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Code1
02-08-2006, 11:56 AM
I've been wondering for a while if anything is proven to lower opioid/opiate tolerances other than plain old time. Are there any drugs or dieting techniques that can do this? Since i began experimenting three or four years ago ive found that tolerance comes fast and stays long and it begins to get quite expensive after a while.

jab
02-08-2006, 12:06 PM
Other than time, and lots of it, I'm not aware of anything that will help bring down tollerance. Tis unfortunate, for sure.

hovadagod
02-08-2006, 12:25 PM
Naltrexone but it doesn't really work unless you know the chestry. Like if you take .002mg of it, I think maybe it blocks only some of your receptors and you will get more high. Other than antagonists, which you should not try using without someone experienced, nothing.

Anybody hear of the use of antagonists to decrease tolerance? Or help WDs?

sidman
02-08-2006, 02:54 PM
Well,just like the other fellow "opiophiles",I know no other way to lower ones tolerance to opiates but THERE ARE WAYS(YEAH!!!) TO INCREASE THE EFFECTS OF THE OPIATES!! They are called "potentiator's" and most of them are simply different types of otc's/prescriptions that naturally increase the effects!!some of them are:
The herbs-Morinda Citrifolia, Ashwaghanda, Bacopa, and Grapefruit juice!!
The drugs-Hydroxyzine(produces a rough "doubling" of opiate effects but it also increases the side effect of "dry mouth"
Proglumide-this provides both the enhanced effectiveness AND the prevention/reversal of tolerance through the use of 200-250mg's(this only works for a limited time though,because the body builds a tolerance to the Proglumide!)
Benedryl
Immodium AD
DXM
Dramamine
Phenergan
Doxylamine succinate
Benzodiazepine's(BE VERY CARE SO YOU DON'T OVERDOSE!!)
Alchohal(AGAIN...BE VERY CAREFUL SO YOU DON'T OVERDOSE!!)
Naloxone/Naltrexone- In order for this to work,very miniscule amounts are to be taken,or else you will end up blocking your receptor sites instead of stimulating them,which is what you are after!! Less than 0.001% of a dose of Naloxone/Naltrexone should do it.
Ketamine-in small,oral doses,it greatly reduces the development of tolerance by blockade of the NMDA receptors.
Well,there you go!! I hope I was of some help!!

JimmyJoe
02-08-2006, 07:48 PM
I've been wondering for a while if anything is proven to lower opioid/opiate tolerances other than plain old time. Are there any drugs or dieting techniques that can do this? Since i began experimenting three or four years ago ive found that tolerance comes fast and stays long and it begins to get quite expensive after a while.

There was an article that appeared in Scientific American (I think) that spoke about how the body begins to produce an enzyme that combats the effects of opiates. Scientists have discovered this reaction of the body but I'm not sure if they have come up with drugs that offset it yet. There is supposed to be some chemical out there, I think I saw mentioned it on erowid that will lower your tolerance for a while but I can't remember the name of it at the moment. I'll see if I can find the link to the article. The problem is, I don't think the drug is easy to get anymore for that reason. Of course, if the people fighting the drug war -- supposedly to keep people from hurting themselves -- were really doing it for that reason, they would want this kind of research going on because lower tolerance means less drugs in the body and more safety for the users.

I have a theory, though it is unsubstantiated, that when people have these so-called sudden death od's (excluding the vast majority of cases where they are actually mixing drugs and die from that) that people develop a very high tolerance and when they get into circumstances they are unfamiliar with, their body triggers a release of its own endorphins, combining with the effects of the opiate to produce overdose. I have read that many of these sudden death od's occur when people are in unfamiliar settings and I wonder if that doesn't sometimes trigger a release of the body's own endorphins, thereby potentiating the effects of the opiates to cause od. Probably this wouldn't happen if people didn't develop a tolerance, needing to take an amount of H or whatever that would kill a nonuser on the spot. If the drug warriors cared about saving people, they'd be pushing for research to for drugs to lower tolerance to opiates, harm reduction, random testing of street drugs for impurities and other things. Of course, that's only wishful thinking.

