naltrexone anyone??

[tui]

My dr. wants me to go on naltrexone for a while. Maybe even a year.
Anyone have first... or even second hand experience with this drug?

I'm so sick of the relapse...detox...relapse merry-go-round chaos i'm pretty much prepared to try anything.
grrr

t

[SpecialGuy69]

pill or implant?

If it was as simple as "take this pill, you can't get high" then a lot of people would be down with it. But nalex has a lot of side effects from everything I've heard, and you're messing with some serious brain chemistry (not like you weren't already when on opiates).

Consider subutex as an option if possible- it has similar blocking properties, but seems to have less negative side effects.

If both treatments are an option, try the nalex FIRST, because it would be much either to go from nalextrone==>subutex than the other way around (precip withdrawls and all that).

Plus, if the nalex does work for you, you won't have to worry about that whole chemical dependency thing.

[tui]

^^pill.

Thanks for your suggestion, but bup isn't funded by the New Zealand gvmt. So maintenance-wise, it's 'done or nuffing.
And i effing hate 'done.


t

[robojunkie]

I have never taken naltrexone, but like agent said it would be the pill or nada. Do not let them put that fucking months long release pellet in you! With the pill, at least if you find that it makes you feel like shit, never happy, never enjoy the shit you used to like to do, etc, you can stop. Hell, maybe if you took them long enough maybe you'd get some reverse parallel universe tomorrowland anti-withrawals where you'd get higher and higher for 3 days after stopping...that would rule.

But seriously, what I have heard about that shit (half life is over 24 hours by the way) is that yeah, on 50 mg you can't get off on bag of H, but you could on a bundle, which supposedly approximates 10 point bags, so a gram of street smack. Usually a few tries at this, like when you first go on done, you tire of it as its too much money and the high just ain't all that. That's what I've trex does to dope.

But, opiates aren't the reason nature built opiate receptors, endorphins and enkephalins are. So saturate them with that misery pill, and you seem to get what many many people (alot here I've seen) describe as like not getting any kind of joy or happiness or feeling of being satisfied from any activity/hobby/exercise/sex/etc. that they used to look forward to. I suppose if this would be given as a pill, I'd say try it and if you get this sort of reaction at least you can say fuck this shit. But if you get that depot pellet, and get this reaction, you'll probably wind up with a 6 inch scar on the side of your butt and a fuck load of blood all over the room, in addition to one fucked up smashed white pellet, covered in blood and symbolic of the dark bargain between government and big pharma.

[Raz]

I have two boxes of those pills in my draw and i have never been tempted.Fuck i've never been clean enough.But like Robo says, these pills could have fucked up side effects.And definately pills over the implant.At least you have an option with the pills.
When i used to go to a private clinic in London a girl who i knew had the anesthesia detox and then implant.She was back the next day askin for it to be removed?
And you do have to be clean b4, otherwise an immeidiate cluck with no escape plan....
Best wishes....Raz

[underide]

i didn't even think they offered the pill anymore.
(don't they use it as a treatment for alcoholism?)
Too easy to just stop taking them and go do your business. I imagine you REALLY have to be determined in order for the pill to work for you.

Implants on the other side - our clinic is all too well at pushing them. I heard they make you watch a video now, before you get on the program, the video is all about how well the naltrexone implant is supposedly working. Our clinic is govt funded, so they are definitely not worried about losing business to another 'cure' system.
But as far as i understand, there are not that many takers for that programe over here, and i could understand why.

I knew a guy who had a bad heroin problem, went on the implant, and shortly afterwards got himself an even worse crack problem, presumably because he couldn't get fucked up on heroin anymore (or at least couldn't afford to)
I know that for some people it could just be a 'natural' progression, or rather degression, but now he seems to be in much worse of a state than he was before he went on the implant.

[tui]

Thanks for your answers, but don't worry guys... there's NO WAY i'd get an implant. The pills are only funded for alcoholics in NZ but my clinic said they can swing it- via a few white lies i guess.

