Just took a vacation switched back and feel shitty

[kil092286]

Ok I am on 8mgs of bupe a day and I quit for 36 hours and took some methadone (40mgs) I decided since I am already on vacation why not stay longer so I took methadone for 6 days straight averaging 60mgs a day. Now I waited 24 hours to switch back to my bupe and I feel like shit... cold sweats coming and going overall lethargy and aches. It is now day 3 of being back on the bupe and I still feel that way, maybe a little better but not much. How come this didn't happen last time I took a vacation on methadone and switched back to bupe? How much longer will I feel shitty like this? Thanks guys

[mikells43]

cause every switch gets worse and worse. ask someone who does it alot. i kno a few people that get the same reaction. of course u kno that methadone lasts longer than any other opiate so u might have not been sick enough to go back on bupe and might be causing precp w/d but for 3 days i dont kno. but i have noticed watching other people do the vacation thing that each time they do it , the trans is rougher back on bupe. of course u kno ur brain will not think its going to be rough but the brain lies to us.

[kil092286]

cause every switch gets worse and worse. ask someone who does it alot. i kno a few people that get the same reaction. of course u kno that methadone lasts longer than any other opiate so u might have not been sick enough to go back on bupe and might be causing precp w/d but for 3 days i dont kno. but i have noticed watching other people do the vacation thing that each time they do it , the trans is rougher back on bupe. of course u kno ur brain will not think its going to be rough but the brain lies to us.

Thanks man that makes sence kinda but this is only my second time doing it and I have been on bupe for 4-5months. Is it weird that I still feel shitty? I have been taking klonopins to kinda try and sleep through it but now I am sick of sleeping and just f'n depressed!

[roxi*stardust]

cause every switch gets worse and worse. ask someone who does it alot. i kno a few people that get the same reaction. of course u kno that methadone lasts longer than any other opiate so u might have not been sick enough to go back on bupe and might be causing precp w/d but for 3 days i dont kno. but i have noticed watching other people do the vacation thing that each time they do it , the trans is rougher back on bupe. of course u kno ur brain will not think its going to be rough but the brain lies to us.
mikells is right. It gets worse with each switch. I do it every month when I run out of my pain mangement script. It was so bad last month that I said fuck it, this month I took methadone instead.

[SpecialGuy69]

methadone is the worst thing to switch to bupe FROM. DF's detox switched him to oc's for a week to get the done out of his system. Next time pick a different drug with a shorter halflife

And roxi* I feel ya, thats why I take done now. I got so tired of the switch!

[chopstix]

I've been jumping back and forth quite a bit, and I don't find it that hard. Especially if I keep the run within a 72hr dose window OR, even better, is take just a little bup (<2mg and depending on what your system levels are - this could warrant a whole thread in itself) everyday and you can jump back and forth almost painlessly. I suffer a little energy dip when I do the latter but I think it's more psychological than anything else..

Coming off a four day run, without the crumbs, today. Don't feel great but I'm pretty beat up from skiing yesterday and I'm behind on sleep and food, aside from that, I started back on the sub at about the 14hr mark last night (from last hit) and no real problems - MUCH better than full on wd.

I think this stuff is too good to be true. There's gotta be a hidden tax here somewhere.. I know, I know.. 6mos of low level wd..

[mikells43]

i think u are just invincible chop. u have diff chemestry than all of us lol.

[chopstix]

Far from invincible but definitely NOT normal ;)

I don't think I'm alone in this, I remember posts by ZK talking about easily chipping H while using subs during the week. There are a lot of variables to consider and bup is weird shit..

[sexualhealing]

i actully am JUST like chop....

I tend to limit my vacations to 3-day runs or so, ALWAYS planning them so i have that sunday to recover in the quiet darkness of my living room if so needed.....

