10mg Opana ER's, How to IV prep/dosage equiv to OC

[oxydose]

edit; and yes ive tried TFSE, iit STILL doesnt work right for me


Well seems lady luck shines on me this week, I learned today that I'll soon be receiving 2 10mg Opana ER, Opana ER is Oxymorphone Extended Release if anyone does not know.

Now to my question, can these be prepped to be IV'd, if so how hard is the process? Also how strong is this stuff really, I've read before that its 10x the strength of oxycodone and wikipedia says its 5-6x the stronger than morphine...

So lets say when I shoot oxy that I'd usually start off with a 40mg shot, what should be the equiv dose of the OM?...

I've read also that it has poor oral bio avalbility so I'd REALLY rather have it in the needle, especally for the first time with it...


thanks guys, im out, litterly, noddin hardcore, peace n thjx

-ocd

[SpecialGuy69]

this is what your up against:
http://www.timerx.com/timerx.html

I've only had the instand release opanas. i know the 10mg IR's snorted are about equal to 30mg of oxycodone, but i heard its much higher IV.

If you had a lot of pills, i'd say use the "purifying heroin" procedure, basically an acid/base extraction but with 2 pills, your best bet is to find a solvent that dissolves oxycodone but not whatever is in the timerx shit. Time to do some digging. I heard they are waxy. True?

[roxi*stardust]

http://forum.opiophile.org/showthread.php?t=6839&highlight=opana+injection
Thread about the IRs

http://forum.opiophile.org/showthread.php?t=5303&highlight=opana+injection
About opana in general.

Do a search with these words "opana injection", choose find posts rather then find threads. There are tons

[oxydose]

Ahh the search engine may actually work when i do this from now on, thanks roxi...

still I found nothing signifcant and concrete where someone writes about shooting the Extended Release tabs...

And from the rep they had back in the day when they where called "blues" they sound like some bad mamma jammas IV'd. So if possible I'd love to give it a shot (for real! Lol)...

So ANYBODY with any expirence doing this I'd love to hear from..

I did read where someone said microwaving on move sides for like 30 secs did the job, but under that a *snorter* said that it did not work...

So any pros out their I'd love to hear from, my person is suppose to be moved up to 20mg ERs next month from these 10mg ERs, so I hope they are given some smaller mg version for breakthrough..

How does this sound guys, I know moviebuff wasnt no idiot, but I dont see how this works from my expirence with Oxycontin generics..


moviebuff927
09-26-2006, 07:55 AM

The trick to the "heat up the water, throw in the powder, add another .5cc of room temperature water" is to do it sorta quick. Once that wax has time to expand, the morphine, or in your case the oxymorphone, gets trapped inside and the water is then impossible to get out. The trick is separating the water and the wax for time it takes to draw up through a contin. Everytime I do it this way, the water in the syringe is bitter as fuck and the sludge left behind and the cotton ball are not bitter at all. That's letting me know that I'm getting almost all of the morphine out of my contins. If you add water to the powder, they almost always gel up too fast. If you add the powder to almost boiling water, the morphine dissolves in the water, the wax melts, and if you can throw in that cotton and draw it up quick enough, you'll see the wax left on the bottom of the spoon and all around the cotton ball, but not in it. The reason for adding the room temperature water is to try and get all that wax that you can still see after adding the powder to the middle, so there's none floating around. Then throw that cotton on top of the wax, and draw up. Dude, I'm telling you this works every time with my MS, and I'm sure that if you have a Opana that doesn't have the capsule with the sprinkles in it (like morphine has with Avinza) then this should work with yours. It couldn't hurt to try it on one...

moviebuff927
09-26-2006, 08:22 AM

I forgot to add:

This only works if you do the basic principles of shooting pills, and especially contins. You have to take the coating off, you have to have all the "normal" materials you would need if you were shooting up H, and you have to practice the same techniques.

SWIM has had some of the shittiest of the generic MS Contins: generic Ethex 15mg morphine sulphate controlled-released and yet this same method had me RUSHING from a 15 mg generic MS Contin pill and I have an unbelievably high tolerance! Be careful if you have the 200's, 100's, or even the 60's!

I got tired of having had pills upon pills wasted because the way I read didn't work. So I just used my own common sense and my knowledge of opiates and injecting. I posted a thread the day this site got hacked and I haven't seen it on here since. I thought maybe the pill manufacturers read that way and said "we gotta shut this shit down and never let the shit get out". I'm telling you, just try it.