From what info i can find online the dysphoria associated with naltrexone doesn't affect everyone.
But PAWS could account for some of those feelings anyway, so it's kinda hard to define what's created by naltrexone vs. natural effects of coming off dope. Dunno. But that's how it seems to me.

t

[kyuss]

Thanks for your answers, but don't worry guys... there's NO WAY i'd get an implant. The pills are only funded for alcoholics in NZ but my clinic said they can swing it- via a few white lies i guess.

From what info i can find online the dysphoria associated with naltrexone doesn't affect everyone.
But PAWS could account for some of those feelings anyway, so it's kinda hard to define what's created by naltrexone vs. natural effects of coming off dope. Dunno. But that's how it seems to me.

t

Good to see you again,
we've been wondering
how you were

[SpecialGuy69]

Slightly O/T:

Idea for a new detox method- Ultra Long Detox (ULD) as opposed to Ultra Rapid Detox (URD)

You know how some docs use low dose nalextrone (LDN) to control tolerance and potentiate opiates?

I've always wondered what would happen if, during an active habit, you took slightly more LDN each day- would your body gradually get used to the doses and you would slowly detox? Like could you sneak it by your body in small enough doses, increasing each day, until you got to the point where you were taking 100mg of nalex a day, and didn't have a habit anymore? And then you could just stop the nalex....

Think it would work?
One of two things would happen-
1- your body would reach a "threshold dose" of nalex at some point and precipitated w/d's would begin then
2- your body would become accustomed to the small doses and only notice the increases, which would be small enough not to cause discomfort.

Also, would the same theory work for a buprenorphine introduction?

[trainwrecker]

DO NOT TAKE THOSE PILLS! Trust me. DON'T TAKE THEM!

[slugbone]

^^pill.

Thanks for your suggestion, but bup isn't funded by the New Zealand gvmt. So maintenance-wise, it's 'done or nuffing.
And i effing hate 'done.


t


i took naltrexone in pill form for alcoholism a few years ago. the doc gave me naltrexone and valium

it worked pretty good but i didn't slip and drink during that time - i had been a daily drinker for about 12 years so it helped but the valium helped too,

[Saint]

I got naltrexone 50 mgs a day about eight years ago when I'd tapered of methadone and still felt like shit after months. But it didn't do anything for me, I felt just as bad... I remember reading that IF you start naltrexone (pill) you should take a LOW dose. I'll try to look it up for you.
Good to see you back by the way.

[Saint]

http://www.gazorpa.com/interview.html (http://www.gazorpa.com/interview.html)

Quote from this interview: ''but at the
high 50 milligram dosage, the dose was too high. It blocks those endorphins''.

This is the link, I don't know if it's true.. but it certainly was for me: 50 mgs naltrexone made me feel miserable..

[tui]

^^
Holy shit Saint, that article is amazing. Thanks for posting it. I don't know anyone who would turn down a 300% boost of endorphins. I'll see if my doctor will just put me on a teeny dose, test it out.

Kyuss, thanks for the hello... i know i haven't been around much, such is the chaos of using!! I've detoxed 4 times in the past year. I'm tired. Reeeeeeallllly hope to stay clean for a while.

t

[Skript]

These naltrexone pills seem like torture.. I couldnt imagine having to take something like that, especially after abusing opiates and what damage has already been done from years of abuse.. How could one ever be happy with that in their system..

Question.. Do these naltrexone pills inhibit the natural flow of opiates and endorphins in your system? Or does it only effect the receptors from the opiates you put in your body? I dont see how one could feel normal on this even if they were opiate naive..

[Levity]

I have never taken naltrexone, but like agent said it would be the pill or nada. Do not let them put that fucking months long release pellet in you! With the pill, at least if you find that it makes you feel like shit, never happy, never enjoy the shit you used to like to do, etc, you can stop. Hell, maybe if you took them long enough maybe you'd get some reverse parallel universe tomorrowland anti-withrawals where you'd get higher and higher for 3 days after stopping...that would rule.

But seriously, what I have heard about that shit (half life is over 24 hours by the way) is that yeah, on 50 mg you can't get off on bag of H, but you could on a bundle, which supposedly approximates 10 point bags, so a gram of street smack. Usually a few tries at this, like when you first go on done, you tire of it as its too much money and the high just ain't all that. That's what I've trex does to dope.

