SJW, I'm quite certain that taking the herb at least an hour before would be best, you're looking to boost enzymes before any metabolism of the bup and that's going to be a result of the herb, obviously. Also, I'm not sure this would work on anything other than straight swallowing the bup as it sounds like a first-pass manipulation, don't quote me on this, but I think the reference material suggests that this mechanism applies to swallowed meds and not anything injected, sniffed, or taken sublingual. Basically the same reasons why you don't normally just take bup like a pill.. Interesting though..

[Inspektahdek]

No, I've done it a bunch. The naloxone does nothing unless you have dope in your system, in which case, you shouldn't be using bup atm anyway.

No real rush, just (for me), a distinct, very mild opiated feeling that can actually get me nodding with benzos (dangerous! You can't reverse a bup OD!! this IS NOT for the opiate naive and can kill people!!). I recently read that sublingual bioavailability is under %60 and IV is over %98. You *HAVE* to be absolutely vigilant about filtering it, I use VERY tight, VERY large cottons and re-run if it's cloudy, and for me, if I go over 2-3mg, I don't seem to feel it, 1mg seems stronger than 4. Most people, after the experience, would probably consider it a waste, but I think I'm a little more sensitive to really small amounts of opiates, always have been in spite of a large tolerance.

FWIW, I can get pretty close to the same effect insufflating, but it's not quite as consistent.. Absolutely more efficient than SL though..



Place sounds awesome, yeah, curious about the price in Euros, if you don't mind. I live in a very urban little area but it is a city and the noise is getting to us, right behind some clubs and bars, noisy but stumbling distance home, kick ass coffee 1 block away and close walking distance to anything you could want. We only pay 650 which is seriously half of what anyone else pays here, we got really lucky but the place is a dive..

On the SJW, I'm quite certain that taking the herb at least an hour before would be best, you're looking to boost enzymes before any metabolism of the bup and that's going to be a result of the herb, obviously. Also, I'm not sure this would work on anything other than straight swallowing the bup as it sounds like a first-pass manipulation, don't quote me on this, but I think the reference material suggests that this mechanism applies to swallowed meds and not anything injected, sniffed, or taken sublingual. Basically the same reasons why you don't normally just take bup like a pill.. Interesting though..


Around here, Pforscheim/Forscheim you want to live in my area? Hmm, you're looking around 475€-550€ and my apartment is small. I'll describe it. Once you walk in kitchen small and narrow to the left has all utilities and stove, no microwaving, at the end of the kitchen a bathroom, average sized with a tub. The main entrance has a storage area immediately to the right walk in closet, well barely, haha. Then at entrance area, directly to the right there is a small room where I have the TV, stereo and computer with small couch and cafe table. Linked to this room is a bedroom which has the exit to the balcony area. Good thing I do nothing illegal :D I can see neighbour windows all around me so in the bedroom I have dark blinds, I was really fucked up on german diazepam from which my ex-girlfriend acquired and didn't tell me about I found them and we took a bunch and apparently did alot of crazy things including bedroom madness because there were several complaints including "I HEARD EVERYTHING!" Never want to hear that, especially in deutsche, very intimidating! :D

The area is not too bad, lots of turkish people, used to have a cool smoke shop that sold mushrooms (dried) as incense called "SMILEY BAGS" and you had to sign waiver to agree that you were going to burn them for the smell, hilarious, right? :rolleyes:

[TOOL]

Dek, I want to move over there so fucking bad, it sounds awesome the old streets and all, I bet everything is more relaxed and laid back over there too??? I am deffenitely going to plan a trip maybe this fall I will have to see how finances go.

[Inspektahdek]

Dek, I want to move over there so fucking bad, it sounds awesome the old streets and all, I bet everything is more relaxed and laid back over there too??? I am deffenitely going to plan a trip maybe this fall I will have to see how finances go.


oh most definitely, laid back for sure, my past girlfriend worked in the marketplace and they smoked herb and drink beer all day selling vegetables, and I would come by during lunch and puff and drink with them on the streets just like new york people always walking around, city type but WAYYYY more laid back.

there are statues and old structures and castles everywhere, almost in every city, old churches, clocks from hundreds and hundreds years ago. Remember the US is a very young country, It's like moving from Japan to the US, and the US to EU (well most places) dresden is the only NEO new looking city because the brits carpet bombed and killed 500,000 civilians in WWII. But the Germans did the same thing to the brits.