[oxydose]

Hmm i've came up with nothing :(

Hopefully my person will get some IR version when they are moved up to 20mg ERs next month

[SpecialGuy69]

OK so from what I've read about the timerx system, the time release mechanism breaks down slowly (over a 24 hour period) when in the presence of water. After 24 hours in water, all of the active ingredient has been released from the wax binders.

Xanthan gum and Locust bean gum are layered to create a semi-permeable membrane for the active ingredient to be released through. Unfortunately, its not just a coating, its all the way through the pill.

Ideally, you would soak in a solvent that dissolves xanthan and locust bean gum but not oxymorphone. Then you could simply filter the solution, and the filter cake would contain your active ingredient, minus the time release. The challenge here is to find a solvent that oxymorphone is not soluble in.

So, ask some of the chemists on here what the ideal solvent is. The procedure is simple- say you found out that solvent x fit the profile:

crush pills and soak in solvent x for a period of time. a solid will settle to the bottom of the soltuion. Filter solution through a few coffee filters stacked up, and keep the solid that accumulates in the filter. That would take care of the time release.

Probably the next step would be to dissolve your solid in a small volume of water and filter out the solids. This time you want whats in the water and throw away or eat the solids. This would leave you with reasonably clean product to IV.

You could go a lot farther if you wanted to get super-clean injectable but the above is a lot more than most people bother with before injecting a pill.

[oxydose]

Fucking A nice post AO, thank you.. I'll shoot OxyContiniously and RoboJunkie this post and hopefully they may have some ideas on a solvent that will work, and is still relatively safe (leaving no risedue) and easy to obtain..

I'll keep you guys posted, anyone reading this who has fired down some OM (especally years ago before they where taken off the market and reformulated into Opana), then I'd love to hear your thoughts on the substance... And if its worth the trouble, I'll easily have access to mallindokt Dills at the same time so I could always just use them but I'd just love to try out some of this stuff I've heard about for years & years, ya know?

[pizzaboy]

Oxy, sorry to interupt...but I've seen your avatar before, and I can't place it.

Stephen King maybe? Help me out...

[oxydose]

Oxy, sorry to interupt...but I've seen your avatar before, and I can't place it.

Stephen King maybe? Help me out...

Good eye, its a illustration/cover art by Phil Hale for the 2nd book in The Dark Tower series by yes Stephen King entitled "The Drawing Of The Three". A great read from a excellent series, IMHO that is.


http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/3799/200pxthedrawingofthethryy1.jpg

[robojunkie]

OK, first of all, I have never had Opana-ER w/ TimerX to fuck around with, however I remember looking it up at one point awhile ago, and if I recall it is a "trademarked" combination of non-polar gums (essentially rubbery waxes, as listed above) and a series of "poloxamers", which are where the real battle is. Poloxamers are also what they now put in semi-OTC pseudofed. A poloxamer is a type of Di or Tri block polymer, that is it is a polymer made not of single or double repeating units, but of chains of up to 100 or more of one monomer, then about the same of another, and sometimes another 100 or so of a third, and then back to the first. The point is is that the one thing virtually all poloxamers have is a mix of non-polar chains and polar chains. So when the unsuspecting CWE victim does the usual, they find instead a vast emulsion. Try to basify, screwed as well. Extract, with whatever, now the emulsion is worse. However...

Prior experience with gums and certain poloxamers has shown me they CAN be beaten. I cannot explicitly claim this for exactly timerx but I can't see it being possible to defeat organic chemistry with a silly little polymer. So here we go. Most poloxamers are designed to have one "block" that is hydrophilic to mix in with water, and another that is hydrophobic, to prevent separation of a non-polar layer. It also wouldn't surprise me a bit if Opana includes, like many other hack-resistant pills, some form of a long chain fatty acid. This forms soap upon basification. It goes without saying what a problematic emulsion that would be.

So, in order to defeat this typical mix of poloxamers, ersatz soaps and filler, one (and this one thing I need to double check but I'm almost certain it is good) needs to crush these pills or chop them up as best as possible. If the amount of the gums is high compared to the poloxamers grinding will be useless, so only chopping will help. And the less fine it can be made the longer the soak. So one acquires some everclear, or if possible (but not likely) absolute ethanol. Everclear is 192 proof, absolute ethanol is 200 proof. Then say 10 20 mg opanas are ground/chopped as finely as possible, and not too big a problem if you can't, and then these are soaked in the EtOH for several hours. Assuming oxymorphone HCl is soluble in EtOH, and I imagine it is, this will slowly extract out the dyes, the fatty acids and of course the oxy. Once this is done it is filtered as best as possible, and then then the ethanol is evaporated, leaving behind the aforementioned material. The next step would be to then dissolve the residue in moderately acidic water (around pH 2 or 3 is fine) and once dissolved as much as possible, filtered, and then extracted with hexanes (lighter fluid) until no significant emulsions form. This is to get rid of the fatty acids and any gums that came through. Once complete, in theory there should only be oxymorphone and possibly some dyes. The earlier ethanol step, which may seem pointless, is to leave the poloxamers behind, because the types used in pills are designed to pull together water and shit like hexanes/ether/THF etc, but not ethanol, at least not well.