But, opiates aren't the reason nature built opiate receptors, endorphins and enkephalins are. So saturate them with that misery pill, and you seem to get what many many people (alot here I've seen) describe as like not getting any kind of joy or happiness or feeling of being satisfied from any activity/hobby/exercise/sex/etc. that they used to look forward to. I suppose if this would be given as a pill, I'd say try it and if you get this sort of reaction at least you can say fuck this shit. But if you get that depot pellet, and get this reaction, you'll probably wind up with a 6 inch scar on the side of your butt and a fuck load of blood all over the room, in addition to one fucked up smashed white pellet, covered in blood and symbolic of the dark bargain between government and big pharma.

Fuck, that sounds like PAWS in a pill.
I'd rather jump off a damn bridge.

[tui]

^^
yeah on some people naltrexone has that effect. But then some people find it's great.

Generally my body copes well with all meds, I never seem to get any icky side effects- well, except for methadone that is. That drug long term sucksss

t

[Opiyum]

Great thread.

Really interesting article too.

Hope everything works out no matter what you try.

[Saint]

Tui, want to wish you good luck, hope you make it this time. If I ever manage to come off methadone again myself I want to try LDN (Low Dose Naltrexone) too, but never again will I take a high dose. Believe me: it made me feel horrible. Keep us posted about the results (if any).

[mollywopped]

I have taken the pill and the shot and had the implant. I have no complaints, I had no side effects, but I hardly ever do have side effects from drugs.

My only complaint is that the shots and the implant don't last as long as they say it does. They say the shot lasts up to 6 weeks, but for me it lasted more like 3 and 1/2 weeks. I could tell when it ran out because I would have no cravings for 3 and 1/2 weeks and then one day I would wake up fiending. Not really bad, but dope definitely sounded really good. Then I would get my chot a few days later and the cravings were no more for the next 3 and 1/2 weeks. Because of that, I got the shot every month instead of 6 weeks.

But other than that I have no complaints. I didn't feel bad on it or when I got off it. I really couldn't even tell I was on it. And when they give you the implant, it looks pretty bad, but they give you a couple locals and it just feels like a little pressure on you. Usually they put the impant about 3 or 4 inches below your belt line. You get 2 or 3 stitches and it heals in a few weeks. The implant dissolves so it doesn't need to be removed.

[tui]

^^
So good to hear!! For some people naltrexone seems to work like a dream. Are you still clean? If not, how long did you stay clean for?

thanks mollywopped

t

[chopstix]

^^
Holy shit Saint, that article is amazing. Thanks for posting it. I don't know anyone who would turn down a 300% boost of endorphins. I'll see if my doctor will just put me on a teeny dose, test it out.

Kyuss, thanks for the hello... i know i haven't been around much, such is the chaos of using!! I've detoxed 4 times in the past year. I'm tired. Reeeeeeallllly hope to stay clean for a while.

t

If you do this, please keep us posted T.

That interview is amazing. I wasn't aware of the endorphin production in the early am, or the relation between endorphins and cancer. Most of the reason that I continually abuse opiates is chronic insomnia and low level depression. I have a hard time falling asleep, and then once I fall asleep, I wake up. As I type this post, it's 3am and after about 4hrs of sleep brought on by 1mg of xanax, 10mg of Valium, 2mg of bup and a pint of Vodka. More bup, Valium and Vodka and I'll sleep a few more hours..

I've had this problem, to some degree, for years and even after years off opiates, I still sleep like shit and it dramatically affects my ability to function during the day; the only reason I remain employed is that I'm good, and people who know me and work with me just deal with my oddball, flaky schedule..

This article has me interested in LDN as a possible endorphin boost for treating my insomnia.. Great link!

Good luck, Tui, this rollercoaster sucks after the first drop. I'm in the same boat, off the shit but manipulating my bup into agonistic effect for depression and insomnia.. Best wishes..