I like climbing castles when I'm really fucked up and taking a piss out of the highest window. Tons of fun when drinking, etc. :D;)

[TOOL]

Man that is what I would call close to perfect, if I come I am looking you up for a tour guide ;)

[n0yd]

Just wanted to say I've been experimenting with this, and had somewhat of a positive result.

Tonight I took 900mg of the standardized extract (0.3% Hypercin) St. John's Wort, then waited 45min. Then I snorted 16mg of subs while taking 16mg more sublingually. (My daily scripted dose is 2 x 8mg tabs a day)
This was all about a hour and a half ago, I'm now feeling a slight buzz from it. To be more precise, I feel a semi-opiate euphoria and a general mellowness that is actually quite pleasant. I have never experienced anything before from subs, not even when I first started taking them so this has came as a surprise to me. (My daily habit generally hovered around 2 buns a day for the past year or so.)

I'm no chemist, I'm a junky at heart, but I'd have to say there is deffinitely something that is effecting the subs for the better (If you are into catching a buzz).

I'll report back after I experiment a bit more.

[Inspektahdek]

Just wanted to say I've been experimenting with this, and had somewhat of a positive result.

Tonight I took 900mg of the standardized extract (0.3% Hypercin) St. John's Wort, then waited 45min. Then I snorted 16mg of subs while taking 16mg more sublingually. (My daily scripted dose is 2 x 8mg tabs a day)
This was all about a hour and a half ago, I'm now feeling a slight buzz from it. To be more precise, I feel a semi-opiate euphoria and a general mellowness that is actually quite pleasant. I have never experienced anything before from subs, not even when I first started taking them so this has came as a surprise to me. (My daily habit generally hovered around 2 buns a day for the past year or so.)

I'm no chemist, I'm a junky at heart, but I'd have to say there is deffinitely something that is effecting the subs for the better (If you are into catching a buzz).

I'll report back after I experiment a bit more.


that's good shit mann, have u come back to report anything else post feel of it etc.? Why the 32mg? I don't blame you I've done it how are your other trials coming along?

[Inspektahdek]

On the SJW, I'm quite certain that taking the herb at least an hour before would be best, you're looking to boost enzymes before any metabolism of the bup and that's going to be a result of the herb, obviously. Also, I'm not sure this would work on anything other than straight swallowing the bup as it sounds like a first-pass manipulation, don't quote me on this, but I think the reference material suggests that this mechanism applies to swallowed meds and not anything injected, sniffed, or taken sublingual. Basically thepo same reasons why you don't normally just take bup like a pill.. Interesting though..


seems as if, but I suggest typo, u concur?

[Inspektahdek]

im bumping this for someone who was looking for the thread itself, personal favour by request :)


hope you find the info you're looking for, the OP is the most important but then we have trials from people sporadic through the whole thread so good luck enjoy

[Inspektahdek]

But they have EVERYTHING - dry cleaners, convienence store in building (where they will deliver food/smokes/beer to your door!) resturants, conceirege (sp?) and they even have parking- where you pull your car up to the front door, and they take it for you. Before you leave, you just call the front desk, and by the time you get downstairs, your car is waiting out front all warmed up for you!
I'm thinking I'll get the studio for $1400/mo.

Fuck I never thought I'd be paying $18k a year in RENT.

mann AO! Now you're making me homesick of my old place! :) We had wine and beer delivery and I would order by the crate (german beers come in plastic crates than put outside for garbage recycle man) It's like the old days where you have a milkman in the US and you would leave your crate out with old milk bottles and they would refill it, same thing in Germany!! I had delivery in Bremen but I have a brewery now and my old one was even better because it was 50m away from my apartment/flat! Oh and recycling is huge in Germany and in the EU, you MUST have a recycle bin with various different lables, plastiques, alluminum (you know they see tons of fent balls in that one ;) , and metal, etc.

I bet that place is worth it, the beer delivery was 24 hours too because the brewery has people brewing all day in shifts, most breweries in germany do anyhow, so yeah, I'd pay extra money for convenience for sure!