Now, the de-poloxamered, de-fatty acid-ed, degummed and at somewhat de-dyed oxymorphone acidic solution can now be basified, but carefully, because like morphine it has an acidic phenolic hydrogen. So theoretically if this is basified with ammonia, not hydroxide, it should eventually precipitate out as the base around pH 9. If not, and this may be the case as I'm sure its more soluble than morphine base, one could attempt to extract it at this pH with chloroform or trichloroethanne (the first is better and safer and is available at photography shops, like the professional/artsy ones). It likely is moderately soluble in CHCl3 and after extracting one can then evaporate, calculate as best they can the weight, or if not assume the maximum possible, and then say 100 mgs was the max, calculate about a 1.2 equivalents (molar equivalents) of conc HCl, and dissolve the HCl into 10 times the volume of ethanol. Then add the residue to this, swirl and it should dissolve, as you are now remaking the oxymorphone HCl in ethanolic solution. Then, if one has clean ether (find a good brand of starter fluid, evap some and hopefully find no residue) If ya do, try hexanes. Then add them all together, ethanolic oxy solution and the hopefullly ether. Do it slowly and with stirring. Hopefully Oxy HCl should precipitate out. If not add more ether and if still not add hexanes. If nothing still, evaporate all solvent off and triturate (grind together like you're trying to dissolve) with ether or hexanes but no ethanol. This will work. Then filter, wash and hopefully enjoy a nice white powder. If not I have other possible ways, but I gotta shit and do some work.

Good luck, let me know how it goes...

[RobOC]

Oxy, just wondering if u were as let down by the ending of the Dark Tower series as I was. Fucking awesome all the way up to the very end. I don't want to ruin it for anyone who may be reading it by now but it could of used a lot more imagination I wonder if that had anything to do with the fact that he got sober while writing the series?

[jonny-5]

a way that will for sure work, if you are willing to be patient, is to let the time release do its thing. i.e. put the pill in water, and let it dissolve for the amount of time that the time release is supposed to work, then all of the oxymorphone will be dissolved in the water. since these are the only 2 you are getting, id say its worth it.

[oxydose]

Jesus Christ thanks RoboJunkie, but I feel the measly 2 10mg Opana's I'm going to receive is going to fair well after that, do you agree? But this is great and I believe you should start your own post with it for anyone who has enough pills on hand to gather the supplies and perform this work. Plus I feel it may be out of my range of skill, possibly I could perform it with some reading but w/o proper amounts I'd hate to try. RoboJunkie also if you read above one poster states of reading a lot of warnings about drinking alcohol with this, possibly just the usual "May intensify effects", but maybe it does prove your need for the ethanol bath, maybe it simply "breaks" something, makes me wonder about any similarities between this "ER" matrix and the know recalled Palladone (hydromorphone ER capsules). Also for anyone who may know is the prep of the Hydromorphone ER pills that are still avaliable in Canada and other countries the same as Purdue's Palladone?

Would simply adding the crushed pill to water, letting it sit for 12 hours actually allow the oxymorphone to release while binders stay solidified like johnny-5 states? I know i've heard of ppl doing this to oxy and MScontins (ikes method), further more would it be possible to filter/evap the water then to obtain a IV'able substance... Would any acidic acid needed to be added to raise the PH of the water to match stumich acids? If its possible to "bypass" the ER, even without it leaving a IV usable substance would still be better than nothing. Like I said earlier I'd much rather have this IV'd but need a way within my means and it would also be great if it allowed cutting of the pills to make adjusting the dosage easier.

But again thanks for everyones help, especally to RoboJunkie for smacking us all in the head with some good ole' chemistry knowledge, I should have the pills by Wednesday if not sooner, I'll keep you guys posted on what I thought of them...

thanks again all

-ocd

[RFE]

A very quick post:
In my personal experience, you won't be able to get the ER's to IV. They gel too much and it is very difficult.
The bioavailability intranasal is very good. Just snort them

RFE

[oxydose]

A very quick post:
In my personal experience, you won't be able to get the ER's to IV. They gel too much and it is very difficult.
The bioavailability intranasal is very good. Just snort them

RFE


Speaking from no experience here, as I've never snorted (or even had) Opana in any form before. But I know from personal experience that the gelling generic OxyContins will just gel in your nose if snorted, so it seems to be that the Opana ER's should do the exact same thing, unless I'm missing something then I'd love to be corrected cause I wouldn't mind being able to snort these pills w/e doing any extractions.