JimmyJoe
02-08-2006, 08:00 PM
Here's the article that talks about the body producing a chemical that offsets the good effects of opiates. It was apparently printed in the New Scientist and is posted at the erowid site under the Heroin section. If the scientists found a drug that could block the body's production of this chemical they could reverse the tolerance effect to some extent. That is what they should be researching for the benefit of chronic pain patients and drug users instead of orwellian vaccines against drugs and all that other stuff:

Why Cold Turkey is Molecular Murder

New Scientist
November 2, 1996
THE BRAINS of mammals produce a molecule that blocks the action of morphine and other opiate drugs, neurobiologists in Oregon have found. The discovery may be the key to why morphine tolerance develops in patients receiving the drug for pain relief and why heroin addicts suffer withdrawal symptoms. The molecule, known as orphanin FQ or OFQ, is one of four substances produced by the brain that are chemically related to morphine, and known as opioids. The other three, collectively known as endorphins, play roles in blocking pain sensations and in mediating pleasure and reward pathways in the brain. When David Grandy and his colleagues began looking at OFQ, they expected it to be another painkiller. "It turned out it was anything but," says Grandy, a molecular neurobiologist at Oregon Health Sciences University in Portland.
In a paper published in the 25 October issue of Neuroscience (vol 75, p 333), Grandy's team reports that OFQ blocks morphine's painkilling activity. Mice given a shot of morphine usually take several seconds longer than undrugged mice to notice the pain when their tails are dipped into hot water. But after the researchers injected OFQ into the brains of morphine-doped mice, they proved just as quick as untreated mice at pulling out their tails.
In further experiments, Grandy found that mice given opiates over long periods have higher levels of OFQ in their brains. Increased production of OFQ in the presence of morphine may explain why patients taking the drug for pain relief develop a tolerance to it. If so, it might eventually be possible to find drugs that block the OFQ system and thus prevent patients from developing tolerance.
In other experiments, Grandy says he has found that mice injected with large doses of OFQ develop what look like drug withdrawal symptoms---shaking, diarrhoea and squinting eyes. He believes high levels of opiates such as morphine and heroin prompt the brain to pump out more OFQ to offset them. If drugs are then removed, he speculates, the sudden excess of OFQ may produce the symptoms of withdrawal.

Code1
02-09-2006, 01:06 AM
Well,just like the other fellow "opiophiles",I know no other way to lower ones tolerance to opiates but THERE ARE WAYS(YEAH!!!) TO INCREASE THE EFFECTS OF THE OPIATES!! They are called "potentiator's" and most of them are simply different types of otc's/prescriptions that naturally increase the effects!!some of them are:
The herbs-Morinda Citrifolia, Ashwaghanda, Bacopa, and Grapefruit juice!!
The drugs-Hydroxyzine(produces a rough "doubling" of opiate effects but it also increases the side effect of "dry mouth"
Proglumide-this provides both the enhanced effectiveness AND the prevention/reversal of tolerance through the use of 200-250mg's(this only works for a limited time though,because the body builds a tolerance to the Proglumide!)
Benedryl
Immodium AD
DXM
Dramamine
Phenergan
Doxylamine succinate
Benzodiazepine's(BE VERY CARE SO YOU DON'T OVERDOSE!!)
Alchohal(AGAIN...BE VERY CAREFUL SO YOU DON'T OVERDOSE!!)
Naloxone/Naltrexone- In order for this to work,very miniscule amounts are to be taken,or else you will end up blocking your receptor sites instead of stimulating them,which is what you are after!! Less than 0.001% of a dose of Naloxone/Naltrexone should do it.
Ketamine-in small,oral doses,it greatly reduces the development of tolerance by blockade of the NMDA receptors.
Well,there you go!! I hope I was of some help!!
ah yes...ive had http://www.coldwaterworld.com/potentiators.html bookmarked forever! unfortunately it is down ATM but all the content can be found through the google cached search...

http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:S4XSae8TRngJ:www.coldwaterworld.com/potentiators.html+opiate+potentiators&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1
here/\


You're from Mass too! so many Massholes on this forum!!!


BTW...i just had a friend quit H and OC and he's got a script for Naloxone...i may try that out if i can.

hovadagod
02-09-2006, 01:10 AM
Nobody has any feedback on the trace antagonist method of potentialtion? Couldn't that also explain why 10g of oral morphine in tea gets you so fucked while 10mg oral morph wouldn't produce any noticable effects in any of us? I really think there is something to taking a tiny bit of naltrexone; as in .1mg or something smaller than that by diluting it in water. Cover those extra recepters that we've so diligently produced in our brans and we can be back to where we were in our pre-addict days.