[jonny-5]

ok, i just spent the last 30 minutes reading every post in this thread.

i bought some SJW today, and ima report my results, similar to most.

i have been taking subs for 4 days now, so technically im still wding from heroin. the last couple days ive been taking 4mg sub in the morning, and 4mg at nite, sublingually. this morning at 8am i did 4mg, and i went out and bought the SJW at around 4pm, took 4 mg sublingually of bupe, immediately afterwards taking 600mg of SJW (same potency, .3%, 900mcg/pill). i wasnt concerned with timing, considering the good DJ and his friend said they took the SJW 1.5 hours AFTER the sub, and it worked.

i started to feel a buzz comming on about an hour later, which has gotten stronger since. it has been 45 min since that hour has passed. this morning i was still getting chills from lack of heroin, and now i feel a nice buzz and overall wellbeing, much less craving if any for heroin at all now. nothing really strong, but it is nice. i also report absolutely NO change in pupil size, but otherwise same effects as most of you.

ill keep taking the SJW and bupe over the next couple weeks and report back, if you guys still want, cause i feel a good trial needs to have as many participants as possible. im very glad i stumbled across this thread, and props to the good DJ for putting so much effort into getting this experiment going.

[Thanat0s]

...now is this something that may work repeadedly, er habitually? or more like a once a week or two 'bonus' lift? ive noticed most potentiators lose their effectiveness day in day out use. ive yet to really give this one a go for lack of sjw, but with yer tenative thumbs up, j5, i just may get to it finally. please do keep us up to date good or bad, i will try to do the same...

[jonny-5]

...now is this something that may work repeadedly, er habitually? or more like a once a week or two 'bonus' lift? ive noticed most potentiators lose their effectiveness day in day out use. ive yet to really give this one a go for lack of sjw, but with yer tenative thumbs up, j5, i just may get to it finally. please do keep us up to date good or bad, i will try to do the same...


no way to tell yet, except that inspektadek and tool did it day after day and reported increasing effects, maybe from the build up of sjw in the system? i dont know. all i know is i was hating life this morning, and now i have a definite spring in my step. definitely more of an energetic buzz than a knock you on your ass buzz, but better than bupe alone nonetheless.

[jdub]

Yeah I need to jump in this test as well. I will grab some SJW on payday (Fri.).

[Thanat0s]

no way to tell yet, except that inspektadek and tool did it day after day and reported increasing effects, maybe from the build up of sjw in the system? i dont know. all i know is i was hating life this morning, and now i have a definite spring in my step. definitely more of an energetic buzz than a knock you on your ass buzz, but better than bupe alone nonetheless.

shoot, thats all im looking for outta my daily dosing really is a little lift to set my head right. if effects are CUMULATIVE id be pleased beyond words... just might get me offa this H train... sounds promising, thanks for posting and bumping this again, id nearly forgotten it...

[jopiated]

I might be trying this within the next month, I am suppose to go back on subutex from methadone. I tried going to suboxone the first time and didn't make it. I am actually going to try taking the sjw starting 2 weeks before I go to tex, that might give some differing results, plus, since bupe didn't work for me before maybe this will give some different insight to the experiment!! I will report my results once I get a chance to try it.

[Inspektahdek]

bump by request

[Armegeddon73]

I can't tolerate this guy. Will a mod take some action? He is, without question, preaching the 12 step, god loves you, repent now, jesus bullshit. Just my 2 cents. Peace.
ARM

[jonny-5]

I can't tolerate this guy. Will a mod take some action? He is, without question, preaching the 12 step, god loves you, repent now, jesus bullshit. Just my 2 cents. Peace.
ARM


who the hell are you talking about?

[Indy]

who the hell are you talking about?

dude check out the guy who replied to one of billi's post about linking to images, he asked about shooting a new kind of dilaudid, totally weird. now here, too, totally unrelated to the topic. it's like night of the living mikells.

[jonny-5]

dude check out the guy who replied to one of billi's post about linking to images, he asked about shooting a new kind of dilaudid, totally weird. now here, too, totally unrelated to the topic. it's like night of the living mikells.

this has me totally confused...did he say anything in this thread? am i the one tripping here?