NOW TO WHAT I'D REALLY LIKE TO KNOW!!!! If I place one of these pills inside a pill bottle (or w/e) with some water and let it set for 8 or more hours then will that allow the OxyMorphone to release, sort of mimicking it being in the human body, allowing the solution to be drunk w/ all of the OM now being released. *ALSO* if this works then would I need to add some vinegar/citric acid to raise the PH level to simulate the human stomach? Also if this does work then after giving it time to release all of the OM would it be possible to filter, let water evap (thus leaving relatively pure OM), and if this is all possible would this powder thats left be *OK* for snortable/IV use (pretty much just like Ike's cold water MSContin extraction technique).
^^^^So would this work or not, and if it DOES work then after sitting for 8-12 hours and filtering would it then leave a evaporated powder that is bootable/snortable? If it would not work with IN/IV ROA would it at least work to "bypass" the time release thus leaving a drinkable solution with a now NON-ER form of OxyMorphone? Basically would the technique of putting it in water and leaving it in there for 8-12 hours actually work as johnny-5 stated above?^^^^

Thanks again for any and all help that you guys have provided or may provide after this post, I really appriciate it all, thanks again guys, PEACE...


-oCd

[SpecialGuy69]

I'm pretty sure that TEVA uses Timerx in their generic OC 80's (the footballs). So, thats what you can expect in terms of workability. Also, RJ's instructions would work for getting pure oxycodone hcl out of TEVAs, and for getting pseudophed out of the time-released 120/240mg pills!

If you just want to drink IR oxymorphone liquid, that's easy, and your on the right track.

Crush the pills, dont go nuts, just squash em a bit

put some water in your container. You will want to LOWER the pH (acidify) the water with hcl if possible. Hcl is the main component of stomach acid, it is hydrochloric/muratic acid- pool cleaner, used in a million household products, especially heavy duty concrete cleaners and pH adjusters like for a pool or fishtank. You could also use citric (lemon juice) or acetic (vinegar) or sulfuric acids. BUT you want to get the pH really low, like 1.5-2, and dilute, weaker acids will not able to get it this low. Do what you can with it.

You will also want to keep the water temp around 100 degrees F.

Let stand for 12 hours, stirring often.

then drink and you got it.

Don't filter- you will lose a small %, and you don't have to- just drink it down, pill sludge and all. You won't want to drink a liquid with a pH of 2- think about how puke burns coming up, and heartburn- both due to pH2 stomach acid. You can raise the pH back up easily- just add baking soda VERY SLOWLY (so it doesnt fizz over and spill your shit). Just add till the fizzing slows.

Let me know how it goes.

[havok]

A very quick post:
In my personal experience, you won't be able to get the ER's to IV. They gel too much and it is very difficult.
The bioavailability intranasal is very good. Just snort them

RFE

DO NOT SNORT OPANA ER

The intranasal bioavailability of oxymorphone is NOT good at all. It is just as bad, if not worse than oral. In fact, I think snorting an Opana ER is the WORST thing you could do. The pill will just gel up in your nose and only release the oxymorphone very slowly like it would in your stomach. However, there is not enough liquid in your nose to properly absorb the oxymorphone, and all the gel will clog your mucus membranes.

DO NOT snort opana ER unless you extract the oxymorphone first. You are much better off eating one than snorting. The pill will slowly time release the oxymorphone no matter how you ingest it.

Therefore, the best thing to do is to crush the pill and put the powder in a cup of water for 12-24 hours. This way the time release mechanism will release all the oxymorphone into the water (just like it would release in your stomach). Then you can filter the solution, and the liquid you get will be instant release oxymorphone. If you let the water evaporate, the powder you will be left with could then be snorted or IV'ed as it will contain just oxymorphone without the time release mechanism.

[oxydose]

Therefore, the best thing to do is to crush the pill and put the powder in a cup of water for 12-24 hours. This way the time release mechanism will release all the oxymorphone into the water (just like it would release in your stomach). Then you can filter the solution, and the liquid you get will be instant release oxymorphone. If you let the water evaporate, the powder you will be left with could then be snorted or IV'ed as it will contain just oxymorphone without the time release mechanism.