What i found works best for eliminating blocking effects and the returning withdrawl: if i know i have some dope or oc's coming in ahead of time, ill skip my sub dose that morning. i take 12mg daily btw.

so by the time i am off work and cop, usualy about 7pmish, ill take a few klonopin/xanax on hand on the way to cop, and usualy have to do a 2 bag shot to get a nice big rush like i like.....but it always seems to bust through, at least the rush part....

if i have enough funds/sanity to contiue my vacation, ill usualy try to stop taking subs altogether, but when you wake up mad early and youre connect doesnt, sometimes u are drawn to eating just a lil to get by....so ill take a 2mg-4mg dose in the morning, cop in the afternoon and get high....

by this point im pretty far into my bender and its usualy fri or saturday (i start vacations usualy wed or thurs), and i make sure to have ALL of my shit done by the time i wake up sunday....sometimes i wake up sunday and have to shoot a bag, pass out, and sleep the shit off a lil....

but come aprox 12 hours after that, i start taking my sub in 2mg incriments, sooner if i feel shitty, making sure i dont feel worse as i redose each 30-60min...

the thing is, as long as i have that day set aside to recover, i am FINE. its like the withdrawl is completely killed physicaly, but i am left with a strong needle fixation and desire to shoot up repeatedly...but its all in the head.....

ill usually continue dosing subs/klonopin throughout my recovery day and since i usualy aquire extra pills from not taking my full dose the days prior, there have been times when i have gone well above my 12mg dose, all the way up to 24mg, but just to get the lvls of the bupe back in my system up as i dont even feel skippin a dose til day 3 anyways....

seems to work pretty painlessly for me....every now and then i end up sick as a dog, but its before the sub or anything, and i think its more from doing TOO much dope with the subs semi blocking still in effect making me do MUCH more than i should be, so as the bupe wears off i start to quasi-od and start yaking out all the harm ive caused....




last run was 2 weeks ago, all marks are clearing up, im craving to do it again, but i have tried to make the new years res of putting the money for dope aside everytime im about to cop and taking a nice trip this spring to possibly amsterdam or something.....



i kinda rambled a lil off topic, but bottom line is the vacations actully got EASIER for me once i knew the way MY BODY worked and the way the bupe lingers for 3 days then all the sudden youre sicker than sick.....

now if i was to go on another 2 week fent/dope/oxy binge with NO SUBS taken the entire time, that very well could be much harder than last time i did.....


and i dont even think it makes sense that keeping the small dose of bupe would do more good then harm in the sake of getting high of dope, but its almost like it potentiates if its a >4mg dose for me....

[ZodiacKiller]

Far from invincible but definitely NOT normal ;)

I don't think I'm alone in this, I remember posts by ZK talking about easily chipping H while using subs during the week. There are a lot of variables to consider and bup is weird shit..


Oh, yeah---I definitely played the back and forth game, probably for about a year solid. I wasn't committed to sobriety; wanted my smack-cake and eat it, too.

The thing is, the more you bounce back and forth the longer it takes your body to adjust (meaning it took larger amounts of bupe and at least several days to feel 'normal' again)---and then of course the weekend would be right around the corner so I'd wanna get more dope. Thusly, my tolerance for dope and bupe were absolutely skyrocketing.

It's not good. Now I'm off the dope, working my bupe for all it's worth and hope to be clean soon. I'm down to about 1mg daily, and now it seems to be the hardest part, but I'm determined.

The sooner I'm clean, the sooner I can chip again. Hahahahahaha...........:rolleyes:



ZK

[Inspektahdek]

i actully am JUST like chop....

I tend to limit my vacations to 3-day runs or so, ALWAYS planning them so i have that sunday to recover in the quiet darkness of my living room if so needed.....

What i found works best for eliminating blocking effects and the returning withdrawl: if i know i have some dope or oc's coming in ahead of time, ill skip my sub dose that morning. i take 12mg daily btw.

so by the time i am off work and cop, usualy about 7pmish, ill take a few klonopin/xanax on hand on the way to cop, and usualy have to do a 2 bag shot to get a nice big rush like i like.....but it always seems to bust through, at least the rush part....

if i have enough funds/sanity to contiue my vacation, ill usualy try to stop taking subs altogether, but when you wake up mad early and youre connect doesnt, sometimes u are drawn to eating just a lil to get by....so ill take a 2mg-4mg dose in the morning, cop in the afternoon and get high....

by this point im pretty far into my bender and its usualy fri or saturday (i start vacations usualy wed or thurs), and i make sure to have ALL of my shit done by the time i wake up sunday....sometimes i wake up sunday and have to shoot a bag, pass out, and sleep the shit off a lil....