[PantyShot9]

this has me totally confused...did he say anything in this thread? am i the one tripping here?

Yea I don't really understand either.

[lister40]

lol i got prescribed suboxone today.. loool i use every three days (fentanyl)..

[alowishus]

ok, i just spent the last 30 minutes reading every post in this thread.

i bought some SJW today, and ima report my results, similar to most.

i have been taking subs for 4 days now, so technically im still wding from heroin. the last couple days ive been taking 4mg sub in the morning, and 4mg at nite, sublingually. this morning at 8am i did 4mg, and i went out and bought the SJW at around 4pm, took 4 mg sublingually of bupe, immediately afterwards taking 600mg of SJW (same potency, .3%, 900mcg/pill). i wasnt concerned with timing, considering the good DJ and his friend said they took the SJW 1.5 hours AFTER the sub, and it worked.

i started to feel a buzz comming on about an hour later, which has gotten stronger since. it has been 45 min since that hour has passed. this morning i was still getting chills from lack of heroin, and now i feel a nice buzz and overall wellbeing, much less craving if any for heroin at all now. nothing really strong, but it is nice. i also report absolutely NO change in pupil size, but otherwise same effects as most of you.

ill keep taking the SJW and bupe over the next couple weeks and report back, if you guys still want, cause i feel a good trial needs to have as many participants as possible. im very glad i stumbled across this thread, and props to the good DJ for putting so much effort into getting this experiment going.

So how did it work out fer ya, man I just don't want to fucking go back up in dose after getting down to 2-3mg a day.

[DCBA]

NorBUP was a partial agonist at µ- and k-receptors and a full agonist at the http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/math/12pt/normal/delta.gif-receptor, with EC50 values in the nanomolar range, whereas it was a full agonist at ORL1 receptor with low potency, with EC50 values in the micromolar range.
BUP was a partial agonist at the µ- and ORL1 receptors, with EC50 values in the nanomolar range. In addition, BUP demonstrated weak agonism at the k-receptor giving a maximal response of 10% and was inactive at the http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/math/12pt/normal/delta.gif-receptor.
(+)-BUP did not activate µ-, http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/math/12pt/normal/delta.gif-, or k-opioid receptors or the ORL1 receptor. NorBUP is not a full mu agonist, but instead is a full delta agonist. So the added euphoria from the mix of SJW + BUP resulting in more NorBUP is probably because of delta agonism and not mu agonism.. Delta agonism is euphoric and even pinpoint pupils too.

Source: hxxp://jpet.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/full/297/2/688

[oxy kid]

Is there any specific brand of SJW to purchase?

Can it be picked up at CVS? I am about to give this a try.

Man, there are a lot of pages on this topic.

I went and just got the generic CVS St. John's Wort 300mg capsules.

Lately, my usual dose for subs has been around 2-4mg twice a day. I want to give the SJW a shot and see what its about but I can't find the dosage for SJW. I was going to dose 8mg of sub and then ______ of SJW. Any help?

I'm going to go with johnny-5 on this one and take 600mg's of SJW. I'll let you guys know how it goes. I have a spanish final in the morning so I need to be studying...ha.

I wish I could get some of you opiophiles to come down to Mississippi to this little jam music weekend we are having soon. Looking like Citizen Cope, Spin Doctors, and North Mississippi All Stars are playing for any of you jam fans.

It's been about 45 minutes and I having a decent buzz going.

I could toss in 1 or 2mgs of xanax, but I really need to be doing some studying

It not doubt helps.

Its 2 hours past when I dosed and I feel great. I've got a lot of energy, very talkative, even scratching a little like oxy.

It may be all a placebo effect, but I think the SJW really does potentiate the sub. I have another friend as we speak goign to pick up some SJW to try it out.