[tui]

^^
Thanks Chopstix, best of luck to you too. This period is just a waiting game really. Trying to get as many month (or days) behind you as possible. It's pretty depressing. Really hard to keep your eyes on the prize. I'll be thinking of ya-

t

[pharmboy]

Hi Tui good to see ya again. I had a Naltrexone implant after a rapid detox for

Fentynal. It was 6 MONTHS IN HELL. Like Robo said

don't get within 10 kilometers of one of those implants! They not only stop all opiates

you take from binding to opiate receptors they stop the endorphans and enkephlans

your body makes from binding to those receptors too. I thought about cutting the

fucking thing out every day. Thinking back on it, I wish I had.

Good Luck which ever way you decide to go. :jumping-s

[Seedy]

bump - sorry about the grave digging but this thread is pretty relevant to me right now. I'm about to attempt to kick for the first time ever after 6 years daily use. After a 10 day taper on subs (starting monday), I'm gonna be giving this naltrexone stuff a go. I'm shitting myself to be honest (not literally yet). Any other success stories with this stuff to cheer me up?

[Coddfish]

no. you won't find many success stories with this stuff. it stops cravings, but you feel like crap just the same as wds. weird, really.

[rockbottom]

no offence. quit trying so hard . youll quit when your ready. all that stress about quiting really hurts your psyche. sorry no experiense with naltrexone, just methadone. i wouldn't recommend maintinence to anybody. but a 3 week detox is just what the Dr. ordered. it loweres your tolerence to a managable level, and you can get high again in 2 to 3 weeks ~Peace~ and Good Luck --Rockbottom--:cool: remember i support you no matter what you decide to do:sickinbed

[Seedy]

^^ Yeah I've always heard that i'll only ever be able to quit when i'm really ready but right now things are getting out of hand and I have to do something. To be honest i love opiates, they've had many posative effects on my life but it's become an obsession, a ritual that I have no control over and at this stage if I keep going I'm gonna end up fucking up my life.

And I've been reading up on naltrexone and I'm sure as hell not gonna be starting off on a big dose, they'd have to restrain me and force it down my throat. Hopefully that's not how it works!

[Silencer]

New to the forum but I got some experience with the implant as well. I was more or less forced to get on this about a year ago as a condition of being released from jail without paying for bail - experienced 2 months of hell. Never had such bad anxiety and depression as I did with the implant. Also since all my natural endorphins were being blocked I found absolutely no happiness in anything I did from sex to music to exercise.. I tried everything to bring a little joy into my life but nothing seemed to work. I also had a damn hard time sleeping.

Another thing is those things never last as long as their supposed too. My doctor told me it would last me 90+ days. After 60 days I was getting high as hell again.. But be REALLY careful using on this shit. For the first 60 days I would try using about once a week to feel a bit better, doing 3 or 4 bags at a time but never got shit out of them. Then about 60 days in I pushed a bag up my viens and I almost died. Thank God my girlfriend was their and CPR certified to keep me breathing for the next couple hours. Shit.. Its like one day that thing totally dissolved.

On the other hand my little brother took the pill form and he said he didn't have any complaints whatsoever. So I guess its a bit like playing russian roulette. Good Luck!

[Seedy]

^^ Thanks. Everything I've read leads me to believe starting low is the way to go. I'm pretty sure they'll be trying to give me a blocking dose, hopefully the days of 50mg doses are gone. I'll be finding out tomorrow.

edit: and welcome to the site, i just noticed that's your first post.

[matfield]

hey seedy-i took the naloxon pills for about half an year. that was 8 years ago when i really wanted to quit h but relapsed time and again. i did NOT experience an unability to feel joy or positive emotions.
in fact it helped a bit-at least for half an year- to stay more or less away from h.
and a good thing about it was when the cravings were unbearable and i relapsed and did a bag (like 2 or 3 times) i (of course) felt nothing and so i did not carry on using the day after like i ALWAYS do when i am clean and just do one hit. and the fact that you know you wont feel anything often prevented me from doing it in the first place. the long halflife helped as well because things look different the next day.
then again it obviously didn't help in the long run



well maybe that helps a bit. i hope so! wish you all the best