but come aprox 12 hours after that, i start taking my sub in 2mg incriments, sooner if i feel shitty, making sure i dont feel worse as i redose each 30-60min...

the thing is, as long as i have that day set aside to recover, i am FINE. its like the withdrawl is completely killed physicaly, but i am left with a strong needle fixation and desire to shoot up repeatedly...but its all in the head.....

ill usually continue dosing subs/klonopin throughout my recovery day and since i usualy aquire extra pills from not taking my full dose the days prior, there have been times when i have gone well above my 12mg dose, all the way up to 24mg, but just to get the lvls of the bupe back in my system up as i dont even feel skippin a dose til day 3 anyways....

seems to work pretty painlessly for me....every now and then i end up sick as a dog, but its before the sub or anything, and i think its more from doing TOO much dope with the subs semi blocking still in effect making me do MUCH more than i should be, so as the bupe wears off i start to quasi-od and start yaking out all the harm ive caused....




last run was 2 weeks ago, all marks are clearing up, im craving to do it again, but i have tried to make the new years res of putting the money for dope aside everytime im about to cop and taking a nice trip this spring to possibly amsterdam or something.....



i kinda rambled a lil off topic, but bottom line is the vacations actully got EASIER for me once i knew the way MY BODY worked and the way the bupe lingers for 3 days then all the sudden youre sicker than sick.....

now if i was to go on another 2 week fent/dope/oxy binge with NO SUBS taken the entire time, that very well could be much harder than last time i did.....


and i dont even think it makes sense that keeping the small dose of bupe would do more good then harm in the sake of getting high of dope, but its almost like it potentiates if its a >4mg dose for me....


I agree with 2mg bupe, also I'm suprised you don't shoot bupe like chop since u have a needle fixation ;)

[chopstix]

I agree with 2mg bupe, also I'm suprised you don't shoot bupe like chop since u have a needle fixation ;)

:mad: I really hope this doesn't plant any ideas. I'm really not a proponent of IV sub and I'll say that if you're shooting a milky/cloudy solution, you're asking for trouble.

[sexualhealing]

ive done it a few times and to tell u the truth it didnt seem to give me any rush at all.......this was roughly 2mg shots each time....

ya and i know the dangers of putting the shit into my arm, i do my best to filter all the bad shit obviously and make damn well sure i am in and register and inject nice and slow.... :)

no problems the few times i did it and i really dont see it becoming a habit....

may have to try it again sometimes though as u would think it should make me feel SOMETHING.

[chopstix]

I don't get any "rush" - I just feel mildly opiated within about 10 seconds and 2mg goes a lot farther. It's not a lot different than insufflating, just a little quicker.. I filter the stuff down to sub-micron levels..

[sexualhealing]

kinda bored might have to do it lol

[sexualhealing]

whew did that and got sort of a rush...

was weird though, first min or so it was a kinda bad feeling then it just changed to a nice opiated-ish feeling....better than snortin def.....

another mili of kpin down the hatch :)

[Duckfeet]

Yeah: I remember reading this by you, and it just convinced me that it's like all opiate games we play, in the long run, they just fuck things up. I bounced back and forth between subs and smack, a few times, but what it mostly did, was make me more miserable than before on subs...not *kicking* miserable, but just way to aware of how much better I felt when I had *real* opiates in me, rather than buprenorphene, w/it's convoluted receptor blockers...and after a while, my tolerance just shot so high, where I was banging a gram of smack, and having to look in the mirror to see if my eyes were pinning, which is always a bad sign.

I don't know if I'll switch back to subs again, or not: I too am trying to get off any *daily* dope, if I can, whether it's bupe or mdone, to me, is same dilemma: I want to be able to get on a flight to Nicaragua, and not have to take drugs with me, or to go where I want when I want, so I have to give a good try at getting off methadone, as it--and bupe--have just owned me this last year...but anyway, Im down from 100mg daily to 45mg, and once I get down to 30mg daily, Ill look at subs again...I've got enough subutex stashed for a detox, if I needed, and I might go with that...but I def don't want to go back on it daily....

anyway, always appreciate yer down to earth straight-forward posts...I don't need romance, when it comes to kicking, I want it straight....