[Narkotikon]

I guess there's no point in posting this since Mikels has been Opionomo'd, but it sounds like he should mind his own business. I mean, yes, he did a nice thing by referring Opiyum to a better doctor. What Opiyum decided to do with it at that point is his own damned business. Ratting someone out is always bad, but to a doctor? God, what an idiot. It really does sound like this guy was in one too many AA / NA classes. And I don't care what you say, Subs is still a drug. I din't say it was bad. I do believe that you can go to treatment / meetings on Subs / methadone. It's just another form of treatment. But, yeah, to say Subs aren't a drug is fucking insane. I can't stand these self-ritcheous types who hurt others in the guise of "helping" them. No, what Mikels did was help himself by 1.) looking superior to the doctor / kissing their ass / looking out for them; and 2.) to rid himself of his own guilt for referring Opiyum in the first place. I don't care if Opy was going to rob the bitch blind, you don't call and report him for that. That's his own business. Plus, the hypocrisy of it all. I mean, AA I think, at least to me, teaches you to be self-evident. What I mean is, it teaches you to take responsibility. What Mikels did was take Opiyum responsibility into his own hands, thereby forcing him. That's fucking hypocritical, and another reason I don't like NA / AA, because I think a lot of the people there are like that. Yes, you should be honest with yourself, you shouldn't force it down someone's throat.

[lib.sOCialist]

I just read that buprenorphine, and more importantly, norbuprenorphine are strong agonists at the "Nociceptin receptor" which is an opiate receptor i had just recently learned about while
researching the binding propfile of norbuprenorphine, and it seems to regulate instintive and
emotinal behaviors as well as anxiety and depression.
this makes alot of sense to me as ive been experimenting with buprenorphine and accelerating
its metabolisim into norbuprenorphine, i experieance incredible anxiolytic,
and antidepressent effects after an hour of ingesting 600-900mg's St. Johns Wart
extract with my daily 2-4mg dose of buprenorphine in the form of subutex sublingual tablets crushed and insuffulated.



"Several commonly used opioid drugs including etorphine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etorphine) and buprenorphine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buprenorphine) have been demonstrated to bind to nociceptin receptors, but this binding is relatively insignificant compared to their activity at other opioid receptors. More recently a range of selective ligands for ORL-1 have been developed, which show little or no affinity to other opioid receptors and so allow ORL-1 mediated responses to be studied in isolation"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nociceptin_receptor

http://www.biopsychiatry.com/nociceptin-antagonists.html



just thought this was relevant..

[hovadagod]

Why is everyone trying to derail this thread?

if this works, it's kind of the holy grail for opiophiles. I mean....you can take subs every day of the week and still get high whenever you want by adding the St. John's Wort. Pretty amazing if you ask me. I wish others would chime in. There might be side effects or risks associated with this and it is important to get as many trials as possible. Would all these work? I got the list from a methadone thread. All these drugs increase the matabolism of methadone.

Carbamazepin(Tegretol), Used for seizures
Phenytoin(Dilantin), Used for seizures
Neverapine(Virammune), Used to treat HIV
Rifampin, Used to treat TB( Tuberculosis
Ritonavir(Norvir), Less of an effect, Used to treat HIV
St. John's Wort

[30_Units]

chime: the st jw and benadryl and cimetedine are nice, but it's no magic bullet.

Something that also helps islowering your dose to the minimum needed to get by for a week, and then doubling your original dose. with the other things, it works well. Not anything like even oral morph, but hey-it's something

[The_Highwayman]

I tired the St. john's Wort and it didn't do anything for me but I was only taking 300mgs. I gotta go refill my sub script tomorrow and I'll pick up some SJW and take 900mgs and see what happens...

[nodrover]

Actually just about a week ago I picked up a bottle of SJW, and I have been taking 1200mg daily, about one hour before I dose my sub. I do notice a more pronounced "glow", and it does seem to last longer. I know that this is a "good" thing, and since good things don't seem to last long in the world of opi's, I am skeptical how long the potentiation will last.......

[limitless_euphoria]

I can't help but wonder if some of the glow is related to just the properties of SJW itself. I tried various dosages and I did not notice any increase in narcotic-like effect. That's just my $0.02 but believe me, I've tried this multiple times and I've also tried SJW while not on bupe and it seems as though the effects are the same either way. Again, this is simply my experience.

[30_Units]

It's definitely possible, to be scientific about it i'd need to quit bupe and see if it has anything similar to the increased sedation with dose.

I have a question of LE and the highwayman

Are youguys just taking a single dose, or multiple doses for a few days? Because I'm taking it three times a day, and didn't really notice anything until the second or third day. Perhaps a saturation level is needed to speed up metabolization in the liver? I don't know anything about the enzyme mechanics of sjw in the liver-that would def be something to look into.