I think there's somehting to this. Why does tea work so well? It must have some kind of antagonist or potentiator, or some opiate that we no nothing about in it. Or else the morphine wouldn't do anything b/c there is really so little of it in the pods. We can get high from so little morphine with pods....ya' know?

katomic
02-09-2006, 09:17 AM
I have often thought that tea has an antagonist in it maybe that’s why it last a long time?

I think i can feel the antagonist in my legs sometimes it feels as tho the good feelings are being blocked not very scientific i know.

I have never got much from tea myself and only use it for pain in my hip now along with codeine does anyone know how or where i can get my hands on some Naltrexone in the U.K? my tolerance is get out of hand and my dick of a doc wont increase my meds

jab
02-09-2006, 10:04 AM
Beware though, that Naltrexone can send you into horrible W/Ds if you are addicted or using regularly.

Chipper
09-09-2009, 01:42 PM
Another oldie but a goodie:

1. If you have got this far and if you don't have a significant tolerance to opiates yet and if you aren't physically dependant (a chipper) then try to get hold of an antagonist (which shouldn't be that hard), compare it's half-life to the opi you want to use and take the antagonist WHEN the opi's first half-life period expires.

2. If you really want to be nice to your tolerance, don't re-dose:
- With a very short half-life (Dilaudid/Fentanyl(maybe)) agonist within 2-3 days or
- With a short half-life (Heroin) agonist within 7-10 days or
- With a long half-life (Methadone) agonist within 14 days

It might just work. Do this (mainly 2.) and you won't fuck your life up.

CONSIDERATIONS:

Is it worth all that hassle ?
Will you mess up when life deals you a crappy hand one day ?
Will you be satisfied ?

Well, that's up to you, naturally

WARNING: Low tolerance means high risk of OD. Consider that only 10 mgs of pure Heroin will affect you dramatically so don't use much and don't use alone. Lastly, don't listen to anyone that says "you have to jump right in to this lifestyle" or "either you use or you don't" because they want you to be dependant (it makes them feel better) and "misery loves company".

DISCLAIMER: The re-dose periods are approximate and you should consider impairments to your renal system etc. Read about half-lifes of each drug and of course, 1. is just a theory ...

Enjoy playing with the "friendly tiger" and I hope you really do find your chemical nirvana. Remember, your long-term tolerance to opiates starts with the first dose and never goes back down.

I really wish somebody told me this when I started out ... *sighs*

Paregoric Kid
09-09-2009, 02:44 PM
there is evidence to suggest 5-ht3 antagonists like ondansetron might be able to lower or slow the development of tolerance. there is also info that suggests DXM and other NMDA antagonists, magnesium, proglumide, etc. may slow or lower tolerance.

Morfiend
09-09-2009, 07:59 PM
I have read studies that suggest taking Melatonin at night reduces the length of withdrawal and reverses tolerance.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6SYR-3WXNYVG-W&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1006480236&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=ea46686d9cee63d367b81296ad310add

(same with Phenibut)

Opiyum
09-09-2009, 08:09 PM
I have read studies that suggest taking Melatonin at night reduces the length of withdrawal and reverses tolerance.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6SYR-3WXNYVG-W&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1006480236&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=ea46686d9cee63d367b81296ad310add

(same with Phenibut)

Hmm...That's interesting. I have been taking 4-8mg of melatonin every night for the last 2 years. It's hard to say if it did have this effect because it wasn't something I was aware of so I wasn't looking for a difference.
IF it was working I think I was shooting too much dope and taking too much suboxone for it to have any effect.

Other than that to the OP I know there is a bunch of stuff you can do to slow the development of tolerance but I just don't think there is any pill or drink or method that can simply reverse tolerance. IF there was something that really worked well I would think it would have been discovered. A lot of the stuff that does slow tolerance development is stuff I would not want to fuck with that Antagonists like LDN and whatever else.
If there was anything like this that either reversed or simply stalled tolerance then some pham company would be making a killing right now because tolerance is really the main problem with opiates and why they are the bitch that they are.

Synack
09-14-2009, 09:17 PM
glial cell activation inhibitors will lower tolerance... a current trial drug is AV411 - but an available drug that inhibits glial cell activation is minocycline (http://forum.opiophile.org/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minocycline) - an antibiotic...

Paregoric Kid
09-14-2009, 09:36 PM
also check out Cranial Electrotherapy Stimulation