Oh, yeah---I definitely played the back and forth game, probably for about a year solid. I wasn't committed to sobriety; wanted my smack-cake and eat it, too.
The thing is, the more you bounce back and forth the longer it takes your body to adjust (meaning it took larger amounts of bupe and at least several days to feel 'normal' again)---and then of course the weekend would be right around the corner so I'd wanna get more dope. Thusly, my tolerance for dope and bupe were absolutely skyrocketing.
It's not good. Now I'm off the dope, working my bupe for all it's worth and hope to be clean soon. I'm down to about 1mg daily, and now it seems to be the hardest part, but I'm determined.
The sooner I'm clean, the sooner I can chip again. Hahahahahaha...........:rolleyes:
ZK

[sexualhealing]

I don't get any "rush" - I just feel mildly opiated within about 10 seconds and 2mg goes a lot farther. It's not a lot different than insufflating, just a little quicker.. I filter the stuff down to sub-micron levels..


so.....i have been trying the sub iv a couple times over the past few days.....whoever mentioned my needle fixation and metioned the shooting PLEASE dont be mad at yourself, i shot these bitches before you said anything and damn sure would have again, it was just a matter of time.


now when i have been doin this, i have been crushing up a quarter pill roughly 2mg worth, using about 30cc's cold water in the rig, mix the solution real well, then filter through a nice size cotton.....

i know i should get a micron filter, but where does one find such a thing??

anywho, the solution has been orange but not cloudy at all, no problems blocking the rig up or anything, and i have done roughly 5-10 shots so far over the past few days....


I know i shouldnt be doing this, but heres my situation.....

My dope connect is back in my life (wondered into my work randomly, had deleted all #'s when i first got on the sub 2 yrs ago), so i have been having some binges with the dope and while its been fun, i know i cant keep doing it, i hate the lifestyle, i hate the shady dealings getting the shit, etc etc.....

so for instance tonight, when i get a call that these bomb ass bags just got in and i can grab a bun dirt cheap, i have to fight soooo hard to not go get it.....so i turn to iv'ing the sub.....


whats your guys honest opinion of this?? am i at least doing the better of two evils and saving myself spending all my money within a week by avoiding getting the dope and just shooting the sub when the cravings get bad..... we're not talking everyday, just the tough ones, ya know.....

and on a side note, for chopstix, are there any certain pointers you would give me about the iv sub from your expierence???


im off to do another 2mg shot....have done 2 earlier today, last one about an hour ago and the other around 6......i will say i def FEEL something as opposed to just the normal energy bump sublingual bupe gives me....

[chopstix]

and on a side note, for chopstix, are there any certain pointers you would give me about the iv sub from your expierence???


Pointers, um, yeah.. DON'T DO IT - I hate the fact that I have enough experience with this to give people "pointers" on this subject, the problem is that there's always someone who doesn't take it seriously enough and/or research it enough and winds up physically fucked up over shit like this. I guess maybe it's "harm reduction" in a way, but I just don't want to be the local IV sub guru.. Not the first time my big mouth has put me in this position.. =/

If you must do it, use more water, the colder the better (theory being that the cornstarch filler is really not very soluble in water and even less so in cold water - I truly believe that the people who have fucked themselves up (and hit the media in Singapore or wherever) were cooking the shit and probably drawing a warm solution through a thin cotton. Don't do that. I use literally both ends of a q-tip; I mix up the solution and let it settle a bit, then use a pre-moistened HUGE cotton on the edge of the pool and draw up with the face of the point flush against the cotton. If you don't know what that means, you shouldn't be doing this. You should wind up with a crystal clear solution, if it's cloudy, run it again.

The theory behind more water applies to anything you IV in that if you miss, the more dilute the solution, the better for your body (assuming it's close to sterile) and the less likely to cause abscess. I usually use about 70 units on 2mg sub and regardless of what I'm using, I rarely use less than 50 units on anything I shoot. In approx 18 years total IV use, I've had two abscesses, both from sub and before I got hyper-anal about filtering the shit. Cornstarch seems an exceptionally bad thing to miss..

Last "pointer" - I really wouldn't even think about doing this on leaky veins, use a gusher or sniff the shit. Don't try it on some little capillary on your knuckle. Not worth it.