In any event, since you've bought the bottle, go ahead and try taking it for five days maybe a week. Maybe you'll get some different results. I certainly wasn't impressed when I only took it one time.

[limitless_euphoria]

It's definitely possible, to be scientific about it i'd need to quit bupe and see if it has anything similar to the increased sedation with dose.

I have a question of LE and the highwayman

Are youguys just taking a single dose, or multiple doses for a few days? Because I'm taking it three times a day, and didn't really notice anything until the second or third day. Perhaps a saturation level is needed to speed up metabolization in the liver? I don't know anything about the enzyme mechanics of sjw in the liver-that would def be something to look into.

In any event, since you've bought the bottle, go ahead and try taking it for five days maybe a week. Maybe you'll get some different results. I certainly wasn't impressed when I only took it one time.

I usually dose 8 mg sub and 1 mg k-pin in the morning along with my bipolar meds and it works out great. Then, if I feel the need, I'll do another 4-8 mg in the late afternoon when I'm home from work. I don't do it every single day though. This way, when my back bothers me, if I'm used to 8 mg per day that extra 8 will actually help reduce the feeling by 25-30%. It's no oxy or morphine but I'll take what I can get.

I'm not a CP patient however there are days where my disc degeneration bothers me a lot. Especially when I have to lift heavy loads or pick up my kids. I am, after all, still a Dad and man of the house so certain things are expected of me. Mrs. LE has 3 herniated discs in her back and she seldom complains so I almost feel as though I've got no right. At least my situation is not chronic, knock wood!!!

[30_Units]

Word. That sucks you have to deal with a bad back on something like sub, but it's also cool you get some relief from it.

And I should have been more specific-what was your dosing schedule on the saint john's wort? And was that a one time or multiple dose thing.

Are you stoned? Because I am, and I dunno if this explanantion is as explanatory as is neccesary.

Edit:Godzilla 2000, wtf were they thinking man?

[The_Highwayman]

I usually dose 8 mg sub and 1 mg k-pin in the morning along with my bipolar meds and it works out great. Then, if I feel the need, I'll do another 4-8 mg in the late afternoon when I'm home from work. I don't do it every single day though. This way, when my back bothers me, if I'm used to 8 mg per day that extra 8 will actually help reduce the feeling by 25-30%. It's no oxy or morphine but I'll take what I can get.

I'm not a CP patient however there are days where my disc degeneration bothers me a lot. Especially when I have to lift heavy loads or pick up my kids. I am, after all, still a Dad and man of the house so certain things are expected of me. Mrs. LE has 3 herniated discs in her back and she seldom complains so I almost feel as though I've got no right. At least my situation is not chronic, knock wood!!!

I feel for you man, I got DDD also and had a surgery in my past and I wake up with serious pain every day and am on subs, so I know I won't be able to get any relief from meds...

Today I am going to get my sub script and will get some SJW, I will post tomorrow on this thread as to what I tool,. how I took it and the effects...most likely I will go with 900mg of SJW then one hour later 4mg of sub snorted..I will report back...

[nodrover]

Guys seriously check this link out. I was just messin around on Google, and found this ignorant, dumber than dirt thread? What are they thinking? If SJW put them into withdrawal while on suboxone, they must not be human(?) Huh?
http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=21888&st=0&p=238302&#entry238302

[30_Units]

*chuckles* here we are trying like hell to get this stuff into us faster, and these guys are acting like it's some kind of supernarcan. Life's funny.

[nodrover]

*chuckles* here we are trying like hell to get this stuff into us faster, and these guys are acting like it's some kind of supernarcan. Life's funny.
Dude........tell me about it. I just don't understand!!??? We are here on this forum discussing how it compliments the effects of buprenorphine in a good way, and they are saying it's the worst-it kicks them into withdrawals!!. I know that as human beings, we each have our own individual chemical makeup: But the way they are talking about SJW and bupe makes me wonder if they are even human! Can individual body chemistry vary that much?? Is the chemical makeup of SJW even CAPABLE of precipitating withdrawal? Maybe we can get some input on this matter from Resorcinol, Opiophile's resident chemist?