Then why does no one point this out if its that easy... Ok you guys say if I lower the PH with some vinegar and left it to sit for 8-12 hours occasionally stirring while heating it at 100 F, then I should be left with a liquid drink to knock back. But AO say if I were to filter this crude extraction and allowed it to evaporate then would the resulting powder be OK to inject IV? Could lowing the PH of it while extracting add any other crap to the final results that may carry over after evaporating (cause as we all know vinegar isn't to good on the ole' veins. I dunno it seems that this would work after what everyone has said, but at the same time it also seems like someone else would of mentioned it being alright to bang this results after doing this. I think I may see why someone may be hesisetant(sp?) to say yes seeing as most folks have not had the chance to fool around with these yet and may not want to give incorrect or at least untried advice, but throwing all that out of the window, does it seem likely that this would probably work, leaving bootable powder?

Could it be that I am just too hung up on shooting this stuff and am missing some bigger picture? Should I just give up on ever IV'ing these Opana ERs? Also/BTW if someone has a bioaval chart for Oxymorphone (IV, IN, Oral, Plugged) I'd love to see it if they could be bother to post it, I always have trouble finding those charts on google, am I missing some important keyword or something? And finnally as *ALWAYS* I appreciate all the help and replies to my post guys, thanks a million!, oh and sorry for the book (long ass post, I get to rambling when I'm good and high, I've had 36mg of Dilaudid already today, gd tolerence)... peace!


-oCd

[SpecialGuy69]

The poloaxmers (time releasers) will be in between liquid and solid phase- I would imagine that even if you didnt give a shit about your veins or health, the resulting liquid from the time/temp/pH extraction will be almost like a thin gel, will probably clog your filter, and DEFINITELY clog your needle.

The poloaxmers are the problem- picture a big bowl of spaghetti with a few marbles mixed in- the spaghetti is the poloaxmers, and the marbles are the oxymorphone. Thats what your up against. The spaghetti is soluble in both polar and non-polar solvents, making it very difficult to extract- that means instead of separating into two layers, the polar and n/p layers will be blended together (emulsion). You can get the marbles out of the spaghetti, but the spaghetti isn't going anywhere- and you couldnt get it in your veins if you wanted to because it will clog your dart.

There is one way to IV & snort Opana that is a whole lot easier than all this bullshit- just get the fuckin IR version!!! Forget the ER bullshit and get some IR for breakthru. I have had the 10mg IR's, and they sniff fine. 30mg sniffed feels the same as about 90mg of oxycodone sniffed.

If you want to get the best bang (npi) for your buck, do the time/temp/pH extraction, neutralize with bicarb, and plug the results, solids and all.

[oxydose]

If you want to get the best bang (npi) for your buck, do the time/temp/pH extraction, neutralize with bicarb, and plug the results, solids and all.

That sounds good to me, anyone know the rectal bioaval of OM?

Thanks for all the help guys, as soon as they two little bastards get here (which they should of already had done, so i'm guessing they was sent out late or found and confenscated)... What trips me out is that my dad seen like 3-4 cop cars with the k9 at the post office the other day while checking the mail (where I had it sent too since im always in/out of my current place)... But I find it highly unlikely that they found my 2 meesly Opanas, at least I hope not jeez, If i disapear then I guess I was wrong LOL, anyways ill keep this post the updates in this same post when I have the stuff/have done it... peace guys, heres to hoppin the K9 didn't sniff out my 2 pills...

peace

edit; yeah AO I sure wish they were IRs, hopefully my person will recieve them later on as their doc is trying to purposley raise their tolerence (moving them from these 10mg ERs to 20mg ERs next month), so hopefully they'll get some IR Opanas for breakthrough pain...

[SpecialGuy69]

Police drug dogs dont sniff out pills. You aren't gonna get arrested for two stupid pills. Don't worry.

[Synack]

I put my pills in a small cup of water, under a lamp to maintain a bit of heat.

After about 10 hours and a bit of stirring they had disolved. I left this there for a week or so under the lamp. Eventually, the water evapped and I was left with a scraping of powder (that I couldnt get out because the cup was too small (shot glass) - and a gummy substance in chunks.

Dont know if that'll work for you IV.. but I know from that point, if you mix a bit of water - its like you're taking a hit of that drink with the worm... but it's much more gummy.

[oxydose]

To update this thread I'm sorry to say that it just never came through, talk but no walk, eh who knows..

I'll update this again if I do ever get ahold of some...

Thanks again for everyones help..

[subbie newb]

got em. 10 IR and 20 ER. waiting for the bupe to clear so I can get an accurate feel for the intranasal potency. So far I'm getting great feedback from others who sniffed the 10's, they actually prefer em to roxy 30's! WOnder if there's a way to base this drug? Vaporize/ smoke, etc..