At best, you're looking at the peak effects an opiate niave person gets from 1-2 vicodin, for maybe an hour, a little longer if you're eating benzos. I get enough out of it that it will help me sleep or give me a little glow for a bit but it's truly barely worth shooting unless you have really easy veins. Insufflation works pretty well with bup too - if you haven't seen my post on using a nasal spray mister, you might wanna check it out as that ROA works pretty well too..

[sexualhealing]

Pointers, um, yeah.. DON'T DO IT - I hate the fact that I have enough experience with this to give people "pointers" on this subject, the problem is that there's always someone who doesn't take it seriously enough and/or research it enough and winds up physically fucked up over shit like this. I guess maybe it's "harm reduction" in a way, but I just don't want to be the local IV sub guru.. Not the first time my big mouth has put me in this position.. =/

If you must do it, use more water, the colder the better (theory being that the cornstarch filler is really not very soluble in water and even less so in cold water - I truly believe that the people who have fucked themselves up (and hit the media in Singapore or wherever) were cooking the shit and probably drawing a warm solution through a thin cotton. Don't do that. I use literally both ends of a q-tip; I mix up the solution and let it settle a bit, then use a pre-moistened HUGE cotton on the edge of the pool and draw up with the face of the point flush against the cotton. If you don't know what that means, you shouldn't be doing this. You should wind up with a crystal clear solution, if it's cloudy, run it again.

The theory behind more water applies to anything you IV in that if you miss, the more dilute the solution, the better for your body (assuming it's close to sterile) and the less likely to cause abscess. I usually use about 70 units on 2mg sub and regardless of what I'm using, I rarely use less than 50 units on anything I shoot. In approx 18 years total IV use, I've had two abscesses, both from sub and before I got hyper-anal about filtering the shit. Cornstarch seems an exceptionally bad thing to miss..

Last "pointer" - I really wouldn't even think about doing this on leaky veins, use a gusher or sniff the shit. Don't try it on some little capillary on your knuckle. Not worth it.

At best, you're looking at the peak effects an opiate niave person gets from 1-2 vicodin, for maybe an hour, a little longer if you're eating benzos. I get enough out of it that it will help me sleep or give me a little glow for a bit but it's truly barely worth shooting unless you have really easy veins. Insufflation works pretty well with bup too - if you haven't seen my post on using a nasal spray mister, you might wanna check it out as that ROA works pretty well too..



REALLY appreciate the advice chop. I dont think its something i will be getting into often or again even, as you said, the effects are a very minor opiated feeling that is similar to snorting it imo, but for whatever reason, snorting feels "dirty" to me. I cant explain it, but its just like some twisted opiate-type high that isnt always even ejoyable.

Last night as i was posting this, I had iv'ed 2 big shots of some pretty good yay like an idiot because a friend was nice enough to leave me a pile after blowing a few lines, and i thought, "shit lets get the rig out" once he left....

so i was very tweaky and took 2mg klonopin to calm down and it wasnt doing me much....so thats when i went the sub route....and it def helped.

and i understand your technique and is the same ive been using, i really just wanted to see if there were ANY little things i may have missed researching this so thank you very much for putting my mind at ease.

I missed none of the shots and all of them were a clear though orange solution, i def noted a lot of filler/gunk left in the spoon, to the point i wouldnt even pull up all the cc' i put in in the first place...and my arms seem fine today.....i always alcohol before hand and neosporin after, and wash myself up before preping of course....

i think it was a better choice then going out and getting dope last night and i achieved that....so i guess in a way im glad i tried this lil expiriment...

[sexualhealing]

duplicate post

[Inspektahdek]

mikells is right. It gets worse with each switch. I do it every month when I run out of my pain mangement script. It was so bad last month that I said fuck it, this month I took methadone instead.


I just did this same thing, Monday I didn't even show to work I was looking quite pathetic after a 10-100mcg fent patch bend by smoking, and yea, the iso method as well, stretched the script out 7 days to find out I can't get my breakthroughs today to make it to new MRI, fuck it, I can't go to an appointment all hopped up on beer, my back hurts soo much, man this addiction, where's the next fent hit up? hee hee