[Poppylvr]

Granny Nurse needs to insert a word of caution here.
Anyone who is taking any medicine for depression or bipolar disorder needs to be very careful in adding St John's Wort to their suboxone. Check out this succinct reference on Serotonin Syndrome:
www.google.com/health/ref/serotonin+syndrome
Adding SJW to any of the newer antidepressants can lead to these miserable symptoms. Mostly you would just be uncomfortable, but the reactions can sometime be very dangerous.
I also read in my research the possibility of SJW triggering mania in persons with bipolar disorder.
Be careful, my opi friends.

[More Feen]

Just stop trying to push AA on everybody around here man. If we want it, we know where to get it. .


Why is everyone so pissed off about someone trying to give away acetic anhydride?

I thought this stuff was difficult to come by and lots of people are dying to get their hands on some, and this guy's trying to push it, why complain? Unless its against O-file rules, then i would understand.

Unless AA is refering to Alc. Anon., then I would understand.

Nevermind,

M F

[nodrover]

Granny Nurse needs to insert a word of caution here.
Anyone who is taking any medicine for depression or bipolar disorder needs to be very careful in adding St John's Wort to their suboxone. Check out this succinct reference on Serotonin Syndrome:
www.google.com/health/ref/serotonin+syndrome (http://www.google.com/health/ref/serotonin+syndrome)
Adding SJW to any of the newer antidepressants can lead to these miserable symptoms. Mostly you would just be uncomfortable, but the reactions can sometime be very dangerous.
I also read in my research the possibility of SJW triggering mania in persons with bipolar disorder.
Be careful, my opi friends.
Thanks for the info G-Nurse.....I can definitely relate to SJW triggering mania in people with bipolar disorder. As some of you know (I posted it in one thread I think), my mother suffers from severe manic depression (bipolar disorder). When I was younger, around elementary school/middle school she "go on vacation" (what my father told me) to the psych ward of a local hospital. She would all of a sudden just come down with severe mania, running around the house talking nonsense and acting very, very weird. I was young, and I didn't know what to make of it, other than the fact that Mom got really angry and emotional at times.

Fast forward years later, I was having dinner at my fathers house. I asked him about the times that my mother was hospitalized, like what caused it, why did she act like that. He explained to me the whole bipolar thing (before we had this talk, I didn't know exactly what was wrong with her) and how it effects people. He then described each hospitalization to me in detail, and included the events leading up to them. A few days before one of these trips to the psych ward, a bottle of "Saint John's Wort" went missing from the vitamin cabinent. My father is very health consious, and kept a lot of supplements around at this time.

My dad suspects that she took one or two pills, and then for some wierd reason, she took the whole bottle. After that, she had a total manic episode, which included walking up and down random streets in our town (which is VERY small) and yelling obscenities, and eventually stripping down to bra and panties. I know I just went kind of off topic with this digression, but I thought that this story might be helpful to those of you who are bipolar/or know someone who is. SJW and Manic Depression do not mix well guys!!!!

[The_Highwayman]

I feel for you man, I got DDD also and had a surgery in my past and I wake up with serious pain every day and am on subs, so I know I won't be able to get any relief from meds...

Today I am going to get my sub script and will get some SJW, I will post tomorrow on this thread as to what I tool,. how I took it and the effects...most likely I will go with 900mg of SJW then one hour later 4mg of sub snorted..I will report back...

Today I took 900mgs of SJW and waited one houe then snorted 4mg of bupe and it really didn't change anything..however I snorted another 2mg about 7 hours later and that gave me a bit of a glow..tomorrow I will up the dosage of SJW and bupe from the inital 4mg to 6mg

I'm going to try the SJW for a few more days, hell until the bottle is empty and see what happens to decide if I want to buy another one...

I have biploar disorder, and had been on a myriad of medications in my day, in fact I was orginally dignosed with MDD and my doctor found I had bipolar disorder when I first went on SSRI's (effexor) and after about a week of the medication it swung me into a manic episode...

[Ozzy]

i've seen this before. the norbupe is actually a full aganist at one of the opiate receptors. I beliece the nor1 or something. unfortunately bupe actually antagonizes its effects there though.